Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

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catdude
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Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by catdude »

Hi Bogleheads -

I'm planning a train trip for this fall, going from San Francisco to Boston (via Chicago). My current plan is to start the trip with a flight from Central Oregon to SFO, then take BART from the airport to the Oakland City Center station. Apparently there's a Marriott close by that station; I'll spend the night there, then go to the Emeryville Amtrak station (also apparently close by) and catch the train to Chicago.

Please critique my plan as needed. Is there a better way of doing this? I'd fly into Oakland, but there are no direct flights to there from Central Oregon... And BTW how is the neighborhood around that Marriott and BART station? Generally safe?
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by livesoft »

I'm not local, but I've taken BART from airport many times. I guess you are thinking Uber for something right?

Google Maps tells me exactly how close those locations are. Have you used Google Maps before?
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catdude
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by catdude »

Haven't used Google maps before but I will given them a look. Supposedly the Marriott is a 4 minute walk from the BART station...
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increment
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by increment »

That Marriott is a big convention center type of place. You can literally walk across the street to a BART subway entrance.

Before the pandemic, I occasionally stayed there in preparation for taking BART to SFO (and to other places easily reachable by transit). It was fine for that purpose (not necessarily economical, depending on the dates). Some evenings they had a security person at their door to make sure that you had reason to enter. It's an urban downtown. I was not tempted to explore the neighborhood.
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by Dougroseville »

catdude wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:22 pm Haven't used Google maps before but I will given them a look. Supposedly the Marriott is a 4 minute walk from the BART station...
Install the app on your phone. Become familiar with it before you leave - practice changing views (e.g., standard maps to satellite view) and Street View, and getting "Directions". This will be very helpful on your trip at any stop along the way or even for identifying landmarks from the train. "Save" any important ~must see~ places when you plan your trip. Google Maps can be amazingly helpful. Have a great trip!
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catdude
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by catdude »

Dougroseville wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:36 pm
catdude wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:22 pm Haven't used Google maps before but I will given them a look. Supposedly the Marriott is a 4 minute walk from the BART station...
Install the app on your phone. Become familiar with it before you leave - practice changing views (e.g., standard maps to satellite view) and Street View, and getting "Directions". This will be very helpful on your trip at any stop along the way or even for identifying landmarks from the train. "Save" any important ~must see~ places when you plan your trip. Google Maps can be amazingly helpful. Have a great trip!
Will do, thanks!
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SuzBanyan
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by SuzBanyan »

Unless you are wanting to see Downtown Oakland, why not just stay in Downtown San Francisco and start your Amtrak journey in SF at the Amtrak stop (SFC) at 555 Mission. It’s just the equivalent of a bus stop and indeed, it will put you on a bus to the Emeryville station. But it is a “guaranteed” connection, so if something happens that is not your fault, Amtrak says it will provide alternative transport.

As an alternative, you could take Bart to West Oakland and then a bus (or ride service) to Emeryville. There are a number of limited service hotels very close to the Emeryville station such as Hyatt Place and Four Points
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by rob »

catdude wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:41 pm
Dougroseville wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:36 pm
catdude wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:22 pm Haven't used Google maps before but I will given them a look. Supposedly the Marriott is a 4 minute walk from the BART station...
Install the app on your phone. Become familiar with it before you leave - practice changing views (e.g., standard maps to satellite view) and Street View, and getting "Directions". This will be very helpful on your trip at any stop along the way or even for identifying landmarks from the train. "Save" any important ~must see~ places when you plan your trip. Google Maps can be amazingly helpful. Have a great trip!
Will do, thanks!
You can also download the maps... so even without cell/wifi connect it will work with offline map & gps on phone...
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Jazztonight
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by Jazztonight »

You can, indeed, walk from the Marriott in downtown Oakland (I live at Lake Merritt) to the Jack London Square Amtrak Station.

A number of years ago, I walked from my apartment (10-15 min) to the Jack London Amtrak station, and took the Amtrak to Denver, Omaha, and other cities to Chicago. It was a terrific trip, and if you're ready for train travels in the US (and the inevitable delays), you'll have a great time.

There is also an Emeryville station, and the Amtrak makes a connection there. Depending on your Amtrak route, you'll use one or both stations. It is NOT walking distance from downtown Oakland to the Emeryville station, but it's a 10-15 min. drive using a car or Uber or Lyft.

You can definitely take the BART from SFO to downtown Oakland (Marriott is at 12 street station)--it'll take less than an hour (SFO is not in San Francisco, btw; it's south of the city).

please PM me if you need any specific local advice. On my own Amtrak trip, I went on from Chicago to and stopped in Cincinnati and Washington DC, then on to NYC, where I took the subway to Brooklyn and the LIRR to Long Island for my HS reunion. On my return, I took a different route home, also through Chicago, but took the northern route and stopped in Glacier Natl. Park, then to Seattle, and then south back to Oakland. I was on a 30 day train pass and stopped in about 10 cities along the way.

Bon voyage!
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cchrissyy
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by cchrissyy »

your plan is fine
or,
you could stay in a hotel adjacent to SFO and hire Lyft to the train the next day
or,
you could BART from SFO to downtown SF and hire Lyft to the train the next day
or,
you could get a Lyft from the airport to Emeryville and stay in a hotel right by the station

if you want to see downtown oakland, then your original plan is best. there are plenty of restaurants near tehre and yes i would feel safe on that very short walk

if you want to see SF, then stay there

if you want maximum convenience, then i don't see why go to oakland.
because again, there are hotels at SFO and hotels near Emeryville amtrak.

edit to ask, Eugene is not central oregon? i suppose not, but if it was, i do know southwest flies direct OAK-EUG. i did that recently.
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by Duckie »

catdude wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:03 pm I'm planning a train trip for this fall, going from San Francisco to Boston (via Chicago). My current plan is to start the trip with a flight from Central Oregon to SFO, then take BART from the airport to the Oakland City Center station.
That means you take either the yellow Antioch line or the red Richmond line. Both will get you there.
Apparently there's a Marriott close by that station;
The Oakland City Center/12th Street BART station is on Broadway at 12th Street. The exits obviously spread out a bit but there is a BART exit on Broadway at 11th Street right across 11th Street from the Marriott main door, which is just behind the shed labeled "Oakland Convention Center".
I'll spend the night there, then go to the Emeryville Amtrak station (also apparently close by) and catch the train to Chicago.
The Emeryville Amtrak station is about three miles from downtown Oakland. Depending on traffic a taxi ride usually takes about ten minutes.
BTW how is the neighborhood around that Marriott and BART station? Generally safe?
The neighborhood is a little sketchy after business hours. I wouldn't wander around there after dark.
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catdude
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by catdude »

Thanks for the feedback, folks! Keep the comments coming...

cchrissyy wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:23 pm
edit to ask, Eugene is not central oregon? i suppose not, but if it was, i do know southwest flies direct OAK-EUG. i did that recently.
No, I'm in the Bend/Redmond area. To get to Oakland from here you have to connect in Seattle, which is nuts.
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Sandi_k
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by Sandi_k »

I would NOT walk from the Marriott to Jack London Square, as a PP mentioned; that is through some very sketchy areas.

As a woman, I would not leave the Marriott after dark. Downtown Oakland is deserted after dark, and there are long city blocks between open restaurants or bars.

I would instead take a Lyft to Jack London Square, and stay there. The area has had major renovations since Covid, and has a vibrant restaurant and evening scene. Then depart from there in the morning.
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by Hyperborea »

If you're going to Jack London Square, I would recommend going to Yoshi's for a live show. Usually something jazz-ish is playing though they have a range of acts. I've seen everything from jazz legends (many now sadly gone) to Dr. John (also sadly gone) to a giant harmonica blues event to avant garde jazz. Food is good too and if you eat there and have a ticket to the show you get a reserved seat.

If BBQ is more your thing then Everett and Jones is a block away from Yoshi's.
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by mrspock »

If you are on foot and a tourist, stay out of downtown Oakland, period. You are basically begging to have your stuff stolen or worse. Especially if traveling alone.

If taking a train, either depart from SF or better yet... San Jose which is far safer than either SF or Oakland.

If you want a picture perfect SF stay, I'd ditch downtown and stay in the Presidio at one of the hotels there, easily the most beautiful and safest (has its own police force) part of the city, you can walk to the GG Bridge and the Marina if you want a taste of SF neighborhoods. Take a Lyft to the train station from there, or Union Square if you'd like to shop. Stay away from downtown SF, Tenderloin (with the exception of Union Square during the day) and the Mission IMO.

You have to be very street smart these days in SF or Oakland, the crime is pretty brazen these days, and there are tons of mentally ill or addicts all over who can be very unpredictable. When on BART, swallow your pride and listen to your gut... if something seems off, get off at the next stop and switch cars, or trains.
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by talzara »

SuzBanyan wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:03 pm Unless you are wanting to see Downtown Oakland, why not just stay in Downtown San Francisco and start your Amtrak journey in SF at the Amtrak stop (SFC) at 555 Mission. It’s just the equivalent of a bus stop and indeed, it will put you on a bus to the Emeryville station. But it is a “guaranteed” connection, so if something happens that is not your fault, Amtrak says it will provide alternative transport.
Guaranteed just means that Amtrak will find a way to get you to Chicago. If the bus is 10 minutes late, then the train will wait for the bus. If the bridge is closed, then the guarantee could be tomorrow's train. If that train is full, then the guarantee could be a chartered bus from San Francisco to Chicago.

When the journey is the destination, it is not enough to rely on guaranteed connections. It's safer to stay close to the station.
SuzBanyan wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:03 pm As an alternative, you could take Bart to West Oakland and then a bus (or ride service) to Emeryville. There are a number of limited service hotels very close to the Emeryville station such as Hyatt Place and Four Points
Four Points is a full-service hotel. The one in Emeryville has an on-site restaurant, a gym, a pool, a hot tub, and a conference room. Four Points is one step lower on the chain scale than the flagship Marriott brand, but someone who stays in Marriotts should not find it too downscale for one night.

There are five hotels within half a mile of the train station. The Hyatt House is across the tracks from the train station, and the pedestrian overpass is in the parking lot.
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by SuzBanyan »

talzara wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 12:39 pm
SuzBanyan wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:03 pm Unless you are wanting to see Downtown Oakland, why not just stay in Downtown San Francisco and start your Amtrak journey in SF at the Amtrak stop (SFC) at 555 Mission. It’s just the equivalent of a bus stop and indeed, it will put you on a bus to the Emeryville station. But it is a “guaranteed” connection, so if something happens that is not your fault, Amtrak says it will provide alternative transport.
Guaranteed just means that Amtrak will find a way to get you to Chicago. If the bus is 10 minutes late, then the train will wait for the bus. If the bridge is closed, then the guarantee could be tomorrow's train. If that train is full, then the guarantee could be a chartered bus from San Francisco to Chicago.

When the journey is the destination, it is not enough to rely on guaranteed connections. It's safer to stay close to the station.
SuzBanyan wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:03 pm As an alternative, you could take Bart to West Oakland and then a bus (or ride service) to Emeryville. There are a number of limited service hotels very close to the Emeryville station such as Hyatt Place and Four Points
Four Points is a full-service hotel. The one in Emeryville has an on-site restaurant, a gym, a pool, a hot tub, and a conference room. Four Points is one step lower on the chain scale than the flagship Marriott brand, but someone who stays in Marriotts should not find it too downscale for one night.

There are five hotels within half a mile of the train station. The Hyatt House is across the tracks from the train station, and the pedestrian overpass is in the parking lot.
Thanks for adding detail about the nature of Amtrak’s guarantee. I was going to mention my most recent Amtrak experience where I ended up taking an Uber for the last 100 miles with 3 strangers, so that I only arrived 5+ hours late rather than the alternative (we’ll take you back to where you started and let you try to get home again tomorrow!). I would say that most of the time the bus from SF to Emeryville is reliable, but that doesn’t help the OP if the day there is a problem is the day they are trying to leave.

But I agree with you that no connection is better than a connection (another reason I wouldn’t stay at Jack London Square and take the train with a connection in Emeryville). I’ve stayed at the Four Points in Emeryville (although it was a while ago) and is it perfectly fine.
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by stan1 »

I don't know what time the train leave Emeryville, but there are several hotels near the station along with a Trader Joe and the famous/infamous Denny's (has been there a very long time). The Hyatt House shares a parking lot with the Emeryville station (about 150 feet away). I don't see the point of staying in downtown Oakland.
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by Jazztonight »

Sandi_k wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 12:27 am I would NOT walk from the Marriott to Jack London Square, as a PP mentioned; that is through some very sketchy areas.
OMG!! I've lived in Oakland since 1983 and I've been attacked, mugged, shot, and murdered -- never. btw. Neither has anyone I know.
As a woman, I would not leave the Marriott after dark. Downtown Oakland is deserted after dark, and there are long city blocks between open restaurants or bars.
In what large city are you walking alone at night in deserted areas? Are you looking for trouble? How about in America's favorite cities (e.g. NY or San Francisco)?
I would instead take a Lyft to Jack London Square, and stay there. The area has had major renovations since Covid, and has a vibrant restaurant and evening scene. Then depart from there in the morning.
As a downtown Oakland resident who has actually walked from my apartment (in Downtown Oakland) to the Jack London Square Amtrak area many mornings, I was simply confirming the possibilities. If you are afraid to come to Oakland, then stay at home and lock the doors.
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by FunnelCakeBob »

Just stay overnight in a hotel in downtown SF, getting there by BART once you land. Then catch Amtrak bus connection fro downtown SF to Emeryville where the train departs. Emeryville Amtrak station is nowhere close to BART.
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by Wannaretireearly »

Sigh. I’ve had good times in around Oakland.
Right now, I wouldn’t want to stay there, especially if I’ve never been there before. I also include parts of SF into this equation. Sad, as I’ve lived in the Bay Area for 20 plus years.

I hope it improves. I would get to your destination/Emeryville by Uber. If you need to stay overnight, choose well in SF.
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by BogleFan510 »

If you have the time and are in oakland, see what live music might be playing at the Fox Theater or Paramount Theater. A beautiful venue well worth a concert night of fun and walking distance from the hotel (or one short BART stop).

Some cool funky bars around that area as well. I’ve worked for the concert venue many times, parking my car around there and never had a problem.
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by covepatrol »

Do not take BART at night. It’s a mess. Coming back from Mexico we took it to Pleasanton from SFO. We had to transfer downtown.
There were
multiple people smoking weed. That didn’t bother me but being screamed at and threatened (including killing us) did.
I would just get an Uber from SFO if you land at night.
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by Sandi_k »

Jazztonight wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 6:28 pm
As a downtown Oakland resident who has actually walked from my apartment (in Downtown Oakland) to the Jack London Square Amtrak area many mornings, I was simply confirming the possibilities. If you are afraid to come to Oakland, then stay at home and lock the doors.
I lived there for 20+ years. There are some areas that would be OK alone at night; the area around the Marriott is not one, IMO.
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by bikesandbeers »

An Uber from SFO to Oakland could be very expensive.

I don’t think the risk of armed robbery/ assault is high on BART, but if you have a sensitivity to seeing folks doing drugs/on drugs, panhandlers, etc you would be better to avoid it.

Same goes with going out in downtown Oakland, but I wouldn’t carry anything valuable on me and be aware.

There are some good bars closer to the Fox Theatre.
My company used to have an office on Broadway at 11th.

Uber to Emeryville Amtrak is a better choice than shuttles from BART
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by Barsoom »

You have not mentioned (and nobody has asked) how much luggage you plan to carry from the BART station to and from the hotel.

People are right to question your safety in downtown Oakland or San Francisco these days, but if you're hauling two or three suitcases with you on BART and the city streets, it will be that much worse.

-B
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by Sandi_k »

Barsoom wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 1:03 pm
People are right to question your safety in downtown Oakland or San Francisco these days, but if you're hauling two or three suitcases with you on BART and the city streets, it will be that much worse.

-B
Exactly. I assume at least one bag, which would be conspicuous and slow them down if accosted verbally or physically.
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by Kristopher »

OP, is visiting SF a requirement of the trip, or is the requirement to ride the Amtrak Golden Zephyr?
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by VinoVita »

mrspock is right on the money! Heed his warning and take his advise & recommendations.

I’ve lived in the Bay Area for 70 yrs…born and raised in SF. Worked Law Enforcement for 31 yrs. and wouldn’t visit Oakland if you paid me…avoid it like the plague!
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by cchrissyy »

that's harsh!
OP, as a solo female, i go to that area of oakland all the time for dinner, and always see many people happily walking around to the concert venues and bars at night. i have never had any altercation or trauma, and never had my car broken in to, although i did witness it one time recently. I would have no concern whatsoever about the single block or whatever it is between your bart station and the marriot. unless you have a boatload of luggage, laptop, purse, etc. which another poster rightfully asked because it makes some difference.

but to reiterate my advice before, you could stay closer to emeryville station.

and note ot some of our other posters, the next day is not jack london square. it's emeryville.
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

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Thank you all again very much for your responses. This is just the kind of feedback I was looking for! I think I will either spend the night in San Francisco and take the Amtrak shuttle over to Emeryville, or stay at one of the hotels right next to the Emeryville station.

I'm not all that interested is seeing the sights in SF or Oakland; the whole point of the trip is to experience Amtrak's California Zephyr. And I'll be a conspicuous tourist, toting my one piece of carryon luggage.
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Post by westcoastinvestor »

I would stay stay in one of the hotels along the SF waterfront and take the Amtrak shuttle from the Ferry Building. There is more to do within a walking distance/short transit trip. It pays to be cautious regarding your surroundings, but I would not worry too much about violent crime. SF certainly has challenges, but it also has one of the lowest per capita murder rates in the nation for large cities.
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by evelynmanley »

westcoastinvestor wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:11 am I would stay stay in one of the hotels along the SF waterfront and take the Amtrak shuttle from the Ferry Building. There is more to do within a walking distance/short transit trip. It pays to be cautious regarding your surroundings, but I would not worry too much about violent crime. SF certainly has challenges, but it also has one of the lowest per capita murder rates in the nation for large cities.
Those were definitely the good old days. The Ferry Building stop was really convenient and a perfect location, but Amtrak closed the Ferry Building stop in 2017 moved it to Trans Bay Terminal temporarily, then to Salesforce Transit Center.

https://www.sfmta.com/projects/salesfor ... sit-center
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Re: Traveling thru Bay Area - local knowledge needed

Post by evelynmanley »

catdude wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 12:53 am Thank you all again very much for your responses. This is just the kind of feedback I was looking for! I think I will either spend the night in San Francisco and take the Amtrak shuttle over to Emeryville, or stay at one of the hotels right next to the Emeryville station.

I'm not all that interested is seeing the sights in SF or Oakland; the whole point of the trip is to experience Amtrak's California Zephyr. And I'll be a conspicuous tourist, toting my one piece of carryon luggage.
Since you're not sightseeing in SF or Oakland, you will save yourself a lot of time by staying in Emeryville near the station. The bus ride from Salesforce Transit Center to Emeryville is a good half hour or more just in transit, not including the time needed to walk/Lyft to Salesforce and figure things out. The Emeryville station is small and well-organized, with lots of people available to answer questions, and they have a nice food kiosk. It's very, very laid back compared to the Salesforce location.

Personally, I would never take BART at night. No matter the cost, I'd Lyft. And be sure to check that the child locks in the Lyft are not locked. https://www.taxifarefinder.com/newsroom ... rideshare/
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