SmileyFace wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:08 am
beyou wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:48 pm
Also note your marketing of products from Vanguard are just not valid complaints at all. PAS, really ? Pretty much EVERY broker out there sells something like PAS at higher cost, compared to Vanguard, including Fidelity. And bond active funds ? Bonds are much tougher to operate index funds compared to stocks, and as a result most bond funds yes are active, but Vanguard’s active bond funds are among the lowest cost bond funds out there. Nobody beats Vanguard at low cost bond funds.
All Brokers have these products - no dispute.
I was merely pointing out that Vanguard is, ironically, the only one actively trying to sell them to me to illustrate this isn't the Vanguard of yesterday - it has become just another broker - albeit one with poor customer service. For folks being forced to switch to brokerage accounts its a good time to evaluate if Vanguard is the brokerage account for you.
I am glad you have hours to wait on hold for Vanguard during working hours - I do not.
I have not waited on hold in 20 years, and the website can handle most of my needs. There was exactly one time I had a function they had to perform for me and had to call, vs online service. This was recent, a one-time need (which is likely why not on the website), and was fast and accurate.
And it is nothing special as a broker, agreed, but it still is something special for mutual funds, particularly fixed income. If you are one of those 100% VTSAX/VTI guys, then any broker including Vanguard can meet your simple needs.
As far as marketing PAS type products, my other broker used to call me regularly, and I just said no thanks, and asked to stop calling about it (which after many calls they finally stopped). Nobody has EVER called me from Vanguard about PAS. Yes I see ads online, but they can be ignored. Why is it so upsetting that Vanguard introduced a service that other brokers have, at a much lower price, and markets it ? Would you prefer it is not an option for those who need it ? Or a high cost option (which then really would make them more like every other broker) ? Or not advertise it (keep it a hidden secret) ?
Nobody likes to wait on hold, so for those with frequent hand holding needs, maybe Vanguard is not the right broker. But if most of your needs are met online, they are fine and are the only brokerage that gives low cost access to ALL their funds (vs just some of their funds at varying fees elsewhere).
They have NEVER been appropriate for ALL. With historical $3k per fund minimums (sometimes $10k or $50k) certainly many new investors were locked out or forced into a balanced fund to keep all assets in one fund. They always had fees to drive desirable behavior (online vs paper statements, now brokerage vs fund-only). Many other brokers have same. But none have the mutual fund lineup in full. That and good enough service has kept me. I am well aware of what other brokers can offer in terms of hand holding, sometimes better website functionality etc, but in the end the fund product is most important, that is why you are there.
If you only buy ETF and lower min investor class funds, Etrade is an excellent choice for currently free trades of the investor class funds (and those admiral that were merged with former investor class funds). But this is the firm that used to call me couple times per year to market their high cost PAS equivalent. Fidelity also calls many customers for same sales pitch and charges $75 to buy Vanguard funds. None though offer ALL Vanguard funds, but they do have most. Also etrade customers have reported long wait times on the phone recently, something I never personally experienced.