Most Secure Method to use ATM

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jayjayc
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Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by jayjayc »

My bank's ATM allows multiple ways to access my account. Is one method more secure against skimming? The 3 different ways are:
  • insert physical ATM card into slot
  • contactless tap with ATM card
  • contactless tap with Apple/Google wallet
123
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by 123 »

jayjayc wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 12:10 pm ...
  • contactless tap with Apple/Google wallet
I think this would be the most secure because it includes an additional layer of security (provided by Apple/Google) between your card data and the ATM.
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ThereAreNoGurus
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by ThereAreNoGurus »

Contactless pay is more secure. A one time security code is generated so your card number is not transmitted to process the transaction.

You can read more about contactless payments, and the 3 types, briefly discussed here:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-y ... 2020-10-12
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jayjayc
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by jayjayc »

Makes sense that contactless with Apple Pay would be most secure. I assume skimmers need physical access to the magnetic strip and contactless avoids that.
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quantAndHold
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by quantAndHold »

The mag strip is the least secure. Anything else is better.

You can check for a skimmer by grabbing hold of the card slot and trying to yank it out of the machine. But if the machine offers a contactless option (or even a chip reader), do that instead.

If you need to enter a PIN, cover your hand so any cameras that might be around can’t read what you type in.
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by jebmke »

quantAndHold wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:48 pm The mag strip is the least secure. Anything else is better.

You can check for a skimmer by grabbing hold of the card slot and trying to yank it out of the machine. But if the machine offers a contactless option (or even a chip reader), do that instead.

If you need to enter a PIN, cover your hand so any cameras that might be around can’t read what you type in.
Does anyone use the mag strip anymore? Everything around me is chip at least (a lot is now contactless) and this is a pretty small town/rural area. I can't remember the last time I had to swipe a card.
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verbose
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by verbose »

Anything contactless is best because it avoids the mag stripe reader. Some skimmers are undetectable by the user. It doesn't matter if the bank's ATM hardware is actually using the mag stripe or not, if the mag stripe is inserted, and there's a skimmer, the mag stripe can be read.

This article has up-to-date info on skimmers:

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2022/09/say ... -skimmers/
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by jebmke »

verbose wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:34 pm Anything contactless is best because it avoids the mag stripe reader. Some skimmers are undetectable by the user. It doesn't matter if the bank's ATM hardware is actually using the mag stripe or not, if the mag stripe is inserted, and there's a skimmer, the mag stripe can be read.

This article has up-to-date info on skimmers:

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2022/09/say ... -skimmers/
I should check my local machines to see if they are all contactless. My last ATM use was in March, 2020. I still have most of that cash left in my desk.
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jayjayc
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by jayjayc »

verbose wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:34 pm Anything contactless is best because it avoids the mag stripe reader. Some skimmers are undetectable by the user. It doesn't matter if the bank's ATM hardware is actually using the mag stripe or not, if the mag stripe is inserted, and there's a skimmer, the mag stripe can be read.

This article has up-to-date info on skimmers:

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2022/09/say ... -skimmers/
I suspect this skimmer is what was used here. My neighbor inserted her chip card into a BoA ATM at a local branch. Her card got skimmed and the bank taped off this ATM.
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by Chuckles960 »

My debit card has the symbol for contactless, but it does not work with any ATM (insertion works). A poster here claimed that contactless only works with the issuing bank (my issuer has no ATMs that I know of).
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by jdb »

Not sure that I understand the problem. Is this a variant of staying away from using ATM cards that are also debit cards? My ATM card is not a debit card and I use it every week and never had an issue. Had lots of issues in past with credit cards being skimmed. And do not have any debit cards for that reason. But am not aware of anyone whose ATM only card was hacked since the thief would also need to know the ATM code. Plus ATM only cards typically have daily cash withdrawal limits which would also restrain a thief from access to monies in the account.
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by rongos »

Chip cards are secure, chips cannot be copied by thieves, but skimmers can read the mag stripe. The industry should have removed mag stripes from cards.
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by Turbo29 »

jdb wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:10 pm Not sure that I understand the problem. Is this a variant of staying away from using ATM cards that are also debit cards? My ATM card is not a debit card and I use it every week and never had an issue. Had lots of issues in past with credit cards being skimmed. And do not have any debit cards for that reason. But am not aware of anyone whose ATM only card was hacked since the thief would also need to know the ATM code. Plus ATM only cards typically have daily cash withdrawal limits which would also restrain a thief from access to monies in the account.
A camera can be used to capture the PIN code of an ATM only card.
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Eno Deb
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by Eno Deb »

jayjayc wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 12:10 pm My bank's ATM allows multiple ways to access my account. Is one method more secure against skimming? The 3 different ways are:
  • insert physical ATM card into slot
  • contactless tap with ATM card
  • contactless tap with Apple/Google wallet
Out of these Apple Pay is the most secure. It uses virtual (tokenized) card numbers that only work with user authentication (i.e. Touch/Face iD or passcode), plus dynamic security code. Google Wallet may be the similar, but I'm not familiar with the technical details. Next is contactless card, because some also use tokenization and there is no risk that a skimmer inside the card slot can capture the card number.
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by 22twain »

My bank doesn't have a contactless ATM, at least not in my small town in the South.

However, I seldom use physical cash nowadays, so I need to use my debit/ATM card only a few times a year. I normally keep it locked via a setting in my account. When I want to use it, I unlock it shortly beforehand, in my bank's iPhone app, then lock it again shortly afterwards. I never use it as a debit card, so I don't need to unlock it for that.
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Gryphon
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by Gryphon »

jebmke wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:56 pm Does anyone use the mag strip anymore? Everything around me is chip at least (a lot is now contactless) and this is a pretty small town/rural area. I can't remember the last time I had to swipe a card.
If you have to physically insert the card, then there's an opportunity for a skimmer to read the strip even if the ATM it's attached to uses the chip. And you still have to enter your PIN (at least in the US).

As for merchants, I recently had to fall back to swiping the card at one merchant when the chip reader just wouldn't work. And I think there are some mag stripe readers still being used with tablets & phones in portable situations. I wish everyone would move to contactless, but there are still a lot of merchants who don't support that.
Last edited by Gryphon on Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by jebmke »

Gryphon wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:05 am
jebmke wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:56 pm Does anyone use the mag strip anymore? Everything around me is chip at least (a lot is now contactless) and this is a pretty small town/rural area. I can't remember the last time I had to swipe a card.
If you have to physically insert the card, then there's an opportunity for a skimmer to read the strip even if the ATM it's attached to uses the chip. And you still have to enter your PIN (at least in the US).

As for merchants, I recently had to fall back to swiping the card at one merchant when the chip reader just wouldn't work. And I think there are some mag stripe readers still being used with tablets in portable situations. I wish everyone would move to contactless, but there are still a lot of merchants who don't support that.
Good point. I hadn't noticed much. A lot of places here - even small mom & pops have Apple Pay now so I don't use my card that often. If the chip read fails, usually a different card works.

For ATM cards, there really is no reason for them to put a mag stripe on the card. They should be chip or contactless.
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by toddthebod »

I can't believe nobody's mentioned this yet, but you should be using the bank app to keep your ATM card locked except for during the 30 seconds it takes you to use the ATM.

As far as whether to use an intermediary like Google Pay, does anyone know if the liability laws apply in the same way? Like, for example, if your debit card is stolen, you have certain protections spelled out in the Electronic Funds Transfer Act, but if you use Google Pay and that is somehow compromised, do you have the same protections? Or does your bank say, nah, you authorized Google to use the card, take it up with them?
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by dukeblue219 »

jebmke wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:56 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:48 pm The mag strip is the least secure. Anything else is better.

You can check for a skimmer by grabbing hold of the card slot and trying to yank it out of the machine. But if the machine offers a contactless option (or even a chip reader), do that instead.

If you need to enter a PIN, cover your hand so any cameras that might be around can’t read what you type in.
Does anyone use the mag strip anymore? Everything around me is chip at least (a lot is now contactless) and this is a pretty small town/rural area. I can't remember the last time I had to swipe a card.
At least very recently Home Depot did not support any contactless methods, which is absurd. You can still use a chip rather than a true swipe, but virtually everywhere else supports contactless whether the store employees know it or not.
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by JoMoney »

I would probably opt for contactless tapping the card, and only use trusted ATM machines.
Providing your personal information to a third-party (Apple/Google) may provide another layer of encryption at the point of transaction, but it also introduces another layer of vulnerabilities and unnecessary counter-parties storing and transmitting your information, as well as privacy concerns that may or may not be included in the "security" vulnerabilities you're considering.
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by jebmke »

toddthebod wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:02 am I can't believe nobody's mentioned this yet, but you should be using the bank app to keep your ATM card locked except for during the 30 seconds it takes you to use the ATM.

As far as whether to use an intermediary like Google Pay, does anyone know if the liability laws apply in the same way? Like, for example, if your debit card is stolen, you have certain protections spelled out in the Electronic Funds Transfer Act, but if you use Google Pay and that is somehow compromised, do you have the same protections? Or does your bank say, nah, you authorized Google to use the card, take it up with them?
Not sure all banks offer this locking, do they. Mine does but I haven't fired it up -- I probably should since I never use my card.
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by jebmke »

dukeblue219 wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:06 am At least very recently Home Depot did not support any contactless methods, which is absurd.
I don't think Lowes does, which is surprising. Even the little indie wine store my wife uses takes Apple Pay. Most gas pumps I've seen also.
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by Gryphon »

jebmke wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:12 am
dukeblue219 wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:06 am At least very recently Home Depot did not support any contactless methods, which is absurd.
I don't think Lowes does, which is surprising. Even the little indie wine store my wife uses takes Apple Pay. Most gas pumps I've seen also.
Walmart also does not do contactless payments. And I personally have seen few gas pumps that will do contactless payments outside of Costco. Some of the pumps have the hardware for it but it doesn't work when I try it - some even have a sign up saying it doesn't work. Why pay for the equipment if you're not going to use it?
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by jebmke »

Gryphon wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:53 am
jebmke wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:12 am
dukeblue219 wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:06 am At least very recently Home Depot did not support any contactless methods, which is absurd.
I don't think Lowes does, which is surprising. Even the little indie wine store my wife uses takes Apple Pay. Most gas pumps I've seen also.
Walmart also does not do contactless payments. And I personally have seen few gas pumps that will do contactless payments outside of Costco. Some of the pumps have the hardware for it but it doesn't work when I try it - some even have a sign up saying it doesn't work. Why pay for the equipment if you're not going to use it?
The US tends to be behind the ROW in a lot of dimensions -- which is remarkable since it often has the capability but lacks the will to do anything. On the other hand, given that there is no liability for CC transactions for the consumer, it is hard to get too worked up about it.
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by RetiredAL »

jebmke wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:59 am
Gryphon wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:53 am
jebmke wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:12 am
dukeblue219 wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:06 am At least very recently Home Depot did not support any contactless methods, which is absurd.
I don't think Lowes does, which is surprising. Even the little indie wine store my wife uses takes Apple Pay. Most gas pumps I've seen also.
Walmart also does not do contactless payments. And I personally have seen few gas pumps that will do contactless payments outside of Costco. Some of the pumps have the hardware for it but it doesn't work when I try it - some even have a sign up saying it doesn't work. Why pay for the equipment if you're not going to use it?
The US tends to be behind the ROW in a lot of dimensions -- which is remarkable since it often has the capability but lacks the will to do anything. On the other hand, given that there is no liability for CC transactions for the consumer, it is hard to get too worked up about it.
"given that there is no liability for CC transactions for the consumer, it is hard to get too worked up about it."
+1
to jebmke

My experiences have been that card fraud issues have been pretty rare and easy to resolve.
Doctor Rhythm
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by Doctor Rhythm »

Better yet - if you’re afraid of ATM security risks, just minimize their use. I personally don’t worry about ATMs but rarely have need to use one, since I almost never pay with cash and use mobile apps for everything else.
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jayjayc
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Re: Most Secure Method to use ATM

Post by jayjayc »

toddthebod wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:02 am I can't believe nobody's mentioned this yet, but you should be using the bank app to keep your ATM card locked except for during the 30 seconds it takes you to use the ATM.
I was unaware of this feature. I just checked and my bank offers it. Thanks!
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