New AC unit

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Topic Author
student
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Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

New AC unit

Post by student »

Well, another item needs to be replaced. The AC unit suddenly stopped working. A technician came over and said it's a contact issue (whatever that means) and mentioned something else. The unit is 25 years old and he said it is not worth fixing it. I am a single person living in a 1400 square feet condo. In the summer, I like to keep the temperature at about 78-80 F. I use AC for about 2 hours a day. The salesperson will come on Monday to give an estimate. I am anticipating it will cost around $5,000. My furnace is also about 25 years old and the circuit board was replaced 5 years ago. I think they will try to sell me a package of a furnace and an ac. In winter, I also only use the furnace for about 2 hours a day as I keep the temperature at around 64 F. The cheap side of me is saying just spend $400 to get a portable unit. Since my bedroom has a door wall, I need a contraption like https://www.amazon.com/gulrear-Portable ... 55060&th=1 I may also need to take care of water issue for a portable unit. I can pay $5,000. (I did not travel for two years due to the pandemic so I can use the travel money.) My questions are

1) Central AC or portable unit?
2) Just the AC or do a package?
3) Any useless upsell that I need be know about?

Thank you for any comments you have.
Big Dog
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Re: New AC unit

Post by Big Dog »

Do you own the condo? (when you go to sell, the buyer will expect a real ac unit, not a "contraption".)

Will your HOA allow such a portable contraction, i.e., dripping on the balcony or down the wall? (These are extremely inefficient btw, and will use a lot of electricity for cooling, but if you only need a couple of hours a day, maybe you won't care.)

Your questions 1-3: obtain 5+ quotes, and Manual J.
tibbitts
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Re: New AC unit

Post by tibbitts »

What's the value of the condo, and what kind of furnace do you have? Is it the usual gas-furnace-as-airhandler, with the coil mounted above or below the furnace? What size (btu) equipment do you have now? Nothing unusual like a dehumidifier or air cleaner component?
59Gibson
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Re: New AC unit

Post by 59Gibson »

If you're truly only using for 2 hrs/day I'd put a window unit in for 6 weeks. HVAC cos become more desperate/reasonable closer to October, but then get outrageous again in mid Novemeber. Try to replace in Oct
Topic Author
student
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Re: New AC unit

Post by student »

Big Dog wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:59 pm Do you own the condo? (when you go to sell, the buyer will expect a real ac unit, not a "contraption".)

Will your HOA allow such a portable contraction, i.e., dripping on the balcony or down the wall? (These are extremely inefficient btw, and will use a lot of electricity for cooling, but if you only need a couple of hours a day, maybe you won't care.)

Your questions 1-3: obtain 5+ quotes, and Manual J.
I own the unit. It is a good point that the buyer expects a real unit. There will not be an issue with the HOA as there will be no dripping as the water will be collected in door, only hot air will be vented outside.
Last edited by student on Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Topic Author
student
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Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: New AC unit

Post by student »

59Gibson wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:14 pm If you're truly only using for 2 hrs/day I'd put a window unit in for 6 weeks. HVAC cos become more desperate/reasonable closer to October, but then get outrageous again in mid Novemeber. Try to replace in Oct
Yes. It is truly about 2 hours a day. My thermostat's memory tells me the info. My condo does not allow window unit. Also I have a door wall, so I have to use the contraption that I mentioned, if I use a cheap option.
Topic Author
student
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Re: New AC unit

Post by student »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:12 pm What's the value of the condo, and what kind of furnace do you have? Is it the usual gas-furnace-as-airhandler, with the coil mounted above or below the furnace? What size (btu) equipment do you have now? Nothing unusual like a dehumidifier or air cleaner component?
Similar units are selling for around 210k. I have the usual gas-furnace-as-airhandler that is above the furnace, I do have some sort of humidifier attached to it but it is off.
tibbitts
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Re: New AC unit

Post by tibbitts »

student wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:26 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:12 pm What's the value of the condo, and what kind of furnace do you have? Is it the usual gas-furnace-as-airhandler, with the coil mounted above or below the furnace? What size (btu) equipment do you have now? Nothing unusual like a dehumidifier or air cleaner component?
Similar units are selling for around 210k. I have the usual gas-furnace-as-airhandler that is above the furnace, I do have some sort of humidifier attached to it but it is off.
After 25 years I'd replace both. I'll guess estimates will be in the $10k range for air plus furnace, not including any kind of separate device (humidifier, etc.)
neilpilot
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Re: New AC unit

Post by neilpilot »

Student posted: "A technician came over and said it's a contact issue (whatever that means)"

When an AC quits, it can be due to many things but there are 2 very common electrical issues. A bad contactor, sometimes called a start relay, and a bad capacitor. A capacitor is cheap ($10-$25) and very easy to replace. The contactor costs more ($50-$150), it's a bit more difficult to find the correct replacement for an older unit, and it's also a bit more involved to DIY. However it's not difficult.

I have 3 AC units, and one is original to the house. I just bought & installed a replacement contactor. The replacement part number & design has changed since Trane made my AC back in the 1980s, so I had to call them for the new part #. It wasn't cheap (around $125), but my 35 y/o AC is just humming along and cooling fine. I'd guess if I'd called in a repairmen I would now have a new unit and a few less $k.

viewtopic.php?p=6755365&hilit=relay#p6755365
montanagirl
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Re: New AC unit

Post by montanagirl »

student wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:15 pm
Big Dog wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:59 pm Do you own the condo? (when you go to sell, the buyer will expect a real ac unit, not a "contraption".)

Will your HOA allow such a portable contraction, i.e., dripping on the balcony or down the wall? (These are extremely inefficient btw, and will use a lot of electricity for cooling, but if you only need a couple of hours a day, maybe you won't care.)

Your questions 1-3: obtain 5+ quotes, and Manual J.
I own the unit. It is a good point that the buyer expects a real unit. There will an issue with the HOA as there will be no dripping as the water will be collected in door, only hot air will be vented outside.

Can confirm. We just looked at two older units without AC though one was plumbed for it, whatever that means. The closet unit had no bonnet and looked rather cramped.

It's really just a nonstarter with the fire seasons we've had. Otherwise you can just open a window in Montana.
Topic Author
student
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Re: New AC unit

Post by student »

montanagirl wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:04 pm
student wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:15 pm
Big Dog wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:59 pm Do you own the condo? (when you go to sell, the buyer will expect a real ac unit, not a "contraption".)

Will your HOA allow such a portable contraction, i.e., dripping on the balcony or down the wall? (These are extremely inefficient btw, and will use a lot of electricity for cooling, but if you only need a couple of hours a day, maybe you won't care.)

Your questions 1-3: obtain 5+ quotes, and Manual J.
I own the unit. It is a good point that the buyer expects a real unit. There will an issue with the HOA as there will be no dripping as the water will be collected in door, only hot air will be vented outside.

Can confirm. We just looked at two older units without AC though one was plumbed for it, whatever that means. The closet unit had no bonnet and looked rather cramped.

It's really just a nonstarter with the fire seasons we've had. Otherwise you can just open a window in Montana.
Sorry. I meant to say there will not be an issue with the portable unit contraption that I am considering as only hot air will be vented outside.
Topic Author
student
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Re: New AC unit

Post by student »

neilpilot wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:55 pm Student posted: "A technician came over and said it's a contact issue (whatever that means)"

When an AC quits, it can be due to many things but there are 2 very common electrical issues. A bad contactor, sometimes called a start relay, and a bad capacitor. A capacitor is cheap ($10-$25) and very easy to replace. The contactor costs more ($50-$150), it's a bit more difficult to find the correct replacement for an older unit, and it's also a bit more involved to DIY. However it's not difficult.

I have 3 AC units, and one is original to the house. I just bought & installed a replacement contactor. The replacement part number & design has changed since Trane made my AC back in the 1980s, so I had to call them for the new part #. It wasn't cheap (around $125), but my 35 y/o AC is just humming along and cooling fine. I'd guess if I'd called in a repairmen I would now have a new unit and a few less $k.

viewtopic.php?p=6755365&hilit=relay#p6755365
Thanks for the comment. The technician worked on it for an hour. He said the AC unit is not responding or something. He also mentioned something about the compressor. I am completely useless in fixing thing. I will read the thread that you mentioned. Thanks again.
tibbitts
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Re: New AC unit

Post by tibbitts »

student wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:13 pm
neilpilot wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:55 pm Student posted: "A technician came over and said it's a contact issue (whatever that means)"

When an AC quits, it can be due to many things but there are 2 very common electrical issues. A bad contactor, sometimes called a start relay, and a bad capacitor. A capacitor is cheap ($10-$25) and very easy to replace. The contactor costs more ($50-$150), it's a bit more difficult to find the correct replacement for an older unit, and it's also a bit more involved to DIY. However it's not difficult.

I have 3 AC units, and one is original to the house. I just bought & installed a replacement contactor. The replacement part number & design has changed since Trane made my AC back in the 1980s, so I had to call them for the new part #. It wasn't cheap (around $125), but my 35 y/o AC is just humming along and cooling fine. I'd guess if I'd called in a repairmen I would now have a new unit and a few less $k.

viewtopic.php?p=6755365&hilit=relay#p6755365
Thanks for the comment. The technician worked on it for an hour. He said the AC unit is not responding or something. He also mentioned something about the compressor. I am completely useless in fixing thing. I will read the thread that you mentioned. Thanks again.
It sounds like there was some combination of the technician not being eager to explain details of your unit's condition and you not being eager to hear them. Given that situation it's also unlikely that the salesperson can or will provide any input other than the cost of a replacement. Realistically you would have to pay for additional opinions regarding repairs, so at this point you/we know as much about the condition of the existing system as we're going to know. The only real choice is to pay another $100 or so for an explanation from another technician or just go ahead with the replacement. I replaced my 25-year-old system while it was still working perfectly so replacement would be my inclination here.
Topic Author
student
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Re: New AC unit

Post by student »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:31 pm
student wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:13 pm
neilpilot wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:55 pm Student posted: "A technician came over and said it's a contact issue (whatever that means)"

When an AC quits, it can be due to many things but there are 2 very common electrical issues. A bad contactor, sometimes called a start relay, and a bad capacitor. A capacitor is cheap ($10-$25) and very easy to replace. The contactor costs more ($50-$150), it's a bit more difficult to find the correct replacement for an older unit, and it's also a bit more involved to DIY. However it's not difficult.

I have 3 AC units, and one is original to the house. I just bought & installed a replacement contactor. The replacement part number & design has changed since Trane made my AC back in the 1980s, so I had to call them for the new part #. It wasn't cheap (around $125), but my 35 y/o AC is just humming along and cooling fine. I'd guess if I'd called in a repairmen I would now have a new unit and a few less $k.

viewtopic.php?p=6755365&hilit=relay#p6755365
Thanks for the comment. The technician worked on it for an hour. He said the AC unit is not responding or something. He also mentioned something about the compressor. I am completely useless in fixing thing. I will read the thread that you mentioned. Thanks again.
It sounds like there was some combination of the technician not being eager to explain details of your unit's condition and you not being eager to hear them. Given that situation it's also unlikely that the salesperson can or will provide any input other than the cost of a replacement. Realistically you would have to pay for additional opinions regarding repairs, so at this point you/we know as much about the condition of the existing system as we're going to know. The only real choice is to pay another $100 or so for an explanation from another technician or just go ahead with the replacement. I replaced my 25-year-old system while it was still working perfectly so replacement would be my inclination here.
That's a fair assessment. After he worked on it for half an hour, I asked him whether it needs freon. He said the AC is getting the 240V but is not responding, so it is a contact problem. I thought it was something easy to fix. After another half an hour, he said he was able to get the unit to respond but then it quit again. By that time, I felt that he was not trying to pull one over me. Yes. I am leaning just replacing it.
neilpilot
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Re: New AC unit

Post by neilpilot »

student wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:03 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:31 pm
student wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:13 pm
neilpilot wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:55 pm Student posted: "A technician came over and said it's a contact issue (whatever that means)"

When an AC quits, it can be due to many things but there are 2 very common electrical issues. A bad contactor, sometimes called a start relay, and a bad capacitor. A capacitor is cheap ($10-$25) and very easy to replace. The contactor costs more ($50-$150), it's a bit more difficult to find the correct replacement for an older unit, and it's also a bit more involved to DIY. However it's not difficult.

I have 3 AC units, and one is original to the house. I just bought & installed a replacement contactor. The replacement part number & design has changed since Trane made my AC back in the 1980s, so I had to call them for the new part #. It wasn't cheap (around $125), but my 35 y/o AC is just humming along and cooling fine. I'd guess if I'd called in a repairmen I would now have a new unit and a few less $k.

viewtopic.php?p=6755365&hilit=relay#p6755365
Thanks for the comment. The technician worked on it for an hour. He said the AC unit is not responding or something. He also mentioned something about the compressor. I am completely useless in fixing thing. I will read the thread that you mentioned. Thanks again.
It sounds like there was some combination of the technician not being eager to explain details of your unit's condition and you not being eager to hear them. Given that situation it's also unlikely that the salesperson can or will provide any input other than the cost of a replacement. Realistically you would have to pay for additional opinions regarding repairs, so at this point you/we know as much about the condition of the existing system as we're going to know. The only real choice is to pay another $100 or so for an explanation from another technician or just go ahead with the replacement. I replaced my 25-year-old system while it was still working perfectly so replacement would be my inclination here.
That's a fair assessment. After he worked on it for half an hour, I asked him whether it needs freon. He said the AC is getting the 240V but is not responding, so it is a contact problem. I thought it was something easy to fix. After another half an hour, he said he was able to get the unit to respond but then it quit again. By that time, I felt that he was not trying to pull one over me. Yes. I am leaning just replacing it.
When you say that "he was able to get the unit to respond but then it quit again" do you mean that the AC was running and cooling, but then just stopped running? If that's the case, then that typically means one of 2 things. Either there's an issue internal to the compressor, resulting in internal overheating, and the thermal relay stopped the unit (possible but not uncommon). Or, as I guessed above, the "contact problem" is simply a bad contactor, which is very common.

The contactor gets old with time, sometimes developing corrosion or pitting on the contacts. There are 2 symptoms of a bad contactor, with either one or both occurring. Symptom One - when the thermostat calls for cooling via the furnace controls, the outside unit contactor fails to close and deliver power to the outside unit. Neither the compressor or the condenser fan runs. That was what caused me to install a new contactor. Symptom Two - the AC unit starts but then at some point the contactor, which is worn, will loose contact and both the compressor and condenser fan stops.

It's easy to diagnose a bad contactor using a volt meter. When it sees the 24v power from the furnace signal wire, the contacts should immediately latch closed resulting in 240v on the ac side of the contactor. No 240v on the compressor/fan side of the contactor means the outside unit doesn't run. I was able to CAREFULLY close my contactor using an insulated screwdriver and the AC started and ran fine. So I replaced that relatively cheap part. It's likely the repairman either didn't have the part or wasn't sure he could get one for your old unit, or simply preferred to sell you a new system.

I get it that you aren't comfortable to do this type of repair diy, but there must be an independent repairman who can.
tibbitts
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Re: New AC unit

Post by tibbitts »

neilpilot wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:21 pm I get it that you aren't comfortable to do this type of repair diy, but there must be an independent repairman who can.
So the question becomes how to find an independent technician who doesn't sell new equipment and isn't affiliated with anyone who does, and then whether the OP wants to spend the $100 or so for a second opinion.
neilpilot
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Re: New AC unit

Post by neilpilot »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:44 pm
neilpilot wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:21 pm I get it that you aren't comfortable to do this type of repair diy, but there must be an independent repairman who can.
So the question becomes how to find an independent technician who doesn't sell new equipment and isn't affiliated with anyone who does, and then whether the OP wants to spend the $100 or so for a second opinion.
I realize the thread title is "New AC unit". However, sometimes a repairman's incompetence or upselling can result in the replacement of an otherwise old but perfectly good system. At least the OP can be given possibly useful info in order to make an informed choice.

While I typically diy my furnace and ac issues, sometimes I need to call for help. A few years ago I called an independent repairman who I had used to install a replacement HVAC in my former home. I was expected to have to replace one of my 3 units. He spent about 45 minutes, did a simple fix that I could have done if I had known what was causing the issue, and 5 years later that system is still going strong. Moral of that story - you can use a repairman who does sell new equipment, so long as he's competent and honest.
smitcat
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Re: New AC unit

Post by smitcat »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:44 pm
neilpilot wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:21 pm I get it that you aren't comfortable to do this type of repair diy, but there must be an independent repairman who can.
So the question becomes how to find an independent technician who doesn't sell new equipment and isn't affiliated with anyone who does, and then whether the OP wants to spend the $100 or so for a second opinion.
A few thoughts...
- ask your neighbors who they use
- use the next-door community to ask
- call a few in the local flyers
tibbitts
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Re: New AC unit

Post by tibbitts »

neilpilot wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:02 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:44 pm
neilpilot wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:21 pm I get it that you aren't comfortable to do this type of repair diy, but there must be an independent repairman who can.
So the question becomes how to find an independent technician who doesn't sell new equipment and isn't affiliated with anyone who does, and then whether the OP wants to spend the $100 or so for a second opinion.
I realize the thread title is "New AC unit". However, sometimes a repairman's incompetence or upselling can result in the replacement of an otherwise old but perfectly good system. At least the OP can be given possibly useful info in order to make an informed choice.

While I typically diy my furnace and ac issues, sometimes I need to call for help. A few years ago I called an independent repairman who I had used to install a replacement HVAC in my former home. I was expected to have to replace one of my 3 units. He spent about 45 minutes, did a simple fix that I could have done if I had known what was causing the issue, and 5 years later that system is still going strong. Moral of that story - you can use a repairman who does sell new equipment, so long as he's competent and honest.
But you need some combination of experience and knowledge to judge whether the technician is "competent and honest." What's difficult about this situation is that every new piece of information to base a decision on costs about $100.
neilpilot
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Re: New AC unit

Post by neilpilot »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:14 pm
neilpilot wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:02 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:44 pm
neilpilot wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:21 pm I get it that you aren't comfortable to do this type of repair diy, but there must be an independent repairman who can.
So the question becomes how to find an independent technician who doesn't sell new equipment and isn't affiliated with anyone who does, and then whether the OP wants to spend the $100 or so for a second opinion.
I realize the thread title is "New AC unit". However, sometimes a repairman's incompetence or upselling can result in the replacement of an otherwise old but perfectly good system. At least the OP can be given possibly useful info in order to make an informed choice.

While I typically diy my furnace and ac issues, sometimes I need to call for help. A few years ago I called an independent repairman who I had used to install a replacement HVAC in my former home. I was expected to have to replace one of my 3 units. He spent about 45 minutes, did a simple fix that I could have done if I had known what was causing the issue, and 5 years later that system is still going strong. Moral of that story - you can use a repairman who does sell new equipment, so long as he's competent and honest.
But you need some combination of experience and knowledge to judge whether the technician is "competent and honest." What's difficult about this situation is that every new piece of information to base a decision on costs about $100.
I've twice recommended my ac technician to neighbors who have had HVAC issues. In both cases, they had already been quoted a replacement unit and in one case, the replacement turned out to be totally unnecessary.

Their "competence and knowledge" was essential nil, except that they had sufficient competence to ask someone else (me) for a recommendation. There are ways to get free information - there's some posted in this thread (i.e, Smitcat's post above).

I don't have a problem with the OP deciding to replace a possibly good ac compressor rather than spend an additional $100 on another opinion. However, that's something I would personally try to avoid.
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willthrill81
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Re: New AC unit

Post by willthrill81 »

Since the condo doesn't allow window units and any future buyer will want AC, it seems that replacing the OP's existing unit is the only viable solution.
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random_walker_77
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Re: New AC unit

Post by random_walker_77 »

Did they replace the contactor? I'd seriously consider a 2nd opinion before deciding to replace it. The tech may be incompetent or dishonest. Some a/c companies have been known to be biased towards replacing systems, due to <financial incentives>.

fyi, the contactor is just a relay switch. Generics are $10-$20, so a repair job, including their profit margin and labor would probably be over $200.

That said, it's old enough that you are looking at a replacement soon, preferably on your own timeline. For a small condo, where heating is also sparse, consider replacing with a mini-split system that supports heating.
tibbitts
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Re: New AC unit

Post by tibbitts »

neilpilot wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:23 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:14 pm
neilpilot wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:02 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:44 pm
neilpilot wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:21 pm I get it that you aren't comfortable to do this type of repair diy, but there must be an independent repairman who can.
So the question becomes how to find an independent technician who doesn't sell new equipment and isn't affiliated with anyone who does, and then whether the OP wants to spend the $100 or so for a second opinion.
I realize the thread title is "New AC unit". However, sometimes a repairman's incompetence or upselling can result in the replacement of an otherwise old but perfectly good system. At least the OP can be given possibly useful info in order to make an informed choice.

While I typically diy my furnace and ac issues, sometimes I need to call for help. A few years ago I called an independent repairman who I had used to install a replacement HVAC in my former home. I was expected to have to replace one of my 3 units. He spent about 45 minutes, did a simple fix that I could have done if I had known what was causing the issue, and 5 years later that system is still going strong. Moral of that story - you can use a repairman who does sell new equipment, so long as he's competent and honest.
But you need some combination of experience and knowledge to judge whether the technician is "competent and honest." What's difficult about this situation is that every new piece of information to base a decision on costs about $100.
I've twice recommended my ac technician to neighbors who have had HVAC issues. In both cases, they had already been quoted a replacement unit and in one case, the replacement turned out to be totally unnecessary.

Their "competence and knowledge" was essential nil, except that they had sufficient competence to ask someone else (me) for a recommendation. There are ways to get free information - there's some posted in this thread (i.e, Smitcat's post above).

I don't have a problem with the OP deciding to replace a possibly good ac compressor rather than spend an additional $100 on another opinion. However, that's something I would personally try to avoid.
We've all had the experience of asking neighbors who have personal experience with a service for recommendations and gotten results varying from outstanding to horrible. So if your neighbors got a helpful recommendation from you, that was luck and not skill, unless they knew enough to judge your hvac "competence and knowledge."

There was a debate on the local Nextdoor last week that started innocently enough with someone posting what they felt was a very positive experience with an hvac company, and after about a dozen or two increasingly hostile back-and-forth posts (including from the local d-i-y contingent) the thread ended up getting locked. So what should anyone conclude from that?

Unless you d-i-y repairs or "know a guy", it seems like keep or replace decisions probably don't matter that much financially once a unit is past the first dozen years or so. Even at 25 years I don't think it matters much whether the OP replaces the unit or gets an additional $100 opinion or two, so I don't really have an opinion. As I said I'd probably replace the unit just because for five or ten year or however long the warranty lasted I hopefully wouldn't have to think about it again.
Designairohio
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Re: New AC unit

Post by Designairohio »

If the service tech can’t explain what is wrong with the unit I wouldn’t let that company replace the system. If the tech is incompetent the installers could be worse.
For him to say it is not worth fixing doesn’t even give you the option, he should be able to tell you what is wrong and give you a price to fix it, then you have the option of keeping it going or replacing it, but it’s your choice not theirs.
tibbitts
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Re: New AC unit

Post by tibbitts »

Designairohio wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:30 pm If the service tech can’t explain what is wrong with the unit I wouldn’t let that company replace the system. If the tech is incompetent the installers could be worse.
For him to say it is not worth fixing doesn’t even give you the option, he should be able to tell you what is wrong and give you a price to fix it, the you have the option of keeping it going or replacing but it’s your choice not theirs.
I somewhat agree with this although my experience at my job was that some customers just didn't want or appreciate any details or explanations, and maybe the OP communicated that even if it was unintentional. Or maybe it was a combination of the technician not offering details and the OP not asking for them. For me I had a tendency to spend, okay maybe hours, explaining every detail of a problem, multiple possible solutions, stories about similar previous problems and the results and implications of implementing various solutions, etc. Thankfully I wasn't being paid by how many jobs I finished in a day.
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student
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Re: New AC unit

Post by student »

Thanks for all the comments.

1) I did not ask the technician many questions and it seems he was working hard for an hour under the sun, I felt he tried and kind of gave up hope when he said it is not worth fixing.

2) I found my unit under power. I mentioned earlier that I keep the temperature at 80 F. It is partly because this is the best that it can do during the day. And I got used to it.

3) I walked around the complex earlier and see that about 40% of the units have been replaced.

4) I tried looking for independent technicians but it seems they all sell ac units, so hard to find one that has no conflict of interest.

5) I will post the estimate after I talk to sales.
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student
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Re: New AC unit

Post by student »

Thanks again for all the replies. $8k to change both the furnace and the ac. He suggested a 2.5 ton. I asked about a 3 ton one and he said that's not necessary and told me that would be too large as it affects the ability of dehumidifying, which is a good sign as my understanding is that his statement is correct. They are busy so I have to wait two weeks. I asked for American Standard or Carrier. He said they only sell Lennox, and he claimed that Trane and Lennox are the best. Since my current one is Lennox, and I am satisfied with it, I decided to go with it. (I know it is better to get a couple of more quotes, but I decided to just stick with the company that I have used before.)
tibbitts
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Re: New AC unit

Post by tibbitts »

student wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:10 pm Thanks again for all the replies. $8k to change both the furnace and the ac. He suggested a 2.5 ton. I asked about a 3 ton one and he said that's not necessary and told me that would be too large as it affects the ability of dehumidifying, which is a good sign as my understanding is that his statement is correct. They are busy so I have to wait two weeks. I asked for American Standard or Carrier. He said they only sell Lennox, and he claimed that Trane and Lennox are the best. Since my current one is Lennox, and I am satisfied with it, I decided to go with it. (I know it is better to get a couple of more quotes, but I decided to just stick with the company that I have used before.)
I don't know that one particular brand is best, and that probably varies from time to time and model to model, but I wouldn't expect most companies to sell any particular brand you want. You have to select the dealer based on the brand you want to buy. That quote seems very reasonable although hundreds of people will be along any minute to tell you they got the same equipment for half the price, and of course a bonus toaster too.

If you were happy with your old hvac then you should get the same size. I would not downsize or upsize unless I was unhappy with the performance I'd been experiencing.
Topic Author
student
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Re: New AC unit

Post by student »

tibbitts wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:20 pm
student wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:10 pm Thanks again for all the replies. $8k to change both the furnace and the ac. He suggested a 2.5 ton. I asked about a 3 ton one and he said that's not necessary and told me that would be too large as it affects the ability of dehumidifying, which is a good sign as my understanding is that his statement is correct. They are busy so I have to wait two weeks. I asked for American Standard or Carrier. He said they only sell Lennox, and he claimed that Trane and Lennox are the best. Since my current one is Lennox, and I am satisfied with it, I decided to go with it. (I know it is better to get a couple of more quotes, but I decided to just stick with the company that I have used before.)
I don't know that one particular brand is best, and that probably varies from time to time and model to model, but I wouldn't expect most companies to sell any particular brand you want. You have to select the dealer based on the brand you want to buy. That quote seems very reasonable although hundreds of people will be along any minute to tell you they got the same equipment for half the price, and of course a bonus toaster too.

If you were happy with your old hvac then you should get the same size. I would not downsize or upsize unless I was unhappy with the performance I'd been experiencing.
I guess I am ok with a major brand, I just don't want brands that I have not heard of like Mr. Cool. The installer is the company that did all the units in the complex. My AC was underpower at 2 ton. (1,400 square feet with cathedral ceiling in the living dining room.)
tibbitts
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Re: New AC unit

Post by tibbitts »

student wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:55 pm
tibbitts wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:20 pm
student wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:10 pm Thanks again for all the replies. $8k to change both the furnace and the ac. He suggested a 2.5 ton. I asked about a 3 ton one and he said that's not necessary and told me that would be too large as it affects the ability of dehumidifying, which is a good sign as my understanding is that his statement is correct. They are busy so I have to wait two weeks. I asked for American Standard or Carrier. He said they only sell Lennox, and he claimed that Trane and Lennox are the best. Since my current one is Lennox, and I am satisfied with it, I decided to go with it. (I know it is better to get a couple of more quotes, but I decided to just stick with the company that I have used before.)
I don't know that one particular brand is best, and that probably varies from time to time and model to model, but I wouldn't expect most companies to sell any particular brand you want. You have to select the dealer based on the brand you want to buy. That quote seems very reasonable although hundreds of people will be along any minute to tell you they got the same equipment for half the price, and of course a bonus toaster too.

If you were happy with your old hvac then you should get the same size. I would not downsize or upsize unless I was unhappy with the performance I'd been experiencing.
I guess I am ok with a major brand, I just don't want brands that I have not heard of like Mr. Cool. The installer is the company that did all the units in the complex. My AC was underpower at 2 ton. (1,400 square feet with cathedral ceiling in the living dining room.)
If you live where the other houses are similar design and construction you might ask what size neighbors with newer units have, and whether they are happy with the size they bought.
Californiastate
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Re: New AC unit

Post by Californiastate »

student wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:55 pm
tibbitts wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:20 pm
student wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:10 pm Thanks again for all the replies. $8k to change both the furnace and the ac. He suggested a 2.5 ton. I asked about a 3 ton one and he said that's not necessary and told me that would be too large as it affects the ability of dehumidifying, which is a good sign as my understanding is that his statement is correct. They are busy so I have to wait two weeks. I asked for American Standard or Carrier. He said they only sell Lennox, and he claimed that Trane and Lennox are the best. Since my current one is Lennox, and I am satisfied with it, I decided to go with it. (I know it is better to get a couple of more quotes, but I decided to just stick with the company that I have used before.)
I don't know that one particular brand is best, and that probably varies from time to time and model to model, but I wouldn't expect most companies to sell any particular brand you want. You have to select the dealer based on the brand you want to buy. That quote seems very reasonable although hundreds of people will be along any minute to tell you they got the same equipment for half the price, and of course a bonus toaster too.

If you were happy with your old hvac then you should get the same size. I would not downsize or upsize unless I was unhappy with the performance I'd been experiencing.
I guess I am ok with a major brand, I just don't want brands that I have not heard of like Mr. Cool. The installer is the company that did all the units in the complex. My AC was underpower at 2 ton. (1,400 square feet with cathedral ceiling in the living dining room.)
It might be properly sized per current standards. Have you had a Manual J sizing completed? ACs aren't sized to cool a unit down from 90 to 75 in 30 minutes.
tibbitts
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Re: New AC unit

Post by tibbitts »

Californiastate wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:25 pm
student wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:55 pm
tibbitts wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:20 pm
student wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:10 pm Thanks again for all the replies. $8k to change both the furnace and the ac. He suggested a 2.5 ton. I asked about a 3 ton one and he said that's not necessary and told me that would be too large as it affects the ability of dehumidifying, which is a good sign as my understanding is that his statement is correct. They are busy so I have to wait two weeks. I asked for American Standard or Carrier. He said they only sell Lennox, and he claimed that Trane and Lennox are the best. Since my current one is Lennox, and I am satisfied with it, I decided to go with it. (I know it is better to get a couple of more quotes, but I decided to just stick with the company that I have used before.)
I don't know that one particular brand is best, and that probably varies from time to time and model to model, but I wouldn't expect most companies to sell any particular brand you want. You have to select the dealer based on the brand you want to buy. That quote seems very reasonable although hundreds of people will be along any minute to tell you they got the same equipment for half the price, and of course a bonus toaster too.

If you were happy with your old hvac then you should get the same size. I would not downsize or upsize unless I was unhappy with the performance I'd been experiencing.
I guess I am ok with a major brand, I just don't want brands that I have not heard of like Mr. Cool. The installer is the company that did all the units in the complex. My AC was underpower at 2 ton. (1,400 square feet with cathedral ceiling in the living dining room.)
It might be properly sized per current standards. Have you had a Manual J sizing completed? ACs aren't sized to cool a unit down from 90 to 75 in 30 minutes.
Manual J can have the same false-precision problems as the SWR and when-to-take-social-security calculations we all do. It'll probably be close, maybe within a half a ton, but is never as good as personal experience from nearly identical installations. Once you know the correct answer, you can always go back and slightly tweak the inputs to your Manual J software to show that answer actually is correct.
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student
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Re: New AC unit

Post by student »

tibbitts wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:17 pm
student wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:55 pm
tibbitts wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:20 pm
student wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:10 pm Thanks again for all the replies. $8k to change both the furnace and the ac. He suggested a 2.5 ton. I asked about a 3 ton one and he said that's not necessary and told me that would be too large as it affects the ability of dehumidifying, which is a good sign as my understanding is that his statement is correct. They are busy so I have to wait two weeks. I asked for American Standard or Carrier. He said they only sell Lennox, and he claimed that Trane and Lennox are the best. Since my current one is Lennox, and I am satisfied with it, I decided to go with it. (I know it is better to get a couple of more quotes, but I decided to just stick with the company that I have used before.)
I don't know that one particular brand is best, and that probably varies from time to time and model to model, but I wouldn't expect most companies to sell any particular brand you want. You have to select the dealer based on the brand you want to buy. That quote seems very reasonable although hundreds of people will be along any minute to tell you they got the same equipment for half the price, and of course a bonus toaster too.

If you were happy with your old hvac then you should get the same size. I would not downsize or upsize unless I was unhappy with the performance I'd been experiencing.
I guess I am ok with a major brand, I just don't want brands that I have not heard of like Mr. Cool. The installer is the company that did all the units in the complex. My AC was underpower at 2 ton. (1,400 square feet with cathedral ceiling in the living dining room.)
If you live where the other houses are similar design and construction you might ask what size neighbors with newer units have, and whether they are happy with the size they bought.
I walked around and saw some new AC are larger. (All units are similar sized in the complex, 1200-1400 square feet.)
Californiastate
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Re: New AC unit

Post by Californiastate »

tibbitts wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:41 pm
Californiastate wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:25 pm
student wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:55 pm
tibbitts wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:20 pm
student wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:10 pm Thanks again for all the replies. $8k to change both the furnace and the ac. He suggested a 2.5 ton. I asked about a 3 ton one and he said that's not necessary and told me that would be too large as it affects the ability of dehumidifying, which is a good sign as my understanding is that his statement is correct. They are busy so I have to wait two weeks. I asked for American Standard or Carrier. He said they only sell Lennox, and he claimed that Trane and Lennox are the best. Since my current one is Lennox, and I am satisfied with it, I decided to go with it. (I know it is better to get a couple of more quotes, but I decided to just stick with the company that I have used before.)
I don't know that one particular brand is best, and that probably varies from time to time and model to model, but I wouldn't expect most companies to sell any particular brand you want. You have to select the dealer based on the brand you want to buy. That quote seems very reasonable although hundreds of people will be along any minute to tell you they got the same equipment for half the price, and of course a bonus toaster too.

If you were happy with your old hvac then you should get the same size. I would not downsize or upsize unless I was unhappy with the performance I'd been experiencing.
I guess I am ok with a major brand, I just don't want brands that I have not heard of like Mr. Cool. The installer is the company that did all the units in the complex. My AC was underpower at 2 ton. (1,400 square feet with cathedral ceiling in the living dining room.)
It might be properly sized per current standards. Have you had a Manual J sizing completed? ACs aren't sized to cool a unit down from 90 to 75 in 30 minutes.
Manual J can have the same false-precision problems as the SWR and when-to-take-social-security calculations we all do. It'll probably be close, maybe within a half a ton, but is never as good as personal experience from nearly identical installations. Once you know the correct answer, you can always go back and slightly tweak the inputs to your Manual J software to show that answer actually is correct.
It depends on what you want in your system. Do you want it to immediately cool off a hot house? If so, you'll need more cooling. If you let in a lot of southern exposure sun, you'll need more cooling. We just had a 5 ton variable system installed. It never runs at full tilt if we let it manage the temperature. It runs slow and quiet for the majority of the time with outside temps up to 104F. It's only ran at full tilt once since we've had it. We had left the house open all day to air it out after carpet cleaning. The point is that we didn't need all 5 tons of cooling under normal conditions.
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student
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Re: New AC unit

Post by student »

Californiastate wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:25 pm
student wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:55 pm
tibbitts wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:20 pm
student wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:10 pm Thanks again for all the replies. $8k to change both the furnace and the ac. He suggested a 2.5 ton. I asked about a 3 ton one and he said that's not necessary and told me that would be too large as it affects the ability of dehumidifying, which is a good sign as my understanding is that his statement is correct. They are busy so I have to wait two weeks. I asked for American Standard or Carrier. He said they only sell Lennox, and he claimed that Trane and Lennox are the best. Since my current one is Lennox, and I am satisfied with it, I decided to go with it. (I know it is better to get a couple of more quotes, but I decided to just stick with the company that I have used before.)
I don't know that one particular brand is best, and that probably varies from time to time and model to model, but I wouldn't expect most companies to sell any particular brand you want. You have to select the dealer based on the brand you want to buy. That quote seems very reasonable although hundreds of people will be along any minute to tell you they got the same equipment for half the price, and of course a bonus toaster too.

If you were happy with your old hvac then you should get the same size. I would not downsize or upsize unless I was unhappy with the performance I'd been experiencing.
I guess I am ok with a major brand, I just don't want brands that I have not heard of like Mr. Cool. The installer is the company that did all the units in the complex. My AC was underpower at 2 ton. (1,400 square feet with cathedral ceiling in the living dining room.)
It might be properly sized per current standards. Have you had a Manual J sizing completed? ACs aren't sized to cool a unit down from 90 to 75 in 30 minutes.
No. I have not. My old unit could not cool from 84 to 78 during day time at all.
BarbK
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Re: New AC unit

Post by BarbK »

student wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:19 pm
No. I have not. My old unit could not cool from 84 to 78 during day time at all.
Your old unit was working really hard too. You should notice a huge reduction in your electric bills.
tibbitts
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Re: New AC unit

Post by tibbitts »

BarbK wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:42 pm
student wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:19 pm
No. I have not. My old unit could not cool from 84 to 78 during day time at all.
Your old unit was working really hard too. You should notice a huge reduction in your electric bills.
I'm not sure; I think in theory the idea is that on the very hottest day you want the unit operating continuously. However my experience is that if you have that then you literally have to run the unit all the time; you can't leave it off for 8hrs while you're away and then cool off the house when you get home. In fact you can't program your thermostat to start cooling even 4hrs early. Without excess capacity once you've lost that desired temperature you've lost it, so you have to keep cooling continuously. In that sense you may end up spending more without excess capacity than with it.
LittleMaggieMae
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Re: New AC unit

Post by LittleMaggieMae »

student wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:55 pm I can pay $5,000. (I did not travel for two years due to the pandemic so I can use the travel money.) My questions are

1) Central AC or portable unit?
2) Just the AC or do a package?
3) Any useless upsell that I need be know about?

Thank you for any comments you have.
I would replace the AC and the furnace.

Reasons:
The "contraption" AC (or a window unit) AC is going to cost you alot in Electricity. A friend uses a window AC and then the "vent out the window/empty the water" kind of units - and the cost is thru the roof. Even if they just choose one of the units to run to cool the room it's in - the cost hits the roof.
You also need to maintain the "contraption" (or window unit) - clean it, replace filters. You need to have a place to store it. You need to have the ability to move it/put it into place. This solution is more than just turning on the AC and going about your life.

I'm guessing your 25 year old HVAC is not very efficient and you are paying higher bills even though you use very little HVAC. Energy costs rarely go down.

You will either need to replace all of this stuff now OR most likely before you sell your unit (or don't replace it and get a much lower price for your unit and limit the pool of buyers to someone who is willing to replace the HVAC after sale).

It makes long term sense both comfort, drama, and money wise to replace the HVAC sooner than later.
exodusNH
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Re: New AC unit

Post by exodusNH »

student wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:19 pm
Californiastate wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:25 pm
student wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:55 pm
tibbitts wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:20 pm
student wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:10 pm Thanks again for all the replies. $8k to change both the furnace and the ac. He suggested a 2.5 ton. I asked about a 3 ton one and he said that's not necessary and told me that would be too large as it affects the ability of dehumidifying, which is a good sign as my understanding is that his statement is correct. They are busy so I have to wait two weeks. I asked for American Standard or Carrier. He said they only sell Lennox, and he claimed that Trane and Lennox are the best. Since my current one is Lennox, and I am satisfied with it, I decided to go with it. (I know it is better to get a couple of more quotes, but I decided to just stick with the company that I have used before.)
I don't know that one particular brand is best, and that probably varies from time to time and model to model, but I wouldn't expect most companies to sell any particular brand you want. You have to select the dealer based on the brand you want to buy. That quote seems very reasonable although hundreds of people will be along any minute to tell you they got the same equipment for half the price, and of course a bonus toaster too.

If you were happy with your old hvac then you should get the same size. I would not downsize or upsize unless I was unhappy with the performance I'd been experiencing.
I guess I am ok with a major brand, I just don't want brands that I have not heard of like Mr. Cool. The installer is the company that did all the units in the complex. My AC was underpower at 2 ton. (1,400 square feet with cathedral ceiling in the living dining room.)
It might be properly sized per current standards. Have you had a Manual J sizing completed? ACs aren't sized to cool a unit down from 90 to 75 in 30 minutes.
No. I have not. My old unit could not cool from 84 to 78 during day time at all.
It could have been undersized. You might have been low on coolant. In 25 years, vegetation might have changed such that you're getting more sun. It might also simply be hotter than in the past.

I'd replace the unit. Check with your local utilities. You may be able to get a smallish rebate. A 25 year old unit is inefficient compared to today's standards.
Topic Author
student
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Re: New AC unit

Post by student »

LittleMaggieMae wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:30 pm
student wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:55 pm I can pay $5,000. (I did not travel for two years due to the pandemic so I can use the travel money.) My questions are

1) Central AC or portable unit?
2) Just the AC or do a package?
3) Any useless upsell that I need be know about?

Thank you for any comments you have.
I would replace the AC and the furnace.

Reasons:
The "contraption" AC (or a window unit) AC is going to cost you alot in Electricity. A friend uses a window AC and then the "vent out the window/empty the water" kind of units - and the cost is thru the roof. Even if they just choose one of the units to run to cool the room it's in - the cost hits the roof.
You also need to maintain the "contraption" (or window unit) - clean it, replace filters. You need to have a place to store it. You need to have the ability to move it/put it into place. This solution is more than just turning on the AC and going about your life.

I'm guessing your 25 year old HVAC is not very efficient and you are paying higher bills even though you use very little HVAC. Energy costs rarely go down.

You will either need to replace all of this stuff now OR most likely before you sell your unit (or don't replace it and get a much lower price for your unit and limit the pool of buyers to someone who is willing to replace the HVAC after sale).

It makes long term sense both comfort, drama, and money wise to replace the HVAC sooner than later.
I am replacing the system.
Topic Author
student
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Re: New AC unit

Post by student »

exodusNH wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:41 pm
student wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:19 pm
Californiastate wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:25 pm
student wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:55 pm
tibbitts wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:20 pm
I don't know that one particular brand is best, and that probably varies from time to time and model to model, but I wouldn't expect most companies to sell any particular brand you want. You have to select the dealer based on the brand you want to buy. That quote seems very reasonable although hundreds of people will be along any minute to tell you they got the same equipment for half the price, and of course a bonus toaster too.

If you were happy with your old hvac then you should get the same size. I would not downsize or upsize unless I was unhappy with the performance I'd been experiencing.
I guess I am ok with a major brand, I just don't want brands that I have not heard of like Mr. Cool. The installer is the company that did all the units in the complex. My AC was underpower at 2 ton. (1,400 square feet with cathedral ceiling in the living dining room.)
It might be properly sized per current standards. Have you had a Manual J sizing completed? ACs aren't sized to cool a unit down from 90 to 75 in 30 minutes.
No. I have not. My old unit could not cool from 84 to 78 during day time at all.
It could have been undersized. You might have been low on coolant. In 25 years, vegetation might have changed such that you're getting more sun. It might also simply be hotter than in the past.

I'd replace the unit. Check with your local utilities. You may be able to get a smallish rebate. A 25 year old unit is inefficient compared to today's standards.
I am replacing the system. The $8,000 price includes all the rebates available.
Topic Author
student
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Re: New AC unit

Post by student »

The new AC and furnace system was installed today. It took them (2 guys) almost 8 hours.
sunsetting101
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Re: New AC unit

Post by sunsetting101 »

You might want them to show you where the capacitor is and how to change it. It should fail in about 3-5 years. Also know how to turn off the circuit breaker so to avoid getting some 220V and a new smoking hairdo.
student wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:55 pm The new AC and furnace system was installed today. It took them (2 guys) almost 8 hours.
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Re: New AC unit

Post by snackdog »

student wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:55 pm The new AC and furnace system was installed today. It took them (2 guys) almost 8 hours.
$8K is a great price for a 2.5T AC and furnace. What part of the country are you in? What sort of vendor was it - big operation or mom&pop?
BH Consumer FAQ: | Car? Used Toyota, Lexus or Miata. | House? 20% down and 3x salary. | Vacation house? No. | Umbrella? $1 million. | Goods? Costco.
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student
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Re: New AC unit

Post by student »

snackdog wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:36 am
student wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:55 pm The new AC and furnace system was installed today. It took them (2 guys) almost 8 hours.
$8K is a great price for a 2.5T AC and furnace. What part of the country are you in? What sort of vendor was it - big operation or mom&pop?
I am in the midwest. It is one of the biggest ones in the area. I went with them because they are the one who installed the initial equipment when the condo was built in the 1990's. AC: Lennox 13ACX, furnace: SL280. The company is supposedly giving me 5 years of labor including a free yearly check.
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student
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Re: New AC unit

Post by student »

sunsetting101 wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:20 am You might want them to show you where the capacitor is and how to change it. It should fail in about 3-5 years. Also know how to turn off the circuit breaker so to avoid getting some 220V and a new smoking hairdo.
student wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:55 pm The new AC and furnace system was installed today. It took them (2 guys) almost 8 hours.
I see. Too late. I will just have to call them if and when there is an issue.
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