Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

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jplee3
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Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by jplee3 »

Hi all

My inlaws are considering moving closer to us in a 55+ community and the community is comprised of condo and co-op units.

My basic understanding is that co-ops you own 'less' - in this case with the co-ops the HOA takes care of repairs and replacements on nearly everything except washer/dryer, paint and flooring. For condos you are pretty much responsible for everything. The HOA cost is about the same whether you buy a condo or co-op.

Any advice or suggestions on which to go with/avoid or other considerations?
Last edited by jplee3 on Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:26 pm, edited 4 times in total.
exodusNH
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Re: Coop/stock coop vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by exodusNH »

jplee3 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:03 pm Hi all

My inlaws are considering moving closer to us in a 55+ community and the community is comprised of condo and coop units.

My basic understanding is that coops you own 'less' - in this case with the coops the HOA takes care of repairs and replacements on nearly everything except washer/dryer, paint and flooring. For condos you are pretty much responsible for everything. The HOA cost is about the same whether you buy a condo or coop.

Any advice or suggestions on which to go with/avoid or other considerations?
You need to get the specifics on the coop.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Coop/stock coop vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by JoeRetire »

jplee3 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:03 pm My basic understanding is that coops you own 'less' - in this case with the coops the HOA takes care of repairs and replacements on nearly everything except washer/dryer, paint and flooring. For condos you are pretty much responsible for everything. The HOA cost is about the same whether you buy a condo or coop.
If your understanding is correct, why would anyone buy a condo there?

Seems an odd mish-mash for an HOA.
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alex_686
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Re: Coop/stock coop vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by alex_686 »

The primary difference is the legal structure.

Condo ownership can be lighter or heavily depending. Generally speaking with a condo you own “studs in”. i.e. you own the airspace and the drywall. The ownership, and thus who pays for maintenance, of decks and windows tend to vary widely.

In a co-op you are buying the right to lease the apartment which is actually owned by the co-op. i.e. they own the drywall. Some people favor this as the board has far greater power to regulate the building? Want to do some loud remodeling after work? The board can say no.
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adamthesmythe
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Re: Coop/stock coop vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by adamthesmythe »

Hard to say without investigating details.

In addition to the differences concerning association responsibility: coops might require approval of finances before buying, while with a condo all you need to do is show up with the money. Coops might be harder to re-sell or to finance with a mortgage.

I had a brief discussion concerning a coop (outside of NYC) and I recall that the prices were attractive but substantial financial resources were required.
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jplee3
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Re: Coop/stock coop vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by jplee3 »

Thanks all,

I'm trying to find more documentation but it's a bit confusing and overwhelming... co-ops definitely cost less than condos either way though

This is what I found from their website though in a PDF:

CO-OP VS. CONDO: WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE?

CO-OPERATIVES
• Co-op owners may be referred to as owners, members or shareholders
• Co-op purchase yields a share of stock in the corporation and the right to occupy a specific unit
• Ownership is evidenced by a stock (membership) certificate; membership is conferred by board approval
• Only one co-op may be owned at a time, reenforcing the owner-occupied nature of co-ops
• Individuals must be at least 55 years old to be named on the stock certificate
• Certain co-op appliances and fixtures may be maintained by United Mutual; alterations are the responsibility of members
• Co-op monthly assessments include county property taxes • Members are strongly encouraged to maintain personal homeowner’s insurance coverage


CONDOMINIUMS
• Condo owners may be referred to as owners or members
• Purchasing a condo yields a grant deed in real property
• Ownership is evidenced by a grant deed; membership is conferred by Board approval
• Multiple condos may be owned concurrently via stepped up income and net worth requirements, but only two condos can be occupied simultaneously
• Individuals may be of any legal age to purchase, but may not be eligible to reside
• All appliances and fixtures are the maintenance responsibility of the member; alterations are the responsibility of members
• Members are strongly encouraged to maintain personal homeowner’s insurance coverage



We met and spoke with a few residents, a couple of whom own both co-ops and condos. For one guy, he's living in a co-op and loves the fact that they'll take care of and fix nearly everything that goes wrong. He rents out his condo and was complaining about having to pay for everything (although, it sounds like it's not the point where it's cutting into his cashflow enough for him to want to sell).

Another point of consideration was that we *may* consider just buying or taking a loan ourselves and then renting the place back to my inlaws. I'm not sure if this is the wisest decision though based on current pricing of these units. If we were to go this route though, the condos would be the primary route to take due to grant deed issues and the fact that anyone can buy a condo without age restriction. The age restriction really applies to co-op and residents who are actually living there. But there are people who have bought condos and are renting them out to 55+. I think the thought on that is to own a condo with the possible intent of moving into it later down the road.
Last edited by jplee3 on Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
exodusNH
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Re: Coop/stock coop vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by exodusNH »

jplee3 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:10 pm Thanks all,

I'm trying to find more documentation but it's a bit confusing and overwhelming...

This is what I found from their website though in a PDF:

CO-OP VS. CONDO: WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE?

CO-OPERATIVES
• Co-op owners may be referred to as owners, members or shareholders
• Co-op purchase yields a share of stock in the corporation and the right to occupy a specific unit
• Ownership is evidenced by a stock (membership) certificate; membership is conferred by board approval
• Only one co-op may be owned at a time, reenforcing the owner-occupied nature of co-ops
• Individuals must be at least 55 years old to be named on the stock certificate
• Certain co-op appliances and fixtures may be maintained by United Mutual; alterations are the responsibility of members
• Co-op monthly assessments include county property taxes • Members are strongly encouraged to maintain personal homeowner’s insurance coverage


CONDOMINIUMS
• Condo owners may be referred to as owners or members
• Purchasing a condo yields a grant deed in real property
• Ownership is evidenced by a grant deed; membership is conferred by Board approval
• Multiple condos may be owned concurrently via stepped up income and net worth requirements, but only two condos can be occupied simultaneously
• Individuals may be of any legal age to purchase, but may not be eligible to reside
• All appliances and fixtures are the maintenance responsibility of the member; alterations are the responsibility of members
• Members are strongly encouraged to maintain personal homeowner’s insurance coverage



We met and spoke with a few residents, a couple of whom own both co-ops and condos. For one guy, he's living in a co-op and loves the fact that they'll take care of and fix nearly everything that goes wrong. He rents out his condo and was complaining about having to pay for everything (although, it sounds like it's not the point where it's cutting into his cashflow enough for him to want to sell).
Since the coop isn't a real property transfer, what happens when your parents die?

Do they get market equity on their unit? What happens when they need to sell?

Do they need permission to make changes to their unit?

Are they in a state that has a lot of coop buildings?
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jplee3
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Re: Coop/stock coop vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by jplee3 »

exodusNH wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:16 pm
jplee3 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:10 pm Thanks all,

I'm trying to find more documentation but it's a bit confusing and overwhelming...

This is what I found from their website though in a PDF:

CO-OP VS. CONDO: WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE?

CO-OPERATIVES
• Co-op owners may be referred to as owners, members or shareholders
• Co-op purchase yields a share of stock in the corporation and the right to occupy a specific unit
• Ownership is evidenced by a stock (membership) certificate; membership is conferred by board approval
• Only one co-op may be owned at a time, reenforcing the owner-occupied nature of co-ops
• Individuals must be at least 55 years old to be named on the stock certificate
• Certain co-op appliances and fixtures may be maintained by United Mutual; alterations are the responsibility of members
• Co-op monthly assessments include county property taxes • Members are strongly encouraged to maintain personal homeowner’s insurance coverage


CONDOMINIUMS
• Condo owners may be referred to as owners or members
• Purchasing a condo yields a grant deed in real property
• Ownership is evidenced by a grant deed; membership is conferred by Board approval
• Multiple condos may be owned concurrently via stepped up income and net worth requirements, but only two condos can be occupied simultaneously
• Individuals may be of any legal age to purchase, but may not be eligible to reside
• All appliances and fixtures are the maintenance responsibility of the member; alterations are the responsibility of members
• Members are strongly encouraged to maintain personal homeowner’s insurance coverage



We met and spoke with a few residents, a couple of whom own both co-ops and condos. For one guy, he's living in a co-op and loves the fact that they'll take care of and fix nearly everything that goes wrong. He rents out his condo and was complaining about having to pay for everything (although, it sounds like it's not the point where it's cutting into his cashflow enough for him to want to sell).
Since the coop isn't a real property transfer, what happens when your parents die?

Do they get market equity on their unit? What happens when they need to sell?

Do they need permission to make changes to their unit?

Are they in a state that has a lot of coop buildings?
Those are good questions and we'll have to get answers on the realtor regarding those. As far as permission to make changes, I believe they may need to get permission - I know that paint, flooring, w/d and probably microwaves are the responsibilities of the owners. Whether or not permission is needed to change those I'm not sure (I would guess maybe not). Any change that's an addition (like adding an exhaust/hookup for washer/dryer, central AC, minisplit, etc I believe requires HOA approval whether it's a condo or coop. The realtor was telling us too that if you do make changes to a co-op such as with windows, you will no longer be covered for fixes ore repairs which makes sense.

I'm in CA - not sure how many co-ops are out here. I know there are a number of 55+ communities though. EDIT: found a source here that estimates around 30k of stock coops in CA - https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/S/S ... operatives
exodusNH
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Re: Coop/stock coop vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by exodusNH »

jplee3 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:40 pm
exodusNH wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:16 pm
jplee3 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:10 pm Thanks all,

I'm trying to find more documentation but it's a bit confusing and overwhelming...

This is what I found from their website though in a PDF:

CO-OP VS. CONDO: WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE?

CO-OPERATIVES
• Co-op owners may be referred to as owners, members or shareholders
• Co-op purchase yields a share of stock in the corporation and the right to occupy a specific unit
• Ownership is evidenced by a stock (membership) certificate; membership is conferred by board approval
• Only one co-op may be owned at a time, reenforcing the owner-occupied nature of co-ops
• Individuals must be at least 55 years old to be named on the stock certificate
• Certain co-op appliances and fixtures may be maintained by United Mutual; alterations are the responsibility of members
• Co-op monthly assessments include county property taxes • Members are strongly encouraged to maintain personal homeowner’s insurance coverage


CONDOMINIUMS
• Condo owners may be referred to as owners or members
• Purchasing a condo yields a grant deed in real property
• Ownership is evidenced by a grant deed; membership is conferred by Board approval
• Multiple condos may be owned concurrently via stepped up income and net worth requirements, but only two condos can be occupied simultaneously
• Individuals may be of any legal age to purchase, but may not be eligible to reside
• All appliances and fixtures are the maintenance responsibility of the member; alterations are the responsibility of members
• Members are strongly encouraged to maintain personal homeowner’s insurance coverage



We met and spoke with a few residents, a couple of whom own both co-ops and condos. For one guy, he's living in a co-op and loves the fact that they'll take care of and fix nearly everything that goes wrong. He rents out his condo and was complaining about having to pay for everything (although, it sounds like it's not the point where it's cutting into his cashflow enough for him to want to sell).
Since the coop isn't a real property transfer, what happens when your parents die?

Do they get market equity on their unit? What happens when they need to sell?

Do they need permission to make changes to their unit?

Are they in a state that has a lot of coop buildings?
Those are good questions and we'll have to get answers on the realtor regarding those. As far as permission to make changes, I believe they may need to get permission - I know that paint, flooring, w/d and probably microwaves are the responsibilities of the owners. Whether or not permission is needed to change those I'm not sure (I would guess maybe not). Any change that's an addition (like adding an exhaust/hookup for washer/dryer, central AC, minisplit, etc I believe requires HOA approval whether it's a condo or coop. The realtor was telling us too that if you do make changes to a co-op such as with windows, you will no longer be covered for fixes ore repairs which makes sense.

I'm in CA - not sure how many co-ops are out here. I know there are a number of 55+ communities though.
It makes sense that changes altering common property require board permission in both cases. (E.g. drilling a hole for a mini split.) But could they remodel the bathroom?

The biggest question really revolves around what they can do when they no longer need or want the unit. The coop isn't a real property transaction.

This was one article I found that covers some of the differences: https://www.washingtonpost.com/realesta ... story.html

And this is the one that mentions that some are structured such that you don't enjoy the full appreciation: https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/mort ... is-a-co-op

I can't vouch for the accuracy of the articles, but at least they give you a starting point.
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Re: Coop/stock coop vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by 4nursebee »

I came to read about chickens!
perhaps this is about a co-op?
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jplee3
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Re: Coop/stock coop vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by jplee3 »

4nursebee wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:21 pm I came to read about chickens!
perhaps this is about a co-op?

LOL, yes, I was just being lazy with the spelling. I've changed the thread title and my references in the first post at least ;)
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jplee3
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Re: Coop/stock coop vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by jplee3 »

exodusNH wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:00 pm
jplee3 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:40 pm
exodusNH wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:16 pm
jplee3 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:10 pm Thanks all,

I'm trying to find more documentation but it's a bit confusing and overwhelming...

This is what I found from their website though in a PDF:

CO-OP VS. CONDO: WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE?

CO-OPERATIVES
• Co-op owners may be referred to as owners, members or shareholders
• Co-op purchase yields a share of stock in the corporation and the right to occupy a specific unit
• Ownership is evidenced by a stock (membership) certificate; membership is conferred by board approval
• Only one co-op may be owned at a time, reenforcing the owner-occupied nature of co-ops
• Individuals must be at least 55 years old to be named on the stock certificate
• Certain co-op appliances and fixtures may be maintained by United Mutual; alterations are the responsibility of members
• Co-op monthly assessments include county property taxes • Members are strongly encouraged to maintain personal homeowner’s insurance coverage


CONDOMINIUMS
• Condo owners may be referred to as owners or members
• Purchasing a condo yields a grant deed in real property
• Ownership is evidenced by a grant deed; membership is conferred by Board approval
• Multiple condos may be owned concurrently via stepped up income and net worth requirements, but only two condos can be occupied simultaneously
• Individuals may be of any legal age to purchase, but may not be eligible to reside
• All appliances and fixtures are the maintenance responsibility of the member; alterations are the responsibility of members
• Members are strongly encouraged to maintain personal homeowner’s insurance coverage



We met and spoke with a few residents, a couple of whom own both co-ops and condos. For one guy, he's living in a co-op and loves the fact that they'll take care of and fix nearly everything that goes wrong. He rents out his condo and was complaining about having to pay for everything (although, it sounds like it's not the point where it's cutting into his cashflow enough for him to want to sell).
Since the coop isn't a real property transfer, what happens when your parents die?

Do they get market equity on their unit? What happens when they need to sell?

Do they need permission to make changes to their unit?

Are they in a state that has a lot of coop buildings?
Those are good questions and we'll have to get answers on the realtor regarding those. As far as permission to make changes, I believe they may need to get permission - I know that paint, flooring, w/d and probably microwaves are the responsibilities of the owners. Whether or not permission is needed to change those I'm not sure (I would guess maybe not). Any change that's an addition (like adding an exhaust/hookup for washer/dryer, central AC, minisplit, etc I believe requires HOA approval whether it's a condo or coop. The realtor was telling us too that if you do make changes to a co-op such as with windows, you will no longer be covered for fixes ore repairs which makes sense.

I'm in CA - not sure how many co-ops are out here. I know there are a number of 55+ communities though.
It makes sense that changes altering common property require board permission in both cases. (E.g. drilling a hole for a mini split.) But could they remodel the bathroom?

The biggest question really revolves around what they can do when they no longer need or want the unit. The coop isn't a real property transaction.

This was one article I found that covers some of the differences: https://www.washingtonpost.com/realesta ... story.html

And this is the one that mentions that some are structured such that you don't enjoy the full appreciation: https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/mort ... is-a-co-op

I can't vouch for the accuracy of the articles, but at least they give you a starting point.

Thanks. So the realtor says these are market rate coops - practically I don't know what that means and if it really just means that buyers know co-ops are valued less and therefore aren't going to participate in some ridiculous bidding war. The realtor said they don't really have bidding wars in these types of communities, however there seems to be an expectation that people will offer over asking.

Here's an example of a *condo* listing where the realtor showing us around contacted the listing agent and the agent told her she has one offer but it's at asking and it was implied that offering asking price for this total fixer of a unit was not acceptable. The realtor was saying that if we offered $215-220k, we would have very good chances of getting it, also because she has a relationship with the listing agent.
https://www.redfin.com/CA/Laguna-Woods/ ... me/5286184

The unit is very close to the freeway so is noisy. The realtor was 'roughly estimating' that $25-30k would get us new double paned windows, a w/d hookup, new kitchen counters/cabinets, new bathroom counters/cabinets/tub (or walk-in), paint and new flooring. That seems a bit optimistic but this is also a smaller place (no more than 1000-1100 sq ft iirc)

Here's what she says about some of the other questions:

"When your parents pass away, their heirs acquire the coop- it can be sold or you could lease it . You could choose to live in it..

The Proceeds from the sale of the property, belong to you.

Regarding upgrades, you are supposed to obtain permits from the HOA office for things like new windows, major renovations."
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by TheGreyingDuke »

You need to check the by-laws of the co-op for specifics. In our case, the shares that we own give us the right to occupy our house. In NY banks are accustomed to coops and write mortgages with no real difference to how they write them on traditional ownership homes.

We have our shares in the name of our respective trusts, it passes after death with no difference to traditional ownership. Details may differ depending on by-laws and the laws of your state. What state is this in?
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jplee3
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by jplee3 »

TheGreyingDuke wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:55 pm You need to check the by-laws of the co-op for specifics. In our case, the shares that we own give us the right to occupy our house. In NY banks are accustomed to coops and write mortgages with no real difference to how they write them on traditional ownership homes.

We have our shares in the name of our respective trusts, it passes after death with no difference to traditional ownership. Details may differ depending on by-laws and the laws of your state. What state is this in?

This is in CA. My understanding of it is the same as what you describe: "the shares that we own give us the right to occupy our house" - one thing the realtor said about this is that if my in-laws need to take a loan it's going to be a lot harder getting one for a co-op because of the fact that it's not real property. If we wanted to help my in-laws by purchasing a co-op it would be very difficult because for a co-op purchase you definitely need to be 55+ in order to purchase it. Given that, I'm unsure how things work if my in-laws were to pass before we reach 55+ - it *sounds* like it would be passed on via inheritance and you could rent it out or sell it from there (I would think this might be the exception if you're not yet 55)
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Re: Coop/stock coop vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by JoeRetire »

jplee3 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:15 pm https://www.redfin.com/CA/Laguna-Woods/ ... me/5286184

The unit is very close to the freeway so is noisy. The realtor was 'roughly estimating' that $25-30k would get us new double paned windows, a w/d hookup, new kitchen counters/cabinets, new bathroom counters/cabinets/tub (or walk-in), paint and new flooring. That seems a bit optimistic but this is also a smaller place (no more than 1000-1100 sq ft iirc)
The listing says 866 sq ft.
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jplee3
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Re: Coop/stock coop vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by jplee3 »

JoeRetire wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:16 pm
jplee3 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:15 pm https://www.redfin.com/CA/Laguna-Woods/ ... me/5286184

The unit is very close to the freeway so is noisy. The realtor was 'roughly estimating' that $25-30k would get us new double paned windows, a w/d hookup, new kitchen counters/cabinets, new bathroom counters/cabinets/tub (or walk-in), paint and new flooring. That seems a bit optimistic but this is also a smaller place (no more than 1000-1100 sq ft iirc)
The listing says 866 sq ft.
Ah yea, overlooked that. This was one of the smaller residences. Many of the others were in the 1000sq ft range. My in-laws were getting excited at every property they went into, even this one. I've learned we really have to temper them otherwise they'll likely make a pretty foolish decision. Before we even visited they were already talking about buying a place and moving here without understanding how everything works. In any case, I wish my wife and I would have bought a condo or two in this community back in 2011-2012 - that would have been a great rental investment and way to help provision something for our parents so we're not scrambling the way we are now. Supposedly this community appreciates slowly because of the nature of it being a 55+ community but I'm pretty sure I've seen fixers under $150k that last time we looked (which was probably around 2012-2014)
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Re: Coop/stock coop vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by JoeRetire »

jplee3 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:28 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:16 pm
jplee3 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:15 pm https://www.redfin.com/CA/Laguna-Woods/ ... me/5286184

The unit is very close to the freeway so is noisy. The realtor was 'roughly estimating' that $25-30k would get us new double paned windows, a w/d hookup, new kitchen counters/cabinets, new bathroom counters/cabinets/tub (or walk-in), paint and new flooring. That seems a bit optimistic but this is also a smaller place (no more than 1000-1100 sq ft iirc)
The listing says 866 sq ft.
Ah yea, overlooked that. This was one of the smaller residences. Many of the others were in the 1000sq ft range. My in-laws were getting excited at every property they went into, even this one. I've learned we really have to temper them otherwise they'll likely make a pretty foolish decision. Before we even visited they were already talking about buying a place and moving here without understanding how everything works. In any case, I wish my wife and I would have bought a condo or two in this community back in 2011-2012 - that would have been a great rental investment and way to help provision something for our parents so we're not scrambling the way we are now. Supposedly this community appreciates slowly because of the nature of it being a 55+ community but I'm pretty sure I've seen fixers under $150k that last time we looked (which was probably around 2012-2014)
The HOA fee is $777. And it appears to need a lot of work.
What kind of rent can a small, old, unit like this command?
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carne_asada
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Re: Coop/stock coop vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by carne_asada »

Which ever they decide- read the by-laws a rules of the condo/co-op very carefully - don't take the word of the real estate agent saying things work a certain way. I wouldn't buy anything next to a noisy high way- - it's both noisy and polluted. New high quality windows may help with the sound a little but it will still be audible if it's audible with the single pane. Read this on the effects of living near an interstate
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by Hebell »

One thing that is missing here, is that co-ops have a management company that handles not just property management, but all the types of business decisions normally made by a condominium board of directors.

In contrast, condominiums have property managers to take care of the day-to-day operations, but the board of directors still has to function managerially. That works out pretty well with condos under 40 years old. But with older buildings, condominium board of directors often failed to do their job. It's harder taking care of old buildings. There are far more quotes and proposals to acquire. You better hope to God you have someone on your board with project management experience, and ideally some construction, trades or engineering experience. And you better hope you have a second person who understands cash flow, and has the political chops to forge consensus when unit owners need to approve a special assessment, or accept a large jump in their monthly payments.

I'm the president of a very large condo association, and I could say I would definitely buy a co-op arrangement if the building were an older building. I have seen a level of dysfunction in other condo associations that would just blow your mind.

Remember, condominium directors are just volunteers. No qualifications needed at all.
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by gavinsiu »

My mom lives in Rossmoor a retirement community in CA, so you need to be 55+ to live there. She lives in a co-op. The co-op property is considerably cheaper. One issue is that most banks do not handle co-ops. We had to use a mortgage company that specialized in co-ops. Many of the residents did not get a mortgage and just paid the cost of the house outright. The property can be also purchased by someone younger than 55 as long as it is for the sole purpose of allowing a 55+ parent to live there. This is apparently a fairly common arrangement.

The co-op is managed by a mutual. I believe there are a total of about 8 mutual in the community. The community is a mix of different houses ranging from co-ops (probably the cheapest) to mansions. The HOA fee varies depending on the property and amenities. My mom is currently paying like $1100. This seems like a lot but it covers the property tax, the water, cable and internet service. As a bonus, they manage the exterior and interior. In the case of the interior, it is managed as long as you don't make changes from the original. For example, I recently had the HOA replace her sagging outlets, and that was covered by the HOA. I don't know if the property tax being included in a HOA may be due to it being a co-op.

I believe you are allowed to modify your co-op, but you have to inform the HOA of your desired changes. I think this is mostly because they are not responsible for fixing anything you modified.

Keep in mind that this is an example of a specific co-op. Your situation may be different so read the docs carefully.
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by jplee3 »

gavinsiu wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:03 pm My mom lives in Rossmoor a retirement community in CA, so you need to be 55+ to live there. She lives in a co-op. The co-op property is considerably cheaper. One issue is that most banks do not handle co-ops. We had to use a mortgage company that specialized in co-ops. Many of the residents did not get a mortgage and just paid the cost of the house outright. The property can be also purchased by someone younger than 55 as long as it is for the sole purpose of allowing a 55+ parent to live there. This is apparently a fairly common arrangement.

The co-op is managed by a mutual. I believe there are a total of about 8 mutual in the community. The community is a mix of different houses ranging from co-ops (probably the cheapest) to mansions. The HOA fee varies depending on the property and amenities. My mom is currently paying like $1100. This seems like a lot but it covers the property tax, the water, cable and internet service. As a bonus, they manage the exterior and interior. In the case of the interior, it is managed as long as you don't make changes from the original. For example, I recently had the HOA replace her sagging outlets, and that was covered by the HOA. I don't know if the property tax being included in a HOA may be due to it being a co-op.

I believe you are allowed to modify your co-op, but you have to inform the HOA of your desired changes. I think this is mostly because they are not responsible for fixing anything you modified.

Keep in mind that this is an example of a specific co-op. Your situation may be different so read the docs carefully.
This sounds very familiar if not the same as the LWV community regarding co-ops, the HOA (and what it covers) as well as how they are managed. The LWV co-ops also have property taxes folded in and most utilities. The only thing that's not is electricity. I'm not sure whether internet is included - will have to double-check the docs. And yes, as long as everything is the original (or I guess if it wasn't the original, as long as it was replaced by the HOA prior) then it will also be covered by them. I think this can be tricky with purchasing because you'll probably want to find out what was original and what wasn't. Some people have gotten their windows replaced during a remodel so those are no longer in scope of being fixed by the HOA

Hebell wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:08 pm One thing that is missing here, is that co-ops have a management company that handles not just property management, but all the types of business decisions normally made by a condominium board of directors.

In contrast, condominiums have property managers to take care of the day-to-day operations, but the board of directors still has to function managerially. That works out pretty well with condos under 40 years old. But with older buildings, condominium board of directors often failed to do their job. It's harder taking care of old buildings. There are far more quotes and proposals to acquire. You better hope to God you have someone on your board with project management experience, and ideally some construction, trades or engineering experience. And you better hope you have a second person who understands cash flow, and has the political chops to forge consensus when unit owners need to approve a special assessment, or accept a large jump in their monthly payments.

I'm the president of a very large condo association, and I could say I would definitely buy a co-op arrangement if the building were an older building. I have seen a level of dysfunction in other condo associations that would just blow your mind.

Remember, condominium directors are just volunteers. No qualifications needed at all.
Thanks for shedding light on this and very good to know. We used to live in a condo and ppl that were on the board were terrible - the HOA was mismanaged and likely there was some kind of ongoing corruption. There was one guy on the board who had been on the board for probably decades and he wielded a lot of influence and power over it (and probably not in the best way). I watched the community go straight downhill after a decade of living there. Glad we're out of that place.
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by tj »

Hebell wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:08 pm One thing that is missing here, is that co-ops have a management company that handles not just property management, but all the types of business decisions normally made by a condominium board of directors.

In contrast, condominiums have property managers to take care of the day-to-day operations, but the board of directors still has to function managerially. That works out pretty well with condos under 40 years old. But with older buildings, condominium board of directors often failed to do their job. It's harder taking care of old buildings. There are far more quotes and proposals to acquire. You better hope to God you have someone on your board with project management experience, and ideally some construction, trades or engineering experience. And you better hope you have a second person who understands cash flow, and has the political chops to forge consensus when unit owners need to approve a special assessment, or accept a large jump in their monthly payments.

I'm the president of a very large condo association, and I could say I would definitely buy a co-op arrangement if the building were an older building. I have seen a level of dysfunction in other condo associations that would just blow your mind.

Remember, condominium directors are just volunteers. No qualifications needed at all.
Co-ops have volunteer board of directors too. And those who buy into a co-op own a fractional share of the corporation that owns the whole property, not just residential rights.
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by tj »

gavinsiu wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:03 pm My mom lives in Rossmoor a retirement community in CA, so you need to be 55+ to live there. She lives in a co-op. The co-op property is considerably cheaper. One issue is that most banks do not handle co-ops. We had to use a mortgage company that specialized in co-ops. Many of the residents did not get a mortgage and just paid the cost of the house outright. The property can be also purchased by someone younger than 55 as long as it is for the sole purpose of allowing a 55+ parent to live there. This is apparently a fairly common arrangement.

The co-op is managed by a mutual. I believe there are a total of about 8 mutual in the community. The community is a mix of different houses ranging from co-ops (probably the cheapest) to mansions. The HOA fee varies depending on the property and amenities. My mom is currently paying like $1100. This seems like a lot but it covers the property tax, the water, cable and internet service. As a bonus, they manage the exterior and interior. In the case of the interior, it is managed as long as you don't make changes from the original. For example, I recently had the HOA replace her sagging outlets, and that was covered by the HOA. I don't know if the property tax being included in a HOA may be due to it being a co-op.

I believe you are allowed to modify your co-op, but you have to inform the HOA of your desired changes. I think this is mostly because they are not responsible for fixing anything you modified.

Keep in mind that this is an example of a specific co-op. Your situation may be different so read the docs carefully.
The co-op pays property taxes and they should provide the member with their passed thru deductible portion of it
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Re: Coop/stock coop vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by JoeRetire »

carne_asada wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:54 pm Which ever they decide- read the by-laws a rules of the condo/co-op very carefully - don't take the word of the real estate agent saying things work a certain way.
Completely agree.

We had a unit in our HOA become available recently. It was quickly scooped up by someone who planned to use it for short term rentals and AirBnB.

Unfortunately, her real estate agent failed to inform her that our Bylaws prevent renting out any unit for less than 6 months. Fortunately, she met with the Welcoming Committee before closing, was told of the rule, and backed out of the deal.

She was quickly replaced by a couple who plans to live here full-time.

The Real Estate agents have copies of all of our documents. They simply fail to explain them to their buyers sometimes.
Last edited by JoeRetire on Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by jplee3 »

tj wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:12 am
Hebell wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:08 pm One thing that is missing here, is that co-ops have a management company that handles not just property management, but all the types of business decisions normally made by a condominium board of directors.

In contrast, condominiums have property managers to take care of the day-to-day operations, but the board of directors still has to function managerially. That works out pretty well with condos under 40 years old. But with older buildings, condominium board of directors often failed to do their job. It's harder taking care of old buildings. There are far more quotes and proposals to acquire. You better hope to God you have someone on your board with project management experience, and ideally some construction, trades or engineering experience. And you better hope you have a second person who understands cash flow, and has the political chops to forge consensus when unit owners need to approve a special assessment, or accept a large jump in their monthly payments.

I'm the president of a very large condo association, and I could say I would definitely buy a co-op arrangement if the building were an older building. I have seen a level of dysfunction in other condo associations that would just blow your mind.

Remember, condominium directors are just volunteers. No qualifications needed at all.
Co-ops have volunteer board of directors too. And those who buy into a co-op own a fractional share of the corporation that owns the whole property, not just residential rights.

So then does it vary as far as co-ops having mgmt companies handling all the business decisions/logistics/property mgmt or is that generally how all co-ops are regardless (even if they have a volunteer board of director)? Or is there ever a time where a co-op would operate like a condo HOA in the sense of what Hebell described?
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by JoeRetire »

gavinsiu wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:03 pm The co-op is managed by a mutual. I believe there are a total of about 8 mutual in the community.
What is a mutual?
For example, I recently had the HOA replace her sagging outlets
What is a sagging outlet?
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by gavinsiu »

JoeRetire wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:25 am What is a mutual?

What is a sagging outlet?
This is from the Rossmoor website:

Rossmoor has 22 Homeowners’ Associations (HOA) that are called Mutuals. The Mutuals are nonprofit corporations created to manage the Common Interest Developments (CID). Each Mutual has a board of directors that establishes policies and rules and sets budgets to maintain the property. The following is information on the Rossmoor Mutuals, their boards, their policies and minutes.

A sagging outlet is basically an outlet where the socket is so worn out that it no longer holds a plug by tension. I had the HOA replace it because it is annoying and could (but unlikely) caused an electric fire.
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by alex_686 »

gavinsiu wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:34 am Rossmoor has 22 Homeowners’ Associations (HOA) that are called Mutuals. The Mutuals are nonprofit corporations created to manage the Common Interest Developments (CID). Each Mutual has a board of directors that establishes policies and rules and sets budgets to maintain the property. The following is information on the Rossmoor Mutuals, their boards, their policies and minutes.
For maybe another viewpoint, a mutual is a not-for-profit corporation that is owned by it's users to enhance the common good of its owners. i.e., all of the common bits of the property (structural elements like the roof and sidewalk, amenities like the pool, etc.) and owned by the owners of the units. As such it is the owners of the units that need to organize, maintain, etc. Owevership percentage and rights are spelled out by the by-laws and are pretty much fixed when the association is set up.

Functionally speaking this works pretty much the same for a co-op as for a condo.

Generally speaking since a co-op owns more of the property the board has greater power. i.e., for most condos the owner owns the electric socket so they would have to pay.

Generally speaking the costs are similar between the two. i.e., A co-op would have a higher association fee because the co-op has to maintain the electrical outlet. A similar condo would have a lower association fee but you would have to take care of the electrical outlet yourself. In theory it all evens out in the long run.
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by chw »

You need the HOA docs, and the Coop association bylaws. They may may not be substantially different. It’s unusual to see both types of deed ownership in the same project- I’d ask why. My guess is there were different developers for different stages of the project. There could be advantages to ownership in one part of development. Ask the realtor, or search online for more info.
Last edited by chw on Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by jplee3 »

chw wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:09 pm You need the HOA docs, and the Coop association bylaws. They may may not be substantially different. It’s unusual to see both types old deed ownership in the same project- I’d ask why. My guess is there were different developers for different stages of the project. There could be advantages to ownership in one part of development. Ask the realtor, or search online for more info.
What I'm starting to hear, particularly from my in-laws' friends who live in the community and own multiple units (including co-ops and condos) is that they end up living in the co-op and renting their condo(s). I think this may also be because it's 'easier' to rent condos out there vs co-ops. I think for a while they actually weren't allowing co-ops to be rented but I could be mistaken. Anyway, it seems like people who own both prefer to live in the co-op themselves. Whether or not that's the most 'sound' decision I'm still not sure but I guess it makes sense from the standpoint of not having to worry as much about repairs and fixes to your own place.
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by gavinsiu »

Keep in mine that not all property on Rossmoor is a co-op. In fact, I think majority of the properties are not co-ops. Due to the difficulty of getting a mortgage, a co-op is fairly undesirable as a investment property. On the plus side, the property is significantly cheaper and allow my mom to live in the bay area where everything is essentially out of reach.
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by HomeStretch »

Who owns the land under the co-operative units? If leased from a third party, be sure to review the land lease agreement. If the third-party lease expires in the near-ish future, consider whether:
(1) the co-op association will be able to renew the lease at similar lease rates/terms or at all
(2) it may impact future resale value
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by tj »

jplee3 wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:24 am
tj wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:12 am
Hebell wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:08 pm One thing that is missing here, is that co-ops have a management company that handles not just property management, but all the types of business decisions normally made by a condominium board of directors.

In contrast, condominiums have property managers to take care of the day-to-day operations, but the board of directors still has to function managerially. That works out pretty well with condos under 40 years old. But with older buildings, condominium board of directors often failed to do their job. It's harder taking care of old buildings. There are far more quotes and proposals to acquire. You better hope to God you have someone on your board with project management experience, and ideally some construction, trades or engineering experience. And you better hope you have a second person who understands cash flow, and has the political chops to forge consensus when unit owners need to approve a special assessment, or accept a large jump in their monthly payments.

I'm the president of a very large condo association, and I could say I would definitely buy a co-op arrangement if the building were an older building. I have seen a level of dysfunction in other condo associations that would just blow your mind.

Remember, condominium directors are just volunteers. No qualifications needed at all.
Co-ops have volunteer board of directors too. And those who buy into a co-op own a fractional share of the corporation that owns the whole property, not just residential rights.

So then does it vary as far as co-ops having mgmt companies handling all the business decisions/logistics/property mgmt or is that generally how all co-ops are regardless (even if they have a volunteer board of director)? Or is there ever a time where a co-op would operate like a condo HOA in the sense of what Hebell described?
Some co-ops hire a management company, just like some condo hoa's hire management companies. I lived in a co-op that employed a W2'd manager rather than a contracted management company. The smaller the HOA or co-op is, the less they are likely spending on management.
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by Hebell »

In general the governing documents of a co-op will not let it to degenerate into the abdication of managerial responsibility and flouting of statutes that I have seen in condo associations, in which one strong incompetent or corrupt president or vice president can poison the mix.
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by gavinsiu »

HomeStretch wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:37 pm Who owns the land under the co-operative units? If leased from a third party, be sure to review the land lease agreement. If the third-party lease expires in the near-ish future, consider whether:
(1) the co-op association will be able to renew the lease at similar lease rates/terms or at all
(2) it may impact future resale value
For the roosmoor, the co-op land was actually not owned by the owner but by their co-op.
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by jplee3 »

HomeStretch wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:37 pm Who owns the land under the co-operative units? If leased from a third party, be sure to review the land lease agreement. If the third-party lease expires in the near-ish future, consider whether:
(1) the co-op association will be able to renew the lease at similar lease rates/terms or at all
(2) it may impact future resale value

I'm having trouble finding this but the articles of incorporation state this corporation was formed under the Davis-Stirling common interest act (https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Sta ... G-ACT-2014). Not sure what that means in its entirety but perhaps that covers anything pertaining to land leases?

Other than that, this was in the information pdf for estate and heirs of members:
"CO-OPERATIVE MEMBERSHIP United Mutual is a stock-cooperative and there is no grant deed. A membership certificate (share of stock in the corporation) is issued through the United Mutual Board of Directors. The owner of the stock has the exclusive right to occupy the dwelling unit (subject to Board approval) through a continuing leasehold interest. The property owner is the United Mutual Corporation. The Corporation pays the property taxes through the monthly fees collected from the stockholder. It is a requirement that the original membership certificate be returned to the corporation upon sale, transfer, or change of the membership. If the owner has encumbered the property with a mortgage, it is likely that the lender is holding the certificate as collateral. Similarly, if the owner has obtained property tax assistance from the State of California, the State liens the property and holds the United Mutual Stock Certificate until the assistance is repaid at time of sale or death of the owner. Only real persons or revocable living trusts may own stock in United Mutual. After the death of the Trustor, the Successor Trustee should distribute the stock certificate within the earliest reasonable timeline. Please refer to United Mutual Bylaws, Article III Section 6, Transfer of Memberships"
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by chw »

jplee3 wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:25 pm
chw wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:09 pm You need the HOA docs, and the Coop association bylaws. They may may not be substantially different. It’s unusual to see both types old deed ownership in the same project- I’d ask why. My guess is there were different developers for different stages of the project. There could be advantages to ownership in one part of development. Ask the realtor, or search online for more info.
What I'm starting to hear, particularly from my in-laws' friends who live in the community and own multiple units (including co-ops and condos) is that they end up living in the co-op and renting their condo(s). I think this may also be because it's 'easier' to rent condos out there vs co-ops. I think for a while they actually weren't allowing co-ops to be rented but I could be mistaken. Anyway, it seems like people who own both prefer to live in the co-op themselves. Whether or not that's the most 'sound' decision I'm still not sure but I guess it makes sense from the standpoint of not having to worry as much about repairs and fixes to your own place.
In general, Co-ops tend to have more restrictive bylaws that may restrict how you use the unit you live in (owners actually own a % of the entire building/project, rather an actual unit). In some Co-ops, their bylaws can restrict ownership to certain classes of folks (such as over age 55), which have been sometimes challenged in court proceedings. Some owners of Co-ops may like this from a standpoint of lifestyle, and knowing how a building will be operated.
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by JoeRetire »

gavinsiu wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:34 am
JoeRetire wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:25 am What is a mutual?

What is a sagging outlet?
This is from the Rossmoor website:

Rossmoor has 22 Homeowners’ Associations (HOA) that are called Mutuals. The Mutuals are nonprofit corporations created to manage the Common Interest Developments (CID). Each Mutual has a board of directors that establishes policies and rules and sets budgets to maintain the property. The following is information on the Rossmoor Mutuals, their boards, their policies and minutes.
Thanks.
A sagging outlet is basically an outlet where the socket is so worn out that it no longer holds a plug by tension. I had the HOA replace it because it is annoying and could (but unlikely) caused an electric fire.
Must have been very old. I've never had an electrical outlet fail to hold a plug.
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by jplee3 »

As a side, we're also trying to figure out what to do for my in-laws so that they don't have to keep driving 1.5-2hrs just to see us. They would like to sell their current house sooner than later so they can get the funds but we're thinking a contingent sale might be a bit of a stressor with all the timelines and feeling 'locked' in or limited with selections of homes (as well as sale price on their place now). That said, they are now considering renting in the community until they find a place. It's quite expensive to rent though ($2000-3000 and they only get like $2400 in SSI) so they threw the idea out of potentially moving in with us, paying "rent" and then taking their time to look for a unit in this community.
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by junior »

chw wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:13 pm In some Co-ops, their bylaws can restrict ownership to certain classes of folks (such as over age 55),
Condos can also restrict to people over 55.
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by jplee3 »

junior wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:26 pm
chw wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:13 pm In some Co-ops, their bylaws can restrict ownership to certain classes of folks (such as over age 55),
Condos can also restrict to people over 55.
In this case, at least according to the realtor, you can buy a condo regardless of age but if you're under 55 you cannot occupy it. The only option is to hold it vacant or rent to someone who is 55+
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by chw »

junior wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:26 pm
chw wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:13 pm In some Co-ops, their bylaws can restrict ownership to certain classes of folks (such as over age 55),
Condos can also restrict to people over 55.
True, but Co-ops have been known to be very restrictive on who they allow into their communities. Richard Nixon was once denied permission to buy a Co-op in NYC after he resigned as president.
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by gavinsiu »

JoeRetire wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:15 pm
A sagging outlet is basically an outlet where the socket is so worn out that it no longer holds a plug by tension. I had the HOA replace it because it is annoying and could (but unlikely) caused an electric fire.
Must have been very old. I've never had an electrical outlet fail to hold a plug.
I am guessing that it's the original plug from the 70's. I believe this is when the unit was built. It could be that they were using the cheapest outlet that passed code.
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by gavinsiu »

jplee3 wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:29 pm In this case, at least according to the realtor, you can buy a condo regardless of age but if you're under 55 you cannot occupy it. The only option is to hold it vacant or rent to someone who is 55+
I think this is a restriction of the community. Most retirement community will not let you live there unless you were over a certain age. For example, I see below 50 year olds visiting their retired parents, but I don't see them living with them even as a live in type of help.
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by gavinsiu »

chw wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:58 pm True, but Co-ops have been known to be very restrictive on who they allow into their communities. Richard Nixon was once denied permission to buy a Co-op in NYC after he resigned as president.
HOA can employed a lot of restrictions. One of my relatives had a lot of problems with their HOA. They would get a fine for leaving their hose attacked to their faucet.

I have heard that co-ops are supposed to have every member vote you in, but at Roosmoor, I don't recall my mom ever getting notice about voting in a new person, probably because of the large number of people involved.
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by alex_686 »

gavinsiu wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:19 pm I have heard that co-ops are supposed to have every member vote you in, but at Roosmoor, I don't recall my mom ever getting notice about voting in a new person, probably because of the large number of people involved.
It is common for this power to be assigned to the elected board. You would need a very dedicated community to meet regularly to vote in every protentional member.
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by junior »

gavinsiu wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:19 pm
chw wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:58 pm True, but Co-ops have been known to be very restrictive on who they allow into their communities. Richard Nixon was once denied permission to buy a Co-op in NYC after he resigned as president.
I have heard that co-ops are supposed to have every member vote you in, but at Roosmoor, I don't recall my mom ever getting notice about voting in a new person, probably because of the large number of people involved.
Some co-ops may have every member vote you in, or require some vetting by the board before you can move in, but it is not reasonable to assume that any particular co-op has such a rule.

It's all going to depend on how the legal documents were written when the project was founded, and if the legal documents were amended by a super majority of voters since the founding.

My guess would be a 55 or older co-op community in California would be less likely to have been designed with a "vetting" process similar to the one in New York City that denied a place for Richard Nixon. (However they will certainly check your age).

But this is all something OP will need to investigate
junior
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by junior »

gavinsiu wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:11 pm
jplee3 wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:29 pm In this case, at least according to the realtor, you can buy a condo regardless of age but if you're under 55 you cannot occupy it. The only option is to hold it vacant or rent to someone who is 55+
I think this is a restriction of the community. Most retirement community will not let you live there unless you were over a certain age. For example, I see below 50 year olds visiting their retired parents, but I don't see them living with them even as a live in type of help.
Legally speaking to be classified as a 55 or older community under fair housing law only one occupant has to be 55 or older. (And in only 80% of the units) Requiring only one occupant to be over 55 aligns with common sense since it would be silly to, for example, tell a 55 year old husband and 53 year old wife they can't move in until the wife also turns 55. Now perhaps there are some communities that are stricter than the federal requirement, but I'd be surprised if most communities are as strict as you say.

I have a friend below 55 who is living with retired parents in a 55 or older community.
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jplee3
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by jplee3 »

junior wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:10 pm
gavinsiu wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:11 pm
jplee3 wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:29 pm In this case, at least according to the realtor, you can buy a condo regardless of age but if you're under 55 you cannot occupy it. The only option is to hold it vacant or rent to someone who is 55+
I think this is a restriction of the community. Most retirement community will not let you live there unless you were over a certain age. For example, I see below 50 year olds visiting their retired parents, but I don't see them living with them even as a live in type of help.
Legally speaking to be classified as a 55 or older community under fair housing law only one occupant has to be 55 or older. (And in only 80% of the units) Requiring only one occupant to be over 55 aligns with common sense since it would be silly to, for example, tell a 55 year old husband and 53 year old wife they can't move in until the wife also turns 55. Now perhaps there are some communities that are stricter than the federal requirement, but I'd be surprised if most communities are as strict as you say.

I have a friend below 55 who is living with retired parents in a 55 or older community.
This is what the realtor was saying as well - as long as one tenant/resident is 55 or older, then those who are younger can stay/live with them.
gavinsiu
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Re: Coop/stock co-op vs condo in a 55+ community

Post by gavinsiu »

I check on the Roosmoor page and it indicated that it only requried at least one resident to be over 55. I stand corrected.

Paul
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