Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

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cmr79
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by cmr79 »

Electrify America, Tesla Supercharger, and EVgo (the three largest charging networks) are all priced at below $0.50/kWh on average currently. Obviously some areas/markets are outliers, but that works in both directions...and many people have free DC fast charging for either lifetime (like earlier Tesla adopters) or for fixed periods (most non-Teslas seem to have some sort of introductory charging allowance for either 2-3 years or a certain number of free kWh included on specific "partner" networks).

If a vehicle can go 200-250 miles between stops and can charge 10-80% in under 20 minutes, I don't personally see that as negatively impacting its use for road trips. The real question with EVs is whether there are chargers where you need them and how reliable they are. Tesla has built out Superchargers in a thoughtful way and maintains them well, whereas other charging networks haven't and don't.

We have a non-Tesla EV that doesn't have a particularly large battery or long range and doesn't charge particularly quickly. It would be much more comfortable to drive a long distance in it vs our ICE vehicle, but it would certainly take more planning and would lengthen travel time a bit. For around-town driving, we ONLY use the ICE if we need to use two cars at once, which is a lot less common vs pre-pandemic now that one of us works from home.

Our next vehicle will be an EV with faster charging and more range (I'm banking on battery technology and DCFC networks improving between now and then), but for some of the places we travel, I can't argue that ICE still has a convenience advantage based on my own subjective criteria, but I do think for most people in the US it is a subjective--not objective--advantage. Not that many people outside of long-haul truck drivers regularly drive 300+ miles without stopping.
Gertrude
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by Gertrude »

I’d argue EVs are more convenient, as you have the gas station in your house if you have a home charger. Current federal tax gives you a 30% credit for the ev charger and installation. Seems like a no brainer.
harikaried
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by harikaried »

windaar wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:08 pm
harikaried wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:14 amWe've taken both our Teslas with friends on 1500+ mile road trips as it was much preferred over driving ICE.
I’ve heard tortured (and unconvincing) arguments that an EV is “as good” as ICE for a road trip, but preferable? By what stretch? This assertion needs a LOT of explanation.
Maybe the road trips we take are different from yours, but quite literally our friends have asked to drive our Tesla for multiple road trips instead of driving their relatively new ICE vehicle.

Looking at the longest trip we've done together, each day we generally drove for about 2.5 hours in the morning then charged while eating lunch then another 2.5 hour drive before picking up groceries/food for dinner while charging. We didn't plan out the mid-day stops and overnight stays based on the Tesla range and charging, but at least for most of our routes, there was a Supercharger station maybe every 20-30 miles, so we had plenty of flexibility to choose where to take the lunch breaks, etc. The main limiting factor was how long we wanted to keep kids in the car, so that's why lodging was about 300 miles apart with locations picked convenient to national parks and other points of interest. A bonus was charging overnight with regular wall outlets that both vehicles were fully charged when starting the return portion of the trip.

I think what you're getting at is one could fill-up-n-go faster and cover more distance with ICE in the same time (e.g., average 77mph), so if that is the limiting factor for you, then maybe the "extra" 10% time charging (15 minutes for 150 minutes of driving; ~70mph) is too much. At least for us, it's preferable to stop to have the kids take breaks and eat outside of the car, so that takes longer than what's needed to charge. Sometimes I even drop off the family, walk from/to the Supercharger and pick them up, and the car is charged and ready before them, so there isn't really any "extra" time for charging in these cases.

Overall for us, the "inconvenience" of road-trip charging is much outweighed by the other benefits of driving the Teslas over ICE.
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Midpack
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by Midpack »

Journeyman510 wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:51 pm When I bought my EV I considered the cost of the L2 charger and installation part of the overall cost of the car.

I frankly don't understand buying a 40-50k car and then balking at 1.5k for the charger and install.
+100. We got lucky and got a 50amp service with a commercial grade 240V outlet (DO NOT install a $10 Home Depot dryer outlet or a 20A circuit for EV charging) installed in our garage for $485, all parts and labor. With the $230 mobile connector we're all set charging at home. We could also take the mobile connector on trips and charge anywhere (many RV parks have 240V outlets), but there is no need as the Tesla Supercharger network is ideal. The reliability issues with on the road charging have been with Electrify America and the other non Tesla chargers. And the Tesla route planner makes longer trip planning effortless. Shows you optimal stops, how long to charge (not to 100%) and even real time charger availability.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

harikaried wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:25 pm
windaar wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:08 pm
harikaried wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:14 amWe've taken both our Teslas with friends on 1500+ mile road trips as it was much preferred over driving ICE.
I’ve heard tortured (and unconvincing) arguments that an EV is “as good” as ICE for a road trip, but preferable? By what stretch? This assertion needs a LOT of explanation.
Maybe the road trips we take are different from yours, but quite literally our friends have asked to drive our Tesla for multiple road trips instead of driving their relatively new ICE vehicle.
I’d better not let my friends know that I have free lifetime charging on my Tesla. I still charge 99% at home, but it’s nice.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
harikaried
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by harikaried »

Midpack wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:56 pmWe could also take the mobile connector on trips and charge anywhere (many RV parks have 240V outlets)
This was actually a slight inconvenience for us a few years ago. We've never used RV park charging / hook-up before, and turns out the one we stayed at had I believe 3-pronged 10-30 outlets incompatible with our 14-50 adapter. The spot was actually for a friend's RV while we stayed in a cabin that had an unused 240V outlet where a drying machine used to be, but it was I believe a 4-pronged 14-30 so also incompatible. Fortunately, the electric stove used 14-50, so we were able to faster charge the car with the mobile connector.

We were planning on just using a regular 120V wall outlet to recharge while we stayed at the campground, so it would have been fine but could have cut into some of the further places to visit. Good thing we were able to charge with 240V as our friends nearly needed us to make an extra trip into the forest to bring over some gas as they ended up at a gas station that was no longer in service.

Since then, Tesla has built Superchargers closer to this destination, so there's even less need to charge at the campground.
hunoraut
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by hunoraut »

cmr79 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:50 pm Not that many people outside of long-haul truck drivers regularly drive 300+ miles without stopping.
The “torturous” argument I see in threads like these, is people claiming that they do.

Not just 300+ miles, but their body-on-frame SUV and trucks with capacity 500+ miles which they apparently do end-to-end, with regularity.

So first, apparently their vehicle is always fueled up so it’s always covers an entire trip at any time. Secondly, their driving time is literally an entire workdays worth of hours, tied to a single seat, without a break? Hmmm

On longgg road trips with friends I remember stopping for lunch. Goofing off and shopping for snacks at gas station. Stretching the legs at rest stops and scenic pullovers. (And when driving solo…nap breaks)

Basically, lots of non-driving time not mandated by fuel stops alone. I dont think that that was a minority experience.

With EV the charges are coincident with those stops. Its not better. Its not worse. Net to net the total time isnt shorter. Its probably *marginally* longer. In the **context** of my real world long drive (which isnt to deliver an organ transplant), the time delta is inconsequential.
BuckyBadger
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by BuckyBadger »

Chiming in - but you've gotten good responses!

I have a MYLR. Bought a M3LR in in 2019 and loved it, but when the small badger got bigger and her stuff got bigger, we decided to get a bigger car. I looked at all the new EVs available at the time - which are looking great!! EV6, Ioniq, Mach-E, and a few others. Decided that after having a Tesla, we weren't ready to let go of some of the tech and the supercharger access, so found a great used MYLR. (Some of the intangibles that I couldn't give up are silly tech things - using your phone as a key, the app that lets you precondition the car, Dog Mode, Camp Mode, the entertainment stuff that keeps kiddo occupied when one parent is running an errand and the other parent is waiting in the car with her... That stuff is really easy to get used to and hard to give up.)

We charge primarily at home. I got a dryer outlet installed in the garage for about $300 and it charges me to 80% every night. It is our primary car for mid-range road trips (one-day trips). It's a joy, and with a 4.5 year old, the charging stops aren't a problem at all. She needs to run around a few times anyway, and we usually have to eat a meal, so it really no loss of time for us. The charging is so fast that I usually have to run out and move the car to avoid idle fees.

Our second car is a Kia Telluride. We do use that one on the one large trip we take each year, but it's more because it's a bigger car that because it's and ICE. That trip we make over 2 days and we're considering packing less next time and taking the Tesla.

And charging inconvenience is so vastly overshadowed by the increased pleasure of driving an EV - most modern EVs, actually, not just Teslas. The comfort and safety from the feel of instantaneous power under your foot and the response from the "go" pedal can't be overstated. The smooth and effortless consistent acceleration. I am the primary driver of the Tesla and whenever I have to drive the Telluride - which I think is an EXCELLENT car - I feel like a dinosaur (one of the slow ones).

When it's time to replace the Telluride I'm sure it'll ne replaced with another EV, although likely not another Tesla. By then, fast charging networks will be ubiquitous and there will be no need to be tied to the Tesla supercharging network.
mervinj7
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by mervinj7 »

BuckyBadger wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:46 am Chiming in - but you've gotten good responses!

I have a MYLR. Bought a M3LR in in 2019 and loved it, but when the small badger got bigger and her stuff got bigger, we decided to get a bigger car. I looked at all the new EVs available at the time - which are looking great!! EV6, Ioniq, Mach-E, and a few others. Decided that after having a Tesla, we weren't ready to let go of some of the tech and the supercharger access, so found a great used MYLR. (Some of the intangibles that I couldn't give up are silly tech things - using your phone as a key, the app that lets you precondition the car, Dog Mode, Camp Mode, the entertainment stuff that keeps kiddo occupied when one parent is running an errand and the other parent is waiting in the car with her... That stuff is really easy to get used to and hard to give up.)

We charge primarily at home. I got a dryer outlet installed in the garage for about $300 and it charges me to 80% every night. It is our primary car for mid-range road trips (one-day trips). It's a joy, and with a 4.5 year old, the charging stops aren't a problem at all. She needs to run around a few times anyway, and we usually have to eat a meal, so it really no loss of time for us. The charging is so fast that I usually have to run out and move the car to avoid idle fees.

Our second car is a Kia Telluride. We do use that one on the one large trip we take each year, but it's more because it's a bigger car that because it's and ICE. That trip we make over 2 days and we're considering packing less next time and taking the Tesla.

And charging inconvenience is so vastly overshadowed by the increased pleasure of driving an EV - most modern EVs, actually, not just Teslas. The comfort and safety from the feel of instantaneous power under your foot and the response from the "go" pedal can't be overstated. The smooth and effortless consistent acceleration. I am the primary driver of the Tesla and whenever I have to drive the Telluride - which I think is an EXCELLENT car - I feel like a dinosaur (one of the slow ones).

When it's time to replace the Telluride I'm sure it'll ne replaced with another EV, although likely not another Tesla. By then, fast charging networks will be ubiquitous and there will be no need to be tied to the Tesla supercharging network.
Beautiful post! We ended up getting the ID4 but after the most recent price cuts we were wondering if we should have gotten the MYLR instead. For extra storage, have you considered getting a cargo box on the roof?
lottadot
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by lottadot »

We have a Tesla Model 3P- (aka "Stealth").

Inconveniences are rare. We are in north Texas & there used to be a vast charging hole in Oklahoma/N Texas/Arkansas. It made traveling to both (which we do, for family, etc) overly stressful. Over the ~3 years that we've owned it, this situation has improved quite a bit in all three states.

I recommend you visit https://abetterrouteplanner.com . Plug in your vehicle model you'd purchase, then plan a few of your "example" road trips. It'll show you stops, total times, etc. If the results from that seem reasonable then go for it!
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retireIn2020
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by retireIn2020 »

CC1E wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:01 pm The Tesla Supercharger network is excellent, so road tripping should not be an issue. I like to take a break every 200 miles, so waiting 20 minutes for a supercharge while I get some food has never been an issue.

Not having a Level-2 charger would be annoying. Depending on your drinking habits you may get by with Level-1 charging (120v outlet), especially if it’s a 20 amp circuit.
Niece and her fiancé, took a trip from a midwest city to Dallas in his Tesla a couple months ago, they got real stressed out locating a charging station and ended up driving over 100 miles out of the way just for a charge! No thank you, not yet anyway.
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athan
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by athan »

cmr79 wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:04 pm
climber2020 wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:46 pm How easy is it to repair a Tesla when you inevitably crash it? Can you take it to a regular mechanic or body shop?

My driving skills are garbage so this is a very important factor in choosing a car.
Sounds like a better question for someone with self-acknowledged poor driving skills would be to ask what vehicles have the best driver assistance technology. Tesla's FSD is not the leader in this category, despite what their poor naming schemes might suggest; Mercedes probably is the best overall, but GM and Ford systems are pretty good on mapped roads it seems.

https://www.engadget.com/mercedes-first ... 21118.html
Although this is not a driver assist discussion, it is becoming pretty evident to me that Tesla is by far the leader with their camera based AI. Just look at the newest YouTube/Twitter FSD drives to see real world self driving.

Obviously do your own research, but there are thousands of Tesla self driving videos. Some great, some not so great. But the accident/fatality rates for FSD are pretty convincing.

If Mercedes or Ford or whoever else was really leading, i think you’d see their driving videos all over YouTube and social media.
mervinj7
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by mervinj7 »

retireIn2020 wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 12:38 am
CC1E wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:01 pm The Tesla Supercharger network is excellent, so road tripping should not be an issue. I like to take a break every 200 miles, so waiting 20 minutes for a supercharge while I get some food has never been an issue.

Not having a Level-2 charger would be annoying. Depending on your drinking habits you may get by with Level-1 charging (120v outlet), especially if it’s a 20 amp circuit.
Niece and her fiancé, took a trip from a midwest city to Dallas in his Tesla a couple months ago, they got real stressed out locating a charging station and ended up driving over 100 miles out of the way just for a charge! No thank you, not yet anyway.
Which Midwest city was it? As a Californian, I've been dangerously spoiled by our charging infrastructure but from reading these posts there seems to be many states that are anti-EVs.
CC1E
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by CC1E »

retireIn2020 wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 12:38 am
CC1E wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:01 pm The Tesla Supercharger network is excellent, so road tripping should not be an issue. I like to take a break every 200 miles, so waiting 20 minutes for a supercharge while I get some food has never been an issue.

Not having a Level-2 charger would be annoying. Depending on your drinking habits you may get by with Level-1 charging (120v outlet), especially if it’s a 20 amp circuit.
Niece and her fiancé, took a trip from a midwest city to Dallas in his Tesla a couple months ago, they got real stressed out locating a charging station and ended up driving over 100 miles out of the way just for a charge! No thank you, not yet anyway.
With any other EV I would agree, since the other fast charging networks aren’t well maintained. You never know if there will be a working charger available. But the Tesla Supercharger network is massive and very well maintained. There is no rational reason to panic while traveling on any US interstate. Tesla knows where the superchargers are and will tell where to stop and how much charge is needed for the next leg.
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by stoptothink »

mervinj7 wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:35 am
retireIn2020 wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 12:38 am
CC1E wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:01 pm The Tesla Supercharger network is excellent, so road tripping should not be an issue. I like to take a break every 200 miles, so waiting 20 minutes for a supercharge while I get some food has never been an issue.

Not having a Level-2 charger would be annoying. Depending on your drinking habits you may get by with Level-1 charging (120v outlet), especially if it’s a 20 amp circuit.
Niece and her fiancé, took a trip from a midwest city to Dallas in his Tesla a couple months ago, they got real stressed out locating a charging station and ended up driving over 100 miles out of the way just for a charge! No thank you, not yet anyway.
Which Midwest city was it? As a Californian, I've been dangerously spoiled by our charging infrastructure but from reading these posts there seems to be many states that are anti-EVs.
Anti-EV :confused That's an odd way to describe areas where private companies have decided it is not yet financially beneficial for them to construct charging stations. Even some states that have tax incentives for purchasing EVs do not have robust charging infrastructure yet. Yes, everywhere is not California.
TravellingTechOnFire
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by TravellingTechOnFire »

stoptothink wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:09 am
mervinj7 wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:35 am
retireIn2020 wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 12:38 am
CC1E wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:01 pm The Tesla Supercharger network is excellent, so road tripping should not be an issue. I like to take a break every 200 miles, so waiting 20 minutes for a supercharge while I get some food has never been an issue.

Not having a Level-2 charger would be annoying. Depending on your drinking habits you may get by with Level-1 charging (120v outlet), especially if it’s a 20 amp circuit.
Niece and her fiancé, took a trip from a midwest city to Dallas in his Tesla a couple months ago, they got real stressed out locating a charging station and ended up driving over 100 miles out of the way just for a charge! No thank you, not yet anyway.
Which Midwest city was it? As a Californian, I've been dangerously spoiled by our charging infrastructure but from reading these posts there seems to be many states that are anti-EVs.
Anti-EV :confused That's an odd way to describe areas where private companies have decided it is not yet financially beneficial for them to construct charging stations. Even some states that have tax incentives for purchasing EVs do not have robust charging infrastructure yet. Yes, everywhere is not California.
https://www.wane.com/automotive/wyoming ... s-by-2035/

To suggest that there is not some anti-EV sentiment is a bit naive, or at least completely unaware of how much pushback exists in regards to EV adoption by some.
sc9182
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by sc9182 »

I think in Texas - Tesla EVs (and Tesla solar roof/PVs) get ZERO tax credits/benefits. Guess energy industry in TX is a bit powerful for uncle Musk to be able to crack.. (despite the fact he brought billions of $ investments/factories and 10s of thousands of jobs AND SpaceX to TX)

If that is not anti-EV sentiment — color me..
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

TravellingTechOnFire wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:43 am
To suggest that there is not some anti-EV sentiment is a bit naive, or at least completely unaware of how much pushback exists in regards to EV adoption by some.
Heck, there might even be some anti-EV sentiment to be found among BHs. :twisted:
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
stoptothink
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by stoptothink »

TravellingTechOnFire wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:43 am
stoptothink wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:09 am
mervinj7 wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:35 am
retireIn2020 wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 12:38 am
CC1E wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:01 pm The Tesla Supercharger network is excellent, so road tripping should not be an issue. I like to take a break every 200 miles, so waiting 20 minutes for a supercharge while I get some food has never been an issue.

Not having a Level-2 charger would be annoying. Depending on your drinking habits you may get by with Level-1 charging (120v outlet), especially if it’s a 20 amp circuit.
Niece and her fiancé, took a trip from a midwest city to Dallas in his Tesla a couple months ago, they got real stressed out locating a charging station and ended up driving over 100 miles out of the way just for a charge! No thank you, not yet anyway.
Which Midwest city was it? As a Californian, I've been dangerously spoiled by our charging infrastructure but from reading these posts there seems to be many states that are anti-EVs.
Anti-EV :confused That's an odd way to describe areas where private companies have decided it is not yet financially beneficial for them to construct charging stations. Even some states that have tax incentives for purchasing EVs do not have robust charging infrastructure yet. Yes, everywhere is not California.
https://www.wane.com/automotive/wyoming ... s-by-2035/

To suggest that there is not some anti-EV sentiment is a bit naive, or at least completely unaware of how much pushback exists in regards to EV adoption by some.
Not only has that bill not passed, but even if it did (which is extremely doubtful) it is not actually proposing that all EV sales would stop within the state:

"Should the bill pass into law, there won’t necessarily be a ban on sale of EVs in Wyoming, as one of the clauses states the legislature would only encourage the ban and express it as a goal. This points to the bill being more of a political stunt rather than a serious attempt to ban EV sales in the state. There’s even a clause that the bill, should it pass, would need to be sent to the president of the U.S., the Speaker of the House of Representatives, and the governor of California."

It's a political stunt by a few politicians who have obvious financial incentives and it still isn't even proposing preventing private companies from putting chargers on site or building public charging stations. Entities investing in charging stations is just not financially viable yet in many areas, so they aren't being built. It's apparently not financially viable in my area of Utah (charging stations are few and far between) and the number of EVs here per capita is more than twice the national average. I guess my interpretation of what "anti-EV" means is different.

FWIW, I'm very pro-EV myself.
mark_in_denver
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by mark_in_denver »

Op,
If you don't have a Tesla, road trip charging will be hit and miss at best. We decided not to buy a BEV because I didn't want the added stress and hassle on road trips. I also don't want to be forced to eat at crappy restaurants just because it's next to a EA charger.

Unlike some others I also don't think it's appealing sitting in Walmart parking lots for an hour waiting. EA chargers are notorious for lack of reliability so you'll have to unplug and try other chargers too. Not everyone charging is charming either. 4 EA chargers, 2 busted, 1 slow and 1 occupied by someone charging to 100%, now you're hosed.

There's been a handful of times I forgot to plug in at home, work or other things go wrong. Yesterday after work I walked out to my car, got in and there was no charge. Something happened to the charger but since it's a plugin hybrid it wasn't a big deal. There's been a handful of times in the past several years that I have forgotten to plugin or someone else has. When I see someone forgot to plugin at work, I'll plug them in.
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retireIn2020
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by retireIn2020 »

mervinj7 wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:35 am
retireIn2020 wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 12:38 am
CC1E wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:01 pm The Tesla Supercharger network is excellent, so road tripping should not be an issue. I like to take a break every 200 miles, so waiting 20 minutes for a supercharge while I get some food has never been an issue.

Not having a Level-2 charger would be annoying. Depending on your drinking habits you may get by with Level-1 charging (120v outlet), especially if it’s a 20 amp circuit.
Niece and her fiancé, took a trip from a midwest city to Dallas in his Tesla a couple months ago, they got real stressed out locating a charging station and ended up driving over 100 miles out of the way just for a charge! No thank you, not yet anyway.
Which Midwest city was it? As a Californian, I've been dangerously spoiled by our charging infrastructure but from reading these posts there seems to be many states that are anti-EVs.
Southern IL through Missouri and Oklahoma. I don't think they are anti EV states, just allot of rural area.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abide
YeahBuddy
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by YeahBuddy »

Gertrude wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:57 pm I’d argue EVs are more convenient, as you have the gas station in your house if you have a home charger. Current federal tax gives you a 30% credit for the ev charger and installation. Seems like a no brainer.

Can you provide a link to that credit? I thought that was the solar credit, which I already took advantage of. Is there a cap on installation cost?
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bookworm
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by bookworm »

I have had a Model 3 for 4 years and have really enjoyed it - We have taken multiple thousand mile plus road trips - I really like the basic autopilot out on uncrowded highways - a very relaxing way to drive.

I use the website / app https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ and have found it to be very accurate as a trip planner. It will optimize charging stops and includes weather. I recommend you load the model 3 you are thinking about purchasing into the planner and testing your proposed trips - it will give you a fairly good estimate of the charging time.

One more thing for road trips - finding a hotel with chargers is very helpful, so you can start every day with a 90% charge. I am a Hilton rewards member and they allow searching using EV charging as an amenity - the Hampton Inn's have the most chargers.

Agree a 120V plug will work but 240V provides more flexibility - members of my local Tesla owners group have shared wildly different quotes from electricians for the same installation - would get recommendations from your local owners group and get a quote for installation if you have not and see what it costs after utility/state/federal incentives.
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Gertrude
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by Gertrude »

RobLyons wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:06 am
Gertrude wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:57 pm I’d argue EVs are more convenient, as you have the gas station in your house if you have a home charger. Current federal tax gives you a 30% credit for the ev charger and installation. Seems like a no brainer.

Can you provide a link to that credit? I thought that was the solar credit, which I already took advantage of. Is there a cap on installation cost?
Sorry just saw your reply. This is the article I was looking at: https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/605201/ ... e-chargers
mark_in_denver
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by mark_in_denver »

SeattleLaw wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:15 pm We are still considering a Tesla Model 3 to replace one of our ICE cars. I'm curious, from real Tesla/EV owners, how inconvenient are they in real life? We don't want to invest in a garage charger yet because it'll be a massive and somewhat expensive project based on where our circuit breaker is currently located. We do have an EVgo station about a half mile from the house. I imagine I'd be able to go quite a long time between charges in normal day to day use.

Most of my driving is city, but I will need my car to be able to make a ~550 mile road trip (each way). Yes, there are supercharges along most of the route, but how long does it really take to charge the car? And anecdotally, from a few people, I've heard that road trips are an immense hassle between the few Superchargers being taken, chargers being broken, or it taking a lot longer to charge than advertised.
I would rent a Tesla on Turo or the likes and try it out yourself.
The way I look at it is, Tesla is the best you can do on a roadtrip from an EV perspective but it's not like filling up with gas that takes a whole 4 minutes and with gas stations everywhere. Anything for fast charging with CCS will be a frustrating experience at best, and you'll probably get close to being stranded in time. I wouldn't even think of a road-trip with a non-Tesla, it can turn your roadtrip into a total stressor esp with many EA chargers always busted. Oh, and they're usually located at Walmart parking lots, so not exactly a place I'd want to sit and wait an hour every couple of hours of driving.
cmr79
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by cmr79 »

mark_in_denver wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 9:15 pm
SeattleLaw wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:15 pm We are still considering a Tesla Model 3 to replace one of our ICE cars. I'm curious, from real Tesla/EV owners, how inconvenient are they in real life? We don't want to invest in a garage charger yet because it'll be a massive and somewhat expensive project based on where our circuit breaker is currently located. We do have an EVgo station about a half mile from the house. I imagine I'd be able to go quite a long time between charges in normal day to day use.

Most of my driving is city, but I will need my car to be able to make a ~550 mile road trip (each way). Yes, there are supercharges along most of the route, but how long does it really take to charge the car? And anecdotally, from a few people, I've heard that road trips are an immense hassle between the few Superchargers being taken, chargers being broken, or it taking a lot longer to charge than advertised.
I would rent a Tesla on Turo or the likes and try it out yourself.
The way I look at it is, Tesla is the best you can do on a roadtrip from an EV perspective but it's not like filling up with gas that takes a whole 4 minutes and with gas stations everywhere. Anything for fast charging with CCS will be a frustrating experience at best, and you'll probably get close to being stranded in time. I wouldn't even think of a road-trip with a non-Tesla, it can turn your roadtrip into a total stressor esp with many EA chargers always busted. Oh, and they're usually located at Walmart parking lots, so not exactly a place I'd want to sit and wait an hour every couple of hours of driving.
If you are charging for an hour at a DCFC, you are probably doing it wrong.
mark_in_denver
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by mark_in_denver »

cmr79 wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 9:59 pm
mark_in_denver wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 9:15 pm
SeattleLaw wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:15 pm We are still considering a Tesla Model 3 to replace one of our ICE cars. I'm curious, from real Tesla/EV owners, how inconvenient are they in real life? We don't want to invest in a garage charger yet because it'll be a massive and somewhat expensive project based on where our circuit breaker is currently located. We do have an EVgo station about a half mile from the house. I imagine I'd be able to go quite a long time between charges in normal day to day use.

Most of my driving is city, but I will need my car to be able to make a ~550 mile road trip (each way). Yes, there are supercharges along most of the route, but how long does it really take to charge the car? And anecdotally, from a few people, I've heard that road trips are an immense hassle between the few Superchargers being taken, chargers being broken, or it taking a lot longer to charge than advertised.
I would rent a Tesla on Turo or the likes and try it out yourself.
The way I look at it is, Tesla is the best you can do on a roadtrip from an EV perspective but it's not like filling up with gas that takes a whole 4 minutes and with gas stations everywhere. Anything for fast charging with CCS will be a frustrating experience at best, and you'll probably get close to being stranded in time. I wouldn't even think of a road-trip with a non-Tesla, it can turn your roadtrip into a total stressor esp with many EA chargers always busted. Oh, and they're usually located at Walmart parking lots, so not exactly a place I'd want to sit and wait an hour every couple of hours of driving.
If you are charging for an hour at a DCFC, you are probably doing it wrong.
Or much more likely the charging process is slow....or it starts fast then drops off...or you switch from charger to charger because 3 out of 4 don't charge fast....etc, etc etc.
cmr79
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by cmr79 »

mark_in_denver wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:51 pm
cmr79 wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 9:59 pm
mark_in_denver wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 9:15 pm
SeattleLaw wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:15 pm We are still considering a Tesla Model 3 to replace one of our ICE cars. I'm curious, from real Tesla/EV owners, how inconvenient are they in real life? We don't want to invest in a garage charger yet because it'll be a massive and somewhat expensive project based on where our circuit breaker is currently located. We do have an EVgo station about a half mile from the house. I imagine I'd be able to go quite a long time between charges in normal day to day use.

Most of my driving is city, but I will need my car to be able to make a ~550 mile road trip (each way). Yes, there are supercharges along most of the route, but how long does it really take to charge the car? And anecdotally, from a few people, I've heard that road trips are an immense hassle between the few Superchargers being taken, chargers being broken, or it taking a lot longer to charge than advertised.
I would rent a Tesla on Turo or the likes and try it out yourself.
The way I look at it is, Tesla is the best you can do on a roadtrip from an EV perspective but it's not like filling up with gas that takes a whole 4 minutes and with gas stations everywhere. Anything for fast charging with CCS will be a frustrating experience at best, and you'll probably get close to being stranded in time. I wouldn't even think of a road-trip with a non-Tesla, it can turn your roadtrip into a total stressor esp with many EA chargers always busted. Oh, and they're usually located at Walmart parking lots, so not exactly a place I'd want to sit and wait an hour every couple of hours of driving.
If you are charging for an hour at a DCFC, you are probably doing it wrong.
Or much more likely the charging process is slow....or it starts fast then drops off...or you switch from charger to charger because 3 out of 4 don't charge fast....etc, etc etc.
This is the issue, but the problem is people understanding it. Charging at a DCFC to 100% is a bad idea because the charging rate, as with any device with a lithium ion battery, will drop off substantially as the battery nears a full charge. Fewer places for the electrons to go*. If you start charging from a low state of charge, say 10%, and charge to the minimum amount to get you to the next charger with 10% remaining, say 60%, you might be stopping for 15 minutes every two hours even if you only have access to "slower" 150 kW fast chargers.

The only time the slow charging between 80-100% of the battery's capacity is actually a problem is when you need every mile of range to make it from one charging port to another (and when that leg of the trip isn't the first of the day, since charging to 100% isn't an issue when you do it on a level 1 or level 2 destination charger.

*Yes, not how it actually works, but a good enough visualization for most people for whom this is a new concept.
TravellingTechOnFire
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by TravellingTechOnFire »

Carguy85 wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:08 pm Interesting…was just thinking about this topic while at the gas pump yesterday (I hate going inside gas stations) and how I was refueling 100 miles a minute in my truck and it was almost not fast enough….guess I’m impatient. I did see a new Lightning on the interstate yesterday…although it had me thinking because he was going much slower than traffic with a worried look on his face.
You should definitely get an EV then, you won't have to waste all the time and money at a gas station any more. Much faster. And you have a truck...so very expensive for gas. I pay $3.50 to drive 100 miles. Soon to be free once solar goes up. So happy it only takes me 5 seconds to plug my car in rather than wasting a bunch of time at gas stations.
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by wizardofoz1 »

I would recommend a non-Tesla. I was passenger the other day in a Model 3, jarring ride, too noisey, rough ride, no passenger lumbar support, no ultrasound parking sensors and no proper blind spot sensor.

Got a headache after the ride!
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by TheOscarGuy »

SeattleLaw wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:15 pm We are still considering a Tesla Model 3 to replace one of our ICE cars. I'm curious, from real Tesla/EV owners, how inconvenient are they in real life? We don't want to invest in a garage charger yet because it'll be a massive and somewhat expensive project based on where our circuit breaker is currently located. We do have an EVgo station about a half mile from the house. I imagine I'd be able to go quite a long time between charges in normal day to day use.

Most of my driving is city, but I will need my car to be able to make a ~550 mile road trip (each way). Yes, there are supercharges along most of the route, but how long does it really take to charge the car? And anecdotally, from a few people, I've heard that road trips are an immense hassle between the few Superchargers being taken, chargers being broken, or it taking a lot longer to charge than advertised.
very convenient
On road trips and daily.
Tesla tells you where to stop when gps is on for charging.
I have home wall charger FWIW.
It has its flaws for sure, but AFA charging goes I have no issues.
I live in northeast, maybe not many charging spots elsewhere in the country?
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by TheOscarGuy »

wizardofoz1 wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 8:56 pm I would recommend a non-Tesla. I was passenger the other day in a Model 3, jarring ride, too noisey, rough ride, no passenger lumbar support, no ultrasound parking sensors and no proper blind spot sensor.

Got a headache after the ride!
you didnt see the camera when car makes a turn, showing you whats in blind spot?
jarring ride and rough ride are same thing I think :happy
I have performance model Y. It felt like so initially but after owning it we love it. The car feels sure footed. Its always a balance between soft cushy suspension that is removed from the road and better handling but rough ride. Its not a tesla thing I dont think.
no parking sensors? my car complains every time i get too close to an object while parking. I have my settings all the way down so it doesnt complain as much but I still hear if i am too close to something.
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by beardsicles »

After a relatively decent period owning an EV and having recently rented a gas car again, I honestly think the inconveniences of a gas car outweigh the inconveniences of an EV. We've all just gotten socialized/used to the inconveniences of gas cars so we don't think about them anymore.

It's incredible never going to gas stations, standing outside shivering in the cold. It's incredible never wondering if I need to stop to get gas because my car is always charged. It's amazing driving a car that accelerates smoothly, and I love how quiet it is. Driving or riding in gas cars is honestly kind of a miserable experience now just from a noise perspective.

Gas cars are kind of an unpleasant experience once you spend any significant time with an EV. Sure, EVs have their inconveniences, but I prefer that set of foibles.
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by cmr79 »

beardsicles wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 10:44 am After a relatively decent period owning an EV and having recently rented a gas car again, I honestly think the inconveniences of a gas car outweigh the inconveniences of an EV. We've all just gotten socialized/used to the inconveniences of gas cars so we don't think about them anymore.

It's incredible never going to gas stations, standing outside shivering in the cold. It's incredible never wondering if I need to stop to get gas because my car is always charged. It's amazing driving a car that accelerates smoothly, and I love how quiet it is. Driving or riding in gas cars is honestly kind of a miserable experience now just from a noise perspective.

Gas cars are kind of an unpleasant experience once you spend any significant time with an EV. Sure, EVs have their inconveniences, but I prefer that set of foibles.
Having driven both the EV and ICE versions of the same vehicle for extended periods back to back to back, these are by far the biggest differences. Even with a modern 8-speed automatic transmission in a luxury vehicle, accelerating from a stop feels choppy in an ICE in comparison, and I have trouble hearing our soft-spoken 5yo in the back seat over engine noise. The EV drivetrain is smooth, and the vehicle is so much more quiet that I don't have to ask her to repeat herself at all. The EV version also feels more stable around turns due to it's lower center of gravity.

I understand that some people like the engine roar and transmission characteristics of ICE vehicles, but for me personally, these things detract from rather than adding to my driving experience.
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by chuckwalla »

Regarding road trips, if your trip deviates from major highways where most of the chargers are located, it'll be problematic.
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by beardsicles »

cmr79 wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 12:13 pm
beardsicles wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 10:44 am After a relatively decent period owning an EV and having recently rented a gas car again, I honestly think the inconveniences of a gas car outweigh the inconveniences of an EV. We've all just gotten socialized/used to the inconveniences of gas cars so we don't think about them anymore.

It's incredible never going to gas stations, standing outside shivering in the cold. It's incredible never wondering if I need to stop to get gas because my car is always charged. It's amazing driving a car that accelerates smoothly, and I love how quiet it is. Driving or riding in gas cars is honestly kind of a miserable experience now just from a noise perspective.

Gas cars are kind of an unpleasant experience once you spend any significant time with an EV. Sure, EVs have their inconveniences, but I prefer that set of foibles.
Having driven both the EV and ICE versions of the same vehicle for extended periods back to back to back, these are by far the biggest differences. Even with a modern 8-speed automatic transmission in a luxury vehicle, accelerating from a stop feels choppy in an ICE in comparison, and I have trouble hearing our soft-spoken 5yo in the back seat over engine noise. The EV drivetrain is smooth, and the vehicle is so much more quiet that I don't have to ask her to repeat herself at all. The EV version also feels more stable around turns due to it's lower center of gravity.

I understand that some people like the engine roar and transmission characteristics of ICE vehicles, but for me personally, these things detract from rather than adding to my driving experience.

Well, and maintenance and repairs. You know what EVs don't need? Maintenance and repairs. No oil changes, no fans and belts, no air filters (except cabin), no exhaust system, no catalytic convertor to get stolen. The brake pads never wear out because you don't use your brakes. It's not only a huge convenience, it massively drives down the cost of ownership. The only thing you ever need to do for an EV, basically, is replace the tires.
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

beardsicles wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 1:14 pm
cmr79 wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 12:13 pm
beardsicles wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 10:44 am After a relatively decent period owning an EV and having recently rented a gas car again, I honestly think the inconveniences of a gas car outweigh the inconveniences of an EV. We've all just gotten socialized/used to the inconveniences of gas cars so we don't think about them anymore.

It's incredible never going to gas stations, standing outside shivering in the cold. It's incredible never wondering if I need to stop to get gas because my car is always charged. It's amazing driving a car that accelerates smoothly, and I love how quiet it is. Driving or riding in gas cars is honestly kind of a miserable experience now just from a noise perspective.

Gas cars are kind of an unpleasant experience once you spend any significant time with an EV. Sure, EVs have their inconveniences, but I prefer that set of foibles.
Having driven both the EV and ICE versions of the same vehicle for extended periods back to back to back, these are by far the biggest differences. Even with a modern 8-speed automatic transmission in a luxury vehicle, accelerating from a stop feels choppy in an ICE in comparison, and I have trouble hearing our soft-spoken 5yo in the back seat over engine noise. The EV drivetrain is smooth, and the vehicle is so much more quiet that I don't have to ask her to repeat herself at all. The EV version also feels more stable around turns due to it's lower center of gravity.

I understand that some people like the engine roar and transmission characteristics of ICE vehicles, but for me personally, these things detract from rather than adding to my driving experience.

Well, and maintenance and repairs. You know what EVs don't need? Maintenance and repairs. No oil changes, no fans and belts, no air filters (except cabin), no exhaust system, no catalytic convertor to get stolen. The brake pads never wear out because you don't use your brakes. It's not only a huge convenience, it massively drives down the cost of ownership. The only thing you ever need to do for an EV, basically, is replace the tires.
… and wiper blades and windshield wiper fluid.

The guy exchanging my winter tires for summer tires looked at my brake pads and estimated I’d get at least 200,000 miles from them because of lack of use.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by neilpilot »

After owning my EV for 2 years, I find one EV inconvenience not already mentioned.

When I drive my DW's ice, which is admittingly an infrequent occurrence, I notice a distinct gasoline odor in her car. Her car has been serviced and there's reportedly nothing wrong. The odor is slight and transient, but it annoys me. She and others don't actually notice it, so I suspect it's a normal odor of gas that I've simply been sensitized to as a result of my EV usage.
GT99
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by GT99 »

wizardofoz1 wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 8:56 pm I would recommend a non-Tesla. I was passenger the other day in a Model 3, jarring ride, too noisey, rough ride, no passenger lumbar support, no ultrasound parking sensors and no proper blind spot sensor.

Got a headache after the ride!
The Model 3 drives like a typical performance vehicle. It's not for everyone, but most high performance vehicles drive similarly because tighter suspension = better handling. When I had a high end German performance car, my mother didn't like riding in it for the same reason.

"No ultrasound parking sensors" - what exactly are you looking for? The Model 3 has parking sensors that ding and tell you how far you are from an object down to an inch in any direction. They can probably be turned off as the car is highly customizable but I've never checked that.

"no proper blind spot sensor" - You can put a live camera view of your blind spot on the screen when you hit your turn signal (both sides). Not sure how much more proper you can get.
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Sandi_k
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Re: Tesla (or EVs in general) - real-world inconveniences?

Post by Sandi_k »

We have a friend with a Model 3. He bought it in 2021, and borrowed $$ to do so.

It was hit while parked on the street, over Labor Day last year.

It is STILL unrepaired, nearly 8 months later, due to supply chain issues with replacement parts. And he is still paying the car payment, and insurance.

No thank you.
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