Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
-
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:07 pm
Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
Before I get into the details here, I do want to acknowledge that I know different local jurisdictions would handle this situation in vastly different ways. I also want to share that I've already begun working with local officials on this (more on this below). All that said, I'm really looking for some ideas here on how to permanently solve an ongoing issue with speeding on our residential street. I'm also fully aware that this is an issue almost everywhere and that our neighborhood is not unique with this problem.
I live on a residential street with a 25mph speed limit. The specific street I live in is not a "cut-through" for main streets - it just dead ends into various cul-de-sacs, however, it is an artery within our neighborhood that feeds into roughly 100 additional homes beyond our home. Our stretch of road in question is about 1/4 mile long and is a straightaway. Sad to say, whoever designed our street couldn't have done a better job designing a dragstrip raceway. And that's how (too) many people treat it.
A few pertinent stats on our neighborhood:
1) The front porch of most houses sit only about 45 feet away from the road itself.
2) There are sidewalks in our community that sit 10 feet away from the road.
3) The street itself is about 23 feet wide and does permit street parking on both sides.
4) There is an elementary school walking distance from our neighborhood. Due to its close proximity, our neighborhood is in a transportation exclusion zone meaning that there's no bus service to that specific elementary school. Most students walk or ride their bike to school as it's only a 5-10 minute walk. The school sits on a 35mph street and that street has a 20mph school zone, but once students cross that street and enter our neighborhood the school zone no longer applies. Three months ago an 8-year-old was hit by a car trying to cross the street in that school zone (he was ok).
5) There are roughly 1,000 vehicles that travel past our house on our street each day. This was confirmed by previous data collection efforts by the local police department. The county engineer also provided information that suggests that each house will create 10 vehicle routes per day, and that lines up with the previous data collection measuring traffic.
6) We have a neighborhood HOA, though the streets are public streets. The HOA is useless in this matter. It's like George Costanza describing Kruger Industrial Smoothing: "we don't care, and it shows."
7) We also have a neighborhood social media presence. There are always reminders and/or people begging for other residents to slow down. It falls on deaf ears and has no discernible positive impact.
Twice previously I have asked the local police department for assistance on reducing speeding on our street. Each time they placed a "your speed" calming device that alerted drivers to their speed and collected data. The device would sit out there for a week, and during that week most people tended to behave better (i.e. the calming device was doing its job). The police department would analyze the data and say "outside of outliers, it's not too bad." They'd remove calming device and not soon after removing the calming device the excessive speeding would resume.
More recently, though, a group of neighbors and myself have now escalated this all the way to the top government officials in our local area. Due to this, it has also made its way to the chief of police in our local area. They have recently installed a data collection speed box for both directions, except this time the device is operating in "stealth" mode. What I mean is, the signs and collection boxes are there, but visibly it doesn't display anything. For drivers going by, the signs give the perception that they are turned off. But it is discreetly collecting data as drivers zoom by, and yes, they are indeed zooming by.
Of course, what is my definition of excessive speeding? It's admittedly subjective. I'm not really worried about people going 27 or 28mph. But the calming devices installed during the previous bandaid attempts to slow people down would clock at upwards of 35-40+ mph. You can feel those cars driving by. That same type of "feel" is what we see/feel regularly when the devices are removed. The fastest I saw was 59mph.
So this long-winded description brings me to some questions ...
Assuming the police department and local government will now finally see the issue by collecting data discreetly, what are some possible and/or reasonable long-term speed reduction strategies that we could suggest when discussing the data?
Speed bumps? Through hearsay, I've heard that the local government really doesn't want this but I've yet to confirm. The county engineer has told me that the driveways are mostly too close together to install "speed humps" on our street.
Permanent "your speed" calming devices?
Cameras that send out speed notices? I'm pretty sure they cannot set cameras up to provide actual violations.
Other?
I will end with this: the only solution I've ever seen that really slows people down is when the street is lined with parked cars. But while we do have some parked cars, there usually are not many. The first two "your speed" calming devices put out was actually a sign on a trailer parked in the street, which effectively acted like a parked car. The current signs, collecting data discreetly, are hanging from poles in the grass.
I live on a residential street with a 25mph speed limit. The specific street I live in is not a "cut-through" for main streets - it just dead ends into various cul-de-sacs, however, it is an artery within our neighborhood that feeds into roughly 100 additional homes beyond our home. Our stretch of road in question is about 1/4 mile long and is a straightaway. Sad to say, whoever designed our street couldn't have done a better job designing a dragstrip raceway. And that's how (too) many people treat it.
A few pertinent stats on our neighborhood:
1) The front porch of most houses sit only about 45 feet away from the road itself.
2) There are sidewalks in our community that sit 10 feet away from the road.
3) The street itself is about 23 feet wide and does permit street parking on both sides.
4) There is an elementary school walking distance from our neighborhood. Due to its close proximity, our neighborhood is in a transportation exclusion zone meaning that there's no bus service to that specific elementary school. Most students walk or ride their bike to school as it's only a 5-10 minute walk. The school sits on a 35mph street and that street has a 20mph school zone, but once students cross that street and enter our neighborhood the school zone no longer applies. Three months ago an 8-year-old was hit by a car trying to cross the street in that school zone (he was ok).
5) There are roughly 1,000 vehicles that travel past our house on our street each day. This was confirmed by previous data collection efforts by the local police department. The county engineer also provided information that suggests that each house will create 10 vehicle routes per day, and that lines up with the previous data collection measuring traffic.
6) We have a neighborhood HOA, though the streets are public streets. The HOA is useless in this matter. It's like George Costanza describing Kruger Industrial Smoothing: "we don't care, and it shows."
7) We also have a neighborhood social media presence. There are always reminders and/or people begging for other residents to slow down. It falls on deaf ears and has no discernible positive impact.
Twice previously I have asked the local police department for assistance on reducing speeding on our street. Each time they placed a "your speed" calming device that alerted drivers to their speed and collected data. The device would sit out there for a week, and during that week most people tended to behave better (i.e. the calming device was doing its job). The police department would analyze the data and say "outside of outliers, it's not too bad." They'd remove calming device and not soon after removing the calming device the excessive speeding would resume.
More recently, though, a group of neighbors and myself have now escalated this all the way to the top government officials in our local area. Due to this, it has also made its way to the chief of police in our local area. They have recently installed a data collection speed box for both directions, except this time the device is operating in "stealth" mode. What I mean is, the signs and collection boxes are there, but visibly it doesn't display anything. For drivers going by, the signs give the perception that they are turned off. But it is discreetly collecting data as drivers zoom by, and yes, they are indeed zooming by.
Of course, what is my definition of excessive speeding? It's admittedly subjective. I'm not really worried about people going 27 or 28mph. But the calming devices installed during the previous bandaid attempts to slow people down would clock at upwards of 35-40+ mph. You can feel those cars driving by. That same type of "feel" is what we see/feel regularly when the devices are removed. The fastest I saw was 59mph.
So this long-winded description brings me to some questions ...
Assuming the police department and local government will now finally see the issue by collecting data discreetly, what are some possible and/or reasonable long-term speed reduction strategies that we could suggest when discussing the data?
Speed bumps? Through hearsay, I've heard that the local government really doesn't want this but I've yet to confirm. The county engineer has told me that the driveways are mostly too close together to install "speed humps" on our street.
Permanent "your speed" calming devices?
Cameras that send out speed notices? I'm pretty sure they cannot set cameras up to provide actual violations.
Other?
I will end with this: the only solution I've ever seen that really slows people down is when the street is lined with parked cars. But while we do have some parked cars, there usually are not many. The first two "your speed" calming devices put out was actually a sign on a trailer parked in the street, which effectively acted like a parked car. The current signs, collecting data discreetly, are hanging from poles in the grass.
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
Ask the police what has worked in that area - they would be the only ones that would know.Johnny Thinwallet wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 2:34 pm Before I get into the details here, I do want to acknowledge that I know different local jurisdictions would handle this situation in vastly different ways. I also want to share that I've already begun working with local officials on this (more on this below). All that said, I'm really looking for some ideas here on how to permanently solve an ongoing issue with speeding on our residential street. I'm also fully aware that this is an issue almost everywhere and that our neighborhood is not unique with this problem.
I live on a residential street with a 25mph speed limit. The specific street I live in is not a "cut-through" for main streets - it just dead ends into various cul-de-sacs, however, it is an artery within our neighborhood that feeds into roughly 100 additional homes beyond our home. Our stretch of road in question is about 1/4 mile long and is a straightaway. Sad to say, whoever designed our street couldn't have done a better job designing a dragstrip raceway. And that's how (too) many people treat it.
A few pertinent stats on our neighborhood:
1) The front porch of most houses sit only about 45 feet away from the road itself.
2) There are sidewalks in our community that sit 10 feet away from the road.
3) The street itself is about 23 feet wide and does permit street parking on both sides.
4) There is an elementary school walking distance from our neighborhood. Due to its close proximity, our neighborhood is in a transportation exclusion zone meaning that there's no bus service to that specific elementary school. Most students walk or ride their bike to school as it's only a 5-10 minute walk. The school sits on a 35mph street and that street has a 20mph school zone, but once students cross that street and enter our neighborhood the school zone no longer applies. Three months ago an 8-year-old was hit by a car trying to cross the street in that school zone (he was ok).
5) There are roughly 1,000 vehicles that travel past our house on our street each day. This was confirmed by previous data collection efforts by the local police department. The county engineer also provided information that suggests that each house will create 10 vehicle routes per day, and that lines up with the previous data collection measuring traffic.
6) We have a neighborhood HOA, though the streets are public streets. The HOA is useless in this matter. It's like George Costanza describing Kruger Industrial Smoothing: "we don't care, and it shows."
7) We also have a neighborhood social media presence. There are always reminders and/or people begging for other residents to slow down. It falls on deaf ears and has no discernible positive impact.
Twice previously I have asked the local police department for assistance on reducing speeding on our street. Each time they placed a "your speed" calming device that alerted drivers to their speed and collected data. The device would sit out there for a week, and during that week most people tended to behave better (i.e. the calming device was doing its job). The police department would analyze the data and say "outside of outliers, it's not too bad." They'd remove calming device and not soon after removing the calming device the excessive speeding would resume.
More recently, though, a group of neighbors and myself have now escalated this all the way to the top government officials in our local area. Due to this, it has also made its way to the chief of police in our local area. They have recently installed a data collection speed box for both directions, except this time the device is operating in "stealth" mode. What I mean is, the signs and collection boxes are there, but visibly it doesn't display anything. For drivers going by, the signs give the perception that they are turned off. But it is discreetly collecting data as drivers zoom by, and yes, they are indeed zooming by.
Of course, what is my definition of excessive speeding? It's admittedly subjective. I'm not really worried about people going 27 or 28mph. But the calming devices installed during the previous bandaid attempts to slow people down would clock at upwards of 35-40+ mph. You can feel those cars driving by. That same type of "feel" is what we see/feel regularly when the devices are removed. The fastest I saw was 59mph.
So this long-winded description brings me to some questions ...
Assuming the police department and local government will now finally see the issue by collecting data discreetly, what are some possible and/or reasonable long-term speed reduction strategies that we could suggest when discussing the data?
Speed bumps? Through hearsay, I've heard that the local government really doesn't want this but I've yet to confirm. The county engineer has told me that the driveways are mostly too close together to install "speed humps" on our street.
Permanent "your speed" calming devices?
Cameras that send out speed notices? I'm pretty sure they cannot set cameras up to provide actual violations.
Other?
I will end with this: the only solution I've ever seen that really slows people down is when the street is lined with parked cars. But while we do have some parked cars, there usually are not many. The first two "your speed" calming devices put out was actually a sign on a trailer parked in the street, which effectively acted like a parked car. The current signs, collecting data discreetly, are hanging from poles in the grass.
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
Speed bumps are the only rational thing that will work, but even the people that go the speed limit will hate them.
Vanguard/Fidelity | 76% US Stock | 16% Int'l Stock | 8% Cash
-
- Posts: 18461
- Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:05 am
- Location: 26 miles, 385 yards west of Copley Square
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
From your description, cars parked on the street slows cars. Park your car on the street and encourage neighbors to do the same.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
can the police impound cars in addition to writing tickets?
word would get around fast.
word would get around fast.
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
+1 Agreed. Some speed bumps go curb to curb and others have have strategic drive-through spots for slower drivers. Additionally make all intersections 3-way and 4-way stops, including cul-de-sac entrances. More stop signs can be a revenue generator due to the ticketing potential for the city.
Have the police park a squad car with a mannequin on your block from time-to-time.
Last edited by 123 on Fri May 19, 2023 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
This is a really frustrating situation to be in, I know from first hand experience. Does your city/municipality have a traffic engineer on staff?
My layman understanding is exactly in line wit your observations so far - that the best way to reduce speed is to narrow the lanes, even painted lines will do but big objects like trees, cars, or bollards are best; and add curves or other obstacles to avoid. Isolated speed bumps don't do much except annoy people.
Have you connected with any state or national Safer Streets initiatives? They can have tons of examples of how cities have calmed traffic. On the other end modern traffic design theory has embraced designing traffic calming into the roads
for example here is a list of urban traffic calming measures. Note that speed bumps are kind of on this list BUT the trick is to place the speed hump as a raised crosswalk. This highlights pedestrian safety and slows traffic where it's most critical.
My layman understanding is exactly in line wit your observations so far - that the best way to reduce speed is to narrow the lanes, even painted lines will do but big objects like trees, cars, or bollards are best; and add curves or other obstacles to avoid. Isolated speed bumps don't do much except annoy people.
Have you connected with any state or national Safer Streets initiatives? They can have tons of examples of how cities have calmed traffic. On the other end modern traffic design theory has embraced designing traffic calming into the roads
for example here is a list of urban traffic calming measures. Note that speed bumps are kind of on this list BUT the trick is to place the speed hump as a raised crosswalk. This highlights pedestrian safety and slows traffic where it's most critical.
Last edited by muddgirl on Fri May 19, 2023 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
Bike lanes.
No matter how long the hill, if you keep pedaling you'll eventually get up to the top.
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
This is the answer. It's called a "road diet" and there's substantial evidence that driver speed is almost entirely based on lane width and apparent visibility. See https://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/Engineering ... -Diets.pdfJack FFR1846 wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 3:16 pm From your description, cars parked on the street slows cars. Park your car on the street and encourage neighbors to do the same.
You can imitate this by parking large vehicles on the street, but it can be professionally done in various ways.
-
- Posts: 436
- Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:20 pm
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
You've hit on the real problem here, which is that the street is too wide. Look at Europe -- they design the streets appropriately narrow so that the desire to speed is eliminated. In the U.S. we make these wide, drag strip type streets. Get the neighbors to pool their money, buy two old and wide cars, and park them on opposite sides of the street. Repeat at appropriate intervals.Johnny Thinwallet wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 2:34 pm I will end with this: the only solution I've ever seen that really slows people down is when the street is lined with parked cars. But while we do have some parked cars, there usually are not many. The first two "your speed" calming devices put out was actually a sign on a trailer parked in the street, which effectively acted like a parked car. The current signs, collecting data discreetly, are hanging from poles in the grass.
-
- Posts: 3314
- Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:17 am
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
Regarding speed bumps, my understanding is that Fire and Ambulance drivers hate them, and their departments are often the ones that veto the installation of them.
Most experiences are better imagined.
- Doom&Gloom
- Posts: 5398
- Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:36 pm
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
Geese.
They are quite effective on our through road when they decide to cross--or in a position that they might.
Terrible in the yard though. I'd prefer speeders.
Aside from speed bumps, which I hate with a passion, I would pursue aggressive ticketing by cops. With that many residents, I would think that you guys might have some sway. That worked quite well on our road when the cops were doing it. Now they leave it up to the geese and drivers' good nature.
They are quite effective on our through road when they decide to cross--or in a position that they might.
Terrible in the yard though. I'd prefer speeders.
Aside from speed bumps, which I hate with a passion, I would pursue aggressive ticketing by cops. With that many residents, I would think that you guys might have some sway. That worked quite well on our road when the cops were doing it. Now they leave it up to the geese and drivers' good nature.
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
My town is full of speed tables. Eventually, one tries to use the few streets that don’t have speed tables.
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
Ah, finally a topic along the lines of my job! Speed is critical- I forget the exact numbers but pedestrian fatalities occur about 10% of the time with a crash at 25mph, then escalate to like 60%+ at 40mph.
Someone above nailed it with narrowing of the roadway. A road diet is ideal, but there are several lesser versions of a road diet you can implement. You can install chicanes (a shorter narrowing, or adding a bend in the road). You can provide curb bump outs at intersections. This has the added benefit of narrowing the crossing length.
Paint also will visually narrow the road and is much cheaper. You can add a bike lane or parking lane. High visibility continental crosswalks make peds more visible.
In conjunction with your town or HOA, you can do a pilot test with temporary paint or chalk to see if things improve. This might also be called a demonstration project or tactical urbanism.
Are you sure about your width measurement? 23 is already pretty narrow, especially with parking. Ideal travel lanes are 11 ft. Bike lane should be at 5ft min. Parking lane is 8 ft.
Speed bumps are generally universally disliked. Particularly with the houses so close to the street, there will be a lot of acceleration noise. You can consider a speed table/raised intersection where you have intersections, those are not as offensive.
Happy to answer questions if anything is unclear.
Someone above nailed it with narrowing of the roadway. A road diet is ideal, but there are several lesser versions of a road diet you can implement. You can install chicanes (a shorter narrowing, or adding a bend in the road). You can provide curb bump outs at intersections. This has the added benefit of narrowing the crossing length.
Paint also will visually narrow the road and is much cheaper. You can add a bike lane or parking lane. High visibility continental crosswalks make peds more visible.
In conjunction with your town or HOA, you can do a pilot test with temporary paint or chalk to see if things improve. This might also be called a demonstration project or tactical urbanism.
Are you sure about your width measurement? 23 is already pretty narrow, especially with parking. Ideal travel lanes are 11 ft. Bike lane should be at 5ft min. Parking lane is 8 ft.
Speed bumps are generally universally disliked. Particularly with the houses so close to the street, there will be a lot of acceleration noise. You can consider a speed table/raised intersection where you have intersections, those are not as offensive.
Happy to answer questions if anything is unclear.
-
- Posts: 102
- Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:48 am
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
Speed humps, not bumps. Effective and less objectionable than bumps.
-
- Posts: 25617
- Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:20 pm
- Location: New York
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
1. Ungraded roadway - use a pavement stripper to remove the asphalt leaving deep grooves instead
2. Raised asphalt barriers or bumps every 100 feet or 50 feet.
3. Cameras with a flash - automatic fine/penalty of $125 and a date with local judge for first infraction. 2nd infraction the fine doubles - that would require a town council to pass a resolution deeming it a violation of local ordinance.
4. The local police can install a flashing speedometer that posts the speed as you approach it and an adjacent road construction big orange box that says SLOW DOWN!!! Excessive speed!! In big orange illuminated letters.
(That’s what they do in my town and it works!!)
2. Raised asphalt barriers or bumps every 100 feet or 50 feet.
3. Cameras with a flash - automatic fine/penalty of $125 and a date with local judge for first infraction. 2nd infraction the fine doubles - that would require a town council to pass a resolution deeming it a violation of local ordinance.
4. The local police can install a flashing speedometer that posts the speed as you approach it and an adjacent road construction big orange box that says SLOW DOWN!!! Excessive speed!! In big orange illuminated letters.
(That’s what they do in my town and it works!!)
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
-
- Posts: 18461
- Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:05 am
- Location: 26 miles, 385 yards west of Copley Square
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
The Connecticut State Police used to do this on Rt 91. A fraternity broke into the police car and took the mannequin, duct taped it's mouth shut and tied it to a chair. They then took a picture and sent it to the State Police with a ransom note. I believe they also sent it to the media as I heard it on the radio around New Haven right after it happened.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
As someone who hates speed bumps because they jar my spine around, even at low speeds, I freakin' love speed tables as an alternative - the kind with the flat tops. They slow you down but without the nasty effects on your axles and your personage.
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
Speed tables are much more expensive.
Vanguard/Fidelity | 76% US Stock | 16% Int'l Stock | 8% Cash
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
Several great ideas in this post.123 wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 3:28 pm+1 Agreed. Some speed bumps go curb to curb and others have have strategic drive-through spots for slower drivers. Additionally make all intersections 3-way and 4-way stops, including cul-de-sac entrances. More stop signs can be a revenue generator due to the ticketing potential for the city.
Have the police park a squad car with a mannequin on your block from time-to-time.
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
-
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 5:27 pm
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
I'm on a committee in my neighborhood for this very issue.
Speed humps help, there are also speed trenches which I was told the fire department favors and then bump outs that narrow the road. Bike Lanes do not slow people down in our neighborhood. People often drive part way in the bike lane and some actually use the bike lane as a passing lane!! Good luck.
TG
Speed humps help, there are also speed trenches which I was told the fire department favors and then bump outs that narrow the road. Bike Lanes do not slow people down in our neighborhood. People often drive part way in the bike lane and some actually use the bike lane as a passing lane!! Good luck.
TG
-
- Posts: 349
- Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2021 4:02 am
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
I'd worry about kids darting out from between them and getting hit. I wouldn't want to reduce driver's visibility to kids because even someone driving the speed limit might not have time to react.Jack FFR1846 wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 3:16 pm From your description, cars parked on the street slows cars. Park your car on the street and encourage neighbors to do the same.
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
I'd move, that's our number 1 criteria, not on a busy street. I've scoped out houses I was interested in during rush hour, lunch to see how busy the streets are, before submitting an offer, look at the city plans for what can be built out further..etc.
Last edited by Kagord on Sat May 20, 2023 4:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
Stop signs slow people down too (if there are even minor intersections along the 1/4 mile stretch of any type).
Likely lower cost than speed bumps, and may be easier to get approved by your municipality.
Have the city do a speed survey. Data helps. That may help sway the local government to take action if there hasn't been accidents or injuries yet.
Likely lower cost than speed bumps, and may be easier to get approved by your municipality.
Have the city do a speed survey. Data helps. That may help sway the local government to take action if there hasn't been accidents or injuries yet.
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
Hi.
If you're saying it's a pretty wide street and a straightaway and 25mph limit and these speed demons are racing by at 35-40 mph... I'd say 35 mph really isn't that fast, particularly on a straight wide road. 40 maybe a little fast? If it were a narrow curving tortuous street 35 might be fast but ... if it's really a wide straight road with no cars parked on it 25 will feel like a snail and 35 probably feels more appropriate. I'd consider asking your neighbors if they get the sense it is a drag strip. It might be others don't have the same sense of danger. My two cents, writing as a fast driver.
If you're saying it's a pretty wide street and a straightaway and 25mph limit and these speed demons are racing by at 35-40 mph... I'd say 35 mph really isn't that fast, particularly on a straight wide road. 40 maybe a little fast? If it were a narrow curving tortuous street 35 might be fast but ... if it's really a wide straight road with no cars parked on it 25 will feel like a snail and 35 probably feels more appropriate. I'd consider asking your neighbors if they get the sense it is a drag strip. It might be others don't have the same sense of danger. My two cents, writing as a fast driver.
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
The neighborhood sounds like countless other subdivisions in the suburbs, where the main offenders are the neighborhood's residents. "Road diet" is the best solution. Your street is already fairly narrow. Additional narrowing can be accomplished through painting bike lanes, striping the center line, asking for small concrete bump-outs at intersections. Painting is the lowest-cost solution, bump-outs aren't too expensive. Stop signs at every intersection will lead to a lot of squeaking brakes, burnouts and additional vehicle exhaust and may not be justified if the cross streets contribute far fewer vehicles than the Main Street.
Speed bumps will reduce the life of your vehicle's suspension and slow emergency vehicles trying to respond.
Your state will likely have a transportation "bible" that your local public works department will refer to when asked about additional stop signs and other measures. They will want to keep costs low, and fortunately painting is a fairly low-cost solution.
Or, you and your neighbors can jackhammer a few potholes in the road and that would slow things.
Speed bumps will reduce the life of your vehicle's suspension and slow emergency vehicles trying to respond.
Your state will likely have a transportation "bible" that your local public works department will refer to when asked about additional stop signs and other measures. They will want to keep costs low, and fortunately painting is a fairly low-cost solution.
Or, you and your neighbors can jackhammer a few potholes in the road and that would slow things.
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
I have heard that painting crosswalks like this can be effective in slowing down traffic when people are not expecting them but I suspect that people would get used to them.
I don't remember all the details but years ago we had a problem with the driving of a teenager on our street. We were talking with a police officer about this and one of the things that we suggested was that if there was a future problem when there was a kid outside to make sure that the police knew so that they might be able to give them a ticket for reckless endangerment instead of just speeding. That came with a larger fine and more points but importantly it would often result in their car insurance being canceled and possibly preventing them from driving since insurance companies consider reckless endangerment to be about as bad as drunk driving.
That might vary by state and I do not know how that might fit into your plans but it might be something to keep in mind.
In our case the police officer went to the teenagers house and talked with them and possibly the parent. I don't know what he said but we did not have any more problems with that teenager.
I don't remember all the details but years ago we had a problem with the driving of a teenager on our street. We were talking with a police officer about this and one of the things that we suggested was that if there was a future problem when there was a kid outside to make sure that the police knew so that they might be able to give them a ticket for reckless endangerment instead of just speeding. That came with a larger fine and more points but importantly it would often result in their car insurance being canceled and possibly preventing them from driving since insurance companies consider reckless endangerment to be about as bad as drunk driving.
That might vary by state and I do not know how that might fit into your plans but it might be something to keep in mind.
In our case the police officer went to the teenagers house and talked with them and possibly the parent. I don't know what he said but we did not have any more problems with that teenager.
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
Since these are neighbors, that would work the first time.Watty wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 6:58 pm I have heard that painting crosswalks like this can be effective in slowing down traffic when people are not expecting them but I suspect that people would get used to them.
I don't remember all the details but years ago we had a problem with the driving of a teenager on our street. We were talking with a police officer about this and one of the things that we suggested was that if there was a future problem when there was a kid outside that they might be able to give them a ticket for reckless endangerment instead of just speeding. That came with a larger fine and more points but importantly it would often result in their car insurance being canceled and possibly preventing them from driving since insurance companies consider reckless endangerment to be about as bad as drunk driving.
That might vary by state and I do not know how that might fit into your plans but it might be something to keep in mind.
In our case the police officer went to the teenagers house and talked with them and possibly the parent. I don't know what he said but we did not have any more problems with that teenager.
Vanguard/Fidelity | 76% US Stock | 16% Int'l Stock | 8% Cash
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
Look to Europe
Old fart who does three index stock funds, baby.
- StewedCarrot
- Posts: 272
- Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:34 pm
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
OP, road, diet and chicanes as others have suggested.
You may also want to read Confessions of a Recovering Engineer.
Good luck, stay at it!
You may also want to read Confessions of a Recovering Engineer.
Good luck, stay at it!
-
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:07 pm
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
Lots of great replies - thanks to all! I'll try to address several, but first wanted to highlight shorty's post below.
My instinct here is that the police department will look at the dataset they're currently collecting and ultimately conclude that interventions are not worth the effort. I base this educated guess off two reasons, 1) the HOA has said they've tried in the past - unsuccessfully - to address speeding and got nowhere (that's their primary reason now for throwing their hands up ala we've been down that road and it's a waste of our time). And 2), the officer who's helped in the past has been candid with me in explaining that the local jurisdiction really doesn't want to do anything proactively. Rather, they will wait until something bad happens.
Meanwhile they are collecting speed data now so I figure I have one shot to build a case that the speeders they are seeing is worth the effort to proactively implement a long-term solution. The data may very well suggest that 75 percent of drivers are driving an appropriate speed. My argument would be that the 25 percent going excessively fast is too far too many.
Regarding the street measurement, that's a rudimentary google earth measurement I took. I suppose I can walk out this weekend with a tape measure ... and try my best not to get hit by someone doing 40mph. But I'd say the margin of error with that 23 foot measurement is within a foot or two.
This is the type of data and stats in your first sentence that is really, really helpful. Do you know of any studies I can point to that highlight those numbers?shorty313 wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 4:04 pm Ah, finally a topic along the lines of my job! Speed is critical- I forget the exact numbers but pedestrian fatalities occur about 10% of the time with a crash at 25mph, then escalate to like 60%+ at 40mph.
Someone above nailed it with narrowing of the roadway. A road diet is ideal, but there are several lesser versions of a road diet you can implement. You can install chicanes (a shorter narrowing, or adding a bend in the road). You can provide curb bump outs at intersections. This has the added benefit of narrowing the crossing length.
Paint also will visually narrow the road and is much cheaper. You can add a bike lane or parking lane. High visibility continental crosswalks make peds more visible.
In conjunction with your town or HOA, you can do a pilot test with temporary paint or chalk to see if things improve. This might also be called a demonstration project or tactical urbanism.
Are you sure about your width measurement? 23 is already pretty narrow, especially with parking. Ideal travel lanes are 11 ft. Bike lane should be at 5ft min. Parking lane is 8 ft.
Speed bumps are generally universally disliked. Particularly with the houses so close to the street, there will be a lot of acceleration noise. You can consider a speed table/raised intersection where you have intersections, those are not as offensive.
Happy to answer questions if anything is unclear.
My instinct here is that the police department will look at the dataset they're currently collecting and ultimately conclude that interventions are not worth the effort. I base this educated guess off two reasons, 1) the HOA has said they've tried in the past - unsuccessfully - to address speeding and got nowhere (that's their primary reason now for throwing their hands up ala we've been down that road and it's a waste of our time). And 2), the officer who's helped in the past has been candid with me in explaining that the local jurisdiction really doesn't want to do anything proactively. Rather, they will wait until something bad happens.
Meanwhile they are collecting speed data now so I figure I have one shot to build a case that the speeders they are seeing is worth the effort to proactively implement a long-term solution. The data may very well suggest that 75 percent of drivers are driving an appropriate speed. My argument would be that the 25 percent going excessively fast is too far too many.
Regarding the street measurement, that's a rudimentary google earth measurement I took. I suppose I can walk out this weekend with a tape measure ... and try my best not to get hit by someone doing 40mph. But I'd say the margin of error with that 23 foot measurement is within a foot or two.
-
- Posts: 436
- Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:20 pm
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
The point that it's your neighbors who are the speeders is an important one. Are you sure your neighbors support your endeavors? If they really cared, they'd already be driving more slowly...
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
Raised pavement/lane markers can make the driving lane significantly appear narrower. A main issue for them is dealing with snowplows if they're in use in your area..
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.
-
- Posts: 1134
- Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:52 pm
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
I'd try to get a meeting with chief of police. Maybe someone you know knows someone, etc. Ask them to post a motorcycle officer at a strategic location and start issuing tickets. Saw that I'm my street ---- came a day or two a month for a few months and worked pretty well.
Installing a couple stops signs could help too.
Installing a couple stops signs could help too.
An important key to investing is having a well-calibrated sense of your future regret.
-
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:07 pm
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
We are the (rare) family that actually uses our garage for our cars. We have a two car garage, and both cars go in the garage. And one of our cars was just bought last fall and doesn't even have 2k miles on it so I'd like to keep it in nice shape.Jack FFR1846 wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 3:16 pm From your description, cars parked on the street slows cars. Park your car on the street and encourage neighbors to do the same.
That said, it takes a lot of cars to make a difference. We usually see it only when someone has a gathering. We had 3 cars for about a month last fall, and I did park the 3rd car on the street until I sold it. Subjectively, there wasn't much difference.
I've joked with my wife that I should go out and buy a dozen beater cars and park all of them on the street, just to bottle things up. I could go out and start them up randomly, driving back toward the neighbors who are speeding. Maybe make sure they all are need of new exhaust systems too. That'd certainly get noticed.
I've talked with the county engineer and asked about speed humps. They told me that the driveways are too close together because ultimately part of the hump would be right off someone's driveway.muddgirl wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 3:31 pm This is a really frustrating situation to be in, I know from first hand experience. Does your city/municipality have a traffic engineer on staff?
My layman understanding is exactly in line wit your observations so far - that the best way to reduce speed is to narrow the lanes, even painted lines will do but big objects like trees, cars, or bollards are best; and add curves or other obstacles to avoid. Isolated speed bumps don't do much except annoy people.
Have you connected with any state or national Safer Streets initiatives? They can have tons of examples of how cities have calmed traffic. On the other end modern traffic design theory has embraced designing traffic calming into the roads
for example here is a list of urban traffic calming measures. Note that speed bumps are kind of on this list BUT the trick is to place the speed hump as a raised crosswalk. This highlights pedestrian safety and slows traffic where it's most critical.
I'll have to look up the Safer Streets initiatives. The interesting thing here is this is very much a suburban residential street. It's not an urban street, or even an urban residential street. All the houses were built in the last 20 years. Previously the land was farmland that was eventually bought out by a developer, They plotted the land, planned a residential neighborhood and then got to work building houses.
So I'm not the only one who's thought of the idea to buy a bunch of beaters to park on the street!simplextableau wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 3:39 pmYou've hit on the real problem here, which is that the street is too wide. Look at Europe -- they design the streets appropriately narrow so that the desire to speed is eliminated. In the U.S. we make these wide, drag strip type streets. Get the neighbors to pool their money, buy two old and wide cars, and park them on opposite sides of the street. Repeat at appropriate intervals.Johnny Thinwallet wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 2:34 pm I will end with this: the only solution I've ever seen that really slows people down is when the street is lined with parked cars. But while we do have some parked cars, there usually are not many. The first two "your speed" calming devices put out was actually a sign on a trailer parked in the street, which effectively acted like a parked car. The current signs, collecting data discreetly, are hanging from poles in the grass.
I've unofficially heard this too. We have a neighbor in another part of our neighborhood who is also frustrated with speeding on his street. He's a firefighter in a neighboring community. He was looking into research a few months ago on how fire and EMS deals with speed bumps, and this is a reminder that I need to reach back out to him.Random Poster wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 3:42 pm Regarding speed bumps, my understanding is that Fire and Ambulance drivers hate them, and their departments are often the ones that veto the installation of them.
Plenty of geese here, unfortunately, though fortunately for us they hang around the houses near the retention ponds.Doom&Gloom wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 3:44 pm Geese.
They are quite effective on our through road when they decide to cross--or in a position that they might.
Terrible in the yard though. I'd prefer speeders.
Aside from speed bumps, which I hate with a passion, I would pursue aggressive ticketing by cops. With that many residents, I would think that you guys might have some sway. That worked quite well on our road when the cops were doing it. Now they leave it up to the geese and drivers' good nature.
Once the police department has their data, I might request for some aggressive ticketing and/or speed trap. Set an example, hit some wallets. It'd temporarily help. If they'd be willing to do it enough over time, it might change some behavior.
Those flashing speedometers are the traffic calming signs. That's what they've put up twice previously for a week when I previously reached out. It worked enough. I don't know what it would take to install those permanently though.Grt2bOutdoors wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 4:16 pm 1. Ungraded roadway - use a pavement stripper to remove the asphalt leaving deep grooves instead
2. Raised asphalt barriers or bumps every 100 feet or 50 feet.
3. Cameras with a flash - automatic fine/penalty of $125 and a date with local judge for first infraction. 2nd infraction the fine doubles - that would require a town council to pass a resolution deeming it a violation of local ordinance.
4. The local police can install a flashing speedometer that posts the speed as you approach it and an adjacent road construction big orange box that says SLOW DOWN!!! Excessive speed!! In big orange illuminated letters.
(That’s what they do in my town and it works!!)
Will definitely look into speed trenches and see if that might get some attention!TheGiantess wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 5:03 pm I'm on a committee in my neighborhood for this very issue.
Speed humps help, there are also speed trenches which I was told the fire department favors and then bump outs that narrow the road. Bike Lanes do not slow people down in our neighborhood. People often drive part way in the bike lane and some actually use the bike lane as a passing lane!! Good luck.
TG
Great suggestions - thank you. Will definitely look into some road diet ideas I can throw their way as well.Galt guy wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 6:56 pm The neighborhood sounds like countless other subdivisions in the suburbs, where the main offenders are the neighborhood's residents. "Road diet" is the best solution. Your street is already fairly narrow. Additional narrowing can be accomplished through painting bike lanes, striping the center line, asking for small concrete bump-outs at intersections. Painting is the lowest-cost solution, bump-outs aren't too expensive. Stop signs at every intersection will lead to a lot of squeaking brakes, burnouts and additional vehicle exhaust and may not be justified if the cross streets contribute far fewer vehicles than the Main Street.
Speed bumps will reduce the life of your vehicle's suspension and slow emergency vehicles trying to respond.
Your state will likely have a transportation "bible" that your local public works department will refer to when asked about additional stop signs and other measures. They will want to keep costs low, and fortunately painting is a fairly low-cost solution.
Or, you and your neighbors can jackhammer a few potholes in the road and that would slow things.
I'm trying to prep for them to say "we don't want to do anything" and make them bat down several ideas. The officer who conducted the first two small studies said that the local officials want to avoid doing things that create a slippery slope (i.e. if they make changes in one neighborhood then all the other neighborhoods will come flooding in saying we want that done too).
The one unique factor I can push back on that slippery slope is that the elementary school we have nearby and the large contingent of kids walking. Our local jurisdiction has several elementary schools, but this is only one of two where a large majority of students are walkers. If they're willing to use the elementary school as a reason, that prevents the slippery slope with most other neighborhoods ... at least it does in my eyes.
-
- Posts: 1134
- Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:52 pm
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
In my previous neighborhood there was this old guy, maybe in his early 70's who had a heck of an arm. He was retired and worked in his yard a lot. He kept a stash of tennis balls out there where he was working. Somebody comes speeding down the street and he'd just whistle a tennis ball right at their car. More often than not he'd hit it. Some people would just drive on, some would stop and yell and he'd just give it right back to them. I never once saw it escalate to a physical confrontation. Had a modest impact I think, but he was legendary in the neighborhood.
These days, might be a little riskier. I think he got a little slack due to his age.
These days, might be a little riskier. I think he got a little slack due to his age.
Last edited by BernardShakey on Fri May 19, 2023 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
An important key to investing is having a well-calibrated sense of your future regret.
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
10mph speed bumps every 300 feet. They were put in our street and work great. Now folks drive 15-20mph.
- quantAndHold
- Posts: 10141
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:39 pm
- Location: West Coast
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
Wouldn’t making the streets safer in all the neighborhoods be a good thing, though?Johnny Thinwallet wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 9:02 pm I'm trying to prep for them to say "we don't want to do anything" and make them bat down several ideas. The officer who conducted the first two small studies said that the local officials want to avoid doing things that create a slippery slope (i.e. if they make changes in one neighborhood then all the other neighborhoods will come flooding in saying we want that done too).
I don’t know where you live or how big of a place it is, but how about running for city council on a safe streets platform?
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
Just move. None of this stuff is going to work. Or, it it does, it will rule your life.
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
Traffic calming is the subject of much debate. For many years, individual jurisdictions would impose a tactic and then someone would present it at a conference and 50 local engineers would be inclined to try that. After many ideas and millions of dollars nationwide, the feds finally brought together engineers to do some testing with adequate protocols. The result was the US Traffic Calming Manual. It continues to be updated as more data is turned into information.
For a lay version of current findings, check out https://highways.dot.gov/safety/speed-m ... ng-eprimer
Or find a copy of the manual. Based on your description so far, it looks like a chicane or lateral shift might be employed with a pretty low cost. There are lots of users on a road- cars, trucks, bikes, delivery vehicles and other who also have rights that should be considered when implementing things like speed bumps and humps. There are also things like snow plow trucks and road sealing and repaving costs to be considered.
There are no perfect solution as drivers learn to anticipate many of the techniques, there may be reversion. Knowing that most of the drivers on that street are local to the area gives one the chance to work on soft strategies as well. There is a limited and identifiable pool of people who make up the majority of drivers.
Good luck
For a lay version of current findings, check out https://highways.dot.gov/safety/speed-m ... ng-eprimer
Or find a copy of the manual. Based on your description so far, it looks like a chicane or lateral shift might be employed with a pretty low cost. There are lots of users on a road- cars, trucks, bikes, delivery vehicles and other who also have rights that should be considered when implementing things like speed bumps and humps. There are also things like snow plow trucks and road sealing and repaving costs to be considered.
There are no perfect solution as drivers learn to anticipate many of the techniques, there may be reversion. Knowing that most of the drivers on that street are local to the area gives one the chance to work on soft strategies as well. There is a limited and identifiable pool of people who make up the majority of drivers.
Good luck
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
One piece of the puzzle that I did not see (I did not read every comment) is accident data. How does the accident rate compare to similar settings? With limited resources, most local governments focus on areas with known threats to life and property.
When you said the road engineer created a perfect place to speed, if there are not incidents, there may not be an incentive for an expensive response.
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX
- black jack
- Posts: 806
- Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:13 pm
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
See figures and tables on pp. 9-11 of https://nacto.org/wp-content/uploads/20 ... sSpeed.pdfJohnny Thinwallet wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 8:41 pm Lots of great replies - thanks to all! I'll try to address several, but first wanted to highlight shorty's post below.
This is the type of data and stats in your first sentence that is really, really helpful. Do you know of any studies I can point to that highlight those numbers?
...
That's for your own information, and citation of sources (see also p. 12). No public official is likely to wade through the report. Search "vehicle speed and pedestrian injury" and look at the images; pick one of those to show people to make the point.
Someone mentioned speed cameras. Many states do not allow speed cameras, or greatly restrict their use (e.g., only in school zones and work zones). Even states that do allow them often require a 10mph cushion, so people could still go 35 on your 25 mph street without getting a ticket. Also, speed cameras have a limited area of effect; people usually slow down approaching one, then speed up after passing it.
Good point; most of your speeders are neighbors, and they're a small fraction of the neighborhood population. Identifying them, then having a heart-to-heart talk with them, could help; if not, up the dosage.WhyNotUs wrote:Knowing that most of the drivers on that street are local to the area gives one the chance to work on soft strategies as well. There is a limited and identifiable pool of people who make up the majority of speeders.
For identification, I (who have a similar problem, though my street IS a cut-through street) am tempted to use a paintball gun to mark speeding vehicles for future identification (so far I forbear, in light of the propensity for violence currently affecting our society). Perhaps a group of like-minded neighbors would take this on, with a lawn chair, a radar gun (some police departments will loan you one, or you can buy your own for about $110) and a camera.
Any engineers out there have an idea for a spike strip that would not harm car tires at 25 mph but would flatten those hitting it at 40 mph?
We cannot absolutely prove [that they are wrong who say] that we have seen our best days. But so said all who came before us, and with just as much apparent reason. |
-T. B. Macaulay (1800-1859)
-
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:12 am
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
I think the biggest risk to pedestrians and bicyclists is a distracted driver rather than a speeding driver and traffic calming measures do nothing to address this problem.
When I was a kid when you saw a car drifting back and forth from their lane, most of the time they were an intoxicated driver.
Nowadays, when you look at the driver in that car drifting back and forth they are texting or doing something on their phone.
Another observation I have made is that children play outside a lot less than when I was a kid, I used to ride my bicycle all over the place, I seldom see kids riding bikes or playing games in the street. I think kids like their parents are looking at electronic screens more and doing that inside their homes. From injury risk perspective, that means less risk to kids since they don't share the streets with drivers as much as in the past.
I have sold my car and experimented with walking to work recently, which has been eye opening for me.
On a busy street ,drivers often don't stop when I stand at the crosswalk ready to cross. When I cross a street with a signal and crosswalk, cars often stop at the red-light so they are blocking the crosswalk completely and I have to walk into the path of traffic to go around them. Drivers pulling out of apartment parking lots and strip malls block the sidewalk waiting to turn into the street and are only looking for an opening in the traffic, not looking for a pedestrian that might be approaching.
These behaviors of drivers are mentioned as further examples of unsafe behaviors of drivers not addressed with traffic calming measures.
When I have visited Europe, there are many more pedestrians and cyclists than I see in the US. As a result, perhaps the drivers in Europe have more awareness of pedestrians and cyclists.
In my opinion, having regulations to limit distracted drivers, like only hands free cell phone calls, no texting while driving, would have more safety impact than traffic calming measures. To have any impact, rules have to be enforced, I'm sure there are traffic speed limits on the street in question of the original poster, but probably little or no enforcement of this because of prioritization of police efforts to other activities, the same problem then would occur if people text and drive if there is no enforcement the behavior won't change.
When I was a kid when you saw a car drifting back and forth from their lane, most of the time they were an intoxicated driver.
Nowadays, when you look at the driver in that car drifting back and forth they are texting or doing something on their phone.
Another observation I have made is that children play outside a lot less than when I was a kid, I used to ride my bicycle all over the place, I seldom see kids riding bikes or playing games in the street. I think kids like their parents are looking at electronic screens more and doing that inside their homes. From injury risk perspective, that means less risk to kids since they don't share the streets with drivers as much as in the past.
I have sold my car and experimented with walking to work recently, which has been eye opening for me.
On a busy street ,drivers often don't stop when I stand at the crosswalk ready to cross. When I cross a street with a signal and crosswalk, cars often stop at the red-light so they are blocking the crosswalk completely and I have to walk into the path of traffic to go around them. Drivers pulling out of apartment parking lots and strip malls block the sidewalk waiting to turn into the street and are only looking for an opening in the traffic, not looking for a pedestrian that might be approaching.
These behaviors of drivers are mentioned as further examples of unsafe behaviors of drivers not addressed with traffic calming measures.
When I have visited Europe, there are many more pedestrians and cyclists than I see in the US. As a result, perhaps the drivers in Europe have more awareness of pedestrians and cyclists.
In my opinion, having regulations to limit distracted drivers, like only hands free cell phone calls, no texting while driving, would have more safety impact than traffic calming measures. To have any impact, rules have to be enforced, I'm sure there are traffic speed limits on the street in question of the original poster, but probably little or no enforcement of this because of prioritization of police efforts to other activities, the same problem then would occur if people text and drive if there is no enforcement the behavior won't change.
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
That can be very effective, if done periodically. Unfortunately, our department is short of officers, so traffic issues take a backseat.BernardShakey wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 8:59 pm I'd try to get a meeting with chief of police. Maybe someone you know knows someone, etc. Ask them to post a motorcycle officer at a strategic location and start issuing tickets. Saw that I'm my street ---- came a day or two a month for a few months and worked pretty well.
Installing a couple stops signs could help too.
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
Yes, throttling the road (making it narrow) will help.
1) I suggest collecting data.
Pick three days with heavy road usage.
Measure speeds when the road is not throttled.
Repeat with cars parked on the street.
2) Send the data to local police and government agents.
3) Publish the data on Facebook and any local community boards.
4) You may want to select a front man or woman for the group. Avoid preachy and crusty people. You want an average looking, plain-speaking moms or dads.
5) Bring the local police and government officials into the public conversation. Don't make them the enemy. You need them to be the problem solvers, not public enemies.
Good luck.
1) I suggest collecting data.
Pick three days with heavy road usage.
Measure speeds when the road is not throttled.
Repeat with cars parked on the street.
2) Send the data to local police and government agents.
3) Publish the data on Facebook and any local community boards.
4) You may want to select a front man or woman for the group. Avoid preachy and crusty people. You want an average looking, plain-speaking moms or dads.
5) Bring the local police and government officials into the public conversation. Don't make them the enemy. You need them to be the problem solvers, not public enemies.
Good luck.
- Shackleton
- Posts: 942
- Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 5:20 pm
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
I’m a firm believer that the traffic calming devices (permanently installed displaying your speed along with flashing blue/red lights if you are over the limit) really work. The small rural town I lived in had them at both ends of town (as did all other towns in the county) because the main Street through town was a rural highway with a speed of 65 between towns, but the limit through the towns was 25-35 depending on the town. Lots of people rushing through town on their way to the local national park — never slowing down at all (one of the most visited NPs in the country, but thankfully we were on the “backside” so got fewer people through than the “main side” entrance). Once they put those speed signs up, the difference was very noticeable. I’m convinced the flashing red/blue lights were especially effective as they really made you feel like a cop was watching.
“Superhuman effort isn't worth a damn unless it achieves results.” ~Ernest Shackleton
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
Instead of narrowing the whole road, perhaps an occasional road cutout, with a tree planted there.
Re: Strategies for Permanently Reducing Speeding on Residential Streets
Police won't do anything to resolve this. You need things that narrow the road or force drivers to adjust to changing conditions. It's the uniformly wide, straight street that contributes to the sense that it's ok to speed - in Swedish a speed table is called a "sleeping policeman" because it always works unlike the cop or warning device that is only there sometimes.
You need to know who owns the street. If it's the HOA, you may need to orchestrate a takeover of the board, because the Town can do relatively little about private roads unless there's a serious public safety (not annoyance) issue. In some jurisdictions this requires multiple pedestrian deaths to "prove" it before they feel they can intervene.
If it's the town, your local jurisdiction has a transportation board or a department that handles roads, & that's where I'd go next. Let them you know have a neighborhood in need of traffic calming. More effective if you get to know neighbors along other straight sections of road nearby that are having the same problem.
All of these solutions are slower.... But there's something you can start doing immediately that's very effective if you work with neighbors. Clutter the road. Promise each other to park on the street.... And park further from the curb. Start putting things in the street: basketball hoops, planters, lawn chairs. This is immediately effective, and you may be able to leverage inaction at HOA or Town level in your favor this way. But you need to get a group to start doing it at the same time.
My neighborhood has a stretch that folks like to cut through and they sometimes speed down the hill. We knocked 10mph off the average with one "awkwardly" placed basketball hoop and two parked cars, which create a "slalom" halfway.
You need to know who owns the street. If it's the HOA, you may need to orchestrate a takeover of the board, because the Town can do relatively little about private roads unless there's a serious public safety (not annoyance) issue. In some jurisdictions this requires multiple pedestrian deaths to "prove" it before they feel they can intervene.
If it's the town, your local jurisdiction has a transportation board or a department that handles roads, & that's where I'd go next. Let them you know have a neighborhood in need of traffic calming. More effective if you get to know neighbors along other straight sections of road nearby that are having the same problem.
All of these solutions are slower.... But there's something you can start doing immediately that's very effective if you work with neighbors. Clutter the road. Promise each other to park on the street.... And park further from the curb. Start putting things in the street: basketball hoops, planters, lawn chairs. This is immediately effective, and you may be able to leverage inaction at HOA or Town level in your favor this way. But you need to get a group to start doing it at the same time.
My neighborhood has a stretch that folks like to cut through and they sometimes speed down the hill. We knocked 10mph off the average with one "awkwardly" placed basketball hoop and two parked cars, which create a "slalom" halfway.