Water heater replacement, etc

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
JackoC
Posts: 4710
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:14 am

Re: Water heater replacement, etc

Post by JackoC »

Tubes wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:17 am 3 years ago, that price is a rip off.

Today, it is "in range," if maybe a bit near the top since it isn't gas.

If you trust this guy, and you are OK with paying maybe a few hundred premium (at most), go for it. Otherwise you can get a bunch more quotes but you won't find it to be 100% out of range. Your time is also money.
To give a relative comparison over time for different parameters, comparable Bradford White models of 50 gal gas heaters, installed by same plumber, basement no new expansion tank: July '14 $1,100, July '22 $1,700 all in. National CPI would say the $1,100 7/2014 would be ~$1,370 7/2022 (just for context, *not* to debate 'accuracy of CPI', we all know it doesn't apply uniformly, is just an attempt at an overall estimate). Yes, one can in theory buy a similar unit at Lowe's/Depot and DIY install (I think I could if I had to, but besides time and effort I see value in not having to rely on my own plumbing work with gas and hot water, repair a frozen/burst pipe to the garden hose? sure I'll do that myself). I could have gotten 'multiple quotes' and some less established outfit would probably have done the install for less both times. But the 2014 one had a slow leak, I didn't want to fool around. I think it's a pretty apples/apples gauge of the price difference over that period in the NY area.
User avatar
enad
Posts: 1581
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:50 pm

Re: Water heater replacement, etc

Post by enad »

Californiastate wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:01 pm
enad wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:47 pm
terran wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:50 pm Our new to us house needs the water heater replaced. It's in the crawlspace, so it will be need to be a short and fat unit, which makes it a little more expensive. The plumber is quoting $1750 for a 40 gallon electric A.O. smith 6 year warranty unit, expansion tank (required by code), and a stand to get it up off the ground more than the pavers under the current unit. We're kind of in triage mode right now with what we need to do around the place, so I'd rather not do the whole get a bunch of quotes thing if this is the ballpark of what's reasonable?

I asked about a 12 year unit too. The plumber says it's the same tank with an upgraded anode rod he installs and the a longer warranty period from the manufacturer. He said he usually tells people the 6 year unit should last 15-20 years, and he can't say how much more time the 12 year unit gets you. He can get me a quote for that on Monday, but I'm not sure it's worth it? I'd say it's highly unlikely we'll still own this house in 15-20 years.

The home inspector suggested the idea of moving the water heater up out of the crawlspace with the thinking that it might last longer in better conditioned space. The plumber didn't seem to think this would be worth it, but gave me a quote anyway for about $500 more. It would also mean we'd be turning a small walk-in closet in a secondary bedroom into a regular depth closet (only room for a clothing rod) with a door of some kind at the back (which I'd have to buy and install). I'm inclined to go with the professional's opinion on this with the caveat that I'd like to spend as little time in the crawlspace on a regular basis as I can. Is there maintenance I should be doing on a water heater? How much less life am I likely do get out of a water heater if I just ignore it and let it sit down there?

On a related note, I like to turn off the water when we leave the house for really any amount of time overnight or more (I got a quote to add a loop with a shutoff valve in the same closet mentioned above). I think this means I should also turn off the water heater when I shut off the water? Can I just do this from the electric panel, or will I need to go down into the crawlspace to do something with the water heater? That would defeat the purpose of adding a shutoff valve upstairs.

Thanks!
Get the 6-year model and replace the anode with a powered anode that is usually made of titanium but requires AC power for he wall-wart transformer. A powered anode should easily last 20+ years. I think the code is to have the water heater at least 23" above the ground. If your new unit comes with a Flame Vapor (FV) sensor depending on the climate many can have false positives (extreme cold or extreme heat). You can also invest in a water leak sensor that can shut electrical and water supply to the water heater. I use the Corro-Protec powered anode. To see how it works look here

Best Wishes
How much current does the powered anode draw? What is the lifespan of the powered anode?
The transformer has an output of 24Vdc and 15mA and has a 20-year warranty. There are at least 5 models available depending on the type of tank you have.
What Goes Up Must come down -- David Clayton-Thomas (1968), BST
teCh0010
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:20 am

Re: Water heater replacement, etc

Post by teCh0010 »

Harry Livermore wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:19 pm
Chuckles960 wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:58 am
Harry Livermore wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:14 am The price sounds just a little fat (I had been looking at an AO Smith short 40-gal unit for our rental and it lists under $800 retail at Lowes)
Manufacturers make a cheaper version for HD/Lowes/etc., and a supposedly more rugged (and more expensive) version of the same brand sold to professionals.
I have certainly heard that, and won't dispute it.
Also, many tradespeople won't install equipment that they don't supply.
So, as I said, the price seems a bit "fat", but within a reasonable range.
Cheers
The box store tanks generally come off of the same assembly line, the main difference is that they are outfitted with plastic drain valves and cheaper pressure valves to meet the box store price point.
User avatar
enad
Posts: 1581
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:50 pm

Re: Water heater replacement, etc

Post by enad »

JackoC wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:26 pm
Tubes wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:17 am 3 years ago, that price is a rip off.

Today, it is "in range," if maybe a bit near the top since it isn't gas.

If you trust this guy, and you are OK with paying maybe a few hundred premium (at most), go for it. Otherwise you can get a bunch more quotes but you won't find it to be 100% out of range. Your time is also money.
To give a relative comparison over time for different parameters, comparable Bradford White models of 50 gal gas heaters, installed by same plumber, basement no new expansion tank: July '14 $1,100, July '22 $1,700 all in. National CPI would say the $1,100 7/2014 would be ~$1,370 7/2022 (just for context, *not* to debate 'accuracy of CPI', we all know it doesn't apply uniformly, is just an attempt at an overall estimate). Yes, one can in theory buy a similar unit at Lowe's/Depot and DIY install (I think I could if I had to, but besides time and effort I see value in not having to rely on my own plumbing work with gas and hot water, repair a frozen/burst pipe to the garden hose? sure I'll do that myself). I could have gotten 'multiple quotes' and some less established outfit would probably have done the install for less both times. But the 2014 one had a slow leak, I didn't want to fool around. I think it's a pretty apples/apples gauge of the price difference over that period in the NY area.
There is no shame in hiring someone if you feel you are not up to it or are taking too much risk. I replaced mine because I had the skill set and the time. I talked to a plumber (just to get a quote) and it would not be cheap because the platform suffered damage from the leak from a water softener and would need to be replaced but it was something he would want me to do. He was willing to setup a temporary water heater elsewhere in the garage and run lines to/from the unit while a handyman tore down the old stoop and rebuilt a new one, but the cost started approaching $5K (because he would be setting p the water heater twice), so I did it myself and that was 7-1/2 years ago. I read up on all the codes, removed and replaced the platform, installed a thermal expansion tank, check-valves, a bypass, proper grounding (not in effect when I built the house), a hot-water re-circulation pump. The original flue was 4" converted to 3" for the first water heater and now back to 4" for this water heater. To be on the safe side, I called out county inspectors to check the work and no issues were found. The biggest issue with the new water heater is the Flame Vapor (FV) sensor which can have false positives, but I took care of that one too.
What Goes Up Must come down -- David Clayton-Thomas (1968), BST
Californiastate
Posts: 1516
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:52 am

Re: Water heater replacement, etc

Post by Californiastate »

enad wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:51 pm
Californiastate wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:01 pm
enad wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:47 pm
terran wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:50 pm Our new to us house needs the water heater replaced. It's in the crawlspace, so it will be need to be a short and fat unit, which makes it a little more expensive. The plumber is quoting $1750 for a 40 gallon electric A.O. smith 6 year warranty unit, expansion tank (required by code), and a stand to get it up off the ground more than the pavers under the current unit. We're kind of in triage mode right now with what we need to do around the place, so I'd rather not do the whole get a bunch of quotes thing if this is the ballpark of what's reasonable?

I asked about a 12 year unit too. The plumber says it's the same tank with an upgraded anode rod he installs and the a longer warranty period from the manufacturer. He said he usually tells people the 6 year unit should last 15-20 years, and he can't say how much more time the 12 year unit gets you. He can get me a quote for that on Monday, but I'm not sure it's worth it? I'd say it's highly unlikely we'll still own this house in 15-20 years.

The home inspector suggested the idea of moving the water heater up out of the crawlspace with the thinking that it might last longer in better conditioned space. The plumber didn't seem to think this would be worth it, but gave me a quote anyway for about $500 more. It would also mean we'd be turning a small walk-in closet in a secondary bedroom into a regular depth closet (only room for a clothing rod) with a door of some kind at the back (which I'd have to buy and install). I'm inclined to go with the professional's opinion on this with the caveat that I'd like to spend as little time in the crawlspace on a regular basis as I can. Is there maintenance I should be doing on a water heater? How much less life am I likely do get out of a water heater if I just ignore it and let it sit down there?

On a related note, I like to turn off the water when we leave the house for really any amount of time overnight or more (I got a quote to add a loop with a shutoff valve in the same closet mentioned above). I think this means I should also turn off the water heater when I shut off the water? Can I just do this from the electric panel, or will I need to go down into the crawlspace to do something with the water heater? That would defeat the purpose of adding a shutoff valve upstairs.

Thanks!
Get the 6-year model and replace the anode with a powered anode that is usually made of titanium but requires AC power for he wall-wart transformer. A powered anode should easily last 20+ years. I think the code is to have the water heater at least 23" above the ground. If your new unit comes with a Flame Vapor (FV) sensor depending on the climate many can have false positives (extreme cold or extreme heat). You can also invest in a water leak sensor that can shut electrical and water supply to the water heater. I use the Corro-Protec powered anode. To see how it works look here

Best Wishes
How much current does the powered anode draw? What is the lifespan of the powered anode?
The transformer has an output of 24Vdc and 15mA and has a 20-year warranty. There are at least 5 models available depending on the type of tank you have.
What does it warranty for 20 years? Does it warranty its operation or the tank? Is it IAPMO approved?
User avatar
enad
Posts: 1581
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:50 pm

Re: Water heater replacement, etc

Post by enad »

Californiastate wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:26 pm
enad wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:51 pm
Californiastate wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:01 pm
enad wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:47 pm
terran wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:50 pm Our new to us house needs the water heater replaced. It's in the crawlspace, so it will be need to be a short and fat unit, which makes it a little more expensive. The plumber is quoting $1750 for a 40 gallon electric A.O. smith 6 year warranty unit, expansion tank (required by code), and a stand to get it up off the ground more than the pavers under the current unit. We're kind of in triage mode right now with what we need to do around the place, so I'd rather not do the whole get a bunch of quotes thing if this is the ballpark of what's reasonable?

I asked about a 12 year unit too. The plumber says it's the same tank with an upgraded anode rod he installs and the a longer warranty period from the manufacturer. He said he usually tells people the 6 year unit should last 15-20 years, and he can't say how much more time the 12 year unit gets you. He can get me a quote for that on Monday, but I'm not sure it's worth it? I'd say it's highly unlikely we'll still own this house in 15-20 years.

The home inspector suggested the idea of moving the water heater up out of the crawlspace with the thinking that it might last longer in better conditioned space. The plumber didn't seem to think this would be worth it, but gave me a quote anyway for about $500 more. It would also mean we'd be turning a small walk-in closet in a secondary bedroom into a regular depth closet (only room for a clothing rod) with a door of some kind at the back (which I'd have to buy and install). I'm inclined to go with the professional's opinion on this with the caveat that I'd like to spend as little time in the crawlspace on a regular basis as I can. Is there maintenance I should be doing on a water heater? How much less life am I likely do get out of a water heater if I just ignore it and let it sit down there?

On a related note, I like to turn off the water when we leave the house for really any amount of time overnight or more (I got a quote to add a loop with a shutoff valve in the same closet mentioned above). I think this means I should also turn off the water heater when I shut off the water? Can I just do this from the electric panel, or will I need to go down into the crawlspace to do something with the water heater? That would defeat the purpose of adding a shutoff valve upstairs.

Thanks!
Get the 6-year model and replace the anode with a powered anode that is usually made of titanium but requires AC power for he wall-wart transformer. A powered anode should easily last 20+ years. I think the code is to have the water heater at least 23" above the ground. If your new unit comes with a Flame Vapor (FV) sensor depending on the climate many can have false positives (extreme cold or extreme heat). You can also invest in a water leak sensor that can shut electrical and water supply to the water heater. I use the Corro-Protec powered anode. To see how it works look here

Best Wishes
How much current does the powered anode draw? What is the lifespan of the powered anode?
The transformer has an output of 24Vdc and 15mA and has a 20-year warranty. There are at least 5 models available depending on the type of tank you have.
What does it warranty for 20 years? Does it warranty its operation or the tank? Is it IAPMO approved?
The warranty will be on their powered anode. Click on the link above, scroll down to 20-year warranty and expand the "20-Years Warranty Terms and Conditions" that way you can learn all about it.
What Goes Up Must come down -- David Clayton-Thomas (1968), BST
homebuyer6426
Posts: 1830
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:08 am

Re: Water heater replacement, etc

Post by homebuyer6426 »

My water heater just started a tiny leak last week and we had it replaced. 40 gallons, total was $1325 installed for a LCOL area. It was 12 years old and came with the house. We have old galvanized pipes. What OP was quoted sounds reasonable to me. The guy who installed mine mentioned that a few years back this work would have cost about $700 all together. Unfortunately it's in a utility closet by a bedroom and would be a real problem if it ever catastrophically failed, so the plan is to replace it pro-actively at the 10 year mark next time.
45% Total Stock Market | 52% Consumer Staples | 3% Short Term Reserves
Chuckles960
Posts: 917
Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 12:09 pm

Re: Water heater replacement, etc

Post by Chuckles960 »

JackoC wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:26 pm/
To give a relative comparison over time for different parameters, comparable Bradford White models of 50 gal gas heaters, installed by same plumber, basement no new expansion tank: July '14 $1,100, July '22 $1,700 all in. National CPI would say the $1,100 7/2014 would be ~$1,370 7/2022...
A comparison over a longer period, for the same type of water heater (50gal gas, atmospheric, pilot light, 6-year warranty), same service (install new unit and remove old unit):
9/2003: $660 (if scaled by CPI, would be ~$1000 today)
9/2012: $1500 (other quotes were as high as $2500)

Admittedly the new one has a few new features: some kind of safety system, push-button spark lighter for pilot---big deal.
User avatar
enad
Posts: 1581
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:50 pm

Re: Water heater replacement, etc

Post by enad »

Chuckles960 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:42 pm Admittedly the new one has a few new features: some kind of safety system, push-button spark lighter for pilot---big deal.
The Flame Vapor (FV) sensor uses carbon (which acts as a conductor) impregnated silicone to detect the presence of flammable vapors. When the silicone encounters gasoline vapor, it expands, pulling the carbon particles apart and increasing the resistance across two terminals. In high concentrations the resistance reaches a certain threshold and will cause the control unit to shut the gas valve. The controller will flash continuous codes and will need to be reset. 3 resets within a specified amount of time and the controller will need to be unplugged for a specified amount of time, and then reset. The silicone film is sensitive to ambient air temperature and can cause false positives with no flammable vapor present. In the SW desert ambient temperatures outside can hit the 120's and in a garage well over 130 and cause numerous false positives. The manufacture states that users must consider this temperature sensitivity in their system but doesn't specify how to mitigate false positives.

I don't think you can legally purchase a gas water heater with a pilot light anymore since they waste energy and are therefore stuck with the electronic controlled gas heaters or electric water heaters.

Turns out any kind of chemical spill can cause the FV sensor on the water heater to trip i.e. certain aerosol paints, cleaning chemicals, etc ...

Turns out some people would just short out the FV sensor but the controller is set up to detect a dead short and will shut the water heater down.
What Goes Up Must come down -- David Clayton-Thomas (1968), BST
User avatar
Tubes
Posts: 1881
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:33 am

Re: Water heater replacement, etc

Post by Tubes »

enad wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:42 pm
Chuckles960 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:42 pm Admittedly the new one has a few new features: some kind of safety system, push-button spark lighter for pilot---big deal.
I don't think you can legally purchase a gas water heater with a pilot light anymore since they waste energy and are therefore stuck with the electronic controlled gas heaters or electric water heaters.
My brand new State atmospherically vented gas water heater has a pilot light. They are legal in my area. There is a thermopile which powers the valve to do the flammable vapor detection and closure that Chuckles960 mentions.

The FV detection/suppression is really important for me because my basement has a short ceiling, and it has automobiles (basement garage). FV ignition suppression is required by code with the vehicles nearby.

When the house was built in '80, they used a short heater for clearance with no FV concerns. On first replacement, I had to build a platform to raise the pilot light per code, and I was barely able to get it high enough to pass inspection. By 2013, the tanks got even longer, but thankfully the FV suppression allowed me to place the tank low again.

For reference from my records, replacement of said heater. 40 gal, atmospheric vent, 6 yr. warranty, expansion tank included

- 1995: $450 (but I disposed of the old, and no expansion tank back in those days)
- 2013: $1100 (has new FV system)
- 2022: $1900
Chuckles960
Posts: 917
Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 12:09 pm

Re: Water heater replacement, etc

Post by Chuckles960 »

enad wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:42 pmI don't think you can legally purchase a gas water heater with a pilot light anymore since they waste energy...
As the previous post has noted, you certainly can (but maybe not in CA and other states with stricter environmental policies, I don't know). Plus, the energy wastage thing is a red herring; it depends on what you count and don't count. The pilot light certainly consumes energy in and of itself, but it helps to keep the stored water warm. It is no different from the main burner in that sense. No pilot light means a more expensive feel-good unit, but the burner will need to run longer to compensate.

It is the same thing with the insulation surrounding the water tank. Nowadays they have better insulation and this holds the heat in---this is good, right? Well, not in heating season, because unless the water heater is outside the house, less heat going from the water heater to the rest of the house just means the furnace/boiler runs longer. (And heating season is 8 months in my area.)
User avatar
enad
Posts: 1581
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:50 pm

Re: Water heater replacement, etc

Post by enad »

Tubes wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:17 am
enad wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:42 pm
Chuckles960 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:42 pm Admittedly the new one has a few new features: some kind of safety system, push-button spark lighter for pilot---big deal.
I don't think you can legally purchase a gas water heater with a pilot light anymore since they waste energy and are therefore stuck with the electronic controlled gas heaters or electric water heaters.
My brand new State atmospherically vented gas water heater has a pilot light. They are legal in my area. There is a thermopile which powers the valve to do the flammable vapor detection and closure that Chuckles960 mentions.

The FV detection/suppression is really important for me because my basement has a short ceiling, and it has automobiles (basement garage). FV ignition suppression is required by code with the vehicles nearby.

When the house was built in '80, they used a short heater for clearance with no FV concerns. On first replacement, I had to build a platform to raise the pilot light per code, and I was barely able to get it high enough to pass inspection. By 2013, the tanks got even longer, but thankfully the FV suppression allowed me to place the tank low again.

For reference from my records, replacement of said heater. 40 gal, atmospheric vent, 6 yr. warranty, expansion tank included

- 1995: $450 (but I disposed of the old, and no expansion tank back in those days)
- 2013: $1100 (has new FV system)
- 2022: $1900
Out here we have to have water heaters with electronic ignition. Perhaps the whole country will have that one day.
What Goes Up Must come down -- David Clayton-Thomas (1968), BST
User avatar
enad
Posts: 1581
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:50 pm

Re: Water heater replacement, etc

Post by enad »

Chuckles960 wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:42 am
enad wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:42 pmI don't think you can legally purchase a gas water heater with a pilot light anymore since they waste energy...
As the previous post has noted, you certainly can (but maybe not in CA and other states with stricter environmental policies, I don't know). Plus, the energy wastage thing is a red herring; it depends on what you count and don't count. The pilot light certainly consumes energy in and of itself, but it helps to keep the stored water warm. It is no different from the main burner in that sense. No pilot light means a more expensive feel-good unit, but the burner will need to run longer to compensate.

It is the same thing with the insulation surrounding the water tank. Nowadays they have better insulation and this holds the heat in---this is good, right? Well, not in heating season, because unless the water heater is outside the house, less heat going from the water heater to the rest of the house just means the furnace/boiler runs longer. (And heating season is 8 months in my area.)
In our area, new installation or replacements have electronic ignitions so they don't have a standing pilot light. I didn't like that the government mandated water heaters with additional insulation. At replacement, some people were faced with a choice of downsizing the tank capacity, or relocating the water heater elsewhere in the house which can involve some costly plumbing. Ours is in the garage and in an alcove, but if it was any wider both it and the water softener would no longer fit although the water softener would be the cheaper of the two to move. The cord for the electronic controller on the water heater had 7 separate white labels over an 18 inch length of the cord with various warnings.
What Goes Up Must come down -- David Clayton-Thomas (1968), BST
User avatar
Tubes
Posts: 1881
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:33 am

Re: Water heater replacement, etc

Post by Tubes »

Chuckles960 wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:42 am
enad wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:42 pmI don't think you can legally purchase a gas water heater with a pilot light anymore since they waste energy...
As the previous post has noted, you certainly can (but maybe not in CA and other states with stricter environmental policies, I don't know). Plus, the energy wastage thing is a red herring; it depends on what you count and don't count. The pilot light certainly consumes energy in and of itself, but it helps to keep the stored water warm. It is no different from the main burner in that sense. No pilot light means a more expensive feel-good unit, but the burner will need to run longer to compensate.

It is the same thing with the insulation surrounding the water tank. Nowadays they have better insulation and this holds the heat in---this is good, right? Well, not in heating season, because unless the water heater is outside the house, less heat going from the water heater to the rest of the house just means the furnace/boiler runs longer. (And heating season is 8 months in my area.)
When we go on vacation, I'll spin the temp to "pilot" and it is amazing how comfortably warm the water is when we come back. Maybe not shower warm, but good enough to notice on hand washing. All from a little light burning. Now I shut the gas valve off for long vacations to save a few bucks.

The insulation thing is a plus/minus for our garage. Plus in the winter, keeps the garage warmer, minus in the summer as it gets hot. Most of the heat is from the flue.

Which brings me to power vented units. I think user enad is getting at power vented gas units. These are like condensing furnaces and are more efficient. Since they have to be powered by electric for the blower, they also have hot surface ignition instead of a pilot light. This kind of system may be required in some local codes.

I personally like the fact that the traditional atmospheric vented models require no electric. It has come in handy when we had days long power outages during ice storm events. As the house cooled, I could at least get a warm shower.
meebers
Posts: 501
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:20 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Water heater replacement, etc

Post by meebers »

I have a NG WH with "glass lining" do anodes mater at all in this.
User avatar
just frank
Posts: 1933
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:13 pm
Location: Philly Metro

Re: Water heater replacement, etc

Post by just frank »

meebers wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:41 am I have a NG WH with "glass lining" do anodes mater at all in this.
All steel tank water heaters have a 'glass' lining. This lining invariably has small defects and pinholes where corrosion starts, and undercuts the liner.

The anode prevents this corrosion.
ncbill
Posts: 2049
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:03 pm
Location: Western NC

Re: Water heater replacement, etc

Post by ncbill »

Californiastate wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:05 pm
billaster wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:48 pm
Chuckles960 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:10 am
billaster wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:48 pm That's pretty amusing and actually provides evidence opposite of what you might think. That's a $20 anode that they are selling for $150, which just happens to be about what a water heater with an extended warranty costs without a second anode. This anode is just for show, to make you think you are getting something for your money. You could just toss it aside and slap the 4-year warranty extension label on the heater and be done with it. You've got an extended warranty and less unnecessary labor.

You can look at the off the shelf Rheem 6, 9 and 12 year heaters and they don't have a second anode. They are identical and you are just paying for the extended warranty. This vastly overpriced and mostly useless anode is just an excuse to upsell an extended warranty.
Yes, $150 is a very high price for the anode. No, the second anode is not "useless".

If I were able to install a water heater myself, I would probably add an anode to the hot water outlet. However, this is beyond my DIY capabilities. Local installers are uniformly charging about $1000 plus the retail price of the water heater. It's absurd. $150 for an installed second anode is also one of those things, you gotta pay. But it is not worthless.
If it's not worthless, then why don't they just put two anodes in every heater? Their cost of a second anode would be maybe $10 at the factory. Apparently they do not think it's worth even $10 to put it in at the factory. Instead they charge $150 for some hocus pocus which just happens to be the cost of an extended warranty if they bought it with the original heater with no second anode.

And by worthless, I mean it in the context of the risk of a water heater failure over a 6, 9, or 12 year period.
They don't put 2 anodes or special linings in retail residential water heaters because of the cost. High end commercial water heaters like PVI and Lochinvar cost a mint. The average handy homeowner isn't going to pay $5k for a 50 gallon tank water heater.
I had a ~20-year-old Vaughn electric water heater replaced up at the cabin this year.

The plumbers were exhausted after moving it out of the crawl space since it used a cement lining instead of a sacrificial anode.

They are still available if your installers are willing to handle their significant weight:

https://www.vaughncorp.com/hydrastone-cement/
Post Reply