Can you front-date signatures?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
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Caduceus
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Can you front-date signatures?

Post by Caduceus »

On financial documents, is it alright to front-date a signature? For example, if I don't want an application of some kind, or a document of some kind, to come into force or become applicable until a month later, can I just go ahead and send out the documents, sign it, but then date the signature to a month later?

Or is this some type of strict requirement, where when I sign it and date it, it has to be the exact same day?

I'm thinking this wouldn't be a good idea with things like wills and such, but sometimes for regular financial forms/applications, I'd rather just mail them or upload them and get them out of the way early so I don't have to think about them.
Mr. Rumples
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Re: Can you front-date signatures?

Post by Mr. Rumples »

A contract is enforceable from the date it is signed in VA where I live; it's not the same as the effective date. Dating it helps place the document in chronological order for both the parties in case of an issue. States vary in how they address dates. For example, signing contracts in VA is addressed in several different sections of the Code depending on what the contract is for and if it is electronic or not. (Post dating checks is also addressed separately in the Code.)

If the effective date is a month from the date of the signature, its best for the contract to state the effective date.
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Raycpact
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Re: Can you front-date signatures?

Post by Raycpact »

It could be a problem if you die before that date.
valleyrock
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Re: Can you front-date signatures?

Post by valleyrock »

And a notary won't hear of this.

On principle, this sounds like a very bad idea because it's just not straightforward, apart from legal implications and the complications. The date next to a signature is the date of signing. Period.

To use the legal term: fugggetabboutit.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Can you front-date signatures?

Post by JoeRetire »

Caduceus wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:40 am On financial documents, is it alright to front-date a signature?
No, this is not all right.
I'm thinking this wouldn't be a good idea with things like wills and such, but sometimes for regular financial forms/applications, I'd rather just mail them or upload them and get them out of the way early so I don't have to think about them.
Bad idea.

Some contracts indicate a date that it goes into effect. Other than that, it will go into effect when it is signed and received.
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Statistical
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Re: Can you front-date signatures?

Post by Statistical »

JoeRetire wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:58 am
Caduceus wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:40 am On financial documents, is it alright to front-date a signature?
No, this is not all right.
I'm thinking this wouldn't be a good idea with things like wills and such, but sometimes for regular financial forms/applications, I'd rather just mail them or upload them and get them out of the way early so I don't have to think about them.
Bad idea.

Some contracts indicate a date that it goes into effect. Other than that, it will go into effect when it is signed and received.
This. If you want a delayed enacting contract the contract should specify that. The signature line should still have the date it was signed.

To the OP your post-dating may not provide any legal protection. Depending on your state the incorrect date (obviously incorrect because it is in the future) could just be thrown out and the contract put into effect on the date of signing.

It is "feel good" protection which really isn't protecting you at all. Most likely it won't matter either way in which case it isn't protecting you. If it does matter it may be thrown out which means it isn't protecting you.
7eight9
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Re: Can you front-date signatures?

Post by 7eight9 »

In the case of negotiable instruments you can.

§ 3-113. DATE OF INSTRUMENT.

(a) An instrument may be antedated or postdated. The date stated determines the time of payment if the instrument is payable at a fixed period after date. Except as provided in Section 4-401(c), an instrument payable on demand is not payable before the date of the instrument.

(b) If an instrument is undated, its date is the date of its issue or, in the case of an unissued instrument, the date it first comes into possession of a holder.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/3/3-113

INSTRUMENT definition --- https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/3/3-104#Instrument
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Kenkat
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Re: Can you front-date signatures?

Post by Kenkat »

I would also add that there is a very good chance that those forms you send in get processed when received and not delayed based on the date put next to the signature. The date is expected to be the date the document was signed; it is not intended to be a “hold until” date and likely will not be honored as such.
increment
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Re: Can you front-date signatures?

Post by increment »

7eight9 wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:49 am In the case of negotiable instruments you can.

§ 3-113. DATE OF INSTRUMENT.

(a) An instrument may be antedated or postdated. The date stated determines the time of payment if the instrument is payable at a fixed period after date. Except as provided in Section 4-401(c), an instrument payable on demand is not payable before the date of the instrument.
On the other hand, your bank probably notes in its terms that they may ignore that date. For example, Schwab Bank says, "If you write a Postdated Check, we may pay it and charge it to your account even if it is presented for payment before its date. Or, at our sole discretion, we may return the check for being postdated."
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celia
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Re: Can you front-date signatures?

Post by celia »

Kenkat wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:52 am I would also add that there is a very good chance that those forms you send in get processed when received and not delayed based on the date put next to the signature. The date is expected to be the date the document was signed; it is not intended to be a “hold until” date and likely will not be honored as such.
+1
Brokerage houses are required to process your paperwork as of the date it was received before market close, regardless of the date you signed it. If they should, for some reason, receive a million forms in the postal mail one day and can’t process them all that day, they will make the transaction look the same as if they had processed it on the date it was received. All mail is date and time stamped on receipt, so they know what date to use for your forms. (I learned this from a Vanguard phone rep.)

When I send birthday or Christmas checks to our kids, I often use the date of the event on the check even though it may take several days to reach them. They may not deposit their Christmas check until the following year, but the Christmas date shows it was intended as a gift in the year it was signed, just in case there is a question with the gift tax exclusion.
bh1
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Re: Can you front-date signatures?

Post by bh1 »

increment wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:29 am
7eight9 wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:49 am In the case of negotiable instruments you can.

§ 3-113. DATE OF INSTRUMENT.

(a) An instrument may be antedated or postdated. The date stated determines the time of payment if the instrument is payable at a fixed period after date. Except as provided in Section 4-401(c), an instrument payable on demand is not payable before the date of the instrument.
On the other hand, your bank probably notes in its terms that they may ignore that date. For example, Schwab Bank says, "If you write a Postdated Check, we may pay it and charge it to your account even if it is presented for payment before its date. Or, at our sole discretion, we may return the check for being postdated."
If Schwab-customer Bob writes Pam a post-dated check, Pam deposits that check early at her bank, and Schwab hands over the funds, is Pam or her bank liable? If Pam goes directly to Schwab, is Pam liable?

Inquiring minds want to know.
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