Still asking the question. You would think with the countless "I am leaving Vanguard" threads over the past year or two someone has done an ACATS out.
ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
I did transfer out but I don't remember whether there was an alert.Lastrun wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:37 amStill asking the question. You would think with the countless "I am leaving Vanguard" threads over the past year or two someone has done an ACATS out.
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
I want to correct my statement after checking my records.
1) I received the following notice from IBKR.
Notice of Outbound Transfer Request
Dear Client,
We’ve received a request to transfer a portion of your account XXXX to another broker. If you initiated this request, there is nothing more for you to do as this transfer will be processed shortly. If you did not initiate this transfer request, please contact your local IBKR Client Service center immediately.
2) From VG for transfer-out, I received the trade confirmation.
3) From Fidelity for transfer-out, I did not receive any trade confirmation. But monthly statement shows the transaction.
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
It was about the partial ACATS position transfers of ETF shares from Vanguard to another broker.
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
[*uneasy hesitant laugh*] don't read the many threads out there where people have tried to answer the question about what fraud/theft mitigation Treasury Direct has if funds stolen from accountanon_investor wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:53 pmWe plan to have a 6 figure amount in I Bonds when we enter retirement. At least that will be safe from ACATS theft.Northern Flicker wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:49 pm That’s correct. Some organizations do a better job than others, but there unlikely is ever going to be a single linear ordering of best to worst.
viewtopic.php?t=225415
viewtopic.php?t=333754
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Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
Well TD is now safe from bad guys adding bank accounts, since it requires a mailed in paper form with signature guarantee to do so. If bad guys have access to your TD and bank accounts, then you may have larger problems.JoMoney wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:26 am[*uneasy hesitant laugh*] don't read the many threads out there where people have tried to answer the question about what fraud/theft mitigation Treasury Direct has if funds stolen from accountanon_investor wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:53 pmWe plan to have a 6 figure amount in I Bonds when we enter retirement. At least that will be safe from ACATS theft.Northern Flicker wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:49 pm That’s correct. Some organizations do a better job than others, but there unlikely is ever going to be a single linear ordering of best to worst.
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viewtopic.php?t=333754
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
Ok. Good news that it does not affect securities. I guess obvious , but untold.JoMoney wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:07 amFWIW, if you didn't want the checks, billpay, debit card, etc.. functionality on your Fidelity account you can not enable it and/or dis-enroll in it, and worth noting that you can't transfer or impact securities with those features either, only cash available for withdrawal in the account can be debited.Luckywon wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:44 amEnrolling and temporarily lifting must be done on phone and they will verify identity with a text code and asking identity questions.
Unlike Fidelity's Account Lockdown, where checks, billpay debits are not blocked, Etrade's No Funds Out blocks funds going out in any form, so I think it is better.
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
I pay my gas, electric, water, and insurance through my Fidelity CMA. These bills are automatically taken out of the CMA every month. Is that a direct debit? On the info screen for the Fidelity lockdown it says direct debit is not effected. Before I lockdown I want to make sure I understand what direct debit is, and that my bills will continue to be paid.
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The most important thing you should know about me is that I am not an expert.
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
I tried to lockdown my investment account, but not my CMA. When I pushed the button to send a security code to my phone I got the following message:
However, nothing is locked. I can log in and out of my account. I think something is broken on their web site.Your ability to continue this activity is temporarily locked
For your security, we've locked your account after too many unsuccessful attempts. To unlock it, please call the number below and an associate will assist you.
800-343-3548
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The most important thing you should know about me is that I am not an expert.
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
Thank you for posting this, I enabled MTL on all of my Fidelity accounts.yog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:05 pm Sorry - I even made a typo in my TLA (three letter acronym).
MTL = Money Transfer Lockdown
https://digital.fidelity.com/ftgw/digit ... kdown/info
CMA = Cash Management Account
https://www.fidelity.com/cash-managemen ... t/overview
"...the man who adapts himself to his slender means and makes himself wealthy on a little sum, is the truly rich man..." ~Seneca
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Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
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Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
I disagree. E*TRADE has the responsibility to know who they are dealing with, and a data breach does not remove that responsibility. They should adapt their processes or just accept that they are taking on a gigantic amount of liability.Marseille07 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:16 pm E*Trade is not really at fault because when someone's ID is completely compromised, there's little they can do to detect fraud; every information presented to them is presumably accurate and correct.
It is absolutely possible to verify someone's identity before facilitating a comically long sequence of fraudulent transactions to occur.
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
Luckywon replied earlier that you need to call them.jimcorreia wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:13 pmWhere is this setting available on E*Trade?
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Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
Yeah I corrected upthread and I didn't mean to say E*Trade carries no responsibility.whodidntante wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:18 pm I disagree. E*TRADE has the responsibility to know who they are dealing with, and a data breach does not remove that responsibility. They should adapt their processes or just accept that they are taking on a gigantic amount of liability.
It is absolutely possible to verify someone's identity before facilitating a comically long sequence of fraudulent transactions to occur.
That said, brokers won't take measures to fix this because the cost of doing so would be prohibitively expensive & not much return. It's not like people flock to E*Trade because they send a notary person when you open an account.
They'll just eat the cost whenever something like this happens.
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
Glad this helped.Elsebet wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:37 amThank you for posting this, I enabled MTL on all of my Fidelity accounts.yog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:05 pm Sorry - I even made a typo in my TLA (three letter acronym).
MTL = Money Transfer Lockdown
https://digital.fidelity.com/ftgw/digit ... kdown/info
CMA = Cash Management Account
https://www.fidelity.com/cash-managemen ... t/overview
Following my chat with holiday support yesterday, I have to speak with a different tier tomorrow to run through our options. Our CMA transfers cash/margin from our taxable brokerage account on demand, and this isn't currently supported with MTL.
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
Time to create brokerage accounts at all the major firms. Hackers can't create an account as me if I already have an account.
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
I think one can open another account at the same brokerage.
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Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
You have to designate a landing account.Marseille07 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:25 pmYeah but that won't result in ACATS as far as I understand. My understanding is that ACATS is between different brokerages.
Edit: sorry I did not make it clear enough. A black hat opens another account with a victim's ID in the receiving brokerage, where the victim happen to have its own account. Then the black hat ACATS from a donor brokerage of the victim to the account he opened at the receiving brokerage. Existing of the another (victim's) account at the receiving brokerage does not prevent ACATS initiated by the black hat.
Last edited by urban on Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
Are you sure that is possible, short of requiring a face-to-face to present ID documents?whodidntante wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:18 pmI disagree. E*TRADE has the responsibility to know who they are dealing with, and a data breach does not remove that responsibility. They should adapt their processes or just accept that they are taking on a gigantic amount of liability.Marseille07 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:16 pm E*Trade is not really at fault because when someone's ID is completely compromised, there's little they can do to detect fraud; every information presented to them is presumably accurate and correct.
It is absolutely possible to verify someone's identity before facilitating a comically long sequence of fraudulent transactions to occur.
There is corollary evidence that PII (Personal Identification Information) may have come from a tax processor. My tax processor has my Name, Address, DOB, SS#, DL#, Phone#, and E-mail as PII, plus it has my broker name, my account numbers, and 1099 entry details -- thus based on dividends and/or withdrawals, a relative size of the account can be deduced so the thief can tell if I'm a target worth chasing after.
With that PII, (Name, DOB, SS#, DL#) I would expect the online new account validation tests at both E*Trade and BofA to "pass". Even if the new account validation process requires uploaded of a DL and SS card, or even a utility bill, those can be easily manufactured by the thief using standard computer software and uploaded. I doubt that different Email or Phone# would be considered unusual. I regularly use 2 of each, and have more than those two. I would expect a different address to raise the risk detection level somewhat, but people do move and often set up new accounts associated with the move.
Since the PII on file at E*Trade largely matches the PII at Fidelity, the rules for processing ACATS says the transfer MUST happen within a very short period of time, like business 1 day.
We do not know how long the transferred money sat at E*Trade before it went to an external account. I would hope E*Trade requires days to weeks before allowing a new account to transfer a large $ amount out. For all we know, the fraudulent E*Trade account and it's banking links had been created weeks or months ahead of the actual ACATS transfer. These thieves how to skirt around detection checks.
People today expect instant online everything. This is the risk we take for that convenience.
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Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
I wonder if there is insurance against an ACATs loss scenario described in this thread? This loss is exactly what I want insurance for - a very large loss for a very low probability event. Given how infrequent it is (or appears to be anyway) insurance should be cheap, especially since the insurance company should be able to recover all the money from one of the brokerages.
Wrench
Wrench
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Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
Why do you think you are not covered under the broker's guarantee against unauthorized activity?Wrench wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:06 pm I wonder if there is insurance against an ACATs loss scenario described in this thread? This loss is exactly what I want insurance for - a very large loss for a very low probability event. Given how infrequent it is (or appears to be anyway) insurance should be cheap, especially since the insurance company should be able to recover all the money from one of the brokerages.
Wrench
I wonder if brokers take out insurance policies themselves to cover for say a hack other such events where they are liable under their terms.
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Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
What alerts had you set?leviathan wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:01 amI want to correct my statement after checking my records.
1) I received the following notice from IBKR.
Notice of Outbound Transfer Request
Dear Client,
We’ve received a request to transfer a portion of your account XXXX to another broker. If you initiated this request, there is nothing more for you to do as this transfer will be processed shortly. If you did not initiate this transfer request, please contact your local IBKR Client Service center immediately.
2) From VG for transfer-out, I received the trade confirmation.
3) From Fidelity for transfer-out, I did not receive any trade confirmation. But monthly statement shows the transaction.
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Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
My belief is that many financial institutions insure for cyberattack loss. I also think their system use policies will be aligned with requirements from the insurer when they insure against the loss. This makes it important to follow the policies. The institution is least likely to challenge your claim if they are covered, and will be motivated to push the loss through to you if they are not reimbursed, which seems like a risk if the insurer finds that the user did not follow system use policies.typical_investor wrote: I wonder if brokers take out insurance policies themselves to cover for say a hack other such events where they are liable under their terms.
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
I didn't set any alert. Just from default setting.Northern Flicker wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:26 pmWhat alerts had you set?leviathan wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:01 amI want to correct my statement after checking my records.
1) I received the following notice from IBKR.
Notice of Outbound Transfer Request
Dear Client,
We’ve received a request to transfer a portion of your account XXXX to another broker. If you initiated this request, there is nothing more for you to do as this transfer will be processed shortly. If you did not initiate this transfer request, please contact your local IBKR Client Service center immediately.
2) From VG for transfer-out, I received the trade confirmation.
3) From Fidelity for transfer-out, I did not receive any trade confirmation. But monthly statement shows the transaction.
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Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
Go to Profile and Account Settings -> Alerts -> Account activity and appointment alerts.
You can choose email or text alerts.
Regards,
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Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
I would hope that a brokerage would require that a user creating a second account for the same SSN would have to first log into their original account.urban wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:27 pmYou have to designate a landing account.Marseille07 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:25 pmYeah but that won't result in ACATS as far as I understand. My understanding is that ACATS is between different brokerages.
Edit: sorry I did not make it clear enough. A black hat opens another account with a victim's ID in the receiving brokerage, where the victim happen to have its own account. Then the black hat ACATS from a donor brokerage of the victim to the account he opened at the receiving brokerage. Existing of the another (victim's) account at the receiving brokerage does not prevent ACATS initiated by the black hat.
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
I guess it depends on the particular brokerage, but in VG accounts are linked to a user. For example, if in VG joint users have 2 joint accounts, and there is no concept of an original account. Every joint user logs in with his/her login/password, and can see both the same joint accounts.
Edit: I better rephrase it: in VG every user has a profile, and logs in into his/her profile. Every user can have more than one account.
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
Did you sell shares first or transfer them "in-kind"? I'm wondering if you got the trade confirmation because you sold the shares and not because the shares were pulled out via ACATS. It makes a difference.
Also, was this confirmation a text or email from an alert you had set up or was it something you noticed later when accessing your account?
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
I transferred them "in-kind. I received it from email. I didn't do any extra step to set up the alert. I think that it was enabled as a default setting when I opened the VG account.Duckie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:44 pmDid you sell shares first or transfer them "in-kind"? I'm wondering if you got the trade confirmation because you sold the shares and not because the shares were pulled out via ACATS. It makes a difference.
Also, was this confirmation a text or email from an alert you had set up or was it something you noticed later when accessing your account?
The confirmation text:
Confirmation of transactions other than trades and Sweep Program activity is displayed below.
.... Securities transferred ...
(Notes: 1)
Notes:
1. This is a confirmation that your assets have been transferred based upon instructions received directly from you or your financial institution.
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
This makes me feel somewhat relieved. If within 24 hours you learn that assets have been removed from your account you should be able to get them back. (Unless it's on the weekend when there is no way to contact Vanguard.)
Does this mean your "other" financial institution? The one that is pulling the money?Notes:
1. This is a confirmation that your assets have been transferred based upon instructions received directly from you or your financial institution.
leviathan, how long did it take from the time you initiated the transfer at the new brokerage until:
- the assets were removed from Vanguard?
- the assets were available for use at the new brokerage?
Last edited by Duckie on Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
Or if there is a holiday like today. So 3 days of being unable to reach Vanguard...Duckie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:30 pmThis makes me feel somewhat relieved. If within 24 hours you learn that assets have been removed from your account you should be able to get them back. (Unless it's on the weekend when there is no way to contact Vanguard.)
Does this mean your "other" financial institution? The one that is pulling the money?Notes:
1. This is a confirmation that your assets have been transferred based upon instructions received directly from you or your financial institution.
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
I received an email from VG on 5/26 about confirmation of transaction at 5/25Duckie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:30 pmThis makes me feel somewhat relieved. If within 24 hours you learn that assets have been removed from your account you should be able to get them back. (Unless it's on the weekend when there is no way to contact Vanguard.)
Does this mean your "other" financial institution? The one that is pulling the money?Notes:
1. This is a confirmation that your assets have been transferred based upon instructions received directly from you or your financial institution.
leviathan, how long did it take from the time you initiated the transfer at the new brokerage until:
- the assets were removed from Vanguard?
- the assets were available for use at the new brokerage?
Request Date (at IBKR) 2022-05-20
Date Available for Trading 2022-05-25
Date Available for Withdrawal 2022-06-08
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
Thank you.
So IBKR made it available to liquidate before Vanguard notified you it was already transferred out, but it was another two weeks before the money could be removed from the IBKR account. That means there should have been time to stop any withdrawal if necessary. But that two-week buffer might be brokerage dependent.
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Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
Basically, do something other than rely on information entered on a computer.RetiredAL wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:29 pmAre you sure that is possible, short of requiring a face-to-face to present ID documents?whodidntante wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:18 pmI disagree. E*TRADE has the responsibility to know who they are dealing with, and a data breach does not remove that responsibility. They should adapt their processes or just accept that they are taking on a gigantic amount of liability.Marseille07 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:16 pm E*Trade is not really at fault because when someone's ID is completely compromised, there's little they can do to detect fraud; every information presented to them is presumably accurate and correct.
It is absolutely possible to verify someone's identity before facilitating a comically long sequence of fraudulent transactions to occur.
Whatever address they tell you they live at, confirm it against ID and against public records. If all match, send a piece of mail to that address with a challenge response card. Make sure the account is restricted until the correct response is received. Fun fact: TreasuryDirect used to do something like this.
Here's another easy way if they claim to have a fancy white-collar job. Call their employer using information found online. Ask to speak to them. Ask, "hey this is whodidntante calling from E*TRADE. We reckon you opened an account recently. Does that sound about right?"
Or, if the person lives within 15 miles of an E*TRADE branch, ask them to drop in for verification and offer $50 if they do so.
Or ask them to call in to verify identity. If the person can't answer correctly, seems to need a long time to "remember" facts, or you hear typing like they are searching for the answer, leave the account restricted.
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Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
No one would do these though. I mean sure the brokerage may be more secure, but requiring such measures would inconvenience the customers.whodidntante wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:47 pm Basically, do something other than rely on information entered on a computer.
Whatever address they tell you they live at, confirm it against ID and against public records. If all match, send a piece of mail to that address with a challenge response card. Make sure the account is restricted until the correct response is received. Fun fact: TreasuryDirect used to do something like this.
Here's another easy way if they claim to have a fancy white-collar job. Call their employer using information found online. Ask to speak to them. Ask, "hey this is whodidntante calling from E*TRADE. We reckon you opened an account recently. Does that sound about right?"
Or, if the person lives within 15 miles of an E*TRADE branch, ask them to drop in for verification and offer $50 if they do so.
Or ask them to call in to verify identity. If the person can't answer correctly, seems to need a long time to "remember" facts, or you hear typing like they are searching for the answer, leave the account restricted.
Besides, how many accounts are fraudulent, anyway? 0.001%?
This is one of those situations in which you can point fingers at E*Trade but they won't do anything. They'll just eat the cost of ACATS going south because that's actually cheaper than implementing measures to prevent them.
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Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
Or make people do Zoom calls like ID.me?whodidntante wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:47 pmBasically, do something other than rely on information entered on a computer.RetiredAL wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:29 pmAre you sure that is possible, short of requiring a face-to-face to present ID documents?whodidntante wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:18 pmI disagree. E*TRADE has the responsibility to know who they are dealing with, and a data breach does not remove that responsibility. They should adapt their processes or just accept that they are taking on a gigantic amount of liability.Marseille07 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:16 pm E*Trade is not really at fault because when someone's ID is completely compromised, there's little they can do to detect fraud; every information presented to them is presumably accurate and correct.
It is absolutely possible to verify someone's identity before facilitating a comically long sequence of fraudulent transactions to occur.
Whatever address they tell you they live at, confirm it against ID and against public records. If all match, send a piece of mail to that address with a challenge response card. Make sure the account is restricted until the correct response is received. Fun fact: TreasuryDirect used to do something like this.
Here's another easy way if they claim to have a fancy white-collar job. Call their employer using information found online. Ask to speak to them. Ask, "hey this is whodidntante calling from E*TRADE. We reckon you opened an account recently. Does that sound about right?"
Or, if the person lives within 15 miles of an E*TRADE branch, ask them to drop in for verification and offer $50 if they do so.
Or ask them to call in to verify identity. If the person can't answer correctly, seems to need a long time to "remember" facts, or you hear typing like they are searching for the answer, leave the account restricted.
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Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
You are correct, most likely. But let's not pretend that verifying identity is impossible.Marseille07 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:51 pmNo one would do these though. I mean sure the brokerage may be more secure, but requiring such measures would inconvenience the customers.whodidntante wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:47 pm Basically, do something other than rely on information entered on a computer.
Whatever address they tell you they live at, confirm it against ID and against public records. If all match, send a piece of mail to that address with a challenge response card. Make sure the account is restricted until the correct response is received. Fun fact: TreasuryDirect used to do something like this.
Here's another easy way if they claim to have a fancy white-collar job. Call their employer using information found online. Ask to speak to them. Ask, "hey this is whodidntante calling from E*TRADE. We reckon you opened an account recently. Does that sound about right?"
Or, if the person lives within 15 miles of an E*TRADE branch, ask them to drop in for verification and offer $50 if they do so.
Or ask them to call in to verify identity. If the person can't answer correctly, seems to need a long time to "remember" facts, or you hear typing like they are searching for the answer, leave the account restricted.
Besides, how many accounts are fraudulent, anyway? 0.001%?
This is one of those situations in which you can point fingers at E*Trade but they won't do anything. They'll just eat the cost of ACATS going south because that's actually cheaper than implementing measures to prevent them.
But a counterpoint is that lots of people had TreasuryDirect accounts during the days that they required challenge response cards.
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Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
What role would insurance for the consumer play here?Wrench wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:06 pm I wonder if there is insurance against an ACATs loss scenario described in this thread? This loss is exactly what I want insurance for - a very large loss for a very low probability event. Given how infrequent it is (or appears to be anyway) insurance should be cheap, especially since the insurance company should be able to recover all the money from one of the brokerages.
Wrench
To me this sounds like a bank error and I would assume it would be between Fidelity and E-Trade. It sounds like it's a theft from Fidelity, the consumer may have an "incorrect balance" at the moment, but I would think Fidelity should be required to fix that
My posts are for entertainment purposes only.
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Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
The institution would carry the insurance, not the consumer.Yarlonkol12 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:38 pmWhat role would insurance for the consumer play here?Wrench wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:06 pm I wonder if there is insurance against an ACATs loss scenario described in this thread? This loss is exactly what I want insurance for - a very large loss for a very low probability event. Given how infrequent it is (or appears to be anyway) insurance should be cheap, especially since the insurance company should be able to recover all the money from one of the brokerages.
Wrench
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
So, if someone tried to set up a new account with the same SSN as an existing user, Vanguard should flag that and tell them to log in first to their existing profile.urban wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:24 pmI guess it depends on the particular brokerage, but in VG accounts are linked to a user. For example, if in VG joint users have 2 joint accounts, and there is no concept of an original account. Every joint user logs in with his/her login/password, and can see both the same joint accounts.
Edit: I better rephrase it: in VG every user has a profile, and logs in into his/her profile. Every user can have more than one account.
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
This is the procedure at Etrade. (At least it happened to me last time.)rkhusky wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:03 pmSo, if someone tried to set up a new account with the same SSN as an existing user, Vanguard should flag that and tell them to log in first to their existing profile.urban wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:24 pmI guess it depends on the particular brokerage, but in VG accounts are linked to a user. For example, if in VG joint users have 2 joint accounts, and there is no concept of an original account. Every joint user logs in with his/her login/password, and can see both the same joint accounts.
Edit: I better rephrase it: in VG every user has a profile, and logs in into his/her profile. Every user can have more than one account.
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
Yes. It said I already have a profile/account (don't remember the word) and asked me to logged on.urban wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:03 amSo, ETrade did not allow you to establish a new account at ETrade with the same SSN without you being logged in into your already existing account/profile, right?
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
Thank you.student wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:06 amYes. It said I already have a profile/account (don't remember the word) and asked me to logged on.urban wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:03 amSo, ETrade did not allow you to establish a new account at ETrade with the same SSN without you being logged in into your already existing account/profile, right?
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
I understand the institutions could and likely do hold insurance for this situation. But that does not preclude the consumer also holding insurance (presuming it was offered). It could cover unreimbursed losses and/or losses the institution refuses to cover for whatever reason. Insurance companies are good at dealing with loss claims, brokerages not so much. Also, having an insurance company on your side probably would make the recovery process less painful because presumably their legal staff would handle the negotiations. If such a product were offered, would it be worth it? Or is it even necessary? Depends on its cost, the details of the coverage, and each person's assessment of the risk and/or hassle of recovering from a potential loss from ACATs or other fraud at the brokerage. It is a moot point though, since such products seem not to exist, likely because the occurrence of this type of fraud is rare enough that demand for such a product would not make it worth it to the companies to offer.Northern Flicker wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:22 pmThe institution would carry the insurance, not the consumer.Yarlonkol12 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:38 pmWhat role would insurance for the consumer play here?Wrench wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:06 pm I wonder if there is insurance against an ACATs loss scenario described in this thread? This loss is exactly what I want insurance for - a very large loss for a very low probability event. Given how infrequent it is (or appears to be anyway) insurance should be cheap, especially since the insurance company should be able to recover all the money from one of the brokerages.
Wrench
Wrench
Re: ACATS Transfer thefts from Fidelity
This info about lockdown was posted on Redit today -- https://old.reddit.com/user/FidelityWeston
See bolded item.
[–]FidelityWeston 1 point 5 hours ago
I can definitely help with your question, u/aweigo, and we appreciate your engagement on our page.
Money Transfer Lockdown, an additional security measure Fidelity provides to its customers, may affect or disallow certain types of transactions. In order to transfer between two of your Fidelity accounts (In your example brokerage and CMA) when Money Transfer Lockdown is enabled, you will need to temporarily disable the feature prior to making the transaction. Once you have successfully made the transfer, you can enable the lockdown again by logging in into your Fidelity.com account anytime and visit "Security Center" from your "Profile" page.
Protected Transactions:
• Outbound money transfers
• Transfers between Fidelity accounts
• Transfer of shares and assets to other institutions
• Individual withdrawals (previously scheduled EFT transfers from an account might still be processed)
Unaffected Transactions:
• Deposits or transfers into a Fidelity account
• Checkwriting and direct debits
• Debit/ATM transactions
• Trading
• Scheduled Required Minimum Distribution (RMD) or Personal Automatic Withdrawal plan
• BillPay
Learn more about Money Transfer Lockdown, what it does, and how to enable/disable it on Fidelity.com
Link added by RetireAl -- https://digital.fidelity.com/ftgw/digit ... kdown/info
See bolded item.
[–]FidelityWeston 1 point 5 hours ago
I can definitely help with your question, u/aweigo, and we appreciate your engagement on our page.
Money Transfer Lockdown, an additional security measure Fidelity provides to its customers, may affect or disallow certain types of transactions. In order to transfer between two of your Fidelity accounts (In your example brokerage and CMA) when Money Transfer Lockdown is enabled, you will need to temporarily disable the feature prior to making the transaction. Once you have successfully made the transfer, you can enable the lockdown again by logging in into your Fidelity.com account anytime and visit "Security Center" from your "Profile" page.
Protected Transactions:
• Outbound money transfers
• Transfers between Fidelity accounts
• Transfer of shares and assets to other institutions
• Individual withdrawals (previously scheduled EFT transfers from an account might still be processed)
Unaffected Transactions:
• Deposits or transfers into a Fidelity account
• Checkwriting and direct debits
• Debit/ATM transactions
• Trading
• Scheduled Required Minimum Distribution (RMD) or Personal Automatic Withdrawal plan
• BillPay
Learn more about Money Transfer Lockdown, what it does, and how to enable/disable it on Fidelity.com
Link added by RetireAl -- https://digital.fidelity.com/ftgw/digit ... kdown/info