New Car Advice - midsize SUV or Tesla Model 3? Or hold off?

[MtnTravel]

We are a two vehicle household, and 99% of my driving is within the city (and my commute isn't terribly long). We are looking to replace a 7 year old mid-size SUV.

Initially I was contemplating full electric (looking at Volvo XC40 or C40), but the prices of EVs are shocking these days. My last car was $27k cash and dealers were throwing around 0% financing offers like candy. Now you can barely find a new SUV for less than 40k, if you're lucky and interest rates are 5%+ (we plan to pay cash).

I don't want a full size SUV since we live in the city, and I plan to buy CPO. For gas cars, we are looking at the XC40, XC60, or V60. I really like Volvo safety and comfort, but the more I read about the newer models, the more I am concerned about reliability. Lots of people report having issues with the electronics and brakes. Any others we should be looking at? I'd really like something a step up from Mazda/Subaru/Toyota, but not Lexus (way too ugly...).

For EVs, I've really narrowed it down to the Tesla Model 3. They seem to hold their value, have good reliability, and people love them. But, even used Model 3s are upwards of 40k. Is a Model 3 with ~ 30k miles still considered in good shape? I wouldn't pay 40k for a CPO gas car with 30k miles on it, but I'm wondering if EVs change that equation?

In terms of pricing, it seems like the used/CPO market has stabilized, but for those in the market for a new car, do you think it's better to wait it out?

[harikaried]

even used Model 3s are upwards of 40k

Do you qualify for various federal and local incentives for new electric vehicles? For example, a married couple filing jointly with under $300k AGI in New Jersey can get a Model 3 with 272 miles range for $43,490 - $7,500 federal - $4,000 state = $31,990. Then you can adjust that based on your current driving/gas/ICE maintenance expenses.

https://www.tesla.com/support/incentives#New-Jersey

[pizzy]

I can't find a fault in our 2022 Honda CRV EX

[jm1495]

I have a 2018 model 3 with 80k miles on it. I've had very little maintenance issues. A headlight, rfid reader is about it, even for an "early build". The biggest expense I've had is changing the tires. So a 30k Tesla is very much still in "good shape"

[bwalling]

Not sure how we can answer this for you. An ICE SUV or an EV sedan are not really the same thing. Only you can decide which you prefer.

I have a Model 3, and am looking to move to an ICE SUV or truck, because I spend a lot of time off road, and the Tesla is unable to do that. I'd prefer to stay EV, but EV off road is a long waiting list plus a really high price right now.

[MtnTravel]

even used Model 3s are upwards of 40k

Do you qualify for various federal and local incentives for new electric vehicles? For example, a married couple filing jointly with under $300k AGI in New Jersey can get a Model 3 with 272 miles range for $43,490 - $7,500 federal - $4,000 state = $31,990. Then you can adjust that based on your current driving/gas/ICE maintenance expenses.

https://www.tesla.com/support/incentives#New-Jersey

No we’re over the AGI limits so we wouldn’t qualify. The used prices of the model 3 seem pretty high compared to new. We definitely want long range and AWD.

[CletusCaddy]

even used Model 3s are upwards of 40k

Do you qualify for various federal and local incentives for new electric vehicles? For example, a married couple filing jointly with under $300k AGI in New Jersey can get a Model 3 with 272 miles range for $43,490 - $7,500 federal - $4,000 state = $31,990. Then you can adjust that based on your current driving/gas/ICE maintenance expenses.

https://www.tesla.com/support/incentives#New-Jersey

No we’re over the AGI limits so we wouldn’t qualify. The used prices of the model 3 seem pretty high compared to new. We definitely want long range and AWD.

Many manufacturers are passing through the $7500 tax credit for leases, which you benefit from regardless of your income. You can then buy out the lease immediately (with some fees) and own the car with the discount. It’s a nice loophole around the tax credit income rules.

For example, you can get the VW ID4 AWD Pro S with MSRP of $50k. You sign the lease with zero money down, then immediately buy it out for:

$50k MSRP -
$7.5k lease discount +
$1.1k lease acquisition and disposition fees +
Sales taxes +
Potentially a few days of rent charge

If you are ok with RWD you can find models with MSRP of $43k

Volvo is doing the same thing with the C40 and XC40 Recharge but some dealers are even willing to discount MSRP by a few grand, before the tax credit.

[quantAndHold]

A midsize SUV and an EV sedan are very different vehicles. Maybe you should think about what you’ll use the vehicle for, and go from there. I mean, if you’re just using it to commute and get groceries, a Chevy Bolt would work just fine, and be a lot easier to park than a SUV. But when you’re going out, it doesn’t impress the parking valet very much.

[snackdog]

My 2010 Lexus just hit 150k and drives like a dream. What is the issue with your vehicle?

[mhalley]

Clark Howard still recommends waiting till ‘24 to buy an ev, despite the recent drop in Tesla price. Several of the car YouTubers I follow also recommend waiting to buy an ice car.

[billaster]

Unless you really need to have a replacement car, now is not the time to buy one. Demand still exceeds supply for both new and used cars.

The way you fight inflation is by not buying stuff you don't really need right now.

As Smokey the Bear says "Only you can prevent inflation fires."

[harikaried]

We definitely want long range and AWD

That's exactly what we have although odd Tesla doesn't offer it new right now. Were you checking their Used listings? It seems like Tesla often adds "Enhanced Autopilot" (+$6k new) or "Full Self-Driving Capability" (+$15k new) to bump up the prices, so watch out for that if you're not interested in that software.

This 2019 Model 3 with 35k miles with Basic Autopilot shows up as $36.8k right now: https://www.tesla.com/m3/order/5YJ3E1EB2KF512975

If the extra (EPA) range is desired, it looks like it goes up from 2019's 310miles to mid-2020's 322 miles like this one with 36k miles for $38.8k: https://www.tesla.com/m3/order/5YJ3E1EB1LF618299

[MorgansRun]

If you want your next vehicle to be a good EV, then go Tesla for the supercharging network, if that's important.

If you want your next vehicle to actually be a good car, then anything from Toyota, Honda, Mazda and many others will work. I'm partial to the Mazda CX-5 (i'm on my second one). Go drive them all and see what fits you best.

[Watty]

Now you can barely find a new SUV for less than 40k, if you're lucky......

Look again especially if you would be OK with a smaller SUV.

You might need to wait for a few months for delivery and it would likely not be a hybrid or high trim level but even under $30K should be possible if you look hard and are flexible.

For example look at the Corolla Cross if they are available in your area, the MSRP starts out in the low 20s for a base model. (A totally different car than a Corolla) That is likely too low end for you so it is a bit of an exaggeration but saying that you NEED to pay over $40K for a nice SUV for around town driving is not realistic.

With a wait for delivery you should have lots of nice choices in the low $30K range.

Reading between the lines I suspect that you are trying to talk yourself into thinking that the Tesla is an relatively affordable alternative. It might be a fine car that is worth the money to you but being affordable is not one of its strengths.

[Arboecars]

Hold off, for now.
Consider the purchase of a CPO luxury vehicle.

[kleiner]

if you must buy an EV in the short term, consider a Chevy Bolt EUV. However, I would strongly suggest waiting until next year if you want an EV.

[SneakyBooger]

For gas cars, we are looking at the XC40, XC60, or V60. I really like Volvo safety and comfort, but the more I read about the newer models, the more I am concerned about reliability. Lots of people report having issues with the electronics and brakes.

I would like to add my anecdotal experience with our 2015 XC60 that we bought for our daughter in 2014. Late last year it developed excessive oil consumption. Volvo recently confirmed our XC60 has an oil consumption problem. The solution is either replace the rings for $8000 or the engine for $20,000. Volvo won't know which until additional investigation occurs. Kelly Blue Book states the value of our XC60 to be $14000 - $16000.

I have no idea how often this occurs, but perhaps it will give you something to think about. Our daughter loved that car otherwise.

[Journeyman510]

I've recently rented a Tesla model 3. It drove ok and the seats were comfortable. However, the interior was not nice. It's like a Honda civic in terms of the interior.

[anoop]

I wanted to buy a new car to replace my now 4.5 year old RDX. I can’t seem to find the car I want because of tight supply (nx 350h luxury/white/light interior) so I have been waiting since August. The RDX is decent but mpg has been low at around 21-22 mpg mostly suburban driving. I’m not ready to make the leap to full electric yet. There will be many new choices in the next 2-3 years. I don’t think prices are going anywhere but up, so if you want something it’s best to get it now.

[bwalling]

Right now, I'd buy a used Model 3. The prices on them have plummeted between Elon's antics, the price drops, the tax credits, and the sheer volume of Model 3's that have been sold in the last few years.

It's a far better car that most current EV alternatives, and the used prices have massively dropped.

[jharkin]

I’d reiterate the question - why an SUV? If you are cross shopping small sedans and big SUVs you need to ask yourself if you actually need the carrying capacity and AWD of an SUV or if you just want what’s trendy.

If the answer is you do and you prefer EV then look at thinks like the Model Y, Audi E-Tron, etc. lots of electric SUVs coming now.

Otherwise look at EV sedans. Model 3 isn’t the only option, it has the best charging network but as noted beyond that advantage Teslas are kinda blah.,,,

[StewedCarrot]

I just bought this week. My quick comments:

• The used market is still nuts. Most of the models I looked at were more expensive on the back half of their life (per mile) than buying new. I wouldn’t bother with used right now.

• In the EV world, Tesla and Volkswagen seem to have the best supply. (Although I didn’t shop luxury, or Hyundai or Kia because of the tax incentive situation.) Chevy Bolts are an amazing value if the meet your needs.

• The email bidding process works again. I contacted a dozen dealers to get competitive pricing, ~3 were really engaged. Test driving at the dealer seemed to help convince them I was a serious lead.

Happy shopping OP!

[CletusCaddy]

I just bought this week. My quick comments:

• The used market is still nuts. Most of the models I looked at were more expensive on the back half of their life (per mile) than buying new. I wouldn’t bother with used right now.

• In the EV world, Tesla and Volkswagen seem to have the best supply. (Although I didn’t shop luxury, or Hyundai or Kia because of the tax incentive situation.) Chevy Bolts are an amazing value if the meet your needs.

• The email bidding process works again. I contacted a dozen dealers to get competitive pricing, ~3 were really engaged. Test driving at the dealer seemed to help convince them I was a serious lead.

Happy shopping OP!

What did you end up buying

[stoptothink]

Chevy Bolts are an amazing value if the meet your needs.[/list]

I keep seeing people say that (with incentives, rebates, and tax credit) that you can get a bolt for $14k-18k right now. I just did a search for bolts (new) for sale within 250-miles of me and there were two, the cheaper being a 1LT (I believe this is the base model) listed for $30,340. If I expand to 500 miles, there are 8, with a single one listed cheaper ($28,820...but call for details). I'd sell our VW jetta (which we bought for $14K OTD new in 2016) now if we could get a bolt as our primary commuter for even $20k, but I am not seeing it.

[StewedCarrot]

I just bought this week. My quick comments:

• The used market is still nuts. Most of the models I looked at were more expensive on the back half of their life (per mile) than buying new. I wouldn’t bother with used right now.

• In the EV world, Tesla and Volkswagen seem to have the best supply. (Although I didn’t shop luxury, or Hyundai or Kia because of the tax incentive situation.) Chevy Bolts are an amazing value if the meet your needs.

• The email bidding process works again. I contacted a dozen dealers to get competitive pricing, ~3 were really engaged. Test driving at the dealer seemed to help convince them I was a serious lead.

Happy shopping OP!

What did you end up buying

I bought a Volkswagen ID4. It's my first new car. I'm really enjoying it!

[StewedCarrot]

Chevy Bolts are an amazing value if the meet your needs.[/list]

I keep seeing people say that (with incentives, rebates, and tax credit) that you can get a bolt for $14k-18k right now. I just did a search for bolts (new) for sale within 250-miles of me and there were two, the cheaper being a 1LT (I believe this is the base model) listed for $30,340. If I expand to 500 miles, there are 8, with a single one listed cheaper ($28,820...but call for details). I'd sell our VW jetta (which we bought for $14K OTD new in 2016) now if we could get a bolt as our primary commuter for even $20k, but I am not seeing it.

Yes. They're a great deal. $26.5K. Eligible for the $7,500 tax credit, a $2000+ incentive in California, more in some Air Districts. Californians can see the list at: https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/en

I think you have to talk with the dealers directly. I found that by the time they're on Cars.com they were sold.

[stoptothink]

Chevy Bolts are an amazing value if the meet your needs.[/list]

I keep seeing people say that (with incentives, rebates, and tax credit) that you can get a bolt for $14k-18k right now. I just did a search for bolts (new) for sale within 250-miles of me and there were two, the cheaper being a 1LT (I believe this is the base model) listed for $30,340. If I expand to 500 miles, there are 8, with a single one listed cheaper ($28,820...but call for details). I'd sell our VW jetta (which we bought for $14K OTD new in 2016) now if we could get a bolt as our primary commuter for even $20k, but I am not seeing it.

Yes. They're a great deal. $26.5K. Eligible for the $7,500 tax credit, a $2000+ incentive in California, more in some Air Districts. Californians can see the list at: https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/en

I think you have to talk with the dealers directly. I found that by the time they're on Cars.com they were sold.

Base model MSRP may be $26,500, but is anybody selling them for that? As I noted, within 500 miles of me there are a handful of base model Bolts and only a single one is even listed for <$30k before TTL. Sounds like it may be possible (but very difficult) to get one for $18k (before TTL) in certain parts of California.

[MtnTravel]

I’d reiterate the question - why an SUV? If you are cross shopping small sedans and big SUVs you need to ask yourself if you actually need the carrying capacity and AWD of an SUV or if you just want what’s trendy.

If the answer is you do and you prefer EV then look at thinks like the Model Y, Audi E-Tron, etc. lots of electric SUVs coming now.

Otherwise look at EV sedans. Model 3 isn’t the only option, it has the best charging network but as noted beyond that advantage Teslas are kinda blah.,,,

I've always driven SUVs, so it's just habit. I like the safety and higher seating position. With kids and dogs they are definitely more convenient, but we do have another SUV we can use if we need it.

[Jack FFR1846]

I'm also confused that you talk about a mid sized SUV or a Tesla model 3. Are you looking for size or budget? I think I'd consider vehicles outside of what you've talked about. Perhaps a Subaru Crosstrek hybrid. It's at the top of the luxury heap for Subaru and has the high MPG of a hybrid. The hybrid system is 100% Toyota.

Or if you're considering a car the size of a Model 3, look at a Subaru Impreza. Go in with $30k and walk out with a car and $5k in your pocket still. The Subaru dealer where we bought several of our last new and used Subarus currently has 184 new Subarus on the lot. They have 121 used Subarus.

Like you, I absolutely hate the grill of current Lexus vehicles. I have considered one...an iS350 or 500. I like the interior and the lack of screen driven things that you can't ever get to when concentrating on the road. They're great cars that last forever. Used ones are available. The ES cars are really the discontinued Toyota Avalon and available as AWD or hybrid FWD. This is going to give you more passenger room than many SUVs and most mid sized SUVs with better MPG. Cost per mile for the hybrid is going to best any Tesla. Now, that depends on your gas and electric cost but where I live, outside of Boston, I've done the math and a model 3 RWD costs DOUBLE what a Camry hybrid costs (documented with co-worker's spread sheet) and the Lexus ES hybrid is going to get similar MPG, so cost. For cost, in any case, do the math. Initially, I was surprised with my results that my Subaru Crosstrek manual's actual cost was less per mile than a model 3 and since then my electricity jumped from 32.5 cents a kWh to 42.6 cents per kWh and gas dropped a dollar a gallon making even a new Cadillac CT4 AWD with premium and only 26 mpg on par with a model 3 and on par or cheaper to buy.

[bwalling]

Chevy Bolts are an amazing value if the meet your needs.[/list]

I keep seeing people say that (with incentives, rebates, and tax credit) that you can get a bolt for $14k-18k right now. I just did a search for bolts (new) for sale within 250-miles of me and there were two, the cheaper being a 1LT (I believe this is the base model) listed for $30,340. If I expand to 500 miles, there are 8, with a single one listed cheaper ($28,820...but call for details). I'd sell our VW jetta (which we bought for $14K OTD new in 2016) now if we could get a bolt as our primary commuter for even $20k, but I am not seeing it.

Yes. They're a great deal. $26.5K. Eligible for the $7,500 tax credit, a $2000+ incentive in California, more in some Air Districts. Californians can see the list at: https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/en

I think you have to talk with the dealers directly. I found that by the time they're on Cars.com they were sold.

Base model MSRP may be $26,500, but is anybody selling them for that? As I noted, within 500 miles of me there are a handful of base model Bolts and only a single one is even listed for <$30k before TTL. Sounds like it may be possible (but very difficult) to get one for $18k (before TTL) in certain parts of California.

Yes, around Florida they can be had for that. There were four available at MSRP at the nearby dealer when I was looking at cars for my daughter.