Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
So I have a plumbing issue. I have a two story house and my wife decided last year to dump turtle shells into the bathtub/toilet. Since then we had basement bathtub and toilet back up sewer three times. Plumbers come in fix the problem temporarily and return few months later for same issue to cash another $350. It seems like we a paying quarterly subscription service... Anybody has idea what the issue is here? And how much am I looking to have this fixed permanently.
Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
Did these plumbers run a camera down the entire line? It's about the only way to "see" what's happening down there.
- ResearchMed
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Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
Do you have a flap in the drain in the basement in the main line to the sewer (after the last of the bathroom fixtures; that is, on the "street side" of them) that only allows flow in one direction?
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Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
I think there is an access for that in my utility room.ResearchMed wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:38 pm Do you have a flap in the drain in the basement in the main line to the sewer (after the last of the bathroom fixtures; that is, on the "street side" of them) that only allows flow in one direction?
RM
- Cheez-It Guy
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Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
Sorry, but what does it mean to dump turtle shells? Under what circumstances does this happen?
Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
Get a camera down there. You might be surprised what else is there other than shells!
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Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
You may have a larger problem, so you should consider paying for a camera and video inspection. Any professional plumber should have a video scope these days. It will probably cost a few hundred dollars.
Running a snake may just be punching a small hole in the obstruction that ultimately gets blocked again. It isn’t rocket science; they’re just feeling around with the snake and it is hard to know what is happening just by feel.
If the camera finds the obstruction (ask to watch the screen with the plumber as they snake the camera… it will be interesting), your next step may then be for the plumber to jet your sewer line at high PSI and having a chain knocker scour it clean. That will do far more than the snake. You may need to go with a larger shop to get a decent jetting and scouring with the chain knocker.
Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
Same circumstances as eggplants.Cheez-It Guy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:57 pm Sorry, but what does it mean to dump turtle shells? Under what circumstances does this happen?
Like good comrades to the utmost of their strength, we shall go on to the end. -- Winston Churchill
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Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
Gotta be a more interesting story than hot pasta down the disposal, which is the best one I have to tell.tooluser wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:05 pmSame circumstances as eggplants.Cheez-It Guy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:57 pm Sorry, but what does it mean to dump turtle shells? Under what circumstances does this happen?
Agree with others that OP needs a plumber to figure out exactly what is going on rather than one delivering a temporary "fix."
Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
More seriously, I had recurring whole-house sewer backups for over a decade.
The video inspection revealed a failing mainline to the city sewer that was not the problem, but which would eventually be the problem. The real problem was in two parts: old 1950s cast-iron fittings under the house that were oddly configured and basically guaranteed a recurring backup, and a transition from house sewer lines to mainline that had a mismatched transition that also basically guaranteed a recurring backup.
So I had them replace all the problematical drain lines, and I haven't had a problem since. I hope that continues, but without another video inspection there's no real way to know for sure. The replacements included several areas under the house in the crawl space, and a re-line of the connection to the city sewer. Very expensive but probably necessary. There's nothing like seeing every issue "in person" to know what needs to be done.
Look up the typical price for your area before you agree to any work.
The video inspection revealed a failing mainline to the city sewer that was not the problem, but which would eventually be the problem. The real problem was in two parts: old 1950s cast-iron fittings under the house that were oddly configured and basically guaranteed a recurring backup, and a transition from house sewer lines to mainline that had a mismatched transition that also basically guaranteed a recurring backup.
So I had them replace all the problematical drain lines, and I haven't had a problem since. I hope that continues, but without another video inspection there's no real way to know for sure. The replacements included several areas under the house in the crawl space, and a re-line of the connection to the city sewer. Very expensive but probably necessary. There's nothing like seeing every issue "in person" to know what needs to be done.
Look up the typical price for your area before you agree to any work.
Like good comrades to the utmost of their strength, we shall go on to the end. -- Winston Churchill
Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
Garbage disposal in the bathtub?
https://youtu.be/NMQTg4Y0YT0
But seriously, another recommendation to the OP for a camera inspection.
Last edited by EngCapt1 on Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
Alas it's a reference to the old MTV series "The Real World", season two. One of the reality TV people was Judd, who was trying to make it as a comic strip artist. One of the highlighted comics involves a child putting an eggplant down the toilet, "Again!", which is the joke.Doom&Gloom wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:13 pmGotta be a more interesting story than hot pasta down the disposal, which is the best one I have to tell.tooluser wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:05 pmSame circumstances as eggplants.Cheez-It Guy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:57 pm Sorry, but what does it mean to dump turtle shells? Under what circumstances does this happen?
I will say however, that when I first took possession of my house it had previously been lived in by a young family. I noticed that the kitchen drain was slow, and ended up disconnecting the U-trap under the sink. It had two small cars, a rubber ball, and several rubber bands inside.
Like good comrades to the utmost of their strength, we shall go on to the end. -- Winston Churchill
Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the issue is that you have turtle shells in your pipes. Perhaps one or more lodged sideways, creating some sort of oh, I don't know, shield? that keeps things from going through the pipe to elsewhere... Yup. Nobody has found these yet?
Guess what? It takes about 50 years for a turtle's shell to decompose. It's like flushing bones down your toilet. Yup. You're going to have to take that stuff apart. Good luck.
Or you could move.
Guess what? It takes about 50 years for a turtle's shell to decompose. It's like flushing bones down your toilet. Yup. You're going to have to take that stuff apart. Good luck.
Or you could move.
"The only thing that makes life possible is permanent, intolerable uncertainty; not knowing what comes next." ~Ursula LeGuin
Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
It depends on the turtle. These sound like the Teenage Mutant type. Very hard to eradicate.Beensabu wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:46 pm I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the issue is that you have turtle shells in your pipes. Perhaps one or more lodged sideways, creating some sort of oh, I don't know, shield? that keeps things from going through the pipe to elsewhere... Yup. Nobody has found these yet?
Guess what? It takes about 50 years for a turtle's shell to decompose. It's like flushing bones down your toilet. Yup. You're going to have to take that stuff apart. Good luck.
Or you could move.
Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
One could imagine a turtle shell wedged in there acting like a damper plate. Sometimes it is parallel to the pipe and stuff flows. Other times, debris hits the plate, and it spins to 90 degrees. Plumbers come and snake flips it back, while the shell is still there.
As other say, OP needs a real diagnosis and understanding of their sewer "lateral" that connects to the main. Around where I live, a lot of city owned laterals have broken at the main, and the city actually has to dig up the connection. But the only way to get that diagnosis is through a plumber with inspection who then consults with the city. Then again, it could just be the lateral that the OP owns.
There's not enough information either. Depends on OP's house age, and region. For instance, if you want a nightmare, look up "orangeburg pipe". In some regions, this stuff was used for about 30 years after WWII. It is wood, paper and tar pipe. It didn't last.
As other say, OP needs a real diagnosis and understanding of their sewer "lateral" that connects to the main. Around where I live, a lot of city owned laterals have broken at the main, and the city actually has to dig up the connection. But the only way to get that diagnosis is through a plumber with inspection who then consults with the city. Then again, it could just be the lateral that the OP owns.
There's not enough information either. Depends on OP's house age, and region. For instance, if you want a nightmare, look up "orangeburg pipe". In some regions, this stuff was used for about 30 years after WWII. It is wood, paper and tar pipe. It didn't last.
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Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
Haha! Could be! Perhaps making a batch of turtle shell soup in the shower? That's why you gotta use softshell turtles. Sounds like someone mixed up the main and auxiliary drain lines.EngCapt1 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:22 pmGarbage disposal in the bathtub?
https://youtu.be/NMQTg4Y0YT0
But seriously, another recommendation to the OP for a camera inspection.
Not really helpful to the OP, and not to be crude, but a good rule of thumb to teach kids (and wives?) is that you should only ever flush the three P's down the toilet -- pee, poop, and paper (toilet variety). Pretty much anything else should be a no-go.
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Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
To OP:Blue456 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:09 pm So I have a plumbing issue. I have a two story house and my wife decided last year to dump turtle shells into the bathtub/toilet. Since then we had basement bathtub and toilet back up sewer three times. Plumbers come in fix the problem temporarily and return few months later for same issue to cash another $350. It seems like we a paying quarterly subscription service... Anybody has idea what the issue is here? And how much am I looking to have this fixed permanently.
based on exactly this type of experience. . . many many times.
There are "things" that get down a sewer feed, lateral, or main, that do not "flow" well with liquid/water flushes, etc, with other material and unto themselves. Especially things that clump together, do not float or remain in suspension or dissolve to smaller particles.
IE: barbie doll or plastic G.I.Joe pieces, marbles, nearly anything out of the bottom of an aquarium (from sand to marbles to . . .shells), plastic toothbrushes and disposable plastic razors, all types of plastic children's toys, plastic "Lego's", and so forth.
**Especially the shape of the foreign object. .. plastic lids of the exact size to get down the toilet, . . "turtle shell". . . .etc .
(drain snakes flip past certain objects in a line, or just push them aside. . like maybe in this case).
Actionable solution:
A "professional" plumber or "Roto Rooter" like company (there can be a big difference in equipment and experience. *** Call a professional "drain cleaning/routing company as well), needs to run a camera down your lines to see exactly where the hang up is, where did the "shells" end up. . maybe hung up on a "Sweep" or "T" or "Transition", etc.
From there, the solutions might include:
Running a large long spinning drain snake down the line with a "root bit" and seeing if the turtle shells can be broken up, etc.
Digging up exactly where the plug is, Turtle shells, by calculating the snake line length to it, and the layout of the plumbing, and digging it up, opening the line, removing the material, and putting things back together. (tough but doable if under a cement slab).
But, until a camera is run down the line, all that happens is each "router service" is hoping to push the material farther and farther until it hits the largest main or lateral and can get washed down more easily.
To OP:
I hope this is helpful to you.
j
dis laimer: zillions of paths and options and opinionizations based on nil to few to extensive personal or professional experience. This is only one, professionally.
Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
This thread gives me flash backs of going out on jobs with my dad, a professional plumber from the 40's through 80's. His work was before cameras. After decades of experience, he could "feel" the issues. Kind of amazing. Upon feeling the problem -- if it didn't clear -- he'd measure the length of rod (snake) to discuss further options. Most of the time, with clay tile pipe, it was tree roots.
The machine he had was a beast with a very thick coil snake that required metal woven gloves. He'd put a spring-cutter on the end that would expand to the size of the pipe. When running, it could turn your hand into small particles. Nasty, nasty machine and work.
My point of this story? Get a new plumber. As Sandtrap and others say, you need a camera inspection. Even without it, the other plumbers should have given you a better solution. A real rodding/rooting/snaking should even clear a turtle shell. Well, I at least know the cutter they used in the 70s would have! (Perhaps they don't use such aggressive cutters these days with soft PVC...)
The machine he had was a beast with a very thick coil snake that required metal woven gloves. He'd put a spring-cutter on the end that would expand to the size of the pipe. When running, it could turn your hand into small particles. Nasty, nasty machine and work.
My point of this story? Get a new plumber. As Sandtrap and others say, you need a camera inspection. Even without it, the other plumbers should have given you a better solution. A real rodding/rooting/snaking should even clear a turtle shell. Well, I at least know the cutter they used in the 70s would have! (Perhaps they don't use such aggressive cutters these days with soft PVC...)
Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
There has been no clear answer for this yet anywhere in the thread. How/why does one dump turtle shells into a bathtub? Why would one dump turtle shells into a toilet? I'd like to follow this plumbing thread but can't get by this nonsensical and unexplained premise.
Nobody knows nothing.
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Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
windaar wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:11 amThere has been no clear answer for this yet anywhere in the thread. How/why does one dump turtle shells into a bathtub? Why would one dump turtle shells into a toilet? I'd like to follow this plumbing thread but can't get by this nonsensical and unexplained premise.
+1
Have you 'fessed up to the plumbers about the turtle shells? Could knowing that make a difference in how they proceed?
Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
One more thing. "Flushable wipes" are not flushable. Don't do it.
Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
I'd suggest Roto-Rooter. Perhaps a bit more expensive to start but they do guarantee their work.
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Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
I've heard you can sometimes coax them out with pizza.
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Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
Why does your wife have turtle shells? Very weird.
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Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
That is a terrible plumber though that just keeps charging $350 without fixing the problem. $350 itself is pretty steep for running a snake through a drain, I just had this done and it was like $120 for a legit plumbing outfit to do it for an hour. My guy charges like another $100 to run a camera down a line.
I don't know what the story is with how turtle shells even get down a drain, was it small "shards" that were broken up, like glass?
The only way I see it ever getting resolved is pulverizing them and pushing them all down into the sewer. Those aren't going to dissolve anytime soon. Something like those drain bladders "might" push them down and out of the drain, but that's probably a long shot. I've actually had good luck with that tool and its something a DIY'er can easily do. Just hook it to a hose and put down your clean out valves.
I'd echo all the other comments though and get a camera down there. And find a different plumber that actually wants to solve the problem long term.
I don't know what the story is with how turtle shells even get down a drain, was it small "shards" that were broken up, like glass?
The only way I see it ever getting resolved is pulverizing them and pushing them all down into the sewer. Those aren't going to dissolve anytime soon. Something like those drain bladders "might" push them down and out of the drain, but that's probably a long shot. I've actually had good luck with that tool and its something a DIY'er can easily do. Just hook it to a hose and put down your clean out valves.
I'd echo all the other comments though and get a camera down there. And find a different plumber that actually wants to solve the problem long term.
Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
Second getting a new plumber that has a camera. Any plumber without a camera isn't serious about their job. The professional ones have the camera cable marked in feet and come with an above ground device to locate where the camera head is underground...think something akin to a metal detector. With this they can see everything and pinpoint the exact place if they need to dig something up and repair it if it needs more than just a good cleanout of the sewer line.
Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
If you have a waste line cleanout outside the house this device will minimize/prevent backups into the house as long as the clean out is close to the foundation and the blockage is after it. Having lived through one too many backups I can now sleep at night without sewage nightmares. Unfortunately the plumber that told me about this is no longer in business.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/JSC-5-in-dia-P ... lsrc=aw.ds
https://www.lowes.com/pd/JSC-5-in-dia-P ... lsrc=aw.ds
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Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
Switch to Scott's toilet paper.
A buddy of mine had a rental with recurring toilet backups. A plumber suggested Scott's. He paid for it for the tenants and the problem went away.
The reason seems to be because Scott's more readily degrades into fibers in the flowing water than other brands that are softer and more voluminous.
Anyway, it's worth a try.
That's my brand!
A buddy of mine had a rental with recurring toilet backups. A plumber suggested Scott's. He paid for it for the tenants and the problem went away.
The reason seems to be because Scott's more readily degrades into fibers in the flowing water than other brands that are softer and more voluminous.
Anyway, it's worth a try.
That's my brand!
Last edited by valleyrock on Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
I, too, want to know more about the turtle shells.
However it is clear that there is a blockage or partial blockage that has not been cleared in previous attempts. Camera time, and/or new plumber time.
However it is clear that there is a blockage or partial blockage that has not been cleared in previous attempts. Camera time, and/or new plumber time.
Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
also make sure nothing else is getting flushed down the toilet besides toilet paper and the occasional turtle shell. We learned the lesson that certain products generally marketed as flushable actually can do a number on your plumbing.
Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
I asked my wife the same question. Apparently she did that for years when we lived in apartments without any issues.PeninsulaPerson wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:25 amwindaar wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:11 amThere has been no clear answer for this yet anywhere in the thread. How/why does one dump turtle shells into a bathtub? Why would one dump turtle shells into a toilet? I'd like to follow this plumbing thread but can't get by this nonsensical and unexplained premise.
+1
Have you 'fessed up to the plumbers about the turtle shells? Could knowing that make a difference in how they proceed?
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Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
That's a tease. You've gotten a lot of good advice, so come on. What is the source of the turtle shells? Pets? How many? How large are they? How often were they flushed? So many unanswered questions!
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Re: Help, sewer keeps backing up into bathtub and toilet.
Does your wife have secret martial arts training or perhaps a side hustle as a plucky investigative journalist?