New fee for Vanguard mutual [and brokerage accounts - July 2023 updates]

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nps
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by nps »

jeffyscott wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 9:33 am
nps wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 9:26 am
criticalmass wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:07 am Did anyone receive the new fee in September?

As of Monday October 3, I do not see any fees on my mutual fund account to date.
I also did not receive a notice warning a fee is coming---the only news I have heard of it has been via this website.

But September may only be the last date for "free" mutual accounts, so the fee could still appear by year end, I suppose. We'll see. They will need to warn me in advance in writing if they wish to charge a fee.
A family member is on the old platform and was charged $20 for each mutual fund account this week. This is after having never received any communication of the new fee from Vanguard.
That matches the timing that they'd given me via secure message (only after I had asked about it back in August):

September 30: Client deadline to act to avoid this fee.
October 22 - 26: Clients who did not act will be assessed the fee.

viewtopic.php?p=6816037&#p6816037
Update on this: all $20 fees were reimbursed on 12/2 following conversion to brokerage account in November. They were each deposited into the settlement fund and listed as "Vanguard Brokerage Account Fee."
sophiainvests
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by sophiainvests »

Thanks for the update! As for me: Didn't get my reimbursements yet. Am wondering since I had such a hard time converting in Nov. if my conversions didn't get noted as they should have. On the other hand, I was told reimbursements would come first week in Dec, so will give them a little more time.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by sophiainvests »

PS. I was told verbally reimbursement of the fee would be first week in December and think I saw it on the banner that showed up on my account only AFTER I was charged the fee. However, I just looked at the pitiful note Vanguard Compliance wrote me in response to my SEC complaint and they say "in December." Still stewing about this. It seems to me that there may be significant numbers of people that did not get advance notice of these fees. Will probably write FINRA, but a little bogged down a the moment. Meantime, I am really happy that another complaint of mine to Vanguard, in this case about mistitling of my accounts (was writing letters and spending a couple hours on the phone with them in July about this and then just picked it up again in November in tandem with the fee issue) has been mostly resolved. Took awhile, but nice to see that a real result can be achieved. I was almost afraid to look - afraid that things got messed up and haven't looked too closely, so fingers crossed.

Meantime, I see a downside to the transitioning is that I cannot easily see the history of my mutual fund accounts online prior to the transition. Is there an easy way to see the history of closed accounts online?
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Mudpuppy »

sophiainvests wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:48 pm Thanks for the update! As for me: Didn't get my reimbursements yet. Am wondering since I had such a hard time converting in Nov. if my conversions didn't get noted as they should have. On the other hand, I was told reimbursements would come first week in Dec, so will give them a little more time.
Oh god, it was even worse for me.... I got the $60 credit, and then immediately got $20 per mutual fund deducted again. So I guess I'm messaging them to ask "what the heck Vanguard?"

Edit: I've sent a strongly worded secure message to Vanguard, that will probably get ignored. I guess my first task of winter vacation in two weeks will be moving my assets to Fidelity. Too bad I missed out on the new Fidelity account offer that expired before Vanguard posted that they'd charged me the fee AGAIN on the brokerage platform, even though I confirmed that I'm still in electronic-only delivery mode on my profile page.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by sophiainvests »

Mudpuppy - That's terrible!

I keep thinking I need to go into therapy to be able to finally let go of Vanguard. It's like a relationship that was once good, but now bad, but hard to let go ; ) For me it's beyond the annoyance - it's more the concern that if they botch simple things up so royally, how can we feel confident having our money there? Still I haven't taken any steps to move on.

For what it's worth, I was told the paper statements fee will not be charged until Aug. 2023, but I guess that could be wrong. Still if that is what it is, it should have just been $20 per brokerage not per mutual fund.
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nps
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by nps »

Mudpuppy wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:12 am
sophiainvests wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:48 pm Thanks for the update! As for me: Didn't get my reimbursements yet. Am wondering since I had such a hard time converting in Nov. if my conversions didn't get noted as they should have. On the other hand, I was told reimbursements would come first week in Dec, so will give them a little more time.
Oh god, it was even worse for me.... I got the $60 credit, and then immediately got $20 per mutual fund deducted again. So I guess I'm messaging them to ask "what the heck Vanguard?"
Are you sure you are not just looking at the"sweep in" transactions that can look like account debits?
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Mudpuppy »

nps wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:27 am
Mudpuppy wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:12 am
sophiainvests wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:48 pm Thanks for the update! As for me: Didn't get my reimbursements yet. Am wondering since I had such a hard time converting in Nov. if my conversions didn't get noted as they should have. On the other hand, I was told reimbursements would come first week in Dec, so will give them a little more time.
Oh god, it was even worse for me.... I got the $60 credit, and then immediately got $20 per mutual fund deducted again. So I guess I'm messaging them to ask "what the heck Vanguard?"
Are you sure you are not just looking at the"sweep in" transactions that can look like account debits?
It specifically said "Fee" next to the $20 transactions.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Mudpuppy »

Okay, now that I've looked at this again after having some chance to calm down, there is the possibility that the activity tab is just confusing as to what has actually happened. Last night, I was just looking at the summary Activity, which had something akin to the following (removing identifying information):

Code: Select all

Fee           <Account ID>       Vanguard Brokerage Account Fee       $20.00
Fee           <Account ID>       Vanguard Brokerage Account Fee       $20.00
Fee           <Account ID>       Vanguard Brokerage Account Fee       $20.00
Sweep in      <Account ID>       Vanguard Federal Money Market       -$60.00
So you can see why I was very alarmed seeing that last night.

However, tonight I had calmed down enough to look deeply at the detailed activity list. In that list, I see something akin to:

Code: Select all

CASH          Fee              $20.00
CASH          Fee              $20.00
CASH          Fee              $20.00
VMFXX         Sweep In        -$60.00
I notice the December fee says it applies to "cash", whereas the November fee had specifically been applied to VBTLX, VTIAX, and VTSAX. The November fee also showed how many shares were cashed in, while the December "fee" has nothing listed in that column.

So now I am wondering, do the brokerage accounts use some sort of double-entry accounting methodology for the Activity tab? The old system doesn't do that. If you had a transaction on the old system, there would be only one line-item entry for it. But looking at how the dividends were handled for VBTLX in the end of November in the brokerage account, I'm thinking that the brokerage accounts do use something akin to double-entry, because there were two entries for the VBTLX dividends, one positive and one negative.

And if that's the case, you'd think they'd use something a little less alarming for the summary activity list, like putting the word "refund" onto the beginning or end of the long description. Seeing "Refund: Vanguard Account Fee" in the activity summary would have been very clear, unlike seeing what is actually there: "Vanguard Brokerage Account Fee". The word "brokerage" in the title was what really sent me into the emotional deep-end last night, because the fee taken out in November was not a brokerage account fee.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by sophiainvests »

Hi Mudpuppy - thanks for sharing. Just wanted to say that I have always been challenged by this kind of accounting (have seen it at other brokerages too). Regardless, I agree that use of the term "fee" is misleading, but also am not surprised a clearer specification wasn't chosen given the history of how this whole fee thing has been dealt with. I'll leave it to the experts for more confirmation, but to me it looks like you got reimbursed rather than charged and they simply moved the reimbursement to the sweep (not that I understand "where" the reimbursement was before it went into the sweep!). Among my many discussions with Vanguard about the fee and its reimbursement, it was pretty clear to me that to charge the fee they cashed in $20 worth of shares from each and every mutual fund in the type of account that offends them (so that owner will be liable for capital gains tax on that if in taxable account!.). And that for those that convert/ move mutual funds to brokerage on time, the refund would come as cash into the brokerage account. I would have expected they would have reimbursed a single $60 in your case, but guess I can see the logic of the three $20s.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by 2cents2 »

Except for one account for which I had POA, all of our other Vanguard accounts were either transitioned or rolled over a few years ago. Losing POA was the sticking point as the account owner has not always been available to complete new POA paperwork. This last account was finally transitioned a couple of months ago, but reestablishing POA failed. I was under the impression that 3 questions needed to be answered by the Agent and POA would be restored (I answered the questions and submitted and received an error that the link had expired or had been already used). Several phone calls to customer service failed. A request to speak to a supervisor failed (call back occurred at a random time when I was unavailable--voice mail said to call the regular customer service # if issue had not been resolved :oops: )

The plan was to roll over the Vanguard account if the POA at Vanguard did not get reestablished since it would be necessary to fill out new POA paperwork anyway. New account at another brokerage has been established. New POA paperwork has been filled out (filled out in person, with new brokerage providing notary and 2 witnesses). We are now just waiting for the dividends to post at Vanguard before doing the direct rollover.

I'm sure it won't hurt Vanguard's feelings when we leave, but I do have similar feelings to what sophia expressed, "It's like a relationship that was once good, but now bad, but hard to let go ..."
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by LadyGeek »

The new fee was the reason I moved my Mom's accounts to Fidelity under POA. I highly recommend creating a new online account for this person as POA. You'll be able to do everything that's needed. "Acting" as POA under your personal account does not give you complete flexibility.

See Re: Finding out your Power of Attorney is useless and the follow-up posts for how I did exactly that.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Mudpuppy »

Mudpuppy wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:06 am So now I am wondering, do the brokerage accounts use some sort of double-entry accounting methodology for the Activity tab? The old system doesn't do that. If you had a transaction on the old system, there would be only one line-item entry for it. But looking at how the dividends were handled for VBTLX in the end of November in the brokerage account, I'm thinking that the brokerage accounts do use something akin to double-entry, because there were two entries for the VBTLX dividends, one positive and one negative.

And if that's the case, you'd think they'd use something a little less alarming for the summary activity list, like putting the word "refund" onto the beginning or end of the long description. Seeing "Refund: Vanguard Account Fee" in the activity summary would have been very clear, unlike seeing what is actually there: "Vanguard Brokerage Account Fee". The word "brokerage" in the title was what really sent me into the emotional deep-end last night, because the fee taken out in November was not a brokerage account fee.
I did finally get a response from Vanguard last week which confirmed the double-entry accounting I asked about above, but didn't address why the entry was so poorly labeled as "Vanguard Brokerage Account Fee" instead of clearly labeling it as a refund of the November fee. They did confirm that my account does now meet the fee exemption conditions and would not be charged a fee again next year.

They also did not acknowledge that the email warning about the fee for the old platform was never sent to me, and instead regurgitated a script about the notification campaign. Perhaps the representative didn't realize the significance of me being able to check mail server logs for the registered email address and finding absolutely no record of the email. The mail server logs don't make mistakes like humans might. Either their system never sent the email or it was lost "in the ether" prior to final delivery to the mail server.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

just got an email saying each vanguard brokerage account will go up to $25/year with the following exceptions:
We've also updated our Vanguard Brokerage Services commission & fee schedules, effective June 1, 2023. The annual account service fee per Vanguard Brokerage Account is now $25. We don't charge this fee to any of the following:

Clients who've elected e-delivery of statements and the annual privacy policy notice; confirmations; reports, prospectuses, and proxy materials; and notices, amendments, and other important account updates.
Clients enrolled in an advisory program serviced by an affiliate of Vanguard (e.g., Vanguard Digital Advisor, Vanguard Personal Advisor).
Clients with at least $5 million in qualifying Vanguard assets.
Clients who have an organization or a trust account registered under an employee identification number (EIN).
so the fee went up 25%!
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:55 am just got an email saying each vanguard brokerage account will go up to $25/year with the following exceptions:
We've also updated our Vanguard Brokerage Services commission & fee schedules, effective June 1, 2023. The annual account service fee per Vanguard Brokerage Account is now $25. We don't charge this fee to any of the following:

Clients who've elected e-delivery of statements and the annual privacy policy notice; confirmations; reports, prospectuses, and proxy materials; and notices, amendments, and other important account updates.
Clients enrolled in an advisory program serviced by an affiliate of Vanguard (e.g., Vanguard Digital Advisor, Vanguard Personal Advisor).
Clients with at least $5 million in qualifying Vanguard assets.
Clients who have an organization or a trust account registered under an employee identification number (EIN).
so the fee went up 25%!
Oh my! Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin. Eh, it was nice while it lasted.

This time we are affected. I liked getting the household statements on heavier paper and already three hole punched for my binder.

I guess I need to order some heavier stock paper.

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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by sophiainvests »

I didn't receive the email, but that doesn't surprise me. So glad I am now signed up for this thread!!! Does anyone know the "deadline" to switch to electronic?

When I was talking to Vanguard staff a while back regarding the unexpected fee for the mutual fund accounts that I was charged, someone from the brokerage told me this "paper statements" fee would not be charged until August 2023. I think he said that August is when annual fees happen, but I can't remember for sure why it was estimated to be August. I feel like I was also told the minimum to avoid the fee was $1 million, not $5 million... though I was trying to check if that was $1 M in Vanguard branded assets or for everything in the account and I thought he told me everything, which is different than the minimum to avoid the mutual fund fee which was $1 M in Vanguard branded assets.

Since you just received an email that says it's effective June 2023, does that mean that we'll all be charged in June? Or does it seem like August is when it will happen?
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

FWIW, I wondered if I had to change delivery options on all the accounts other than mine that are included on my household statement.

This is part of the email I just received acknowledging my change of my profile to stop paper household statements:

"...This change applies to all eligible Vanguard accounts that are:

Registered under your taxpayer identification number;
Listed with you as custodian for a minor;
Trust or organization accounts on which you're authorized to elect delivery settings; and
Included in Household Statement Groups for which you're the recipient...."

Seems I don't have to change anyone who is part of my household statement.

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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by bdoran »

This E-Mail leaves a lot to be desired. Are receiving Tax Forms by mail included? If Husband & Wife joint accounts have 6 million with husband primary, but wife has IRA of $200,000 is this subject to fee? When are fees charged? Does Vanguard just not want accounts under 5 million, why not just say so? I think getting E-mail on June 1 for changes effective June 1 is not cool. First the push to convert to Brokerage and then find out new fees are on all accounts. I have recommended Vanguard to family and friends in the past but doubt I can do it in the future.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

I think it's purposely ambiguous as seems to be the current Vanguard style. Tax forms are not listed explicitly, so most likely they would continue to let that slide if all else was set to e-Delivery, but I think now is the time to pull the plug on parental preferences for paper mailings. It is not worth my time to fight a fee if assessed, so I'm planning to move to unambiguously avoid it on all accounts, both now and in the future.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Mudpuppy »

sophiainvests wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:35 am I didn't receive the email, but that doesn't surprise me. So glad I am now signed up for this thread!!! Does anyone know the "deadline" to switch to electronic?
I also did not receive this email, just like I didn't receive the email last year warning about the fee for staying on the legacy platform. I get prospectus and statement emails without issue, but for some reason I don't seem to get these rather critical announcement emails. I guess I should keep multiple copies of the reply from Vanguard's customer service last year that my account (edit: after the brokerage conversion) is of the proper type to not be charged fees this year, just in case.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by exodusNH »

Mudpuppy wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:05 pm
sophiainvests wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:35 am I didn't receive the email, but that doesn't surprise me. So glad I am now signed up for this thread!!! Does anyone know the "deadline" to switch to electronic?
I also did not receive this email, just like I didn't receive the email last year warning about the fee for staying on the legacy platform. I get prospectus and statement emails without issue, but for some reason I don't seem to get these rather critical announcement emails. I guess I should keep multiple copies of the reply from Vanguard's customer service last year that my account (edit: after the brokerage conversion) is of the proper type to not be charged fees this year, just in case.
I received the email today at 1:47 PM. The email came from vanguard@eonline.e-vanguard.com.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by jebmke »

exodusNH wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:08 pm
Mudpuppy wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:05 pm
sophiainvests wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:35 am I didn't receive the email, but that doesn't surprise me. So glad I am now signed up for this thread!!! Does anyone know the "deadline" to switch to electronic?
I also did not receive this email, just like I didn't receive the email last year warning about the fee for staying on the legacy platform. I get prospectus and statement emails without issue, but for some reason I don't seem to get these rather critical announcement emails. I guess I should keep multiple copies of the reply from Vanguard's customer service last year that my account (edit: after the brokerage conversion) is of the proper type to not be charged fees this year, just in case.
I received the email today at 1:47 PM. The email came from vanguard@eonline.e-vanguard.com.
maybe it is being sent out in waves. I usually get messages like this in my VG message center; there is nothing there yet. At my request, they don't send me any email that isn't legally required (this, of course could be one that is).
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Clarky »

There are still multiple ways to avoid the fee. Always has been. Electronic statements, etc. are great.

You can get 1099s electronically as well.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by gotoparks »

I got the email and I thought they always charge a fee for paper copies. I wouldn't want my tax form in the mail anyways. I think all that has changed is the fee went from 20 to 25. I've never paid a fee for my accounts.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by jeffyscott »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:56 pm I think it's purposely ambiguous as seems to be the current Vanguard style. Tax forms are not listed explicitly, so most likely they would continue to let that slide if all else was set to e-Delivery, but I think now is the time to pull the plug on parental preferences for paper mailings. It is not worth my time to fight a fee if assessed, so I'm planning to move to unambiguously avoid it on all accounts, both now and in the future.
I seem to recall that when you go to the actual paperless sign up page, it does make it clear that paper tax forms are an exception and will not, by themselves, subject you to the fee :?: .

Still says $1 million and $20 here:
https://investor.vanguard.com/client-be ... count-fees

but updated here:
https://investor.vanguard.com/client-be ... ommissions

That shows that the $20 per mutual fund, on the mutual fund only accounts, also goes $25, with the waiver at $5 million. This fee was just implemented at $20, with $1 million waiver, about 6-8 months ago.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

exodusNH wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:08 pm
Mudpuppy wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:05 pm
sophiainvests wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:35 am I didn't receive the email, but that doesn't surprise me. So glad I am now signed up for this thread!!! Does anyone know the "deadline" to switch to electronic?
I also did not receive this email, just like I didn't receive the email last year warning about the fee for staying on the legacy platform. I get prospectus and statement emails without issue, but for some reason I don't seem to get these rather critical announcement emails. I guess I should keep multiple copies of the reply from Vanguard's customer service last year that my account (edit: after the brokerage conversion) is of the proper type to not be charged fees this year, just in case.
I received the email today at 1:47 PM. The email came from vanguard@eonline.e-vanguard.com.
My email came at 12:10 PM. My email stating my change to all electronic delivery was completed came at 12:28 PM. Easy to change, I just went to Profile and account settings, then Mail preferences and alerts, then Delivery settings. Done.

$75 cost avoided, less what my printer ink and paper will cost. I don't necessarily need paper statements, but I think it will be easier for those helping DW and I as we suffer cognitive decline, as we most likely will experience at some point in time.

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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by jeffyscott »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:19 pm I don't necessarily need paper statements, but I think it will be easier for those helping DW and I as we suffer cognitive decline, as we most likely will experience at some point in time.
I'm not sure what use old paper statements could ever possibly be? I have never done anything with them, after reviewing upon receipt, except shove them in a box with each year's tax return, never to be looked at again.

After consolidating most assets there, we went paperless at Schwab, even though there's no fee. I'll probably download PDFs of all the statements at the end of the year, though even that step seems unnecessary. I'm staying with paper for tax forms, mainly just so there's something as a fail-safe reminder of the accounts' existence.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Munir »

My reading of the Vanguard email received earlier today is that the new $25 fee applies only to brokerage accounts. If you never created a brokerage account, then you are not liable for the fee. Is that correct?
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by tj »

Munir wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:40 pm My reading of the Vanguard email received earlier today is that the new $25 fee applies only to brokerage accounts. If you never created a brokerage account, then you are not liable for the fee. Is that correct?
You're getting charged per fund if you don't have a brokerage account. The brokerage account is the better deal.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

jeffyscott wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:46 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:56 pm I think it's purposely ambiguous as seems to be the current Vanguard style. Tax forms are not listed explicitly, so most likely they would continue to let that slide if all else was set to e-Delivery, but I think now is the time to pull the plug on parental preferences for paper mailings. It is not worth my time to fight a fee if assessed, so I'm planning to move to unambiguously avoid it on all accounts, both now and in the future.
I seem to recall that when you go to the actual paperless sign up page, it does make it clear that paper tax forms are an exception and will not, by themselves, subject you to the fee :?: .
You are correct, but in the past there were multiple attainable ways to qualify for free paper statements if desired. Now that we are down to one based on circumstance, I no longer trust that the ambiguity won't result in a situation where we get charged a fee in error. I also think Vanguard will and should continue down this path to reduce costs, so I just want to take it off the table permanently rather than kicking the can down the road for another year. I've been on digital statements and tax forms for many years without issue.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by jeffyscott »

tj wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:44 pm
Munir wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:40 pm My reading of the Vanguard email received earlier today is that the new $25 fee applies only to brokerage accounts. If you never created a brokerage account, then you are not liable for the fee. Is that correct?
You're getting charged per fund if you don't have a brokerage account. The brokerage account is the better deal.
Also, no paperless exemption for mutual fund only accounts, there's only the $5 million exemption.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

jeffyscott wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:39 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:19 pm I don't necessarily need paper statements, but I think it will be easier for those helping DW and I as we suffer cognitive decline, as we most likely will experience at some point in time.
I'm not sure what use old paper statements could ever possibly be? I have never done anything with them, after reviewing upon receipt, except shove them in a box with each year's tax return, never to be looked at again.

After consolidating most assets there, we went paperless at Schwab, even though there's no fee. I'll probably download PDFs of all the statements at the end of the year, though even that step seems unnecessary. I'm staying with paper for tax forms, mainly just so there's something as a fail-safe reminder of the accounts' existence.
I have no idea what issues could arise, therefore I feel it best for our daughter to be able to have the accounts histories in a format such that I can tell her that "all our Vanguard history is in the green binders on the bookcase." Overkill, yeah, probably.

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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by mkc »

jeffyscott wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:59 pm
tj wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:44 pm
Munir wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:40 pm My reading of the Vanguard email received earlier today is that the new $25 fee applies only to brokerage accounts. If you never created a brokerage account, then you are not liable for the fee. Is that correct?
You're getting charged per fund if you don't have a brokerage account. The brokerage account is the better deal.
Also, no paperless exemption for mutual fund only accounts, there's only the $5 million exemption.
We have both MF and brokerage accounts and less than the $5 million exemption, and have not been charged fees for any. We do have electronic delivery for all accounts.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by jeffyscott »

^ Exemption criterion has been $1 million, perhaps that's why you've not yet been charged for the legacy MF only accounts?
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Weathering »

(Redacted)
Last edited by Weathering on Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
exodusNH
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by exodusNH »

Weathering wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:19 pm Does anyone else have custodial Roth IRA accounts that cannot be changed to eDelivery of statements?

I have a custodial Roth IRA account for my 19-year-old. I had planned to wait until he is 21 years old to have him manage it, but today Vanguard said it could not be changed to eDelivery of statements. Therefore, the account will be charged the annual $25 fee until my son sets up a Vanguard account and transfers the custodial account into his new account (at which time he can select eDelivery of statements to stop the annual fee).
Maybe transfer it to Fidelity or Schwab?
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Danw »

If one has mutual fund accounts below 5 million, is there any way to avoid the new fees?
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Nver2Late »

I think I'm going to let it ride for now. I guess if I'm paying $150 in new fees, I might as well log-in and switch back to all paper.
"Better is the enemy of good." Good is good.
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Harry Livermore
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Harry Livermore »

I'm gonna pay it and continue receiving my paper statements. While I'm at it, I might request paper prospectuses for a few dozen funds I'm "interested" in, every quarter. I want to get my $25 worth.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by sophiainvests »

In the past, I had understood that some types of accounts that required paper statements (did not allow you to go electronic) were exempt from the fee even if they didn't meet the minimum (at that time the minimum being more like $3,000 or $10,000 ; ). I think it was pooled accounts that I heard this about, but I would wonder if custodial accounts are going to be the same. If they don't allow the account type to go electronic it seems weird that they would charge the fee.. My impression is that the ones that don't allow electronic now, however, may in the future and then they might after institute the fee for them as well - it's something they are working on I think. Also with my "pooled account" I still have separate mutual fund platform and they are not charging for those, but now I'm guessing they might start in the future
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Mudpuppy »

Danw wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:32 pm If one has mutual fund accounts below 5 million, is there any way to avoid the new fees?
Opting for e-delivery is probably the easiest pathway for most people, but refer to the pasted message from arcticpineapplecorp for the complete list:
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:55 am We don't charge this fee to any of the following:

Clients who've elected e-delivery of statements and the annual privacy policy notice; confirmations; reports, prospectuses, and proxy materials; and notices, amendments, and other important account updates.
Clients enrolled in an advisory program serviced by an affiliate of Vanguard (e.g., Vanguard Digital Advisor, Vanguard Personal Advisor).
Clients with at least $5 million in qualifying Vanguard assets.
Clients who have an organization or a trust account registered under an employee identification number (EIN).
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

wonder if the extra $5 they're charging is their way of getting money to pay the $800,000 Finra fine. :twisted:
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Danw
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Danw »

Mudpuppy wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:58 pm
Danw wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:32 pm If one has mutual fund accounts below 5 million, is there any way to avoid the new fees?
Opting for e-delivery is probably the easiest pathway for most people, but refer to the pasted message from arcticpineapplecorp for the complete list:
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:55 am We don't charge this fee to any of the following:

Clients who've elected e-delivery of statements and the annual privacy policy notice; confirmations; reports, prospectuses, and proxy materials; and notices, amendments, and other important account updates.
Clients enrolled in an advisory program serviced by an affiliate of Vanguard (e.g., Vanguard Digital Advisor, Vanguard Personal Advisor).


Clients with at least $5 million in qualifying Vanguard assets.
Clients who have an organization or a trust account registered under an employee identification number (EIN).

I think that exception only applies to brokerage accounts.
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Brokerage Fee now $25 per account if < 5 million?

Post by trailmk »

[Thread merged into here --admin LadyGeek]

I received Vanguard's Updates to Form CRS and the Vanguard Brokerage Services commission & fee schedules today. The email states:

We've also updated our Vanguard Brokerage Services commission & fee schedules, effective June 1, 2023. The annual account service fee per Vanguard Brokerage Account is now $25. We don't charge this fee to any of the following:

Clients who've elected e-delivery of statements and the annual privacy policy notice; confirmations; reports, prospectuses, and proxy materials; and notices, amendments, and other important account updates.
Clients enrolled in an advisory program serviced by an affiliate of Vanguard (e.g., Vanguard Digital Advisor, Vanguard Personal Advisor).
Clients with at least $5 million in qualifying Vanguard assets.
Clients who have an organization or a trust account registered under an employee identification number (EIN).


I thought the threshold had been $1 million to avoid the brokerage account fee. I have elected e-delivery for everything but our IRS forms. We are approaching our 80's and I need to have paper copies mailed in case my husband outlives me.

Am I misremembering or is this a change?
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jeffyscott
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by jeffyscott »

Danw wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:32 pm
Mudpuppy wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:58 pm
Danw wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:32 pm If one has mutual fund accounts below 5 million, is there any way to avoid the new fees?
Opting for e-delivery is probably the easiest pathway for most people, but refer to the pasted message from arcticpineapplecorp for the complete list:
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:55 am We don't charge this fee to any of the following:

Clients who've elected e-delivery of statements and the annual privacy policy notice; confirmations; reports, prospectuses, and proxy materials; and notices, amendments, and other important account updates.
Clients enrolled in an advisory program serviced by an affiliate of Vanguard (e.g., Vanguard Digital Advisor, Vanguard Personal Advisor).


Clients with at least $5 million in qualifying Vanguard assets.
Clients who have an organization or a trust account registered under an employee identification number (EIN).

I think that exception only applies to brokerage accounts.
Yep:

Mutual fund-only accounts:
$25 for each Vanguard mutual fund. We'll waive the fee if you have at least $5 million in qualifying Vanguard assets. Refer to the applicable fund prospectus for other exclusions that may apply.

and
How you can avoid the fee
If you’re the primary account owner, you can eliminate the fee on brokerage accounts by signing up for e-delivery of...

https://investor.vanguard.com/client-be ... ommissions

So the way to avoid all fees with less than $5 million is to convert to a brokerage account and choose paperless.
erp
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Re: Brokerage Fee now $25 per account if < 5 million?

Post by erp »

You may be ok since the requirement doesn't include tax documents.

But the wayback machine says you are correct https://web.archive.org/web/20230531105 ... count-fees
$20 for each account. Vanguard Brokerage Services® won’t assess the fee if a client’s total qualifying Vanguard assets are at least $1 million.
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celia
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by celia »

jeffyscott wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:39 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:19 pm I don't necessarily need paper statements, but I think it will be easier for those helping DW and I as we suffer cognitive decline, as we most likely will experience at some point in time.
I'm not sure what use old paper statements could ever possibly be? I have never done anything with them, after reviewing upon receipt, except shove them in a box with each year's tax return, never to be looked at again.
Yea, I also want someone else to know about all my accounts when they do my taxes. At a minimum, they need to know that all the accounts are accounted for and if there were tax consequences or not for each account. Right now, I only have a spreadsheet for all the tax forms that are needed for our taxes. I suppose I should start adding a list of accounts that don’t impact our taxes, like Roth IRAs and non-interest bearing checking accounts.


One reason the past statements might be needed is if you own/owned shares in a company that has a class action lawsuit against them. If you get a notice in the postal mail and can prove the date and price when you bought and sold shares, you might get part of the settlement. My dad always owned individual stocks instead of mutual funds or ETFs and about once a year he would need my help filing a claim but was able to cash the checks he received. If you don’t file a claim, you won’t get anything. But if your mutual fund / ETF owns the stock, they will file the claim.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by Running Bum »

Nver2Late wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:08 pm I think I'm going to let it ride for now. I guess if I'm paying $150 in new fees, I might as well log-in and switch back to all paper.

Harry Livermore wrote: I'm gonna pay it and continue receiving my paper statements. While I'm at it, I might request paper prospectuses for a few dozen funds I'm "interested" in, every quarter. I want to get my $25 worth.
Being passive aggressive against a corporation, while increasing your chances of identity theft from stolen mail. That'll show 'em. Smart move, folks.
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Re: New fee for Vanguard mutual accounts

Post by keyfort »

Individual 401k accounts cannot be set to e-delivery only. When I first encountered this, Vanguard told me that having my brokerage account set to e-delivery and at least $50,000 across all accounts would exempt me from the fee. That has been the case for a few years. This isn't going to change anything right?
PatrickA5
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Re: Brokerage Fee now $25 per account if < 5 million?

Post by PatrickA5 »

Sister-in-law got the same email today. I explained she could save the $25 by going paperless, but she's old school and likes her statements in the mail.
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Re: Brokerage Fee now $25 per account if < 5 million?

Post by jebmke »

also being discussed here; it appears that some account holders have received the same email -- but others maybe not yet.

viewtopic.php?p=7293464#p7293464
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
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