Last Week Tonight on timeshares

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runningshoes
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by runningshoes »

jhawktx wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:00 pm
climber2020 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:36 am
JoMoney wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:28 am I'm always surprised when I hear about people buying a timeshare. It baffles me.
Never underestimate the ingenuity of fools.
Timeshares and long term care insurance should be avoided. But once someone gets suckered into either they will valiantly try to put lipstick on the pig.
Clearly some folks here have done well with their TS purchase - maybe it's not as black and white as you think?
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fetch5482
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by fetch5482 »

runningshoes wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:58 pm
jhawktx wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:00 pm
climber2020 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:36 am
JoMoney wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:28 am I'm always surprised when I hear about people buying a timeshare. It baffles me.
Never underestimate the ingenuity of fools.
Timeshares and long term care insurance should be avoided. But once someone gets suckered into either they will valiantly try to put lipstick on the pig.
Clearly some folks here have done well with their TS purchase - maybe it's not as black and white as you think?
Nothing is black and white, but for a vast majority of people, TS will not be a good investment, especially if you buy direct from them. The math can work out in your favor if you buy on the secondary market, but there are no guarantees on how much they increase the annual maintenance fees, so there is no way to be 100% certain.
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Freefun
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by Freefun »

Mr.BB wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:58 pm We were invited to a timeshare presentation in a Marriott Kauai resort a few years ago. First rule is never let them drive you off property to the presentation site, especially in places like Mexico. They had a nice building set up on the property. Personally I had always wanted to hear what these presentations were like, and we know better than to buy one of these, but they offered got a bunch of hotel points for about a 90 min presentation and it was on property so we accepted.

The fun part was that they couldn't overcome our objections/challenges. Everyone was nice enough and I think they got the idea it wasn't going anywhere. In fact, afterwards my DW and I came with a number of better ways for them to present their offer; of course we weren't going to tell them how.
I got an offer for this Marriott and I’m thinking of going. Presentations don’t bother me and I have no desire,for timeshares.
Remember when you wanted what you currently have?
smitcat
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by smitcat »

uaeebs86 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:32 pm
smitcat wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:43 pm
SuzBanyan wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:39 am
smitcat wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:27 am
teCh0010 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:43 pm Disney Vacation Club with the ability to rent your points out (and real demand there keeping point rentals at or ahead of maintenance) and a robust secondary market seems to be one of the only points based time shares that has actual value.
Yup - not a fan of timeshares but the Disney stuff has done very well over the years.
We bought at Disney starting in 2005 and have been happy as owners. Easy to use if you can plan ahead (7 to 11 months out is best) and easy to rent to others if you need to. Resale value has increased over time which meant that we would have capital gains if we sold. We are celebrating my Dad’s 94th birthday at a 3 bedroom at Grand Californian. After renting out some of my points, my unreimbursed dues for the 4 night stay are under $300.

In contrast, my Dad has a timeshare with Diamond Resort (which I think was recently bought by Hilton). He still likes the resort on Kauai but pays more in annual fees than it costs to book the resort through Expedia. The value of the TS is $0. We are debating between paying $1000 or more (plus the current annual dues) for the resort to buy it back or just default on the annual fees. I have advised every family member that under no circumstances should action be taken after my Dad’s death that would confirm a transfer to his heirs.
Agreed that the Disney timeshares have been mostly a winner however you figure them out over time - we sold ours a while back and were similarly ahead.
The timeshares we inherited were not financially fit as a whole, but we kept for a few years, and it worked OK on a 'free' basis to us before letting them lapse.


Did you just quit paying the maintenance fees? Or did they take it back? Did you get charged any fees?
We 'returned' them to the timeshare for zero dollars and we paid no fees after that time.
Harmanic
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by Harmanic »

themesrob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:27 am This crosses Personal Finance and Personal Consumer Issues, but I recommend the recent segment from Last Week Tonight on timeshares and timeshare "exit" scams (warning: some salty language): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM

I've seen a number of threads on these issues before, but this is an eye-opening watch. It's worth the 25 minutes, including for the absolute evisceration of Dave Ramsey and his endorsement of a timeshare exit company which later turned out to be a total scam (and then his bizarre doubling down). I had actually seen that endorsement mentioned in a few bogleheads threads.
I absolutely loved it. Dave Ramsey is the worst kind of person, like other fake gurus. My list of pariah financial "experts" includes Suze Orman, Graham Stephan, Napoleon Hill, and Robert Kiyosaki.
The question isn't at what age I want to retire, it's at what income. | - George Foreman
Harmanic
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by Harmanic »

deltaneutral83 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:52 am
I'll have to watch this part, highly unlikely Ramsey would endorse full fledge scam artists. In fact I've known a person who use TSET to get out of one and it went fine. Perhaps there is additional info.
Except that Dave Ramsey IS a scam artist. Don't get credit cards, get my Gazelle high fee debit card. Don't get a credit score, get underwriting from my trusted mortgage lender. Don't invest in index funds, buy good growth mutual funds with 5% front end loads and high fees from one of my trusted advisor networks. His baby steps are just common sense and the rest is just scamming the gullible.
The question isn't at what age I want to retire, it's at what income. | - George Foreman
SuzBanyan
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by SuzBanyan »

Chip Munk wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:44 pm
SuzBanyan wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:39 am
smitcat wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:27 am
teCh0010 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:43 pm Disney Vacation Club with the ability to rent your points out (and real demand there keeping point rentals at or ahead of maintenance) and a robust secondary market seems to be one of the only points based time shares that has actual value.
Yup - not a fan of timeshares but the Disney stuff has done very well over the years.
We bought at Disney starting in 2005 and have been happy as owners. Easy to use if you can plan ahead (7 to 11 months out is best) and easy to rent to others if you need to. Resale value has increased over time which meant that we would have capital gains if we sold. We are celebrating my Dad’s 94th birthday at a 3 bedroom at Grand Californian. After renting out some of my points, my unreimbursed dues for the 4 night stay are under $300.
In case you aren't already aware, amounts you've paid over the years for Capital Reserves increase your basis, reducing your gain on the sale. You can find the Capital Reserves per point going back to 2008 or so depending on the resort on various websites if you didn't save old dues statements or budget booklets over the years. Dues statements back to 2014 can be downloaded from your online account.

I've started tracking the Capital Reserves I've paid in a spreadsheet just in case I decide to sell at some point and my contracts continue to be worth more than I paid. With enough historical Capital Reserves data, I expect I can eliminate any gain on the sale.
Thank you. I had been tracking my capital reserves but no longer need to for the worst possible reason. My husband passed away last year and my step up in basis was at a time when contract sales were at particularly high prices. At the time of his passing, the value of our points was about 2.5 times our initial purchase price. With all the price increases, I honestly don’t think even Disney timeshares will remain a great deal, although I think most who go to Disney regularly will be able to get value out of ownership.
Wannaretireearly
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by Wannaretireearly »

fetch5482 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:01 pm This was timely since we just agreed to attend a timeshare presentation in Mexico next month in exchange for an ultra cheap 5-nights all inclusive vacation.

Wife and I are on the same page - we do not want to purchase one. We have decent income, so we are probably good "targets" for these salespeople. We just plan to toe the line that "we do not make financial decisions without consulting our financial advisor and lawyer, so no thank you". I am sure they will have retorts ready, like telling that I can back out within X days if the consultant/lawyer says no etc; but we plan to just say "no thank you, if we want one we will buy later from secondary market".

We have both agreed that if any question is directed to the Mrs, she will just look at me and allow me to respond; so they cannot pit us against each other. The last time we attended a sales presentation was in Hawaii about a decade or so ago; so our skills are now a bit rusty but we still are resolved to just keep saying no.

Any other tips to avoid wasting time and escaping faster is appreciated.
My line is I’m leaving the country soon, so buying anything doesn’t make sense.
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ | “How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“
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fetch5482
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by fetch5482 »

Wannaretireearly wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:20 pm My line is I’m leaving the country soon, so buying anything doesn’t make sense.
They'll reply along the lines of "you can exchange the points with any of our 1500 resorts world wide. Where are you relocating to?"

I frankly think answering anything will get counter answers nearly instantly. It's best to just say "no, I won't sign anything until I get to review it with my lawyer and financial planner. If you can't give me the time to do so and get back in a few days, I'm afraid there is no point in wasting your time as I'll not purchase today."
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Chip Munk
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by Chip Munk »

SuzBanyan wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:38 pm
Chip Munk wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:44 pm
SuzBanyan wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:39 am We bought at Disney starting in 2005 and have been happy as owners. Easy to use if you can plan ahead (7 to 11 months out is best) and easy to rent to others if you need to. Resale value has increased over time which meant that we would have capital gains if we sold. We are celebrating my Dad’s 94th birthday at a 3 bedroom at Grand Californian. After renting out some of my points, my unreimbursed dues for the 4 night stay are under $300.
In case you aren't already aware, amounts you've paid over the years for Capital Reserves increase your basis, reducing your gain on the sale. You can find the Capital Reserves per point going back to 2008 or so depending on the resort on various websites if you didn't save old dues statements or budget booklets over the years. Dues statements back to 2014 can be downloaded from your online account.

I've started tracking the Capital Reserves I've paid in a spreadsheet just in case I decide to sell at some point and my contracts continue to be worth more than I paid. With enough historical Capital Reserves data, I expect I can eliminate any gain on the sale.
Thank you. I had been tracking my capital reserves but no longer need to for the worst possible reason. My husband passed away last year and my step up in basis was at a time when contract sales were at particularly high prices. At the time of his passing, the value of our points was about 2.5 times our initial purchase price. With all the price increases, I honestly don’t think even Disney timeshares will remain a great deal, although I think most who go to Disney regularly will be able to get value out of ownership.
I'm very sorry for your loss.
gtrplayer
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by gtrplayer »

Glockenspiel wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:36 am
eddot98 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:30 am We are timeshare owners and we have actually been very pleased with our ownership, until the pandemic hit. We bought our 3 weeks all on the secondary market starting over 20 years ago, with one costing only $1. Our maintenance fees were reasonable and we never went to our home resorts, exchanging into some nice resorts using RCI, mostly in the northeast US. The pandemic changed everything. We had been exchanging every year into Lake Placid, NY in February for a winter vacation and Smugglers Notch, VT in October for fall foliage. Since the pandemic started we haven’t been able to find any exchanges to anywhere that we want to go, even though we have a ridiculous amount of trading power.
Our resort where we had two weeks needed to raise their maintenance fees significantly due to the age of the units, so they offered to allow owners the opportunity to turn back their weeks for a few hundred dollars each. We jumped on that offer and now only have one week every other year at a different resort. We probably should get rid of that week too, but maintenance fees are not due for several months.
I would really like to find a legitimate exit strategy, DW is not so eager.
Yep. My in-laws keep buying more HGV/RCI points and I absolutely abhor it. There's no way to exchange weeks for anywhere that anyone would want to go to. Why not just rent a freaking AirBnB and vacation where you WANT to go? You can't sell your points for anything worth any value. They raise maintenance fees every year. My in-laws always pressure us to use some of their points but I don't want to go to the same location every year for vacation and don't want to go in the undesirable times that are available (we have school-age kids).
I’ve often wondered what the advantage is to owning a timeshare vs simply booking a vacation on Expedia?
GreendaleCC
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by GreendaleCC »

gtrplayer wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:47 pm
Glockenspiel wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:36 am
eddot98 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:30 am We are timeshare owners and we have actually been very pleased with our ownership, until the pandemic hit. We bought our 3 weeks all on the secondary market starting over 20 years ago, with one costing only $1. Our maintenance fees were reasonable and we never went to our home resorts, exchanging into some nice resorts using RCI, mostly in the northeast US. The pandemic changed everything. We had been exchanging every year into Lake Placid, NY in February for a winter vacation and Smugglers Notch, VT in October for fall foliage. Since the pandemic started we haven’t been able to find any exchanges to anywhere that we want to go, even though we have a ridiculous amount of trading power.
Our resort where we had two weeks needed to raise their maintenance fees significantly due to the age of the units, so they offered to allow owners the opportunity to turn back their weeks for a few hundred dollars each. We jumped on that offer and now only have one week every other year at a different resort. We probably should get rid of that week too, but maintenance fees are not due for several months.
I would really like to find a legitimate exit strategy, DW is not so eager.
Yep. My in-laws keep buying more HGV/RCI points and I absolutely abhor it. There's no way to exchange weeks for anywhere that anyone would want to go to. Why not just rent a freaking AirBnB and vacation where you WANT to go? You can't sell your points for anything worth any value. They raise maintenance fees every year. My in-laws always pressure us to use some of their points but I don't want to go to the same location every year for vacation and don't want to go in the undesirable times that are available (we have school-age kids).
I’ve often wondered what the advantage is to owning a timeshare vs simply booking a vacation on Expedia?
In my opinion, for some people (not all) the advantage is that the finely-tuned sales pitches and the well-trained sellers make new “owners” feel like they’ve made a smart choice. Who doesn’t like feeling successful in their “investments”?
neilpilot
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by neilpilot »

gtrplayer wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:47 pm

I’ve often wondered what the advantage is to owning a timeshare vs simply booking a vacation on Expedia?
This week we’re staying in a TS that we often trade into. I don’t have precise figures, but we pay about $1250/yr TS maintenance fee, and then another $200 or so to trade into this unit.

After I read your comment I went to Expedia, and they list this unit for $2661/wk.
Wannaretireearly
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by Wannaretireearly »

fetch5482 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:40 pm
Wannaretireearly wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:20 pm My line is I’m leaving the country soon, so buying anything doesn’t make sense.
They'll reply along the lines of "you can exchange the points with any of our 1500 resorts world wide. Where are you relocating to?"

I frankly think answering anything will get counter answers nearly instantly. It's best to just say "no, I won't sign anything until I get to review it with my lawyer and financial planner. If you can't give me the time to do so and get back in a few days, I'm afraid there is no point in wasting your time as I'll not purchase today."
Yep, I’ve had that response. My simple answer is I’m busy winding up/simplifying my life to move. I’m not adding complexity right now. ‘Thanks but sorry!’ It’s worked almost 30 times ;)
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ | “How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by TomatoTomahto »

Harmanic wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:14 pm
themesrob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:27 am This crosses Personal Finance and Personal Consumer Issues, but I recommend the recent segment from Last Week Tonight on timeshares and timeshare "exit" scams (warning: some salty language): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM

I've seen a number of threads on these issues before, but this is an eye-opening watch. It's worth the 25 minutes, including for the absolute evisceration of Dave Ramsey and his endorsement of a timeshare exit company which later turned out to be a total scam (and then his bizarre doubling down). I had actually seen that endorsement mentioned in a few bogleheads threads.
I absolutely loved it. Dave Ramsey is the worst kind of person, like other fake gurus. My list of pariah financial "experts" includes Suze Orman, Graham Stephan, Napoleon Hill, and Robert Kiyosaki.
I'm delighted to say that only two of those names ring a bell (Ramsey and Orman). Dave Ramsey gets some credit for his debt counseling, but it reminds me of the line (attributed to Graham Greene but I'm not sure) that, paraphrased liberally, reads "why is it that every time a war criminal is arrested, his neighbors say that he 'was always so kind to his pet canary?'"
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
stoptothink
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by stoptothink »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:17 am
Harmanic wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:14 pm
themesrob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:27 am This crosses Personal Finance and Personal Consumer Issues, but I recommend the recent segment from Last Week Tonight on timeshares and timeshare "exit" scams (warning: some salty language): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM

I've seen a number of threads on these issues before, but this is an eye-opening watch. It's worth the 25 minutes, including for the absolute evisceration of Dave Ramsey and his endorsement of a timeshare exit company which later turned out to be a total scam (and then his bizarre doubling down). I had actually seen that endorsement mentioned in a few bogleheads threads.
I absolutely loved it. Dave Ramsey is the worst kind of person, like other fake gurus. My list of pariah financial "experts" includes Suze Orman, Graham Stephan, Napoleon Hill, and Robert Kiyosaki.
I'm delighted to say that only two of those names ring a bell (Ramsey and Orman). Dave Ramsey gets some credit for his debt counseling, but it reminds me of the line (attributed to Graham Greene but I'm not sure) that, paraphrased liberally, reads "why is it that every time a war criminal is arrested, his neighbors say that he 'was always so kind to his pet canary?'"
You're not familiar with "Think and Grown Rich" or "Rich Dad, Poor Dad"? I'm definitely not a fan of any of these financial "gurus", but at least half the population is so financially illiterate that listening to any of them is probably better than nothing. I kind of think the same thing about Edward Jones; my in-laws giving their (very meager) savings to a neighbor who was an EJ rep was probably better than FIL spending it on some new gadget (which was absolutely the alternative). IMO they all have their place even if they are making money off the ignorant.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by TomatoTomahto »

stoptothink wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:41 am
You're not familiar with "Think and Grown Rich" or "Rich Dad, Poor Dad"?
I have heard of "Rich Dad, Poor Dad," but didn't know the author's name. I guess they are better than a stick in the eye.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Valuethinker
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by Valuethinker »

stoptothink wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:41 am
TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:17 am
Harmanic wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:14 pm
themesrob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:27 am This crosses Personal Finance and Personal Consumer Issues, but I recommend the recent segment from Last Week Tonight on timeshares and timeshare "exit" scams (warning: some salty language): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM

I've seen a number of threads on these issues before, but this is an eye-opening watch. It's worth the 25 minutes, including for the absolute evisceration of Dave Ramsey and his endorsement of a timeshare exit company which later turned out to be a total scam (and then his bizarre doubling down). I had actually seen that endorsement mentioned in a few bogleheads threads.
I absolutely loved it. Dave Ramsey is the worst kind of person, like other fake gurus. My list of pariah financial "experts" includes Suze Orman, Graham Stephan, Napoleon Hill, and Robert Kiyosaki.
I'm delighted to say that only two of those names ring a bell (Ramsey and Orman). Dave Ramsey gets some credit for his debt counseling, but it reminds me of the line (attributed to Graham Greene but I'm not sure) that, paraphrased liberally, reads "why is it that every time a war criminal is arrested, his neighbors say that he 'was always so kind to his pet canary?'"
You're not familiar with "Think and Grown Rich" or "Rich Dad, Poor Dad"? I'm definitely not a fan of any of these financial "gurus", but at least half the population is so financially illiterate that listening to any of them is probably better than nothing. I kind of think the same thing about Edward Jones; my in-laws giving their (very meager) savings to a neighbor who was an EJ rep was probably better than FIL spending it on some new gadget (which was absolutely the alternative). IMO they all have their place even if they are making money off the ignorant.
Kiyosaki's "advice" on property investing, and stock investing (Nasdaq, penny stocks, IPOs etc) struck me as actively dangerous. The books are actually harmful.

Go back to The Wealthy Barber, and work from there. Except I vaguely recall the "rule" there is 10% of gross income, and in truth, to fund a retirement baseline which is 60% of pre retirement income (using an annuity) the correct number is more like 15-20% these days. Which is very hard for most people facing mortgages, college expenses for their kids etc, to attain.
Valuethinker
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by Valuethinker »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:52 am
stoptothink wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:41 am
You're not familiar with "Think and Grown Rich" or "Rich Dad, Poor Dad"?
I have heard of "Rich Dad, Poor Dad," but didn't know the author's name. I guess they are better than a stick in the eye.
Kiyosaki is something of a fraud, I believe. Claiming success for his methods, when he really only didn't start to make money until his books & aids business took off.

So no, not better than no books at all.
smitcat
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by smitcat »

SuzBanyan wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:38 pm
Chip Munk wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:44 pm
SuzBanyan wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:39 am
smitcat wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:27 am
teCh0010 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:43 pm Disney Vacation Club with the ability to rent your points out (and real demand there keeping point rentals at or ahead of maintenance) and a robust secondary market seems to be one of the only points based time shares that has actual value.
Yup - not a fan of timeshares but the Disney stuff has done very well over the years.
We bought at Disney starting in 2005 and have been happy as owners. Easy to use if you can plan ahead (7 to 11 months out is best) and easy to rent to others if you need to. Resale value has increased over time which meant that we would have capital gains if we sold. We are celebrating my Dad’s 94th birthday at a 3 bedroom at Grand Californian. After renting out some of my points, my unreimbursed dues for the 4 night stay are under $300.
In case you aren't already aware, amounts you've paid over the years for Capital Reserves increase your basis, reducing your gain on the sale. You can find the Capital Reserves per point going back to 2008 or so depending on the resort on various websites if you didn't save old dues statements or budget booklets over the years. Dues statements back to 2014 can be downloaded from your online account.

I've started tracking the Capital Reserves I've paid in a spreadsheet just in case I decide to sell at some point and my contracts continue to be worth more than I paid. With enough historical Capital Reserves data, I expect I can eliminate any gain on the sale.
Thank you. I had been tracking my capital reserves but no longer need to for the worst possible reason. My husband passed away last year and my step up in basis was at a time when contract sales were at particularly high prices. At the time of his passing, the value of our points was about 2.5 times our initial purchase price. With all the price increases, I honestly don’t think even Disney timeshares will remain a great deal, although I think most who go to Disney regularly will be able to get value out of ownership.
"I honestly don’t think even Disney timeshares will remain a great deal, although I think most who go to Disney regularly will be able to get value out of ownership."
Sorry for your loss...FWIW - we actually sold because we found better value planning and executing Disney trips without the ownership.
London
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by London »

stoptothink wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:41 am
TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:17 am
Harmanic wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:14 pm
themesrob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:27 am This crosses Personal Finance and Personal Consumer Issues, but I recommend the recent segment from Last Week Tonight on timeshares and timeshare "exit" scams (warning: some salty language): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM

I've seen a number of threads on these issues before, but this is an eye-opening watch. It's worth the 25 minutes, including for the absolute evisceration of Dave Ramsey and his endorsement of a timeshare exit company which later turned out to be a total scam (and then his bizarre doubling down). I had actually seen that endorsement mentioned in a few bogleheads threads.
I absolutely loved it. Dave Ramsey is the worst kind of person, like other fake gurus. My list of pariah financial "experts" includes Suze Orman, Graham Stephan, Napoleon Hill, and Robert Kiyosaki.
I'm delighted to say that only two of those names ring a bell (Ramsey and Orman). Dave Ramsey gets some credit for his debt counseling, but it reminds me of the line (attributed to Graham Greene but I'm not sure) that, paraphrased liberally, reads "why is it that every time a war criminal is arrested, his neighbors say that he 'was always so kind to his pet canary?'"
You're not familiar with "Think and Grown Rich" or "Rich Dad, Poor Dad"? I'm definitely not a fan of any of these financial "gurus", but at least half the population is so financially illiterate that listening to any of them is probably better than nothing. I kind of think the same thing about Edward Jones; my in-laws giving their (very meager) savings to a neighbor who was an EJ rep was probably better than FIL spending it on some new gadget (which was absolutely the alternative). IMO they all have their place even if they are making money off the ignorant.
Completely agree with this point. People on this page are generally well educated on financial matters. Most others are not. Following Orman and the like are better than nothing. If anything, they all eschew consumption in favor of investment. For people with zero net worth, this is sound advice even if the vehicles aren’t optimal.
gtrplayer
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by gtrplayer »

neilpilot wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:36 am
gtrplayer wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:47 pm

I’ve often wondered what the advantage is to owning a timeshare vs simply booking a vacation on Expedia?
This week we’re staying in a TS that we often trade into. I don’t have precise figures, but we pay about $1250/yr TS maintenance fee, and then another $200 or so to trade into this unit.

After I read your comment I went to Expedia, and they list this unit for $2661/wk.
I’m not familiar enough with the timeshare industry to understand what you mean by trade into.

Did you also have to pay a lump sum upfront?
stoptothink
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by stoptothink »

London wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:55 am
stoptothink wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:41 am
TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:17 am
Harmanic wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:14 pm
themesrob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:27 am This crosses Personal Finance and Personal Consumer Issues, but I recommend the recent segment from Last Week Tonight on timeshares and timeshare "exit" scams (warning: some salty language): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM

I've seen a number of threads on these issues before, but this is an eye-opening watch. It's worth the 25 minutes, including for the absolute evisceration of Dave Ramsey and his endorsement of a timeshare exit company which later turned out to be a total scam (and then his bizarre doubling down). I had actually seen that endorsement mentioned in a few bogleheads threads.
I absolutely loved it. Dave Ramsey is the worst kind of person, like other fake gurus. My list of pariah financial "experts" includes Suze Orman, Graham Stephan, Napoleon Hill, and Robert Kiyosaki.
I'm delighted to say that only two of those names ring a bell (Ramsey and Orman). Dave Ramsey gets some credit for his debt counseling, but it reminds me of the line (attributed to Graham Greene but I'm not sure) that, paraphrased liberally, reads "why is it that every time a war criminal is arrested, his neighbors say that he 'was always so kind to his pet canary?'"
You're not familiar with "Think and Grown Rich" or "Rich Dad, Poor Dad"? I'm definitely not a fan of any of these financial "gurus", but at least half the population is so financially illiterate that listening to any of them is probably better than nothing. I kind of think the same thing about Edward Jones; my in-laws giving their (very meager) savings to a neighbor who was an EJ rep was probably better than FIL spending it on some new gadget (which was absolutely the alternative). IMO they all have their place even if they are making money off the ignorant.
Completely agree with this point. People on this page are generally well educated on financial matters. Most others are not. Following Orman and the like are better than nothing. If anything, they all eschew consumption in favor of investment. For people with zero net worth, this is sound advice even if the vehicles aren’t optimal.
IMO, that's the most important concept, they all preach investment over consumption. That's the first step in becoming financially responsible and independent and a disconcertingly high percentage of the population can't take that first step. I can laugh at their basic financial advice (that I understood as an adolescent) and their terrible investment schemes (that I recognized as a joke as a teen), but I think those people help more people than they hurt and they aren't forcing anybody to do anything. To each their own.
neilpilot
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by neilpilot »

gtrplayer wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:20 am
neilpilot wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:36 am
gtrplayer wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:47 pm

I’ve often wondered what the advantage is to owning a timeshare vs simply booking a vacation on Expedia?
This week we’re staying in a TS that we often trade into. I don’t have precise figures, but we pay about $1250/yr TS maintenance fee, and then another $200 or so to trade into this unit.

After I read your comment I went to Expedia, and they list this unit for $2661/wk.
I’m not familiar enough with the timeshare industry to understand what you mean by trade into.

Did you also have to pay a lump sum upfront?
Trade - thru Marriott's Interval International I can trade my week for another from.1 year before to 2 years after my week occurs. That's the service represented by that $200.

Lump sump - I paid about $3250 to purchase the week around 30 years ago.
smitcat
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by smitcat »

neilpilot wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:45 am
gtrplayer wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:20 am
neilpilot wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:36 am
gtrplayer wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:47 pm

I’ve often wondered what the advantage is to owning a timeshare vs simply booking a vacation on Expedia?
This week we’re staying in a TS that we often trade into. I don’t have precise figures, but we pay about $1250/yr TS maintenance fee, and then another $200 or so to trade into this unit.

After I read your comment I went to Expedia, and they list this unit for $2661/wk.
I’m not familiar enough with the timeshare industry to understand what you mean by trade into.

Did you also have to pay a lump sum upfront?
Trade - thru Marriott's Interval International I can trade my week for another from.1 year before to 2 years after my week occurs. That's the service represented by that $200.

Lump sump - I paid about $3250 to purchase the week around 30 years ago.
"Lump sump - I paid about $3250 to purchase the week around 30 years ago."
Which after inflation alone is about $6,560 today.
scguy613
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by scguy613 »

I bought a points based Marriott Vacation Club time share several years ago. Their pitch was you could enjoy any of their properties around the world. Three years in a row, we tried to reserve several different locations only to get a reply that the property wasn’t available, even though I could go to the Marriott hotel reservation site and find that these properties were available if you paid $$ instead of using vacation club points. Also, the maintenance fees weren’t low cost and increased every year. I was finally able to sell back to Marriott for 65% of original purchase price. I consider time shares scams and never again! Now, I just pay for where I want to go.
jima
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by jima »

fetch5482 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:40 pm
Wannaretireearly wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:20 pm My line is I’m leaving the country soon, so buying anything doesn’t make sense.
They'll reply along the lines of "you can exchange the points with any of our 1500 resorts world wide. Where are you relocating to?"

I frankly think answering anything will get counter answers nearly instantly. It's best to just say "no, I won't sign anything until I get to review it with my lawyer and financial planner. If you can't give me the time to do so and get back in a few days, I'm afraid there is no point in wasting your time as I'll not purchase today."
Even this is more than is needed. Remember the sales person generally doesn’t want to waste time either, so be up front and just say “I’m only here for the freebie”, don’t respond with more than one word answers, and if it seems the presentation is going long remind them you are only here for X more minutes (including any wait time you had).

I don’t do these often but recently did attend one and got about $600 of value for around an hour of time. That was worth it for me.
EdNorton
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by EdNorton »

It appears that Bogleheads approve of time shares ahead of owning individual stocks.
:sharebeer
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Wannaretireearly
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by Wannaretireearly »

jima wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:55 am
fetch5482 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:40 pm
Wannaretireearly wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:20 pm My line is I’m leaving the country soon, so buying anything doesn’t make sense.
They'll reply along the lines of "you can exchange the points with any of our 1500 resorts world wide. Where are you relocating to?"

I frankly think answering anything will get counter answers nearly instantly. It's best to just say "no, I won't sign anything until I get to review it with my lawyer and financial planner. If you can't give me the time to do so and get back in a few days, I'm afraid there is no point in wasting your time as I'll not purchase today."
Even this is more than is needed. Remember the sales person generally doesn’t want to waste time either, so be up front and just say “I’m only here for the freebie”, don’t respond with more than one word answers, and if it seems the presentation is going long remind them you are only here for X more minutes (including any wait time you had).

I don’t do these often but recently did attend one and got about $600 of value for around an hour of time. That was worth it for me.
I think I’ve tried that too. I usually drop ‘moving soon blah, not interested in the first 15 mins’. Agree on the value/benefit, although I think I’m now done! Unless it’s the four seasons vacation club offer 😂
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ | “How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“
bubbly
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by bubbly »

Looks like Ramsey is now being sued on promoting the timeshare exit companies:

https://www.businessinsider.com/dave-ra ... 2023-6?amp
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by minimalistmarc »

fetch5482 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:01 pm This was timely since we just agreed to attend a timeshare presentation in Mexico next month in exchange for an ultra cheap 5-nights all inclusive vacation.

Wife and I are on the same page - we do not want to purchase one. We have decent income, so we are probably good "targets" for these salespeople. We just plan to toe the line that "we do not make financial decisions without consulting our financial advisor and lawyer, so no thank you". I am sure they will have retorts ready, like telling that I can back out within X days if the consultant/lawyer says no etc; but we plan to just say "no thank you, if we want one we will buy later from secondary market".

We have both agreed that if any question is directed to the Mrs, she will just look at me and allow me to respond; so they cannot pit us against each other. The last time we attended a sales presentation was in Hawaii about a decade or so ago; so our skills are now a bit rusty but we still are resolved to just keep saying no.

Any other tips to avoid wasting time and escaping faster is appreciated.
Just say you only came for the cheap holiday and have no intention of buying. They are not your friends.
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themesrob
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by themesrob »

bubbly wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:18 pm Looks like Ramsey is now being sued on promoting the timeshare exit companies:

https://www.businessinsider.com/dave-ra ... 2023-6?amp
$450k/month to advertise their "services"?! I'm amazed people trust a word out of that guy's mouth...
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goingup
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by goingup »

I've done 5 TS offers through Westin. 2 on Kauai, 2 on Maui and 1 in Palm Springs. The offers were too good to pass up. Usually 5 nites, a rental car, resort credit for a ridiculously low price. Maybe $699? (Can't remember exactly)

I'm done with them, however. It's 90 minutes of torture. The salespeople are soooo good, so charming and compelling. You just want to buy in. I'm pretty stoic but my partner becomes beguiled ever single time. I have no desire to vacation every year at a Westin resort. Using points at Bonvoy properties isn't an especially good deal either. Last time we barely escaped buying a timeshare.

Those of you who are getting vacation deal in exchange for a timeshare presentation, be vigilant. It's really hard not to sucked into their vortex! :twisted:
gtrplayer
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by gtrplayer »

themesrob wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:57 am
bubbly wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:18 pm Looks like Ramsey is now being sued on promoting the timeshare exit companies:

https://www.businessinsider.com/dave-ra ... 2023-6?amp
$450k/month to advertise their "services"?! I'm amazed people trust a word out of that guy's mouth...
What’s sad about Dave Ramsey is he gives advice on debt that can help people and so people trust him, but then he abuses that trust.
Aggieland
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by Aggieland »

I hope this thread stays open and not locked.

This is such an eye opener to learn about the time share industry, the enticement, contract complexity, biases of famous financial gurus etc.
normaldude
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by normaldude »

Aggieland wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:06 pm I hope this thread stays open and not locked.

This is such an eye opener to learn about the time share industry, the enticement, contract complexity, biases of famous financial gurus etc.
Here are some other good videos about timeshares & timeshare exit scams:

The Money Guy Show: Are Timeshares Worth The Money?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD-ELsngOJc

Clark Howard: Timeshare Resale Scams:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qqY8iaAH8w
Aggieland
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by Aggieland »

The tonight show video on timeshare makes it sound like the mistake made by a person signing the contract will have consequences for the heirs?

How is this even possible? I cannot think of any other contracts that are signed by the wife/husband, that has pass on implications for heirs

How is such a contract even legal and how does our legal system even allow such a thing?
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StevieG72
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by StevieG72 »

I really dislike timeshares myself and think they are generally a bad idea.

My family owns many of them and everyone seems to enjoy a week in Nags Head NC. Yearly maintenance fees have increased, however nowhere near what you would pay for a week with similar accommodations. Four family members own at the same place for the same week. It is nice to be able to spend some time, but not the entire week with everyone such as renting a big vacation home.

RCI fees have increased over the years and I am not sure anyone really knows of points or weeks are more valuable!

Unfortunately the exit plan can be a hassle, as people age and travel less they can become a burden.
Fools think their own way is right, but the wise listen to others.
000
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by 000 »

Aggieland wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:32 pm The tonight show video on timeshare makes it sound like the mistake made by a person signing the contract will have consequences for the heirs?

How is this even possible? I cannot think of any other contracts that are signed by the wife/husband, that has pass on implications for heirs

How is such a contract even legal and how does our legal system even allow such a thing?
Why can't the heirs disclaim inheritance of the "asset"?
gips
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by gips »

anyone considering purchasing, selling or exiting a timeshare should head over to the timeshare users group https://tug2.net/ to learn the truth about the industry. there’s a supportive community, a buy/sell section and a wealth of information about different properties. the group has been featured in the wsj and the nyt.

best,
ps if you’re not a tug member there are ads that support the site. some of the ads have links like “how to cancel a timeshare”. make sure you are clicking on site content and not the ads!
MDfan
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by MDfan »

fetch5482 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:01 pm This was timely since we just agreed to attend a timeshare presentation in Mexico next month in exchange for an ultra cheap 5-nights all inclusive vacation.

Wife and I are on the same page - we do not want to purchase one. We have decent income, so we are probably good "targets" for these salespeople. We just plan to toe the line that "we do not make financial decisions without consulting our financial advisor and lawyer, so no thank you". I am sure they will have retorts ready, like telling that I can back out within X days if the consultant/lawyer says no etc; but we plan to just say "no thank you, if we want one we will buy later from secondary market".

We have both agreed that if any question is directed to the Mrs, she will just look at me and allow me to respond; so they cannot pit us against each other. The last time we attended a sales presentation was in Hawaii about a decade or so ago; so our skills are now a bit rusty but we still are resolved to just keep saying no.

Any other tips to avoid wasting time and escaping faster is appreciated.


We've done multiple timeshare presentations. Got a free dinner at Ruth's Chris in Vegas. And heavily discounted stays in Sedona, Disney, and Phoenix. Thinking of doing the Maui one we keep getting emails for. I have no problem saying no repeatedly. I tell them we just bought a second vacation home and we really can't afford a timeshare at this time. Used to be the "we have 3 kids that are going to be attending college soon." Never had an issue.
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by Nate79 »

000 wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:40 am
Aggieland wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:32 pm The tonight show video on timeshare makes it sound like the mistake made by a person signing the contract will have consequences for the heirs?

How is this even possible? I cannot think of any other contracts that are signed by the wife/husband, that has pass on implications for heirs

How is such a contract even legal and how does our legal system even allow such a thing?
Why can't the heirs disclaim inheritance of the "asset"?
I guess that would be possible. It would be a liability of the estate.
Silverado
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by Silverado »

000 wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:40 am
Aggieland wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:32 pm The tonight show video on timeshare makes it sound like the mistake made by a person signing the contract will have consequences for the heirs?

How is this even possible? I cannot think of any other contracts that are signed by the wife/husband, that has pass on implications for heirs

How is such a contract even legal and how does our legal system even allow such a thing?
Why can't the heirs disclaim inheritance of the "asset"?
One key of course is the heir knowing enough to get their lawyer involved to properly disclaim it. There was a thread somewhere a year or so ago where an heir had been paying the fees for some time because it was a bill that came in. That seemed to be quite hard to get out of.

My parents have one, and I mentally prepare while reading these threads to seek that “asset” out and make sure to take proper action. I recall my sibling mentioning once that they wanted it, so it might be quite simple.
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by bob60014 »

Aren't those that go to these presentations and receive free goods or discounted stays, with no intent of buying (and have a rejection plan) going in, actually "scamming the scammers"? Seems bogus all the way around to me.
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fizxman
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by fizxman »

bob60014 wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:58 am Aren't those that go to these presentations and receive free goods or discounted stays, with no intent of buying (and have a rejection plan) going in, actually "scamming the scammers"? Seems bogus all the way around to me.
Not necessarily, it depends on how everything is phrased. "Sit through this 90 minutes no-obligation seminar about our timeshares and receive free..." If I sit through it, I upheld my end of the bargain, now it's their turn.
MDfan wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:21 am
fetch5482 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:01 pm This was timely since we just agreed to attend a timeshare presentation in Mexico next month in exchange for an ultra cheap 5-nights all inclusive vacation.

Wife and I are on the same page - we do not want to purchase one. We have decent income, so we are probably good "targets" for these salespeople. We just plan to toe the line that "we do not make financial decisions without consulting our financial advisor and lawyer, so no thank you". I am sure they will have retorts ready, like telling that I can back out within X days if the consultant/lawyer says no etc; but we plan to just say "no thank you, if we want one we will buy later from secondary market".

We have both agreed that if any question is directed to the Mrs, she will just look at me and allow me to respond; so they cannot pit us against each other. The last time we attended a sales presentation was in Hawaii about a decade or so ago; so our skills are now a bit rusty but we still are resolved to just keep saying no.

Any other tips to avoid wasting time and escaping faster is appreciated.
We've done multiple timeshare presentations. Got a free dinner at Ruth's Chris in Vegas. And heavily discounted stays in Sedona, Disney, and Phoenix. Thinking of doing the Maui one we keep getting emails for. I have no problem saying no repeatedly. I tell them we just bought a second vacation home and we really can't afford a timeshare at this time. Used to be the "we have 3 kids that are going to be attending college soon." Never had an issue.
I've been to only one timeshare meeting and DW and I were able to get out pretty quickly because we told them we just bought a house (which was true) and we didn't have the money for a down payment (which was also true). This was at a Hilton Grand Vacation resort in Hawaii. We did it to get various discounts around the Big Island.
Nate79 wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:42 am
000 wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:40 am
Aggieland wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:32 pm The tonight show video on timeshare makes it sound like the mistake made by a person signing the contract will have consequences for the heirs?

How is this even possible? I cannot think of any other contracts that are signed by the wife/husband, that has pass on implications for heirs

How is such a contract even legal and how does our legal system even allow such a thing?
Why can't the heirs disclaim inheritance of the "asset"?
I guess that would be possible. It would be a liability of the estate.
This has me a little nervous because my in-laws have 2-3 timeshares that my wife and I do not want. I don't know if my wife's two siblings what them or not but they can have them as far as we're concerned. So we may be off the hook if that's the case. I guess DW will have to ask her parents about them next time we see them.

I doubt this would be the case but I wonder if they would make more money if timeshares were easier to get out. I'd consider one if I could get out of it easily enough but as it stands today, I won't consider one.
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by JD2775 »

Harmanic wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:14 pm
themesrob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:27 am This crosses Personal Finance and Personal Consumer Issues, but I recommend the recent segment from Last Week Tonight on timeshares and timeshare "exit" scams (warning: some salty language): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM

I've seen a number of threads on these issues before, but this is an eye-opening watch. It's worth the 25 minutes, including for the absolute evisceration of Dave Ramsey and his endorsement of a timeshare exit company which later turned out to be a total scam (and then his bizarre doubling down). I had actually seen that endorsement mentioned in a few bogleheads threads.
I absolutely loved it. Dave Ramsey is the worst kind of person, like other fake gurus. My list of pariah financial "experts" includes Suze Orman, Graham Stephan, Napoleon Hill, and Robert Kiyosaki.
Interesting. Not sure I would put Graham Stephan in that list? He doesn't seem to be self-promoting much, and is a big fan of low cost index investing. Some of his videos (albeit with the clickbait titles) seem relatively decent. I see Ramsey, Orman and Kiyosaki as a different level of "pariah" altogether.
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by JD2775 »

I am pretty sure my brother and sister-in-law are playing in this timeshare world, and from the comments I have heard about their finances, they really have no business doing so. Not my business though so I stay out of it :)
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MrBobcat
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by MrBobcat »

fetch5482 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:01 pm This was timely since we just agreed to attend a timeshare presentation in Mexico next month in exchange for an ultra cheap 5-nights all inclusive vacation.

Wife and I are on the same page - we do not want to purchase one. We have decent income, so we are probably good "targets" for these salespeople. We just plan to toe the line that "we do not make financial decisions without consulting our financial advisor and lawyer, so no thank you". I am sure they will have retorts ready, like telling that I can back out within X days if the consultant/lawyer says no etc; but we plan to just say "no thank you, if we want one we will buy later from secondary market".

We have both agreed that if any question is directed to the Mrs, she will just look at me and allow me to respond; so they cannot pit us against each other. The last time we attended a sales presentation was in Hawaii about a decade or so ago; so our skills are now a bit rusty but we still are resolved to just keep saying no.

Any other tips to avoid wasting time and escaping faster is appreciated.
You couldn't pay me enough to attend one of these things, it would be torture.

Anecdotal, but my aunt and uncle own several and never seem to be able to use them. Anyway they were on vacation with my parents and got talked into going to yet another sales pitch, I think it was for a "free" helicopter ride. My folks refused to attend and spent the afternoon on the beach. When my aunt and uncle returned she sheepishly admitted they got talked into yet another one.
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fetch5482
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by fetch5482 »

MrBobcat wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:59 am
fetch5482 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:01 pm This was timely since we just agreed to attend a timeshare presentation in Mexico next month in exchange for an ultra cheap 5-nights all inclusive vacation.

Wife and I are on the same page - we do not want to purchase one. We have decent income, so we are probably good "targets" for these salespeople. We just plan to toe the line that "we do not make financial decisions without consulting our financial advisor and lawyer, so no thank you". I am sure they will have retorts ready, like telling that I can back out within X days if the consultant/lawyer says no etc; but we plan to just say "no thank you, if we want one we will buy later from secondary market".

We have both agreed that if any question is directed to the Mrs, she will just look at me and allow me to respond; so they cannot pit us against each other. The last time we attended a sales presentation was in Hawaii about a decade or so ago; so our skills are now a bit rusty but we still are resolved to just keep saying no.

Any other tips to avoid wasting time and escaping faster is appreciated.
You couldn't pay me enough to attend one of these things, it would be torture.

Anecdotal, but my aunt and uncle own several and never seem to be able to use them. Anyway they were on vacation with my parents and got talked into going to yet another sales pitch, I think it was for a "free" helicopter ride. My folks refused to attend and spent the afternoon on the beach. When my aunt and uncle returned she sheepishly admitted they got talked into yet another one.
Just as way of an update, we sat through the presentation at our trip in Cabo. It was fun overall - we were in and out in under 90 minutes (around 70-80 mins if I recall). They were not overly pushy, and we stood our ground to say NO. They did try to put up an emotional show, but I cut them off and just told them that I am here for the discounted 5 nights, and its a financial decision where emotions have no place for me. I did not disclose much information about our income (other than that we qualify for the minimum required income to attend), or our vacation patterns during the initial survey. It was worth the 90 minute we spent, atleast for us, given the difference between their rack rate and discounted rates we got for 5 nights all-inclusive stay.
(AGE minus 23%) Bonds | 5% REITs | Balance 80% US (75/25 TSM/SCV) + 20% International (80/20 Developed/Emerging)
000
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Re: Last Week Tonight on timeshares

Post by 000 »

Nate79 wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:42 am I guess that would be possible. It would be a liability of the estate.
If all heirs disclaimed the TS, do you think that theoretically the TS company could force the estate to remain open to pay for ongoing maintenance?
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