Genworth Long Term Care Class action Settlement

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daehelgob48
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Genworth Long Term Care Class action Settlement

Post by daehelgob48 »

Today I received a letter with information about a settlement (Haney vs Genworth) by Genworth relating to my LTC policy. I am offered a choice to send in a form disagreeing to the terms of the settlement or do nothing and become obligated to the settlement. About 14 pages of information and directions to go here http://www.choice2longtermcareinsurance ... /Documents for more detailed information. I plan to do nothing and not expect much to benefit me from this. Lots of lawyers will get big pay days. Any thoughts? Should I do anything differently?
clydewolf
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Re: Genworth Long Term Care Class action Settlement

Post by clydewolf »

I received my letter in December 2021. Like you i decided to do nothing.
I also have heard nothing and expect nothing.
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daehelgob48
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Re: Genworth Long Term Care Class action Settlement

Post by daehelgob48 »

clydewolf wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:04 pm I received my letter in December 2021. Like you i decided to do nothing.
I also have heard nothing and expect nothing.
Its proposed all current premium paying policy holders will receive a one time $100.00 credit. The 5 named in the suit $15000.00 each. Those 5 put in the time and effort. They deserve more. Big payout by Genworth which they will recover from policy holders premium increases. So the only ones coming out ahead is the lawyers
prd1982
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Re: Genworth Long Term Care Class action Settlement

Post by prd1982 »

We got it too. Best I can tell, we will get a “do over” on the choices Genworth has previously given us. That is,
* pay the increase (what we are doing)
* pay no increase and have your maximum benefits reduced.
* stop paying and get a max benefit of the amt you have paid to Genworth.

The lawyers, on the other hand, get up to 13 million, which will reduce the amt of money Genworth has to pay claims.

I though about objecting to the settlement (which the letter gives as an option), but realize I’d be kidding myself to think anyone would read, much less care, about what I said.

Edited the maximum amount to the lawyers from 15 to 13 million.
Last edited by prd1982 on Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Stinky
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Re: Genworth Long Term Care Class action Settlement

Post by Stinky »

daehelgob48 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:24 pm Today I received a letter with information about a settlement (Haney vs Genworth) by Genworth relating to my LTC policy. I am offered a choice to send in a form disagreeing to the terms of the settlement or do nothing and become obligated to the settlement. About 14 pages of information and directions to go here http://www.choice2longtermcareinsurance ... /Documents for more detailed information. I plan to do nothing and not expect much to benefit me from this. Lots of lawyers will get big pay days. Any thoughts? Should I do anything differently?
I got the letter too.

I also plan to do nothing.

The lawyers win. The company loses. The vast majority of policyholders get squat. The American legal system at its best worst.
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
Pegasus_RPG
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Re: Genworth Long Term Care Class action Settlement

Post by Pegasus_RPG »

The best way to stop the corruption Stinky mentions is for everyone to object to the settlement. Lawyers troll for this kind of stuff and bank on little to no objection. Prove 'em wrong so this stops being a path to easy money for them!
RubyTuesday
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Re: Genworth Long Term Care Class action Settlement

Post by RubyTuesday »

Stinky wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:57 pm
daehelgob48 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:24 pm Today I received a letter with information about a settlement (Haney vs Genworth) by Genworth relating to my LTC policy. I am offered a choice to send in a form disagreeing to the terms of the settlement or do nothing and become obligated to the settlement. About 14 pages of information and directions to go here http://www.choice2longtermcareinsurance ... /Documents for more detailed information. I plan to do nothing and not expect much to benefit me from this. Lots of lawyers will get big pay days. Any thoughts? Should I do anything differently?
I got the letter too.

I also plan to do nothing.

The lawyers win. The company loses. The vast majority of policyholders get squat. The American legal system at its best worst.
I see it differently. Relatively small harms done intentionally to large numbers of people may be best addressed by class action suits. It’s IMO an important tool to protect the public against large and powerful actors.
“Doing nothing is better than being busy doing nothing.” – Lao Tzu
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nisiprius
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Re: Genworth Long Term Care Class action Settlement

Post by nisiprius »

Tangentially, it's weird that when we were shopping for long-term care insurance, circa 1998, Genworth was always mentioned as one of the "good, reputable" companies.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
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Stinky
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Re: Genworth Long Term Care Class action Settlement

Post by Stinky »

RubyTuesday wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:18 pm
Stinky wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:57 pm
daehelgob48 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:24 pm Today I received a letter with information about a settlement (Haney vs Genworth) by Genworth relating to my LTC policy. I am offered a choice to send in a form disagreeing to the terms of the settlement or do nothing and become obligated to the settlement. About 14 pages of information and directions to go here http://www.choice2longtermcareinsurance ... /Documents for more detailed information. I plan to do nothing and not expect much to benefit me from this. Lots of lawyers will get big pay days. Any thoughts? Should I do anything differently?
I got the letter too.

I also plan to do nothing.

The lawyers win. The company loses. The vast majority of policyholders get squat. The American legal system at its best worst.
I see it differently. Relatively small harms done intentionally to large numbers of people may be best addressed by class action suits. It’s IMO an important tool to protect the public against large and powerful actors.
Have you read the terms of this particular settlement? I have:

—- The lawyers get $13 million, as best as I can tell

—- Five named plaintiffs get $15,000 each, for a total of $75,000

—- All othe class members get a letter explaining future rate increase actions and their options when increases happen

Some class actions have a noble purpose and may have a good result. This one doesn’t clear that bar.

I repeat - in this case, the lawyers win. The vast majority of class members get squat.
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
prd1982
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Re: Genworth Long Term Care Class action Settlement

Post by prd1982 »

RubyTuesday wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:18 pm

I see it differently. Relatively small harms done intentionally to large numbers of people may be best addressed by class action suits. It’s IMO an important tool to protect the public against large and powerful actors.
We are not talking about class action suits in general; we are talking about this one suit. Please tell me how this settlement doesn’t hurt, rather than help, most Genworth customers. I know I’m hurt because Genworth has less money to pay claims.

Every long term insurance company under-estimated the cost, and is raising rates on the older policies, The state insurance commissions that oversee them also under-estimated the cost. In my state, the commission rejected some rate increases and reduced others, Only now is the commission approving rate increases for all the companies.

While the LTCi folks made some bad assumptions, they were also hurt by the drop in interest rates.

I wonder if we will ever hear how many people select a different option than they did originally? I suspect only people whose health has changed will change their selection.

So why did Genworth decide to settle rather than go to court? My guess is the Spectrum 7 billion dollar award.
prd1982
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Re: Genworth Long Term Care Class action Settlement

Post by prd1982 »

nisiprius wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:24 pm Tangentially, it's weird that when we were shopping for long-term care insurance, circa 1998, Genworth was always mentioned as one of the "good, reputable" companies.
Yep. And they were more expensive too.

As best I can tell, all the LTCi have the problem of losing money on older policies. The difference is that Genworth is totally dependent on LTCi. The other policy writers have much larger amounts of money in profitable insurance lines that they can handle the LTCi loses.
Rex66
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Re: Genworth Long Term Care Class action Settlement

Post by Rex66 »

prd1982 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:06 pm
nisiprius wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:24 pm Tangentially, it's weird that when we were shopping for long-term care insurance, circa 1998, Genworth was always mentioned as one of the "good, reputable" companies.
Yep. And they were more expensive too.

As best I can tell, all the LTCi have the problem of losing money on older policies. The difference is that Genworth is totally dependent on LTCi. The other policy writers have much larger amounts of money in profitable insurance lines that they can handle the LTCi loses.
thats actually why ratings have little meaning. they dont project that far into the future. Now to be fair, genworth has paid its claims and many of the policies even with the rate increases are still cheaper than if you had bought from the mutuals.

the state cant really do anything about it. These companies get actuaries to testify their methods are sound. No way the states are going to be able to afford more or better data if it existed. The only thing they could say is well you guys charged a heck of a lot less so whats that all about and they could say well thats why the contract says we can increase the rate with your approval.

the truth is straight ltci isnt what companies want to sell. they want to sell permanent insurance and annuties bc they know how to make tons of money there. They just call them hybrid policies now a days.
RubyTuesday
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Re: Genworth Long Term Care Class action Settlement

Post by RubyTuesday »

Stinky wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:30 pm
RubyTuesday wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:18 pm
Stinky wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:57 pm
daehelgob48 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:24 pm Today I received a letter with information about a settlement (Haney vs Genworth) by Genworth relating to my LTC policy. I am offered a choice to send in a form disagreeing to the terms of the settlement or do nothing and become obligated to the settlement. About 14 pages of information and directions to go here http://www.choice2longtermcareinsurance ... /Documents for more detailed information. I plan to do nothing and not expect much to benefit me from this. Lots of lawyers will get big pay days. Any thoughts? Should I do anything differently?
I got the letter too.

I also plan to do nothing.

The lawyers win. The company loses. The vast majority of policyholders get squat. The American legal system at its best worst.
I see it differently. Relatively small harms done intentionally to large numbers of people may be best addressed by class action suits. It’s IMO an important tool to protect the public against large and powerful actors.
Have you read the terms of this particular settlement? I have:

—- The lawyers get $13 million, as best as I can tell

—- Five named plaintiffs get $15,000 each, for a total of $75,000

—- All othe class members get a letter explaining future rate increase actions and their options when increases happen

Some class actions have a noble purpose and may have a good result. This one doesn’t clear that bar.

I repeat - in this case, the lawyers win. The vast majority of class members get squat.
I didn’t read the settlement, but I did read the complaint and if what’s alleged happened, the company (and execs) should be held accountable. The class is several hundred thousand large (300k+). So $15million to lawyers is $50/class member if it is 300,000.

I’m not vested in an argument for or against this specific class action and these lawyers, but if not for this suit, would the anyone be held accountable?
“Doing nothing is better than being busy doing nothing.” – Lao Tzu
prd1982
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Re: Genworth Long Term Care Class action Settlement

Post by prd1982 »

Well, to make this actionable …

Is anyone who got this letter planning to make a different choice than they have already? If so, what are you choosing, and why,
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Re: Genworth Long Term Care Class action Settlement

Post by Stinky »

prd1982 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:39 pm Well, to make this actionable …

Is anyone who got this letter planning to make a different choice than they have already? If so, what are you choosing, and why,
(crickets)
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
ConProtAttorney
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Re: Genworth Long Term Care Class action Settlement

Post by ConProtAttorney »

While I completely understand the less-than-savory reputation that many lawyers have, the folks behind this particular class action are straight shooters and this is a good deal. I am a class member who happens to speak legalese and this is, in fact, a very good deal.

Whoever said that this will result in payments of $100 is completely wrong. You can review the proposed terms in the letter (http://www.choice2longtermcareinsurance ... Letter.pdf) that will be sent out to each class member following approval of the settlement or in the terms of the proposed settlement itself. The "special election options" (which just means the different settlement options class members can pick) are here: http://www.choice2longtermcareinsurance ... ptions.pdf.

As you can see, the minimum payout is $1000, and some can elect to receive up to $10,000. Obviously this will depend on the type of policy you have and whether you'd rather take the money now or receive a different benefit (you'll get a letter outlining your options that follows the form letter linked above after the approval). While the named class members will receive $15,000, that sum is in addition to their own individual settlements under the class action. They put in a lot of time to make this happen for all of us, so they certainly deserve a little bit extra.

Some advice for everyone:
1. Per the current terms of the settlement, you only have 90 days to select your settlement after you receive the letter outlining your options. Do not sleep on this. If you miss this deadline, you most likely won't get anything.
2. Final approval is currently scheduled for November 17, 2022. Barring any setbacks it will be approved on that day and you should receive letters within the following few months. A website might also be set up to handle claims so continue monitoring http://www.choice2longtermcareinsurancesettlement.com/ for any updates.
3. If a lawyer offers to process your claim in exchange for the fee tell them to go screw themselves. The process is easy and free and you do not need an attorney to make a claim.

Are the lawyers also making a lot of money off of this? Absolutely. But without them, we would be getting nothing. While we could all technically sue on our own behalf and bring the same arguments that have been (successfully) raised here, these are called "negative value cases," which just means that the reward that one person would get for bringing the case isn't enough to pay the legal expenses that would be necessary to prevail. However, if those claims are aggregated, their value is more than enough to justify a reputable attorney's attention.

So long as the government consumer protection officers (e.g. California AG's office, Federal Trade Commission, Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, etc.), we are unfortunately trapped in a system where it falls to private attorneys to hold corporations accountable. These attorneys need to make money, and so they won't take cases unless they're financially viable. While some attorneys pursue these aims ethically and righteously, many others are just in it to make a quick buck. This case is incredibly technical and has been brought by several prominent consumer firms. Believe me, these are not the types of lawyers that are in it for the wrong reasons.
prd1982
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Re: Genworth Long Term Care Class action Settlement

Post by prd1982 »

ConProtAttorney wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 7:37 pm Are the lawyers also making a lot of money off of this? Absolutely. But without them, we would be getting nothing.
I see me losing, not getting money from this lawsuit. The payout and the cost of defending the suit has to come from Genworth. That means Genworth has less money to pay claims. So it must raise rates even more. So please explain how the policy holders benefit.
ConProtAttorney
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Re: Genworth Long Term Care Class action Settlement

Post by ConProtAttorney »

You're welcome to see things however you want, but Genworth's revenue is about $1.8 billion and the attorneys' fees in this case are...$13 million. Less than 1% of a single year of revenue. If you want to convince yourself that this is going to be the reason that rates will inevitably go up (as opposed to changing insurance market conditions, economic fluctuations, or good ol' corporate greed) then I certainly won't stop you. But it's also worth noting that Genworth's literal job is to forecast risks. They have almost certainly factored the likelihood of an adverse court judgment at some point into their overall financial picture because they would be stupid not to. They get sued all the time and sometimes they're going to lose.

Finally, and most importantly, our rates were already going up. We just weren't being properly informed about the changes. That's the entire point of this lawsuit. At least in this world we get some sort of financial compensation - very healthy financial compensation as it turns out.

But hey, if you really feel so strongly about it, feel free to decline your settlement and leave the money with Genworth! :happy
prd1982
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Re: Genworth Long Term Care Class action Settlement

Post by prd1982 »

ConProtAttorney,

Up until the previous Genworth rate increase request, my state’s insurance commission has reduced or rejected every one of their proposals.

You still haven’t explained how I benefit from this settlement. I just see Genworth having less money for claims. I guess you could say the settlement cost comes from the share holders. The problem is that the stock price and dividends are poor to start with. And I never expect the executives to take the hit.

Yes I expect Genworth to raise rates a lot.
ConProtAttorney
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Re: Genworth Long Term Care Class action Settlement

Post by ConProtAttorney »

If you are a member of the class then, as I explained above, you could receive between $1,000 and $10,000 depending on the nature of your policy and what settlement option you elect to receive. That would be how you benefit.

If you are not a member of the class, then of course you won't benefit from your insurance carrier's failure to follow the law.
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