With a brokerage account, you also have to accept (or set up) e-delivery of documents. No paper mailings if you want to avoid the fee.
Details here: https://investor.vanguard.com/client-be ... count-fees
Regards,
With a brokerage account, you also have to accept (or set up) e-delivery of documents. No paper mailings if you want to avoid the fee.
I'm feeling the same way. I've been with Vanguard for decades. I first began reading Bogle's articles and books in the 1980s. I've spread Jack's advice to anyone who would listen, and recommended Vanguard too many times to count.surfinagin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:47 pmI gave the rep feedback on my perspective regarding Vanguard's mismanagement of this whole thing to send up the chain.exodusNH wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:40 pmThey definitely are short staffed, but they complicated matters by announcing the fee out of the blue 6 weeks ago.surfinagin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:38 pm I have Limited Agent Authorization for an elderly relative. On 9/06, found no link/tab when we logged onto their account to make this change. Called Vanguard, and told by rep that b/c it's an "inactive account" (I do their transactions from mine) the online option wasn't provided. OK then.
They said the req'd forms they were mailing would be received within 5 days. Now 16 days later: called again and was told Vanguard is backed-up with many form requests, and no projection for when they will be received. But don't worry, if the forms aren't provided in time to avoid the $20/fund acct service fee deadline, then a note would be added to their acct and they won't have to pay the fee.
Vanguard staffing must be cut to the bone when they can't put 2 blank forms in an envelope and mail them within 2 weeks, or even project when they will manage to accomplish this.
Been with Vanguard a long time, but combined with previous issues this has me seriously considering transferring our accts out.
I don't think anybody would recommend TIAA over fidelity or Schwab.sajohnson wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:19 pmI'm feeling the same way. I've been with Vanguard for decades. I first began reading Bogle's articles and books in the 1980s. I've spread Jack's advice to anyone who would listen, and recommended Vanguard too many times to count.surfinagin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:47 pmI gave the rep feedback on my perspective regarding Vanguard's mismanagement of this whole thing to send up the chain.exodusNH wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:40 pmThey definitely are short staffed, but they complicated matters by announcing the fee out of the blue 6 weeks ago.surfinagin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:38 pm I have Limited Agent Authorization for an elderly relative. On 9/06, found no link/tab when we logged onto their account to make this change. Called Vanguard, and told by rep that b/c it's an "inactive account" (I do their transactions from mine) the online option wasn't provided. OK then.
They said the req'd forms they were mailing would be received within 5 days. Now 16 days later: called again and was told Vanguard is backed-up with many form requests, and no projection for when they will be received. But don't worry, if the forms aren't provided in time to avoid the $20/fund acct service fee deadline, then a note would be added to their acct and they won't have to pay the fee.
Vanguard staffing must be cut to the bone when they can't put 2 blank forms in an envelope and mail them within 2 weeks, or even project when they will manage to accomplish this.
Been with Vanguard a long time, but combined with previous issues this has me seriously considering transferring our accts out.
The pending $20/account fees would upset Bogle a great deal. I get all of the reasons why Vanguard wants customers to transition to brokerage accounts, but it is primarily for Vanguard's benefit (and indirectly, the investors). My wife and I have no need to make the switch, but several months ago, after receiving many very laid back/low key emails, I attempted to complete the transition. I very quickly ran into problems and gave up.
There was no mention of any fees -- which for us will be at least $60. In fact, my impression from the tone of the earlier emails was that investors had the *option* to transition their accounts but that if they did not, Vanguard would eventually do it. I know now that is not the case, but those initial emails made it sound that way: "Don't sweat it dude! Vanguard has ya covered..."
More recently, Vanguard is now adamant that all customers must switch or pay fees. If they are that worried about it, but they can't or won't do the transfer themselves (with permission) they should make it a simple process for investors -- a few clicks. As it is, it's a huge PITA for many people, and when you call customer service you are told that there is an almost 1 hour wait time. The hold music is like an ice pick in your ear. In my case at least, there was no call back option.
There is no way I'm going to pay a $60/year fee for something that I have no control over.
I hear TIAA is pretty good. Any other suggestions?
Part of the attraction for some is that they have physical offices in many areas. Schwab has a full service office in my small town (tbf, the county is quite wealthy). Fidelity has offices only an hour away. Not something I need but some like face to face service — at least as a backstop if the call centers get overwhelmed.sajohnson wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:43 am Shortening the above post:
"There is no way I'm going to pay a $60/year fee for something that I have no control over.
I hear TIAA is pretty good. Any other suggestions?"
~
"I don't think anybody would recommend TIAA over fidelity or Schwab."
~
OK. What about, say, T. Rowe?
I haven't looked into any other companies because until the other day I had planned to continue with Vanguard for the rest of my life.
I know in the past TIAA-CREF had a very good rep, but so do the others. What is it about Fidelity and Schwab that make them stand out?
Would love to hear the ads and warts for all three of them, thanksjebmke wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:23 amPart of the attraction for some is that they have physical offices in many areas. Schwab has a full service office in my small town (tbf, the county is quite wealthy). Fidelity has offices only an hour away. Not something I need but some like face to face service — at least as a backstop if the call centers get overwhelmed.sajohnson wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:43 am Shortening the above post:
"There is no way I'm going to pay a $60/year fee for something that I have no control over.
I hear TIAA is pretty good. Any other suggestions?"
~
"I don't think anybody would recommend TIAA over fidelity or Schwab."
~
OK. What about, say, T. Rowe?
I haven't looked into any other companies because until the other day I had planned to continue with Vanguard for the rest of my life.
I know in the past TIAA-CREF had a very good rep, but so do the others. What is it about Fidelity and Schwab that make them stand out?
I’ve used them all. Fidelity, Schwab and now VG. They each have their advantages and warts.
That's good to hear!Barkingsparrow wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:17 am I'm almost done with the process of moving my Money Market mutual fund over to a brokerage account, the checkbook is on the way. It was slightly painful to do this, as I had to go through a few hoops due to a different joint ownership scenario. I emailed Vanguard support twice, and did get prompt responses both time - next day.
So now I'm 100% moved to brokerage.
I just hit the "Message" icon that shows up on the main Account view screen upper right? Nothing special.sajohnson wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:22 pmThat's good to hear!Barkingsparrow wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:17 am I emailed Vanguard support twice, and did get prompt responses both time - next day.
I've sent 2 emails to 2 different addresses and received no replies.
Would you mind sharing the email address you used?
And if you don't have that, click on "upload document". That link also allows secure messaging, whether or not you have a document to upload.Barkingsparrow wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:28 pmI just hit the "Message" icon that shows up on the main Account view screen upper right? Nothing special.sajohnson wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:22 pmThat's good to hear!Barkingsparrow wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:17 am I emailed Vanguard support twice, and did get prompt responses both time - next day.
I've sent 2 emails to 2 different addresses and received no replies.
Would you mind sharing the email address you used?
At the risk of seeming dense, are you referring to the "Message center" -- with an 'inbox' and 'sent mail'?Barkingsparrow wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:28 pmI just hit the "Message" icon that shows up on the main Account view screen upper right? Nothing special.sajohnson wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:22 pmThat's good to hear!Barkingsparrow wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:17 am I emailed Vanguard support twice, and did get prompt responses both time - next day.
I've sent 2 emails to 2 different addresses and received no replies.
Would you mind sharing the email address you used?
There are email addresses listed, but they do not seem to be intended for individual investors to use.Cheez-It Guy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:17 pm To my knowledge, sending an email to a traditional email address has never been an option with Vanguard, so this isn't really something new or related to recent website changes.
This is Vanguard marketing mis-information and one of the things that really annoyed me about Vanguard (them giving dishonest information to get you to switch). With fund ownership you did not need SIPC protection since there was not a brokerage involved holding your funds.Investment101 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:13 pm
For the new brokerage there is actually SIPC up to 500k, for the old MF account there wasn't any SIPC , I didn't know that and I didn't even know about SIPC , I googled real quick I think it's to protect us from like "Madoff" or if Vanguard goes bankrupt etc. That's pretty good and another reason to switch to new platform with the SIPC .
It certainly would be better to come right out and put a stake in the ground on obsoleting the old platform.SmileyFace wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:19 amThis is Vanguard marketing mis-information and one of the things that really annoyed me about Vanguard (them giving dishonest information to get you to switch). With fund ownership you did not need SIPC protection since there was not a brokerage involved holding your funds.Investment101 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:13 pm
For the new brokerage there is actually SIPC up to 500k, for the old MF account there wasn't any SIPC , I didn't know that and I didn't even know about SIPC , I googled real quick I think it's to protect us from like "Madoff" or if Vanguard goes bankrupt etc. That's pretty good and another reason to switch to new platform with the SIPC .
There are lots of wiki articles to get informed on various things - you should read up there first. For SIPC:
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/SIPC_pr ... tual_funds
Before you were holding your funds directly. Now your funds are held by VBS - thus the need to be protected against them. This new ownership arrangement was in those Ts and Cs you mentioned skimming through.
A few years ago I would get email from my Flagship rep -- regular email from a Vanguard domain. Nothing confidential but nonetheless I asked to be removed from all emails that are not required by law. So far they have abided by that.Cheez-It Guy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:04 pm Correct, I think the addresses are not for individual investors for account-related correspondence. Out of curiosity, what email address for Vanguard did you attempt to use?
Thank you Barkingsparrow.Barkingsparrow wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:41 am
Sorry, but that's all I have. When I hit the "Account Overview" from the top level Portfolio pull down, I see an envelope icon, which takes me to the Message Center and I just hit the Compose button.
If you have less than $1M of Vanguard assets and would like to avoid a $20 per mutual fund fee in each account, yes, you need to switch to the brokerage account and accept electronic statements. You could also transfer your funds to a new brokerage, such as Fidelity or Schwab.
You don't need to convert your funds. You need to move your mutual funds to their brokerage platform. I just wanted to clarify that you don't need to switch to ETFs.
Vanguard has two types of accounts: mutual fund accounts and brokerage accounts. They are on different platforms (computer systems). Since they are getting rid of the old mutual fund platform, they want everyone to “transition” their accounts to the brokerage account platform. This has been going on about five years. To “encourage” those who have not yet moved to brokerage accounts, they are implementing fees on the mutual fund platform.
If you hold mutual funds in a brokerage account, these fees don't apply to you. These fees apply to mutual funds held in a mutual fund platform at Vanguard.billg2100 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:32 am I received this email and am looking to avoid the fees. If I sell my mutual funds and re-buy the identical ETF inside my brokerage account, will I run foul of the wash sale rule? For example converting from VEMAX to VWO. I'm assuming I would need to wait 31 days between sell and buy orders since they are nearly identical.
You don’t have to sell your mutual funds, you have to convert from the old mutual fund platform to the new brokerage platform. You can hold mutual funds on each, but you can only hold ETF’s and stocks on the new brokerage platform.billg2100 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:32 am I received this email and am looking to avoid the fees. If I sell my mutual funds and re-buy the identical ETF inside my brokerage account, will I run foul of the wash sale rule? For example converting from VEMAX to VWO. I'm assuming I would need to wait 31 days between sell and buy orders since they are nearly identical.
There are two issues here:billg2100 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:32 am If I sell my mutual funds and re-buy the identical ETF inside my brokerage account, will I run foul of the wash sale rule? For example converting from VEMAX to VWO. I'm assuming I would need to wait 31 days between sell and buy orders since they are nearly identical.
You can hold mutual funds on the brokerage platform. If you have less than $1M of Vanguard assets, you will pay a single $20 fee per year if you want printed statements or $0 if you opt-in to electronic ones.billg2100 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:32 am I received this email and am looking to avoid the fees. If I sell my mutual funds and re-buy the identical ETF inside my brokerage account, will I run foul of the wash sale rule? For example converting from VEMAX to VWO. I'm assuming I would need to wait 31 days between sell and buy orders since they are nearly identical.
I've never seen a "conversion" option that would avert a wash sale.Duckie wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:42 pmThere are two issues here:billg2100 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:32 am If I sell my mutual funds and re-buy the identical ETF inside my brokerage account, will I run foul of the wash sale rule? For example converting from VEMAX to VWO. I'm assuming I would need to wait 31 days between sell and buy orders since they are nearly identical.
If you choose to convert VEMAX to VWO that is not a sale, that is a conversion...
Can't be done online. If you want to convert to ETFs you need to call.rossington wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:13 amI've never seen a "conversion" option that would avert a wash sale.Duckie wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:42 pmThere are two issues here:billg2100 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:32 am If I sell my mutual funds and re-buy the identical ETF inside my brokerage account, will I run foul of the wash sale rule? For example converting from VEMAX to VWO. I'm assuming I would need to wait 31 days between sell and buy orders since they are nearly identical.
If you choose to convert VEMAX to VWO that is not a sale, that is a conversion...
Only "Buy or Sell" or "Exchange Between Vanguard Funds" (in this option you are still selling and buying and it is a taxable event too).
Can you clarify?
Thanks.
Also, they won't do the conversion if the fund is in the middle of distributions. (What I did.) They'll delay the conversion until the distributions are completed. However, that's on their end. You only need to call them once.LadyGeek wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:11 am Tip: To get to the right person, say "stock trade" when the bot asks what you're calling about. You need the trading reps. The first rep I spoke with said that my request was an "advanced trade" and needed escalation. I accidentally got cut-off after I was finished speaking with a second rep. Getting to the trade rep was the right person when I called back.
Yes, I did. Phone post fail. Thank you. Edited.
Vanguard doesn't immediately kick you out of a fund if it drops below the minimum.cib1003 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:27 pm It's been a crazy month and this hasn't been a priority. Just one fund that with recent declines is now below the minimum investment threshold. We don't need another brokerage account, and even if I did the transition I wonder if it would go through fast enough.
So the question is whether the fee will result in liquidation of the fund and them mailing a check. If so, I'd rather sell it today so it can be quickly reinvested elsewhere (presumably after the fee if settlement takes till next week). Thoughts? Thanks!