What Car To Get?

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EightBall
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What Car To Get?

Post by EightBall »

Let me start off by saying: I'm not a car person, at all. But I find myself in a position where I likely need to get a new (to me) vehicle and was hoping the wise bogleheads could help point me in the right direction.

Current vehicle: 2006 Honda Pilot, 125k miles. I picked this up in the summer of 2021 when cars were in tight supply. I was hoping it would hold me until some of the shortages worked themselves out. My inspection is due in 3 months and it will likely not pass without a decent investment. New tires, probably a new catalytic converter, maybe more. I've been happy with this car, but ready to move on.

New vehicle: Again, not a car person. I really don't care what I get, but am loosely thinking a compact to mid-sized SUV would be appropriate. I have never used the third row of seating in my Pilot, though the large trunk has been useful for some Home Depot runs. Really, I just don't need something this large regularly. Something a little smaller, more efficient, and cheaper seems to make sense. I think I prefer to get a new vehicle, rather than used. This is because 1) I know little about cars so prefer something less likely to have issues and 2) I don't have a trusted mechanic to help with any issues that arise or to help in diagnosing a potential replacement car. As far as budget goes, I can pay cash and could reasonably spend around 50k on a new vehicle, but much prefer to be more like 30k. I am really only looking at gas-engine cars as I do not have a garage or outdoor electricity near my driveway.

Important details: My spouse has a company provided Chevy Equinox. I am authorized to drive this car and the company covers all expenses (insurance, maintenance, all gas and tolls including personal use). As a result of this setup, our family of 3 uses this car 90%+ of the time. Weekend outings or road trips, we always take this car. I will only use my car when this car is with my spouse at work. Meaning my car is primarily used for errands around town and shuttling my son around to school and local events. Over the last 2 years, I have averaged about 2500 miles per year on my car.

Overall, I am looking for something that won't give me headaches and will keep costs down. It will be very low mileage and I don't see any reason I wouldn't keep it for 10 years or more. I was thinking maybe something like a Hyundai Tucson or Santa Fe. But most importantly, I'm looking for a plan. For example, the last time I got a new vehicle many years ago I leased. But that doesn't seem to make much sense in this situation, as after 3 years and less than 10k miles on my car, I would likely pay any residual and just keep it. A used or pre-owned vehicle might save some money upfront, but I fear something like this could become a headache I prefer to avoid. A friend has suggested that something like a Toyota Highlander or Lexus would hold its value better. But the Highlander seems like more (both car and money) than I need and the Lexus mostly strikes me as an unnecessary extravagance. But maybe I'm looking at this wrong?

I'd really appreciate any suggestions on how to best approach this financially. Thanks!
livesoft
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by livesoft »

New tires are inexpensive compared to buying new tires connected to a new car. Based on your annual mileage, I would not bother get a new car until you learned the cost of passing inspection.
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H-Town
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by H-Town »

Just keep the current car.
Time is the ultimate currency.
YERER01
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by YERER01 »

Lower trims of Subaru Outback or Forester or Crosstrek may fit your need. All can be had under $30k. Outback and Forster are the best in their classes for total cost of ownership, per Kelly Blue Book.
lakpr
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by lakpr »

If you can find it, a Toyota RAV4, even if it is a gasoline only version. Even models as old as 2014 vintage will give you trouble free service at least another 5 years.

For safety reasons, I don't recommend going older than 2014 model years. That's about when Toyota added safety features like rear camera as standard on RAV4

Current owner of a 2021 RAV4 Hybrid.
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Kenkat
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by Kenkat »

Why do you expect to need to replace the catalytic converter? It’s not a part that typically goes bad.
Topic Author
EightBall
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by EightBall »

Kenkat wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:13 pm Why do you expect to need to replace the catalytic converter? It’s not a part that typically goes bad.
Appreciate the responses.

A friend (who is no longer around) helped with my inspection last year. At the time, he said the car was "throwing a code" related to the catalytic converter. He cleared the code by resetting the system or something like that, had me driver the car for an hour or so and then had the car inspected and passed. He told me that it probably needed a new catalytic converter and recommended a shop that could do it. He estimated the cost at around $1500 for part and labor.

Other issues include dashboard lights for both the 4WD and the anti-lock brakes which recently came on. The 4WD needs to be specifically turned on to be active on this car, and I have never used it in my 2 years of ownership. I also do not believe the anti-lock brakes have ever activated while I was driving. Have no idea what the issues may be here that caused the lights to come on.

There is some recommendation toward keeping the car, or at least getting a better idea of what needs to be done. At what point does one decide whether or not it is a wise financial decision to put more money into an older car? I would be fine with keeping this car, but can also afford a new one. How much would it be worthwhile to spend to keep this one?
invest4
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by invest4 »

For the kind of driving you are describing for this car, I would most definitely buy used. You can pick perennial winners like the Toyota Rav4 as mentioned by one of the other posters or look around for something you like and check its quality and reliability (JD power and other sources).

One of the nice things about a new car is you may already have a good idea what issues there are, and for the most egregious...completely avoid them. It is not a certainty that a new car will be less likely to have issues.
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Bogle7
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Get a new car

Post by Bogle7 »

EightBall wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:31 pmI would be fine with keeping this car, but can also afford a new one. How much would it be worthwhile to spend to keep this one?
A new car will be much safer.
We drive about 2500 miles/year.
We replaced our 2007 Audi (60K miles) with a VW ID.4 and really like it.
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urban
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by urban »

You do not have a good idea about the scope of work your car needs. Take your car to a couple of independent mechanics for estimates (not dealers). Ask your neighbors/friends/co-workers about their mechanics. Or look at cartalk web site https://www.cartalk.com/mechanics-files
Without understanding what your car needs to pass inspection, there is not much to discuss. Unless of course you just want an another vehicle.
workingstiff
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by workingstiff »

EightBall wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:08 pmI was thinking maybe something like a Hyundai Tucson or Santa Fe.
Don't buy a Hyundai or a Kia. Just google "Kia boys ticktok" or watch this youtube video to learn about the rash of thefts of Kias and Hyundais because they are so easy to steal. State Farm is even saying now they won't offer insurance on some of them. I feel for the owners.
It's always cheaper to stick with your used car (up to a point). If you can get it to pass inspection and just have to get new tires, that's the way to go. But it is stressful to wonder about those dash lights. Best thing is if you could find a trustworthy mechanic to look at it and give you some advice.
Although it's tempting to get a new car, based on your needs and usage, getting another used car would be the better option, but I understand making sure you get a reliable used car can be tough, especially based on the one you have now.
Last edited by workingstiff on Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
artpennypacker
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by artpennypacker »

Typical boglehead wisdom is to get a easy to work with good Honda or Toyota and drive it into the ground. You already have a honda, repairs may not be much and usually hondas can keep on going with minimal upkeep after. Obviously if repairs are more than vehicle value, that should seal the deal and mean it's time to move on. But I think it's unlikely to be the case.

If you want something slightly newer but still used, look for used newer versions of honda/toyota (per typical boglehead convention.) The premium on these are still high in this market are to the point where if you can find a new one without a markup it might also be economical, but rare to find. Keep in mind some of the old head toyota lovers are accusing toyota of moving away from reliability, but I don't know much more than opinions on that subject.

Again, if you want drive it to the ground mentality, I would not get a hybrid, although if you do get a toyota. Unknown cost of replacement is the issue with newer entrants into the hybrid market.

However, if you want a new vehicle for even slight enjoyment factor or peace of mind with warranty and new car smell, get what you want and be ok with it likely costing more in the long run. I do it all the time.

Hyundai and Kia I would stay away from, unless it's push to start. I've heard some markets cant get insurance for keyed models because of how easy they are to steal, although supposedly a fix is coming.
tibbitts
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by tibbitts »

urban wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:58 pm You do not have a good idea about the scope of work your car needs. Take your car to a couple of independent mechanics for estimates (not dealers). Ask your neighbors/friends/co-workers about their mechanics. Or look at cartalk web site https://www.cartalk.com/mechanics-files
Without understanding what your car needs to pass inspection, there is not much to discuss. Unless of course you just want an another vehicle.
The OP can try that but the OP should assume that each one will cost at least $100 for an opinion. So the OP does have to have some kind of stop-loss strategy.

Since the root of the issue wasn't performance but a code, if the engine light reappears the OP could buy a code reader for relatively low cost. Or borrow one for free at Autozone or similar but that gets old fast given the low cost. My similar-age, very limited-use car started displaying a check-engine-light related to sensors and much to my surprise, some fuel system cleaner has suppressed the codes for many months now. I'm not a big believer in chemical but sometimes they do work.
urban
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by urban »

tibbitts wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 9:56 am Since the root of the issue wasn't performance but a code, if the engine light reappears the OP could buy a code reader for relatively low cost. Or borrow one for free at Autozone or similar but that gets old fast given the low cost.
Yes, it is a good starting point. Many auto stores scan codes for free.
TheGiantess
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by TheGiantess »

I seond what workingstiff said. Don't buy a Hyundai or Kia.
We own two Elantras and both can easily be stolen with a USB cord. Maybe I'm being short sighted but I will never buy these brands again. We would have had it not been for how they are handling this issue. I know others will disagree and that's fine. People who can afford the higher end vehicles don't have to deal with the issue like people like me who buy less expensive cars because that's what is affordable on our budget. Now the constant worry of them being stolen even tho we have clubs on them every second we are not in them. We just took our 2019 Elantra in to have the free "fix" done. Sorry for the rant but I would hate for anyone else to have to deal with something like this.
TG
bloom2708
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by bloom2708 »

I would put new tires on and replace the cat converter or O2 sensor.

Partially because you just bought this car. It is under 150k miles and buying a new car will cost 10x or 20x the repair/maintenance bill.

I've figured out you can't save money by buying a used or new car.

Now, if you just want a new/used car and have the funds to buy a different car, then go for it.

My stab in the dark, buy a 2017-2019 Ford Escape with less than 50k miles. AWD if you live in a snowy area. :mrgreen:
H-Town
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by H-Town »

tibbitts wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 9:56 am
urban wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:58 pm You do not have a good idea about the scope of work your car needs. Take your car to a couple of independent mechanics for estimates (not dealers). Ask your neighbors/friends/co-workers about their mechanics. Or look at cartalk web site https://www.cartalk.com/mechanics-files
Without understanding what your car needs to pass inspection, there is not much to discuss. Unless of course you just want an another vehicle.
The OP can try that but the OP should assume that each one will cost at least $100 for an opinion. So the OP does have to have some kind of stop-loss strategy.

Since the root of the issue wasn't performance but a code, if the engine light reappears the OP could buy a code reader for relatively low cost. Or borrow one for free at Autozone or similar but that gets old fast given the low cost. My similar-age, very limited-use car started displaying a check-engine-light related to sensors and much to my surprise, some fuel system cleaner has suppressed the codes for many months now. I'm not a big believer in chemical but sometimes they do work.
My old car also threw out check engine light code randomly. It's on for a few months, then it's off for a few months. Last year when I brought my car in for annual inspection, check engine was off and it passed. A few months later, it came on. And now, it's off again.

Now I'm working from home. It's just a car that I drive around town, so less than 3,000 miles driven a year. Car is paid off 10 years ago. Insurance is dirt cheap. Since it's driven less than 3,000 miles, cost of maintenance, tire/brake replacement, etc. is very low. And I don't have to put much money into repairs unless it absolutely has to. My car just cannot beep at me if I change lane without turn signal. It's not that "high tech".
Time is the ultimate currency.
chuckwalla
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by chuckwalla »

FYI. The Kia/Hyundai theft is an issue only on their base non-push button start models.
And on the affected models, they're rolling out a software update which won't let the car start unless unlocked first with the car's remote.
DS03
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by DS03 »

Get a good estimate on everything that needs to be done on the current vehicle first, as keeping it is the logical choice here considering you rarely drive it. If it needs to go and you want an SUV, sounds like a used Toyota RAV4 or Mazda CX-5 might be your best bets.
workingstiff
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by workingstiff »

chuckwalla wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:16 pm FYI. The Kia/Hyundai theft is an issue only on their base non-push button start models.
And on the affected models, they're rolling out a software update which won't let the car start unless unlocked first with the car's remote.
Good to hear. I just learned about this problem recently, since I was researching potential used cars for my daughter. I wonder how much the fix will help though, at least for a while. The question is will tik tok idiots still bust your window and tear up your steering column thinking they can start the car with the usb cable hack? You car doesn't get stolen because it won't start with the software fix, but if people are still breaking windows and screwing up your car then that's still an issue.
Will be interesting to see how this plays out, and I don't know if I'd buy one of their cars until I know.
chuckwalla
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by chuckwalla »

workingstiff wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:36 pm
Good to hear. I just learned about this problem recently, since I was researching potential used cars for my daughter. I wonder how much the fix will help though, at least for a while. The question is will tik tok idiots still bust your window and tear up your steering column thinking they can start the car with the usb cable hack? You car doesn't get stolen because it won't start with the software fix, but if people are still breaking windows and screwing up your car then that's still an issue.
Will be interesting to see how this plays out, and I don't know if I'd buy one of their cars until I know.
When they do the update, they will also apply a window sticker warning potential thieves that the car won't start. But will the thieves pay attention to it while in the act?
Dkells4
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by Dkells4 »

My wife has a Kia Nero Hybrid - it gets 55 mpg and is just a great comfortable well built vehicle. Haven't heard about the ease of stealing these vehicles.
mortfree
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by mortfree »

It may come down to what car is available and when that meets your needs.

You might want Car A but it will be 3 or months until you can take delivery.

I’d fix the pilot to buy some time if you run into the above situation.
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by Outer Marker »

EightBall wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:08 pm Current vehicle: 2006 Honda Pilot, 125k miles. I picked this up in the summer of 2021 when cars were in tight supply. I was hoping it would hold me until some of the shortages worked themselves out. My inspection is due in 3 months and it will likely not pass without a decent investment. New tires, probably a new catalytic converter, maybe more. I've been happy with this car, but ready to move on. ... I can pay cash and could reasonably spend around 50k on a new vehicle, but much prefer to be more like 30k.
125,000 miles is nothing on a Honda. You've got another 125,000 or more for the price of doing a few small repairs. For a couple thousand, you'll have a reliable vehicle you can drive for many years at far less than the minimum $30,000 you're thinking about spending.
ncbill
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by ncbill »

EightBall wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:08 pm Let me start off by saying: I'm not a car person, at all. But I find myself in a position where I likely need to get a new (to me) vehicle and was hoping the wise bogleheads could help point me in the right direction.

Current vehicle: 2006 Honda Pilot, 125k miles. I picked this up in the summer of 2021 when cars were in tight supply. I was hoping it would hold me until some of the shortages worked themselves out. My inspection is due in 3 months and it will likely not pass without a decent investment. New tires, probably a new catalytic converter, maybe more. I've been happy with this car, but ready to move on.

New vehicle: Again, not a car person. I really don't care what I get, but am loosely thinking a compact to mid-sized SUV would be appropriate. I have never used the third row of seating in my Pilot, though the large trunk has been useful for some Home Depot runs. Really, I just don't need something this large regularly. Something a little smaller, more efficient, and cheaper seems to make sense. I think I prefer to get a new vehicle, rather than used. This is because 1) I know little about cars so prefer something less likely to have issues and 2) I don't have a trusted mechanic to help with any issues that arise or to help in diagnosing a potential replacement car. As far as budget goes, I can pay cash and could reasonably spend around 50k on a new vehicle, but much prefer to be more like 30k. I am really only looking at gas-engine cars as I do not have a garage or outdoor electricity near my driveway.

Important details: My spouse has a company provided Chevy Equinox. I am authorized to drive this car and the company covers all expenses (insurance, maintenance, all gas and tolls including personal use). As a result of this setup, our family of 3 uses this car 90%+ of the time. Weekend outings or road trips, we always take this car. I will only use my car when this car is with my spouse at work. Meaning my car is primarily used for errands around town and shuttling my son around to school and local events. Over the last 2 years, I have averaged about 2500 miles per year on my car.

Overall, I am looking for something that won't give me headaches and will keep costs down. It will be very low mileage and I don't see any reason I wouldn't keep it for 10 years or more. I was thinking maybe something like a Hyundai Tucson or Santa Fe. But most importantly, I'm looking for a plan. For example, the last time I got a new vehicle many years ago I leased. But that doesn't seem to make much sense in this situation, as after 3 years and less than 10k miles on my car, I would likely pay any residual and just keep it. A used or pre-owned vehicle might save some money upfront, but I fear something like this could become a headache I prefer to avoid. A friend has suggested that something like a Toyota Highlander or Lexus would hold its value better. But the Highlander seems like more (both car and money) than I need and the Lexus mostly strikes me as an unnecessary extravagance. But maybe I'm looking at this wrong?

I'd really appreciate any suggestions on how to best approach this financially. Thanks!
How strict is your jurisdiction on emissions?

Here if your vehicle fails inspection due to emissions you only have to spend "at least $200" on repairs...replacing an OEM catalytic converter with a cheap 3rd party converter would easily meet that threshold.

Then if it fails emissions again you can get a waiver & pass inspection.
cjcerny
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by cjcerny »

Go get yourself a copy of the annual auto issue of Consumer Reports. Any make/model advice you get here is going to be anecdotal. That being said, both new and used car prices remain sky high. Best bet would be to fix what you already have.
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Kagord
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by Kagord »

2500K miles a year, I would just keep your old car, and just fix it as economically as possible. You may be able to get the cat done for less than $500 if you shop around, even at $1500, replacing with a newer car for that amount of mileage doesn't sound worth it. IE, higher insurance, higher registration, depreciation, that's going to be a lot more than $1500.
jnw
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by jnw »

Yeah 125k is nothing for a Honda / Toyota. I bet you can get a replacement catalytic converter installed for half that. Probably last you 10-15 more years. Buying another car is like throwing away a half full tube of toothpaste.

EDIT: Btw, we rent home depot truck for $20 (for an hour) when we need a truck. It's a really good deal. Say we do this 4 or 5 times per year.. that's under $100.
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EightBall
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by EightBall »

OP here. Thanks again for all the replies. Many suggested I needed to invest first in finding out where I stand with my current vehicle. So that's where I started.

I was able to find a friend to recommend an independent shop. Got my car diagnosed for $180, which sounds like it may be a little high, but I'm in a HCOL area. At the time of the diagnosis, the check engine light was off and I asked if the car would pass inspection. I was told it would and had it completed on the spot. So that resolves my inspection issue for a year.

The mechanic did turn up two (minor, I think) problems. A "valve cover" that is leaking a little bit of oil. And a problem with a wheel that is likely caused by a bad sensor. They believe this is what is causing the dashboard lights like ABS to come on. Estimate for each repair is in the neighborhood of $300. Otherwise, the car checks out good. No mention of any current issue with the catalytic converter. I was also told the system has no memory of the check engine light having been on, but that I could bring the car back in when the light come on to have it checked out.

I will get the two problems above fixed. For a total of under $1000, everything should be in good shape again and my inspection is settled. I will also probably get new tires before the winter sets in. Nevertheless, this is obviously a big savings vs a new car. And a big headache avoided having to shop for one. Appreciate the collective wisdom. Thanks!
hotajax
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by hotajax »

TOYOTA TOYOTA TOYOTA. Try to find a 2 or 3 year old and jump on it. We've had 5 of them. Very easy on the pocketbook. I currently have a Toyota pickup truck with 323,000 miles, and no sign of it gasping for air. It just keeps rolling. Insurance isn't brutal, either.
tibbitts
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by tibbitts »

hotajax wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:37 pm TOYOTA TOYOTA TOYOTA. Try to find a 2 or 3 year old and jump on it. We've had 5 of them. Very easy on the pocketbook. I currently have a Toyota pickup truck with 323,000 miles, and no sign of it gasping for air. It just keeps rolling. Insurance isn't brutal, either.
I don't think it makes any sense to buy a 2 or 3 year old Toyota, unless you actually need one immediately vs. waiting for one.
abner kravitz
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by abner kravitz »

tibbitts wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:51 pm
hotajax wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:37 pm TOYOTA TOYOTA TOYOTA. Try to find a 2 or 3 year old and jump on it. We've had 5 of them. Very easy on the pocketbook. I currently have a Toyota pickup truck with 323,000 miles, and no sign of it gasping for air. It just keeps rolling. Insurance isn't brutal, either.
I don't think it makes any sense to buy a 2 or 3 year old Toyota, unless you actually need one immediately vs. waiting for one.
+1. Two year old Toyotas are priced as high as new in my area right now, for the hard-to-get ones anyway.
nhs76
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by nhs76 »

Different make and model, but also a reliable, kinda low miles, older car like yours. It's thrown the catalytic converter code a couple of times now, and we've done the drive-around and passed the test deal twice already. Personally I would keep the 125K car, even if you have to do repairs -- but you might not.
hotajax
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by hotajax »

@abner kravitz Two year old Toyotas at the same price as new? You're not thinking too clearly. Ever hear of "market adjustment" expenses that get tacked on below the sticker?
tibbitts
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by tibbitts »

hotajax wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 2:33 pm @abner kravitz Two year old Toyotas at the same price as new? You're not thinking too clearly. Ever hear of "market adjustment" expenses that get tacked on below the sticker?
It's been that way - not worthwhile buying lightly used - with at least Toyota and Honda for a long time. That doesn't mean that someone somewhere won't find a bargain; it just means it's not a consistently worthwhile strategy. And now there's an additional premium on pre-owned popular models for their availability, for people who don't want to wait. Similarly, multiple times pre-Covid I was able to buy 6mo - 1yr old domestic cars in the 8-12kmi range at a very worthwhile discount to new, but for the most part that's not happening now either.
Valuethinker
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by Valuethinker »

abner kravitz wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 2:04 pm
tibbitts wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:51 pm
hotajax wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:37 pm TOYOTA TOYOTA TOYOTA. Try to find a 2 or 3 year old and jump on it. We've had 5 of them. Very easy on the pocketbook. I currently have a Toyota pickup truck with 323,000 miles, and no sign of it gasping for air. It just keeps rolling. Insurance isn't brutal, either.
I don't think it makes any sense to buy a 2 or 3 year old Toyota, unless you actually need one immediately vs. waiting for one.
+1. Two year old Toyotas are priced as high as new in my area right now, for the hard-to-get ones anyway.
My aunt died with a c 18m old RAV4.

The dealer told my cousin he could sell it for more than a new one (because the waiting list for a new one is so long). If you want a new one, you keep calling dealers until you find one, and you are ready to buy it there and then. Any dealer with loyalty to customers has pre orders 1, 2 years out.
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by abner kravitz »

hotajax wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 2:33 pm @abner kravitz Two year old Toyotas at the same price as new? You're not thinking too clearly. Ever hear of "market adjustment" expenses that get tacked on below the sticker?
A lot of dealers sell at MSRP. I just bought a RAV4 Hybrid at MSRP. The used RAV4s were the same price or a tad higher, but you didn't have to wait. These are facts, no thinking really needed.
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ram
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by ram »

Looks like you want a SUV. You want new and reliable and you are not a "car person" . You are an ideal candidate for a Japanese vehicle.

For about 50 K: Lexus RX 350 or one of the smaller Lexus SUVs.

For about 30 K : SUVs from Toyota (RAV), Honda( CRV) or Subaru (Forrester). ( Sedans from these same companies will be somewhat cheaper).
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hotajax
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Re: What Car To Get?

Post by hotajax »

@abner kravitz. It sounds to me like you live in an area with dealers who aren't out to fleece you. But I would bet that most people who are looking at NEW these days are not seeing what you were able to settle for.
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