Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

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Topic Author
kchico
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:58 pm

Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by kchico »

Things are getting difficult at work and I am feeling like pulling the plug and retire but I do not feel ready because everything changed in last 2 weeks. My company eliminated 10 people in a team 12 and I now have a crazy work load and I am being forced to go back to the office which I am not a fun off after really enjoying working from home for a few years after Covid. I am 38 and my wife 39 and we have two kids 7 and 4.

Our portfolio is essentially my 401K and everything else on a single stock.

Assets:
House: $330K
Cars: $80k

Emergency funds: $12k

Debt: $124k @ 3.5%

Tax Filing Status: Married

Tax Rate: 12% Federal, 7% State

State of Residence: South Carolina

Age: 38 and 39

Total Portfolio: $1.75M

Taxable
$270k

His 401K:
$284k
81% Fidelity 500 Index (FXAIX)
10% Fidelity International Index (FSPSX)
9% Vanguard International Growth Admiral (VWILX)
Company match? 4%

His Roth IRA at E-trade
$190k

Traditional IRA at E-trade
$400k

Her Roth IRA at E-trade
$70k

Her Roll-Over IRA at E-trade
$300k

Her Traditional IRA at E-trade
$230k


Contributions

New annual Contributions
$8000 his 401k (also specify any employer matching contributions)

We have been tracking our expense and using a case study excel sheet from MMM all our expenses come out to $53,356 using Obamacare for the healthcare. I currently make $2700 bi-weekly and wife has side jobs here and there in which she makes $1200 a month from time to time. I think being able to pull out $65,000-60,000 would be great and as needed we can lower our needs.

I can sell the stock at any time and it would not be subject to any taxes.

Questions:

1. What should I do with my 401k and $1.4M in cash after selling the stock if I decide to pull the trigger? What funds?
2. Does it look like we have enough?
3. Should I start roll overs ASAP? or try to wait until next year when I should have lower income. I don't have enough for 5 years of expenses in my after tax.
4. I will probably speak to my employer to get a layoff to be able to use the severance to repay the debt around $30k I assume. I can also sell one of the cars that should wipe out $60k of the debt. I made a bad decision and bought an expensive car when the market was at AH and my portfolio was worth a lot more.

Thanks
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rob
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by rob »

I don't see any way this works to be honest....
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien
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Wiggums
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by Wiggums »

I completely sympathize with your situation. Instead of full retirement, would the next option be to find a different job? First of all, you’ll take a lot of zeros and Social Security.
Last edited by Wiggums on Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Normchad
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by Normchad »

rob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:16 pm I don't see any way this works to be honest....
Yeah, it’s not time to retire yet. It’s certainly time to start looking for a new job though…..
Topic Author
kchico
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:58 pm

Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by kchico »

rob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:16 pm I don't see any way this works to be honest....
So Bogleheads don't use the 4% SWR?
KlangFool
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by KlangFool »

kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:10 pm

Age: 38 and 39

Total Portfolio: $1.75M

Taxable
$270k

His 401K:
$284k
81% Fidelity 500 Index (FXAIX)
10% Fidelity International Index (FSPSX)
9% Vanguard International Growth Admiral (VWILX)
Company match? 4%

His Roth IRA at E-trade
$190k

Traditional IRA at E-trade
$400k

Her Roth IRA at E-trade
$70k

Her Roll-Over IRA at E-trade
$300k

Her Traditional IRA at E-trade
$230k

kchico,

I do not see a portfolio of 1.7m. Please redo your calculation.

KlangFool
30% VWENX | 16% VFWAX/VTIAX | 14.5% VTSAX | 19.5% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 30% Wellington 50% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
Silverado
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by Silverado »

kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:27 pm
rob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:16 pm I don't see any way this works to be honest....
So Bogleheads don't use the 4% SWR?
Not for folks in their late 30s. That’s a very long retirement.
KlangFool
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by KlangFool »

OP,

You should sell your single stock regardless of whatever your decision with your employment.

KlangFool
30% VWENX | 16% VFWAX/VTIAX | 14.5% VTSAX | 19.5% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 30% Wellington 50% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
sailaway
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by sailaway »

You are certainly in a good position to leave this job and take some time to figure out your next steps. With kids that young, I would be thinking about going back to work eventually to build up a college fund. If you don't know what you are retiring to, you might also find that you want to spend more on entertainment or hobbies.

I would be freaked with mist in a single stock, no matter the employment situation.

But you certainly don't need to ruin your health sticking this job out or even worrying about finding a new one right away.
student
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by student »

KlangFool wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:31 pm
kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:10 pm

Age: 38 and 39

Total Portfolio: $1.75M

Taxable
$270k

His 401K:
$284k
81% Fidelity 500 Index (FXAIX)
10% Fidelity International Index (FSPSX)
9% Vanguard International Growth Admiral (VWILX)
Company match? 4%

His Roth IRA at E-trade
$190k

Traditional IRA at E-trade
$400k

Her Roth IRA at E-trade
$70k

Her Roll-Over IRA at E-trade
$300k

Her Traditional IRA at E-trade
$230k

kchico,

I do not see a portfolio of 1.7m. Please redo your calculation.

KlangFool
What do you mean? 270+284+190+400+70+300+230=1744
KlangFool
Posts: 31526
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by KlangFool »

kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:10 pm
Things are getting difficult at work and I am feeling like pulling the plug and retire but I do not feel ready because everything changed in last 2 weeks. My company eliminated 10 people in a team 12 and I now have a crazy work load and I am being forced to go back to the office which I am not a fun off after really enjoying working from home for a few years after Covid. I am 38 and my wife 39 and we have two kids 7 and 4.
kchico,

Just say no!

You do not really need this job. You can take a few years off and find something else. If you are willing to quit and lose this job anyhow, why can't you just say no to start?

Just work your normal 40 hours. If they do not like it, they can let you go.

KlangFool
30% VWENX | 16% VFWAX/VTIAX | 14.5% VTSAX | 19.5% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 30% Wellington 50% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
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windaar
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by windaar »

Time to leave this job and find a new one. Lots of them out there. You're too young to retire, especially with 2 kids to raise.
Nobody knows nothing.
Topic Author
kchico
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:58 pm

Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by kchico »

KlangFool wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:31 pm
kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:10 pm

Age: 38 and 39

Total Portfolio: $1.75M

Taxable
$270k

His 401K:
$284k
81% Fidelity 500 Index (FXAIX)
10% Fidelity International Index (FSPSX)
9% Vanguard International Growth Admiral (VWILX)
Company match? 4%

His Roth IRA at E-trade
$190k

Traditional IRA at E-trade
$400k

Her Roth IRA at E-trade
$70k

Her Roll-Over IRA at E-trade
$300k

Her Traditional IRA at E-trade
$230k

kchico,

I do not see a portfolio of 1.7m. Please redo your calculation.

KlangFool
I am getting $1,744,000 :confused
Silverado wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:33 pm
kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:27 pm
rob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:16 pm I don't see any way this works to be honest....
So Bogleheads don't use the 4% SWR?
Not for folks in their late 30s. That’s a very long retirement.
What SWR is appropriate?
jebmke
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by jebmke »

kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:27 pm
rob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:16 pm I don't see any way this works to be honest....
So Bogleheads don't use the 4% SWR?
maybe for a 25 year horizon - say at age 60+

Even that is a close one for many.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
Ed 2
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by Ed 2 »

Retire? Why? Are you sure that you not going to do something for potential 50-60 more years ? It has nothing to do with money. At your age I wouldn’t even think about to retire. If you were in your 50s this would be the different situation. Just look for another job .
Last edited by Ed 2 on Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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student
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by student »

I don't think you have enough to retire yet unless you want to lean FIRE. While I understand that WFH is great, employers are trying to change that. But the increase of workload is not ideal. Perhaps hang on and trying to get another job? Cars worth $80k.I assume two cars. Given that this is value for used cars, it seems to be a lot. What is your household income?
YeahBuddy
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Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:55 pm

Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by YeahBuddy »

Agree that you need to redo your calculations but also would encourage you to re evaluate how "bad" your work conditions really are. Being "forced" back to work is really not that terrible. Most of us have been working through the pandemic, especially us healthcare workers. What else has become unbearable?

You're young with 2 young kids and already thinking about retiring?

If things became really unbearable at my full time job I would look elsewhere for employment during my 30s and 40s, unless I had $10M+.

Good luck!
Light weight baby!
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pokebowl
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by pokebowl »

Silverado wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:33 pm Not for folks in their late 30s. That’s a very long retirement.
The good news is for those looking to retire in their late 30s- early 40s and aspiring for 50-60 year retirements, 3-3.3% does work. :beer
EdNorton
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by EdNorton »

student wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:37 pm
KlangFool wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:31 pm
kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:10 pm

Age: 38 and 39

Total Portfolio: $1.75M

Taxable
$270k

His 401K:
$284k
81% Fidelity 500 Index (FXAIX)
10% Fidelity International Index (FSPSX)
9% Vanguard International Growth Admiral (VWILX)
Company match? 4%

His Roth IRA at E-trade
$190k

Traditional IRA at E-trade
$400k

Her Roth IRA at E-trade
$70k

Her Roll-Over IRA at E-trade
$300k

Her Traditional IRA at E-trade
$230k

kchico,

I do not see a portfolio of 1.7m. Please redo your calculation.

KlangFool
What do you mean? 270+284+190+400+70+300+230=1744
:sharebeer
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student
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by student »

kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:39 pm What SWR is appropriate?
For me personally, the maximum SWR is 4% at 65, maybe 3% at 55. At your age, probably 2%.
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quantAndHold
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by quantAndHold »

kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:27 pm
rob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:16 pm I don't see any way this works to be honest....
So Bogleheads don't use the 4% SWR?
Not at age 38, with young kids at home. 4% is a SWR for a 30 year retirement.

Retiring at 38 because you have a bad job is a pretty extreme move. Most people just go out and find a new job.
Jags4186
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by Jags4186 »

Just look for a new job?
UpperNwGuy
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by UpperNwGuy »

I was in a similar situation in my mid 30s. My solution was to find another job and work another 25 years. I recommend that solution to you.

I found myself in almost the same solution in my late 40s. My solution was to find another job and work until 61.
8301
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by 8301 »

kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:10 pm My company eliminated 10 people in a team 12 and I now have a crazy work load and I am being forced to go back to the office which I am not a fun off after really enjoying working from home for a few years after Covid.
Your company is smarting up. Party is over.
Topic Author
kchico
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:58 pm

Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by kchico »

KlangFool wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:38 pm
kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:10 pm
Things are getting difficult at work and I am feeling like pulling the plug and retire but I do not feel ready because everything changed in last 2 weeks. My company eliminated 10 people in a team 12 and I now have a crazy work load and I am being forced to go back to the office which I am not a fun off after really enjoying working from home for a few years after Covid. I am 38 and my wife 39 and we have two kids 7 and 4.
kchico,

Just say no!

You do not really need this job. You can take a few years off and find something else. If you are willing to quit and lose this job anyhow, why can't you just say no to start?

Just work your normal 40 hours. If they do not like it, they can let you go.

KlangFool
I already told them no but I would like to get my severance instead of getting fired. I have been working at this place for 10 years and I would like to walk away with what I think I deserve. South Carolina is right to work state so yeah they can fired at any moment.
pokebowl wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:43 pm
Silverado wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:33 pm Not for folks in their late 30s. That’s a very long retirement.
The good news is for those looking to retire in their late 30s- early 40s and aspiring for 50-60 year retirements, 3-3.3% does work. :beer
At 3.3% It exceed all my expenses which includes everything, vacations, etc etc estimated at $53,356. 3.3% would get me $57,750 which is $2,250 short of my lower goal... way too close not to roll the dice :happy .
student wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:45 pm
kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:39 pm What SWR is appropriate?
For me personally, the maximum SWR is 4% at 65, maybe 3% at 55. At your age, probably 2%.
LOL are you making rules as you type on my thread :) ?
Last edited by kchico on Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Topic Author
kchico
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by kchico »

8301 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:59 pm
kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:10 pm My company eliminated 10 people in a team 12 and I now have a crazy work load and I am being forced to go back to the office which I am not a fun off after really enjoying working from home for a few years after Covid.
Your company is smarting up. Party is over.
The other guy that they kept on my team doesn't live in the state so he gets to work from home.



Any suggestions on question #1
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:27 pm
rob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:16 pm I don't see any way this works to be honest....
So Bogleheads don't use the 4% SWR?
do you see anywhere on this chart (trinity study) (which only covers 30 years at most) where you had 100% success with a 4% withdrawal over 30 years? I don't:

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/File:TrinityTable3.jpg

3% worked for 30 years with 25% or more in stocks.

unless you're planning on not living past 68, you could only afford to take dividends, but not yet start tapping principal.
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Jags4186
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by Jags4186 »

kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:08 pm
8301 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:59 pm
kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:10 pm My company eliminated 10 people in a team 12 and I now have a crazy work load and I am being forced to go back to the office which I am not a fun off after really enjoying working from home for a few years after Covid.
Your company is smarting up. Party is over.
The other guy that they kept on my team doesn't live in the state so he gets to work from home.



Any suggestions on question #1
Around here you’ll get suggestions of 3 fund portfolio - US Total Stock Market, Total international, and total bond. Some might prefer not to invest internationally. Best to look at your portfolio as a whole and not in buckets.
poker27
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by poker27 »

We are the same age, you have slightly more $, and I also hate my job ;). However I spend more $, and do t have kids.

I’ll look at it slightly differently. You have 1.75M, and need $54k annually for the next 32 years. Assuming your wife will make $5k ish a year, you are down to 49k in expenses, which is like 3%.

I think the big question is are you going to be happy spending 50k as a family of 4? I don’t think I would, and would be sweating every expense.

Personally, I would set a timeline, genuinely look for a new job, and if you don’t find one in 6mo, 9mo, whatever, quit. Perhaps having an end date would make it more palatable. If you don’t get a new job, take some time off. If you really love it, perhaps work part time to augment your withdrawal rate and get you out of the house.
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quantAndHold
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by quantAndHold »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:55 pm I was in a similar situation in my mid 30s. My solution was to find another job and work another 25 years. I recommend that solution to you.

I found myself in almost the same solution in my late 40s. My solution was to find another job and work until 61.
I had eight jobs in a 30 year career. The longest I was at any one place was 7 1/2 years. There’s always another job out there. The idea that “welp, this job didn’t work out after ten years, so I’m never gonna work again” is baffling.
Wannaretireearly
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by Wannaretireearly »

Go for it. No chance you won’t pick up some work later.
Seems toxic, make the exit plan with/without job lined up. Having this amount saved up with low expenses, at least gives you this freedom to quit/exit. Life is short, without doing 10 peoples work!
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aristotelian
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by aristotelian »

I think you are fine. Only concern is your are going to want to do a good amount of Roth conversions because you have a lot of your portfolio in traditional IRA's. That is going to add some taxes to your budget.

If your budget includes debt servicing, paying off some of the debt will help.

What about college funds for the kids?

I would assume when things settle down you will be able to earn some income, somehow, to give yourself a bit more flexibility.
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calmaniac
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by calmaniac »

kchico,

There are an infinite number of possibilities between continuing with Bad Work Situation and FIRE. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Having the considerable savings you have amassed gives you agency to make choices that are best for you and your family. As others have noted, leave this job and take a break.

In a 12 year old posting, JL Collins refers to FU money. A bit coarse, but the principle holds. When you have substantial funds you can make your own choices, whether or not your boss likes it.

I am not a JL collins fanboy, but along these lines his VTSAX redo video of John Goodman in The Gambler is good for a laugh. Also a bit coarse, not for sensitive BHs.
"Pretired", working 20 h/wk. AA 75/25: 30% TSM, 19% value (VFVA/AVUV), 18% Int'l LC, 8% emerging, 25% GFund/VBTLX. Military pension ≈60% of expenses. Pension+SS@age 70 ≈100% of expenses.
sleepy06
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by sleepy06 »

Cut job to 40 hours a week.
Meet with boss to outline priority projects if that is unclear.
Block aside some free time or take a day off to daydream about your future and what your next goal is.
Once you know what that is, you can start planning for act 2.
Nothing wrong with retirement but I seriously doubt one could stay retired that long (and yes I’m around your age).
Mr. Money Moustache for example says he is retired but does a lot of projects/blog/etc.
Also beware stress from young children may be magnifying issues at work.
Or, plan some nice vacations while you bide your time and think about act 2
helloeveryone
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by helloeveryone »

kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:39 pm
KlangFool wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:31 pm
kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:10 pm

Age: 38 and 39

Total Portfolio: $1.75M

Taxable
$270k

His 401K:
$284k
81% Fidelity 500 Index (FXAIX)
10% Fidelity International Index (FSPSX)
9% Vanguard International Growth Admiral (VWILX)
Company match? 4%

His Roth IRA at E-trade
$190k

Traditional IRA at E-trade
$400k

Her Roth IRA at E-trade
$70k

Her Roll-Over IRA at E-trade
$300k

Her Traditional IRA at E-trade
$230k

kchico,

I do not see a portfolio of 1.7m. Please redo your calculation.

KlangFool
I am getting $1,744,000 :confused
Silverado wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:33 pm
kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:27 pm
rob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:16 pm I don't see any way this works to be honest....
So Bogleheads don't use the 4% SWR?
Not for folks in their late 30s. That’s a very long retirement.
What SWR is appropriate?
The Trinity Study which is where the 4% SWR was derived from only studied retirements up to 30 years. You’re 38. You’re looking at a retirement of more than 30 years. So that study can’t be used for you unless you know your “end date” is at age 68
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Wiggums
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by Wiggums »

kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:08 pm The other guy that they kept on my team doesn't live in the state so he gets to work from home.
DW worked for a company and the rest of the team was 1,000+ miles away. DW is the sole team member that is 7 states away. It makes no sense for her to go into the office, but the newly crowned Manager is taking orders from above. LOL
"I started with nothing and I still have most of it left."
Topic Author
kchico
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by kchico »

poker27 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:22 pm We are the same age, you have slightly more $, and I also hate my job ;). However I spend more $, and do t have kids.

I’ll look at it slightly differently. You have 1.75M, and need $54k annually for the next 32 years. Assuming your wife will make $5k ish a year, you are down to 49k in expenses, which is like 3%.

I think the big question is are you going to be happy spending 50k as a family of 4? I don’t think I would, and would be sweating every expense.

Personally, I would set a timeline, genuinely look for a new job, and if you don’t find one in 6mo, 9mo, whatever, quit. Perhaps having an end date would make it more palatable. If you don’t get a new job, take some time off. If you really love it, perhaps work part time to augment your withdrawal rate and get you out of the house.
Right now I make $115,500 and my take home bi-weekly is $2700. Withdrawing $60,000 would be the magic number which would be $2500 bi-weekly but I would have to pay $100 for health insurance. Taxes should be essentially zero for me and in the end would be very similar. The take home from my current job with essentially everything paid off in South Carolina is not but and is more the most families have.
Wannaretireearly wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:29 pm Go for it. No chance you won’t pick up some work later.
Seems toxic, make the exit plan with/without job lined up. Having this amount saved up with low expenses, at least gives you this freedom to quit/exit. Life is short, without doing 10 peoples work!
It is absolutely toxic and that's my biggest problem. I could have retired at the end 2020 but I enjoyed my work and loved working from home so we decided to just keep working but the situation has changed from loving my job to absolutely hating it.
student
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by student »

kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:07 pm
student wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:45 pm
kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:39 pm What SWR is appropriate?
For me personally, the maximum SWR is 4% at 65, maybe 3% at 55. At your age, probably 2%.
LOL are you making rules as you type on my thread :) ?
The SWR is 4% at 65. You are under 40. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/co ... /86877234/
toomanysidehustles
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by toomanysidehustles »

quantAndHold wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:26 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:55 pm I was in a similar situation in my mid 30s. My solution was to find another job and work another 25 years. I recommend that solution to you.

I found myself in almost the same solution in my late 40s. My solution was to find another job and work until 61.
I had eight jobs in a 30 year career. The longest I was at any one place was 7 1/2 years. There’s always another job out there. The idea that “welp, this job didn’t work out after ten years, so I’m never gonna work again” is baffling.
Yup, I had three jobs in 17 years and hated my last one so much I created my own businesses (first one at 39) and love it so much I can't see myself retiring unless I physically can't make it out of my house any longer.
labguy
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by labguy »

Seems the return to work has got you flustered. Pre pandemic I assume you weren’t wfh, so can’t the company leverage a more collaborative environment and ask folks to return to the office? I sense this issue has got you pretty tripped up. If you don’t like it leave and find a wfh job, but at your age with a young family I’d vote for more years earning money. No question.
AlwaysLearningMore
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by AlwaysLearningMore »

8301 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:59 pm
kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:10 pm My company eliminated 10 people in a team 12 and I now have a crazy work load and I am being forced to go back to the office which I am not a fun off after really enjoying working from home for a few years after Covid.
Your company is smarting up. Party is over.

Indeed.

OP needs to decide if future work situation must absolutely preclude job site/in-office work. That approach would seem to limit some opportunities.

In terms of OP's current situation with kids (and the unexpected expenses Life brings) the margin of financial safety seems slim.
Retirement is best when you have a lot to live on, and a lot to live for. * None of what I post is investment advice.* | FIRE'd July 2023
Normchad
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by Normchad »

labguy wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:58 pm Seems the return to work has got you flustered. Pre pandemic I assume you weren’t wfh, so can’t the company leverage a more collaborative environment and ask folks to return to the office? I sense this issue has got you pretty tripped up. If you don’t like it leave and find a wfh job, but at your age with a young family I’d vote for more years earning money. No question.
A lot of employers realize that requiring a return to office will cause some people to quit. And they’re totally okay with it. And some are doing it intentionally, seeing it as a quick easy way to reduce headcount.
8301
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by 8301 »

Normchad wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:09 pm
labguy wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:58 pm Seems the return to work has got you flustered. Pre pandemic I assume you weren’t wfh, so can’t the company leverage a more collaborative environment and ask folks to return to the office? I sense this issue has got you pretty tripped up. If you don’t like it leave and find a wfh job, but at your age with a young family I’d vote for more years earning money. No question.
A lot of employers realize that requiring a return to office will cause some people to quit. And they’re totally okay with it. And some are doing it intentionally, seeing it as a quick easy way to reduce headcount.
I don't understand. If you wish to get paid, you have to do what your employer asks you to do within reason. Utility workers, road crews, airline workers,... Even the ceo of of a market cap $xxx B company shows up to work everyday. And janitors. I am not any more valuable than any of them.

You can't have your cake and eat.
exodusNH
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by exodusNH »

kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:27 pm
rob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:16 pm I don't see any way this works to be honest....
So Bogleheads don't use the 4% SWR?
As others have notes, that assumes you worked to normal retirement age. It is not designed for 50+ years AND needing to raise 2 children, who haven't even hit their peak expenses yet. Not only that, but 4% might be closer to 2.5-3%. (https://youtu.be/1FwgCRIS0Wg)

Also, Social Security is based on your highest 30 years of working. The estimate you get from their site assumes you're going to be making your current salary until you retire.

Unemployment is still crazily low. Find another job.
brew
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by brew »

All good advice but the number is actually 35 years.

https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement ... pwork.html

OP needs more work history to eliminate some future zero years.
2pedals
Posts: 1988
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by 2pedals »

10 people in a team 12 sounds really bad, but why did they cut 10 people out of 12? Why not you also? Maybe you are considered too important to let go and can expect significant pay increases in the future. Maybe this is the start of a complete shutdown where very little work is expected in the future. How many people work for the company? Can you put the situation in a more detailed context? Obviously you want to quit your job, so what? Not an unusual situation except you now want the retire at 38. Did you want to retire last year or even the year before? Many bogleheads take years of planning to get to the point where they feel comfortable pulling the trigger.
OldSport
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by OldSport »

pokebowl wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:43 pm
Silverado wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:33 pm Not for folks in their late 30s. That’s a very long retirement.
The good news is for those looking to retire in their late 30s- early 40s and aspiring for 50-60 year retirements, 3-3.3% does work. :beer
3.2% exactly, with 75/25 or 70/30 AA seems to be good for a perpetual portfolio. But it needs to include healthcare.
OldSport
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by OldSport »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:14 pm
kchico wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:27 pm
rob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:16 pm I don't see any way this works to be honest....
So Bogleheads don't use the 4% SWR?
do you see anywhere on this chart (trinity study) (which only covers 30 years at most) where you had 100% success with a 4% withdrawal over 30 years? I don't:

httHealthcare.
gleheads.org/wiki/File:TrinityTable3.jpg

3% worked for 30 years with 25% or more in stocks.

unless you're planning on not living past 68, you could only afford to take dividends, but not yet start tapping principal.
3.2% works OK but really need at least a 40/60 portfolio if concerned with sequence of return risk in the first few years and ideally at least 60/40 after getting through the first few years.
2pedals
Posts: 1988
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:31 am

Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by 2pedals »

P.S. date stamp on the posts seems off by several hours, I didn't think it was 4:00 am
OldSport
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Re: Bad Work Situation Pushing me into retirement.

Post by OldSport »

OP has >$1.7M with a $70-80k salary. WOW. That is impressive.

The SWR of 3.2% does work out to $54k/year, and so OP can lean FIRE or BARISTA fire with $20k income supplemental income elsewhere, but if I were OP, I'd DEFINITELY look for another job. OP has the freedom to do so.

I make a lot more than OP but have a lot less saved. I love my job function & compensation but have to work with a handful of type A aggressive & selfish bullying individuals that I cannot stand the way they treat me, so am trying to live well below my means and save & invest 50% of income to be FI just to have options if it deteriorates. So OP did excellent in saving & investing.
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