Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

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Macaroni2314
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Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by Macaroni2314 »

Hi,

I'm a 35 year old currently switching careers. I'm relatively financially stable in that I don't have to work for several years. I live with my parents out of convenience and desire to be close to them as they get older. I don't have kids, and I'm not married. I'm American born, and my parents are Taiwanese born naturalized American citizens. They both hold dual citizenship.

After a few months of trying, I was able to get my Taiwanese passport.

More or less, the next step is to fufill "duration of stay requirements". These are the options:

1) 365 consecutive days OR

2) 270 days per year for two consecutive years OR

3) 180 days per year for five consecutive years

The main benefit reason that they are pushing me to get dual citizenship is to get access to free healthcare for life (unless the Taiwanese government takes it away). According to my dad, he said I don't need to live in Taiwan 'xyz' number of days per year to maintain citizenship..

I'm considering doing the 365 days one since it's the least number of days, but I'm still on the fence about doing it at all, because it's obviously quite a long time.

I'm also pretty healthy, but I'm a conservative person, so this seems like a really good safety net in case I get very sick before age 65..

If you Google, Taiwan is among the world's best healthcare systems. I feel like this is a really compelling point to consider.

I can speak some Mandarin, but not Taiwanese. I don't mind learning Mandarin though.

What do you guys think about doing this?

Thank you for your help.
ivgrivchuck
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by ivgrivchuck »

I am a U.S. permanent resident, but I consider my European passport (and the passports of our family members) to be worth of gold.

If things go really bad and I need to return, I am/we are entitled to free healthcare, unlimited minimum unemployments benefits, and minimum state pension.

It helps me to maintain my aggressive (maybe not in Bogleheads standards?) stock allocation, since I have a good safety net.

There is some value for you too I'm sure. Whether it is worth spending 1/50 of your expected lifetime in another country, I cannot tell, and nobody can...
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Badinvestor
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by Badinvestor »

A year's sabbatical in Taiwan would be a small price to pay and probably fun. The problem rather seems to me the future of Taiwan as an independent pseudo-country. I'm sure you know more about this than I do.
dan23
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by dan23 »

You said you were able to get Taiwanese passport. I have no Taiwan specific knowledge, but you can get a Taiwanese passport before getting citizenship? Ae you sure you aren't already a citizen?
Topic Author
Macaroni2314
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by Macaroni2314 »

dan23 wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 8:21 pm You said you were able to get Taiwanese passport. I have no Taiwan specific knowledge, but you can get a Taiwanese passport before getting citizenship? Ae you sure you aren't already a citizen?
Yes, I'm not quite clear why/how I was able to get a passport but not be a citizen either; I followed this woman's blog in the same sequential steps: https://www.chloechows.com/taiwan

her steps are the same: 1) Apply for Taiwanese passport (I have done this)

2) Applying for residency - something about having a friend or family member in Taiwan legally adding me to their household. This won't be a problem for me.

3) Applying for citizenship - that's after staying in the country and doing a physical etc
Topic Author
Macaroni2314
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by Macaroni2314 »

frose2 wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 8:19 pm A year's sabbatical in Taiwan would be a small price to pay and probably fun. The problem rather seems to me the future of Taiwan as an independent pseudo-country. I'm sure you know more about this than I do.
You're right; I've been reading the news too, but I wasn't considering this for myself... That's a good point!
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Macaroni2314
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by Macaroni2314 »

ivgrivchuck wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 8:11 pm I am a U.S. permanent resident, but I consider my European passport (and the passports of our family members) to be worth of gold.

If things go really bad and I need to return, I am/we are entitled to free healthcare, unlimited minimum unemployments benefits, and minimum state pension.

It helps me to maintain my aggressive (maybe not in Bogleheads standards?) stock allocation, since I have a good safety net.

There is some value for you too I'm sure. Whether it is worth spending 1/50 of your expected lifetime in another country, I cannot tell, and nobody can...
Yes, I've been reading online about the benefits of dual citizenships, and it's something to strongly consider for whatever personal reasons anyone has!

Thank you for making your case that it's a good idea. I generally think so too for the country's benefits that we're entitled to.
AnotherRetiredGuy
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by AnotherRetiredGuy »

Macaroni2314 wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 8:03 pm

If you Google, Taiwan is among the world's best healthcare systems. I feel like this is a really compelling point to consider.
I spent 9 weeks there and loved it (visiting son who taught English). People are of course very friendly and welcoming, even if you don’t know mandarin. (Example: we got stuck walking with dark approaching and in a taxi desert. I hitchhiked and was quickly picked up. I shared that, at age 60, it was the first time in my life I had ever hitchhiked, and the driver said it was the first time in his life he ever picked someone up.)

Overworked nurses there often have a different take on the quality of the health care system. Co-pays are so low that people are quick to go to the doc for just a cold, forcing physicians to keep visits short. Dentistry is different from the U.S., but people still seem to have teeth. Probably you have already heard some of this. Taiwan is good and no health care system has zero weaknesses.
Last edited by AnotherRetiredGuy on Fri May 26, 2023 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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HueyLD
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by HueyLD »

Highly recommend that you explorer all the publications by NHIA. For example:

“Loss of Insurance Eligibility

People are not allowed to participate in the National Health Insurance program and those already enrolled must withdraw from the program under the following circumstances:

They are missing for six months or more. If an individual is missing because of a natural disaster, coverage can be withdrawn from the day the disaster occurred.

They lose Taiwan citizenship, move overseas, or have an expired Alien Resident Certificate.”

https://eng.nhi.gov.tw/en/cp-48-4cb1b-25-2.html
Topic Author
Macaroni2314
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by Macaroni2314 »

HueyLD wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 9:01 pm Highly recommend that you explorer all the publications by NHIA. For example:

“Loss of Insurance Eligibility

People are not allowed to participate in the National Health Insurance program and those already enrolled must withdraw from the program under the following circumstances:

They are missing for six months or more. If an individual is missing because of a natural disaster, coverage can be withdrawn from the day the disaster occurred.

They lose Taiwan citizenship, move overseas, or have an expired Alien Resident Certificate.”

https://eng.nhi.gov.tw/en/cp-48-4cb1b-25-2.html
This is really helpful, thank you! I will look more into this.
Wannaretireearly
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by Wannaretireearly »

Having dual citizenship, especially once with universal healthcare, helps me sleep at night.
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FunnelCakeBob
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by FunnelCakeBob »

It's not very clear from the initial post whether you're already living in Taiwan now, or your parents are currently in Taiwan and you're considering living there with them. If you're able to get a passport, you're likely a citizen of Taiwan already. I'd look into that first before jumping in. This may be a question of establishing some sort of residency requirement in order to be eligible for free healthcare. An acquaintance (born in Taiwan and a naturalized US citizen who currently lives in the US) established or registered an official residence there in order to take advantage of the healthcare benefits. I don't recall this person having to spend a substantial amount of time to meet a duration of stay requirement.

If you're up for the adventure, then go for it, but only you can make that decision. It could be a fun year of experiencing the local culture and learning Taiwanese and sharpening your Mardarin skills. And Taiwan does have a well-run single-payer healthcare system. Not to mention outstanding night market and street food and friendly people in an open and free society.

I'm have no direct personal knowledge but be aware that Taiwan may have a year or 2 of compulsory military service requirements for males of late teens or early 20s of age (as with most countries around the world that's not the US). If so, and since you're well past that age bracket and American-born, there probably is an exemption that you could apply for. My understanding of civic life under Taiwanese government is that it can be efficient but also very procedural and bureaucratic so if you need to apply for an exemption, be sure to have the paperwork lined up and approved. Otherwise you might get forced to serve or spend weekends on military duty. Please consult an expert or attorney.
Topic Author
Macaroni2314
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by Macaroni2314 »

FunnelCakeBob wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 9:10 pm It's not very clear from the initial post whether you're already living in Taiwan now, or your parents are currently in Taiwan and you're considering living there with them. If you're able to get a passport, you're likely a citizen of Taiwan already. I'd look into that first before jumping in. This may be a question of establishing some sort of residency requirement in order to be eligible for free healthcare. An acquaintance (born in Taiwan and a naturalized US citizen who currently lives in the US) established or registered an official residence there in order to take advantage of the healthcare benefits. I don't recall this person having to spend a substantial amount of time to meet a duration of stay requirement.

If you're up for the adventure, then go for it, but only you can make that decision. It could be a fun year of experiencing the local culture and learning Taiwanese and sharpening your Mardarin skills. And Taiwan does have a well-run single-payer healthcare system. Not to mention outstanding night market and street food and friendly people in an open and free society.

I'm have no direct personal knowledge but be aware that Taiwan may have a year or 2 of compulsory military service requirements for males of late teens or early 20s of age (as with most countries around the world that's not the US). If so, and since you're well past that age bracket and American-born, there probably is an exemption that you could apply for. My understanding of civic life under Taiwanese government is that it can be efficient but also very procedural and bureaucratic so if you need to apply for an exemption, be sure to have the paperwork lined up and approved. Otherwise you might get forced to serve or spend weekends on military duty. Please consult an expert or attorney.
Sorry for the confusion; I live in the United States with my parents.
And your logic makes sense about citizenship leading to passport.
And that's also a good point about the military service.

A previous poster sent a link about losing health insurance eligibility if I'm out of Taiwan for more than 6 months at a time, so maybe this isn't really "free healthcare for life" after all.. But I appreciate all the feedback here so I can make the most informed decision possible, thanks!
JBTX
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by JBTX »

Warren Buffett just divested all of Berkshire holdings from Taiwan Semiconductor who he describes as one of the best companies in the world, but “I don’t like its location and reevaluated that”

You do the math.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/buffett- ... 16874.html
boogiehead
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by boogiehead »

Macaroni2314 wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 9:05 pm
HueyLD wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 9:01 pm Highly recommend that you explorer all the publications by NHIA. For example:

“Loss of Insurance Eligibility

People are not allowed to participate in the National Health Insurance program and those already enrolled must withdraw from the program under the following circumstances:

They are missing for six months or more. If an individual is missing because of a natural disaster, coverage can be withdrawn from the day the disaster occurred.

They lose Taiwan citizenship, move overseas, or have an expired Alien Resident Certificate.”

https://eng.nhi.gov.tw/en/cp-48-4cb1b-25-2.html
This is really helpful, thank you! I will look more into this.
You will be ok as long as you apply for this exemption.

https://eng.nhi.gov.tw/en/cp-51-37d30-28-2.html
Topic Author
Macaroni2314
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by Macaroni2314 »

boogiehead wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 9:59 pm
Macaroni2314 wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 9:05 pm
HueyLD wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 9:01 pm Highly recommend that you explorer all the publications by NHIA. For example:

“Loss of Insurance Eligibility

People are not allowed to participate in the National Health Insurance program and those already enrolled must withdraw from the program under the following circumstances:

They are missing for six months or more. If an individual is missing because of a natural disaster, coverage can be withdrawn from the day the disaster occurred.

They lose Taiwan citizenship, move overseas, or have an expired Alien Resident Certificate.”

https://eng.nhi.gov.tw/en/cp-48-4cb1b-25-2.html
This is really helpful, thank you! I will look more into this.
You will be ok as long as you apply for this exemption.

https://eng.nhi.gov.tw/en/cp-51-37d30-28-2.html
Thanks for following up with me on this!

I just called my mom who is visiting Taiwan right now; she said the web site is misleading about the "losing eligibility being gone for 6 months". It's really if someone leaves the country and stops paying the premium for more than 6 months. Apparently it's a controversial issue in Taiwan because a lot of Taiwanese people their age moved to the US or Canada and stopped paying their premiums and then come back to visit and restart their care.. I guess they don't go through that formal process listed on the other page?

She has been gone from Taiwan for more than 6 months at a time but never stopped paying her premium. Whenever she goes back to visit, she gets any care she needs no problem.
jh4986
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by jh4986 »

Go sign up for an account in: https://tw.forumosa.com/

This is a site created for foreigners currently living in Taiwan. Many are expat Americans, Australians, Englishmen and some overseas Taiwanese like OP. Go introduce yourself and start asking any questions you have. Someone will have similar background and experience to answer your questions.
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celia
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by celia »

I am of the mindset that nothing in life is “free” especially from a government. They have to pay for the care somehow. How does Taiwan pay for healthcare? Now I see comments that you have to pay premiums. And the medical pros may work for the government.(???)

I was also scratching my head on how you can get a passport for a country where you are not a citizen and have never lived there, so I’m glad you plan to solve that mystery.

Another point that has not been brought up yet is what you would do if you had a spouse or kids who were not Taiwanese? If you were seriously ill, would you go to Taiwan alone to get care? Or would you want them to move with you knowing they might not be eligible for health care?

Probably the best thing to do is to find someone who was in your current situation 20+ years ago to see what they did and see how it ended up. Would your parents or relatives know such a person so you could talk to them yourself?
EddyB
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by EddyB »

celia wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 4:31 am
I was also scratching my head on how you can get a passport for a country where you are not a citizen and have never lived there, so I’m glad you plan to solve that mystery.
Taiwan is not the only country in which this occurs. The US is another example. Generally, the distinction is between being a national and being a citizen (although “nationality,” confusingly, has a somewhat different usage).
truenorth418
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by truenorth418 »

I think you should do it. You are fortunate to have this option. You never know what the future holds and there may come a time when the Taiwanese citizenship becomes very useful to you.

One piece of pushback: Nowhere on Earth is healthcare “free”. The doctors are not working for charity and the hospitals are not operated from donations. I assume the Taiwanese system works like all the other “free” systems that is it is paid for through taxes. Maybe this will will someday come out of your taxes if you ever reside there and pay into their system. In the meantime, this is other people’s money and you should never lose sight of that.
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Macaroni2314
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by Macaroni2314 »

jh4986 wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 10:05 pm Go sign up for an account in: https://tw.forumosa.com/

This is a site created for foreigners currently living in Taiwan. Many are expat Americans, Australians, Englishmen and some overseas Taiwanese like OP. Go introduce yourself and start asking any questions you have. Someone will have similar background and experience to answer your questions.
Thank you! Will start looking into this.
rjbraun
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by rjbraun »

It's an interesting idea, but as another poster noted, it doesn't seem "free" to the extent that there is a premium involved. And if it's true that people may stop paying the premiums when they are out of country, it would seem that the cost might not be trivial. Ok, admittedly, maybe people just "forget" or don't want to be bothered.

Also, what does "free" mean? Does that mean after, say, someone gets a negative medical diagnosis, all the subsequent treatment, e.g., medications, surgery, perhaps, and follow-up care is also free? And if the person is no longer able to care for themselves but still expected to have good prospects for living to the actuarial age, will the government foot the bill? I guess another thing for OP to consider is whether the care offered would be of the quality, etc. they would desire. Not saying it wouldn't be, I have no idea. For example, in the US maybe one can get free(or cheaper) healthcare via Medicaid, but I think people may prefer to seek non-Medicaid options even if it costs more money. Note: I really don't know, for sure, and am just speculating and am not trying to be controversial or provocative here.

Lastly, I would encourage OP to consider what circumstances they would tap the free healthcare. I'm assuming that unless OP were planning to live in Taiwan permanently they would use US healthcare for routine checkups, etc. So, would the Taiwan option just be for some worst case scenario, in which case I guess they would need to be prepared to move abroad, thereby basically leaving their life in the US behind.

If it were me, I would still explore the possibility but would want a good idea of just what I be getting, especially when factoring in the possible premiums.

Good luck.
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Macaroni2314
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by Macaroni2314 »

celia wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 4:31 am I am of the mindset that nothing in life is “free” especially from a government. They have to pay for the care somehow. How does Taiwan pay for healthcare? Now I see comments that you have to pay premiums. And the medical pros may work for the government.(???)

I was also scratching my head on how you can get a passport for a country where you are not a citizen and have never lived there, so I’m glad you plan to solve that mystery.

Another point that has not been brought up yet is what you would do if you had a spouse or kids who were not Taiwanese? If you were seriously ill, would you go to Taiwan alone to get care? Or would you want them to move with you knowing they might not be eligible for health care?

Probably the best thing to do is to find someone who was in your current situation 20+ years ago to see what they did and see how it ended up. Would your parents or relatives know such a person so you could talk to them yourself?
Yes, sorry, it's not "completely" free. I asked my mom how much she pays per month. It comes out to about $30 USD a month.

I don't plan on having kids, and in terms of spouse, yes I don't know what that would be like, because my current significant other is not Taiwanese American. I suppose we would have to breach that barrier when the time comes, but it's always good to have options. Obviously, this decision is hedging the chance that I have an extremely expensive medical issue. I feel like young people my age feel like they will never get old, but my parents are a little bit older on average than my friends' parents, so I hear about my parents' friends going through serious health problems, and it does make me reflect about how it would be nice to have options.

I believe my parents' Taiwanese friends also have adult children my age who have the option of doing this. I'm assuming most of them (but that may not necessarily be true) don't have the flexibility I do right now to pursue this. I'm going to ask around though, and also I'm going to ask around that forum that someone posted here in this thread.

Thank you everyone! I assume the average poster here is older than me, so I really appreciate the wisdom you all have to provide as people who have possibly lived through more world news and health experiences.
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Macaroni2314
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by Macaroni2314 »

rjbraun wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 7:41 am It's an interesting idea, but as another poster noted, it doesn't seem "free" to the extent that there is a premium involved. And if it's true that people may stop paying the premiums when they are out of country, it would seem that the cost might not be trivial. Ok, admittedly, maybe people just "forget" or don't want to be bothered.

Also, what does "free" mean? Does that mean after, say, someone gets a negative medical diagnosis, all the subsequent treatment, e.g., medications, surgery, perhaps, and follow-up care is also free? And if the person is no longer able to care for themselves but still expected to have good prospects for living to the actuarial age, will the government foot the bill? I guess another thing for OP to consider is whether the care offered would be of the quality, etc. they would desire. Not saying it wouldn't be, I have no idea. For example, in the US maybe one can get free(or cheaper) healthcare via Medicaid, but I think people may prefer to seek non-Medicaid options even if it costs more money. Note: I really don't know, for sure, and am just speculating and am not trying to be controversial or provocative here.

Lastly, I would encourage OP to consider what circumstances they would tap the free healthcare. I'm assuming that unless OP were planning to live in Taiwan permanently they would use US healthcare for routine checkups, etc. So, would the Taiwan option just be for some worst case scenario, in which case I guess they would need to be prepared to move abroad, thereby basically leaving their life in the US behind.

If it were me, I would still explore the possibility but would want a good idea of just what I be getting, especially when factoring in the possible premiums.

Good luck.
Yes, sorry, I clarified with my mom. She pays $30 USD a month.

I have visited Taiwan during my childhood and gotten small checkups here and there before I guess as a non-citizen looking back. It's not free, but it's very cheap and accessible compared to the United States. I haven't lived through a serious illness and used the healthcare system there, but again, my impression is that it's accessible and affordable for the average Taiwanese citizen.

Yeah, it would really be for a "worst case scenario doomsday" option. It's not really intended for regular usage.

Thank you for your insight!
rjbraun
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by rjbraun »

Macaroni2314 wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 7:45 am
Yes, sorry, I clarified with my mom. She pays $30 USD a month.
Macaroni2314 wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 8:03 pm <snip>
More or less, the next step is to fufill "duration of stay requirements". These are the options:

1) 365 consecutive days OR

2) 270 days per year for two consecutive years OR

3) 180 days per year for five consecutive years

The main benefit reason that they are pushing me to get dual citizenship is to get access to free healthcare for life (unless the Taiwanese government takes it away). According to my dad, he said I don't need to live in Taiwan 'xyz' number of days per year to maintain citizenship..

I'm considering doing the 365 days one since it's the least number of days, but I'm still on the fence about doing it at all, because it's obviously quite a long time.
<snip>
So, if we assume that the lifetime cost associated with the insurance itself, as well as any services, etc. that may be needed, is negligible, it seems like the "cost" of spending 365 consecutive days in Taiwan would be an important consideration. Of course, it's a personal decision for OP. Would the year be viewed as a sacrifice or maybe as as great opportunity to take some time off, etc. - though the reality may end up differently (e.g., OP loves being in Taiwan and it's hardly a sacrifice or, conversely, OP thought it would be wonderful and is miserable).

OP stated 365 consecutive days, which presumably means that if they needed to return to the US for an emergency, or similar, that would require a reset of the clock. I suppose if OP left on day 271 they would only need to return and stay 270 days, for the second consecutive year.

Then, another consideration might be the likelihood that OP would have some worst case scenario medical issue AND would be in a position to want to or be able to pick up and move his life from the US to Taiwan. I guess the first one would depend on OP's personal situation in US (i.e., personal / family relationships here - OP mentions desire to be with their parents as they get older) and the second might be whether OP's medical issue would allow for a long duration overseas flight, etc.

I guess as with other aspects of life, maybe it's not a straightforward decision.
JackoC
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by JackoC »

EddyB wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 5:09 am
celia wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 4:31 am I was also scratching my head on how you can get a passport for a country where you are not a citizen and have never lived there, so I’m glad you plan to solve that mystery.
Taiwan is not the only country in which this occurs. The US is another example. Generally, the distinction is between being a national and being a citizen (although “nationality,” confusingly, has a somewhat different usage).
Yeah, putting aside any legal specifics, if they give you a passport then you're a citizen in layman's terms. The practical question is therefore whether a country in which you've never lived will ever give you a passport. Absolutely, I would even say that countries which under no circumstance issue passports to people who've never lived there are the exception if there are any. Usually it's based on parent(s)' citizenship. Our oldest kid got a US passport before ever living in the US, albeit as a toddler, through my US citizenship. But with some countries you can qualify based on earlier generations of your family (a US born friend got an Italian passport based on grandparent's Italian citizenship) or a pure economic relationship (eg. Portugal's 'Golden Visa' which has been discussed here, invest EUR500k in real estate there, get visa, travel there briefly annually for 5 yrs then you can apply for Portuguese citizenship), not an exhaustive list.
Marseille07
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by Marseille07 »

I think it's a decent plan, especially if you plan to live in Taiwan most of the year.

If you plan to live in the US though, you still need US insurance to cover day-to-day. I don't find it realistic to live uninsured and fly to Taiwan whenever you need medical care.
EddyB
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by EddyB »

JackoC wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 9:52 am
EddyB wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 5:09 am
celia wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 4:31 am I was also scratching my head on how you can get a passport for a country where you are not a citizen and have never lived there, so I’m glad you plan to solve that mystery.
Taiwan is not the only country in which this occurs. The US is another example. Generally, the distinction is between being a national and being a citizen (although “nationality,” confusingly, has a somewhat different usage).
Yeah, putting aside any legal specifics, if they give you a passport then you're a citizen in layman's terms.
Non-citizen US nationals (of which there aren’t so many, now) can’t vote in federal elections. I think that’s quite different from a layman’s understanding of citizenship, but I could be wrong. Unlike Taiwan, though, they get the same healthcare benefits!
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by JackoC »

EddyB wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 10:32 am
JackoC wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 9:52 am
EddyB wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 5:09 am
celia wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 4:31 am I was also scratching my head on how you can get a passport for a country where you are not a citizen and have never lived there, so I’m glad you plan to solve that mystery.
Taiwan is not the only country in which this occurs. The US is another example. Generally, the distinction is between being a national and being a citizen (although “nationality,” confusingly, has a somewhat different usage).
Yeah, putting aside any legal specifics, if they give you a passport then you're a citizen in layman's terms.
Non-citizen US nationals (of which there aren’t so many, now) can’t vote in federal elections. I think that’s quite different from a layman’s understanding of citizenship, but I could be wrong. Unlike Taiwan, though, they get the same healthcare benefits!
I think globally speaking, not to cast any aspersions on anybody, in the 'good' situation people getting passports from countries they don't live in are usually looking primarily for government benefits and/or work rights (eg. my now dual US-Italian friend mainly wanted to dispense w/ work permit requirement as US only passport holder in another EU country) and in the 'bad' situation not having go back to a dangerous place. But noted, there could be various differences in various countries about voting for those for whom that's a priority, and benefits and passport holding don't 100% go together in every case either (there are definitely cases where a passport isn't necessary to get particular benefits from particular countries, and perhaps countries where all passport holders aren't treated exactly the same way in that respect though I don't know of examples). I wasn't particularly speaking of people from other countries getting US passports except as one example among 200 or whatever. In fact since an obviously high % of people here are from the US the 'individual actionable financial' question would tend to be Americans getting passports from other countries. Americans focusing on people from other countries getting US passports, benefits or voting rights tends to be a political topic without a direct personal financial/investing aspect.
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by newacct »

Macaroni2314 wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 8:30 pm
dan23 wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 8:21 pm You said you were able to get Taiwanese passport. I have no Taiwan specific knowledge, but you can get a Taiwanese passport before getting citizenship? Ae you sure you aren't already a citizen?
Yes, I'm not quite clear why/how I was able to get a passport but not be a citizen either; I followed this woman's blog in the same sequential steps: https://www.chloechows.com/taiwan

her steps are the same: 1) Apply for Taiwanese passport (I have done this)

2) Applying for residency - something about having a friend or family member in Taiwan legally adding me to their household. This won't be a problem for me.

3) Applying for citizenship - that's after staying in the country and doing a physical etc
As a child born to a Republic of China (ROC) national, you are automatically an ROC national at birth, no matter where you were born. However, you do not automatically have Taiwan household registration if you were born abroad, and that is what you are trying to get now. You are now considered an ROC national without household registration. You can get an ROC passport, but you do not have the right to live in Taiwan permanently or vote in Taiwanese elections, and your ROC passport which does not have a Taiwan ID number has less visa-free access to other countries than someone with an ROC passport with a Taiwan ID number.
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by cchrissyy »

on the surface it sounds nice to have, but unless they cover care in the US, I am having trouble thinking of cases where you would use it.

many expensive hospitalizations begin as emergencies. car accident, stroke, heart attack. there is no time to position yourself to another country for care. some cancers and long term illnesses begin like that, and some present themselves slower. if you have a slower situation, then ok, you have time to move, but would you really want to?

if you want to spend a year there anyway, great. or if you think you want to live in taiwan someday, perhaps retire there, then it makes more sense, because people normally need more healthcare in those years of life.
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by celia »

Macaroni2314 wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 8:03 pm I'm a 35 year old currently switching careers. . .

. . . I'm also pretty healthy, but I'm a conservative person, so this seems like a really good safety net in case I get very sick before age 65.
This tells me that OP will be eligible for Medicare in 30 years. Medicare only covers services in the states (and part of Canada when traveling between Alaska and the continental 48 states).

It doesn’t make sense to live the year in Taiwan for eligibilty in OP’s later years unless he just likes living there. So this sort of is a “now or never” decision. I think the bigger issue is where OP wants to live in retirement. But he may not know enough about Taiwan since he’s never lived there full-time. Why not try it out and figure out your future while you are there? You can always come back to the states any time you want. And living away from your parents will be good for you.
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by HueyLD »

celia wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 3:45 pm
Macaroni2314 wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 8:03 pm I'm a 35 year old currently switching careers. . .

. . . I'm also pretty healthy, but I'm a conservative person, so this seems like a really good safety net in case I get very sick before age 65.
This tells me that OP will be eligible for Medicare in 30 years. Medicare only covers services in the states (and part of Canada when traveling between Alaska and the continental 48 states).

It doesn’t make sense to live the year in Taiwan for eligibilty in OP’s later years unless he just likes living there. So this sort of is a “now or never” decision. I think the bigger issue is where OP wants to live in retirement. But he may not know enough about Taiwan since he’s never lived there full-time. Why not try it out and figure out your future while you are there? You can always come back to the states any time you want. And living away from your parents will be good for you.
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AnEngineer
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by AnEngineer »

Perhaps also consider whether you want China (PRC) to have any legitimacy in claiming that you are one of their citizens.
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Minority Opinion
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by Minority Opinion »

As long as your future career doesn't require you to have a security clearance, go for it. My wife found out that she couldn't get a job with any defense contractors without giving up her dual Japanese citizenship.
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by EddyB »

Minority Opinion wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 10:52 pm As long as your future career doesn't require you to have a security clearance, go for it. My wife found out that she couldn't get a job with any defense contractors without giving up her dual Japanese citizenship.
While it may be a factor, the odds of a second (friendly nation) citizenship being problematic for a security clearance are said to have been substantially reduced by procedural consolidation and standardization by the DCSA, and related procedural clarifications by the Defense Department, within the past few years.
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by freakyfriday »

Go for it you might even like living there.

I can't think of much as enriching as living and working in another country for an extended period of time.
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by HanSolo »

Sounds cool. I'd do it. I like having options. And I like Taiwan. I tried to see if I could live there via a Gold Card visa (and then get permanent residence subsequently), but got declined. So I moved on.
Macaroni2314 wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 8:03 pm I can speak some Mandarin, but not Taiwanese. I don't mind learning Mandarin though.
My impression is that Mandarin is the main language in practical day-to-day life there, and that one doesn't really need Taiwanese unless they're hanging out in the countryside (and other odd cases, like trying to converse with elderly parents/grandparents of a significant other, etc.).
celia wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 4:31 am I was also scratching my head on how you can get a passport for a country where you are not a citizen and have never lived there, so I’m glad you plan to solve that mystery.
Some countries (UK, Germany, etc.) allow people the status of citizen/national/resident/etc. "by descent". In this case, the sequence sounds odd (getting a passport before citizenship is recognized) but someone else in the thread (as below) said the OP is already a citizen by descent (maybe it's just a technical difference between being a citizen, which may already be the case, and getting some paperwork completed; I guess different countries may have their own versions of "red tape" around this).
JackoC wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 9:52 am Yeah, putting aside any legal specifics, if they give you a passport then you're a citizen in layman's terms ... Usually it's based on parent(s)' citizenship ...
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by Marseille07 »

HanSolo wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 2:34 am Some countries (UK, Germany, etc.) allow people the status of citizen/national/resident/etc. "by descent". In this case, the sequence sounds odd (getting a passport before citizenship is recognized) but someone else in the thread (as below) said the OP is already a citizen by descent (maybe it's just a technical difference between being a citizen, which may already be the case, and getting some paperwork completed; I guess different countries may have their own versions of "red tape" around this).
Yeah, if the OP is already a Taiwanese citizen by descent then presumably they just need to get some paperwork completed and start paying the national healthcare premium.

That said, what's unclear is where they intend to live - if they live in the US, then the Taiwanese national healthcare is affordable but they likely won't cover US medical bills.
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by HueyLD »

Marseille07 wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 10:25 amThat said, what's unclear is where they intend to live - if they live in the US, then the Taiwanese national healthcare is affordable but they likely won't cover US medical bills.
Exactly.

“ Statistics for these payouts are stable and do not fluctuate year-on-year, and people can use this information as a template, Lin said.

Lin cited statistics from October to December last year, saying that the average cost for a clinic visit was NT$1,159 (US$37.74), a visit to an emergency room was NT$2,841 and hospitalization cost NT$6,796 per day.

Although everyone with National Health Insurance (NHI) traveling abroad is guaranteed medical reimbursements, the payouts are considered compensatory and would not cover the total cost, Lin said.

Those traveling to countries with higher medical costs than Taiwan should consider buying additional overseas medical insurance to cover the expenses.”

https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan ... 2003792209
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Re: Can get Taiwanese dual citizenship--am considering it for free healthcare, would you strongly consider it?

Post by spammagnet »

Macaroni2314 wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 7:45 am... Yeah, it would really be for a "worst case scenario doomsday" option. It's not really intended for regular usage. ...
Factor in the risk (small? large? dunno.) of your "worst case scenario doomsday" health being bad enough to preclude a trans-Pacific flight in search of cheap healthcare.

That's a reason not to but, personally, I'd do it because I had the opportunity. My only concern would be if the global political climate changed in a way that radically affected me, but your exposure is only a year.
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