New fee for Vanguard mutual [and brokerage accounts - July 2023 updates]

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exodusNH
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by exodusNH »

miamivice wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:24 pm
exodusNH wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:22 pm
munemaker wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:14 pm Does anyone know when the fee will be charged?

My wife and I each have legacy accounts as well as brokerage accounts, including traditional, Roth and taxable accounts. We have more than $1M and less than $5M at VG, so we will get hit with a bunch of fees for each fund.

We will probably move all our business to Fidelity. I am just wondering if I have enough time to do this before the fee hits.

Mun
Someone reported September.

Make sure you pull down your cost basis for everything, but especially your pre-2012 purchases.
Vanguard will send Fidelity your cost basis information It took me about a week to transfer. We did not pay any fees to transfer.

Call them and inquire about a bonus. I am receiving about $1050 bonus to move my accounts to Fidelity.
Did you get lot level information for the pre-2012 purchases, though?

Vanguard doesn't charge account closure fees, nor to they reimburse fees that the losing brokerage might charge.
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

EricJ wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 11:54 am
miamivice wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:16 pm Vanguard knows how to tick off a lot of customers who quietly hold accounts (worth billions) at Vanguard. That takes skill.

I personally am in the middle of moving $1.3 million assets to Fidelity because of the letter that I received. Honestly, whatever platforms Vanguard has and their cost structure to maintain is "not my problem".

At Vanguard's request, I upgraded to a better platform. It just isn't the one that Vanguard was hoping I would upgrade to. :D
I feel the same. Other brokers will give me hundreds or thousands in bonuses for me to move my assets there. I wish this were punishing for Vanguard, but perhaps it's exactly what they want to encourage to lower their costs and increase their competitors' costs. I guess it's a win-win for me and Vanguard if I move out.
I was also in the process of moving a parent's assets from Edward Jones to Vanguard. Now I'm calling Fidelity instead. Another account bonus, and parents like their paper statements, and Fidelity's are nice and pretty and printed on thick paper; just what some seniors want to see.
I don't quite understand this. Why would you actively want it to be punitive to Vanguard? It seems easy to have blinders for the potentially tens of thousands of dollars saved through an investing lifetime and also rage about a nominal and avoidable fee for something optional that costs real money.
fsrph
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by fsrph »

exodusNH wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:22 pm
munemaker wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:14 pm Does anyone know when the fee will be charged?

My wife and I each have legacy accounts as well as brokerage accounts, including traditional, Roth and taxable accounts. We have more than $1M and less than $5M at VG, so we will get hit with a bunch of fees for each fund.

We will probably move all our business to Fidelity. I am just wondering if I have enough time to do this before the fee hits.

Mun
Someone reported September.

Make sure you pull down your cost basis for everything, but especially your pre-2012 purchases.
A previous poster stated they called Vanguard and the new fee will begin in September. However I have never seen an official fee start date communicated to their clients by Vanguard.

Francis
"Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get." | Dale Carnegie
miamivice
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by miamivice »

exodusNH wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:27 pm
miamivice wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:24 pm
exodusNH wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:22 pm
munemaker wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:14 pm Does anyone know when the fee will be charged?

My wife and I each have legacy accounts as well as brokerage accounts, including traditional, Roth and taxable accounts. We have more than $1M and less than $5M at VG, so we will get hit with a bunch of fees for each fund.

We will probably move all our business to Fidelity. I am just wondering if I have enough time to do this before the fee hits.

Mun
Someone reported September.

Make sure you pull down your cost basis for everything, but especially your pre-2012 purchases.
Vanguard will send Fidelity your cost basis information It took me about a week to transfer. We did not pay any fees to transfer.

Call them and inquire about a bonus. I am receiving about $1050 bonus to move my accounts to Fidelity.
Did you get lot level information for the pre-2012 purchases, though?

Vanguard doesn't charge account closure fees, nor to they reimburse fees that the losing brokerage might charge.
I haven't checked exactly what cost basis information transferred over.
exodusNH
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by exodusNH »

miamivice wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:43 pm
exodusNH wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:27 pm
miamivice wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:24 pm
exodusNH wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:22 pm
munemaker wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:14 pm Does anyone know when the fee will be charged?

My wife and I each have legacy accounts as well as brokerage accounts, including traditional, Roth and taxable accounts. We have more than $1M and less than $5M at VG, so we will get hit with a bunch of fees for each fund.

We will probably move all our business to Fidelity. I am just wondering if I have enough time to do this before the fee hits.

Mun
Someone reported September.

Make sure you pull down your cost basis for everything, but especially your pre-2012 purchases.
Vanguard will send Fidelity your cost basis information It took me about a week to transfer. We did not pay any fees to transfer.

Call them and inquire about a bonus. I am receiving about $1050 bonus to move my accounts to Fidelity.
Did you get lot level information for the pre-2012 purchases, though?

Vanguard doesn't charge account closure fees, nor to they reimburse fees that the losing brokerage might charge.
I haven't checked exactly what cost basis information transferred over.
Before 2012, there was no law requiring brokerages / mutual funds to track individual lot-level purchases. Many of them did, though, and showed it to customers. On transfer, the pre-2012 data may come over as a single lot, locking you into average cost basis for all of those purchases.

If you don't intend to spend the money, then it doesn't really matter.
Clarky
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by Clarky »

We really have no idea how many customers and related asset value have been ticked off since there seems to be no data, only anecdotes.
This.

I have brokerage, pay no fees, and get prompt customer service. Even when I leave an anonymous “Feedback” comment, twice the issues I’ve noted have been addressed (I know I may not be the only one who left that feedback). In any case, the customer experience is improving all the time. Transition to brokerage, sign up for e delivery, and live the good life. And yes, be sure all you who flee to greener pastures, do come back here and let us know what heaven is like wherever you land.
:beer
catlady
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by catlady »

fsrph wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:32 pm
exodusNH wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:22 pm
munemaker wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:14 pm Does anyone know when the fee will be charged?

My wife and I each have legacy accounts as well as brokerage accounts, including traditional, Roth and taxable accounts. We have more than $1M and less than $5M at VG, so we will get hit with a bunch of fees for each fund.

We will probably move all our business to Fidelity. I am just wondering if I have enough time to do this before the fee hits.

Mun
Someone reported September.

Make sure you pull down your cost basis for everything, but especially your pre-2012 purchases.
A previous poster stated they called Vanguard and the new fee will begin in September. However I have never seen an official fee start date communicated to their clients by Vanguard.

Francis
The email I received from Vanguard stated the following
If you haven't migrated your fund holdings off our legacy platform by September 1, 2023, you'll be charged an account service fee of $25 for each fund holding.
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Tubes
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by Tubes »

munemaker wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:14 pm Does anyone know when the fee will be charged?

My wife and I each have legacy accounts as well as brokerage accounts, including traditional, Roth and taxable accounts. We have more than $1M and less than $5M at VG, so we will get hit with a bunch of fees for each fund.

We will probably move all our business to Fidelity. I am just wondering if I have enough time to do this before the fee hits.

Mun

edit: I really feel bad about leaving VG. We have been with them for around 40 years. I originally picked them due to low cost and no fees. Never dreamed it would come to this. We also have accounts at Fidelity. I don't need much in the way of customer service or hand holding, but on the few occasions that I do, Fidelity seems to be a lot better, and their web site is better too. Also (avoiding any political discussion), I don't like how VG has been voting my shares. I guess it is just time to leave.
You have enough time, at least for the brokerage accounts. I just transferred last week. I was impressed by how easy it was and how quickly it went. My reason to transfer had nothing to do with this fee, I just like Fidelity's platform better. Mutual fund accounts may take a bit longer.

The process: I first called to get a transfer bonus. This is not automatic, they have to set a flag on your account.

Monday evening (Memorial day): 1) Created ROTH account on Fidelity. 2) Initiated ROTH transfer 3) Initiated brokerage transfer from Fidelity side
Tuesday: no news
Wednesday: communication about transfers in progress
Thursday: Brokerage transfer complete with no basis
Friday: ROTH transfer mostly complete, except for residual dividend and part shares
Saturday: Brokerage basis complete
Tuesday: ROTH residual transferred
Thursday (today): partial share transferred as cash -- all actions now complete ---
miamivice
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by miamivice »

I'm not leaving Vanguard due to the migration, but it's the icing on the cake. Vanguard's website is antiquated. Their Android app is lame. Fidelity has a much easier to use website and a powerful phone app.

I like doing business with businesses that are hungry for customers. Vanguard appears to be willing to lose customers over making investments in their web interface and phone app. Fidelity is willing to make the investments and appears to be hungry for more customers.

There is no advantage for me to stay with Vanguard nor a penalty to switch to Fidelity. Later, if Vanguard decides to make the investments and would like me back, I can always transfer from Fidelity to Vanguard.
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munemaker
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by munemaker »

fsrph wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:32 pm
exodusNH wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:22 pm
munemaker wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:14 pm Does anyone know when the fee will be charged?

My wife and I each have legacy accounts as well as brokerage accounts, including traditional, Roth and taxable accounts. We have more than $1M and less than $5M at VG, so we will get hit with a bunch of fees for each fund.

We will probably move all our business to Fidelity. I am just wondering if I have enough time to do this before the fee hits.

Mun
Someone reported September.

Make sure you pull down your cost basis for everything, but especially your pre-2012 purchases.
A previous poster stated they called Vanguard and the new fee will begin in September. However I have never seen an official fee start date communicated to their clients by Vanguard.

Francis
I just called VG to check on the date the fee will be charged. I was told September. I told them I would probably just move my accounts. No push back. They don't really care about losing the business. Apparently account below $5M are not significant to their business.

September is good timing for me. We are transferring estate assets (VG) for a deceased relative into our VG account, and also I have time to check on transfer bonuses at Fidelity.

Mun
EricJ
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by EricJ »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:29 pm I don't quite understand this. Why would you actively want it to be punitive to Vanguard? It seems easy to have blinders for the potentially tens of thousands of dollars saved through an investing lifetime and also rage about a nominal and avoidable fee for something optional that costs real money.
Why do I want to punish Vanguard? I have been loyal for 30+ years, and brought them many other customers. I see no reciprocation. I have a "if I die first" letter for my wife, and it says she can trust whatever the Flagship rep or Vanguard CFP says. Now there's no rep, no annual financial review, no CFP access (for me at < $5M), and a high chance they would just move her to a fee-based managed account. Vanguard used to act like they appreciated large accounts, but the definition of large is increasing very quickly, and the appreciation shown is decreasing.

In further detail, I received a letter on June 6 that said new a fee schedule started on June 1. That's rude. Secondly, they continually reduce/remove Flagship benefits. Thirdly, I'm annoyed at the constant nagging to "transition" my accounts, which without a doubt creates work for me, and a risk of mis-steps, with no benefit for me. Fourthly: My parent really likes their paper documents. Heck, I like some paper docs too, such as annual reports. I still get a newspaper. Call me a dinosaur. Though it may change, Fidelity currently welcomes and rewards dinosaurs.

Yeah, maybe it seems petty to you. Maybe it is objectively petty. But Vanguard is the company (and Bogle is the man) that taught me to watch out for fees. Will do. I'm annoyed that this makes work for me, and I wish someone at Vanguard would notice the loss of a client. While they may notice, it's a little sad that they probably do not care, and in fact are happy to see me go.
stockwiz
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by stockwiz »

This just received in an email to me from Vanguard:

Vanguard homepage

Updates to Form CRS and the Vanguard Brokerage Services commission & fee schedules
Dear Vanguard Brokerage Client,

We recently updated our Broker-Dealer Client Relationship Summary (Form CRS) for Vanguard Marketing Corporation, effective June 1, 2023. This form summarizes the services and support Vanguard Brokerage Services® provides you as a Vanguard client.

To reflect our changing business practices and services, we've made the following changes to Form CRS:

Added information on the investment services we provide.
Updated information on our revenue and conflicts of interest.
Please review the updates to Form CRS and retain a copy for your records.

We've also updated our Vanguard Brokerage Services commission & fee schedules, effective June 1, 2023. The annual account service fee per Vanguard Brokerage Account is now $25. We don't charge this fee to any of the following:

Clients who've elected e-delivery of statements and the annual privacy policy notice; confirmations; reports, prospectuses, and proxy materials; and notices, amendments, and other important account updates.
Clients enrolled in an advisory program serviced by an affiliate of Vanguard (e.g., Vanguard Digital Advisor, Vanguard Personal Advisor).
Clients with at least $5 million in qualifying Vanguard assets.
Clients who have an organization or a trust account registered under an employee identification number (EIN).
Sign up for e-delivery
If you haven't already done so, we encourage you to sign up for e-delivery so we can more quickly and securely send you future communications and documents.

Thank you for belonging to the Vanguard community of investors.
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

EricJ wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:30 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:29 pm I don't quite understand this. Why would you actively want it to be punitive to Vanguard? It seems easy to have blinders for the potentially tens of thousands of dollars saved through an investing lifetime and also rage about a nominal and avoidable fee for something optional that costs real money.
Why do I want to punish Vanguard? I have been loyal for 30+ years, and brought them many other customers. I see no reciprocation. I have a "if I die first" letter for my wife, and it says she can trust whatever the Flagship rep or Vanguard CFP says. Now there's no rep, no annual financial review, no CFP access (for me at < $5M), and a high chance they would just move her to a fee-based managed account. Vanguard used to act like they appreciated large accounts, but the definition of large is increasing very quickly, and the appreciation shown is decreasing.

In further detail, I received a letter on June 6 that said new a fee schedule started on June 1. That's rude. Secondly, they continually reduce/remove Flagship benefits. Thirdly, I'm annoyed at the constant nagging to "transition" my accounts, which without a doubt creates work for me, and a risk of mis-steps, with no benefit for me. Fourthly: My parent really likes their paper documents. Heck, I like some paper docs too, such as annual reports. I still get a newspaper. Call me a dinosaur. Though it may change, Fidelity currently welcomes and rewards dinosaurs.

Yeah, maybe it seems petty to you. Maybe it is objectively petty. But Vanguard is the company (and Bogle is the man) that taught me to watch out for fees. Will do. I'm annoyed that this makes work for me, and I wish someone at Vanguard would notice the loss of a client. While they may notice, it's a little sad that they probably do not care, and in fact are happy to see me go.
So it really all comes down to what have they done for you lately?

I'm not going to call you anything. If you like paper, you like paper. My parents like paper, but I'm not looking forward to sorting through the accumulated mountain of decades of statements and bills one day.

Thanks for the comprehensive explanation. I hope you find satisfaction. Still, if a win-win exists, why would I prefer something punitive?
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munemaker
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by munemaker »

EricJ wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:30 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:29 pm I don't quite understand this. Why would you actively want it to be punitive to Vanguard? It seems easy to have blinders for the potentially tens of thousands of dollars saved through an investing lifetime and also rage about a nominal and avoidable fee for something optional that costs real money.
Why do I want to punish Vanguard? I have been loyal for 30+ years, and brought them many other customers. I see no reciprocation. I have a "if I die first" letter for my wife, and it says she can trust whatever the Flagship rep or Vanguard CFP says. Now there's no rep, no annual financial review, no CFP access (for me at < $5M), and a high chance they would just move her to a fee-based managed account. Vanguard used to act like they appreciated large accounts, but the definition of large is increasing very quickly, and the appreciation shown is decreasing.

In further detail, I received a letter on June 6 that said new a fee schedule started on June 1. That's rude. Secondly, they continually reduce/remove Flagship benefits. Thirdly, I'm annoyed at the constant nagging to "transition" my accounts, which without a doubt creates work for me, and a risk of mis-steps, with no benefit for me. Fourthly: My parent really likes their paper documents. Heck, I like some paper docs too, such as annual reports. I still get a newspaper. Call me a dinosaur. Though it may change, Fidelity currently welcomes and rewards dinosaurs.

Yeah, maybe it seems petty to you. Maybe it is objectively petty. But Vanguard is the company (and Bogle is the man) that taught me to watch out for fees. Will do. I'm annoyed that this makes work for me, and I wish someone at Vanguard would notice the loss of a client. While they may notice, it's a little sad that they probably do not care, and in fact are happy to see me go.
+1
EricJ
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by EricJ »

The first step for me is to transition from Mutual Fund account to brokerage, so I just had a long call with a Vanguard rep about account this. I had to stop when the rep said: "What do you mean by cost basis?"
Clarky
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by Clarky »

This thread has run its course. Lol
jebmke
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by jebmke »

Clarky wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:07 pm This thread has run its course. Lol
It is a sacrificial zinc
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
exodusNH
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by exodusNH »

EricJ wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:30 pm Yeah, maybe it seems petty to you. Maybe it is objectively petty. But Vanguard is the company (and Bogle is the man) that taught me to watch out for fees. Will do. I'm annoyed that this makes work for me, and I wish someone at Vanguard would notice the loss of a client. While they may notice, it's a little sad that they probably do not care, and in fact are happy to see me go.
For every $10,000 you keep in Fidelity's money market account, you're earning about $30 less per year than at Vanguard.

Just like the property tax vs sales tax vs income tax debate, there are real, fixed costs that need to be recovered. They don't vary much from place to place. What varies is how they extract it.

I'm not a Vanguard fanboy. (Fanguard?) I wouldn't recommend them to my friends or family. Their communication and timing are terrible. It's like I'm running their public relations.

If I needed more service, I'd probably go to Fidelity. I hope you find them satisfactory.
Clarky
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by Clarky »

jebmke wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:08 pm
Clarky wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:07 pm This thread has run its course. Lol
It is a sacrificial zinc
Yes, on the more edifying threads.
sycamore
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by sycamore »

munemaker wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:27 pm ...
I just called VG to check on the date the fee will be charged. I was told September. I told them I would probably just move my accounts. No push back. They don't really care about losing the business. Apparently account below $5M are not significant to their business.

September is good timing for me. We are transferring estate assets (VG) for a deceased relative into our VG account, and also I have time to check on transfer bonuses at Fidelity.

Mun
I still have a Vanguard account for 529 accounts, but only a token amount of money in my investment account. I found that other brokerages besides Fidelity have better bonuses. Schwab and ETrade are the usual ones.

As part of your transferring your accounts to Fidelity, remember to:
- review / set your communication preferences (US Mail versus electronic delivery for various kinds of documents)
- review / set your dividend reinvestment elections
- review / set up account or trading alerts & security preferences
- review / set your cost basis elections
- review / set your Transfer on Death / Pay On Death designation for taxable accounts (if so desired)
- review / set beneficiary settings for retirement accounts
- set up linked bank accounts (if so desired)
- set a reminder for tax time in February 2024 to look for two sets of consolidated 1099 statements, one from Vanguard (presumably several of those, since you have multiple mutual fund-only accounts), and one set from Fidelity

Maybe other things?
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colodane
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by colodane »

It new fees are certainly annoying, but not unexpected. Only a question of time until they inform the remaining Legacy account holders that their only choices are convert to brokerage or leave Vanguard. Even at age 80, I'm not optimistic about outliving that ultimatum.

Between my IRA and Taxable accounts I have a total of 14 funds. I could pare this down to 8 or 9 if I wanted and save $100 or so in fees.

But my current outlook is that the $350 they want is less than 0.05% of my holdings. Cheap when compared with their advisory service ;>)
AQ
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by AQ »

I still didn't get email or mail about new fees yet. Is it possible that Vanguard might spare some of us for whatever reasons? :D Anyone in the same boat?

Some consider moving to Fidelity. One common complaint about Vanguard is its website design. I just noticed that Fidelity recently also introduced a new layout (in beta version) which used a much larger font size: not as bad as Vanguard, but seems going that direction (is this type of change, i.e. larger font sizes but less info on one page, is what those App users want? Otherwise not clear to me it becomes popular nowadays
exodusNH
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by exodusNH »

colodane wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 3:38 pm It new fees are certainly annoying, but not unexpected. Only a question of time until they inform the remaining Legacy account holders that their only choices are convert to brokerage or leave Vanguard. Even at age 80, I'm not optimistic about outliving that ultimatum.

Between my IRA and Taxable accounts I have a total of 14 funds. I could pare this down to 8 or 9 if I wanted and save $100 or so in fees.

But my current outlook is that the $350 they want is less than 0.05% of my holdings. Cheap when compared with their advisory service ;>)
They can't kick you out.

They will just make it more and more painful until you choose to leave. For example, they could remove web and phone access, requiring all interactions to happen by mail.
sport
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by sport »

AQ wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 3:45 pm I still didn't get email or mail about new fees yet. Is it possible that Vanguard might spare some of us for whatever reasons? Anyone in the same boat?
We have not been notified either. Perhaps if you are old enough, Vanguard takes pity on you. :wink:
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

AQ wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 3:45 pm I still didn't get email or mail about new fees yet. Is it possible that Vanguard might spare some of us for whatever reasons? :D Anyone in the same boat?
If finding out later that you didn't actually get spared would annoy you, I would suggest not to count on it.
capran
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by capran »

fsrph wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:32 pm
exodusNH wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:22 pm
munemaker wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:14 pm Does anyone know when the fee will be charged?

My wife and I each have legacy accounts as well as brokerage accounts, including traditional, Roth and taxable accounts. We have more than $1M and less than $5M at VG, so we will get hit with a bunch of fees for each fund.

We will probably move all our business to Fidelity. I am just wondering if I have enough time to do this before the fee hits.

Mun
Someone reported September.

Make sure you pull down your cost basis for everything, but especially your pre-2012 purchases.
A previous poster stated they called Vanguard and the new fee will begin in September. However I have never seen an official fee start date communicated to their clients by Vanguard.

Francis
Yes, I was that poster. One of the questions I asked that prompted the Representative reply that the fee's would start in September was "I don't see how you can send me a letter dated June 1 that I received on June 7 that seems to suggest the fee's start immediately on June 1st."
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munemaker
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by munemaker »

sycamore wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 3:13 pm
munemaker wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:27 pm ...
I just called VG to check on the date the fee will be charged. I was told September. I told them I would probably just move my accounts. No push back. They don't really care about losing the business. Apparently account below $5M are not significant to their business.

September is good timing for me. We are transferring estate assets (VG) for a deceased relative into our VG account, and also I have time to check on transfer bonuses at Fidelity.

Mun
I still have a Vanguard account for 529 accounts, but only a token amount of money in my investment account. I found that other brokerages besides Fidelity have better bonuses. Schwab and ETrade are the usual ones.

As part of your transferring your accounts to Fidelity, remember to:
- review / set your communication preferences (US Mail versus electronic delivery for various kinds of documents)
- review / set your dividend reinvestment elections
- review / set up account or trading alerts & security preferences
- review / set your cost basis elections
- review / set your Transfer on Death / Pay On Death designation for taxable accounts (if so desired)
- review / set beneficiary settings for retirement accounts
- set up linked bank accounts (if so desired)
- set a reminder for tax time in February 2024 to look for two sets of consolidated 1099 statements, one from Vanguard (presumably several of those, since you have multiple mutual fund-only accounts), and one set from Fidelity

Maybe other things?
Great tips! Thanks

Mun
miamivice
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by miamivice »

exodusNH wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:02 pm
miamivice wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:43 pm
exodusNH wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:27 pm
miamivice wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:24 pm
exodusNH wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:22 pm

Someone reported September.

Make sure you pull down your cost basis for everything, but especially your pre-2012 purchases.
Vanguard will send Fidelity your cost basis information It took me about a week to transfer. We did not pay any fees to transfer.

Call them and inquire about a bonus. I am receiving about $1050 bonus to move my accounts to Fidelity.
Did you get lot level information for the pre-2012 purchases, though?

Vanguard doesn't charge account closure fees, nor to they reimburse fees that the losing brokerage might charge.
I haven't checked exactly what cost basis information transferred over.
Before 2012, there was no law requiring brokerages / mutual funds to track individual lot-level purchases. Many of them did, though, and showed it to customers. On transfer, the pre-2012 data may come over as a single lot, locking you into average cost basis for all of those purchases.

If you don't intend to spend the money, then it doesn't really matter.
I just checked and it appears that cost basis information from 2010 forward has transferred. If memory serves me correctly, that is when Vanguard starting keeping track of cost basis data.

I do have some transactions from 2006 to 2010 that I don't have cost basis information for readily handy. I'm not sure what I will do when I sell these shares. I'll deal with that in the future when it's time to sell them.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by TomatoTomahto »

A friend emailed me about his experience moving from Vanguard to Schwab and Merril Edge.

Background: I opened a Vanguard Mutual Fund account in the last century, sometime between the time Prince sang about partying in 1999 and when we worried that all our PCs would die (Y2K).

First, thanks to those who contributed to this thread. Without you, I never would have known about these changes. Vanguard did not send me a letter through the USPS; Vanguard did not send me an email; Vanguard did not show a pop-up when I logged in; and Vanguard did not send me a message through the message center.

When I tried to get more information by reading the public web pages (i.e., pages available to those not logged in), I found a page dated June 1 about fees for brokerage accounts. That led me to a page about account service fees, but the date of the fee assessment was not disclosed. I read a prospectus as suggested by Vanguard, but that only said the annual fee would be charged on a single day, but didn’t say if that day was the first Monday in October or my birthday.

In the end, I decide to transition to two brokerages, Merrill Edge for my TIRA ($750 bonus) and Schwab for my trust account ($1000 bonus).

In contrast to Vanguard, Schwab does not hide from the public. What I found on their public web pages:

• While they charge $75 to buy a Vanguard mutual fund, there is no charge to sell a Vanguard mutual fund.
• You can reinvest dividends from a Vanguard mutual fund, without any fees (not for the processing and not for the purchase of the new shares).
• Zero is zero. There is no cost to purchase or sell ETFs. Vanguard may be low cost, but I doubt they beat those prices.
• The ERs on Vanguard ETFs held at Schwab are the same as those listed on the Vanguard website. Once again, I doubt that Vanguard has lower ERs on their ETFs when held in a Vanguard brokerage account.

As for Merrill Edge, I opened an account in March, 2019 with funds from an inheritance. In January and February, 2021, I experienced the joys of tax loss harvesting and the pain of a wash sale (quickly corrected by selling the offending share, but the pain carried over to tax filing in 2022). Even on the most hectic market days, I had no problem making and executing trades at Merrill Edge (there were reports here of people having trouble at Vanguard during those busy days).

More recently, when I opened my TIRA at Merrill Edge, I made mistake (here I could blame them for confusing instructions), but the offer page had a phone number to call. My call was answered within one minute, and I spoke to a representative who fixed my problem. After the call, she sent me a follow-up email with her contact information. She is an AVP (isn’t everyone) located in South Carolina and said I could email or schedule a time for a phone call. Note that I have a self-directed account and make all my trades on the web, so I should not be her problem. Again, reading Bogleheads, I get the impression that Vanguard’s service is not always at this level.

There were also some bumps with my Schwab application. The recommended code was rejected, so I called and got a service representative who told me to apply online and the code would be added later. She sent me contact numbers and confirmation that I qualified for the bonus. She also gave my phone number to a local Schwab representative, who called to see if I needed help.

I am waiting for approval of both accounts before the transfer process can begin. Of course, everything is individual, and if you are happy with how Vanguard treats you (and don’t like transfer bonuses), you can stay just as you are. As for me, It was fun while it lasted, but clearly I overstayed my welcome at Vanguard.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
WolfgangPauli
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by WolfgangPauli »

Just a quick thought on why I like paper a heck of a lot better than just on line. Paper helps if you or a loved one dies unexpectedly. In the case of my father, he kept everything paper and when he had a stroke and could no longer do his financials all I had to wait for is 1 quarter at the most. By then I received everything in paper that told me where everything was.

If he had kept them all on line, I am not sure how I would have been sure we had control over everything. I know many will say to just keep a good record but when people get into their '80s and '90s they tend to falter on that front. It was simple because all I had to do was to get his mail.
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doobiedoo
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by doobiedoo »

EricJ wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:30 pm Why do I want to punish Vanguard? I have been loyal for 30+ years, and brought them many other customers. I see no reciprocation. I have a "if I die first" letter for my wife, and it says she can trust whatever the Flagship rep or Vanguard CFP says. Now there's no rep, no annual financial review, no CFP access (for me at < $5M), and a high chance they would just move her to a fee-based managed account. Vanguard used to act like they appreciated large accounts, but the definition of large is increasing very quickly, and the appreciation shown is decreasing.

In further detail, I received a letter on June 6 that said new a fee schedule started on June 1. That's rude. Secondly, they continually reduce/remove Flagship benefits. Thirdly, I'm annoyed at the constant nagging to "transition" my accounts, which without a doubt creates work for me, and a risk of mis-steps, with no benefit for me. Fourthly: My parent really likes their paper documents. Heck, I like some paper docs too, such as annual reports. I still get a newspaper. Call me a dinosaur. Though it may change, Fidelity currently welcomes and rewards dinosaurs.

Yeah, maybe it seems petty to you. Maybe it is objectively petty. But Vanguard is the company (and Bogle is the man) that taught me to watch out for fees. Will do. I'm annoyed that this makes work for me, and I wish someone at Vanguard would notice the loss of a client. While they may notice, it's a little sad that they probably do not care, and in fact are happy to see me go.
You have articulated my feelings too. Thank you.
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

Interesting that despite the vaunted technical prowess of Fidelity and Schwab, what seems to be driving the new crop of Bogleheads into their open arms is "free" paper.
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Harry Livermore
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by Harry Livermore »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 5:11 am Interesting that despite the vaunted technical prowess of Fidelity and Schwab, what seems to be driving the new crop of Bogleheads into their open arms is "free" paper.
Or, in my case, $25 worth of paper annually to stay. I'm happy to stay and pay that sum.
I'm actually pretty tech-savvy and (as I said in my previous post) download and save PDFs as well. Belt and suspenders.
Like others, I prefer a passive stance with regards to statements (and invoices, bills, etc.) and an easy method for my adult kids and executor to access stuff as it comes in. Email is no more reliable than the US Mail, and worse, requires a password or other authentication that kids/ executors may or may not have (yes, I have a death book with a 27-page list of passwords, but I'm not perfect and don't print that out monthly... and sometimes passwords get changed) The mail "just shows up".
With "paperless" billing and statements, I have to:

wait to be notified (or worse, set up my own reminders)
log in ("sorry, the site is down for maintenance")
download (did I also download last month? can't remember, oops, duplicate file, ugh, save it with a V2 or trash?)
print for a file (this is optional and I suppose "paperless" folks don't do this) at my expense of ink & paper

"Is that really a chore, Harry?" Well, no, not if it was just Vanguard. But for me, it's:
Vanguard
Etrade
Marcus/ Goldman
mortgage
HELOC
vacation property HOA statement*
checking
cable bill
vacation property internet bill
cell phone bill
electric bill
property tax bill
EZpass
... and on and on.
I'm the customer. I'm the receiver: you send me paper, and I act on it. That's my role. Vanguard works for me. Please do some work, Vanguard. I don't have countless hours each week to log in to dozens of websites, see if there is something outstanding, and pay or take action (such as reconciling a checkbook or my Vanguard holdings) Paper in the PO box makes it easy: it's a notification, a reminder to act (open an envelope and see) and a record, all in one. If I'm busy with work or travel, there is a stack of action to take on my desk when I return.
Sure, lots of people here have automated everything. Not me. I'm set in my ways, prefer paper, and am willing to pay $25 per year for it. Will I be happy paying $25 per month, if Vanguard starts charging that in 2025? Maybe... but probably not. That might be a pain point that gets me to move to Schwab or Fidelity, and enjoy the $2K or $3K in bonuses they might offer me.
The bottom line for me is, while it seems petty (to me) on the part of Vanguard, I'm willing to play along for now...
Cheers

* our HOA quarterly bill is particularly galling: the board fired our in-house bookkeeper, who would send a monthly PDF in your email, and replaced her with an outside company that neither sends bills, nor notifies you that a payment is due. I set up a monthly Google reminder email to myself to "log in, check if I owe the HOA anything, download a statement" It's mind-blowing that they can't even send an email that says "you have a new statement"...
jebmke
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by jebmke »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 5:11 am Interesting that despite the vaunted technical prowess of Fidelity and Schwab, what seems to be driving the new crop of Bogleheads into their open arms is "free" paper.
Reminiscent of the free TurboTax crisis.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
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HueyLD
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by HueyLD »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:59 pm A friend emailed me about his experience moving from Vanguard to Schwab and Merril Edge.

Background: I opened a Vanguard Mutual Fund account in the last century, sometime between the time Prince sang about partying in 1999 and when we worried that all our PCs would die (Y2K).

First, thanks to those who contributed to this thread. Without you, I never would have known about these changes. Vanguard did not send me a letter through the USPS; Vanguard did not send me an email; Vanguard did not show a pop-up when I logged in; and Vanguard did not send me a message through the message center.

When I tried to get more information by reading the public web pages (i.e., pages available to those not logged in), I found a page dated June 1 about fees for brokerage accounts. That led me to a page about account service fees, but the date of the fee assessment was not disclosed. I read a prospectus as suggested by Vanguard, but that only said the annual fee would be charged on a single day, but didn’t say if that day was the first Monday in October or my birthday.

In the end, I decide to transition to two brokerages, Merrill Edge for my TIRA ($750 bonus) and Schwab for my trust account ($1000 bonus).

In contrast to Vanguard, Schwab does not hide from the public. What I found on their public web pages:

• While they charge $75 to buy a Vanguard mutual fund, there is no charge to sell a Vanguard mutual fund.
• You can reinvest dividends from a Vanguard mutual fund, without any fees (not for the processing and not for the purchase of the new shares).
• Zero is zero. There is no cost to purchase or sell ETFs. Vanguard may be low cost, but I doubt they beat those prices.
• The ERs on Vanguard ETFs held at Schwab are the same as those listed on the Vanguard website. Once again, I doubt that Vanguard has lower ERs on their ETFs when held in a Vanguard brokerage account.

As for Merrill Edge, I opened an account in March, 2019 with funds from an inheritance. In January and February, 2021, I experienced the joys of tax loss harvesting and the pain of a wash sale (quickly corrected by selling the offending share, but the pain carried over to tax filing in 2022). Even on the most hectic market days, I had no problem making and executing trades at Merrill Edge (there were reports here of people having trouble at Vanguard during those busy days).

More recently, when I opened my TIRA at Merrill Edge, I made mistake (here I could blame them for confusing instructions), but the offer page had a phone number to call. My call was answered within one minute, and I spoke to a representative who fixed my problem. After the call, she sent me a follow-up email with her contact information. She is an AVP (isn’t everyone) located in South Carolina and said I could email or schedule a time for a phone call. Note that I have a self-directed account and make all my trades on the web, so I should not be her problem. Again, reading Bogleheads, I get the impression that Vanguard’s service is not always at this level.

There were also some bumps with my Schwab application. The recommended code was rejected, so I called and got a service representative who told me to apply online and the code would be added later. She sent me contact numbers and confirmation that I qualified for the bonus. She also gave my phone number to a local Schwab representative, who called to see if I needed help.

I am waiting for approval of both accounts before the transfer process can begin. Of course, everything is individual, and if you are happy with how Vanguard treats you (and don’t like transfer bonuses), you can stay just as you are. As for me, It was fun while it lasted, but clearly I overstayed my welcome at Vanguard.
Thank you for sharing such an informative email. I have no idea why Vanguard wants to runoff long term good customers by imposing unreasonable fees. Well, hopefully enough good long term customers will leave because as Saint Bogle said: “ Fees matter!!!”
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

We should all understand and agree that opinions about fees and what is reasonable or fair are not universal. For those preferring exclusively paper, you know in your heart that this comes with a cost. Perhaps you can also see that those who switched voluntarily to paperless many years ago might not feel that it's fair or optimal to subsidize the increasing paper and mail costs for those who continue to demand paper, whatever their possibly valid reasons. Right now, it appears you can still get paper for free elsewhere, but do you expect that to last forever? Maybe it will, but if so, it's because the funds to support this are skimmed from another source. The fees are not for the purposes of angering long-term clients (although it is possible there might be some corporate benefit to that), but rather are primarily to encourage a desired outcome. One way or another, it seems to be working.
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jeffyscott
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by jeffyscott »

Harry Livermore wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 5:51 am
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 5:11 am Interesting that despite the vaunted technical prowess of Fidelity and Schwab, what seems to be driving the new crop of Bogleheads into their open arms is "free" paper.
...
With "paperless" billing and statements, I have to:
...
I'm not going to go to the trouble of making an itemized list of tasks involved with handling paper, but we actually switched most things to paperless in part to eliminate all the envelope opening and decisions about what to do with all the paper.

For credit cards and other bills, I put each of the last paper statements into a plastic portfolio, labeled "bills that are now paperless". These are all also on autopay, I'd not want to go paperless without also having autopay set up.

We created a new email address just for these bills, that gmail address then forwards to my regular email, while my spouse prefers to not get them in her regular email account (since I handle all the finances). The log on and password for that special email address for bills is in the same plastic portfolio. For these accounts, I let the browser save the log on and passwords, so I do not have to enter it when reviewing the bills.

For financial accounts, while I do have a list of them shared with our kids, that does not include log on information. I did leave tax info on paper as a fail-safe. We only went paperless on (some of) those after consolidating a bit, like you I did not want to be logging on to 8 different accounts. With the appropriate settings at Schwab, I am able to see online statements for my accounts as well as spouse's and joint with one log on. I rewarded them for this convenience (and the bonus money that they have paid us), by going paperless. OTOH, Fidelity does not provide this convenience, so HSA accounts there remain on paper.
stan1
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by stan1 »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 5:11 am Interesting that despite the vaunted technical prowess of Fidelity and Schwab, what seems to be driving the new crop of Bogleheads into their open arms is "free" paper.
Waiting for the allegation of a "bait and switch" when Fidelity and Schwab start charging customers that don't generate enough revenue an annual fee for paper statements and a cash management account, after which Schwab's annual report states that profits are up due to revenue from fees and Fidelity's Johnson family is worth $1B more. Brokerages are commodity businesses these days, so the analogy to an airline's profit being attributed mostly to fees seems appropriate. Perhaps Schwab and Fidelity will further separate their brokerage, fund window, institutional, and advisory business segments as Vanguard has done.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
jebmke
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by jebmke »

stan1 wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 9:25 am
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 5:11 am Interesting that despite the vaunted technical prowess of Fidelity and Schwab, what seems to be driving the new crop of Bogleheads into their open arms is "free" paper.
Waiting for the allegation of a "bait and switch" when Fidelity and Schwab start charging customers that don't generate enough revenue an annual fee for paper statements and a cash management account, after which Schwab's annual report states that profits are up due to revenue from fees and Fidelity's Johnson family is worth $1B more. Brokerages are commodity businesses these days, so the analogy to an airline's profit being attributed mostly to fees seems appropriate. Perhaps Schwab and Fidelity will further separate their brokerage, fund window, institutional, and advisory business segments as Vanguard has done.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
or perhaps they extract this in a different form. I seem to recall the yields on their settlement fund assets is below that of VG. But I haven't really paid a lot of attention to it since I don't use the settlement fund except as a pass-through. If true, the yield difference could possibly outweigh the fee that VG charges.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by stan1 »

jebmke wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 9:34 am
stan1 wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 9:25 am
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 5:11 am Interesting that despite the vaunted technical prowess of Fidelity and Schwab, what seems to be driving the new crop of Bogleheads into their open arms is "free" paper.
Waiting for the allegation of a "bait and switch" when Fidelity and Schwab start charging customers that don't generate enough revenue an annual fee for paper statements and a cash management account, after which Schwab's annual report states that profits are up due to revenue from fees and Fidelity's Johnson family is worth $1B more. Brokerages are commodity businesses these days, so the analogy to an airline's profit being attributed mostly to fees seems appropriate. Perhaps Schwab and Fidelity will further separate their brokerage, fund window, institutional, and advisory business segments as Vanguard has done.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
or perhaps they extract this in a different form. I seem to recall the yields on their settlement fund assets is below that of VG. But I haven't really paid a lot of attention to it since I don't use the settlement fund except as a pass-through. If true, the yield difference could possibly outweigh the fee that VG charges.
The BH answer to that would be to hold no cash, but eventually I still expect a for profit business will get around to wanting revenue from those customers in some way. Selling data might be another tricky one. Vanguard's method of collecting nuisance fees is at least transparent, but I do understand it feels like paying extra for an aisle seat on an airplane which is annoying but many of us do it anyways.
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

I prefer the window seat by far.
Clarky
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by Clarky »

stan1 wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 9:25 am
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 5:11 am Interesting that despite the vaunted technical prowess of Fidelity and Schwab, what seems to be driving the new crop of Bogleheads into their open arms is "free" paper.
Waiting for the allegation of a "bait and switch" when Fidelity and Schwab start charging customers that don't generate enough revenue an annual fee for paper statements and a cash management account, after which Schwab's annual report states that profits are up due to revenue from fees and Fidelity's Johnson family is worth $1B more. Brokerages are commodity businesses these days, so the analogy to an airline's profit being attributed mostly to fees seems appropriate. Perhaps Schwab and Fidelity will further separate their brokerage, fund window, institutional, and advisory business segments as Vanguard has done.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
My 401k is at Fidelity. I’m at the age where they must figure I’m in the retirement window, so I’m getting emails about how great and easy it is to rollover to a Fidelity IRA.

Well, that’s nice, but no way. Maybe if you’d have explained to me why my Stable Value fund balance mysteriously dropped one day earlier this year (negative crediting for one day) instead of a lame email response a week later basically saying they see no problem, so far the return on those funds has been $xyz… non-answer. Or currently, if they answer the phone and explain to me why it’s been weeks and their retirement planning software will not update with full or accurate pension information (this has happened before, I guess like in that case I’ll just have to start entering that data manually). Yes, Vanguard has the same retirement module, which always works smoothly, but the more data points the better.

This kind of stuff has been going on since they’ve administered this 401K. I may be a captive audience now, but there’s no way I’m going to voluntarily let this continue. But, with exception of the SV issue, I’ve not started threads about it. My co-worker retired, and he thought nothing of agreeing to a 1% management fee on his rollover IRA at Fidelity, which he thought was mandatory (!) and they did not dissuade them from thinking this (!) It’s all about the fees. I did not start a thread about this either.

It may seem I’m digressing, so my point is, is this $20 fee, that is now $25, that some people may or may not have been informed of, that to my knowledge no one has been charged, that will not be charged if any one of the simplest requirements is met (literally, every single one of us can avoid this fee) a big enough issue to eat up all these forum pages and sever in some cases a long lasting business relationship over (yes, I know the last straw argument, so spare me). Yikes. If retirement means I’m going to have even more inclination to get involved in these types of discussions, maybe I should keep working. This can be the best forum ever sometimes, so like the editorial section of the WSJ, maybe I should just start ignoring stuff I know is going to piss me off. Lol. Over and out (for now).
capran
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by capran »

jebmke wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 9:34 am
stan1 wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 9:25 am
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 5:11 am Interesting that despite the vaunted technical prowess of Fidelity and Schwab, what seems to be driving the new crop of Bogleheads into their open arms is "free" paper.
Waiting for the allegation of a "bait and switch" when Fidelity and Schwab start charging customers that don't generate enough revenue an annual fee for paper statements and a cash management account, after which Schwab's annual report states that profits are up due to revenue from fees and Fidelity's Johnson family is worth $1B more. Brokerages are commodity businesses these days, so the analogy to an airline's profit being attributed mostly to fees seems appropriate. Perhaps Schwab and Fidelity will further separate their brokerage, fund window, institutional, and advisory business segments as Vanguard has done.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
or perhaps they extract this in a different form. I seem to recall the yields on their settlement fund assets is below that of VG. But I haven't really paid a lot of attention to it since I don't use the settlement fund except as a pass-through. If true, the yield difference could possibly outweigh the fee that VG charges.
It is hard for me to do a side by side comparison between Vanguard and Fidelity, as I can't tell what is the most comparable fund. For example, in VMRXX, vanguards prime MMkt fund, the current 7 day yield is 5.05% with an expense ratio of .10%. The one at Fidelity I found with a similar yield was FRGXX. with a 7 day average yield currently at 5.02% and an expense ratio .18%. I recall when I looked at both years ago, Vanguard did have lower expense ratios and higher yields. And I am assuming their S&P 500 funds would have a similar difference. I went ahead and signed up for e delivery. we have a joint brokerage taxable account, as well as an IRA and Roth (hers) and a Roth (mine), and since we were getting 3 statements every month (hers, mine and ours), I assume it would have been $25 x 3 for the year. I believe they said it was per account and not per fund fee. I am concerned about the future however. Last year it was "switch to the brokerage platform to avoid the fee". Now it's "switch to e delivery to avoid the fee". Will next year mean "move your money elsewhere or have 5 million to avoid the fee". so much for the little guy.
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

capran wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:37 am Will next year mean "move your money elsewhere or have 5 million to avoid the fee". so much for the little guy.
Unlikely.
Clarky
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by Clarky »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:56 am
capran wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:37 am Will next year mean "move your money elsewhere or have 5 million to avoid the fee". so much for the little guy.
Unlikely.
Agreed. Vanguard has never treated me like a “little guy.”
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by BigJohn »

capran wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:37 am Will next year mean "move your money elsewhere or have 5 million to avoid the fee". so much for the little guy.
I find this “little guy” mentality on this subject interesting. The world is full of examples of “volume discounts”. Sam’s Club and Costco use it as their business model. But even in other retail stores, the unit price is lower for larger packages. No one characterizes that as a punishment of the little guy. It just a fact of business that fixed costs stay largely the same regardless of size. In this context, a higher price for small volumes makes perfect sense.
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan" - Carl Von Clausewitz
doobiedoo
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by doobiedoo »

This thread illustrates the concept of reference points as described in Daniel Kahneman's book “Thinking, Fast and Slow”.
https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-Sl ... 0374533555

It matters where you start from. For people who received paper statements, taking away that option feels like a loss!
jebmke
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by jebmke »

doobiedoo wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 11:42 am This thread illustrates the concept of reference points as described in Daniel Kahneman's book “Thinking, Fast and Slow”.
https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-Sl ... 0374533555

It matters where you start from. For people who received paper statements, taking away that option feels like a loss!
yes; I doubt there were threads this long when they drastically reduced the assets required to qualify for Admiral status for many of their funds.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
billaster
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by billaster »

capran wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:37 am It is hard for me to do a side by side comparison between Vanguard and Fidelity, as I can't tell what is the most comparable fund. For example, in VMRXX, vanguards prime MMkt fund, the current 7 day yield is 5.05% with an expense ratio of .10%. The one at Fidelity I found with a similar yield was FRGXX. with a 7 day average yield currently at 5.02% and an expense ratio .18%.
FRGXX has a minimum investment of $10 million. VMRXX has a minimum investment of $3,000.
capran
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts [June 2023 update]

Post by capran »

BigJohn wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 11:26 am
capran wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:37 am Will next year mean "move your money elsewhere or have 5 million to avoid the fee". so much for the little guy.
I find this “little guy” mentality on this subject interesting. The world is full of examples of “volume discounts”. Sam’s Club and Costco use it as their business model. But even in other retail stores, the unit price is lower for larger packages. No one characterizes that as a punishment of the little guy. It just a fact of business that fixed costs stay largely the same regardless of size. In this context, a higher price for small volumes makes perfect sense.
Maybe it's just inflation talking when the "higher price for small volumes" defines small volume as two million dollars. Maybe it's just like age bracket creep, like "70 is the new 60". And maybe I not in as good of shape as I thought I was. LOL
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