New fee for Vanguard mutual [and brokerage accounts - July 2023 updates]

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
bmelikia
Posts: 842
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:23 pm

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by bmelikia »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:39 am Good. Long overdue.

Of course, the next thing that will happen is that the rush to change account types to avoid the fees will further overwhelm their systems and call centers. And this is why you don't wait until the last minute to act on an obviously telegraphed move.
I mean. . .perhaps. . .
"I would rather die with money, than live without it...." - Bogleheads member Ron | | A time to EVALUATE your jitters https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1139732#p1139732
User avatar
Wiggums
Posts: 7051
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:02 am

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Wiggums »

quietseas wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:28 pm
TigerNest wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:00 am This is what finally got me to switch out of Vanguard after 20 years. I'm on the phone now with the Rollover departments.

I'm a bank employee that's regulated by FINRA, so I'm not allowed to open new brokerage accounts. They let me keep my Vanguard accounts because they were mutual-fund only, but this "transition" would technically be a new brokerage account and not allowed.

I know my situation is unusual, but I thought I was going to be a Vanguard client for life, ever since I signed up after college. It's sad to go.
You could pay the fee rather than leaving, if you wanted to.
Switching to paperless would also avoid the fee. Experience tells me that the fee could be one dollar and customers would leave.

I sure wouldn’t move my money knowing that I have an approved solution with low cost, well performing funds.

I’m curious what other broker would meet the FINRA requirements.
Last edited by Wiggums on Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I started with nothing and I still have most of it left."
User avatar
jeffyscott
Posts: 13487
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:12 am

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by jeffyscott »

retiredjg wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:50 pm
rkhusky wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:40 pm
retiredjg wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:35 pm
the_wiki wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:28 pm Man, I just can't see why so many people are worried about a $20/year fee to keep an account that serves them well.
It's $20 per fund, so it could be a lot more than just $20.
The OP said each fund account.

It does say each "fund account"...which is confusing. However, when I got my email today, the total was $20 times the number of funds. If a fund was in two accounts (say total stock in both tIRA and Roth IRA) it was counted twice. So I guess that is why it is called "fund account".

How does Vanguard charge their fees? Do they sell shares of a fund? Do they input a debit and then subtract when you get dividends?
There is nothing in the email that indicates how they will do it. But my guess is they will sell shares of something. Whether they sell $20 worth in each fund account or do it by account is anybody's guess.
They say "fund account", because each mutual fund is technically a different "account", even within the same, well, account. Each mutual fund has it's own account number on the mutual fund platform.
User avatar
jeffyscott
Posts: 13487
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:12 am

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by jeffyscott »

Wiggums wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:00 pm
quietseas wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:28 pm
TigerNest wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:00 am This is what finally got me to switch out of Vanguard after 20 years. I'm on the phone now with the Rollover departments.

I'm a bank employee that's regulated by FINRA, so I'm not allowed to open new brokerage accounts. They let me keep my Vanguard accounts because they were mutual-fund only, but this "transition" would technically be a new brokerage account and not allowed.

I know my situation is unusual, but I thought I was going to be a Vanguard client for life, ever since I signed up after college. It's sad to go.
You could pay the fee rather than leaving, if you wanted to.
Switching to paperless would also avoid the fee. The fee could be one dollar and customers would leave.

I sure wouldn’t move my money knowing that I have an approved solution with low cost, well performing funds.

I’m curious what other broker would meet the FINRA requirements.
Paperless does not avoid the $20 fee per mutual fund, if one doesn't convert to a brokerage account.
Vanguard User
Posts: 2191
Joined: Wed May 26, 2021 5:46 pm
Location: Sugar Land, Texas

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Vanguard User »

retiringwhen wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:51 pm
Vanguard User wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:48 pm No. All I have is a taxable VTSAX account. Will I be charged?
If you have less then $1M in the fund, $20/year, assuming you have a mutual fund account and not a brokerage account.
I have everything else at Fidelity. Should I move there? I have a taxable account at Vanguard.
User avatar
galawdawg
Posts: 5231
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:59 am
Location: Georgia

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by galawdawg »

Vanguard User wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:31 pm
retiringwhen wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:51 pm
Vanguard User wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:48 pm No. All I have is a taxable VTSAX account. Will I be charged?
If you have less then $1M in the fund, $20/year, assuming you have a mutual fund account and not a brokerage account.
I have everything else at Fidelity. Should I move there? I have a taxable account at Vanguard.
I'd say "yes", but then you'd have to change your username, :D
retiringwhen
Posts: 4743
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:09 am
Location: New Jersey, USA

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by retiringwhen »

Vanguard User wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:31 pm
retiringwhen wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:51 pm
Vanguard User wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:48 pm No. All I have is a taxable VTSAX account. Will I be charged?
If you have less then $1M in the fund, $20/year, assuming you have a mutual fund account and not a brokerage account.
I have everything else at Fidelity. Should I move there? I have a taxable account at Vanguard.
That's totally up to you, but it is not unreasonable to consolidate. If so, request that Vanguard converts VTSAX to VTI, then do a transfer request from Fidelity.

OTOH, you could upgrade to a Brokerage Account and with your simple situation, you will most likely never know the difference (as do the vast majority of investors).
Vanguard User
Posts: 2191
Joined: Wed May 26, 2021 5:46 pm
Location: Sugar Land, Texas

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Vanguard User »

galawdawg wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:36 pm
Vanguard User wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:31 pm
retiringwhen wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:51 pm
Vanguard User wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:48 pm No. All I have is a taxable VTSAX account. Will I be charged?
If you have less then $1M in the fund, $20/year, assuming you have a mutual fund account and not a brokerage account.
I have everything else at Fidelity. Should I move there? I have a taxable account at Vanguard.
I'd say "yes", but then you'd have to change your username, :D
True. Someone told me this before. I messaged admin but no response.
User avatar
Cheez-It Guy
Posts: 4007
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:20 pm

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

I think that was me!

And now galawdawg is stealing my bad jokes!

(But there's more to life than making shallow, fairly-obvious observations!)
User avatar
retiredjg
Posts: 54082
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:56 am

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by retiredjg »

Vanguard User wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:31 pm
retiringwhen wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:51 pm
Vanguard User wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:48 pm No. All I have is a taxable VTSAX account. Will I be charged?
If you have less then $1M in the fund, $20/year, assuming you have a mutual fund account and not a brokerage account.
I have everything else at Fidelity. Should I move there? I have a taxable account at Vanguard.
I don't think you have said that your taxable account at Vanguard is actually on the old mutual fund platform. Is it? If it is not, you will not be subject to this new charge.

Since you only have one fund account at Vanguard, if you like it there, maybe you want to just wait and see. Paying $20 a year is not that big a deal if it gets you something you want.
User avatar
Munir
Posts: 3200
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:39 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Munir »

retiringwhen wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:50 pm
Munir wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:41 pm Why is Vanguard apparently not interested in merging my old mutual fund only platform into my brokerages account? I have both in my traditional IRA. When I called them and said I'm interested in doing that, they said you should wait until you get an email from us to that effect before we will do anything. Can anyone speculate why they are not proceeding with a merger (update)?
Here is my guess (I know nothing).

- 8 million customers with 2 million that need to be converted after asking for 8 years.
- They made a list and you are #750,000.
- They published the ability to convert you for 8 years, when you could decide anytime and you didn't do anything. Therefore they figure you are not in any hurry.*
- Now they are making a list and following it to keep customer support from being overwhelmed.
- Pushing ahead in line will just make it worse, sort of like having a boarding card with group 3, and trying to get in line during group 1 boarding.

* Now that there is a fee, they fully know the laggards are going to start breaking down the doors, but hey, they gave you chance earlier with clear descriptions of the consequences of delay...

I am being snarky, but the truth is probably pretty close to that.
I agree with you that you are being snarky- and rude. Your facts are inaccurate. I was never informed by Vanguard in the past, nor urged, to change to a brokerage system - nor are they urging me now.
Last edited by Munir on Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
nalor511
Posts: 5060
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:00 am

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by nalor511 »

Munir wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:05 pm
retiringwhen wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:50 pm
Munir wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:41 pm Why is Vanguard apparently not interested in merging my old mutual fund only platform into my brokerages account? I have both in my traditional IRA. When I called them and said I'm interested in doing that, they said you should wait until you get an email from us to that effect before we will do anything. Can anyone speculate why they are not proceeding with a merger (update)?
Here is my guess (I know nothing).

- 8 million customers with 2 million that need to be converted after asking for 8 years.
- They made a list and you are #750,000.
- They published the ability to convert you for 8 years, when you could decide anytime and you didn't do anything. Therefore they figure you are not in any hurry.*
- Now they are making a list and following it to keep customer support from being overwhelmed.
- Pushing ahead in line will just make it worse, sort of like having a boarding card with group 3, and trying to get in line during group 1 boarding.

* Now that there is a fee, they fully know the laggards are going to start breaking down the doors, but hey, they gave you chance earlier with clear descriptions of the consequences of delay...

I am being snarky, but the truth is probably pretty close to that.
I agree with you that you are being snarky- and rude. Your facts are inaccurate. I was never informed by Vanguard in the past, nor urged, to change to a brokerage system - not are they urging me now.
They've been heavily pushing conversion to Brokerage for at least 3 years, I think even longer. Don't know how you missed it (or they missed you). Just luck. After the carrot comes the stick (these new fees). Nothing to get worked up over, it's just the situation. Decide on your course of action and move on it. Or do nothing and see what happens
Last edited by nalor511 on Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Cheez-It Guy
Posts: 4007
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:20 pm

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

But you've been on this forum for 15 years.
User avatar
whodidntante
Posts: 13116
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: outside the echo chamber

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by whodidntante »

I don't understand the fascination some of y'all have with the deprecated form of account. Is it like an old pair of shoes that you just can't bring yourself to throw away, in spite of obvious deficiencies?
Vanguard User
Posts: 2191
Joined: Wed May 26, 2021 5:46 pm
Location: Sugar Land, Texas

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Vanguard User »

retiringwhen wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:36 pm
Vanguard User wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:31 pm
retiringwhen wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:51 pm
Vanguard User wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:48 pm No. All I have is a taxable VTSAX account. Will I be charged?
If you have less then $1M in the fund, $20/year, assuming you have a mutual fund account and not a brokerage account.
I have everything else at Fidelity. Should I move there? I have a taxable account at Vanguard.
That's totally up to you, but it is not unreasonable to consolidate. If so, request that Vanguard converts VTSAX to VTI, then do a transfer request from Fidelity.

OTOH, you could upgrade to a Brokerage Account and with your simple situation, you will most likely never know the difference (as do the vast majority of investors).
Convert to VTI at Vanguard and then transfer VTI to Fidelity?
User avatar
Cheez-It Guy
Posts: 4007
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:20 pm

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

If you want to. Do you make automatic purchases?
User avatar
abuss368
Posts: 27850
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:33 pm
Location: Where the water is warm, the drinks are cold, and I don't know the names of the players!
Contact:

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by abuss368 »

Iorek wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:25 am Anyone else get this email—

“If you choose to remain on the mutual fund-only platform after September 30, 2022, you'll be charged a $20 annual account service fee for each fund account to offset the costs and complexity of maintaining this system. You'll see a fee of $40.00 in your transaction history. Additionally, your account may lose certain features and functionality over time.”

Not really clear why we would see a fee of $40 in our transaction history if the fee is $20 (VTSAX is our only fund) but don’t plan on sticking with the mutual fund account to test what happens.
Well that is a new one! I moved to a brokerage platform and then ETFs years ago. Never had one issue.

Vanguard has only made their website better.

I would recommend investors consider moving sooner than later to avoid last minute changes.

Best.
Tony
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
User avatar
Munir
Posts: 3200
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:39 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Munir »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:13 pm But you've been on this forum for 15 years.
I don't understand your comment. What does the fact that I've been on this forum for 15 years have anything to do with the subject at hand?
User avatar
Eric
Posts: 863
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:44 pm
Location: Texas

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Eric »

whodidntante wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:14 pmI don't understand the fascination some of y'all have with the deprecated form of account.
I converted most of my accounts, but keep one in the "deprecated" form because (1) I like having cumulative / full-year statements for that particular account, and (2) I use the directed-dividends feature so that dividends from one fund are automatically invested in another fund. (Specifically, I am directing the dividends from the Total Stock Market Index Fund to the Total International Stock Index Fund, to gradually increase my international holdings over time.)

I keep another in the deprecated form because it is a solo 401(k) account, and Vanguard does not yet offer the newer account type for those accounts. I'm not sure why they haven't, if it's burdensome for Vanguard to maintain the older account type. They've had many years to make the conversion.

Edit: I see other comments up-thread offering an explanation for the non-conversion of retirement plans, but I'm not sure that explanation applies to the solo 401(k) offering.
Last edited by Eric on Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
retiringwhen
Posts: 4743
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:09 am
Location: New Jersey, USA

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by retiringwhen »

Munir wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:05 pm I agree with you that you are being snarky- and rude. Your facts are inaccurate. I was never informed by Vanguard in the past, nor urged, to change to a brokerage system - not are they urging me now.
If you have never been notified, then it is very likely you are already upgraded (or opened you account after they brokerage was the default option). Are you 100% sure you are still on the MF only platform?

Is you account number of the format: 1234-01234567890? Is there a different 4 digit number at the beginning of the account # for each mutual fund you hold? If so, you are still on the old Mutual Fund account platform.

Or is it of the form 12345678? And there is only one account number for all of your funds held in the account? If so, you you are on the new Vanguard Brokerage Services platform.

The common experience has been that old MF-account users started getting nudges as early as 2015 to upgrade to the new platform. We got nudged on a regular basis until I finally agreed in 2021 after Vanguard fixed the custom beneficiary designation limitations.
User avatar
rob
Posts: 5247
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:49 pm
Location: Here

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by rob »

whodidntante wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:14 pm I don't understand the fascination some of y'all have with the deprecated form of account. Is it like an old pair of shoes that you just can't bring yourself to throw away, in spite of obvious deficiencies?
Read my replies above... It's nothing to do with hiding from tech (in fact I called that out as the usual reply here for this topic) and more to do with large down-sides to moving off the mutual fund only platform to ANY form of brokerage account.
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien
User avatar
galawdawg
Posts: 5231
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:59 am
Location: Georgia

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by galawdawg »

whodidntante wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:14 pm I don't understand the fascination some of y'all have with the deprecated brokerage Vanguard. Is it like an old pair of shoes that you just can't bring yourself to throw away, in spite of obvious deficiencies?
Fixed it for you. :beer
User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 15789
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Kevin M »

abuss368 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:35 pm <snip>

Vanguard has only made their website better.
I think you are in the minority on this one. There's another thread going about how horrible the new funds overview web page is, and there have been many posts from those who dislike (to put it mildly) the new web interface in general. I am among those who very much dislike the changes. Adding a fee is just piling on the dissatisfaction.

Kevin
If I make a calculation error, #Cruncher probably will let me know.
User avatar
Cheez-It Guy
Posts: 4007
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:20 pm

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

Munir wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:49 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:13 pm But you've been on this forum for 15 years.
I don't understand your comment. What does the fact that I've been on this forum for 15 years have anything to do with the subject at hand?
Of course it doesn't mean anything conclusive, but there have been many dozens of threads on Vanguard platform migration, so it's a little surprising for a seasoned forum member and Vanguard customer to not know about this.
User avatar
abuss368
Posts: 27850
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:33 pm
Location: Where the water is warm, the drinks are cold, and I don't know the names of the players!
Contact:

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by abuss368 »

Kevin M wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:13 pm
abuss368 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:35 pm <snip>

Vanguard has only made their website better.
I think you are in the minority on this one. There's another thread going about how horrible the new funds overview web page is, and there have been many posts from those who dislike (to put it mildly) the new web interface in general. I am among those who very much dislike the changes. Adding a fee is just piling on the dissatisfaction.

Kevin
I found the website updates long overdue. I felt they have kind of been improving slowly over time. Can the website conintue to be improved? Absolutely as one can always do better. I would think the upgrades are a work in process.

When I talked with Vanguard a while back, they said retiring the older mutual fund platform to the new platform would drive costs down. The legacy platform required a lot of costs because of age.

Best.
Tony
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
MadHungarian
Posts: 411
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:53 pm

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by MadHungarian »

Well okay, i think it's about time for me to finally transition. Vanguard has had enough time now to work out the bugs, it's not a peak time of year, the markets are relatively stable at the moment, and i suppose this is as good time as any.
Sobbb, old mutual fund platform that i've known and loved for the last 30 years, from back in the days of paper statements, mailed-in deposit checks, and useful annual reports (and also $10 annual fees and .2% expense ratios!), right through to the modern days of everything online.
R.I.P., old mutual fund platform. I'll miss you.
Hello, brave new brokerage account format with your obfuscated monthly statements. Will me and my money meet again on the other side?
User avatar
Cheez-It Guy
Posts: 4007
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:20 pm

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

You'll barely notice the difference.
MadHungarian
Posts: 411
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:53 pm

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by MadHungarian »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:51 pm You'll barely notice the difference.
That's what the two white mice said to Arthur Dent.
sycamore
Posts: 6360
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 12:06 pm

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by sycamore »

MadHungarian wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:48 pm Well okay, i think it's about time for me to finally transition. Vanguard has had enough time now to work out the bugs, it's not a peak time of year, the markets are relatively stable at the moment, and i suppose this is as good time as any.
Sobbb, old mutual fund platform that i've known and loved for the last 30 years, from back in the days of paper statements, mailed-in deposit checks, and useful annual reports (and also $10 annual fees and .2% expense ratios!), right through to the modern days of everything online.
R.I.P., old mutual fund platform. I'll miss you.
Hello, brave new brokerage account format with your obfuscated monthly statements. Will me and my money meet again on the other side?
Bon voyage on your trip to the new platform!
I upgraded years ago and had no problems.

Side note: not to be nitpicky, but whether markets are relatively stable isn't (or shouldn't be) relevant. After the upgrade, you'll have the same funds with the same number of shares as before. (Well, if you didn't have the VG Federal Money Market fund before, you will now because it's the default settlement fund for the brokerage account.) Just pointing this out as there's sometimes confusion about whether an account upgrade implies or requires a mutual fund-to-ETF conversion, which it does not.
User avatar
squirrel1963
Posts: 1253
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:12 am
Location: Portland OR area

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by squirrel1963 »

I converted to brokerage many years ago. It's so much better because:

You can buy anything you want, for instance individual treasury bonds.

You can convert many (most?) mutual funds to the ETF equivalent without impact on the cost basis and usuay ER is lower.
LMP | Liability Matching Portfolio | safe portfolio: TIPS ladder + I-bonds + Treasuries | risky portfolio: US stocks / US REIT / International stocks
User avatar
abuss368
Posts: 27850
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:33 pm
Location: Where the water is warm, the drinks are cold, and I don't know the names of the players!
Contact:

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by abuss368 »

I posted on this years ago after calling Vanguard. Many responses said they can’t force you.

I asked Vanguard and they said simply higher fees and loss of services.

This would result is a transition to the new platform easy.

I am surprised at how many posts this has generated over the years.

I am not surprised by Vanguard’s strategy as they said around 2022.

Best.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 15122
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by anon_investor »

abuss368 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:25 pm I posted on this years ago after calling Vanguard. Many responses said they can’t force you.

I asked Vanguard and they said simply higher fees and loss of services.

This would result is a transition to the new platform easy.

I am surprised at how many posts this has generated over the years.

I am not surprised by Vanguard’s strategy as they said around 2022.

Best.
Vanguard cannot offer a carrot, so they come with a little stick on the form of this fee.
User avatar
Cheez-It Guy
Posts: 4007
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:20 pm

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

It's already working.
User avatar
abuss368
Posts: 27850
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:33 pm
Location: Where the water is warm, the drinks are cold, and I don't know the names of the players!
Contact:

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by abuss368 »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:39 pm It's already working.
What do you do with all the monthly statements? Do you print or download or don’t bother as 7 years are online.

Best.
Tony
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
User avatar
Cheez-It Guy
Posts: 4007
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:20 pm

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

abuss368 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:51 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:39 pm It's already working.
What do you do with all the monthly statements? Do you print or download or don’t bother as 7 years are online.

Best.
Tony
Every few years I download all the statements I haven't already saved and then file them and never look at them again.
retiringwhen
Posts: 4743
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:09 am
Location: New Jersey, USA

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by retiringwhen »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:13 pm Every few years I download all the statements I haven't already saved and then file them and never look at them again.
+1

Although, I did dig up a 2015 statement to find out what the old account format was today for a post on this forum :sharebeer
User avatar
whodidntante
Posts: 13116
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: outside the echo chamber

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by whodidntante »

galawdawg wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:11 pm
whodidntante wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:14 pm I don't understand the fascination some of y'all have with the deprecated brokerage Vanguard. Is it like an old pair of shoes that you just can't bring yourself to throw away, in spite of obvious deficiencies?
Fixed it for you. :beer
:P
ruud
Posts: 765
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:28 pm
Location: san francisco bay area

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by ruud »

abuss368 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:51 pm What do you do with all the monthly statements? Do you print or download or don’t bother as 7 years are online.
What’s the point of a “statement” when there is a transaction history page? The only thing I would care about in printed/downloaded form is the 1099 forms.
.
User avatar
Munir
Posts: 3200
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:39 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Munir »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:17 pm
Munir wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:49 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:13 pm But you've been on this forum for 15 years.
I don't understand your comment. What does the fact that I've been on this forum for 15 years have anything to do with the subject at hand?
Of course it doesn't mean anything conclusive, but there have been many dozens of threads on Vanguard platform migration, so it's a little surprising for a seasoned forum member and Vanguard customer to not know about this.
I never said that I didn't know anything about the subject of platform migration so please get your facts straight. It has been brought up for discussion in the past, as have been many other subjects of finance that I have no interest in. Only in the past few months has the subject of fines (or penalties) been discussed. Anyway, all this irrelevant to your insinuation that I should have known about this and therefore should not question what Vanguard is saying today about it . My question, which remains unanswered, is why doesn't Vanguard accept my request to merge the old platform with the new one since I have accounts in both and supposedly they are trying to accomplish that for all their customers? Apparently only Vanguard can answer this question so let's drop it. It seems that you are fixated on criticizing me personally on unrelated events to what I am asking about. How can I be more clear? I am sure our audience are fatigued by this discussion and I am withdrawing from it.
Investment101
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:09 am

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Investment101 »

lakpr wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:48 pm
Monster99 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:39 pm Dodge and Cox is MF only but they are higher in fees ~0.5%, plus they are prone to throwing substantial amounts of capital gains at year end...
Thanks Monster99!

Not sold on Dodge & Cox. I had, since the morning, browsing the T Rowe Price site, and while the fees are slightly higher, they have the basic ingredients for the 2-fund portfolio (POMIX: Total Stock Market Index, PBDIX: QM US Core Bond Index). The differential in expense ratios, compared to Vanguard, is about 0.2%. On our combined taxable account balances of around $230k, it's $460 extra per year.

I think I will bite the $20*2 = $40 per year fee at Vanguard, since moving to T Rowe Price is much costlier.

NOT HAPPY AT ALL, however.

Why won't you switch over to vanguard brokerage account? I also got the email and found this thread, not sure what to do, pro and cons of switching over etc.


lakpr wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:03 pm
galawdawg wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:43 pm And for those on the MF platform, if you are going to switch anyway...why not consider switching to a brokerage with competent and responsive 24/7 customer service (including via chat and secure message), dedicated personal representatives (generally with just $250k), basic investing costs as low as (or lower than) Vanguard, and a wider array of products and services, including banking. Plus, while Fidelity requires a $1 million transfer to pay a bonus, others (such as Schwab) will pay a transfer bonus for much smaller portfolios. :beer
Are there any other firms that offer a "Mutual Fund" only platform? Otherwise I think we will switch over to Schwab (they have an office within 5 miles from my home).

Is there a difference between those mutual fund only platform, vs non ETF and having mutual fund only in vanguard? Why do you want to switch over for mutual fund only platform??
quietseas
Posts: 901
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:43 pm

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by quietseas »

I'm getting a "I don't want to change at all, but if you are going to make me change by charging $20 I'm gonna go for a big one" vibe here.
User avatar
rob
Posts: 5247
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:49 pm
Location: Here

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by rob »

quietseas wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:27 pm I'm getting a "I don't want to change at all, but if you are going to make me change by charging $20 I'm gonna go for a big one" vibe here.
Yes but it's hardly $20.... My choice right now appears to be: Take the grief of using a brokerage account OR paying almost $1,000 per year extra fees - assuming it really is per account per fund as seems to indicate; although seems no one knows for sure due to the nonsense wording and where you look - to stay on the old platform; you can be sure I'm not rewarding the blackmailer here if I do go to brokerage accounts.

Tax deferred accounts; I would drop Vanguard funds completely in favor of relevant Fido/Schwab/ETF's from non-V. Taxable; I obviously have to keep the Vanguard funds or convert the couple that have ETF share classes before moving (which means I have a transient brokerage acct since I cannot convert outside Vanguard - probably still a reportable event). We have a couple of Vanguard managed 401K's & a 403B but they are so disconnected from the rest that it hardly matters and would eventually be rolled over.
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien
Investment101
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:09 am

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Investment101 »

rob wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:53 pm
quietseas wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:27 pm I'm getting a "I don't want to change at all, but if you are going to make me change by charging $20 I'm gonna go for a big one" vibe here.
Yes but it's hardly $20.... Take the grief of using a brokerage account
Sorry what's so bad about using their brokerage account? I got an email about the fee also so I am doing research on what to do.
lakpr
Posts: 11613
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:59 am

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by lakpr »

Investment101 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:22 pm
lakpr wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:48 pm
Monster99 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:39 pm Dodge and Cox is MF only but they are higher in fees ~0.5%, plus they are prone to throwing substantial amounts of capital gains at year end...
Thanks Monster99!

Not sold on Dodge & Cox. I had, since the morning, browsing the T Rowe Price site, and while the fees are slightly higher, they have the basic ingredients for the 2-fund portfolio (POMIX: Total Stock Market Index, PBDIX: QM US Core Bond Index). The differential in expense ratios, compared to Vanguard, is about 0.2%. On our combined taxable account balances of around $230k, it's $460 extra per year.

I think I will bite the $20*2 = $40 per year fee at Vanguard, since moving to T Rowe Price is much costlier.

NOT HAPPY AT ALL, however.

Why won't you switch over to vanguard brokerage account? I also got the email and found this thread, not sure what to do, pro and cons of switching over etc.


lakpr wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:03 pm
galawdawg wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:43 pm And for those on the MF platform, if you are going to switch anyway...why not consider switching to a brokerage with competent and responsive 24/7 customer service (including via chat and secure message), dedicated personal representatives (generally with just $250k), basic investing costs as low as (or lower than) Vanguard, and a wider array of products and services, including banking. Plus, while Fidelity requires a $1 million transfer to pay a bonus, others (such as Schwab) will pay a transfer bonus for much smaller portfolios. :beer
Are there any other firms that offer a "Mutual Fund" only platform? Otherwise I think we will switch over to Schwab (they have an office within 5 miles from my home).

Is there a difference between those mutual fund only platform, vs non ETF and having mutual fund only in vanguard? Why do you want to switch over for mutual fund only platform??
I work in the financial industry and for Compliance reasons I must report both my and my wife's brokerage accounts. Mutual Fund only platforms are exempt from reporting.

Not sure about you, but I feel that is the equivalent of someone knowing what underwear you are wearing and its color. And you are forced to volunteer that information monthly.
User avatar
rob
Posts: 5247
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:49 pm
Location: Here

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by rob »

Investment101 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:59 pm Sorry what's so bad about using their brokerage account? I got an email about the fee also so I am doing research on what to do.
See one of my rants above..... Basically as the last reply - some people highly desire to use MF only accounts for employment related requirements. If they use brokerage accts then there are requirements around reporting and usually requirements around what firm can hold those. There are also a number of other gaps...
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien
Investment101
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:09 am

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Investment101 »

rob wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:17 pm
Investment101 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:59 pm Sorry what's so bad about using their brokerage account? I got an email about the fee also so I am doing research on what to do.
See one of my rants above..... Basically as the last reply - some people highly desire to use MF only accounts for employment related requirements. If they use brokerage accts then there are requirements around reporting and usually requirements around what firm can hold those. There are also a number of other gaps...
I see thanks for that.

Yeah I definitely want to keep the color of my underwear private too.
Investment101
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:09 am

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Investment101 »

So to change over to brokerage account, just click the link in the email and it will switch from the mutual fund only account to Vanguard Brokerage Account right? Anything else like check back later if they transferred everything over ok or additional steps? I will need to set up ACH transfer and settings like “reinvest dividends” right? Or will all those settings transfer over too?

I read that some people don’t like Vanguard did this and few have switch over to fidelity, I am just buying and hold for long term and not buying/selling often like ETF, this new account shouldn’t affect me right? Or should I switch since Vanguard has changed. (From mutual fund only to pushing you toward ETF and make as much money as possible)
tibbitts
Posts: 23728
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by tibbitts »

Investment101 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:40 pm So to change over to brokerage account, just click the link in the email and it will switch from the mutual fund only account to Vanguard Brokerage Account right? Anything else like check back later if they transferred everything over ok or additional steps? I will need to set up ACH transfer and settings like “reinvest dividends” right? Or will all those settings transfer over too?

I read that some people don’t like Vanguard did this and few have switch over to fidelity, I am just buying and hold for long term and not buying/selling often like ETF, this new account shouldn’t affect me right? Or should I switch since Vanguard has changed. (From mutual fund only to pushing you toward ETF and make as much money as possible)
Part of the problem is that some settings can't transfer over. For example if you have dividends from Fund A directed to Fund B (as many of us do), that can't be done on the brokerage platform as far as I know.
Northern Flicker
Posts: 15365
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:29 am

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Northern Flicker »

Mike Scott wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:19 pm Transitioning your account is less effort than typing into this discussion. Just do it.
+1
You still can hold mutual funds with the new combined platform.
Northern Flicker
Posts: 15365
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:29 am

Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Northern Flicker »

tibbitts wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:46 am
Investment101 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:40 pm So to change over to brokerage account, just click the link in the email and it will switch from the mutual fund only account to Vanguard Brokerage Account right? Anything else like check back later if they transferred everything over ok or additional steps? I will need to set up ACH transfer and settings like “reinvest dividends” right? Or will all those settings transfer over too?

I read that some people don’t like Vanguard did this and few have switch over to fidelity, I am just buying and hold for long term and not buying/selling often like ETF, this new account shouldn’t affect me right? Or should I switch since Vanguard has changed. (From mutual fund only to pushing you toward ETF and make as much money as possible)
Part of the problem is that some settings can't transfer over. For example if you have dividends from Fund A directed to Fund B (as many of us do), that can't be done on the brokerage platform as far as I know.
Mostly correct. The combined platform can direct distributions from Fund A to Fund A or to VMFXX (the settlement fund Federal MMF).

On the other hand, it waives minimum balance requirements for VMFXX, and you have the option to hold ETFs in the same account.
Post Reply