Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

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Jb526
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Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by Jb526 »

Over the past year, I've been having some extensive refurbishments done to a home that I own. This has all been done through the same general contractor during that time, and I have been pleased with their work. Most of the materials have been purchased through the general contractor and have been subject to the contractor's markup. I figure this was to my advantage, though, since it meant the contractor would be handling the purchasing, receiving, scheduling, installation, etc., related to these items.

However, now that we're finally toward the end of the project, there are a couple of larger yet unexpected items that need to be purchased and installed. I would prefer to purchase these materials on my own and simply pay the contractor to install them. And I wouldn't complain if the contractor added their markup after the fact. Unfortunately, the contractor has stated to me that if I was to purchase the materials myself, then the contractor would not offer any warranty on the work. The materials, themselves, would still retain the manufacturers' respective warranties, but the contractor would provide no warranty on the installation. I am very perplexed by this, especially since the items would still be delivered to the contractor direct; it's just that I would be the one submitting payment.

Is this normal?

Should I ask that a new contract be drawn up regarding the installation of these final items and that the new contract state that the contractor will offer a warranty regardless of who pays for the materials?

I can see why the contractor would be hesitant to warranty the work done with materials of questionable origin, but in this instance they would have unimpeded input regarding the source of the materials, but I would be the one writing the check.

One example that comes to mind are kit houses. When a prospective homeowner purchases a kit house and then finds a contractor to assemble it, wouldn't that contractor still offer a warranty on their assembly workmanship even though the kit house wasn't purchased directly by them?

To anyone with experience in this sort of circumstance, I'm open to your comments.
HomeStretch
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by HomeStretch »

If you are willing to pay the contractor markup and want your contractor to warranty the install, why not just have the contractor order these items rather than order yourself?

Drafting a new contract requiring the contractor to warranty materials regardless of who purchases them only works if your contractor is willing to sign it.
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galawdawg
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by galawdawg »

Yes, it is not uncommon that a contractor, auto mechanic or others do not provide a warranty when they are only supplying labor to install a customer-furnished part. One reason some do that is to avoid accepting responsibility for parts or materials supplied by the customer that may have been purchased second-hand, are retailer returns or "factory seconds" or of substandard quality.

Since you said you don't object to him adding his normal mark-up to the materials you want to purchase, why not just specify the materials you want him to use and let him purchase and install them? For example, if you want to install a Delta Cassidy touch kitchen faucet in Venetian Bronze and you planned on buying it from Home Depot. Just specify that you want a Delta Cassidy touch kitchen faucet in Venetian Bronze and let him purchase and install it. In fact, depending on the parts or materials involved, you may find that his price, including his markup, is lower than the price on what you acquire, including his markup.
UpperNwGuy
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by UpperNwGuy »

Yes, this is normal. The contractor loses control of his work quality if he has to use materials of unknown origin.
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by Mr. Rumples »

I have plumbers always insist on providing their own material except when it comes to appliances such as garbage disposals, but even then I let them do it so it doesn't get into finger pointing if there is an issue.
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HueyLD
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by HueyLD »

The OP asked: “ Is this normal?”

Yes, it is customary as it should be.

Let’s turn the table around and you are now the contractor. How could you offer any warranty on the material if the customer gives you a piece of material of unknown origin and quality? The customer could have picked up the material from a junk yard.

Even in a well known warranty replacement (from the manufacturer), the contractor may still refuse to install the part you receive directly from the manufacturer with a warranty unless he orders that on your behalf or you waive the warranty. What a mess!
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by stoptothink »

galawdawg wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:14 am Yes, it is not uncommon that a contractor, auto mechanic or others do not provide a warranty when they are only supplying labor to install a customer-furnished part. One reason some do that is to avoid accepting responsibility for parts or materials supplied by the customer that may have been purchased second-hand, are retailer returns or "factory seconds" or of substandard quality.
It's normal in every related industry. A lot of these companies not only won't warranty the work, but they won't do it at all if you insist on providing your own materials. Annoying (when, for instance, I can buy quality brake pads for my car for $25 on Rock Auto but the shop charges me $75 for essentially the same thing), but it's not difficult to understand why.
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by adamthesmythe »

Maybe OP is hoping to get CC cash rewards. Maybe the contractor is thinking the same thing. Maybe the contractor gets some sort of reward from his regular supplier at the end of the year. Maybe he is just concerned about delivery scheduling, etc.

Whatever. OP actually HAS a contractor that is GOOD and SHOWS UP at a time when most people can't get contractors to return their calls. This argues for doing it however the contractor prefers.

(And in general: attempting to supply parts takes away the contractor's expected markup, makes him do things differently, and marks you as a potentially difficult client. My approach is to ask for a bid, and if acceptable I go with it. I don't try to micromanage. I don't try to guess if he's making "too much" per hour).
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by vineviz »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:25 am Yes, this is normal. The contractor loses control of his work quality if he has to use materials of unknown origin.
Yep.

The contractor also loses the ability to push the problem upstream to their suppliers if need be. Many distributors and/or manufacturers will go to great lengths to help out a valued customer (i.e. the contractor) if they get into a jam.

My auto mechanic's distributor has (knowingly and willingly) accepted returned parts from them under "warranty" more than once when they really didn't have to. I expect no such backstop if I bring in my own alternator or brake calipers.
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gavinsiu
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by gavinsiu »

Yes,

There are two reasons for this:
1. They can't control if the owner has purchase subpar second handed parts.
2. They don't make a mark up.
rebellovw
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by rebellovw »

Depends on what your are buying - my Contractor is fine with my choices and me doing that if necessary and I buy the correct stuff. If you are trying to save a buck by buying Home Depot wood for instance - then yes - no warranty.

It depends on what you are buying.

My contractor only uses the local lumberyard - where the wood is of much higher quality and thickness.

The most important thing is having a good contractor - don't lose that to save a buck as there are many bad ones out there.
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by gavinsiu »

rebellovw wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:13 am Depends on what your are buying - my Contractor is fine with my choices and me doing that if necessary and I buy the correct stuff. If you are trying to save a buck by buying Home Depot wood for instance - then yes - no warranty.

It depends on what you are buying.

My contractor only uses the local lumberyard - where the wood is of much higher quality and thickness.

The most important thing is having a good contractor - don't lose that to save a buck as there are many bad ones out there.
True, it's not always the case. My contractor was OK with me supplying the paint as long as I can prove that I got the required paint.
rebellovw
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by rebellovw »

gavinsiu wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:17 am
rebellovw wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:13 am Depends on what your are buying - my Contractor is fine with my choices and me doing that if necessary and I buy the correct stuff. If you are trying to save a buck by buying Home Depot wood for instance - then yes - no warranty.

It depends on what you are buying.

My contractor only uses the local lumberyard - where the wood is of much higher quality and thickness.

The most important thing is having a good contractor - don't lose that to save a buck as there are many bad ones out there.
True, it's not always the case. My contractor was OK with me supplying the paint as long as I can prove that I got the required paint.
Yep - for my Kitchen Remodel - I bought the appliances, sink, faucet, tile, disposal, and a few other things.
dak
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by dak »

Is there any possibility that the contractor's insurance will not cover problems if the contractor does not supply the items? Or at least things would get much more messy if there is a problem down the road?

OP already indicated that he would be willing to pay the markup, so there must be more to the story that simply that the contractor is losing money on the owner supplied parts....
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

dak wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:24 am Is there any possibility that the contractor's insurance will not cover problems if the contractor does not supply the items? Or at least things would get much more messy if there is a problem down the road?

OP already indicated that he would be willing to pay the markup, so there must be more to the story that simply that the contractor is losing money on the owner supplied parts....
Maybe the opportunity to get rewards points or 0% financing.

I bought all the appliances, sink, faucet, garbage disposal for my kitchen remodel, and my GC installed everything. But honestly it would have been a total waste of time for his planner to try to get decisions out of DW. The only way I know how to do it is to say, "decision due by 7:00PM Sunday, or I make the decision."

Generic items like that are low price items. Kinda hard to really botch installation of those pretty standard components.

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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by quantAndHold »

My bathroom contractor let me go to Ferguson, pick out my own fixtures, and pay for it using my own credit card. But I used his account for the order, mostly to get his contractor discount.

Actually, he had me buy all of the cosmetic stuff myself (countertops, tile, vanity, lighting), but except for the lighting, it all came from vendors he worked with, and they knew it was for one of his projects. The light fixtures came from Amazon, since they were the same fixtures we saw at the lighting place he recommended, for half the price. He was okay with it.
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by jarjarM »

quantAndHold wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:13 pm My bathroom contractor let me go to Ferguson, pick out my own fixtures, and pay for it using my own credit card. But I used his account for the order, mostly to get his contractor discount.

Actually, he had me buy all of the cosmetic stuff myself (countertops, tile, vanity, lighting), but except for the lighting, it all came from vendors he worked with, and they knew it was for one of his projects. The light fixtures came from Amazon, since they were the same fixtures we saw at the lighting place he recommended, for half the price. He was okay with it.
That's my experience when we did a large model work on our current home. We used the contractor's account to purchase most of the materials w/ his discount but with our cc. He supplied some basic materials from home depot and warrant all workmanship.
123
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by 123 »

How can a contractor offer a warranty if he is not part of the supply chain?

It would be like hiring a neighbor to install something you purchased and expecting the neighbor to warrant it.
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by tibbitts »

The default would be to not have a warranty from a contractor for items you supply yourself, although there may be occasional exceptions for a labor-only warranty. I think the exceptions would mostly apply where you only wanted to supply a small part of the materials. For example I bought some passive vents for my roof that were cosmetically different than the contractor had usually used, but that didn't void the contractor's labor warranty for the roof. I don't know that I would have gotten a warranty if I had bought all the underlayment, shingles, etc. I asked the contractor if he wanted to order the vents but he said he'd rather just have me order them.
Last edited by tibbitts on Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Katietsu
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by Katietsu »

I am curious now. If OP is OK with markup, what is the issue?
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by SevenBridgesRoad »

jarjarM wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:32 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:13 pm My bathroom contractor let me go to Ferguson, pick out my own fixtures, and pay for it using my own credit card. But I used his account for the order, mostly to get his contractor discount.

Actually, he had me buy all of the cosmetic stuff myself (countertops, tile, vanity, lighting), but except for the lighting, it all came from vendors he worked with, and they knew it was for one of his projects. The light fixtures came from Amazon, since they were the same fixtures we saw at the lighting place he recommended, for half the price. He was okay with it.
That's my experience when we did a large model work on our current home. We used the contractor's account to purchase most of the materials w/ his discount but with our cc. He supplied some basic materials from home depot and warrant all workmanship.
This has been our experience on two major home remodeling projects. We've bought paint, floor tile, engineered wood flooring, granite countertops, cabinets, kitchen appliances, shower valves, faucets, tub, paint, etc. And, smaller jobs too, such as replacing older toilets. Our plumber had no problem with ordering Toto toilets online. No issue ever with warranties by contractors.

So, maybe your question shouldn't be using the word "normal". Sounds like some contractors are not OK with this approach. But clearly many are.
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by 123 »

Katietsu wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:06 pm I am curious now. If OP is OK with markup, what is the issue?
The OP might want particular or specialty items that take special order or other procedures that the contractor doesn't ordinarily want to bother with. It could be as simple as a specialty merchant wanting pre-payment for items whereas the contractor's regular supplier may give extended credit/discount to contractor but doesn't carry the brand involved. We had a situation on a remodel where we wanted a particular specialty (drawer configuration) cabinet piece for a nook and the contractor just never got around to ordering it (we think because it required payment up-front).
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by pshonore »

rebellovw wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:13 am Depends on what your are buying - my Contractor is fine with my choices and me doing that if necessary and I buy the correct stuff. If you are trying to save a buck by buying Home Depot wood for instance - then yes - no warranty.

It depends on what you are buying.

My contractor only uses the local lumberyard - where the wood is of much higher quality and thickness.

The most important thing is having a good contractor - don't lose that to save a buck as there are many bad ones out there.
I can certainly accept the quality angle but the thickness? Standard construction lumber doesn't usually vary.
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by punkinhead »

I have friends who do flooring installs and they won't install flooring supplied by the customer because there is so much low quality stuff on the market. If you've ever installed a real wood floor you know what a difference quality materials makes to the ease and quality of the installation. Most customers cannot make the distinction between quality products and those sold by big box stores.
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

punkinhead wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:19 pm I have friends who do flooring installs and they won't install flooring supplied by the customer because there is so much low quality stuff on the market. If you've ever installed a real wood floor you know what a difference quality materials makes to the ease and quality of the installation. Most customers cannot make the distinction between quality products and those sold by big box stores.
With real wood flooring you have to be careful of how it is stored, as well. A GC will know where to buy flooring that he/she is willing to stand behind.

A neighbor is having an issue with the tile for their bathroom remodel. Needs several pieces. Not in stock, anywhere. The tile might have been closeout. Uh, oh! Worse case GC will have to rip out, retile. No cost to neighbor, except the aggravation, lack of use for their master bath.

One should always have spares of all the various flooring pieces. We do, but have never had to replace anything thus far.

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pshonore
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by pshonore »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:15 pm
punkinhead wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:19 pm I have friends who do flooring installs and they won't install flooring supplied by the customer because there is so much low quality stuff on the market. If you've ever installed a real wood floor you know what a difference quality materials makes to the ease and quality of the installation. Most customers cannot make the distinction between quality products and those sold by big box stores.
With real wood flooring you have to be careful of how it is stored, as well. A GC will know where to buy flooring that he/she is willing to stand behind.

A neighbor is having an issue with the tile for their bathroom remodel. Needs several pieces. Not in stock, anywhere. The tile might have been closeout. Uh, oh! Worse case GC will have to rip out, retile. No cost to neighbor, except the aggravation, lack of use for their master bath.

One should always have spares of all the various flooring pieces. We do, but have never had to replace anything thus far.

Broken Man 1999
The important thing, particularly with solid flooring, is to let it sit for 4-5 days to acclimate to where it is being installed. And there is nothing wrong with name brand flooring (like Bruce or Armstrong) bought at Home Depot.
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by rebellovw »

pshonore wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:46 pm
rebellovw wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:13 am Depends on what your are buying - my Contractor is fine with my choices and me doing that if necessary and I buy the correct stuff. If you are trying to save a buck by buying Home Depot wood for instance - then yes - no warranty.

It depends on what you are buying.

My contractor only uses the local lumberyard - where the wood is of much higher quality and thickness.

The most important thing is having a good contractor - don't lose that to save a buck as there are many bad ones out there.
I can certainly accept the quality angle but the thickness? Standard construction lumber doesn't usually vary.
Home Depot sells thin planks - ex for redwood fencing - thin and narrow - very cheap/wont last - whereas say economy lumber sells much thicker and wider planks that you can't find at HD. Not to mention 4X4s, 8X8s etc. Lumberyard is where you get the best wood and best cuts that you can't get at HD.
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by Californiastate »

rebellovw wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:01 pm
pshonore wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:46 pm
rebellovw wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:13 am Depends on what your are buying - my Contractor is fine with my choices and me doing that if necessary and I buy the correct stuff. If you are trying to save a buck by buying Home Depot wood for instance - then yes - no warranty.

It depends on what you are buying.

My contractor only uses the local lumberyard - where the wood is of much higher quality and thickness.

The most important thing is having a good contractor - don't lose that to save a buck as there are many bad ones out there.
I can certainly accept the quality angle but the thickness? Standard construction lumber doesn't usually vary.
Home Depot sells thin planks - ex for redwood fencing - thin and narrow - very cheap/wont last - whereas say economy lumber sells much thicker and wider planks that you can't find at HD. Not to mention 4X4s, 8X8s etc. Lumberyard is where you get the best wood and best cuts that you can't get at HD.
HD doesn't stock everything. They don't stock the best redwood. They stock basic redwood fencing. I thought your contractor was refering to structural wood such as fir 2x4s etc.
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Jb526
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by Jb526 »

Hi, all,

Original poster here.

The reason why I would like to purchase items directly is because I have found that I can get much better pricing and essentially free financing.

For example, I am obtaining the interior and exterior paint from a nationally well-known paint store. Their sales promotion for regular consumers is allowing me to benefit from significant savings that even the contractor discounts cannot achieve.

On items purchased through the large home improvement stores, I can obtain discounts as a relative of a military member. From the invoices I have seen from the construction company so far, they are obtaining zero savings as a contractor except for having sales tax waived. Of course, since our state law requires contractors to charge sales tax on labor, materials, and supplies to their customers (me), I end up paying sales tax anyway.

Further, by purchasing items myself, I can benefit from two years of 0% financing on any one of several credit cards that I already possess and all of which have long 0% promotions going. This is significant in and of itself since it is allowing me to fund this entire whole-home remodel via financing without withdrawing funds from investments.

I just don't understand why any of this would impact the warranty offered by the contractor. We would simply go to the home improvement store or whatever the supplier may be for the materials. The contractor would have the store prepare the order. The contractor could be listed as the customer or the party to receive delivery at the project site. I would be listed as the party to be billed. I would have the supplier swipe my credit card right then and there. And that's that. The material would be fully paid for, and the contractor would receive the materials. The contractor would have a copy of the invoice if they needed to return unused material or exchange any damaged material like for like. Not too complicated, in my opinion.

It seems like this should be commonplace. Is it truly that much of an oddity in this field?
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by rob »

Pretty normal since they miss the kick-backs/over-charging on the materials.
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Jb526
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by Jb526 »

quantAndHold wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:13 pm My bathroom contractor let me go to Ferguson, pick out my own fixtures, and pay for it using my own credit card. But I used his account for the order, mostly to get his contractor discount.

Actually, he had me buy all of the cosmetic stuff myself (countertops, tile, vanity, lighting), but except for the lighting, it all came from vendors he worked with, and they knew it was for one of his projects. The light fixtures came from Amazon, since they were the same fixtures we saw at the lighting place he recommended, for half the price. He was okay with it.
That sounds like a wonderful arrangement! That's the sort of thing I was hoping for.

Of course, before posting here, I brought this up to the contractor and got a reply along the lines of it not being possible because of taxes or something. It seems like there should be accounting methods to deal with that, though. It's just so perplexing to me. I plan to take what I learn from the responses from everyone here and prod the contractor for a more detailed explanation.
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by HomeStretch »

Sounds like your general contractor has been pretty clear about how he does business. Be careful how much you continue to prod your contractor. He may decide not to do the work at all.
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by bluebirdy »

Yes, it's normal.

Even if your way is 'better' (and it sounds like it is better financially for you), it sounds like the different way of doings things that you propose is adding unwanted complexity for the contractor.

You are becoming a relatively difficult client, wanting to do things differently than his normal operating procedure. Some people are just naturally resistant to change even if it leads to marginal improvement (and 10% ish sounds marginal, especially when he is getting none of that benefit; maybe he likes charging everything to a certain credit card and normally gets 5% cashback at these stores, and your proposal takes that away).

He already told you there could be tax implications. If you continue pushing for what you want here, you may need to offer additional money for the extra time it takes the contractor to think through and understand this new way of doing things that you are proposing... in addition to making up for the 2 to 5% credit card cashback he may be losing.
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by LadyGeek »

Jb526 has a different question which I've moved into a new thread. See: Major remodeling costs. Should I keep this home?

(Thanks to the member who reported the post and explained what's wrong.)
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Re: Normal for contractor to refuse to offer warranty if I purchase my own materials?

Post by vineviz »

Jb526 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:26 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:13 pm My bathroom contractor let me go to Ferguson, pick out my own fixtures, and pay for it using my own credit card. But I used his account for the order, mostly to get his contractor discount.

Actually, he had me buy all of the cosmetic stuff myself (countertops, tile, vanity, lighting), but except for the lighting, it all came from vendors he worked with, and they knew it was for one of his projects. The light fixtures came from Amazon, since they were the same fixtures we saw at the lighting place he recommended, for half the price. He was okay with it.
That sounds like a wonderful arrangement! That's the sort of thing I was hoping for.

Of course, before posting here, I brought this up to the contractor and got a reply along the lines of it not being possible because of taxes or something. It seems like there should be accounting methods to deal with that, though. It's just so perplexing to me. I plan to take what I learn from the responses from everyone here and prod the contractor for a more detailed explanation.
I think you've got the wrong takeaway from this discussion, to be honest.

Your contractor is taking a reasonable and typical approach to the situation, and I think the vast majority of comments in this thread support that.
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