New fee for Vanguard mutual [and brokerage accounts - July 2023 updates]

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nedsaid
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by nedsaid »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:41 pm
nedsaid wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:27 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:44 am
dickyboy wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:50 am
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:55 pm It's my feeling that the discussion about people in the financial industry -- while valid and obviously of concern to those affected -- is a red herring in the overall discussion. I really wonder what kind of percentage of the likely millions of account holders who still have not transitioned are so affected? I think others used the legitimate issue some have as a way to justify inaction until action was forced.
For whatever reason your posts always give me the impression that you're a Vanguard employee.
You're certainly not the first person to say that, but I assure you I'm not. I'm just a Vanguard client with a rational thought process.

I'd assume many frontline Vanguard employees don't even like Vanguard and certainly wouldn't spend their free time posting in defense of it. That's led some to conclude I'm Tim Buckley himself. You'll never know. . .
Hi Tim:

If I have any comments about Vanguard, I now know where to direct them. :wink:
Directly to the trash bin, where all corporate feedback goes!
LOL!!! Better to spend millions on useless consultants rather than listen to employees and customers.
A fool and his money are good for business.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by jebmke »

billaster wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:36 pm
rob wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:54 am Your employer also gets access to your full financial information down to the penny...
Seriously, you are worried about your boss pawing through thousands of monthly brokerage statements? The statements are automatically sent to your company so it's not like it is a big time sucking burden. In fact most brokers already have agreements set up with financial employers so that when you apply for an account, they automatically start sending monthly statements. You have to do nothing.
In my last job before I retired I had to disclose my complete financials publicly in many countries. All of my employees in Europe could see what I made and what my assets were. Surprisingly, nobody cares. Once you realize that, it becomes less of an issue.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
or4cle
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by or4cle »

In effort to reduce tax reporting paperwork and only get one set of documents from one platform, I thought I read (in another thread) it was preferable to transition at the beginning of the year (i.e. Jan 1st).

Does anyone have any recommendations / knowledge around this?
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by jebmke »

or4cle wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:11 pm In effort to reduce tax reporting paperwork and only get one set of documents from one platform, I thought I read (in another thread) it was preferable to transition at the beginning of the year (i.e. Jan 1st).

Does anyone have any recommendations / knowledge around this?
That would be ideal; right after 1/1 -- I'd wait a couple of days. Funds that pay dividends on Dec 31 in a MF account get reported on the December statement. Same funds (bond funds) report the December dividend on the January statement but these get reported on the 1099-Div for the just ended year. So for a brokerage, there is often a reconciling entry in January/December time frame to reconcile the regular statement with the tax statements (something everyone should do!).
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
quietseas
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by quietseas »

or4cle wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:11 pm In effort to reduce tax reporting paperwork and only get one set of documents from one platform, I thought I read (in another thread) it was preferable to transition at the beginning of the year (i.e. Jan 1st).

Does anyone have any recommendations / knowledge around this?
It's a minor point, given Vanguard plans to start charging fees as early as October I wouldn't worry about these statement issue in 2022. It's not at all hard to enter data from two statements. It's just data entry into the tax software (or handing two statements to your preparer if he/she does your taxes).
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

or4cle wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:11 pm In effort to reduce tax reporting paperwork and only get one set of documents from one platform, I thought I read (in another thread) it was preferable to transition at the beginning of the year (i.e. Jan 1st).

Does anyone have any recommendations / knowledge around this?
That was a good idea before the announcement of fees to take effect in the current tax year. The window for using that strategy free of charge is now closed. So if you want to pay a fee just to have a single set of 1099s in January, have at it. Or convert before the deadline, avoid the fee, and just handle two 1099s for one year. It's not a big deal. If you have any taxable investments outside of Vanguard or even enough bank interest on cash, you're already dealing with multiple 1099s. I changed in the middle of the year -- about 7 years ago. I survived and in fact thrived!
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rob
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by rob »

billaster wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:36 pm
rob wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:54 am Your employer also gets access to your full financial information down to the penny...
Seriously, you are worried about your boss pawing through thousands of monthly brokerage statements? The statements are automatically sent to your company so it's not like it is a big time sucking burden. In fact most brokers already have agreements set up with financial employers so that when you apply for an account, they automatically start sending monthly statements. You have to do nothing.
Correct - One of my issues is that I do not want my boss to know my financial position for good or bad. I don't care about "thousands", only one and I care about scale been non-private not activity. I don't think that is unwarranted. I have worked at one place where something similar was known about a particular person and make no mistake it had a impact on their career. That whole it's not shared etc is only true in a narrow defn....

I accept that the company needs to know I'm not trading on private info or against their interests - I'm not pushing against the compliance needs. A MF non-brokerage account does that function very well while keeping my financial info private. I resent having to give up privacy or continue to use the High fee Vanguard option (an xfer to another MF only vendor is not possible without large cap gains). It's not remotely close to an extra $20 a year...

If Vanguard increased annual fees by 1/3 there would be a revolt here yet I'm been told that scenario is minor....

Edit: Also no clue what you mean by auto happening and nothing for me to do... Most company require that they name the brokerage house you use.... I have to move all the accounts to their choice (or try and fight to get mine added - which is usually a non-starter).
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jebmke
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by jebmke »

How many funds do you have? Or, perhaps another way to ask, what would be the total fee in bp for your total portfolio?
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

rob wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:25 pm
billaster wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:36 pm
rob wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:54 am Your employer also gets access to your full financial information down to the penny...
Seriously, you are worried about your boss pawing through thousands of monthly brokerage statements? The statements are automatically sent to your company so it's not like it is a big time sucking burden. In fact most brokers already have agreements set up with financial employers so that when you apply for an account, they automatically start sending monthly statements. You have to do nothing.
Correct - One of my issues is that I do not want my boss to know my financial position for good or bad. I don't care about "thousands", only one and I care about scale been non-private not activity. I don't think that is unwarranted. I have worked at one place where something similar was known about a particular person and make no mistake it had a impact on their career. That whole it's not shared etc is only true in a narrow defn....

I accept that the company needs to know I'm not trading on private info or against their interests - I'm not pushing against the compliance needs. A MF non-brokerage account does that function very well while keeping my financial info private. I resent having to give up privacy or continue to use the High fee Vanguard option (an xfer to another MF only vendor is not possible without large cap gains). It's not remotely close to an extra $20 a year...

If Vanguard increased annual fees by 1/3 there would be a revolt here yet I'm been told that scenario is minor....

Edit: Also no clue what you mean by auto happening and nothing for me to do... Most company require that they name the brokerage house you use.... I have to move all the accounts to their choice (or try and fight to get mine added - which is usually a non-starter).
Can you transfer your funds in-kind?

Broken Man 1999
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by rob »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:56 pm Can you transfer your funds in-kind?
Not to another vendor for MF only on the taxable acct - at least not that I ever seen. I can sell everything in tax deferred and open a MF only acct using Fido funds and transfer as cash but would prefer not to be out of the market. Also looking to see if I could MAYBE move some of the IRA's to my 401K but that would leave my spouses stuff an issue as her 403B is already a high cost Vanguard acct ($60/year/fund).

The real issue is that I have @45% of my savings in taxable and selling those is a no-go due to taxable gains. If there were no gains, I would be gone from Vanguard some time ago.

In kind: To a different brokerage sure but then I have a brokerage acct and I fall into the same issue..... If I do move to a brokerage to avoid the high fee Vanguard option then it will be to the least worst brokerage option the employer currently accepts and under no scenario VBS.
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BigJohn
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by BigJohn »

rob wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:25 pm
billaster wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:36 pm
rob wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:54 am Your employer also gets access to your full financial information down to the penny...
Seriously, you are worried about your boss pawing through thousands of monthly brokerage statements? The statements are automatically sent to your company so it's not like it is a big time sucking burden. In fact most brokers already have agreements set up with financial employers so that when you apply for an account, they automatically start sending monthly statements. You have to do nothing.
Correct - One of my issues is that I do not want my boss to know my financial position for good or bad. I don't care about "thousands", only one and I care about scale been non-private not activity. I don't think that is unwarranted. I have worked at one place where something similar was known about a particular person and make no mistake it had a impact on their career. That whole it's not shared etc is only true in a narrow defn....

I accept that the company needs to know I'm not trading on private info or against their interests - I'm not pushing against the compliance needs. A MF non-brokerage account does that function very well while keeping my financial info private. I resent having to give up privacy or continue to use the High fee Vanguard option (an xfer to another MF only vendor is not possible without large cap gains). It's not remotely close to an extra $20 a year...

If Vanguard increased annual fees by 1/3 there would be a revolt here yet I'm been told that scenario is minor....

Edit: Also no clue what you mean by auto happening and nothing for me to do... Most company require that they name the brokerage house you use.... I have to move all the accounts to their choice (or try and fight to get mine added - which is usually a non-starter).
I have no experience with these regulations but it’s obviously not a minor scenario in terms of impact to you. However, look at it from VGs business perspective. If you were the CEO and accountable to ALL fund holders, could you justify keeping an entire software platform maintained and viable for a very small minority of fund holders?

This is no different than a home insurance company deciding to drop areas or coverages that no longer make business sense or a drug insurance company changing its formulary. Both of these happen with some regularity and cause customers to have to make difficult and sometimes expensive decisions.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

I see.

Unfortunately the only constant in life is change.

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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by rob »

jebmke wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:32 pm How many funds do you have? Or, perhaps another way to ask, what would be the total fee in bp for your total portfolio?
I don't want to directly answer with a reversible nbr BUT... it increases my total portfolio fees by @30% per year. Due to numerous reasons I'm not going into, there are a reasonable nbr of accounts each with some funds, so overall a lot of "account/fund" pairs and this fee is per account per fund....

It's hardly active mgt fee territory but it's a big hit to me from the "low cost leader".
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by jebmke »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:32 pm I see.

Unfortunately the only constant in life is change.

Broken Man 1999
My father told me that, I think. He also didn't tolerate whining. "If you can't do something about it, move along." "Life isn't fair -- don't expect it to be." But one of his first jobs out of college was jumping out of airplanes while people were shooting at him. So, he had a way of prioritizing things.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by jebmke »

rob wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:39 pm
jebmke wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:32 pm How many funds do you have? Or, perhaps another way to ask, what would be the total fee in bp for your total portfolio?
I don't want to directly answer with a reversible nbr BUT... it increases my total portfolio fees by @30% per year. Due to numerous reasons I'm not going into, there are a reasonable nbr of accounts each with some funds, so overall a lot of "account/fund" pairs and this fee is per account per fund....

It's hardly active mgt fee territory but it's a big hit to me from the "low cost leader".
Not surprised that VG is targeting smaller accounts. My company used to do the same; we also gave them a long notice when we dropped product lines.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

What has Vanguard done for me LATELY?!

Sure, they and their products helped set me on a path to lifetime financial success and changed an entire industry for the better, but then they had the gall to change the web GUI and ask me nicely for almost a decade to please change account types to facilitate lower-cost service for all before eventually announcing a completely reasonable fee structure. I don't know about anyone else, but I'll never do business with them again as long as I live. That will show this multi-trillion dollar asset manager who calls the shots!
Last edited by Cheez-It Guy on Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

jebmke wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:40 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:32 pm I see.

Unfortunately the only constant in life is change.

Broken Man 1999
My father told me that, I think. He also didn't tolerate whining. "If you can't do something about it, move along." "Life isn't fair -- don't expect it to be." But one of his first jobs out of college was jumping out of airplanes while people were shooting at him. So, he had a way of prioritizing things.
My father's trigger word was CAN'T. Pity the fool who dared utter it in his presence!

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go." - Mark Twain
quietseas
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by quietseas »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:52 pm
jebmke wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:40 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:32 pm I see.

Unfortunately the only constant in life is change.

Broken Man 1999
My father told me that, I think. He also didn't tolerate whining. "If you can't do something about it, move along." "Life isn't fair -- don't expect it to be." But one of his first jobs out of college was jumping out of airplanes while people were shooting at him. So, he had a way of prioritizing things.
My father's trigger word was CAN'T. Pity the fool who dared utter it in his presence!

Broken Man 1999
I once had a boss who announced in a large meeting that "We are AmeriCANs not AmeriCANT's". You would have had to have been there I think but it sounds like your father would have jumped on his chair and applauded.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by rob »

BigJohn wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:28 pm However, look at it from VGs business perspective. If you were the CEO and accountable to ALL fund holders, could you justify keeping an entire software platform maintained and viable for a very small minority of fund holders?
Absolutely I could... Happens every day for various business reasons.

eg. The vast majority of current customers are not currently using RMD's - yet we all pay for those features in the platform. Why?? I'm sure there are large savings by cutting out all those cals, auto withdraws, tax reporting, email & notices and support costs related to such a complex topic only used by the minority.

I accept that it's a value add to the platform and is high value to a minority of financial positions even though I'm not benefiting but it is costing me. Believe me that most of the IT effort is spent on minority and lesser edge cases...
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien
BigJohn
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by BigJohn »

rob wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:00 pm
BigJohn wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:28 pm However, look at it from VGs business perspective. If you were the CEO and accountable to ALL fund holders, could you justify keeping an entire software platform maintained and viable for a very small minority of fund holders?
Absolutely I could... Happens every day for various business reasons.

eg. The vast majority of current customers are not currently using RMD's - yet we all pay for those features in the platform. Why?? I'm sure there are large savings by cutting out all those cals, auto withdraws, tax reporting, email & notices and support costs related to such a complex topic only used by the minority.

I accept that it's a value add to the platform and is high value to a minority of financial positions even though I'm not benefiting but it is costing me. Believe me that most of the IT effort is spent on minority and lesser edge cases...
I understand it’s costing you just as it costs those in my other examples. But, I’m going to guess that there are a lot more people using RMDs than are affected by these regulations. That aside, what value added for VG do you see in keeping an old legacy MF only platform? If it was a competitive advantage, wouldn’t others offer or be adding this capability?
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by billaster »

rob wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:39 pm I don't want to directly answer with a reversible nbr BUT... it increases my total portfolio fees by @30% per year.
So your average expense ratio might go from 4 basis points to an effective 5.2 basis points? Oh, the humanity! Only you can decide how important that is to you vs switching to the brokerage.

The good news is that, at least for now, the $20 fee is a fixed expense. So if your portfolio value doubles, your effective expense ratio declines to 4.6 basis points.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

quietseas wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:57 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:52 pm
jebmke wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:40 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:32 pm I see.

Unfortunately the only constant in life is change.

Broken Man 1999
My father told me that, I think. He also didn't tolerate whining. "If you can't do something about it, move along." "Life isn't fair -- don't expect it to be." But one of his first jobs out of college was jumping out of airplanes while people were shooting at him. So, he had a way of prioritizing things.
My father's trigger word was CAN'T. Pity the fool who dared utter it in his presence!

Broken Man 1999
I once had a boss who announced in a large meeting that "We are AmeriCANs not AmeriCANT's". You would have had to have been there I think but it sounds like your father would have jumped on his chair and applauded.
Depending on the context and the personalities of my peer group, I might well have been stifling laughter. Reminds me of a meeting where the leader said, "Guys, we gotta reach for the stars this year so we can grab the moon!" A colleague said as an aside afterward, "I don't think he realizes how far away stars are." Oh well.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

quietseas wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:57 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:52 pm
jebmke wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:40 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:32 pm I see.

Unfortunately the only constant in life is change.

Broken Man 1999
My father told me that, I think. He also didn't tolerate whining. "If you can't do something about it, move along." "Life isn't fair -- don't expect it to be." But one of his first jobs out of college was jumping out of airplanes while people were shooting at him. So, he had a way of prioritizing things.
My father's trigger word was CAN'T. Pity the fool who dared utter it in his presence!

Broken Man 1999
I once had a boss who announced in a large meeting that "We are AmeriCANs not AmeriCANT's". You would have had to have been there I think but it sounds like your father would have jumped on his chair and applauded.
Probably. The older I got, the smarter he got. Funny how that works.

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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Frobie »

My apologies as I admit that I haven’t read the entirety of this thread before posting.

I’ve been trying to convert my conventional mutual fund accounts to brokerage for a few days. I’ve tried on multiple devices and operating systems and at different times of the day and night, but I always get a message saying, “Sorry, something went wrong. Please try again later.”

There’s no reason I’m aware of that this should be complicated. Is it just me? Any suggestions other than keep at it?

Haven’t had to call Vanguard in maybe 20-ish years and would like to keep the streak going if possible. :happy
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by exodusNH »

Frobie wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:24 pm My apologies as I admit that I haven’t read the entirety of this thread before posting.

I’ve been trying to convert my conventional mutual fund accounts to brokerage for a few days. I’ve tried on multiple devices and operating systems and at different times of the day and night, but I always get a message saying, “Sorry, something went wrong. Please try again later.”

There’s no reason I’m aware of that this should be complicated. Is it just me? Any suggestions other than keep at it?

Haven’t had to call Vanguard in maybe 20-ish years and would like to keep the streak going if possible. :happy
Based on earlier comments, if you have your account enabled for direct deposit or have automated anything configured, that will prevent you from converting until you turn those off.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Frobie »

That’s probably it. Thank you so much—you likely saved me at least a couple hours of searching and frustration.

Much obliged.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Paul69 »

I've been reading this thread from the first day and have not received the email. I'm already on the brokerage account, so thought I was free and clear. When I got my mail yesterday from my PO Box there was five pieces of mail from Vanguard (one for each account), all five conveyed that unless I went paperless I would be charged the $20 per account.

My takeaway is that Vanguard not only wants all to switch from MF to the brokerage, but also to go paperless. It would be a significant amount of money to keep the paper, so went paperless on all except the tax forms. Vanguard noted those could still be paper and not incur the charge.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

Good call!
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Nate79 »

rob wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:54 am
Nate79 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:22 am....because they don't apply or are very minor details?....
So your prepared to have your employer force you to change brokerage companies as they choose - potentially forcing you to change investment vehicles while mostly charging full fees due to the brokerage houses commonly used (yes I know some have etrade and get a better deal but most are ML or alike). Your employer also gets access to your full financial information down to the penny...

These people are generally not a broker, analyst or CEO etc. that expects to be restricted - it's almost anyone that happens to work for a certain segments of companies in the world regardless of their profession. Spare me the "they signed up for it" speech - most don't have the ability to curate their living and pick and choose employers.

This is NOT anyone's reasonable definition of minor; The whole thread characterizing this as "minor" is disingenuous. Doesn't apply to you in your current job? - great but does not change the fact this is hardly trivial for those affected. It might also occur in your future roles.
I consider this a minor issue to a vast majority of people. I don't consider it Vanguards problem to list all the differences between the two platforms, especially ones that don't impact most people. They are pushing people to move because they are shutting down the old platform. It's not their problem if someone's employer has requirements that someone doesn't like.

Vanguard is supposed to be cost neutral. They should charge the real cost to maintain the old platform or just shut it down.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Munir »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:56 pm Good call!
Why? :happy
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Munir »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:44 pm What has Vanguard done for me LATELY?!

Sure, they and their products helped set me on a path to lifetime financial success and changed an entire industry for the better, but then they had the gall to change the web GUI and ask me nicely for almost a decade to please change account types to facilitate lower-cost service for all before eventually announcing a completely reasonable fee structure. I'll don't know about anyone else, but I'll never do business with them again as long as I live. That will show this multi-trillion dollar asset manager who calls the shots!
Good summary.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

Munir wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:12 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:56 pm Good call!
Why? :happy
In my opinion, getting paper copies of annual tax statements is the one scenario where paper statements make sense for some people, so I found it a good call both that this individual decided they could live without the costly and wasteful paper statements for everything else, and also that Vanguard bent a little and allowed opting for paper tax documents to still be seen as in compliance to avoid the fee.

I'm still working on my parents regarding paper statements for certain things. When I ask them why they need them, they really can't give me an answer, but it's routine, and they prefer it. However, fees are the stronger motivator, as every time a paper document option has carried a fee, they've decided they can live without it. Interesting how that works. . .
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by jebmke »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:19 pm
Munir wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:12 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:56 pm Good call!
Why? :happy
In my opinion, getting paper copies of annual tax statements is the one scenario where paper statements make sense for some people, so I found it a good call both that this individual decided they could live without the costly and wasteful paper statements for everything else, and also that Vanguard bent a little and allowed opting for paper tax documents to still be seen as in compliance to avoid the fee.

I'm still working on my parents regarding paper statements for certain things. When I ask them why they need them, they really can't give me an answer, but it's routine, and they prefer it. However, fees are the stronger motivator, as every time a paper document option has carried a fee, they've decided they can live without it. Interesting how that works. . .
And having all that info coming in the mail quarterly/monthly creates some risk with the info. Mail goes missing.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
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Munir
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Munir »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:19 pm
Munir wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:12 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:56 pm Good call!
Why? :happy
In my opinion, getting paper copies of annual tax statements is the one scenario where paper statements make sense for some people, so I found it a good call both that this individual decided they could live without the costly and wasteful paper statements for everything else, and also that Vanguard bent a little and allowed opting for paper tax documents to still be seen as in compliance to avoid the fee.

I'm still working on my parents regarding paper statements for certain things. When I ask them why they need them, they really can't give me an answer, but it's routine, and they prefer it. However, fees are the stronger motivator, as every time a paper document option has carried a fee, they've decided they can live without it. Interesting how that works. . .
I am probably in the same group as your parents because I was raised on saving paper copies of everything. Now in my eighties, I am cleaning my desk of large amounts of old dated receipts and will start discontinuing receiving receipts from current non-governmental accounts.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by cas »

Frobie wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:24 pm
I’ve been trying to convert my conventional mutual fund accounts to brokerage for a few days. I’ve tried on multiple devices and operating systems and at different times of the day and night, but I always get a message saying, “Sorry, something went wrong. Please try again later.”

There’s no reason I’m aware of that this should be complicated. Is it just me? Any suggestions other than keep at it?
Is this during the process of filling out the paperwork to create a new brokerage account? (as opposed to just using a pre-existing brokerage account, which some people have from the era when Vanguard outsourced brokerage stuff to Pershing.)

If exodusNH's suggestion doesn't work, make sure that the address and phone number(s) you are entering for the new account are the same as exist in the registration(s) of your current account(s).

Different context, but I was helping someone open a Roth IRA last week, and we kept getting that error message at the very end. Turned out to be that she was putting a different phone number than existed on her already open traditional IRA. My theory is that the previously unknown phone number might have been triggering some sort of internal security check. (And then was giving a nondescript error so that the bad guy, if there was one, didn't get any useful information on what was wrong.) Anyway ... the error message went away as soon as we filled out the form with the exact same registration information as existed on her already open account.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Stinky »

exodusNH wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:28 pm
Frobie wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:24 pm My apologies as I admit that I haven’t read the entirety of this thread before posting.

I’ve been trying to convert my conventional mutual fund accounts to brokerage for a few days. I’ve tried on multiple devices and operating systems and at different times of the day and night, but I always get a message saying, “Sorry, something went wrong. Please try again later.”

There’s no reason I’m aware of that this should be complicated. Is it just me? Any suggestions other than keep at it?

Haven’t had to call Vanguard in maybe 20-ish years and would like to keep the streak going if possible. :happy
Based on earlier comments, if you have your account enabled for direct deposit or have automated anything configured, that will prevent you from converting until you turn those off.
I also haven’t read the whole thread.

Our Vanguard mutual funds on the old platform automatically remit the quarterly dividends to our checking account. Do I need to turn this off if/when I try to convert to the brokerage platform?
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
tj
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by tj »

Stinky wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:24 pm
exodusNH wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:28 pm
Frobie wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:24 pm My apologies as I admit that I haven’t read the entirety of this thread before posting.

I’ve been trying to convert my conventional mutual fund accounts to brokerage for a few days. I’ve tried on multiple devices and operating systems and at different times of the day and night, but I always get a message saying, “Sorry, something went wrong. Please try again later.”

There’s no reason I’m aware of that this should be complicated. Is it just me? Any suggestions other than keep at it?

Haven’t had to call Vanguard in maybe 20-ish years and would like to keep the streak going if possible. :happy
Based on earlier comments, if you have your account enabled for direct deposit or have automated anything configured, that will prevent you from converting until you turn those off.
I also haven’t read the whole thread.

Our Vanguard mutual funds on the old platform automatically remit the quarterly dividends to our checking account. Do I need to turn this off if/when I try to convert to the brokerage platform?
Not that I can recall. You just probably need to set it up again
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

Munir wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:29 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:19 pm
Munir wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:12 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:56 pm Good call!
Why? :happy
In my opinion, getting paper copies of annual tax statements is the one scenario where paper statements make sense for some people, so I found it a good call both that this individual decided they could live without the costly and wasteful paper statements for everything else, and also that Vanguard bent a little and allowed opting for paper tax documents to still be seen as in compliance to avoid the fee.

I'm still working on my parents regarding paper statements for certain things. When I ask them why they need them, they really can't give me an answer, but it's routine, and they prefer it. However, fees are the stronger motivator, as every time a paper document option has carried a fee, they've decided they can live without it. Interesting how that works. . .
I am probably in the same group as your parents because I was raised on saving paper copies of everything. Now in my eighties, I am cleaning my desk of large amounts of old dated receipts and will start discontinuing receiving receipts from current non-governmental accounts.
Close. They're mid-70's. I'm certainly not indicting it. Of course everyone is a product of their times, and there's nothing wrong with having a preference for paper. This is strengthened by confirmation bias such that any time you can pull a paper record when needed, you validate the behavior. I sometimes have trouble getting rid of things, so it's best for me to stem accumulation or prefer digital clutter which at least takes up no additional space in the physical realm. Some people also make a conscious choice at a certain age to just ride something out and not learn or adapt to a new technology. I fully expect I will do this as well, and I find it interesting to speculate on what that might be. With my grandparents, it was computers and a DVD Player. With my parents, maybe digital banking and streaming services? Where will I say it's not worth it? Virtual reality and biotech implants are my best working theories. . .
exodusNH
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by exodusNH »

Stinky wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:24 pm
exodusNH wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:28 pm
Frobie wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:24 pm My apologies as I admit that I haven’t read the entirety of this thread before posting.

I’ve been trying to convert my conventional mutual fund accounts to brokerage for a few days. I’ve tried on multiple devices and operating systems and at different times of the day and night, but I always get a message saying, “Sorry, something went wrong. Please try again later.”

There’s no reason I’m aware of that this should be complicated. Is it just me? Any suggestions other than keep at it?

Haven’t had to call Vanguard in maybe 20-ish years and would like to keep the streak going if possible. :happy
Based on earlier comments, if you have your account enabled for direct deposit or have automated anything configured, that will prevent you from converting until you turn those off.
I also haven’t read the whole thread.

Our Vanguard mutual funds on the old platform automatically remit the quarterly dividends to our checking account. Do I need to turn this off if/when I try to convert to the brokerage platform?
I'm not sure, but it seemed like the issue is related to receiving payments from an external system (e.g. tax return deposits) or having configured features that aren't supported on the brokerage platform (automatic rebalancing, directing dividends from fund A to fund B.) I think it's less of an issue for payments being pushed out, but what do I know?
Northern Flicker
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Northern Flicker »

rob wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:39 pm
jebmke wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:32 pm How many funds do you have? Or, perhaps another way to ask, what would be the total fee in bp for your total portfolio?
I don't want to directly answer with a reversible nbr BUT... it increases my total portfolio fees by @30% per year. Due to numerous reasons I'm not going into, there are a reasonable nbr of accounts each with some funds, so overall a lot of "account/fund" pairs and this fee is per account per fund....


It's hardly active mgt fee territory but it's a big hit to me from the "low cost leader".
It is a zero hit. They are retiring the old platform, and you can convert now or pay to delay the inevitable.
Random Poster
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Random Poster »

Frobie wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:24 pm My apologies as I admit that I haven’t read the entirety of this thread before posting.

I’ve been trying to convert my conventional mutual fund accounts to brokerage for a few days. I’ve tried on multiple devices and operating systems and at different times of the day and night, but I always get a message saying, “Sorry, something went wrong. Please try again later.”

There’s no reason I’m aware of that this should be complicated. Is it just me? Any suggestions other than keep at it?

Haven’t had to call Vanguard in maybe 20-ish years and would like to keep the streak going if possible. :happy
I had this issue when trying to convert my mother’s account.

To get around it, I just clicked on the “upgrade” link beside each account and that seemed to take care of it, as far as I can tell, because by the next day everything showed up as being in a brokerage account (1 for her taxable account; 1 for her IRA).
Most experiences are better imagined.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by tomd37 »

Random Poster et al,
The conversion seemed to have gone well for you and others. One of my concerns in my TIRA is the full agent authorization that my spouse has on my TIRA account. Did that carry over when you did the conversion online or did you discover that that did not happen as expected if you had that authorization?

I would think, from what I have read in all these responses to the initial post, that could be handled properly if one called in to VG and had a representative handle the conversion for the caller. I have three different types of accounts from twenty years ago; TIRA, Roth IRA, and a jointly owned taxable investment account. My spouse owns a small TIRA.

Regards,
Tom D.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by HENRYGRUGER »

Iorek wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:25 am Anyone else get this email—

“If you choose to remain on the mutual fund-only platform after September 30, 2022, you'll be charged a $20 annual account service fee for each fund account to offset the costs and complexity of maintaining this system. You'll see a fee of $40.00 in your transaction history. Additionally, your account may lose certain features and functionality over time.”

Not really clear why we would see a fee of $40 in our transaction history if the fee is $20 (VTSAX is our only fund) but don’t plan on sticking with the mutual fund account to test what happens.
I did NOT get such an email but I am a PAS client as well as having over $1M in accounts with Vanguard. Well, $998,000 as of Friday. I am down this year @$100,000 since January but it was almost $189,000 a couple of months ago.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Kenkat »

exodusNH wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:28 pm
Frobie wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:24 pm My apologies as I admit that I haven’t read the entirety of this thread before posting.

I’ve been trying to convert my conventional mutual fund accounts to brokerage for a few days. I’ve tried on multiple devices and operating systems and at different times of the day and night, but I always get a message saying, “Sorry, something went wrong. Please try again later.”

There’s no reason I’m aware of that this should be complicated. Is it just me? Any suggestions other than keep at it?

Haven’t had to call Vanguard in maybe 20-ish years and would like to keep the streak going if possible. :happy
Based on earlier comments, if you have your account enabled for direct deposit or have automated anything configured, that will prevent you from converting until you turn those off.
I will add that even after these were turned off (in my case an IRS return direct deposit), I am still receiving the error. So you may need to call. In my case, when I called, someone answered the phone immediately (after going through the automated “why are you calling so we can route you to the right place” system). The CSR was very helpful but ultimately was unable to manually convert my account - somewhat surprisingly to him it sounded like. He opened a ticket for a back office team to look into my account and determine why it still would not convert. He said I could periodically try to convert or call back but said it could take some time to investigate. This was my taxable account; my rollover IRA converted without issue.

He also said that Vanguard would waive fees through November 1 so there is time to get things sorted out,
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by rob »

Northern Flicker wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:30 pm
rob wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:39 pm
jebmke wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:32 pm How many funds do you have? Or, perhaps another way to ask, what would be the total fee in bp for your total portfolio?
I don't want to directly answer with a reversible nbr BUT... it increases my total portfolio fees by @30% per year. Due to numerous reasons I'm not going into, there are a reasonable nbr of accounts each with some funds, so overall a lot of "account/fund" pairs and this fee is per account per fund....


It's hardly active mgt fee territory but it's a big hit to me from the "low cost leader".
It is a zero hit. They are retiring the old platform, and you can convert now or pay to delay the inevitable.
Some people are rich enough to think that a 30% increase is nothing... I'm not one of them.
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by retired@50 »

tomd37 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:43 pm Random Poster et al,
The conversion seemed to have gone well for you and others. One of my concerns in my TIRA is the full agent authorization that my spouse has on my TIRA account. Did that carry over when you did the conversion online or did you discover that that did not happen as expected if you had that authorization?

I would think, from what I have read in all these responses to the initial post, that could be handled properly if one called in to VG and had a representative handle the conversion for the caller. I have three different types of accounts from twenty years ago; TIRA, Roth IRA, and a jointly owned taxable investment account. My spouse owns a small TIRA.

Regards,
Several forum members, ruralavalon in particular, have mentioned that they called Vanguard and they handled the conversion and it preserved the agent authorization(s) they had in place. So, it's worth the time on the phone to make it go smoothly. Best of luck.

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Northern Flicker »

rob wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:05 pm
Northern Flicker wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:30 pm
rob wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:39 pm
jebmke wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:32 pm How many funds do you have? Or, perhaps another way to ask, what would be the total fee in bp for your total portfolio?
I don't want to directly answer with a reversible nbr BUT... it increases my total portfolio fees by @30% per year. Due to numerous reasons I'm not going into, there are a reasonable nbr of accounts each with some funds, so overall a lot of "account/fund" pairs and this fee is per account per fund....


It's hardly active mgt fee territory but it's a big hit to me from the "low cost leader".
It is a zero hit. They are retiring the old platform, and you can convert now or pay to delay the inevitable.
Some people are rich enough to think that a 30% increase is nothing... I'm not one of them.
A zero increase is nothing, which is what you will experience if you do not choose to delay the inevitable.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by jebmke »

rob wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:05 pm
Northern Flicker wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:30 pm
rob wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:39 pm
jebmke wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:32 pm How many funds do you have? Or, perhaps another way to ask, what would be the total fee in bp for your total portfolio?
I don't want to directly answer with a reversible nbr BUT... it increases my total portfolio fees by @30% per year. Due to numerous reasons I'm not going into, there are a reasonable nbr of accounts each with some funds, so overall a lot of "account/fund" pairs and this fee is per account per fund....


It's hardly active mgt fee territory but it's a big hit to me from the "low cost leader".
It is a zero hit. They are retiring the old platform, and you can convert now or pay to delay the inevitable.
Some people are rich enough to think that a 30% increase is nothing... I'm not one of them.
Lol, you haven’t told us what this is in absolute dollars.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by jebmke »

Northern Flicker wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:40 am
rob wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:05 pm
Northern Flicker wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:30 pm
rob wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:39 pm
jebmke wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:32 pm How many funds do you have? Or, perhaps another way to ask, what would be the total fee in bp for your total portfolio?
I don't want to directly answer with a reversible nbr BUT... it increases my total portfolio fees by @30% per year. Due to numerous reasons I'm not going into, there are a reasonable nbr of accounts each with some funds, so overall a lot of "account/fund" pairs and this fee is per account per fund....


It's hardly active mgt fee territory but it's a big hit to me from the "low cost leader".
It is a zero hit. They are retiring the old platform, and you can convert now or pay to delay the inevitable.
Some people are rich enough to think that a 30% increase is nothing... I'm not one of them.
A zero increase is nothing, which is what you will experience if you do not choose to delay the inevitable.
I believe Rob is restricted by employer. I’ve lost track. Nonetheless, whining to random internet people isn’t going to change his options.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
peppers
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by peppers »

peppers wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:25 pm Received the email this morning from Vanguard. It will cost me $100.00 if I do nothing. I could go to the brokerage side and hope everything I have set up carries over.
Or I could contact the folks at Fidelity and say I need you to move something for me. That would probably lead to more calls, text messages and emails from the Fidelity reps.

An interesting thing to me was that on the Vanguard home page they claim to have 30 million investors. In the email I received it stated "join the 4.5 million investors who use Vanguard Brokerage Accounts. (VBA)".

Hmmm.......
Update

Transitioned our accounts this morning with no issues. Vanguard claims 1-2 days for the transition to be complete. I am eagerly looking forward to see how it goes and take in the Vanguard brokerage ambience.

We already have the Fidelity brokerage ambience so I am tingling with excitement to do a comparison.

Vanguard - Fidelity Game On
"..the cavalry ain't comin' kid, you're on your own..."
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