Choosing colleges
Choosing colleges
My son gets admissions from U. Minnesota (Twin Cities), SUNY Stony Brook and Arizona State, all in Computer Science.
Cost aside, which one is the best to attend?
Cost aside, which one is the best to attend?
Re: Choosing colleges
If money is not an issue, he should attend the one HE wants to attend.
Re: Choosing colleges
The worst part of the heat here in AZ is not during the school year, except the first month or so of fall semester.
Of course I can't recommend ASU as my alma mater is 100 miles south. It's a little cooler in Tucson as well.
Of course I can't recommend ASU as my alma mater is 100 miles south. It's a little cooler in Tucson as well.
"Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out." ― John Wooden
Re: Choosing colleges
delete
Last edited by chinchin on Sun Mar 19, 2023 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
not financial advice
Re: Choosing colleges
Probably Minnesota, there’s no guarantee he might not want to do something other than computer science. Arizona State has a strong “party school” reputation. SUNY Stony Brook is comparable to Minnesota. Between those two I’d choose the preference geography.
Re: Choosing colleges
Probably Minnesota, there’s no guarantee he might not want to do something other than computer science. Arizona State has a strong “party school” reputation. SUNY Stony Brook is comparable to Minnesota. Between those two I’d choose the preference geography.
Re: Choosing colleges
Of the three, my vote would be for UMn. Higher ranked CS program.
Re: Choosing colleges
+1.
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Re: Choosing colleges
Thanks to all for the advices.
Now coming back to costs, they are UMN 55, SUNY 48, ASU 52-15(ss)=37
Now coming back to costs, they are UMN 55, SUNY 48, ASU 52-15(ss)=37
Re: Choosing colleges
Was he admitted to Barrett honors college at ASU? That could be a good option if so.
Otherwise I’d just choose the one he likes the best based on interests, location, fit. Minnesota has a good reputation in CS but the other two are fine too.
Otherwise I’d just choose the one he likes the best based on interests, location, fit. Minnesota has a good reputation in CS but the other two are fine too.
Re: Choosing colleges
We did not know and passed the deadline for Barrett. We will try to get in, though no guarantee.
Re: Choosing colleges
When I was helping my son through the college selection process one quote really stuck with me.
"Selecting a college is not about selecting the best college. It is about selecting the college that is the best fit for your kid."
I am not familiar with those colleges but assuming that they all have good programs then whichever is the best fit for your kids personality is likely the best choice.
With a CS degree it would also be good to also consider which college would likely have the best internships. With many large tech companies having layoffs and hiring freezes I would suspect that getting good internships will also be a lot more difficult.
"Selecting a college is not about selecting the best college. It is about selecting the college that is the best fit for your kid."
I am not familiar with those colleges but assuming that they all have good programs then whichever is the best fit for your kids personality is likely the best choice.
With a CS degree it would also be good to also consider which college would likely have the best internships. With many large tech companies having layoffs and hiring freezes I would suspect that getting good internships will also be a lot more difficult.
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Re: Choosing colleges
Has your son every been through a Minnesota winter? Going from memory (30 years ago) one of the features that the University of Minnesota brochures advertised was their extensive tunnel system so that one could avoid the weather during winter.
SUNY looks to have easy access to New York City (and thus to Manhattan). For some folks this won't matter. For others this is a huge plus.
ASU is, well, warmer than either of the first two.
Which one fits your child best?
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Re: Choosing colleges
He is still in high school. The current environment may not be relevant to him.Watty wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 4:49 pm When I was helping my son through the college selection process one quote really stuck with me.
"Selecting a college is not about selecting the best college. It is about selecting the college that is the best fit for your kid."
I am not familiar with those colleges but assuming that they all have good programs then whichever is the best fit for your kids personality is likely the best choice.
With a CS degree it would also be good to also consider which college would likely have the best internships. With many large tech companies having layoffs and hiring freezes I would suspect that getting good internships will also be a lot more difficult.
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Re: Choosing colleges
ASU for weather and umm, well, parties.
Re: Choosing colleges
Be sure to Google "ASU graduation rate" when considering the parties.
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Re: Choosing colleges
Re: Choosing colleges
My recollection is thats a fairly typical 6 year graduation rate for US universities.Journeyman510 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:05 pmOuch. 67%
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=40
So why is this so low? I don’t know. One school of thought is that lots of kids don’t finish because school is too expensive. I.e. they run out of money. So if that’s a concern for anybody, they should really focus on value.
And if you have infinite money, you really don’t need to worry about graduation rates, because if your kid puts in the work, they will graduate.
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Re: Choosing colleges
UMn is 80%Normchad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:09 pmMy recollection is thats a fairly typical 6 year graduation rate for US universities.Journeyman510 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:05 pmOuch. 67%
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=40
So why is this so low? I don’t know. One school of thought is that lots of kids don’t finish because school is too expensive. I.e. they run out of money. So if that’s a concern for anybody, they should really focus on value.
And if you have infinite money, you really don’t need to worry about graduation rates, because if your kid puts in the work, they will graduate.
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Re: Choosing colleges
Another school of thought is that the cohort of students at different schools reflect students who may be more or less serious about their studies.Normchad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:09 pmMy recollection is thats a fairly typical 6 year graduation rate for US universities.Journeyman510 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:05 pmOuch. 67%
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=40
So why is this so low? I don’t know. One school of thought is that lots of kids don’t finish because school is too expensive. I.e. they run out of money. So if that’s a concern for anybody, they should really focus on value.
And if you have infinite money, you really don’t need to worry about graduation rates, because if your kid puts in the work, they will graduate.
ASU has a reputation for being a party school and in my experience that reputation is well deserved.
If it were about "value" as you speculate then there would be a strong inverse correlation between cost and graduation rate. But Stanford, a very expensive school in a very expensive area, has a 95% graduation rate.
Re: Choosing colleges
Thanks for the advice. Hopefully the current difficulty in high tech will be gone when he graduates.Watty wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 4:49 pm When I was helping my son through the college selection process one quote really stuck with me.
"Selecting a college is not about selecting the best college. It is about selecting the college that is the best fit for your kid."
I am not familiar with those colleges but assuming that they all have good programs then whichever is the best fit for your kids personality is likely the best choice.
With a CS degree it would also be good to also consider which college would likely have the best internships. With many large tech companies having layoffs and hiring freezes I would suspect that getting good internships will also be a lot more difficult.
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Re: Choosing colleges
Maybe also being in one of the biggest metro areas in the US? People come and go without finishing.Normchad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:09 pmMy recollection is thats a fairly typical 6 year graduation rate for US universities.Journeyman510 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:05 pmOuch. 67%
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=40
So why is this so low? I don’t know. One school of thought is that lots of kids don’t finish because school is too expensive. I.e. they run out of money. So if that’s a concern for anybody, they should really focus on value.
And if you have infinite money, you really don’t need to worry about graduation rates, because if your kid puts in the work, they will graduate.
Re: Choosing colleges
How do I find out which college would likely to have the best interships?Watty wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 4:49 pm When I was helping my son through the college selection process one quote really stuck with me.
"Selecting a college is not about selecting the best college. It is about selecting the college that is the best fit for your kid."
I am not familiar with those colleges but assuming that they all have good programs then whichever is the best fit for your kids personality is likely the best choice.
With a CS degree it would also be good to also consider which college would likely have the best internships. With many large tech companies having layoffs and hiring freezes I would suspect that getting good internships will also be a lot more difficult.
Re: Choosing colleges
I feel cold is better tolerated than hot weather.MarkRoulo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:10 pmHas your son every been through a Minnesota winter? Going from memory (30 years ago) one of the features that the University of Minnesota brochures advertised was their extensive tunnel system so that one could avoid the weather during winter.
SUNY looks to have easy access to New York City (and thus to Manhattan). For some folks this won't matter. For others this is a huge plus.
ASU is, well, warmer than either of the first two.
Which one fits your child best?
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Re: Choosing colleges
The data doesn't support that assertion. The schools with the highest graduation rates tend to be the best schools most of which have very high price tags.runner3081 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:33 pmMaybe also being in one of the biggest metro areas in the US? People come and go without finishing.Normchad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:09 pmMy recollection is thats a fairly typical 6 year graduation rate for US universities.Journeyman510 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:05 pmOuch. 67%
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=40
So why is this so low? I don’t know. One school of thought is that lots of kids don’t finish because school is too expensive. I.e. they run out of money. So if that’s a concern for anybody, they should really focus on value.
And if you have infinite money, you really don’t need to worry about graduation rates, because if your kid puts in the work, they will graduate.
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ra ... -grad-rate
Re: Choosing colleges
I would try calling up the Computer Science departments and asking if they have any department level statistics on internships, percent of graduating students with job offers, and things like graduation rates for just the CS department. They likely have a sheet with lots of statistics if it is not on their web site.
I have an ancient CS degree and at the college I was at back then a lot of CS freshman decided it was not right for them and changed majors. If it is still that way then something like a low CS retention rate(percent of returning students) with a grain of salt since some if the CS majors may have changed majors voluntarily and could be doing well now in some other major.
Re: Choosing colleges
Yes, that's right. I attended another big ten school. Only 60-70% stick with CIS (which is how CS was called then) to the end.Watty wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:53 pmI would try calling up the Computer Science departments and asking if they have any department level statistics on internships, percent of graduating students with job offers, and things like graduation rates for just the CS department. They likely have a sheet with lots of statistics if it is not on their web site.
I have an ancient CS degree and at the college I was at back then a lot of CS freshman decided it was not right for them and changed majors. If it is still that way then something like a low CS retention rate(percent of returning students) with a grain of salt since some if the CS majors may have changed majors voluntarily and could be doing well now in some other major.
Re: Choosing colleges
All three of those are like comparing apples and oranges....so different than each other. Public school, harsh winter; public school, hot, hot in the spring, summer (if one wanted to stick around), and private college (probably expensive) that could possibly give your son enough money to get down to public school prices, but the weather isn't quite as harsh as Minnesota! Plus, they are in the far reaches of the country, all! And are the public schools all out of state? Does he have some other colleges with moderate weather he could consider? And as someone said, if he changes his mind, it would be nice if he liked the school/area /winters/summers enough to stay there and just switch majors rather than moving.
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Re: Choosing colleges
Wenonah wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:46 pm All three of those are like comparing apples and oranges....so different than each other. Public school, harsh winter; public school, hot, hot in the spring, summer (if one wanted to stick around), and private college (probably expensive) that could possibly give your son enough money to get down to public school prices, but the weather isn't quite as harsh as Minnesota! Plus, they are in the far reaches of the country, all! And are the public schools all out of state? Does he have some other colleges with moderate weather he could consider? And as someone said, if he changes his mind, it would be nice if he liked the school/area /winters/summers enough to stay there and just switch majors rather than moving.
They are all public schools.
Re: Choosing colleges
Stony Brook is well over an hour from NYC. It is a commuter school with an ugly campus and no school spirit. (Got my graduate degree there. Not unhappy I went, but would not go as an undergrad.)MarkRoulo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:10 pmHas your son every been through a Minnesota winter? Going from memory (30 years ago) one of the features that the University of Minnesota brochures advertised was their extensive tunnel system so that one could avoid the weather during winter.
SUNY looks to have easy access to New York City (and thus to Manhattan). For some folks this won't matter. For others this is a huge plus.
ASU is, well, warmer than either of the first two.
Which one fits your child best?
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Re: Choosing colleges
Minnesota. The job market is super strong with lots of internship opportunities at large companies in whichever major he ultimately pursues. Strong reputation across the country in many programs. Nice campus in a thriving metro area.
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Re: Choosing colleges
This has my vote.Glockenspiel wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:47 am Minnesota. The job market is super strong with lots of internship opportunities at large companies in whichever major he ultimately pursues. Strong reputation across the country in many programs. Nice campus in a thriving metro area.
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Re: Choosing colleges
As a whole, the Twin Cities metro has more Fortune 500 companies per capita than almost every other area in the country. These companies hire interns every single summer and internships are an easy in to a job after graduation.t24b350 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:34 pmHow do I find out which college would likely to have the best interships?Watty wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 4:49 pm When I was helping my son through the college selection process one quote really stuck with me.
"Selecting a college is not about selecting the best college. It is about selecting the college that is the best fit for your kid."
I am not familiar with those colleges but assuming that they all have good programs then whichever is the best fit for your kids personality is likely the best choice.
With a CS degree it would also be good to also consider which college would likely have the best internships. With many large tech companies having layoffs and hiring freezes I would suspect that getting good internships will also be a lot more difficult.
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Re: Choosing colleges
OP kid intends to major in cs. So those the relevant internships in this case.Glockenspiel wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:50 amAs a whole, the Twin Cities metro has more Fortune 500 companies per capita than almost every other area in the country. These companies hire interns every single summer and internships are an easy in to a job after graduation.t24b350 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:34 pmHow do I find out which college would likely to have the best interships?Watty wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 4:49 pm When I was helping my son through the college selection process one quote really stuck with me.
"Selecting a college is not about selecting the best college. It is about selecting the college that is the best fit for your kid."
I am not familiar with those colleges but assuming that they all have good programs then whichever is the best fit for your kids personality is likely the best choice.
With a CS degree it would also be good to also consider which college would likely have the best internships. With many large tech companies having layoffs and hiring freezes I would suspect that getting good internships will also be a lot more difficult.
Re: Choosing colleges
If I was 18 I’d want to go to ASU hands down. If you don’t want them to go there I’d recommend not visiting, because I’m gonna guess if they visit all three they’d choose ASU in a heartbeat (just based on probabilities)
“Conventional Treasury rates are risk free only in the sense that they guarantee nominal principal. But their real rate of return is uncertain until after the fact.” -Risk Less and Prosper
Re: Choosing colleges
Except it won’t really be hot during the school year. It’ll be lovely and sunnyt24b350 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:40 pmI feel cold is better tolerated than hot weather.MarkRoulo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:10 pmHas your son every been through a Minnesota winter? Going from memory (30 years ago) one of the features that the University of Minnesota brochures advertised was their extensive tunnel system so that one could avoid the weather during winter.
SUNY looks to have easy access to New York City (and thus to Manhattan). For some folks this won't matter. For others this is a huge plus.
ASU is, well, warmer than either of the first two.
Which one fits your child best?
“Conventional Treasury rates are risk free only in the sense that they guarantee nominal principal. But their real rate of return is uncertain until after the fact.” -Risk Less and Prosper
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Re: Choosing colleges
This is important. I had similar experiences with a huge impersonal university programme in undergrad, a highly ranked CS programme but one which I did not fit into well - however the university was downtown.BogBod wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:08 amStony Brook is well over an hour from NYC. It is a commuter school with an ugly campus and no school spirit. (Got my graduate degree there. Not unhappy I went, but would not go as an undergrad.)MarkRoulo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:10 pmHas your son every been through a Minnesota winter? Going from memory (30 years ago) one of the features that the University of Minnesota brochures advertised was their extensive tunnel system so that one could avoid the weather during winter.
SUNY looks to have easy access to New York City (and thus to Manhattan). For some folks this won't matter. For others this is a huge plus.
ASU is, well, warmer than either of the first two.
Which one fits your child best?
Stoney Brook I can think of only one thing. The math department is exceptional. Because a former professor was Jim Simons, who went on to create the Renaissance hedge fund - arguably the world's most successful. Simons has made sure that Stoney Brook has a leading math department - as I understand it.
I do not know how that fits with the CS Department.
I would opt for Minnesota, despite the harsh climate:
- higher ranked programme
- good city
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Re: Choosing colleges
If ASU is a "party school" then you need to have a grown up discussion with him about his ability to work in such an environment.
CS is a hard major. The best jobs are ferociously competitive. I graduated during a recession and wound up with a job (maintaining programs at an insurer) that I hated. It took me a long time to recover from that.
You have to be able to be focused, organised and work hard to get a CS degree. And given this downturn is, like 2000-03, likely to last a while, you need to have grades at least in the upper half of your class. CS will have some very smart kids, with a lot of experience of programming.
Will your son join a fraternity?
CS he will find "his tribe" quite likely - if he is the sort of high schooler I was (socially not very good, hard working, intelligent). CS majors tend to be the nerdiest of non-engineering undergrads. But they might spend the year playing Dungeons & Dragons. Or perhaps he has a sport that he is keen on?
Re Stoney Brook, other than the math department (and university level maths is a cut above anything he will have experienced in terms of difficulty), the comment above that it is a commuter school without much campus spirit would really put me off.
Re: Choosing colleges
I am partial to UMn. Although, I agree that the college with the best internship would get my vote.
Ultimately the school isn’t likely to matter as much as long as the student graduates with their CS degree. But, to get their degree in a difficult major, the student has to understand that it’s going to be hard. They are going to have be resilient and they likely won’t get an “A” in every course and that there are just some classes that you have to “get through”.
Both my kids recently got their engineering degrees and are employed. Many of their (just as smart and hardworking) friends didn’t make it through engineering or CS. Mostly because they found that other major courses were easier to them and they were better at them. My kids knew early on (my wife and I were both engineers) that struggling was going to happen at times and to expect it.
Ultimately the school isn’t likely to matter as much as long as the student graduates with their CS degree. But, to get their degree in a difficult major, the student has to understand that it’s going to be hard. They are going to have be resilient and they likely won’t get an “A” in every course and that there are just some classes that you have to “get through”.
Both my kids recently got their engineering degrees and are employed. Many of their (just as smart and hardworking) friends didn’t make it through engineering or CS. Mostly because they found that other major courses were easier to them and they were better at them. My kids knew early on (my wife and I were both engineers) that struggling was going to happen at times and to expect it.
Re: Choosing colleges
IMO these are regional schools. Where does he intend to live after graduating? If he wants to be in the northeast he should consider SUNY, if he wants to be in the Midwest he should consider UMN, if he wants to be on the west coast he should consider ASU.
Re: Choosing colleges
This. Most companies recruit regionally. People often fall in love in college and opt to live in the region of their true love.
Re: Choosing colleges
My advice would be let them decide.
Retired 2019. So far, so good. I want to wake up every morning. But I want to die in my sleep. Just another conundrum. I think the solution might be afternoon naps ;)
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Re: Choosing colleges
+1Glockenspiel wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:47 am Minnesota. The job market is super strong with lots of internship opportunities at large companies in whichever major he ultimately pursues. Strong reputation across the country in many programs. Nice campus in a thriving metro area.
UMN has had the best Chemical Engineering program for 25+ years in the nation (and probably the world).
Re: Choosing colleges
Commuter college is useful information! My sister went to one without realizing that it was something to consider and transferred after her first year.BogBod wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:08 amStony Brook is well over an hour from NYC. It is a commuter school with an ugly campus and no school spirit. (Got my graduate degree there. Not unhappy I went, but would not go as an undergrad.)MarkRoulo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:10 pmHas your son every been through a Minnesota winter? Going from memory (30 years ago) one of the features that the University of Minnesota brochures advertised was their extensive tunnel system so that one could avoid the weather during winter.
SUNY looks to have easy access to New York City (and thus to Manhattan). For some folks this won't matter. For others this is a huge plus.
ASU is, well, warmer than either of the first two.
Which one fits your child best?
Re: Choosing colleges
I could not agree more - someone considering going here should really visit for a few days and nights to see what the overall life is like.BogBod wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:08 amStony Brook is well over an hour from NYC. It is a commuter school with an ugly campus and no school spirit. (Got my graduate degree there. Not unhappy I went, but would not go as an undergrad.)MarkRoulo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:10 pmHas your son every been through a Minnesota winter? Going from memory (30 years ago) one of the features that the University of Minnesota brochures advertised was their extensive tunnel system so that one could avoid the weather during winter.
SUNY looks to have easy access to New York City (and thus to Manhattan). For some folks this won't matter. For others this is a huge plus.
ASU is, well, warmer than either of the first two.
Which one fits your child best?