Help my niece choose a marketable college major

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fitawrari
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Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by fitawrari »

My niece got admitted to a few Cal State and UC schools and she decided to attend UC Santa Barbara.

I talked to her yesterday and she told me she is unclear about what she wants to study. She put psychology when she was filling out the application form but she is worried about job prospects for a psychology major. I brought up Psych D (doctorate) but she immediately responded by saying too much schooling.

She told me she is not into engineering, basic sciences or computer science.

Unfortunately UC Santa Barbara doesn't have business school as I think marketing would have been a good fit for her.

I suggested economics and, after explaining what it is and the type of jobs econ majors tend to get, she is open to it but not enthused about it. I am also not sure she will like the quantitative nature of economics.

She doesn't come from money (low wage immigrant parents) and she is keen on majoring in something that will get her a decent job right after graduation.

Please help.

Here is a link to the list of majors: https://my.sa.ucsb.edu/catalog/current/ ... elist.aspx
oldfatguy
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by oldfatguy »

No one else can possibly offer suggestions that would be relevant to your niece. She should work with the career services office on her campus to get help exploring her options, but it will need to be HER decision.
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lthenderson
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by lthenderson »

oldfatguy wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 8:43 am No one else can possibly offer suggestions that would be relevant to your niece. She should work with the career services office on her campus to get help exploring her options, but it will need to be HER decision.
+1 Great advice!
Mr. Buzzkill
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by Mr. Buzzkill »

fitawrari wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 8:39 am My niece got admitted to a few Cal State and UC schools and she decided to attend UC Santa Barbara.

I talked to her yesterday and she told me she is unclear about what she wants to study. She put psychology when she was filling out the application form but she is worried about job prospects for a psychology major. I brought up Psych D (doctorate) but she immediately responded by saying too much schooling.

She told me she is not into engineering, basic sciences or computer science.

Unfortunately UC Santa Barbara doesn't have business school as I think marketing would have been a good fit for her.

I suggested economics and, after explaining what it is and the type of jobs econ majors tend to get, she is open to it but not enthused about it. I am also not sure she will like the quantitative nature of economics.

She doesn't come from money (low wage immigrant parents) and she is keen on majoring in something that will get her a decent job right after graduation.

Please help.

Here is a link to the list of majors: https://my.sa.ucsb.edu/catalog/current/ ... elist.aspx
When I was graduating high school, I wasn’t sure what I wanted to do though I had interest and aptitude for both “marketable” and other majors.

I ended up by process of elimination after early survey and weed-out courses with something marketable but my summer internship experience doing real computer programming made me stand out as a job candidate in tech field compared to peers who did summer landscaping and lifeguard jobs.

An alternative that I wish I had more seriously considered was enlisting in the military or reserves or national guard between high school and college to mature, get my priorities in better order, and get GI Bill benefits or side income. Maybe ROTC for initial career path.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by KlangFool »

OP,

Any other major is better than psychology.

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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by alfaspider »

Rather than picking a major as the starting point, I would consider looking at career possibilities first and then picking a major that will help her get there. Majors don't earn money- careers do.

How flexible is the school on majors? If she can take a variety of classes freshman year (rather than declaring and concentrating on something right away), she might find something that she clicks with. I'd look especially for the types of classes that are typically not offered in high school that might jog her interest.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by bsteiner »

Many students change their intended majors in the first two years of college.

If she majors in psychology, she could become a psychologist, she could take the required science courses and go to medical school, she could go to law school, she could go to business school and get an MBA in marketing or finance, or she could end up doing any number of things.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by alfaspider »

bsteiner wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:14 am Many students change their intended majors in the first two years of college.

If she majors in psychology, she could become a psychologist, she could take the required science courses and go to medical school, she could go to law school, she could go to business school and get an MBA in marketing or finance, or she could end up doing any number of things.
Going back to my "think about a career" advice: the vast majority of undergraduate psychology majors do not ever practice psychology. If she does not want to go to medical school and become a psychiatrist or get a phd and become a clinical psychologst, then I think it would be helpful to better understand why she is attracted to the major in the first place.

For whatever reason psychology has become one of the most popular majors right now. I think some of it is that it's not as intimidating as sciences like physics and chemistry, but it is perceived as more "legitimate" (i.e. acceptible to parents and other adults in their life) than something like philosophy.
Last edited by alfaspider on Thu May 04, 2023 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
hunoraut
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by hunoraut »

the best thing you can do is introduce her to your acquaintances who work in various fields and have them give her "real life" advice so she can explore which appeals to her, and the direction to get there.

disclaimer being that i personally never used career "counselors" or advisors in high school or college, but i dont think imagine that a single-focus administrator/staff type person is adequately equipped or incentivized to provide high quality guidance.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by hammockhiker »

fitawrari wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 8:39 am My niece got admitted to a few Cal State and UC schools and she decided to attend UC Santa Barbara.

I talked to her yesterday and she told me she is unclear about what she wants to study.
---------snip----------
Since she's a freshman, her major right now is not important. In the next four years she'll have more than enough time to figure out what to major in. If "undecided" is an option, major in that to start with and use the time to drink widely from the fountain of knowledge. Her interests and abilities will tell her what to major in eventually. College guidance counselors will also work to steer her into an appropriate field of study as she works with them.

But it's still irrelevant to her job prospects. Using my own experience as illustration, I majored in English but spent most of my adult life working in industry, mostly in Quality Control but also in various lab-type settings. Anything I needed to learn for a position, I learned. Being educable is more important to most employers than being educated, in my n=1 experience.

Tell her not to stress about her major yet. If she has to declare something other than undecided, go for something as general as possible and work to narrow it down over the next year or two.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by hunoraut »

hammockhiker wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:26 am But it's still irrelevant to her job prospects. Using my own experience as illustration, I majored in English but spent most of my adult life working in industry, mostly in Quality Control but also in various lab-type settings. Anything I needed to learn for a position, I learned. Being educable is more important to most employers than being educated, in my n=1 experience.
Getting the right degree lands the first job by way of targeted recruitment, and is the biggest boost in starting ones career (which can very well change focus).

English majors can do well. In aggregate, they don't. So probabilistically, a person major in English won't. Being educable doesn't much change that realistic uphill battle.

Students should be encouraged to explore all the career possibilities early, before being consumed with the momentum of simply being in school...until they face graduation and its too late.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by mhc »

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/

This handbook has a lot of good information. It may be worthwhile to look through it.
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dmon
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by dmon »

fitawrari wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 8:39 am
Unfortunately UC Santa Barbara doesn't have business school as I think marketing would have been a good fit for her.
Communications, which UCSB does offer, can lead to a career in marketing.

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gatorking
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by gatorking »

College scorecard provides salary by major, if sufficient data is available. https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/ ... ta-Barbara

Bachelor's Degree: Median earnings 4 years after graduation
Research and Experimental Psychology: ~ 53k
Communication and Media Studies: ~ 61k
Economics: ~ 88k
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hand
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by hand »

Accounting or other subject with a clear hiring pathway into public accounting.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by KlangFool »

alfaspider wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:19 am
bsteiner wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:14 am Many students change their intended majors in the first two years of college.

If she majors in psychology, she could become a psychologist, she could take the required science courses and go to medical school, she could go to law school, she could go to business school and get an MBA in marketing or finance, or she could end up doing any number of things.
Going back to my "think about a career" advice: the vast majority of undergraduate psychology majors do not ever practice psychology. If she does not want to go to medical school and become a psychiatrist or get a phd and become a clinical psychologst, then I think it would be helpful to better understand why she is attracted to the major in the first place.

For whatever reason psychology has become one of the most popular majors right now. I think some of it is that it's not as intimidating as sciences like physics and chemistry, but it is perceived as more "legitimate" (i.e. acceptible to parents and other adults in their life) than something like philosophy.
A very simple reason. It's the easiest major to get a degree.

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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by barnaclebob »

A psychology degree is basically only useful for being able to get jobs that require any college degree which pay like 45k out of college.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by stoptothink »

bsteiner wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:14 am Many students change their intended majors in the first two years of college.

If she majors in psychology, she could become a psychologist, she could take the required science courses and go to medical school, she could go to law school, she could go to business school and get an MBA in marketing or finance, or she could end up doing any number of things.
My best friend has an undergrad in psychology, he went on to get his MBA at Wharton and is a successful banker. My first major was journalism :oops: That lasted about a semester before a professor (I believe it was a news writing course) flat out told me I had academic and writing potential, but there was almost no opportunity in the field they chose. I ended up double majoring in kinesiology and nutritional science, now have a PhD, and work as a scientist and program director in healthcare.

IMO, it's best to let young adults get a feel for college, develop and a little and figure it out on their own.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by the_wiki »

KlangFool wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:59 am

A very simple reason. It's the easiest major to get a degree.

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Most people just find it interesting. Coursework is not any easier than a business degree.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by user5027 »

Don't lose focus...

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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by CascadiaSoonish »

KlangFool wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:00 am OP,

Any other major is better than psychology.

KlangFool
Hard disagree. Understanding how the mind works is arguably going to be very marketable as automation and AI/ML creeps into every corner of business.
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quantAndHold
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by quantAndHold »

She should go in as undeclared, take classes in a number of areas, and then choose something she finds interesting. It’s hard for a high school kid to choose a major, because they haven’t really been exposed to enough to know what’s out there, and anyway, it doesn’t sound like she’s interested in any of the majors that need to be declared right away. Odds are, if she went in with a major declared, she would switch partway through anyway.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by Glockenspiel »

If she's going to major in psychology but doesn't want to get at least a master's degree, I would not recommend majoring in psychology.

How about Nursing? Education? Communications?

Choose the career type and then choose the major. Majors don't earn money, careers earn money. Thinking about it from a standpoint of "I'll have to go to school for this long, or take these classes" is the wrong way to think about it. Communications is a very diverse field. It can lead to all sorts of different careers.

Nursing is also super flexible. There are so many different work settings you can work in, with a nursing degree. I know a lot of people disregard nursing because they're afraid of "blood, guts, and poop", but the majority of nurses don't have to see any of those on a daily basis.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by Glockenspiel »

CascadiaSoonish wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 10:15 am
KlangFool wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:00 am OP,

Any other major is better than psychology.

KlangFool
Hard disagree. Understanding how the mind works is arguably going to be very marketable as automation and AI/ML creeps into every corner of business.
The VAST majority of people with only a bachelor's degree in psychology NEVER work in that field. Psychology majors are the people with $40k in college debt, who are working at Starbucks.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by MrBobcat »

KlangFool wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:00 am OP,

Any other major is better than psychology.

KlangFool
My wife's first degree was in psychology (she was the first person in her family to ever go to college, didn't know any better). But yes this +100.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by Point »

With UCSB you’ll want to consider which majors are impacted, time to degree, constrained classes and pre-reqs. If her goal is in the sciences, which UCSB considers psyc to be, then getting in and performing well in the baseline classes is extremely important. Biology is impacted, teaching students can seem secondary to eliminating students from the major. If math is her major, and she’s interested in an advanced degree, look carefully at the number of women with advanced degrees in math from UCSB. Also, UCSB has a broad selection of classes which may lead to nothing, so understanding what one’s life’s goals and interests are is important as the 30-50K a year expenditure for 4-6 years may never see a return. And then there’s the challenge of staying off the shoals of this well known party school.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by johnegonpdx »

One practical consideration: The UC / Cal State system used to be pretty fluid in terms of transferring between schools if you have the grades. I went to Berkeley and met many transfers my sophomore and junior years. In those days, numerous spots across the UC and Cal State system would open up because admissions policies let in a high % of kids who couldn't handle the academics. See if that is still the case. If so, your daughter can get her general ed / lower division courses out of the way at UCSB, and if she figures out she want to pursue a major not offered or strong at her school, she can pursue a transfer.

In terms of finding a "marketable" major, there is a way to monetize pretty much any major so long as you are a top competitor in that field. So your (honestly assessed) talent and passion should guide you to the right answer, and that answer may change over time.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by Glockenspiel »

Point wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 10:28 am Also, UCSB has a broad selection of classes which may lead to nothing, so understanding what one’s life’s goals and interests are is important as the 30-50K a year expenditure for 4-6 years may never see a return.
I agree. I was looking at the majors that UCSB offers and a whole lot of them will lead to nothing unless you get a graduate degree.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

She may want to consider other colleges. Nursing is the only major I've seen in this thread where there's absolutely a job out there upon graduation. Assuming she's only planning on a Bachelors degree, with a nursing degree, she will absolutely be in demand. Other similar options with jobs are Physical Therapy, although there's been a big push to get a PTd as the daughter of one of our friends has done. Pharmacist is a great option and they are in great demand. At a community college level, getting a degree as a dental hygienist would be lower paid, but lower cost and a clear path to a job.

There are quite a few major - job - starting salary - demand sites out there. They are worth looking for and really getting into for her.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by stoptothink »

Glockenspiel wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 10:27 am
CascadiaSoonish wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 10:15 am
KlangFool wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:00 am OP,

Any other major is better than psychology.

KlangFool
Hard disagree. Understanding how the mind works is arguably going to be very marketable as automation and AI/ML creeps into every corner of business.
The VAST majority of people with only a bachelor's degree in psychology NEVER work in that field. Psychology majors are the people with $40k in college debt, who are working at Starbucks.
Matches my experience. If she has made up her mind that this is a terminal degree, psychology is an awful choice. If she is open to grad school, it could be a good one. Outside of psychologists, I know a handful of people who are quite successful with a BA in psychology, but they all have graduate degrees in something totally different.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by Beensabu »

UCSB doesn't even have a straight psychology program anymore. The options are psychological and brain science or biopsychology.

https://my.sa.ucsb.edu/catalog/current/ ... ergraduate

The programs seem kind of hard, actually. You have to complete the classes to be eligible to declare the pre-major first, and still aren't guaranteed admission to the full major.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by CascadiaSoonish »

stoptothink wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 10:47 am
Glockenspiel wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 10:27 am
CascadiaSoonish wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 10:15 am
KlangFool wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:00 am OP,

Any other major is better than psychology.

KlangFool
Hard disagree. Understanding how the mind works is arguably going to be very marketable as automation and AI/ML creeps into every corner of business.
The VAST majority of people with only a bachelor's degree in psychology NEVER work in that field. Psychology majors are the people with $40k in college debt, who are working at Starbucks.
Matches my experience. If she has made up her mind that this is a terminal degree, psychology is an awful choice. If she is open to grad school, it could be a good one. Outside of psychologists, I know a handful of people who are quite successful with a BA in psychology, but they all have graduate degrees in something totally different.
Sheesh. Tough crowd here today. :)

There are no hard-and-fast rules here. Bogleheads will be appalled to hear that I chose a jazz studies major for undergrad (but ended up in tech for my career)

Conversely I know plenty of people with marketable degrees from good schools who ended up opting out of the workforce or choosing a low-commitment career. What's wrong with working at Starbucks? They treat their people well. Some of my happiest job memories were waiting tables as a young person.

So I really dislike blanket dismissals of programs or degrees. So much is specific to the individual and what opportunities present themselves and what's going on in a very dynamic job market. Let the kid pick something that engages them, get the degree, and get rolling in life.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by 22twain »

She should consider what kind (not subject!) of work she wants to do. Is she OK with sitting at a desk and computer all day? Writing or working with numbers? In an office or at home? Or maybe something more "outdoorsy"? Does she want to interact with people, in a "helping" or "managing" capacity? Does she want to travel for work? Drive around town visiting customers?

Starting with these criteria, she can compile a list of possible jobs, and then investigate which majors would lead to them. Ideally she would find a major that can lead to several of those possible jobs, to maximize flexibility.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by chinchin »

Bill Ackman has a degree in History, seems to have worked for him.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by Tirebiter »

fitawrari wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 8:39 amShe doesn't come from money (low wage immigrant parents) and she is keen on majoring in something that will get her a decent job right after graduation.
Because of her background, I think the typical "college is a place to find yourself" approach is a lot more risky than it would be for an upper-middle class or wealthy kid. Not to say she can't explore a bit at UCSB but she'll need to plan ahead more thoroughly than most of her classmates.

What does she consider a "decent job"? If she would be happy as an elementary school teacher, then any major she likes would be fine. If she needs to be earning $60k+ per year upon graduation, then that narrows down the list of majors quite a bit.
fitawrari wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 8:39 am Unfortunately UC Santa Barbara doesn't have business school as I think marketing would have been a good fit for her.

I suggested economics and, after explaining what it is and the type of jobs econ majors tend to get, she is open to it but not enthused about it. I am also not sure she will like the quantitative nature of economics.
My experience is very outdated but back in my day, marketing as an undergrad business major was pretty much two weeks' worth of valuable content spread out over two years' worth of classes. I'm guessing it's probably more data science focused now, but data science will be far more quantitative than econ.

However, if she is open to sales-type roles, an econ degree from UCSB combined with accounting classes would make for a very marketable combination in the financial industry. Most students don't find this type of education incredibly thrilling, but it's also not incredibly rigorous compared to STEM majors. And if she's a "people person" she might find this kind of career to be a lot more stimulating than her college classes, as she gets to know different companies and tries to sell them financial products. UCSB is particularly well located for its ease of access to potential employers in Los Angeles.

FWIW, I also remember a while ago, there was a bogleheads poll asking people to speak up if they were happy with their jobs. I was surprised to see that a large number of satisfied people were accountants.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by valleyrock »

Consider the Design Your Life approach. See https://designingyour.life/watch-tedx-s ... your-life/ .
This is, or was, the number one course at Stanford, and it's a book I bought and skimmed once. So, she might have a look at that approach in the TED talks, etc. to learn how to think about designing a life, a career, mentors, having a network of folks, and not necessarily doing "what you love," because, hey, you can learn to love a lot of things, and you don't know if you could love many things until you've tried them.

Marketability is an individual thing, subject to many variables. There are many, many jobs for which a college degree in most anything is sufficient. Well, maybe not surfing. But many of those best jobs go to the people with top grades in a college degree, ostensibly a mjor with at least some challenge. My personal opinion is that business degrees are minimal in challenge, although if one has all A's, then that's a leg up. Engineering is very challenging, but she's not interested in that. The social sciences are in between; again, getting good grades can enhance the marketability, and can also help a person get into a master's degree program, sooner or later, in many different things related or unrelated to the bachelor's degree. Such as MBAs, etc., which, if nothing else, open doors to jobs by virtue of making connections.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by Watty »

Since she is likely to change majors it is critical that she knows that she needs to have a good GPA her freshman year.

It varies widely but I have seen majors where you need a 3.0 GPA or higher to even apply to change majors to that majors. Even with the minimum GPA her application to change majors may not be accepted. This can lead to a catch 22 situation where you may not be doing well in your major and would do a lot better in some other major but you can't transfer into that major because you have a mediocre GPA.

It may be too late now but many colleges will allow a freshman to enrol as an undeclared major and pick their major later. As an undeclared major they would have courses in how to pick a major their freshman year. An advantage of an undeclared major is that it can sometimes be easier to transfer into some other majors at some colleges that a student who has already declared some other major. If possible she may want to change her major from Psychology to Undeclared if her university allows that.

The process to transfer into a major will vary with the university and the major so before she starts she should spend a lot of time researching the transfer process both at UC Santa Barbara and to other UC campuses.

I don't know how the UC system works but decades ago in another state I was able to transfer from one campus to a different campus to change majors without any big hurdles.

It would good for her to do a couple of "what if fire drills" and pretend she is at the end of her freshman year and wants to change majors to some other degree program. If she goes through goes what it would take to transfer to several other degrees, possibly at a different campus, then she will likely see a common pattern develope and knowing that she may be able to position herself to more easily be able to change majors later on.

One thing for her to also look at is what prerequisite classes some other majors require. For example if she might want to switch to economics there is likely some sort of intro to Econ class that is required for other economics classes. It might make sense to take that the first semester of her freshman year as an elective class instead of something like a general history class so that if she does switch to economics then she would already to take more economics classes. If she does not switch to economics then that would still be a reasonable elective to have.

Some popular majors can be even harder to transfer into than they are to get into as an incoming freshman so needs to be prepared for that.
Help my niece choose a marketable college major
I have no clue what the job market is or what it pays but there are degrees in Human Resource Management which might be at least somewhat related to psychology but a lot more marketable so that would be worth adding to her list of majors to look into.
stoptothink
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by stoptothink »

CascadiaSoonish wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 11:18 am
stoptothink wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 10:47 am
Glockenspiel wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 10:27 am
CascadiaSoonish wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 10:15 am
KlangFool wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:00 am OP,

Any other major is better than psychology.

KlangFool
Hard disagree. Understanding how the mind works is arguably going to be very marketable as automation and AI/ML creeps into every corner of business.
The VAST majority of people with only a bachelor's degree in psychology NEVER work in that field. Psychology majors are the people with $40k in college debt, who are working at Starbucks.
Matches my experience. If she has made up her mind that this is a terminal degree, psychology is an awful choice. If she is open to grad school, it could be a good one. Outside of psychologists, I know a handful of people who are quite successful with a BA in psychology, but they all have graduate degrees in something totally different.
Sheesh. Tough crowd here today. :)

There are no hard-and-fast rules here. Bogleheads will be appalled to hear that I chose a jazz studies major for undergrad (but ended up in tech for my career)

Conversely I know plenty of people with marketable degrees from good schools who ended up opting out of the workforce or choosing a low-commitment career. What's wrong with working at Starbucks? They treat their people well. Some of my happiest job memories were waiting tables as a young person.

So I really dislike blanket dismissals of programs or degrees. So much is specific to the individual and what opportunities present themselves and what's going on in a very dynamic job market. Let the kid pick something that engages them, get the degree, and get rolling in life.
You are playing the odds here. Nobody has a crystal ball, but a bachelor's degree in psychology is not a direct open door to very many industries. You are also in tech, which is its own animal. My wife was making 6-figures in tech before she had ever completed a full semester of college. If OP's niece wants to get into tech, psychology may work, but it certainly is not the most direct path.
Tirebiter
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by Tirebiter »

Glockenspiel wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 10:26 am Nursing is also super flexible. There are so many different work settings you can work in, with a nursing degree. I know a lot of people disregard nursing because they're afraid of "blood, guts, and poop", but the majority of nurses don't have to see any of those on a daily basis.
Nursing is a good career path if the student is interested. Just FYI though, I don't think UCSB has a nursing program.
alfaspider
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by alfaspider »

KlangFool wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:59 am
alfaspider wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:19 am
bsteiner wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:14 am Many students change their intended majors in the first two years of college.

If she majors in psychology, she could become a psychologist, she could take the required science courses and go to medical school, she could go to law school, she could go to business school and get an MBA in marketing or finance, or she could end up doing any number of things.
Going back to my "think about a career" advice: the vast majority of undergraduate psychology majors do not ever practice psychology. If she does not want to go to medical school and become a psychiatrist or get a phd and become a clinical psychologst, then I think it would be helpful to better understand why she is attracted to the major in the first place.

For whatever reason psychology has become one of the most popular majors right now. I think some of it is that it's not as intimidating as sciences like physics and chemistry, but it is perceived as more "legitimate" (i.e. acceptible to parents and other adults in their life) than something like philosophy.
A very simple reason. It's the easiest major to get a degree.

KlangFool
I don't think that's true. Surely something like "general studies" or communications would be easier for most students. Psychology typically requires several statistics courses and labs that aren't necessary light on work. I only took Psych 101 in college, but I remember the lab portion being a pretty significant time commitment. I highly doubt it's significantly easier than most business majors. But any major is only as rigorous as the institution and instructors associated with it.
Last edited by alfaspider on Thu May 04, 2023 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
KlangFool
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by KlangFool »

alfaspider wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 3:38 pm
KlangFool wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:59 am
alfaspider wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:19 am
bsteiner wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:14 am Many students change their intended majors in the first two years of college.

If she majors in psychology, she could become a psychologist, she could take the required science courses and go to medical school, she could go to law school, she could go to business school and get an MBA in marketing or finance, or she could end up doing any number of things.
Going back to my "think about a career" advice: the vast majority of undergraduate psychology majors do not ever practice psychology. If she does not want to go to medical school and become a psychiatrist or get a phd and become a clinical psychologst, then I think it would be helpful to better understand why she is attracted to the major in the first place.

For whatever reason psychology has become one of the most popular majors right now. I think some of it is that it's not as intimidating as sciences like physics and chemistry, but it is perceived as more "legitimate" (i.e. acceptible to parents and other adults in their life) than something like philosophy.
A very simple reason. It's the easiest major to get a degree.

KlangFool
I don't think that's true. Surely something like "general studies" or communications would probably be easier for most students. Psychology typically requires several statistics courses and labs that aren't necessary light on work. I only took Psych 101 in college, but I remember the lab portion being a pretty significant time commitment.
Okay, Third easiest. communication would be number 2. General studies is too general. Most parents will not pay for it.

This is a race to the bottom.

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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by bsteiner »

chinchin wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 11:55 am Bill Ackman has a degree in History, seems to have worked for him.
And Steve Jobs took a course in calligraphy.
alfaspider
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by alfaspider »

KlangFool wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 3:41 pm
alfaspider wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 3:38 pm
KlangFool wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:59 am
alfaspider wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:19 am
bsteiner wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:14 am Many students change their intended majors in the first two years of college.

If she majors in psychology, she could become a psychologist, she could take the required science courses and go to medical school, she could go to law school, she could go to business school and get an MBA in marketing or finance, or she could end up doing any number of things.
Going back to my "think about a career" advice: the vast majority of undergraduate psychology majors do not ever practice psychology. If she does not want to go to medical school and become a psychiatrist or get a phd and become a clinical psychologst, then I think it would be helpful to better understand why she is attracted to the major in the first place.

For whatever reason psychology has become one of the most popular majors right now. I think some of it is that it's not as intimidating as sciences like physics and chemistry, but it is perceived as more "legitimate" (i.e. acceptible to parents and other adults in their life) than something like philosophy.
A very simple reason. It's the easiest major to get a degree.

KlangFool
I don't think that's true. Surely something like "general studies" or communications would probably be easier for most students. Psychology typically requires several statistics courses and labs that aren't necessary light on work. I only took Psych 101 in college, but I remember the lab portion being a pretty significant time commitment.
Okay, Third easiest. communication would be number 2. General studies is too general. Most parents will not pay for it.

This is a race to the bottom.

KlangFool
Have you actually spent any time studying psychology, or are you making assumptions about it? I think a lot of people are genuinely interested in the topic. It is true that it is of limited use as a "career major," But not all careers require an associated major. At the end of the day, employers care what you can do for them, not what you spent your time in school doing. Being useful to an employer may or may not directly associate with what you learned in school. If you intend to go into business for yourself, having gone to college can be useful for social signaling reasons and as a place to build maturity. If you regard certain majors as part of a "race to the bottom", it's a self-limiting race. The compensation delta of in-demand majors to regular majors will continue to grow, which will provide further incentive to study something in demand.

I majored in philosophy, but my career as a tax attorney was built with my law degree and tax law masters. The philosophy degree just checked a gatekeeping box. If I had to get a degree in "something", might as well be something I enjoyed. I now make more than a lot of my friends who studied hard sciences and engineering.

That's why I advised to look at careers and solve backwards rather than just looking at majors.
KlangFool
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by KlangFool »

alfaspider wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 3:49 pm
KlangFool wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 3:41 pm
alfaspider wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 3:38 pm
KlangFool wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:59 am
alfaspider wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:19 am

Going back to my "think about a career" advice: the vast majority of undergraduate psychology majors do not ever practice psychology. If she does not want to go to medical school and become a psychiatrist or get a phd and become a clinical psychologst, then I think it would be helpful to better understand why she is attracted to the major in the first place.

For whatever reason psychology has become one of the most popular majors right now. I think some of it is that it's not as intimidating as sciences like physics and chemistry, but it is perceived as more "legitimate" (i.e. acceptible to parents and other adults in their life) than something like philosophy.
A very simple reason. It's the easiest major to get a degree.

KlangFool
I don't think that's true. Surely something like "general studies" or communications would probably be easier for most students. Psychology typically requires several statistics courses and labs that aren't necessary light on work. I only took Psych 101 in college, but I remember the lab portion being a pretty significant time commitment.
Okay, Third easiest. communication would be number 2. General studies is too general. Most parents will not pay for it.

This is a race to the bottom.

KlangFool
Have you actually spent any time studying psychology, or are you making assumptions about it? I think a lot of people are genuinely interested in the topic.
alfaspider,

I am genuinely interested in psychology. I read books by Virginia Satir.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Satir

But, that does not mean I am willing to take on student loan to get a degree in psychology.

Do you read psychology books not as part of any course works? IMHO, that is the way to show genuine interest.

"If I had to get a degree in "something", might as well be something I enjoyed. "

Why do you need a degree to learn anything that you enjoy? I studied philosophy, psychology, and many other stuff just for fun.

KlangFool
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CapeLinda
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by CapeLinda »

Re Psychology Major

Where I live, a private clinical psychologist who is licensed charges $175.00 hour. I have heard of $225 to 300 for specialized areas. That would not be an undergrad degree. My viewpoint is different as I have worked in healthcare which most allied health degrees are now Masters level. Most psychologists (licensed) I know, would be quite academic - I would not see psychology as an "easy degree" at all and it has a significant neurological science background including stats etc.

Check out the "American Psychology Association" website for more objective information. I always thought Industrial Psychology would have been interesting. Several of Allied Health disciples are leaving healthcare to work in "user design" with software companies due to their medical and psychology knowledge, just an FYI. Salaries are apparently much higher than health Care. I am retired, but if I was starting out I would definitely look into that area. Most master programs had significant financial support if they wanted a specific candidate.

General studies was always used by people who wanted to try several different areas - prior to declaring a major. In my view, it has definite merit as others have suggested. I did General Studies for 2 years prior to entering a professional school - they required prerequisites that could be transferred - from one university to another.

Its worth shadowing or talking to a psychologist. Where I live they have a program, you can shadow multiple health care disciplines including medicine, nursing , allied health etc for anyone interested in those career paths.

Best of luck to. your niece.
CapeLinda
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by CapeLinda »

Here's the link to the APA website

https://www.apa.org
AS7911
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by AS7911 »

fitawrari wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 8:39 am
She doesn't come from money (low wage immigrant parents) and she is keen on majoring in something that will get her a decent job right after graduation.
Generally speaking, an undergraduate degree is not "job training" with the possible exception of engineering. If her goal is job training, rather than intellectual curiosity, there will likely be a poor outcome. Exposure to a wide variety of subjects and people and campus activities will help her pick a direction in life.
Point
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by Point »

If she has an interest in nursing, SB City College has an excellent program. Also Cal State Channel Islands has a Nursing program that results in a BS.

https://www.csuci.edu/santa-barbara/pro ... goleta.htm
https://sbcc.edu/nursing/

Both of these are hard to get into, and not surprisingly, much lower cost. But they are excellent programs.

I would also add that in general, SB City College does a far better job at teaching than does UCSB. She could focus on getting all the lower division work done at SBCC. If her interest is to excel in the sciences, she might consider attending SBCC, they have excellent classes in the sciences, then transfer to UCSB upon obtaining her AA. Not surprisingly, she'll save some considerable costs too.
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by firebirdparts »

KlangFool wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:00 am OP,

Any other major is better than psychology.

KlangFool
This is so true.
This time is the same
DoubleComma
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Re: Help my niece choose a marketable college major

Post by DoubleComma »

arf1410 wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 4:54 pm
fitawrari wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 8:39 am
She doesn't come from money (low wage immigrant parents) and she is keen on majoring in something that will get her a decent job right after graduation.
Generally speaking, an undergraduate degree is not "job training" with the possible exception of engineering. If her goal is job training, rather than intellectual curiosity, there will likely be a poor outcome. Exposure to a wide variety of subjects and people and campus activities will help her pick a direction in life.
I agree with arf410.

I know its not a popular opinion on BH, but I fundamentally believe the education from going away for college is more about learning to live on your own, get along with roommates, make good decisions, and understand how to navigate the world in the safe confines of the university setting. From an educational perspective I truly believe the early undergrad years are a time to explore what interests the undergrad...treat it like a buffet to start. Working hard and maintaining a good GPA will continue to keep doors open in the future. Very few people go to college, earn a degree, and go to work in that field. Certainly there are some who do exactly that and have a plan and vision at 18 years old, but that is the minority.

I started college pursing one major, changed in my 4th semester to another. Applied and was accepted to grad school, decided that summer before starting I didn't want to do that after all and reverted my the career center at my graduating university and found a job. That first job wasn't a home run, but within 9 months switch positions, 4 years later made a lateral move to a different industry and have been there since. Now ~25 years later I'm a Mega Corp VP with a fantastic income leading a huge business.

Its clear your niece is a hard worker and smart, otherwise she couldn't have been admitted to UCSB. Its not an easy place to get into these days, not a selective as Cal or UCLA, but certainly not easy.

Not to many 18 years have the maturity and capacity understand what they want to do for the rest of their professional lives. She should get on a path and not be afraid to switch paths if necessary.

Push you much more matured value system on someone developing their own is dangerous. Provide support and safety to your niece, but let them find there own path.
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