Social Security Spousal Benefit

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rbslos36
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Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by rbslos36 »

Next year at age 70, I will begin social security. My full retirement age (PIA-Primary Insurance Amount) is $3221.
My wife began social security at age 66. Her benefit was $1395. Her current monthly benefit is $1711. Would her spousal benefit be half of $3221 which would be lower than her current benefit? Or is it half of $3221 plus annual accumulated colas?

I’m trying to figure out what her benefit would be and whether we should even apply.
Thanks
RB
twh
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by twh »

There is a free SS tool which you may like to use. Surf the site to find the link.

Your wife will get 1/2 yours if that is more than hers.
MtnBiker
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by MtnBiker »

Does this help? https://articles.opensocialsecurity.com ... lculation/

The free calculator will give you exact numbers for your situation: https://opensocialsecurity.com/
Topic Author
rbslos36
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by rbslos36 »

Thanks. We followed the results of Open Social Security, thus I am filing at 70 and she filed at 66.I read the Social Security info and was unclear. It seems she would not claim a spousal benefit as it would be lower than what she currently receives. Social security reps gave us conflicting advice thus turning to the tried and true Bogleheads!
MtnBiker
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by MtnBiker »

rbslos36 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:13 pm Thanks. We followed the results of Open Social Security, thus I am filing at 70 and she filed at 66.I read the Social Security info and was unclear. It seems she would not claim a spousal benefit as it would be lower than what she currently receives. Social security reps gave us conflicting advice thus turning to the tried and true Bogleheads!
I'm not sure how COLAs enter the calculation but based on my attempt to input your numbers into the OpenSocialSecurity calculator, it seems that there will be a positive benefit for your wife to claim a spousal benefit if her PIA is less than 1/2 of yours.
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celia
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by celia »

rbslos36 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:58 pm Next year at age 70, I will begin social security. My full retirement age (PIA-Primary Insurance Amount) is $3221.
Since you waited until age 70, your monthly amount will increase by 8% for each year you waited past full retirement age, which is probably 67 or close to it.

Your wife will then be eligible to collect half of yours, assuming it is more than her benefit.
ehh
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by ehh »

celia wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:46 pm
rbslos36 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:58 pm Next year at age 70, I will begin social security. My full retirement age (PIA-Primary Insurance Amount) is $3221.
Since you waited until age 70, your monthly amount will increase by 8% for each year you waited past full retirement age, which is probably 67 or close to it.

Your wife will then be eligible to collect half of yours, assuming it is more than her benefit.
Spousal benefit is up to one half of the workers primary insurance amount. Delayed retirement credits do not increase spousal benefits.
peteyboy
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by peteyboy »

She should apply for spousal benefits, I’m pretty sure they give her whichever is more - her benefit or the spousal benefit. The key is if you die first she gets your benefit as your surviving spouse.
Katietsu
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by Katietsu »

COLAs are applied to benefits whether that benefit has been claimed or not.
spencer99
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by spencer99 »

rbslos36 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:58 pm Next year at age 70, I will begin social security. My full retirement age (PIA-Primary Insurance Amount) is $3221.
My wife began social security at age 66. Her benefit was $1395. Her current monthly benefit is $1711. Would her spousal benefit be half of $3221 which would be lower than her current benefit? Or is it half of $3221 plus annual accumulated colas?

I’m trying to figure out what her benefit would be and whether we should even apply.
Thanks
RB
(I'm pretty sure I've got this right)

Your PIA is not static. It increases by the yearly COLA while you delay.

So, when was the $3,221 PIA effective? At FRA or now?

If at FRA, it is larger now and your wife probably gets a little larger benefit with the spousal addition.

If the PIA is recent (up to date) then your spouse's benefit is larger than half you PIA and she will not see an increase.

S
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Chip Munk
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by Chip Munk »

Given how useful it is to know your PIA, it amazes me that you cannot get this information directly from your Social Security online account once you are past your Full Retirement Age!

OP, to verify your current PIA, log in to your Social Security account and find one of the following pieces of information:
1. The amount of spousal benefit someone can claim on your record. (You have to scroll down a bit after logging in to find it.) Multiply this number by two and that's your current PIA.

2. Your age 70 benefit. Since your full retirement age was 66, you will earn 48 Delayed Retirement Credits by waiting until age 70 to claim. 48 DRCs increases your benefit by 1.32 * your PIA: [1 + (48 * .08/12)]. Divide your age 70 benefit by 1.32 to get your current PIA. ETA: The above is poorly worded. The 48 DRCs brings your benefit up to 1.32 * your PIA, it doesn't increase it by that amount.
Last edited by Chip Munk on Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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sperry8
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by sperry8 »

Chip Munk wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:00 pm Given how useful it is to know your PIA, it amazes me that you cannot get this information directly from your Social Security online account once you are past your Full Retirement Age!

OP, to verify your current PIA, log in to your Social Security account and find one of the following pieces of information:
1. The amount of spousal benefit someone can claim on your record. (You have to scroll down a bit after logging in to find it.) Multiply this number by two and that's your current PIA.

2. Your age 70 benefit. Since your full retirement age was 66, you will earn 48 Delayed Retirement Credits by waiting until age 70 to claim. 48 DRCs increases your benefit by 1.32 * your PIA: [1 + (48 * .08/12)]. Divide your age 70 benefit by 1.32 to get your current PIA.
So if one's age 70 benefit is $2,500, then do $2,500/1.32 which is 1893 PIA. Is that correct?
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Chip Munk
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by Chip Munk »

sperry8 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:15 am
Chip Munk wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:00 pm Given how useful it is to know your PIA, it amazes me that you cannot get this information directly from your Social Security online account once you are past your Full Retirement Age!

OP, to verify your current PIA, log in to your Social Security account and find one of the following pieces of information:
1. The amount of spousal benefit someone can claim on your record. (You have to scroll down a bit after logging in to find it.) Multiply this number by two and that's your current PIA.

2. Your age 70 benefit. Since your full retirement age was 66, you will earn 48 Delayed Retirement Credits by waiting until age 70 to claim. 48 DRCs increases your benefit by 1.32 * your PIA: [1 + (48 * .08/12)]. Divide your age 70 benefit by 1.32 to get your current PIA.
So if one's age 70 benefit is $2,500, then do $2,500/1.32 which is 1893 PIA. Is that correct?
Yes provided your Full Retirement Age is 66, which applies to anyone born in the years 1943 to 1954, and you earned (or plan to earn) your maximum 48 DRCs. Those born after 1954 would use a different denominator since the maximum DRCs they can earn is less than 48.

The SSA does a lot of rounding in their calculations so it's difficult to determine the exact number to the penny. Based on how my own and my DH's PIA changed from year to year (due to COLA) I get the impression they maintain a fairly precise PIA behind the scenes, but any calculations you get to see are rounded down to the nearest 10 cents or the nearest whole dollar depending on the context.
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sperry8
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by sperry8 »

Chip Munk wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:36 am
sperry8 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:15 am
Chip Munk wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:00 pm Given how useful it is to know your PIA, it amazes me that you cannot get this information directly from your Social Security online account once you are past your Full Retirement Age!

OP, to verify your current PIA, log in to your Social Security account and find one of the following pieces of information:
1. The amount of spousal benefit someone can claim on your record. (You have to scroll down a bit after logging in to find it.) Multiply this number by two and that's your current PIA.

2. Your age 70 benefit. Since your full retirement age was 66, you will earn 48 Delayed Retirement Credits by waiting until age 70 to claim. 48 DRCs increases your benefit by 1.32 * your PIA: [1 + (48 * .08/12)]. Divide your age 70 benefit by 1.32 to get your current PIA.
So if one's age 70 benefit is $2,500, then do $2,500/1.32 which is 1893 PIA. Is that correct?
Yes provided your Full Retirement Age is 66, which applies to anyone born in the years 1943 to 1954, and you earned (or plan to earn) your maximum 48 DRCs. Those born after 1954 would use a different denominator since the maximum DRCs they can earn is less than 48.

The SSA does a lot of rounding in their calculations so it's difficult to determine the exact number to the penny. Based on how my own and my DH's PIA changed from year to year (due to COLA) I get the impression they maintain a fairly precise PIA behind the scenes, but any calculations you get to see are rounded down to the nearest 10 cents or the nearest whole dollar depending on the context.
What's the denominator for someone born from 1955-1970?
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ehh
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by ehh »

sperry8 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:44 am What's the denominator for someone born from 1955-1970?
1955 1.307
1956 1.293
1957 1.280
1958 1.267
1959 1.253
1960 or later 1.240

https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement ... ayret.html See the calculator partway down the page.
McDougal
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by McDougal »

Not to hijack the thread, but if you are beyond FRA, what number do you input to OpenSocialSecurity for PIA? What it was on your actual FRA, or what SSA says it is today?
Thanks
Carl53
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by Carl53 »

McDougal wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:19 am Not to hijack the thread, but if you are beyond FRA, what number do you input to OpenSocialSecurity for PIA? What it was on your actual FRA, or what SSA says it is today?
Thanks
Use what it is today so you get the results in today's dollars.
Carl53
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by Carl53 »

OP it appears that both you and your wife are 69. As such she is getting her PIA adjusted for inflation , which is what her current PIA is. She will not receive any spousal benefit since her benefit is more than half of your current PIA.
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by ObliviousInvestor »

McDougal wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:19 am Not to hijack the thread, but if you are beyond FRA, what number do you input to OpenSocialSecurity for PIA? What it was on your actual FRA, or what SSA says it is today?
Thanks
You would use what your PIA is today, but note that that is not the amount shown as the "if you file today" benefit on your statement -- because, now that you're past FRA, that amount includes delayed retirement credits for having waited past FRA.

The easiest way to determine your PIA is to use the calculator at SSA.tools.

You can also call the SSA to have them calculate it, but that will take much longer than just using the above calculator.
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Chip Munk
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by Chip Munk »

McDougal wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:19 am Not to hijack the thread, but if you are beyond FRA, what number do you input to OpenSocialSecurity for PIA? What it was on your actual FRA, or what SSA says it is today?
Thanks
You should use your current PIA. Your PIA changes each year there is a COLA so you should use your current PIA in the OpenSocialSecurity calculator.

The problem is, once you are past FRA (to be more precise, once you are into the next calendar year after you reached FRA) your online Social Security account doesn't provide you your current PIA, you have to calculate it from other numbers it does give you.

As of January after the year in which you reach FRA, the benefit shown in your SSA account is higher than your PIA due to the DRCs earned through December of the prior calendar year.
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by ObliviousInvestor »

Another option by the way is to do the math on your own. If you still have on hand what your PIA was at the time you reached your FRA, you could apply the COLA(s) since then to determine your current PIA. (Though if you have had additional earnings since then that would be in your 35 highest, the math would be more involved as your AIME would be different as well.)
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by McDougal »

Chip Munk wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:21 am
McDougal wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:19 am Not to hijack the thread, but if you are beyond FRA, what number do you input to OpenSocialSecurity for PIA? What it was on your actual FRA, or what SSA says it is today?
Thanks
You should use your current PIA. Your PIA changes each year there is a COLA so you should use your current PIA in the OpenSocialSecurity calculator.

The problem is, once you are past FRA (to be more precise, once you are into the next calendar year after you reached FRA) your online Social Security account doesn't provide you your current PIA, you have to calculate it from other numbers it does give you.

As of January after the year in which you reach FRA, the benefit shown in your SSA account is higher than your PIA due to the DRCs earned through December of the prior calendar year.
Thanks!
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by McDougal »

ObliviousInvestor wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:29 am Another option by the way is to do the math on your own. If you still have on hand what your PIA was at the time you reached your FRA, you could apply the COLA(s) since then to determine your current PIA. (Though if you have had additional earnings since then that would be in your 35 highest, the math would be more involved as your AIME would be different as well.)
Thank you Mike!
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celia
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by celia »

ehh wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:55 pm
celia wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:46 pm
rbslos36 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:58 pm Next year at age 70, I will begin social security. My full retirement age (PIA-Primary Insurance Amount) is $3221.
Since you waited until age 70, your monthly amount will increase by 8% for each year you waited past full retirement age, which is probably 67 or close to it.

Your wife will then be eligible to collect half of yours, assuming it is more than her benefit.
Spousal benefit is up to one half of the workers primary insurance amount. Delayed retirement credits do not increase spousal benefits.
You’re right! I was thinking about survivor’s benefits. But in that case, the spouse can take the whole amount the deceased was getting, as long as it was more than their own benefit.
Harmanic
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by Harmanic »

celia wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:46 pm
rbslos36 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:58 pm Next year at age 70, I will begin social security. My full retirement age (PIA-Primary Insurance Amount) is $3221.
Since you waited until age 70, your monthly amount will increase by 8% for each year you waited past full retirement age, which is probably 67 or close to it.

Your wife will then be eligible to collect half of yours, assuming it is more than her benefit.
The spousal benefit is half of full retirement age (67) not 70. So it will be lower than half of $3221, probably closer to $1,500.
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David Jay
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Re: Social Security Spousal Benefit

Post by David Jay »

Harmanic wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:47 am
celia wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:46 pm
rbslos36 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:58 pm Next year at age 70, I will begin social security. My full retirement age (PIA-Primary Insurance Amount) is $3221.
Since you waited until age 70, your monthly amount will increase by 8% for each year you waited past full retirement age, which is probably 67 or close to it.

Your wife will then be eligible to collect half of yours, assuming it is more than her benefit.
The spousal benefit is half of full retirement age (67) not 70. So it will be lower than half of $3221, probably closer to $1,500.
The definition of PIA (Primary Insurance Amount) is one’s benefit at Full Retirement Age which is 66 years for someone who was born in 1954.

So it will be half of $3221 (if $3221 is actually his 2023 PIA, PIA changes each year with COLA), plus 1 year of additional COLA.
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