New or used car in today's market?

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Bikes4life
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

SoFarSoGrand wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:23 pm I also vote for getting a new car. Have you looked at the Highlander? I was recently at the Toyota dealership and they look pretty nice, but cargo room may be an issue. We had three kids under 2 and were able to fit three car seats across in my Ford Fusion at the time using Diono car seats, but we didn't need a lot of cargo space at first. Now we do and we have a Toyota Sienna and GMC Yukon. I like them both but they're not great on gas.
The highlander is a nice suv. Good safety ratings, reliability and the cargo space is similar to an explorer so on the cusp and could possibly make it work.
I would have to revisit, but I believe my previous research found that it is not recommended for car seats installation but it was redesigned in 2020 so would need to make sure about the newer models with the bench.
I like the grand highlander, but it likely won't be available when I need one. It seems similar in size to the traverse. If it were out now, that would be a strong option for me.
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Bikes4life
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

homebuyer6426 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:39 am Buy used. I drive a 99 Suburban. It has 225K miles and they commonly make it past 300K. It's only worth about $3000. They can seat 8-9 people. Yes the gas mileage is about half the typical gas vehicle, but the price to own far outweighs that consideration. Find a vehicle with similar longevity, and buy an older model than most would go for, if you want to get a good deal. If you live in a road salt area, consider buying something from the south and driving it up north, then getting yearly undercoatings.

The most important safety feature is always going to be you: being an alert and attentive driver.
One thing to keep in mind with the south is any previous vehicles that had flood damage. Road salt destroys our vehicles up here.
The suburban would be great if we had one to just use on the weekends and trips, but my wife drives 75% of her miles, about 9500 miles out of the 13,500 per year or so, just back and forth to work where she doesn't need the kids 5 days a week.
A bigger suv than a traverse / pilot etc would seem to be impractical. Even those are overkill for the daily, but I am not about to get 3 vehicles either.
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Bikes4life
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

Watty wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:13 pm
Bikes4life wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 4:49 pm Problem is that it needs to be AWD, so that leaves odyssey and sienna.
If you have not already looked at it you might want to also add the Subaru Ascent and Outback to the list of cars to look at.

A couple of years ago when I was shopping my my Forester I recall that Ascent had some problems that were atypical for Subaru and there were some model years to avoid. You might want to research it extra carefully to see if those problems have been fixed in the current model year.

Out of curiosity I looked to how the Ascent handled three car seats and I found this article about 3 car seats from Consumers Reports.

https://www.consumerreports.org/babies- ... 654045254/

But is behind a paywall. The last time I was car hunting I paid something like $10 to get a months access to the Consumer Reports web site and I found it to be well worthwhile.
I have also been told the same on consumer reports before getting a car. The local library has it, so I may either pay a visit them or $10 is cheap enough.

I think the ascent is also a good option, good safety. Would have to research reliability and car seats. I think middle row is tight and I don't believe it offers 3 latch in the middle for car seats.
I know a friend who has one with 3 kids. He likes it, but says it is tight for cargo room and is considering something larger.
andypanda
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by andypanda »

"One thing to keep in mind with the south is any previous vehicles that had flood damage"

Or any 4WD that was regularly used for surf fishing or was regularly driven on NC's Outer Banks. Or owned by anyone who lived near the ocean or Chesapeake Bay, etc. Heck, heat pumps that are near the ocean may only last for 5 years or so and the makers won't honor the full warranty in many cases even if you buy the harsh environment model. (I was talking to an HVAC company owner the other day about their experiences on the Outer Banks. They have about 25 trucks on the road fwiw.) Salt spray is a bear.
stoptothink
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by stoptothink »

crossbow wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:58 pm OP, what kind of stuff do you lug around in the vehicle that families 15 years ago did not? The size of the average car not too long ago was much smaller than what it is today; most families got by on what would be considered sub-compact sedans by today's standards.

My point - instead of searching for a specific size of vehicle, is it possible to downsize the stuff you intend to carry around? That might give you more options in your search for a vehicle.
This is always the first question in my mind. We have two kids and the biggest of our vehicles is a Ford Maverick (the smallest truck sold in the U.S.). I can't imagine needing more space; went on a weekend camping trip a few weeks ago and could have easily taken twice our equipment. IMO, it's kind of like buying a home with multiple extra bedrooms thinking that someday you'll have a bunch of family coming for an extended stay - meanwhile your stuck with the cost and hassle of dealing with something that is bigger than you need, every single day. I don't get it, but we Americans sure do like our big cars.
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Bikes4life
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

crossbow wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:58 pm OP, what kind of stuff do you lug around in the vehicle that families 15 years ago did not? The size of the average car not too long ago was much smaller than what it is today; most families got by on what would be considered sub-compact sedans by today's standards.

My point - instead of searching for a specific size of vehicle, is it possible to downsize the stuff you intend to carry around? That might give you more options in your search for a vehicle.
I don't think I necessarily have any out of the ordinary needs than most parents. Our 2 row suv with 2 kids is barely enough to get a bike trailer OR a stroller and a few bags. If we were out with the strollers and needed to shop, there is no room for bags. A trip to the beach or the bike path is barely enough room and we aren't even bringing kids bikes yet. I would like room inside to stuff the smaller bikes until they are large enough for the bike rack.

With three kids, I am thinking stroller needs for at least 3 -1/2 more years and that is what takes up the room. So add strollers to the mix of coolers, tent, chairs, kids sports bags / beach bags / bike trailer etc. Not all at once, but a combination of them needs to work. I probably won't have kids sports bags that are potentially large for a number of years with younger kids.

I am not sure what sports my kids will be in as they get older, but I know a few families with just 2 kids who don't have enough room behind the second row in suv's the size of an ascent, mdx, xc90 etc just going to a kids sports game if they are a coach and their kids are playing and they have extra stuff to bring like nets etc on top of a stroller, cooler, chairs, tents, sports bags, every weekend or several nights a week.
I just don't want to get something and feel cramped for space and regret it.

I am hoping my purchase lasts 9/10 years. 120-135k before issues start creeping in.
So if I keep that long, by the end of this car's life for me, I will have a 13 yo, 10 yo, 9yo

I could probably get by with something the size of a pallisade, telluride, explorer, pathfinder, highlander, pilot,etc. As others have mentioned, roof or hitch mounted storage options are possibilities as well if I find I need just a little more room.
eric321
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by eric321 »

I'd say bite the bullet and just go with a minivan.

The market has a lot of Chrysler Pacifica out there, especially the plug in hybrid version.

Minivans will cost less than a similar sized suv. You can always trade up later when things normalize.

The supply chain shortages are not balanced. A used Honda and a new Chrysler are the same price. You can always online shop.for an extended warranty for about $500/year.

I'd go for the new Pacifica for 3 years and reevaluate then.
Topic Author
Bikes4life
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

stoptothink wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:36 am
crossbow wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:58 pm OP, what kind of stuff do you lug around in the vehicle that families 15 years ago did not? The size of the average car not too long ago was much smaller than what it is today; most families got by on what would be considered sub-compact sedans by today's standards.

My point - instead of searching for a specific size of vehicle, is it possible to downsize the stuff you intend to carry around? That might give you more options in your search for a vehicle.
This is always the first question in my mind. We have two kids and the biggest of our vehicles is a Ford Maverick (the smallest truck sold in the U.S.). I can't imagine needing more space; went on a weekend camping trip a few weeks ago and could have easily taken twice our equipment. IMO, it's kind of like buying a home with multiple extra bedrooms thinking that someday you'll have a bunch of family coming for an extended stay - meanwhile your stuck with the cost and hassle of dealing with something that is bigger than you need, every single day. I don't get it, but we Americans sure do like our big cars.
You do have a point and I agree. I really don't know my exact needs as the kids are young, but I can tell you that my wife and I are over packers by nature so that does not help and that isn't going to change. Have always been that way. Jealous of the folks who can hike a mountain with nothing more than a water bottle. I am the guy with a bag on a 5 hour hike that could provide for 3 folks for 3 days :oops:

I am trying to find the compromise.
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Bikes4life
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

eric321 wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:49 am I'd say bite the bullet and just go with a minivan.

The market has a lot of Chrysler Pacifica out there, especially the plug in hybrid version.

Minivans will cost less than a similar sized suv. You can always trade up later when things normalize.

The supply chain shortages are not balanced. A used Honda and a new Chrysler are the same price. You can always online shop.for an extended warranty for about $500/year.

I'd go for the new Pacifica for 3 years and reevaluate then.
This has also been another consideration either a minivan or an suv to get us by for a few years but who knows what normal will look like then.
I have started looking into extended warranty prices as well. I have learned that they increase in price every 12,000 miles.
The pacifica, although awd and good safety ratings, concerns me with reliability, but like you said if its a few years, dump it. it is something to consider. I know a few people with pacificas who have replaced them shortly after for issues.
When I was looking at them I didn't find too many awd with bench seats.
The other issue with the minivan is for my wife, she feels safer in an suv being higher off the ground etc and more confident in the snow. Awd suv beats awd minivan
Last edited by Bikes4life on Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

Vivbet wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:40 pm I would absolutely get the new car with the latest safety features. There is nothing more important than safety imo.

My daughter was in a very serious car accident recently. There was nothing left of the back of the car but she walked away unscathed. Plus the car called the police for her. Really glad she was in a new car.

Good luck with your purchase - all cars are ridiculously expensive these days!
Glad your daughter is okay! Scary stuff. Amazing to see people walk away from these crazy accidents.
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Bikes4life
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

finite_difference wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 6:59 pm
Bikes4life wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:28 pm Sorry, no it is not. I meant pacifica haha.
Too many damn car models I have been looking at.
FWD and Michelin Climate Control 2 tires should get you virtually anywhere?
I have considered FWD van with snow tires as well. I have done the snow tire swap in the past years ago.
My wife would much rather be in a car with awd and good tires. She is a nervous nelly driving as it is.
She probably wouldn't even consider it.I could probably get by with it, but not her.
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Bikes4life
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 6:41 pm
Bikes4life wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:41 am
The problem with the road test reviews, is that it doesn't really equal a family lifestyle for an apples-to-apples comparison.
There are so many families I know who have traverses, and every one of them swears by them.
I haven't heard any negatives. Many of them are on their 2nd or 3rd traverses.
I wish there were more choices though!
I just looked at the engine choices for the Traverse and ... oh no. The infamous 3.6L. This engine is notorious for timing chain stretching early on. If it skips a gear, which it can, it destroys the engine. This is an old and common 3.6L problem. I have been considering a Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing which has a turbo version of that engine and have pretty much decided that if I do buy one, I'll absolutely sell it before the powertrain warranty is up. In addition, I'd be changing oil every 2000 miles which seems excessive, but can help greatly with preventing problems with this problematic engine.

If you're not willing to get rid of this before the powertrain warranty is up, look for something else. I note the warranty is 5 years 60k miles on the drivetrain which is interesting as the Cadillac with the same base engine is 6 years, 70k miles.

I don't know SUVs very well but looking at the Cadillac, it looks like the XT6 is the twin to the Traverse. It does have a 6 year 70k mile powertrain warranty. If you must get this vehicle, I'd consider the Caddy for the better warranty.
I did not know that about the 3.6L. Thanks for pointing out. I will need to keep that in mind! I suppose an extended powertrain warranty would be the only option, would have to price it out. The XT6 is a nice ride, but unfortunately, they only offer 2nd row captains chairs.
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Watty »

One more thought, with three kids already you might also consider if having any more kids is a possibility. If so then a minivan might be your only good option.
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

Watty wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:48 am One more thought, with three kids already you might also consider if having any more kids is a possibility. If so then a minivan might be your only good option.
oh for sure, if we were to have more than 3, a minivan is the way to go but my wife and I are both pretty content with calling it quits with 3!
crossbow
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by crossbow »

Bikes4life wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:56 am
stoptothink wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:36 am
crossbow wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:58 pm OP, what kind of stuff do you lug around in the vehicle that families 15 years ago did not? The size of the average car not too long ago was much smaller than what it is today; most families got by on what would be considered sub-compact sedans by today's standards.

My point - instead of searching for a specific size of vehicle, is it possible to downsize the stuff you intend to carry around? That might give you more options in your search for a vehicle.
This is always the first question in my mind. We have two kids and the biggest of our vehicles is a Ford Maverick (the smallest truck sold in the U.S.). I can't imagine needing more space; went on a weekend camping trip a few weeks ago and could have easily taken twice our equipment. IMO, it's kind of like buying a home with multiple extra bedrooms thinking that someday you'll have a bunch of family coming for an extended stay - meanwhile your stuck with the cost and hassle of dealing with something that is bigger than you need, every single day. I don't get it, but we Americans sure do like our big cars.
You do have a point and I agree. I really don't know my exact needs as the kids are young, but I can tell you that my wife and I are over packers by nature so that does not help and that isn't going to change. Have always been that way. Jealous of the folks who can hike a mountain with nothing more than a water bottle. I am the guy with a bag on a 5 hour hike that could provide for 3 folks for 3 days :oops:

I am trying to find the compromise.
Made me lol. :D That's me sometimes too tbh. Have you considered possibly putting stuff in the footwell area of the rear row - that could be potential unused space for carry on sized bags or kids toys, maybe even smaller bikes. It takes a while for kids' legs to use that space. :sharebeer
stoptothink
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by stoptothink »

crossbow wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:59 pm
Bikes4life wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:56 am
stoptothink wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:36 am
crossbow wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:58 pm OP, what kind of stuff do you lug around in the vehicle that families 15 years ago did not? The size of the average car not too long ago was much smaller than what it is today; most families got by on what would be considered sub-compact sedans by today's standards.

My point - instead of searching for a specific size of vehicle, is it possible to downsize the stuff you intend to carry around? That might give you more options in your search for a vehicle.
This is always the first question in my mind. We have two kids and the biggest of our vehicles is a Ford Maverick (the smallest truck sold in the U.S.). I can't imagine needing more space; went on a weekend camping trip a few weeks ago and could have easily taken twice our equipment. IMO, it's kind of like buying a home with multiple extra bedrooms thinking that someday you'll have a bunch of family coming for an extended stay - meanwhile your stuck with the cost and hassle of dealing with something that is bigger than you need, every single day. I don't get it, but we Americans sure do like our big cars.
You do have a point and I agree. I really don't know my exact needs as the kids are young, but I can tell you that my wife and I are over packers by nature so that does not help and that isn't going to change. Have always been that way. Jealous of the folks who can hike a mountain with nothing more than a water bottle. I am the guy with a bag on a 5 hour hike that could provide for 3 folks for 3 days :oops:

I am trying to find the compromise.
Made me lol. :D That's me sometimes too tbh. Have you considered possibly putting stuff in the footwell area of the rear row - that could be potential unused space for carry on sized bags or kids toys, maybe even smaller bikes. It takes a while for kids' legs to use that space. :sharebeer
Wife and I shared a single car (a 3-door hyundai accent hatch) for a few years after our 2nd was born. Went on many long road trips and camping trips as a family in that car - with two car seats and all our gear. Necessity is the mother of invention; it taught us how to pack efficiently. Anything larger than a subcompact feels absolutely spacious regardless of where we are going and what gear we need.
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Bikes4life
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

crossbow wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:59 pm
Bikes4life wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:56 am
stoptothink wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:36 am
crossbow wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:58 pm OP, what kind of stuff do you lug around in the vehicle that families 15 years ago did not? The size of the average car not too long ago was much smaller than what it is today; most families got by on what would be considered sub-compact sedans by today's standards.

My point - instead of searching for a specific size of vehicle, is it possible to downsize the stuff you intend to carry around? That might give you more options in your search for a vehicle.
This is always the first question in my mind. We have two kids and the biggest of our vehicles is a Ford Maverick (the smallest truck sold in the U.S.). I can't imagine needing more space; went on a weekend camping trip a few weeks ago and could have easily taken twice our equipment. IMO, it's kind of like buying a home with multiple extra bedrooms thinking that someday you'll have a bunch of family coming for an extended stay - meanwhile your stuck with the cost and hassle of dealing with something that is bigger than you need, every single day. I don't get it, but we Americans sure do like our big cars.
You do have a point and I agree. I really don't know my exact needs as the kids are young, but I can tell you that my wife and I are over packers by nature so that does not help and that isn't going to change. Have always been that way. Jealous of the folks who can hike a mountain with nothing more than a water bottle. I am the guy with a bag on a 5 hour hike that could provide for 3 folks for 3 days :oops:

I am trying to find the compromise.
Made me lol. :D That's me sometimes too tbh. Have you considered possibly putting stuff in the footwell area of the rear row - that could be potential unused space for carry on sized bags or kids toys, maybe even smaller bikes. It takes a while for kids' legs to use that space. :sharebeer
Oh yes, we use that space with the kids bags already. one permanently stays on 1 side and the other is freebie space for anything else
deikel
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by deikel »

The new safety feature stuff has been discussed many times around here

The reality is that 'newer safety features' have less and less effect for their cost and the last time a dramatic improvement was to be had was the introduction of the seat belt...ever since, its a very gradual improvement and you can argue that your personal driving style, the area you drive in and the weather conditions you (have to) drive in (and your choice of appropriate tires) are all more meaningful by far.

The death rate per milage is effectively constant over the last 20 years (but injuries may still have been reduced in numbers and intensity)

https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehic ... mprovement.

As a sales guide, I would say that a 5-7 year used car will not meaningfully increase your risk.

Of course, automakers marketing will have a different opinion.
Everything you read in this post is my personal opinion. If you disagree with this disclaimer, please un-read the text immediately and destroy any copy or remembrance of it.
YeahBuddy
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by YeahBuddy »

Bikes4life wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:44 pm At a loss with these prices and rates. Need to upgrade for growing family and I only have 6 months.

Debating either paying cash for a 5-7 year old used one with 30k mile range or less and someone elses potential problems $25k range or putting half down on a new $50k suv. The new safety features are what is leaning me towards a newer one, but am concerned about huge depreciation hit, especially on new, if the market does correct. I can order exactly the car I want and it will be in on time. The car currently looking at new is offering rates 1.9, 3.9, 4.9 plus cash back. Problem is limited available and hardly any in the combo we need. New and used

I am hoping manufacturers start rolling out better incentives which they have slowly started to.

I get this feeling that manufacturers are just playing games and keeping the market status quo by limiting production, so I am wondering if new car prices are just here to stay

The part I put in BOLD above is 100% true.

Next, just because you're buying a 5 year old SUV (or minivan?) doesn't mean you're giving up a ton of safety features. And the problems list probably isn't as long as you think, especially if you're sticking with the reliable brands.

But 30k miles or less on a 5-7 year old vehicle is unusually low. I don't know many people that drive under 5k miles a year. But if you can find one, that would be perfect. That's almost new.

You would absolutely have a huge depreciation hit buying a new vehicle.


From a quick google search, I found just 1 (2017-2019) Toyota Highlander under 30k miles for $32k. Most have 50k+ miles. Best of luck!
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tibbitts
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by tibbitts »

crossbow wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:58 pm OP, what kind of stuff do you lug around in the vehicle that families 15 years ago did not? The size of the average car not too long ago was much smaller than what it is today; most families got by on what would be considered sub-compact sedans by today's standards.

My point - instead of searching for a specific size of vehicle, is it possible to downsize the stuff you intend to carry around? That might give you more options in your search for a vehicle.
I would say that fifteen years ago many families owned minivans, and before that full-sized station wagons - not necessarily sub-compact-sedan-sized vehicles as you suggest.
crossbow
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by crossbow »

tibbitts wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 4:34 pm
crossbow wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:58 pm OP, what kind of stuff do you lug around in the vehicle that families 15 years ago did not? The size of the average car not too long ago was much smaller than what it is today; most families got by on what would be considered sub-compact sedans by today's standards.

My point - instead of searching for a specific size of vehicle, is it possible to downsize the stuff you intend to carry around? That might give you more options in your search for a vehicle.
I would say that fifteen years ago many families owned minivans, and before that full-sized station wagons - not necessarily sub-compact-sedan-sized vehicles as you suggest.
A full-sized car in 1990 would be considered a mid-sized vehicle in 2023.
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by MH2 »

Bikes4life wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:46 am I don't think I necessarily have any out of the ordinary needs than most parents. Our 2 row suv with 2 kids is barely enough to get a bike trailer OR a stroller and a few bags. If we were out with the strollers and needed to shop, there is no room for bags. A trip to the beach or the bike path is barely enough room and we aren't even bringing kids bikes yet. I would like room inside to stuff the smaller bikes until they are large enough for the bike rack.
If you only had two kids, a used Buick Regal TourX AWD station wagon would be great option.

Have you looked at the Model Y? You should be able to fit three car seats in the rear fairly easily, as long as you have the right seats. Two strollers and a couple of small kids bikes should easily fit in the trunk.
MH2
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by MH2 »

crossbow wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:48 am
tibbitts wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 4:34 pm
crossbow wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:58 pm OP, what kind of stuff do you lug around in the vehicle that families 15 years ago did not? The size of the average car not too long ago was much smaller than what it is today; most families got by on what would be considered sub-compact sedans by today's standards.

My point - instead of searching for a specific size of vehicle, is it possible to downsize the stuff you intend to carry around? That might give you more options in your search for a vehicle.
I would say that fifteen years ago many families owned minivans, and before that full-sized station wagons - not necessarily sub-compact-sedan-sized vehicles as you suggest.
A full-sized car in 1990 would be considered a mid-sized vehicle in 2023.
The 1980s and 1990s were something of an aberration. Here's a size comparison between a mid-1960's Chevrolet Impala and a current generation Suburban: https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compar ... -2020-suv/.

Americans have always liked big cars. Here's a Federal Reserve report from 1968 on auto imports. The sticking point for me is "auto manufacturers reported plans to produce small cars in the United States to compete in size and price with smaller imports". Same song and dance, except that they've essentially stopped trying.

The issue with modern SUVs and trucks isn't their foot print - it's their ride hight. It also doesn't help that a lot of them have comparatively smaller interiors and trunk spaces thanks to oversized body panels.
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

MH2 wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 3:19 am
Bikes4life wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:46 am I don't think I necessarily have any out of the ordinary needs than most parents. Our 2 row suv with 2 kids is barely enough to get a bike trailer OR a stroller and a few bags. If we were out with the strollers and needed to shop, there is no room for bags. A trip to the beach or the bike path is barely enough room and we aren't even bringing kids bikes yet. I would like room inside to stuff the smaller bikes until they are large enough for the bike rack.
If you only had two kids, a used Buick Regal TourX AWD station wagon would be great option.

Have you looked at the Model Y? You should be able to fit three car seats in the rear fairly easily, as long as you have the right seats. Two strollers and a couple of small kids bikes should easily fit in the trunk.
We have a 3rd coming in a few months. If otherwise, we would definitely keep our current suv
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Tubes
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Tubes »

Bikes4life wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:04 am
MH2 wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 3:19 am
Bikes4life wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:46 am I don't think I necessarily have any out of the ordinary needs than most parents. Our 2 row suv with 2 kids is barely enough to get a bike trailer OR a stroller and a few bags. If we were out with the strollers and needed to shop, there is no room for bags. A trip to the beach or the bike path is barely enough room and we aren't even bringing kids bikes yet. I would like room inside to stuff the smaller bikes until they are large enough for the bike rack.
If you only had two kids, a used Buick Regal TourX AWD station wagon would be great option.

Have you looked at the Model Y? You should be able to fit three car seats in the rear fairly easily, as long as you have the right seats. Two strollers and a couple of small kids bikes should easily fit in the trunk.
We have a 3rd coming in a few months. If otherwise, we would definitely keep our current suv
When I bought my Odyssey, I asked the lady why they were selling it. She said: "Dad wanted an SUV." Ha ha. She preferred the minivan with her 3 kids. Of course, they also sold it to dump it on me as it was high mileage with looming issues.
Yarlonkol12
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Yarlonkol12 »

For me it depends on the car, I'm ok dealing with potential problems and the associated risks of a used car for something I want, but only for considerable savings over new. For example I'd buy a 3 year old BMW for 50-60% less than the new MSRP price, but I would never buy a used Honda or Toyota to save some pennies, I'd just get a new one, the depreciation curve is very different

For my wifes car, new only because she doesn't like the uncertainty and risks around used cars, also she keeps cars 10+ years so it's fine

When buying new, why buy off the lot? We have always put in a custom factory order to get the configuration we want
My posts are for entertainment purposes only.
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Tubes
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Tubes »

Yarlonkol12 wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:14 am When buying new, why buy off the lot? We have always put in a custom factory order to get the configuration we want
In in today's low negotiation market, might as well. At least for the popular brands like Toyota.
andypanda
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by andypanda »

The Toyota dealers I've talked to in Richmond VA/NE Region will not do custom orders. Blah, blah, blah, take it or leave it, including all of the $3900 of port installed options on a '23 4Runner Off Road Premium w/KDSS. They have one coming from Japan that I will buy IF they put the cheesy plastic hood protector in the back seat. I'll pay for it, but the deal is off if they install it or mar the hood paint taking it off.

I have a '16 Trail Premium w/KDSS and 62k miles, so I don't need to deal with them. My stepson wants it and I'm nearing 73 and can afford it. Maybe I'll just write a check for a new Lexus GX460 or something similar.
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Bikes4life
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

andypanda wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:33 am The Toyota dealers I've talked to in Richmond VA/NE Region will not do custom orders. Blah, blah, blah, take it or leave it, including all of the $3900 of port installed options on a '23 4Runner Off Road Premium w/KDSS. They have one coming from Japan that I will buy IF they put the cheesy plastic hood protector in the back seat. I'll pay for it, but the deal is off if they install it or mar the hood paint taking it off.

I have a '16 Trail Premium w/KDSS and 62k miles, so I don't need to deal with them. My stepson wants it and I'm nearing 73 and can afford it. Maybe I'll just write a check for a new Lexus GX460 or something similar.
I think that is because Toyota allocates what they want to the dealers. I don't believe there is much custom ordering with Toyotas.
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Tubes
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Tubes »

Bummer! I was hoping my wife could use this tactic for a future 'yota purchase.

We still have some time to wait. I hope Toyota can ramp up. I know the investors are not happy with the reduced output of the corporation.
ddbtoth
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by ddbtoth »

Bikes4life wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:41 am
FireSekr wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:13 am
Bikes4life wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 4:50 am
Watty wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:10 pm What model?

Buying a seven year Old Land rover is a lot different than a used Lexus.
Chevy traverse
Regardless new or used, you should probably look for better alternatives. It’s mediocre at best. You can do a lot better for the same money. Car and driver ranks the Traverse 25 out of 27 vehicles in the midsize category. You can pretty much throw a dart with your eyes closed and land on a better option.

https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/traverse
I know, there unfortunately aren't many options short of going to a larger suv like an expedition, tahoe which are too large.
Majority on those on the C&D list won't work.
It needs to fit 3 car seats across middle bench and have lots of cargo room.
The explorer is probably the 2nd behind it in terms of cargo and equal safety ratings, but the cargo space is questionable.
If we only had 2 kids, then the options are wide open. 3 makes it a challenge with all the gear.

The traverse checks everything off and we have a really good relationship with our gm dealer as well so the dealer support is key.

The problem with the road test reviews, is that it doesn't really equal a family lifestyle for an apples-to-apples comparison.
There are so many families I know who have traverses, and every one of them swears by them.
I haven't heard any negatives. Many of them are on their 2nd or 3rd traverses.
I wish there were more choices though!
I'm sure it's been mentioned, but if not, the Honda Pilot has three row seating with good space if you don't use the last row. They are solid cars with good engines and transmissions. The 2023 is supposedly their "4th" generation but is essentially a third generation with a good track record behind it. And like everyone else is saying, wait as long as you can (or even consider a used Pilot -I love my 2015, which is considered a very good vintage).
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by tibbitts »

Tubes wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:40 am Bummer! I was hoping my wife could use this tactic for a future 'yota purchase.

We still have some time to wait. I hope Toyota can ramp up. I know the investors are not happy with the reduced output of the corporation.
I haven't kept up with the corporate side of things, but is the consensus that this is actually a brilliant tactic on the part of Toyota, or just incompetent management?
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Tubes
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Tubes »

tibbitts wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:12 am
Tubes wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:40 am Bummer! I was hoping my wife could use this tactic for a future 'yota purchase.

We still have some time to wait. I hope Toyota can ramp up. I know the investors are not happy with the reduced output of the corporation.
I haven't kept up with the corporate side of things, but is the consensus that this is actually a brilliant tactic on the part of Toyota, or just incompetent management?
Well, there has been some recent shake up in management. (https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corpo ... 74342.html)

I don't know if there is a consensus, except to say the market has responded negatively on days that Toyota announces they cannot meet production targets (one example: https://news.yahoo.com/toyota-stock-sin ... 38241.html). Although the increase in MSRP and lack of necessary incentives is good for profits, the investors have expressed concern about overall market share, which has been dropping. I don't know if this is a valid concern, but the market is the market. (Sorry I can't find any references right now, this was a thing last Fall and in the news.)

I personally would not buy a Stellantis product (eg: Jeep, Chrysler), but markets worry that brand loyalty can switch during these times. It is very tempting to look at a Stellantis product over a Toyota. Need a minivan? Well, Siennas are impossible to find. Not a problem with Pacificas.

Who knows?

EDIT: when I went back to my queue, I read this thread, and here's a quote. An anecdote from a fellow board member: viewtopic.php?t=406033
Non-Toyota dealers have inventory where I live. Toyota dealers have empty lots. I tried to buy one recently. Distributor puts on add-ons, dealer puts on add-ons. Dealer refused to sell without a bunch of stuff added on adding 25% to MSRP including one item just called “dealer markup” because they ran out of other stuff to add onto it. They’re selling vehicles before they even get to the distributor.

I ended up driving 50 miles to another Toyota dealer that was willing to take off distributor add-ons and only had $2K of dealer add-ons (that they wouldn’t take off). I tried to get a price for my trade-in. They quoted me $2.5K under KBB value and refused to budge. Carvana is coming to pick up the car for $5K more than they offered tomorrow morning. Overall, a frustrating buying experience. I’d wait a few more years if you can to buy or buy a non-Toyota.
Toyota will lose a lot of loyal customers this way.
FrugalConservative
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by FrugalConservative »

A 5-7 year old used CHEVY, heck no. Check out the reliability on those dogs.

If you go used buy a reliable brand.
Jags4186
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Jags4186 »

Option 3: Buy a car you don’t want but has high availability, utility, and discounts.

Consider a new Buick.
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Bikes4life
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

Jags4186 wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:45 am Option 3: Buy a car you don’t want but has high availability, utility, and discounts.

Consider a new Buick.
I would consider an enclave for sure. The problem is that they only make them in captains chairs :?
We need a bench in the middle and it is one of the few must haves.
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by LadyGeek »

FYI - The OP is asking about finances in Which route for car purchase, budget shortfall coming

Use this thread for the car discussion.
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CloseEnough
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by CloseEnough »

I have a 2006 Hyundai Elantra with 140K miles on it that needs transmission repair, or possibly replacement. I looked at new cars, electric, and think I will just repair this one and drive it into the ground. I am currently a low mileage, low use car driver. I could afford a new car, just making a more practical decision, for now. Make sense,, or not?
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Tubes
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Tubes »

CloseEnough wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 7:22 am I have a 2006 Hyundai Elantra with 140K miles on it that needs transmission repair, or possibly replacement. I looked at new cars, electric, and think I will just repair this one and drive it into the ground. I am currently a low mileage, low use car driver. I could afford a new car, just making a more practical decision, for now. Make sense,, or not?
A lot depends on whether you like the car and are comfortable with the lower level of safety compared to a modern vehicle.

If repaired, your car is maybe worth $1k in trade in, and $2.7k in a private sale. It is very likely your transmission replacement will be approx $2.5k. By the numbers, this means it is time to move on to something else.

However, one could argue that if you are comfortable with the car and only drive it rarely, it would be environmentally responsible to repair and use. It is one less impact on the planet as you "sequester" a vehicle for a while instead of sending it to auction which likely would mean it goes to the crusher.

However, you are also playing a game of roulette. Perhaps you blow a head gasket 100 miles after getting the tranny replaced. It happens.

I recently bought a vehicle with 200k miles because I need something to drive low miles per year, and something I have only a 5 year window of use. It seems responsible to do. But I worry about the roulette/lottery problem every day. My current "cost per mile" based on purchase price and repairs is $2 per mile. I'd like to get that to $0.20 per mile before I'm done. I'm not sure I'll make it.
CloseEnough
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by CloseEnough »

Tubes wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 7:50 am
CloseEnough wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 7:22 am I have a 2006 Hyundai Elantra with 140K miles on it that needs transmission repair, or possibly replacement. I looked at new cars, electric, and think I will just repair this one and drive it into the ground. I am currently a low mileage, low use car driver. I could afford a new car, just making a more practical decision, for now. Make sense,, or not?
A lot depends on whether you like the car and are comfortable with the lower level of safety compared to a modern vehicle.

If repaired, your car is maybe worth $1k in trade in, and $2.7k in a private sale. It is very likely your transmission replacement will be approx $2.5k. By the numbers, this means it is time to move on to something else.

However, one could argue that if you are comfortable with the car and only drive it rarely, it would be environmentally responsible to repair and use. It is one less impact on the planet as you "sequester" a vehicle for a while instead of sending it to auction which likely would mean it goes to the crusher.

However, you are also playing a game of roulette. Perhaps you blow a head gasket 100 miles after getting the tranny replaced. It happens.

I recently bought a vehicle with 200k miles because I need something to drive low miles per year, and something I have only a 5 year window of use. It seems responsible to do. But I worry about the roulette/lottery problem every day. My current "cost per mile" based on purchase price and repairs is $2 per mile. I'd like to get that to $0.20 per mile before I'm done. I'm not sure I'll make it.
Thanks, I agree. That is pretty much the same as my analysis, including your comment on environmentally responsible, which I wondered about. I don't necessarily "like" the car, in fact I have never driven it. It is a car in the family that I am taking over. I am comfortable with the safety issues, currently don't have all those, and have a long, safe driving record. Just like in Wobegon I am above average skill driver (except in my case, it is true :happy ). I was surprised to see that even this car, at dealers, is in the $4-6k range. It is possible my repair cost will be less than $2k, but unlikely. I am just using this car as a stop-gap to buy me some time on my next one, extend out the EV world a bit, before I jump in.

I guess the lottery/roulette issue you spotted is real, I have wondered about that too. I don't mind if I end up unlucky on that one, as long as it does not mean I am broken down on the road somewhere. Could happen, although I'm mostly local, which still would be a hassle.
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Tubes
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Tubes »

CloseEnough wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 7:58 am I was surprised to see that even this car, at dealers, is in the $4-6k range.
Yes, dealers are still pressing the used car market, although there are signs that once again it is starting to relax. They may list at $5k, but sell in the upper 3's. There is always a lot of room in those dealer used car numbers, especially for anything not Toyota. :happy
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Jimbo Moneybags »

Bikes4life wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:41 am There are so many families I know who have traverses, and every one of them swears by at them. Many of them are on their 2nd or 3rd traverses.
And that is just within a couple of years of their initial purchase. :oops:
Bikes4life wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:04 am We have a 3rd coming in a few months. If otherwise, we would definitely keep our current suv
What is your current SUV and how old is it?
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

Jimbo Moneybags wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 8:16 am
Bikes4life wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:41 am There are so many families I know who have traverses, and every one of them swears by at them. Many of them are on their 2nd or 3rd traverses.
And that is just within a couple of years of their initial purchase. :oops:

Haha maybe true.
Bikes4life wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:04 am We have a 3rd coming in a few months. If otherwise, we would definitely keep our current suv
What is your current SUV and how old is it?
2017 mazda cx5. I am exploring the feasibility of stuffing 3 car seats in the middle. I know for sure our current ones won't work. It is tight in the 2nd row. We would need to buy 3 narrower car seats and see if any adapters work for our stroller setups so we don't have to buy new stroller too. I have found some articles that discuss what specific car seats will work for ours. I think the issue we found previously was that the middle seat doesn't have lower latch and top tether only. I need to research a bit with the car seat lady, etc to ensure car seat safety.

If we can get the car seats to work temporarily, I am going to see if that will buy us some time, but need to factor in the costs of more car seats and possible stroller scenarios. Still cheaper than a purchase, but need to consider it.
And also the storage is tight as mentioned before. Would need a hitch mounted cargo box or Thule on roof.
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Jimbo Moneybags
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Jimbo Moneybags »

Bikes4life wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:26 pm
Jimbo Moneybags wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 8:16 am
Bikes4life wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:41 am There are so many families I know who have traverses, and every one of them swears by at them. Many of them are on their 2nd or 3rd traverses.
And that is just within a couple of years of their initial purchase. :oops:

Haha maybe true.
Bikes4life wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:04 am We have a 3rd coming in a few months. If otherwise, we would definitely keep our current suv
What is your current SUV and how old is it?
2017 mazda cx5....

I think the issue we found previously was that the middle seat doesn't have lower latch and top tether only.
Here are some child restraints that will fit three across in the 2017 Mazda CX-5:

Clek Fllo, Clek Foonf, and Clek Oobr: https://clekinc.com/collections/car-seats

Diono Radian 3RXT and Diono Radian 3RX (and newer 3 across models): https://diono.com/radian-3-across

There are probably others. I'm not sure how much added storage you think you would need for daily driving, for long trips where you may want to pack more, you can always rent a minivan or similar vehicle. Does your wife have a vehicle? What kind is hers?

Since you mention in your other related thread about purchasing a vehicle that you have a budget shortfall coming, I can assure you that purchasing new car seats and maybe an added cargo solution will be a much better financial option for your family. (FYI...a properly installed car seat using the seat belt along with the top tether in the middle position is just as safe as using lower anchors and top tether). You'll pay significantly less to bring your Mazda CX-5 "up to snuff" than you'd pay in sales tax (or whatever your state uses) alone on a new (or even pre-owned) vehicle! When the kids are older (elementary school age) you may find that your needs now require a minivan or similar and between now and then you can save funds for that purpose so that you can pay cash without it presenting budget or financial concerns for your family.

Good luck and congratulations! :beer
horste
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by horste »

muffins14 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:02 am
Valuethinker wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:57 am
muffins14 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:48 am Do people really need rear pedestrian alert, lane alert, and assisted braking?

I feel like I’m turning into an old curmudgeon, but when I owned a car from 2002-2010 in high school and college, I didn’t die. I have to imagine that cars from earlier than your 5-7 year cutoff are basically the same in terms of actually measurable safety. The thing you have to look out for is more likely people driving while texting or scrolling Instagram and slamming into you, which I’m not sure is helped by assistive braking or pedestrian alerts etc

Just wait for apple goggles or whatever. I’m sure it’ll be great on the road
Road death rates are up considerably in the US, I believe. At least compared to 2019. It looks as if people got used to driving faster and more aggressively during the Covid period and have not readjusted their behaviour.

Also vehicles have gotten bigger. Which makes them more deadly if they collide with you. (Pedestrian road death rates are up a *lot* - this may be because newer vehicles have higher grills and so less visibility).
Correct, but I don’t think the pedestrians are being run over backwards such that a rear alert is helpful

Does assistive braking detect pedestrians and automatically slow you down as you approach an intersection? I imagine it does not
The other factor in the increased death rate of US driving has been the speed of the vehicles. Fewer vehicles on the road, designed for high capacity, allowed more drivers to increase their speed.
SchruteB&B
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by SchruteB&B »

tibbitts wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 4:34 pm
crossbow wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:58 pm OP, what kind of stuff do you lug around in the vehicle that families 15 years ago did not? The size of the average car not too long ago was much smaller than what it is today; most families got by on what would be considered sub-compact sedans by today's standards.

My point - instead of searching for a specific size of vehicle, is it possible to downsize the stuff you intend to carry around? That might give you more options in your search for a vehicle.
I would say that fifteen years ago many families owned minivans, and before that full-sized station wagons - not necessarily sub-compact-sedan-sized vehicles as you suggest.
15 years ago was 2008 and I had two elementary school aged kids. Every single family I knew, whether they had 1 kid or 5, drove a minivan or a larger SUV, like a Hummer. Absolutely no one with kids had a vehicle that I would describe as “much smaller” than today’s vehicles.
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Re: New or used car in today's market?

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