UPDATE -- Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

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UPDATE -- Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by CoastLawyer2030 »

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Last edited by CoastLawyer2030 on Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Beachey
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by Beachey »

Financially, this likely makes sense as it appears you are headed to a one-income family.

One counter-argument is your children are still very young, still in they have to be in the same room as you phase. Very soon, they will begin to become more independent in that they can be in different rooms than you and the extra space in your present house will become more valued. Something to think through.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by quietseas »

If you don't like doing yard work, the proposed new house looks like it still has a lot of grass to maintain.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by livesoft »

I know a family who moves about every 2 years to make money. One parent is a part-time real estate agent and the other is a part-time general contractor. That's how they make their living with only part-time work: buy a house, live in it, renovate it, and sell. You are on your way! Good luck!
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by CoastLawyer2030 »

quietseas wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:45 am If you don't like doing yard work, the proposed new house looks like it still has a lot of grass to maintain.
I don't mind cutting grass, it's maintaining an unbelievable amount of mulch beds that kills me. House is 84 feet long and about 36 feet wide; mulch beds on all sides. Two other huge mulch beds in corner of front yard and one my mailbox. And there entire perimeter of the back is mulch bed. Just the thought of how much money or time I have to spend to either make them lower maintenance or pay someone else to take care of them makes me ill.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by dbr »

We benefited very much from having a smaller home that did not absorb so much capital and has an excellent location in a walkable family friendly neighborhood. We also invested some "sweat equity." I'm good at building maintenance and abhor yards and gardens. It does contribute a lot to LBYM in the early years.

I think our kids have also benefited from not being indoctrinated into needing to live in a McMansion.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by Colorado Guy »

Just a couple of comments.
CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:31 am My thought is we could dump most if not all of the equity from the old house into the new house and basically pay off the mortgage next year.
Personally, I found that paying off my mortgage was extremely liberating. I would put a high value on this option.
CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:31 am My contracting friend thinks we can get it up to shape (mostly paint and new flooring) for $15,000.

Short term moving/renovating with two young kids (3 and 1) would be hectic.
FYI only. A relative just purchased a replacement home due to downsizing, also needing paint, flooring, and kitchen countertops. They were able to acquire a contractor to do the necessary work in a 1 month period prior to moving (with agreement with the existing owner). So they moved into a home that was freshly updated with minimum hassles. On the plus side, they had a son-in-law who essentially managed the contractors and daily visits, as well as taking care of all the miscellaneous moving details.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by CaptainT »

Seems smart. I would do it. You have a to big house and are right sizing. Plus overall a smaller house is cheaper and easier to maintain.
What does your spouse think?
If you are both on board seems like a short term hassle for longer term gain
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by mnnice »

Directionally, I would take smaller house in more walkable area any day. We also have two offspring and downsized from 1600 square feet to 950. Now older child has moved on and we are toying with going even smaller.

The curb appeal of the cape is better imo too
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by CoastLawyer2030 »

dbr wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:54 am We benefited very much from having a smaller home that did not absorb so much capital and has an excellent location in a walkable family friendly neighborhood. We also invested some "sweat equity." I'm good at building maintenance and abhor yards and gardens. It does contribute a lot to LBYM in the early years.

I think our kids have also benefited from not being indoctrinated into needing to live in a McMansion.
Something I have certainly considered.

We live across the street from an 18,000 square foot house. We are one of the smaller houses on the street.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by quantAndHold »

More right-sized house in a more walkable area? I would do that in a second.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by CoastLawyer2030 »

quantAndHold wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:37 am More right-sized house in a more walkable area? I would do that in a second.
Officially going to look at 4:15 today. We will see.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by folkher0 »

CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:10 am
We live across the street from an 18,000 square foot house. We are one of the smaller houses on the street.
LOL does it have a moat and a drawbridge?

I wouldn't want to have to look at that everyday. I would consider moving just to get away from it
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by LilyFleur »

That Cape Cod is a lovely house. I like that it has a downstairs bedroom.

I raised my children in a 2100 sf house, and we enjoyed the space.

When I downsized, my contractor worked on my condo for a month before I moved in. I was there daily. It worked out great.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by delamer »

It appears that you’d be losing a 2-car garage.

If so, have you considered the implications of that? Street parking, even if availability isn’t a problem, is a pain.

We moved when our kids were 2 and 5. The bedrooms that were fine at that age were really small when they became teenagers. Fortunately, we had a full basement that they hung out in a lot.

We would have been unhappy if there hadn’t been a separate space (noise isolated) for the adults and kids for leisure time, but that is family-dependent.

Also consider closet/storage space in the new-to-you house.

I certainly understand the attraction of the cape cod though.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by shockwavesfan »

My family of 4 currently lives in a 1900 sq. Ft. Home. We have two active boys. I love the size of our home. We use every room every day. We did finish the basement which is about 600 sq. Ft which has been a huge help. It’s great because it gives them there own space.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by Greentree »

We have 1600 sq ft with two youngish children. We may have to move one day as they get in teen years, but I really appreciate the lower maintenance, ability to walk places with the kids, proximity to work and everything else. A bigger place would mean losing family time to get space that the kids aren't asking for.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by 8foot7 »

I have four kids, 13, 6, and 19mo twins. We have a 4,500 sq ft house. It is expensive to maintain. Yet I have never, not once, not even for a split second, wished we had less space.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

I've considered similar moves that are not only into smaller houses but in lower cost towns. I've done all the math and in the end, a big step down like you're planning saves me absolutely zero. Real estate agent fees plus getting less than you thought plus added cost for renovation (I challenge you to find anyone who has ever come in at budget with a renovation. Heck, I'd put money you can't find someone who hasn't been well over 25% over budget) plus moving costs. You won't have enough room with this smaller house.

Alternate for you (which I have done). Pay a landscaper to remove all that stupid mulch, put down landscape cloth and then put in stone. We did that and you know how often we've had to replace stone in 10 years? Never. You have almost no trees, so you won't have any real leaves to deal with (I live in the middle of an oak/maple/beech forest). So if you do, you know what you do when leave blowing in the stone beds? You laugh because the leaves are blown out and the stones stay there as opposed to now, when you blow out a bunch of mulch every time a wind comes by.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by lazynovice »

This is such a highly personal thing. Financially, it looks like the a good move (don’t forget to account for realtors fees and other transaction costs).

As far as space goes, 2,100 square feet is adequate for a family of four if it is laid out well. We had more than that and felt cramped in the teenage years but you are a long way from those years. And they go by pretty quickly and if you can tough them out, you’ll be financially better off.

Downsides:
If you have out of town guests frequently, then it gets tight.
Street parking as opposed to garage parking means wear and tear on the cars and a hassle getting small kids, groceries, etc in and out.
Does close walking to the town center mean people parking in front of your house meaning trash in your yard, traffic during events and having difficulty parking some of the time?

Both houses look nice!
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by CoastLawyer2030 »

folkher0 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:09 am
CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:10 am
We live across the street from an 18,000 square foot house. We are one of the smaller houses on the street.
LOL does it have a moat and a drawbridge?

I wouldn't want to have to look at that everyday. I would consider moving just to get away from it
Former owner of an NFL franchise built the house there. Back yard walks straight into a country club clubhouse. Eight car garage. It's insane.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by CoastLawyer2030 »

delamer wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:48 am It appears that you’d be losing a 2-car garage.

If so, have you considered the implications of that? Street parking, even if availability isn’t a problem, is a pain.

We moved when our kids were 2 and 5. The bedrooms that were fine at that age were really small when they became teenagers. Fortunately, we had a full basement that they hung out in a lot.

We would have been unhappy if there hadn’t been a separate space (noise isolated) for the adults and kids for leisure time, but that is family-dependent.

Also consider closet/storage space in the new-to-you house.

I certainly understand the attraction of the cape cod though.
Attached garage on the cape cod in the back!

I do agree about the closets. It's one thing I'm considering (building in new closets or armoires).
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by 8foot7 »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:15 pm I've considered similar moves that are not only into smaller houses but in lower cost towns. I've done all the math and in the end, a big step down like you're planning saves me absolutely zero. Real estate agent fees plus getting less than you thought plus added cost for renovation (I challenge you to find anyone who has ever come in at budget with a renovation. Heck, I'd put money you can't find someone who hasn't been well over 25% over budget) plus moving costs. You won't have enough room with this smaller house.

Alternate for you (which I have done). Pay a landscaper to remove all that stupid mulch, put down landscape cloth and then put in stone. We did that and you know how often we've had to replace stone in 10 years? Never. You have almost no trees, so you won't have any real leaves to deal with (I live in the middle of an oak/maple/beech forest). So if you do, you know what you do when leave blowing in the stone beds? You laugh because the leaves are blown out and the stones stay there as opposed to now, when you blow out a bunch of mulch every time a wind comes by.
Echo everything here. 6% on your current house + all of the money spent to get your new place "ready" (don't be fooled, you'll spend money even in a "move-in ready home") could pay to permanently remove a lot of the hassles you find with your current place.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by CoastLawyer2030 »

lazynovice wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:15 pm This is such a highly personal thing. Financially, it looks like the a good move (don’t forget to account for realtors fees and other transaction costs).

As far as space goes, 2,100 square feet is adequate for a family of four if it is laid out well. We had more than that and felt cramped in the teenage years but you are a long way from those years. And they go by pretty quickly and if you can tough them out, you’ll be financially better off.

Downsides:
If you have out of town guests frequently, then it gets tight.
Street parking as opposed to garage parking means wear and tear on the cars and a hassle getting small kids, groceries, etc in and out.
Does close walking to the town center mean people parking in front of your house meaning trash in your yard, traffic during events and having difficulty parking some of the time?

Both houses look nice!
We are talking a really small town here -- maybe 20,000 people. No parking or congestion issues whatsoever. But it would be cool to be next to city center -- couple parks, schools, church, etc. all in walking distance.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by CoastLawyer2030 »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:15 pm I've considered similar moves that are not only into smaller houses but in lower cost towns. I've done all the math and in the end, a big step down like you're planning saves me absolutely zero. Real estate agent fees plus getting less than you thought plus added cost for renovation (I challenge you to find anyone who has ever come in at budget with a renovation. Heck, I'd put money you can't find someone who hasn't been well over 25% over budget) plus moving costs. You won't have enough room with this smaller house.

Alternate for you (which I have done). Pay a landscaper to remove all that stupid mulch, put down landscape cloth and then put in stone. We did that and you know how often we've had to replace stone in 10 years? Never. You have almost no trees, so you won't have any real leaves to deal with (I live in the middle of an oak/maple/beech forest). So if you do, you know what you do when leave blowing in the stone beds? You laugh because the leaves are blown out and the stones stay there as opposed to now, when you blow out a bunch of mulch every time a wind comes by.
8foot7 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:18 pmEcho everything here. 6% on your current house + all of the money spent to get your new place "ready" (don't be fooled, you'll spend money even in a "move-in ready home") could pay to permanently remove a lot of the hassles you find with your current place.
I have considered your positions, but my mental accounting is as follows:

--We got current house for a great price ($285k)
--House is now worth $360k (I consider this "invisible" or "bubble" equity)
--Even after transaction costs, we net close to $110-115k
--Call it $30k for renovations (a very high estimate in my opinion; we are in a very LCOL area)

Then lower maintenance costs, lower property taxes, lower utility costs, lower everything...seems like we would come out quite ahead. It would certainly be a headache to move but that seems like a blip.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by stoptothink »

Greentree wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:57 pm We have 1600 sq ft with two youngish children. We may have to move one day as they get in teen years, but I really appreciate the lower maintenance, ability to walk places with the kids, proximity to work and everything else. A bigger place would mean losing family time to get space that the kids aren't asking for.
We're in 1480 sq. ft (3 bedrooms, 2.5 bath) with a family of 4 (kids 10 and 7). In the past we've had my in-laws live with us for extended periods; it wasn't uncomfortable for us, but I think they would have liked more space. We could easily do with less space, in fact my kids have chosen to share a bedroom so the 3rd bedroom is pretty much empty and my wife's ad hoc office. Completely agree that a bigger place would mean more time spent on maintenance and not together (outside as much as possible), in fact that is the primary reason we have stayed here. We are primarily responsible or the yard work at my parents' home (3500+ sq. ft. on 1/2+ acre) and both of us have zero interest in a large yard of our own.

We do expect my in-laws and even possibly my parents to be living with us at some point, so we expect to eventually get a bigger place but we keep pushing out the timeline.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by dbr »

lazynovice wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:15 pm This is such a highly personal thing. Financially, it looks like the a good move (don’t forget to account for realtors fees and other transaction costs).

As far as space goes, 2,100 square feet is adequate for a family of four if it is laid out well. We had more than that and felt cramped in the teenage years but you are a long way from those years. And they go by pretty quickly and if you can tough them out, you’ll be financially better off.

Downsides:
If you have out of town guests frequently, then it gets tight.
Street parking as opposed to garage parking means wear and tear on the cars and a hassle getting small kids, groceries, etc in and out.
Does close walking to the town center mean people parking in front of your house meaning trash in your yard, traffic during events and having difficulty parking some of the time?

Both houses look nice!
It could be one could build a detached garage and remodel the attached garage for more space.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by JoeRetire »

CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:31 am My wife and I (both 34) currently live in a 3,100 square foot house with 4BR and 3.5B. We have two kids (and we are officially and surgically done on that end). Realtor thinks we can sell current house for $360,000. There is a cape cod (2,100 square feet) that needs renovated but we think we can get it for $185,000. My contracting friend thinks we can get it up to shape (mostly paint and new flooring) for $15,000.

Worth moving?
(shrug)

Only you can judge the relative benefits of the two houses. If you conclude that you bought too much house and can no longer afford it, then it makes sense to move to something more affordable.
Otherwise, it's hard to tell.

Current House
--Average Maintenance: $10,000/year (averaging out these past 2.5 years)

Cape Cod
--Estimated Reno Cost: $20,000 (contractor's quick guess was $15,000, so I am adding $5,000)
How much cheaper do you realistically think the average maintenance will be?

What does your wife think about the proposed downsizing?
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by 8foot7 »

CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:22 pm
--We got current house for a great price ($285k)
--House is now worth $360k (I consider this "invisible" or "bubble" equity)
--Even after transaction costs, we net close to $110-115k
--Call it $30k for renovations (a very high estimate in my opinion; we are in a very LCOL area)


You paid 285 for a house you want to sell for 360, so 338.4 after realtor gets their piece minus 285 = 53,400 you're "netting." (I would not consider getting your mortgage principal paydown returned to you a "benefit;" it's more transferring home equity into cash.)
Then you're going to spend $30k out the door immediately on renovation best case, so $23,400 is your real net benefit in this transaction. Less movers, that big Target run you're bound to make, new somethings or something other, etc.

I think you significantly overestimate the savings in maintenance you will enjoy between your current 3,100 sq ft home and the 2,100 sq ft home you are considering.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by CoastLawyer2030 »

JoeRetire wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:45 pm How much cheaper do you realistically think the average maintenance will be?
I have data going back to 2018 regarding our cost of living. We used to live in a smaller place (1,100 square feet). I am guessing the proposed cape cod would be in between the previous ranch (1,100 square feet) and the current house (3,100 square feet).

Going by these numbers (and adjusting for inflation) I project $1,000-1,500 less in utility costs/year, $1,500 less in property taxes/year, and $3,000 less in maintenance costs/year.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by CoastLawyer2030 »

8foot7 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:50 pm
CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:22 pm
--We got current house for a great price ($285k)
--House is now worth $360k (I consider this "invisible" or "bubble" equity)
--Even after transaction costs, we net close to $110-115k
--Call it $30k for renovations (a very high estimate in my opinion; we are in a very LCOL area)
You paid 285 for a house you want to sell for 360, so 338.4 after realtor gets their piece minus 285 = 53,400 you're "netting." (I would not consider getting your mortgage principal paydown returned to you a "benefit;" it's more transferring home equity into cash.)
Then you're going to spend $30k out the door immediately on renovation best case, so $23,400 is your real net benefit in this transaction. Less movers, that big Target run you're bound to make, new somethings or something other, etc.

I think you significantly overestimate the savings in maintenance you will enjoy between your current 3,100 sq ft home and the 2,100 sq ft home you are considering.
I am not being flippant here, but this just accounting rationalization doesn't make sense to me. It seems to assume that we will always keep the current house even after the kids go to college.

My wife and I are definitely going to sell the place eventually. The realtor commissions are going to have to be paid at some point.

Moreover, if I was doing like-for-like in terms of price, I could see your point about the home equity. But going from having to pay a mortgage balance of $237,000 to a mortgage balance of about $140,000 (without putting any equity into it) is a huge, huge, huge financial change. I am speaking as someone that used to have such a mortgage and house.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by 8foot7 »

CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:24 pm
8foot7 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:50 pm
CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:22 pm
--We got current house for a great price ($285k)
--House is now worth $360k (I consider this "invisible" or "bubble" equity)
--Even after transaction costs, we net close to $110-115k
--Call it $30k for renovations (a very high estimate in my opinion; we are in a very LCOL area)
You paid 285 for a house you want to sell for 360, so 338.4 after realtor gets their piece minus 285 = 53,400 you're "netting." (I would not consider getting your mortgage principal paydown returned to you a "benefit;" it's more transferring home equity into cash.)
Then you're going to spend $30k out the door immediately on renovation best case, so $23,400 is your real net benefit in this transaction. Less movers, that big Target run you're bound to make, new somethings or something other, etc.

I think you significantly overestimate the savings in maintenance you will enjoy between your current 3,100 sq ft home and the 2,100 sq ft home you are considering.
I am not being flippant here, but this just accounting rationalization doesn't make sense to me. It seems to assume that we will always keep the current house even after the kids go to college.

My wife and I are definitely going to sell the place eventually. The realtor commissions are going to have to be paid at some point.

Moreover, if I was doing like-for-like in terms of price, I could see your point about the home equity. But going from having to pay a mortgage balance of $237,000 to a mortgage balance of about $140,000 (without putting any equity into it) is a huge, huge, huge financial change. I am speaking as someone that used to have such a mortgage and house.
The point is not to always keep that house; the point is you have painted a picture that moving into this house will absolve you of continued maintenance time and expense ("a huge time and financial cost to maintain" "huge time burden" "just so much more to maintain") and move you closer to financial independence ("dump most if not all of the equity from the old house into the new house and basically pay off the mortgage next year" "we would be financially independent sooner and this would relieve a lot of time/effort"). What I'm pointing out here is that considering your purchase price and admitted renovation cost, your one-time benefit here is $23,400 at best.

You should do whatever you feel is best for your family. I would point out with mortgage rates at close to 6% the difference in payments between
your rate now and your new purchase mortgage is, well, not "huge, huge, huge." (237k at 4% is 1131, 140k at 6% is 839. On your 150k income, is $292 really a huge, huge, huge change?)

Again, just trying to put some perspective here into this - it's no magic bullet to really anything. It may be an improvement for you. But it's best to have all of the information.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by Katietsu »

I do not think this is primarily a financial decision. I do not see a significant difference to your long term financial health either way. I think it is a lifestyle choice with a small tilt to the Cape Cod from the finances.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by Watty »

Katietsu wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:46 pm I do not think this is primarily a financial decision. I do not see a significant difference to your long term financial health either way. I think it is a lifestyle choice with a small tilt to the Cape Cod from the finances.
I agree.

I moved when I had one kid who was a teenager and we intertidally bought a house that was on the smaller size. When we were house hunting there were a lot of huge houses that did not cost much more but we decided we wanted a smaller house where we would be more together and spend more time closer to our kid. He still had a room for "his space" but it wasn't like he would spend time off in the home theater room away from us.

One thing I noticed was that it looks like your current house does not have a bedroom on the first floor but the other house does.

That could be very important, even though you have a long time until retirement I have known people that have been in car accidents and needed to be in a wheelchair for around six months. Their house was not at all wheelchair accessible so they had to stay in a rehabilitation center while their house was being modified so that they could get a wheelchair into their house. If you are having the house renovated then it would be good to consider doing simple things to make the house somewhat wheelchair accessible since that can sometimes be easy to do when other work is being done.

It is hard to tell from just one photo but it also looks like the Cape Cod could use some better landscaping to separate it from the other houses so you might want to also budget for that if it needs it but that would not be a show stopper. That tree next to the patio and chimney may also be too close to the house.

It is also possible that there might be some other better house close to town that you could buy, or you might be able to find a lot and build a house to your specifications.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by RudyS »

We owned a 2188 sq ft colonial type for 48 years and finally sold it when we moved to a CCRC a few years ago. We had 2 kids, 3 and 5, when we bought that house. Worked just fine for us, as evidenced by the long time we stayed in it. A suburban area, with a yard that was no real problem maintaining. The last 5 years we contracted out the lawn mowing, and snow blowing. All 4 bedrooms and 2 baths were on second floor, a half bath on the first floor. there was a UNfinished basement. We just never felt the need to make it a rec room, but could have. My point is that such a house could work very well for that size family.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by willthrill81 »

We've downsized considerably from our first home, which was 2,400 sq. ft. We now live in a 1,200 sq. ft., 3/2 home with our 7 year old daughter very happily. When we recently returned from an 8 week trip in our motorhome, we couldn't believe our huge our home seemed when we returned. The modern idea of many Americans that you need at least 1,000 sq. ft. for every person in your household is insane.

I'm not sure if the smaller home you're looking at is the best fit for your family, but I wholeheartedly endorse your desire to downsize.
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leeks
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by leeks »

"walkable to the local green, schools, church, grandparent's house, etc."

Walkability might even be worth paying more to get and you are proposing to get it for less money. Sounds great.

Think about your kids as tweens/teens being able to walk to/from school and sports practices and such. And walk over to see their grandparents. And hopefully there would be friends' houses in the neighborhood.

You will spend much less time being a chauffeur and they can have healthy independence long before getting drivers licenses. That seems like a huge quality of family life benefit to me.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by mkc »

CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:00 am
quantAndHold wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:37 am More right-sized house in a more walkable area? I would do that in a second.
Officially going to look at 4:15 today. We will see.
And.....?
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by CoastLawyer2030 »

mkc wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:48 am
CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:00 am
quantAndHold wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:37 am More right-sized house in a more walkable area? I would do that in a second.
Officially going to look at 4:15 today. We will see.
And.....?
Learned after I visited that there was already a cash offer on the place for more than I was willing to offer, so walked away.

I think we are still proceeding on this general idea, though.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by iluvzbeach »

I think it sounds like a terrific idea. Not all things are about money and (IMO) the cost savings isn’t huge, but I love the idea of walkability to the downtown area for your town. That is a significant quality of life improvement in my book, not to mention less house (and lawn) to clean & maintain. I’d pursue such a move in a heartbeat!
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by pianisto »

Bigger (older) kids = more space needed. Play dates expand. Entertainment needs grow. Do you want to host get togethers around dances? (ie proms?) I'd hold off on the decision to downsize just 1 or 2 more years before you decide to get a better feel of what your day-to-day family life will feel like after these first few younger years of toddlers.

If you can afford to live in your current house and maybe hire a little help to clean the bathrooms once/month (I also despise), I would stay for now. But it depends if you're in a hurry to be financially dependent, how much you like (or minimally dislike) your current job and how you want to raise your kids. I think there are plenty of counterpoints to my perspective. Some don't want their children exposed to seeing a cleaning service help with chores/etc., which is valid criticism. We hope we're not raising entitled children with our approach. Check back in 10 years and I'll let you know.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by solarcub »

Is the smaller house 2100 sq ft plus basement, or is there no basement? That would be a deal-breaker for me. We need a place for bikes, sleds, skis, and so on, not to mention the laundry and furnace. It doesn't have to be finished, but you need a place to put things when your kids get bigger. The alternative would be the garage, if you don't mind scraping snow off your car in the winter.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by sleepy06 »

8foot7 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:33 pm
CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:24 pm
8foot7 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:50 pm
CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:22 pm
--We got current house for a great price ($285k)
--House is now worth $360k (I consider this "invisible" or "bubble" equity)
--Even after transaction costs, we net close to $110-115k
--Call it $30k for renovations (a very high estimate in my opinion; we are in a very LCOL area)
You paid 285 for a house you want to sell for 360, so 338.4 after realtor gets their piece minus 285 = 53,400 you're "netting." (I would not consider getting your mortgage principal paydown returned to you a "benefit;" it's more transferring home equity into cash.)
Then you're going to spend $30k out the door immediately on renovation best case, so $23,400 is your real net benefit in this transaction. Less movers, that big Target run you're bound to make, new somethings or something other, etc.

I think you significantly overestimate the savings in maintenance you will enjoy between your current 3,100 sq ft home and the 2,100 sq ft home you are considering.
I am not being flippant here, but this just accounting rationalization doesn't make sense to me. It seems to assume that we will always keep the current house even after the kids go to college.

My wife and I are definitely going to sell the place eventually. The realtor commissions are going to have to be paid at some point.

Moreover, if I was doing like-for-like in terms of price, I could see your point about the home equity. But going from having to pay a mortgage balance of $237,000 to a mortgage balance of about $140,000 (without putting any equity into it) is a huge, huge, huge financial change. I am speaking as someone that used to have such a mortgage and house.
The point is not to always keep that house; the point is you have painted a picture that moving into this house will absolve you of continued maintenance time and expense ("a huge time and financial cost to maintain" "huge time burden" "just so much more to maintain") and move you closer to financial independence ("dump most if not all of the equity from the old house into the new house and basically pay off the mortgage next year" "we would be financially independent sooner and this would relieve a lot of time/effort"). What I'm pointing out here is that considering your purchase price and admitted renovation cost, your one-time benefit here is $23,400 at best.

You should do whatever you feel is best for your family. I would point out with mortgage rates at close to 6% the difference in payments between
your rate now and your new purchase mortgage is, well, not "huge, huge, huge." (237k at 4% is 1131, 140k at 6% is 839. On your 150k income, is $292 really a huge, huge, huge change?)

Again, just trying to put some perspective here into this - it's no magic bullet to really anything. It may be an improvement for you. But it's best to have all of the information.
+1. The numbers are in the grand scheme of things very close. This move is really about proximity. You will still have many of the same home chores just perhaps they will take less time to complete. You could use some of the proceeds from the transfer to enlist the help of a landscaper to make a convert the yard to a low-maintenance landscape style or you could hire out yard work. The $292/month above might cover a cleaning service once a month and a few mows/month all in.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by Arabesque »

The walkability score would make the decision for me.

I lived in a town where my kids had huge independence. They could walk or bike to a playground or friend's house, from about 8 years old on. They didn't need wheels for high school. I didn't find the 1500 sq. ft. house small during teen years because they were so busy with activities at the close-by school.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by Gaston »

Yes, it’s a very personal decision, but if it is financially advantageous, I’d vote to downsize.

You might know this, but when we Americans downsize, we still have far more space than most people do in other countries. We generally have far more house than we need, but we are brought up to believe we need it.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by dodecahedron »

Arabesque wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:37 am The walkability score would make the decision for me.

I lived in a town where my kids had huge independence. They could walk or bike to a playground or friend's house, from about 8 years old on. They didn't need wheels for high school. I didn't find the 1500 sq. ft. house small during teen years because they were so busy with activities at the close-by school.
+1 on the walkability. I loved growing up in a DC neighborhood where I could walk pretty much everywhere. So much independence (and a 10-cent discount student bus ticket on DC Transit gave me even more mobility.) Suburban parents are too often taxi-driving serfs weighed down by the need to drive their kids everywhere. By age 7 or 8, I walked to school, church, library, community center, grandparents' apartments, playgrounds, ran grocery errands for my mom picking up a few needed items. By the middle grades, I was allowed to take bus downtown with friends and/or siblings to go to zoo, movies, and museums.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by Lalamimi »

Get realtor to cut their commission, since you are buying and selling through them. Turn the 4 bedrooms upstairs into 2 larger rooms for the kids and a playroom that can grow with them. Enjoy!
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by homebuyer6426 »

As someone who is part of 2-person family in a 680 sq ft house with no basement/usable attic, it is quite livable, as long as you organize it correctly. And much easier to clean. We have a full size and twin size bed, large tv, dinner table that can seat 4, a couch, 3 wardrobes, a dresser, and 3 large shelving units. As far as grass goes, if you have a lot of flat grassland, buy a riding lawnmower, you won't regret it.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by j9j »

Both homes are beautiful and can easily make a strong case for either home. I wish there were homes like that in Texas. Personally I would not make the move as the friction/costs to move is too high. Plus lot of unknowns with a different house.
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Re: Thoughts on This Downsize Move (w/ Two Toddlers)?

Post by WienerG »

Op,

Apart from the financial and location benefits you perceive, what does the potentially new house do to your commute to the office? I don't think you mentioned it. Not sure whether this is a consideration but worth a couple of mins to think through.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

WienerG
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