Computer Expertise Needed

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tallguy3891
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Computer Expertise Needed

Post by tallguy3891 »

I have another pc, an HP All-In-One Windows 11 in "S Mode" which in my opinion seems to be acting slower than normal. Not a lot, but somewhat of a delay.

It came as 4GB RAM with 128GB SSD, and I would use for only basics, and it started out ok but then within hours it suddenly wouldn't open pages and so on. I replaced the 4GB RAM with another I had and it was better, back to how it started out. So, to experiment I put in 16GB RAM which I had (two matching 8GB) and did a recovery reinstall. When it was set up again it initially gave a message of Fixing C Stage 1, then Stage 2, etc., went through that and seems to be running ok except same issue with probably 5 to 10 seconds delay opening pages.

1. Is this normal for a pc with S Mode? I also have a 14" laptop with S Mode which actually works great and fast.

2. What was the Fixing C messages all about and is that an issue going forward? Does that mean it was corrupted or had malware, etc.? I did see some stuff online about it but thought I would check here too.

3. Is it still secure?

4. Is there anything I can do to fix the delay in opening pages and so forth? I thought if anything it would be faster due to S Mode streamlining and security.

Thanks for any comments.
safari
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by safari »

Have you tried different browsers (Chrome, Firefox, Edge, Brave, etc.)? If the delay happens across the board, then it's a PC issue.
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tallguy3891
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by tallguy3891 »

safari wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:29 pm Have you tried different browsers (Chrome, Firefox, Edge, Brave, etc.)? If the delay happens across the board, then it's a PC issue.
I think S Mode is locked down to Edge only?
mega317
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by mega317 »

Can always turn off S mode if you're comfortable with that.
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warner25
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by warner25 »

2. I think it's normal for Windows to scan the C: drive for problems whenever you do something drastic to the machine, which definitely includes swapping out and adding memory. Simply doing a hard reboot (pressing and holding the power button for 10+ seconds) will cause the same thing.

3. It's my understanding that Windows S Mode should be pretty hard to compromise since its configuration is very locked down and effectively whitelists a small number of applications for execution. I wouldn't have any immediate concerns about the security of this machine from everything you describe.

4. You mention "opening pages," assuming you mean web pages in a browser. What about opening and running other applications? If that doesn't seem unusually slow, I'm guessing that you have a problem with your local WiFi network, maybe the WiFi card on that particular machine. 16 GB of memory is clearly way, way more than you'd need to run a web browser and load any reasonable set of web pages. Even the 4 GB that it came with should be fine.
Last edited by warner25 on Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Watty
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by Watty »

tallguy3891 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:00 pm It came as 4GB RAM with 128GB SSD
How much free space do you have on your SSD? Do you have any other hard drives attached to it?
tallguy3891 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:00 pm I replaced the 4GB RAM with another I had and it was better, back to how it started out. So, to experiment I put in 16GB RAM which I had (two matching 8GB) and did a recovery reinstall.
I am not a hardware guru but are you sure that the memory you swapped in was the right type of memory? I don't recall what all the detail are but there are all sorts of different speeds, caches, etc. and while it might work it might not work well. I would put probably put the original memory back in it while you are figuring this out.
tallguy3891 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:00 pm 4. Is there anything I can do to fix the delay in opening pages and so forth?
When you have your browser open type in "speed test" and run the speed test and post the results. Also try that on a different computer or the browser on you cell phone when connected to wifi. Post the results here. You may have a slow internet connection like if you accidently connected to the wrong Wi-Fi network.

Are you using an antivirus program other than Defender like Norton or MacAfee? New computers often come with a free trial so you may want to uninstall any of those.
tallguy3891 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:00 pm 4. Is there anything I can do to fix the delay in opening pages and so forth? I thought if anything it would be faster due to S Mode streamlining and security.
There could be some huge update that it is trying to download and install while you are using it. I would run the windows update several times and reboot as needed until it says there are no more updates.

One thing you can try is to just leave your computer running overnight, you may need to disable the sleep mode I have had a computer get glitchy after an update problem and by just leaving it on overnight it eventually fixed itself. I don't have a clue what it did so it could just be a coincidence.
Last edited by Watty on Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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warner25
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by warner25 »

I meant to add: Windows is prone to monopolizing your hardware resources for its own purposes, on its own initiative, at times. I'd imagine that Windows S Mode is even more aggressive about doing its own thing. Do you use this machine often? If not, it might be quite busy downloading and installing updates in the background whenever you turn it on.
patrick
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by patrick »

Have you confirmed that the computer recognized all the added RAM?

Does it takes 5 to 10 second even when opening bogleheads.org?

If even bogleheads.org is slow to open, that would mean something is seriously wrong.

If bogleheads is fine but other sites are slow even with 16GB of RAM, it may just be that your processor is too slow. Many web sites these days have extremely complex markup and scripts even if they are only doing fairly simple things. A computer that only shipped with 4GB RAM and a 128GB SSD probably would have had a low-end processor. If it only slowed down after the computer was on for a while, it may have further slowed down the processor speed to avoid overheating. I wouldn't count on a cheap all-in-one having good cooling.
Northern Flicker
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by Northern Flicker »

It is highly non-trivial for a professional software performance engineer to diagnose a system performance issue even with access to and full control of the machine. Responses on a message board are generally just blindfold dart tosses, though one or more nonetheless may land on target.
gavinsiu
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by gavinsiu »

Let’s try to diagnose this. Can you tell me what model hp you are using so I can get an idea of the cpu.

Secondly can you right click on the task bar and select tasl manager. See if you can get a detail on what is causing you cpu to spike.
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tallguy3891
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by tallguy3891 »

gavinsiu wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:24 am Let’s try to diagnose this. Can you tell me what model hp you are using so I can get an idea of the cpu.

Secondly can you right click on the task bar and select tasl manager. See if you can get a detail on what is causing you cpu to spike.
Thanks. I don't see any particular thing causing any unusual spikes.
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tallguy3891
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by tallguy3891 »

Watty wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:19 pm
tallguy3891 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:00 pm It came as 4GB RAM with 128GB SSD
How much free space do you have on your SSD? Do you have any other hard drives attached to it?
tallguy3891 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:00 pm I replaced the 4GB RAM with another I had and it was better, back to how it started out. So, to experiment I put in 16GB RAM which I had (two matching 8GB) and did a recovery reinstall.
I am not a hardware guru but are you sure that the memory you swapped in was the right type of memory? I don't recall what all the detail are but there are all sorts of different speeds, caches, etc. and while it might work it might not work well. I would put probably put the original memory back in it while you are figuring this out.
tallguy3891 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:00 pm 4. Is there anything I can do to fix the delay in opening pages and so forth?
When you have your browser open type in "speed test" and run the speed test and post the results. Also try that on a different computer or the browser on you cell phone when connected to wifi. Post the results here. You may have a slow internet connection like if you accidently connected to the wrong Wi-Fi network.

Are you using an antivirus program other than Defender like Norton or MacAfee? New computers often come with a free trial so you may want to uninstall any of those.
tallguy3891 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:00 pm 4. Is there anything I can do to fix the delay in opening pages and so forth? I thought if anything it would be faster due to S Mode streamlining and security.
There could be some huge update that it is trying to download and install while you are using it. I would run the windows update several times and reboot as needed until it says there are no more updates.

One thing you can try is to just leave your computer running overnight, you may need to disable the sleep mode I have had a computer get glitchy after an update problem and by just leaving it on overnight it eventually fixed itself. I don't have a clue what it did so it could just be a coincidence.
No other antivirus, as S Mode uses only Microsoft Defender. I did check to see if anything else was loaded but it was not. I did run the update several times, changed the sleep mode, and left pc on all day. These seemed to help somewhat. Thanks.
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by tallguy3891 »

patrick wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:33 pm Have you confirmed that the computer recognized all the added RAM?

Does it takes 5 to 10 second even when opening bogleheads.org?

If even bogleheads.org is slow to open, that would mean something is seriously wrong.

If bogleheads is fine but other sites are slow even with 16GB of RAM, it may just be that your processor is too slow. Many web sites these days have extremely complex markup and scripts even if they are only doing fairly simple things. A computer that only shipped with 4GB RAM and a 128GB SSD probably would have had a low-end processor. If it only slowed down after the computer was on for a while, it may have further slowed down the processor speed to avoid overheating. I wouldn't count on a cheap all-in-one having good cooling.
It did and does recognize the extra RAM, but I reduced it to one 8GB. Everything seems to "open" at about same speed.
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by tallguy3891 »

warner25 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:15 pm 2. I think it's normal for Windows to scan the C: drive for problems whenever you do something drastic to the machine, which definitely includes swapping out and adding memory. Simply doing a hard reboot (pressing and holding the power button for 10+ seconds) will cause the same thing.

3. It's my understanding that Windows S Mode should be pretty hard to compromise since its configuration is very locked down and effectively whitelists a small number of applications for execution. I wouldn't have any immediate concerns about the security of this machine from everything you describe.

4. You mention "opening pages," assuming you mean web pages in a browser. What about opening and running other applications? If that doesn't seem unusually slow, I'm guessing that you have a problem with your local WiFi network, maybe the WiFi card on that particular machine. 16 GB of memory is clearly way, way more than you'd need to run a web browser and load any reasonable set of web pages. Even the 4 GB that it came with should be fine.
As per my other posts, things seem a little better now. However, the biggest delay is when I click the desktop icon shortcut. Takes two to three times as long to "open" site as my "better" all in one connected right next to it. After the icon opens up the site, the site itself opens pretty much ok. I did change the mouse to single click too.
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warner25
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by warner25 »

This is confusing because it sounds like you have a desktop shortcut to a web page. So it first launches an application (your browser), and then tries to request the web page, which are two very distinct steps, and we don't know which one of the two is taking unusually long. If the browser is / was already open (maybe it usually is on your better machine that you use more often?) then the shortcut will get you to the web page faster, because it doesn't have to do the first step. If browsing the web doesn't seem slow once you finally have everything opened up, I'm thinking that's it. I can imagine that a machine with only 4 GB of memory and a similarly low-end CPU might indeed take a few seconds to initially launch the Edge browser on top of Windows 11 (especially if it's also doing other things, like Windows Update, as previously discussed).
gavinsiu
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by gavinsiu »

tallguy3891 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:14 pm Thanks. I don't see any particular thing causing any unusual spikes.
It would be helpful to know the model so we can figure out if your cpu is the bottleneck.

Is web browsing the only slow app? When you launch another app does it take a long time, too or is the slowness just the browser?
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tallguy3891
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by tallguy3891 »

gavinsiu wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:00 pm
tallguy3891 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:14 pm Thanks. I don't see any particular thing causing any unusual spikes.
It would be helpful to know the model so we can figure out if your cpu is the bottleneck.

Is web browsing the only slow app? When you launch another app does it take a long time, too or is the slowness just the browser?
I suspect the processor might be the issue? It has an Intel Celeron J4025 2.00 GHz which I know is considered lower end these days, in an HP 22-dd-0224 Windows 11 in S mode which I bought cheaply (new) because it has S Mode. It also has sporadic issues stating "This Page Isn't Responding" with options to wait or exit page. The slowness seems to come and go across various processes. As far as slowness when clicking a desktop icon, it takes 5 to 10 seconds to open the site, whereas my other pc takes one second.

Then again, my spouse has an Asus 14" laptop with S Mode and an Intel Celeron N4020 1.10 GHz with 4GB RAM and 128 GB storage and it is fast, responsive, and reliable. Go figure.
Last edited by tallguy3891 on Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
gavinsiu
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by gavinsiu »

While j4125 is a slow processor it is comparable to your wife’s machine. Despite its low performance it is a modern cpu that can play 4k videos. I think you have other issues.

Here a review of a similar machine
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zZPscjLJONM

Check your power profile. Make sure you set the profile to performance and not for battery savers.
02nz
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by 02nz »

tallguy3891 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:20 pm
gavinsiu wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:00 pm
tallguy3891 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:14 pm Thanks. I don't see any particular thing causing any unusual spikes.
It would be helpful to know the model so we can figure out if your cpu is the bottleneck.

Is web browsing the only slow app? When you launch another app does it take a long time, too or is the slowness just the browser?
I suspect the processor might be the issue? It has an Intel Celeron J4125 2.00 GHz which I know is considered lower end these days, in an HP 22-dd-0224 Windows 11 in S mode which I bought cheaply (new) because it has S Mode. It also has sporadic issues stating "This Page Isn't Responding" with options to wait or exit page. The slowness seems to come and go across various processes. As far as slowness when clicking a desktop icon, it takes 5 to 10 seconds to open the site, whereas my other pc takes one second.

Then again, my spouse has an Asus 14" laptop with S Mode and an Intel Celeron N4020 1.10 GHz with 4GB RAM and 128 GB storage and it is fast, responsive, and reliable. Go figure.
I'm surprised to hear that the N4020-powered PC feels "fast" and "responsive" - both of those processors are dog slow. I say this as someone who thinks people generally overestimate the importance of processor performance - having an SSD and enough RAM (minimum 8GB) is more important. But those processors are about half the speed (or less) of the processor of even an mid-range laptop from 5-6 years ago, and somewhere around 10% of the speed (not a typo) of a modern midrange laptop processor. I would consider them unacceptable today for all but the very, very lightest of uses (as in, one browser tab open at a time), at least for Windows.
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by gavinsiu »

02nz wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:31 pm I'm surprised to hear that the N4020-powered PC feels "fast" and "responsive" - both of those processors are dog slow. I say this as someone who thinks people generally overestimate the importance of processor performance - having an SSD and enough RAM (minimum 8GB) is more important. But those processors are about half the speed (or less) of the processor of even an mid-range laptop from 5-6 years ago, and somewhere around 10% of the speed (not a typo) of a modern midrange laptop processor. I would consider them unacceptable today for all but the very, very lightest of uses (as in, one browser tab open at a time), at least for Windows.
This depends on the user’s expectations. I have a lot of experience with low end computer supporting family member with subpar hardware. My kids uses a low end Chromebook which is actually better than the even lower spec one they used at school. My mom runs a celeron chrome os. None of them complain about the speed. I also do browsing on an ancient amd.

Benchmark does not give a full picture of usage. My m1 Mac is greatly faster than my kids laptop but it is not going to be 10x faster in browsing. For a lot of people, it just has to be fast enough.

What should happen is that the windows should appear quickly but there maybe a lag on displaying the page content. I notice a second or two lag. It should not be 5 seconds. The j4125 is also faster than n4020 so I think there is an issue with his machine.
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tallguy3891
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by tallguy3891 »

gavinsiu wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:07 pm
02nz wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:31 pm I'm surprised to hear that the N4020-powered PC feels "fast" and "responsive" - both of those processors are dog slow. I say this as someone who thinks people generally overestimate the importance of processor performance - having an SSD and enough RAM (minimum 8GB) is more important. But those processors are about half the speed (or less) of the processor of even an mid-range laptop from 5-6 years ago, and somewhere around 10% of the speed (not a typo) of a modern midrange laptop processor. I would consider them unacceptable today for all but the very, very lightest of uses (as in, one browser tab open at a time), at least for Windows.
This depends on the user’s expectations. I have a lot of experience with low end computer supporting family member with subpar hardware. My kids uses a low end Chromebook which is actually better than the even lower spec one they used at school. My mom runs a celeron chrome os. None of them complain about the speed. I also do browsing on an ancient amd.

Benchmark does not give a full picture of usage. My m1 Mac is greatly faster than my kids laptop but it is not going to be 10x faster in browsing. For a lot of people, it just has to be fast enough.

What should happen is that the windows should appear quickly but there maybe a lag on displaying the page content. I notice a second or two lag. It should not be 5 seconds. The j4125 is also faster than n4020 so I think there is an issue with his machine.
This is interesting. Also interesting is that a 5 second delay rather than 1 second should be an issue for a rather basic pc user such as myself! For someone trying to get work done, sure. Even so, assuming it is a machine problem, is there any remedy, such as a new SSD and fresh OS install? Or should I not bother? Maybe I'll just hook up my smaller desktop with my good old fashioned solid monitor and separate speakers and attachable camera. It sure is nice when stuff just works you know...? It works great, but what a clutter.
gavinsiu
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by gavinsiu »

tallguy3891 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:29 pm This is interesting. Also interesting is that a 5 second delay rather than 1 second should be an issue for a rather basic pc user such as myself! For someone trying to get work done, sure. Even so, assuming it is a machine problem, is there any remedy, such as a new SSD and fresh OS install? Or should I not bother? Maybe I'll just hook up my smaller desktop with my good old fashioned solid monitor and separate speakers and attachable camera. It sure is nice when stuff just works you know...? It works great, but what a clutter.
Unless you use specialized task, you might not notice an increase in processing ability or even gpu ability. However GUI responsiness would be more noticable. A top of the line Intel i9 running a top of the line GPU like a Nividia 4090 would be sigificantly faster than an intel i3 if you are using it to play games, but if you are using it to browse the web, you might not notice that much of a difference. This is also subjective. Some users are sort of jaded by working on top of the line machines, they preceived minor lags as unexceptable.

In my opinion, the machine should work ok out of the box. I didn't have to make adjustments for any of the machines. The op mostly wanted to know if the issue is due to the nature of the machine or due to a defect. Based on his response that that he uses a Celeron on his other machine, I would say that there is a problem with his HP box. If the OP had said that his celeron was much slower than his Epyc box, then I would think it's because the machine is slow.

Even the top of the line machine may have issues, there could be a boat load of reasons, the trick is to diagnose them. Here's a few that could be the cause of the issue.
1. The machine's power profile might be set to maximize battery performance. The cpu is running at the minimal cpu speed, causing lags. One of the windows update recently cause a number of power profile to disappear.
2. There is a driver issue, causing endless interrupts. You notice this typically with choppy mouse response or various disk errors. This could be cause by an incorrect driver, or even a bad windows driver update.
3. There is a thermal issue where the fan is out or the thermal paste wasn't done properly. Whenever the user do anything, the cpu heats up and throttles. A family member dropped the computer, broke one of the fan so that only 1 fan was working.
4. One common issue is search indexing where the search service constantly run through the disk to index the file. This affects lower end machine more because the higher end machine might have 12 cores and can do more background tasks.
5. Another issue is antivirus running scans constantly over itself.
6. The SSD might not be an SSD but an inferior product like EMC. This can result in performance issues loading.
7. The issue might not be the cpu or disk but the network. One of the relatives install a product that block addresses, but then kept adding to the list so that they had about a thousand sites. For every URL they access, the system had to validate it against 1000 entries or it could be something similar like slow network.

So my point is that the issue may not be due to the hardware. the OP could have had the top of the line machine and would still have issues. It would be better to try to diagnose the issue, but that would be somewhat difficult as another poster said over a forum. Should the OP bother? That would be up to him. I am willing to provide some help.
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enad
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by enad »

tallguy3891 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:29 pm This is interesting. Also interesting is that a 5 second delay rather than 1 second should be an issue for a rather basic pc user such as myself! For someone trying to get work done, sure. Even so, assuming it is a machine problem, is there any remedy, such as a new SSD and fresh OS install? Or should I not bother? Maybe I'll just hook up my smaller desktop with my good old fashioned solid monitor and separate speakers and attachable camera. It sure is nice when stuff just works you know...? It works great, but what a clutter.
How do you use your PC i.e. browser only to surf the net, check email, etc ..., Office products (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc ...) Games?
What Goes Up Must come down -- David Clayton-Thomas (1968), BST
gavinsiu
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by gavinsiu »

tallguy3891

were you able to check if your power setting is set not to power save?
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by rainfallwinterberry »

tallguy3891 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:00 pm 2. What was the Fixing C messages all about and is that an issue going forward? Does that mean it was corrupted or had malware, etc.? I did see some stuff online about it but thought I would check here too.
I believe that Fixing C messages is the OS running a filesystem integrity verification and repair job. This suggests that there is either data corruption on your SSD or that your SSD is dying, either of which is very bad. Check SMART data to see disk health. I also recommend replacing the SSD if you can.

CPU performance *could* be the issue -- the N4020 is indeed a dog slow CPU. Web browsing is a surprisingly CPU heavy task, and you can get a 1L office PC that businesses are dumping in bulk for ~150 dollars on ebay (search for Lenovo tiny, hp mini, or dell micro). But if it was fine then became bad, then I think another factor could be thermal throttling -- it got too hot and the CPU had to clock down.
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tallguy3891
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by tallguy3891 »

enad wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:08 am
tallguy3891 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:29 pm This is interesting. Also interesting is that a 5 second delay rather than 1 second should be an issue for a rather basic pc user such as myself! For someone trying to get work done, sure. Even so, assuming it is a machine problem, is there any remedy, such as a new SSD and fresh OS install? Or should I not bother? Maybe I'll just hook up my smaller desktop with my good old fashioned solid monitor and separate speakers and attachable camera. It sure is nice when stuff just works you know...? It works great, but what a clutter.
How do you use your PC i.e. browser only to surf the net, check email, etc ..., Office products (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc ...) Games?
Light user. Some documents on WordPad, a few emails, mostly internet searches for info. Spouse also uses it for facebook.

Computer stuff is mostly a hobby for me at this point, for fun.
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tallguy3891
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by tallguy3891 »

gavinsiu wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:27 am tallguy3891

were you able to check if your power setting is set not to power save?
There is no option to do so on the pc. Don't know if that is an S Mode thing or if there might be an update issue right now as mentioned elsewhere?
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by tallguy3891 »

gavinsiu wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:00 am
tallguy3891 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:29 pm This is interesting. Also interesting is that a 5 second delay rather than 1 second should be an issue for a rather basic pc user such as myself! For someone trying to get work done, sure. Even so, assuming it is a machine problem, is there any remedy, such as a new SSD and fresh OS install? Or should I not bother? Maybe I'll just hook up my smaller desktop with my good old fashioned solid monitor and separate speakers and attachable camera. It sure is nice when stuff just works you know...? It works great, but what a clutter.
Unless you use specialized task, you might not notice an increase in processing ability or even gpu ability. However GUI responsiness would be more noticable. A top of the line Intel i9 running a top of the line GPU like a Nividia 4090 would be sigificantly faster than an intel i3 if you are using it to play games, but if you are using it to browse the web, you might not notice that much of a difference. This is also subjective. Some users are sort of jaded by working on top of the line machines, they preceived minor lags as unexceptable.

In my opinion, the machine should work ok out of the box. I didn't have to make adjustments for any of the machines. The op mostly wanted to know if the issue is due to the nature of the machine or due to a defect. Based on his response that that he uses a Celeron on his other machine, I would say that there is a problem with his HP box. If the OP had said that his celeron was much slower than his Epyc box, then I would think it's because the machine is slow.

Even the top of the line machine may have issues, there could be a boat load of reasons, the trick is to diagnose them. Here's a few that could be the cause of the issue.
1. The machine's power profile might be set to maximize battery performance. The cpu is running at the minimal cpu speed, causing lags. One of the windows update recently cause a number of power profile to disappear.
2. There is a driver issue, causing endless interrupts. You notice this typically with choppy mouse response or various disk errors. This could be cause by an incorrect driver, or even a bad windows driver update.
3. There is a thermal issue where the fan is out or the thermal paste wasn't done properly. Whenever the user do anything, the cpu heats up and throttles. A family member dropped the computer, broke one of the fan so that only 1 fan was working.
4. One common issue is search indexing where the search service constantly run through the disk to index the file. This affects lower end machine more because the higher end machine might have 12 cores and can do more background tasks.
5. Another issue is antivirus running scans constantly over itself.
6. The SSD might not be an SSD but an inferior product like EMC. This can result in performance issues loading.
7. The issue might not be the cpu or disk but the network. One of the relatives install a product that block addresses, but then kept adding to the list so that they had about a thousand sites. For every URL they access, the system had to validate it against 1000 entries or it could be something similar like slow network.

So my point is that the issue may not be due to the hardware. the OP could have had the top of the line machine and would still have issues. It would be better to try to diagnose the issue, but that would be somewhat difficult as another poster said over a forum. Should the OP bother? That would be up to him. I am willing to provide some help.
Is there a way to just use this all-in-one as a monitor to hook up to a desktop since it has a built-in camera and speakers, maybe by removing RAM and SSD, or is it a hassle?
roamingzebra
Posts: 1214
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:29 pm

Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by roamingzebra »

gavinsiu wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:07 pm
02nz wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:31 pm I'm surprised to hear that the N4020-powered PC feels "fast" and "responsive" - both of those processors are dog slow. I say this as someone who thinks people generally overestimate the importance of processor performance - having an SSD and enough RAM (minimum 8GB) is more important. But those processors are about half the speed (or less) of the processor of even an mid-range laptop from 5-6 years ago, and somewhere around 10% of the speed (not a typo) of a modern midrange laptop processor. I would consider them unacceptable today for all but the very, very lightest of uses (as in, one browser tab open at a time), at least for Windows.
This depends on the user’s expectations. I have a lot of experience with low end computer supporting family member with subpar hardware. My kids uses a low end Chromebook which is actually better than the even lower spec one they used at school. My mom runs a celeron chrome os. None of them complain about the speed. I also do browsing on an ancient amd.
Ditto wrt experience with low-end and subpar hardware and not having issues with them.

Back when I was using Windows, 90% of slowness issues were caused by an overly full disk (maybe more than 60%) or especially, a need to defrag the disk. I'm not even sure defragging is a thing anymore with Windows 10/11, but that always cured a host of slowness problems.

I also kept the number of non-essential running services down, but that was more because I like reducing bloat and clutter...it really didn't make that much of a difference with respect to slowness compared to the magic trick of defragging.
Topic Author
tallguy3891
Posts: 703
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:47 am

Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by tallguy3891 »

tallguy3891 wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:01 am
gavinsiu wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:27 am tallguy3891

were you able to check if your power setting is set not to power save?
There is no option to do so on the pc. Don't know if that is an S Mode thing or if there might be an update issue right now as mentioned elsewhere?
UPDATE: Although it was not in the usual place, I did find it and changed it to high performance. Made no difference.
Topic Author
tallguy3891
Posts: 703
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:47 am

Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by tallguy3891 »

gavinsiu wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:00 am
tallguy3891 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:29 pm This is interesting. Also interesting is that a 5 second delay rather than 1 second should be an issue for a rather basic pc user such as myself! For someone trying to get work done, sure. Even so, assuming it is a machine problem, is there any remedy, such as a new SSD and fresh OS install? Or should I not bother? Maybe I'll just hook up my smaller desktop with my good old fashioned solid monitor and separate speakers and attachable camera. It sure is nice when stuff just works you know...? It works great, but what a clutter.
Unless you use specialized task, you might not notice an increase in processing ability or even gpu ability. However GUI responsiness would be more noticable. A top of the line Intel i9 running a top of the line GPU like a Nividia 4090 would be sigificantly faster than an intel i3 if you are using it to play games, but if you are using it to browse the web, you might not notice that much of a difference. This is also subjective. Some users are sort of jaded by working on top of the line machines, they preceived minor lags as unexceptable.

In my opinion, the machine should work ok out of the box. I didn't have to make adjustments for any of the machines. The op mostly wanted to know if the issue is due to the nature of the machine or due to a defect. Based on his response that that he uses a Celeron on his other machine, I would say that there is a problem with his HP box. If the OP had said that his celeron was much slower than his Epyc box, then I would think it's because the machine is slow.

Even the top of the line machine may have issues, there could be a boat load of reasons, the trick is to diagnose them. Here's a few that could be the cause of the issue.
1. The machine's power profile might be set to maximize battery performance. The cpu is running at the minimal cpu speed, causing lags. One of the windows update recently cause a number of power profile to disappear.
2. There is a driver issue, causing endless interrupts. You notice this typically with choppy mouse response or various disk errors. This could be cause by an incorrect driver, or even a bad windows driver update.
3. There is a thermal issue where the fan is out or the thermal paste wasn't done properly. Whenever the user do anything, the cpu heats up and throttles. A family member dropped the computer, broke one of the fan so that only 1 fan was working.
4. One common issue is search indexing where the search service constantly run through the disk to index the file. This affects lower end machine more because the higher end machine might have 12 cores and can do more background tasks.
5. Another issue is antivirus running scans constantly over itself.
6. The SSD might not be an SSD but an inferior product like EMC. This can result in performance issues loading.
7. The issue might not be the cpu or disk but the network. One of the relatives install a product that block addresses, but then kept adding to the list so that they had about a thousand sites. For every URL they access, the system had to validate it against 1000 entries or it could be something similar like slow network.

So my point is that the issue may not be due to the hardware. the OP could have had the top of the line machine and would still have issues. It would be better to try to diagnose the issue, but that would be somewhat difficult as another poster said over a forum. Should the OP bother? That would be up to him. I am willing to provide some help.
Thanks for all the info. At this point the biggest issue is when clicking on any desktop shortcut icon, it takes 5 to 7 seconds to go to the site. Once there, it seems to bring up quickly what I request on Edge, as an example. It isn't the internet connection or speed because my other pc connects immediately.
safari
Posts: 651
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2021 1:23 pm

Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by safari »

tallguy3891 wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:19 pm
gavinsiu wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:00 am
tallguy3891 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:29 pm This is interesting. Also interesting is that a 5 second delay rather than 1 second should be an issue for a rather basic pc user such as myself! For someone trying to get work done, sure. Even so, assuming it is a machine problem, is there any remedy, such as a new SSD and fresh OS install? Or should I not bother? Maybe I'll just hook up my smaller desktop with my good old fashioned solid monitor and separate speakers and attachable camera. It sure is nice when stuff just works you know...? It works great, but what a clutter.
Unless you use specialized task, you might not notice an increase in processing ability or even gpu ability. However GUI responsiness would be more noticable. A top of the line Intel i9 running a top of the line GPU like a Nividia 4090 would be sigificantly faster than an intel i3 if you are using it to play games, but if you are using it to browse the web, you might not notice that much of a difference. This is also subjective. Some users are sort of jaded by working on top of the line machines, they preceived minor lags as unexceptable.

In my opinion, the machine should work ok out of the box. I didn't have to make adjustments for any of the machines. The op mostly wanted to know if the issue is due to the nature of the machine or due to a defect. Based on his response that that he uses a Celeron on his other machine, I would say that there is a problem with his HP box. If the OP had said that his celeron was much slower than his Epyc box, then I would think it's because the machine is slow.

Even the top of the line machine may have issues, there could be a boat load of reasons, the trick is to diagnose them. Here's a few that could be the cause of the issue.
1. The machine's power profile might be set to maximize battery performance. The cpu is running at the minimal cpu speed, causing lags. One of the windows update recently cause a number of power profile to disappear.
2. There is a driver issue, causing endless interrupts. You notice this typically with choppy mouse response or various disk errors. This could be cause by an incorrect driver, or even a bad windows driver update.
3. There is a thermal issue where the fan is out or the thermal paste wasn't done properly. Whenever the user do anything, the cpu heats up and throttles. A family member dropped the computer, broke one of the fan so that only 1 fan was working.
4. One common issue is search indexing where the search service constantly run through the disk to index the file. This affects lower end machine more because the higher end machine might have 12 cores and can do more background tasks.
5. Another issue is antivirus running scans constantly over itself.
6. The SSD might not be an SSD but an inferior product like EMC. This can result in performance issues loading.
7. The issue might not be the cpu or disk but the network. One of the relatives install a product that block addresses, but then kept adding to the list so that they had about a thousand sites. For every URL they access, the system had to validate it against 1000 entries or it could be something similar like slow network.

So my point is that the issue may not be due to the hardware. the OP could have had the top of the line machine and would still have issues. It would be better to try to diagnose the issue, but that would be somewhat difficult as another poster said over a forum. Should the OP bother? That would be up to him. I am willing to provide some help.
Thanks for all the info. At this point the biggest issue is when clicking on any desktop shortcut icon, it takes 5 to 7 seconds to go to the site. Once there, it seems to bring up quickly what I request on Edge, as an example. It isn't the internet connection or speed because my other pc connects immediately.
Can you try opening Edge from the Start menu, instead of clicking on the desktop shortcut, to see if it opens faster?
Topic Author
tallguy3891
Posts: 703
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:47 am

Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by tallguy3891 »

safari wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:35 pm
tallguy3891 wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:19 pm
gavinsiu wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:00 am
tallguy3891 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:29 pm This is interesting. Also interesting is that a 5 second delay rather than 1 second should be an issue for a rather basic pc user such as myself! For someone trying to get work done, sure. Even so, assuming it is a machine problem, is there any remedy, such as a new SSD and fresh OS install? Or should I not bother? Maybe I'll just hook up my smaller desktop with my good old fashioned solid monitor and separate speakers and attachable camera. It sure is nice when stuff just works you know...? It works great, but what a clutter.
Unless you use specialized task, you might not notice an increase in processing ability or even gpu ability. However GUI responsiness would be more noticable. A top of the line Intel i9 running a top of the line GPU like a Nividia 4090 would be sigificantly faster than an intel i3 if you are using it to play games, but if you are using it to browse the web, you might not notice that much of a difference. This is also subjective. Some users are sort of jaded by working on top of the line machines, they preceived minor lags as unexceptable.

In my opinion, the machine should work ok out of the box. I didn't have to make adjustments for any of the machines. The op mostly wanted to know if the issue is due to the nature of the machine or due to a defect. Based on his response that that he uses a Celeron on his other machine, I would say that there is a problem with his HP box. If the OP had said that his celeron was much slower than his Epyc box, then I would think it's because the machine is slow.

Even the top of the line machine may have issues, there could be a boat load of reasons, the trick is to diagnose them. Here's a few that could be the cause of the issue.
1. The machine's power profile might be set to maximize battery performance. The cpu is running at the minimal cpu speed, causing lags. One of the windows update recently cause a number of power profile to disappear.
2. There is a driver issue, causing endless interrupts. You notice this typically with choppy mouse response or various disk errors. This could be cause by an incorrect driver, or even a bad windows driver update.
3. There is a thermal issue where the fan is out or the thermal paste wasn't done properly. Whenever the user do anything, the cpu heats up and throttles. A family member dropped the computer, broke one of the fan so that only 1 fan was working.
4. One common issue is search indexing where the search service constantly run through the disk to index the file. This affects lower end machine more because the higher end machine might have 12 cores and can do more background tasks.
5. Another issue is antivirus running scans constantly over itself.
6. The SSD might not be an SSD but an inferior product like EMC. This can result in performance issues loading.
7. The issue might not be the cpu or disk but the network. One of the relatives install a product that block addresses, but then kept adding to the list so that they had about a thousand sites. For every URL they access, the system had to validate it against 1000 entries or it could be something similar like slow network.

So my point is that the issue may not be due to the hardware. the OP could have had the top of the line machine and would still have issues. It would be better to try to diagnose the issue, but that would be somewhat difficult as another poster said over a forum. Should the OP bother? That would be up to him. I am willing to provide some help.
Thanks for all the info. At this point the biggest issue is when clicking on any desktop shortcut icon, it takes 5 to 7 seconds to go to the site. Once there, it seems to bring up quickly what I request on Edge, as an example. It isn't the internet connection or speed because my other pc connects immediately.
Can you try opening Edge from the Start menu, instead of clicking on the desktop shortcut, to see if it opens faster?
No faster via Start Menu.
Topic Author
tallguy3891
Posts: 703
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by tallguy3891 »

roamingzebra wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:03 pm
gavinsiu wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:07 pm
02nz wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:31 pm I'm surprised to hear that the N4020-powered PC feels "fast" and "responsive" - both of those processors are dog slow. I say this as someone who thinks people generally overestimate the importance of processor performance - having an SSD and enough RAM (minimum 8GB) is more important. But those processors are about half the speed (or less) of the processor of even an mid-range laptop from 5-6 years ago, and somewhere around 10% of the speed (not a typo) of a modern midrange laptop processor. I would consider them unacceptable today for all but the very, very lightest of uses (as in, one browser tab open at a time), at least for Windows.
This depends on the user’s expectations. I have a lot of experience with low end computer supporting family member with subpar hardware. My kids uses a low end Chromebook which is actually better than the even lower spec one they used at school. My mom runs a celeron chrome os. None of them complain about the speed. I also do browsing on an ancient amd.
Ditto wrt experience with low-end and subpar hardware and not having issues with them.

Back when I was using Windows, 90% of slowness issues were caused by an overly full disk (maybe more than 60%) or especially, a need to defrag the disk. I'm not even sure defragging is a thing anymore with Windows 10/11, but that always cured a host of slowness problems.

I also kept the number of non-essential running services down, but that was more because I like reducing bloat and clutter...it really didn't make that much of a difference with respect to slowness compared to the magic trick of defragging.
Defrag made no difference, and I did remove bloat too.
02nz
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by 02nz »

roamingzebra wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:03 pm
gavinsiu wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:07 pm
02nz wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:31 pm I'm surprised to hear that the N4020-powered PC feels "fast" and "responsive" - both of those processors are dog slow. I say this as someone who thinks people generally overestimate the importance of processor performance - having an SSD and enough RAM (minimum 8GB) is more important. But those processors are about half the speed (or less) of the processor of even an mid-range laptop from 5-6 years ago, and somewhere around 10% of the speed (not a typo) of a modern midrange laptop processor. I would consider them unacceptable today for all but the very, very lightest of uses (as in, one browser tab open at a time), at least for Windows.
This depends on the user’s expectations. I have a lot of experience with low end computer supporting family member with subpar hardware. My kids uses a low end Chromebook which is actually better than the even lower spec one they used at school. My mom runs a celeron chrome os. None of them complain about the speed. I also do browsing on an ancient amd.
Ditto wrt experience with low-end and subpar hardware and not having issues with them.

Back when I was using Windows, 90% of slowness issues were caused by an overly full disk (maybe more than 60%) or especially, a need to defrag the disk. I'm not even sure defragging is a thing anymore with Windows 10/11, but that always cured a host of slowness problems.

I also kept the number of non-essential running services down, but that was more because I like reducing bloat and clutter...it really didn't make that much of a difference with respect to slowness compared to the magic trick of defragging.
Defragging is not a thing anymore on PCs with SSDs, as in OP's case. (The closest SSD equivalent is TRIM, but it doesn't usually make a huge difference to performance). A nearly full SSD (say <80%) can slow things down, so OP should check that. I would also check background processes, which can be a big source.

I think it's worth doing a Windows reset (Windows key + type Reset, click "Reset this PC"). This lets you start with a fresh, bloat-free install of Windows (well as bloat-free as Microsoft will allow) and see how that goes. Otherwise, upgrade to something more modern than the J4150, which can't even keep up with midrange processors from 10+ years ago.
tortoise84
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by tortoise84 »

tallguy3891 wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:19 pm At this point the biggest issue is when clicking on any desktop shortcut icon, it takes 5 to 7 seconds to go to the site. Once there, it seems to bring up quickly what I request on Edge, as an example. It isn't the internet connection or speed because my other pc connects immediately.
Actually it could still be an internet issue. Have you tried restarting your modem/router? Are you using Wi-Fi or Ethernet? I have seen issues where the router and devices get out of 'sync' with each other due to reinstalling Windows, or simply a device going to sleep, or leaving the house and going off Wi-Fi. Restarting the router usually resolves this.

Have you updated everything in the Microsoft Store as well as Windows Update?

But at the end of the day, a Celeron J4125 is very low end, and some websites have a lot of code for ads and tracking that could easily bog it down. You could try an ad blocker like uBlock Origin which I believe still works on Edge in Windows S Mode. Otherwise, it might be time to consider upgrading to a new PC.
safari
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by safari »

Is your Edge configured to open any particular page on start up? It may be taking a long time to load that page. Try changing the setting to open a new tab instead when Edge starts to see if it makes any difference.

Also check if you have the Startup Boost option enabled in Edge settings (under System & Performance).
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enad
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by enad »

tallguy3891 wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:00 am
enad wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:08 am
tallguy3891 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:29 pm This is interesting. Also interesting is that a 5 second delay rather than 1 second should be an issue for a rather basic pc user such as myself! For someone trying to get work done, sure. Even so, assuming it is a machine problem, is there any remedy, such as a new SSD and fresh OS install? Or should I not bother? Maybe I'll just hook up my smaller desktop with my good old fashioned solid monitor and separate speakers and attachable camera. It sure is nice when stuff just works you know...? It works great, but what a clutter.
How do you use your PC i.e. browser only to surf the net, check email, etc ..., Office products (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc ...) Games?
Light user. Some documents on WordPad, a few emails, mostly internet searches for info. Spouse also uses it for facebook.

Computer stuff is mostly a hobby for me at this point, for fun.
If you're not opposed to it, you can create a bootable USB flash drive that contains Linux Mint and enable boot from USB in the BIOS. When you boot Linux Mint from the flash drive, it will not harm Windows 11 as it just uses some RAM and you can test (play) with Linux Mint, try out the browser, use Libra-office (the office clone) and if you like the performance you can install it in the future either onto the existing drive (once you have copied all your personal data onto another flash drive) or onto another SSD.

If the performance is good it helps to validate your hardware as not being the issue

Here's a link to installing Linux Mint on a USB flash drive: https://linuxmint-installation-guide.re ... en/latest/
What Goes Up Must come down -- David Clayton-Thomas (1968), BST
twh
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by twh »

Just buy a Mac and don't look back!
gavinsiu
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by gavinsiu »

tallguy3891 wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:19 pm Thanks for all the info. At this point the biggest issue is when clicking on any desktop shortcut icon, it takes 5 to 7 seconds to go to the site. Once there, it seems to bring up quickly what I request on Edge, as an example. It isn't the internet connection or speed because my other pc connects immediately.
it could still be a network issue, just not the physical one. For example, if you are using wireless you could be sitting in a bad stop. You network driver could be not working properly (I had an incident where after a windows update the device driver, the network speed dropped to a really low speed). One way to test this is to run a browser on your computer and your wifes computer and then go to https://www.speedtest.net/ and run a speed test (but not at the same time). You should get similar results.

enad's idea of loading the machine with a linux distro is a pretty good one. If it runs quickly, then you can rule out the hardware. Alternatively, you can also do a OS reset and see if it clears up anything, but it's more of sledge hammer approach. I would systematically diagnose each area before I do that, but if you have done that so far, this may be a path to take.

I am still wondering if your disk is the issue. You do not need to defrag because you are using a SSD, but your file system can still get damaged. What happens if you run check disk, does it return any errors? Let me know if you don't know how to do that. Also check your event logs, does the system event log return any errors?
Target2019
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by Target2019 »

Is this a new computer?
User avatar
SmileyFace
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by SmileyFace »

If it were me I would turn off S mode - download Chrome - and go to the same pages you are going to with Edge and see if things still seem slow. If not - you can decide with S Mode with Edge are worth the speed penalty.
Topic Author
tallguy3891
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by tallguy3891 »

Target2019 wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:16 am Is this a new computer?
It is new.
Topic Author
tallguy3891
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by tallguy3891 »

Thank you all for your comments and taking time to help. I appreciate it very much. Everything I tried was to no avail so I will perhaps just use it as a last resort backup or something to practice things on or...
rgs92
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by rgs92 »

Years ago (like 7 years) I had some little Dell computer with a Celeron chip that was so slow it was virtually unusable. I actually had to throw it in the garbage shortly after I bought it. I swore never to go near a Celeron again.

I don't know how Intel could produce such a thing and I think they should have at least retired the Celeron-name if they redesigned it because I'm sure it had a bad reputation. It's the Edsel of chips.

I believe the Celeron was used widely in the now-defunct "Netbook" category of computers and I wonder if that is part of the reason that term has disappeared.
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enad
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by enad »

gavinsiu wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:09 am
tallguy3891 wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:19 pm Thanks for all the info. At this point the biggest issue is when clicking on any desktop shortcut icon, it takes 5 to 7 seconds to go to the site. Once there, it seems to bring up quickly what I request on Edge, as an example. It isn't the internet connection or speed because my other pc connects immediately.
it could still be a network issue, just not the physical one. For example, if you are using wireless you could be sitting in a bad stop. You network driver could be not working properly (I had an incident where after a windows update the device driver, the network speed dropped to a really low speed). One way to test this is to run a browser on your computer and your wifes computer and then go to https://www.speedtest.net/ and run a speed test (but not at the same time). You should get similar results.

enad's idea of loading the machine with a linux distro is a pretty good one. If it runs quickly, then you can rule out the hardware. Alternatively, you can also do a OS reset and see if it clears up anything, but it's more of sledge hammer approach. I would systematically diagnose each area before I do that, but if you have done that so far, this may be a path to take.

I am still wondering if your disk is the issue. You do not need to defrag because you are using a SSD, but your file system can still get damaged. What happens if you run check disk, does it return any errors? Let me know if you don't know how to do that. Also check your event logs, does the system event log return any errors?
gavinsu may be onto something. If your disk is the issue, a way to test it, is to download and install the free smartmontools for windows https://www.smartmontools.org/

Once you install it, open up a powershell or a command prompt (Run as administrator) and type:

smartctl -a /dev/sda

The results will be in 3 sections:

The 1st section is information (type of SSD, manufacture, model, S?N, firmware, etc ...)
The 2nd section is the reading of the S.M.A.R.T. data with an overall result (should be PASSED)
The 3rd section is details about the individual S.M.A.R.T. tests (parameters to look into are those with the word Error in them). Note the value and the threshold.

This is just one step in a process, but making and booting a Linux Live session and noting how responsive the PC is can help validate the hardware and isolate the problem to Windows or how it's configured.
What Goes Up Must come down -- David Clayton-Thomas (1968), BST
gavinsiu
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by gavinsiu »

rgs92 wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:26 pm Years ago (like 7 years) I had some little Dell computer with a Celeron chip that was so slow it was virtually unusable. I actually had to throw it in the garbage shortly after I bought it. I swore never to go near a Celeron again.

I don't know how Intel could produce such a thing and I think they should have at least retired the Celeron-name if they redesigned it because I'm sure it had a bad reputation. It's the Edsel of chips.

I believe the Celeron was used widely in the now-defunct "Netbook" category of computers and I wonder if that is part of the reason that term has disappeared.
Celeron is just a brand name. While it's always the low end, it can range from crappy cpu that you don't want to touch to cheap overclockable gaming cpu.
Target2019
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Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by Target2019 »

tallguy3891 wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:18 pm
Target2019 wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:16 am Is this a new computer?
It is new.
I've read in other replies that you really want to operate a computer in Safe Mode. So you'll need to accept what performance you get in that mode. There are many drivers that Safe Mode doesn't load. I am not an expert on that, but I know that the lack of a certain driver, or a corrupted one, can cause computer problems that are hard to diagnose.

Another thing really stands out for me. (I have over 30 years of PC support at the small business level). Memory of 4GB is inadequate, even though you have no doubt read that this is the minimum for Windows 11. This lack of the fastest memory space is an anchor, and when you try to drive, well...

Big companies are known to outfit consumer models with the barest specifications.

I wish you well with the computer.
gavinsiu
Posts: 4536
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:42 am

Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by gavinsiu »

Target2019 wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:20 am I've read in other replies that you really want to operate a computer in Safe Mode. So you'll need to accept what performance you get in that mode. There are many drivers that Safe Mode doesn't load. I am not an expert on that, but I know that the lack of a certain driver, or a corrupted one, can cause computer problems that are hard to diagnose.

Another thing really stands out for me. (I have over 30 years of PC support at the small business level). Memory of 4GB is inadequate, even though you have no doubt read that this is the minimum for Windows 11. This lack of the fastest memory space is an anchor, and when you try to drive, well...

Big companies are known to outfit consumer models with the barest specifications.

I wish you well with the computer.
S-mode isn't safe mode, but a specific mode to emulate ChromeOS. The OS is locked down so that they can't install any application from other than Microsoft Store and you are not allow to use any browser except Edge. There is no speed advantage or disadvantage in S mode except that because you can't install third party apps, the slow down you get from loading your PC with apps is slowed.
Second Round
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:16 am

Re: Computer Expertise Needed

Post by Second Round »

enad wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:15 pm If you're not opposed to it, you can create a bootable USB flash drive that contains Linux Mint and enable boot from USB in the BIOS.
Another vote for the free, no-strings-attached trial of Linux Mint via a "Live USB" stick. I've been on LM more or less 100% since Win 7 went out of support 3+ years ago, and never been happier, computer-wise. I run an old desktop tower PC from 2010, and it's still plenty fast.

Alternatively, I suggest you back up everything (personal files, and ensure you can reinstall any programs you have added) and do a factory reset on you machine, if possible. In the past, when I prepared old computers for donation, I would perform a factory reset (or restore?), and I'd be stunned at the massive improvement in speed/responsiveness that followed (to the point I almost regretted de-commissioning them!). They felt brand new.

The two biggest culprits (in terms of draining system resources) had been free anti-virus programs (don't get me started) and other background processes that I didn't specifically want/ask to be running. If you can figure out what is running in the background that you and the OS don't truly need (via task manager), and how to configure things so they don't run, then you may be able to rejuvenate your computer. At least, if and until all that overhead is added back (which typically doesn't happen on Linux).
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