How do you know when it's time to change jobs

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finance_learner
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How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by finance_learner »

Hi,

I wanted to query the really smart people in this forum. I have a job that I used to really enjoy. I've been here nearly six years. It's my first full time job. Now the balance of work has shifted and it is no longer enjoyable for me. I could stay as long as I want to. How do I think about the benefits and drawbacks of changing jobs? Thanks!
Normchad
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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by Normchad »

finance_learner wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:25 pm Hi,

I wanted to query the really smart people in this forum. I have a job that I used to really enjoy. I've been here nearly six years. It's my first full time job. Now the balance of work has shifted and it is no longer enjoyable for me. I could stay as long as I want to. How do I think about the benefits and drawbacks of changing jobs? Thanks!
Six years is a decent amount of time. There would be nothing wrong with changing jobs now if you found one that you liked better.

After six years, you might have learned everything there is to learn at your job. You might not really be able to get any better or grow. If that’s the case, you should lean towards making a change.

Most people have zero self awareness, and near zero idea of what they’re actually worth in the market. You should go out and do some interviews, and get some offers. Then you’ll understand those things. And you really can’t make a decision without knowing those things.

Beforehand, think about your current situation. What things are awesome, and you want those in a new job? Is anything terrible, that you need to fix in a new gig? Do you want to be 100% remote? Do you want to be in an office?

The money is super important. But at a certain level, the “other things” become more of a focus. The work itself. The people, etc.

One line I like is this. “Don’t be a jerk. Don’t work with jerks. And don’t work for a jerk”.

All the best!
meadowrue
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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by meadowrue »

OP, I’m in a similar boat (except I’ve been at my current job 16 years!) Culture has changed, limited opportunities for advancement, but it’s pretty stable and I mostly enjoy what I do. The decision to move on is hard. You are younger than me, and 6 years at one company is a great run so if you’re unhappy I think you should absolutely explore other options. Biggest risk I see is a potential recession where layoffs might become more commonplace but living in fear of the “what ifs” is pretty pointless IMO. If you’re good at what you do, you’ll thrive wherever you go. Good luck!
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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by jebmke »

My typical job assignment lasted 3-5 years. In a couple of cases they were quite short -- less than two years. I only changed employers once in my career tho; most of the job changes were internal.

I liked to do new things and learn new things so when I had been settled in for a while and felt I had contributed enough I had a sense of when it was time to move to something new. Sometimes I got the call early though -- opportunities that were too good to pass up.
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Beensabu
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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by Beensabu »

(1) If you used to enjoy your job and no longer enjoy your job, maybe find another job. You've shown yourself that you are capable of enjoying a job. Not everyone is. But you are. So find that again. Once you know it's possible, why would you settle for less?

(2) This is your first full-time job. Six years is a good run. If you stay too much longer, it will be harder to find a new job. Potential employers will see that you have only worked one place, for a long time. They will think maybe your skills, knowledge, and/or mindset are geared towards that specific place and are not adaptable.

(3) Even if you do not end up choosing another job, try to find another job. The more interviews you do, the more you will get used to thinking of how your skills and knowledge can be applied in other environments. It will give you a better chance of getting a job you really want, if you come across one.
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HomerJ
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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by HomerJ »

finance_learner wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:25 pm Hi,

I wanted to query the really smart people in this forum. I have a job that I used to really enjoy. I've been here nearly six years. It's my first full time job. Now the balance of work has shifted and it is no longer enjoyable for me. I could stay as long as I want to. How do I think about the benefits and drawbacks of changing jobs? Thanks!
I changed jobs every 5 years like clockwork.

Didn't realize I was doing it until my 4th job (20 years into my career).

5-6 years is a pretty good time to start looking. You've mastered the job at this point. It's time for a new challenge. Best part is you can take your time looking for something that you like.

It's also the best way to get a huge raise (Like 20%-50%). Staying at the same company for 20-30 years makes it hard to make the big bucks (unless you really move high up the management ladder)
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
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HomerJ
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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by HomerJ »

Beensabu wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:17 pm (2) This is your first full-time job. Six years is a good run. If you stay too much longer, it will be harder to find a new job. Potential employers will see that you have only worked one place, for a long time. They will think maybe your skills, knowledge, and/or mindset are geared towards that specific place and are not adaptable.
This. Changing jobs is very useful when you are young. You should learn how different companies do things. You don't want to be stuck with just one company's processes for 20 years straight. Learn from some new people who might be smarter than you.

Changing jobs is very healthy.
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
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finance_learner
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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by finance_learner »

Thank you all for your kind insights.

I agree with interviewing and have started the process. The money is likely to be substantially better, as I would be transitioning from non-profit to industry. It's the other factors that I really need to consider:

1. I say my job is less enjoyable to me now in that I am a mission driven person and the job does not give me the ability to fulfill my mission as much any more. The caveat is that I've thought alot about it and I can't see another job that really would allow me to do better in this regard either.
2. It's always been a fairly demanding job where I am checking emails, thinking about work solutions on nights and weekends. I hardly take vacations not b/c I'm not allowed to but b/c there's always more to do and I really wanted to move the mission forward.

I feel that given the key source of satisfaction is gone (mission alignment), then my thinking is that I should at least settle for a job that pays better and that I am not so attached to. Does that make sense? It sounds rather defeatist to me?
invest4
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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by invest4 »

finance_learner wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:47 am Thank you all for your kind insights.

I agree with interviewing and have started the process. The money is likely to be substantially better, as I would be transitioning from non-profit to industry. It's the other factors that I really need to consider:

1. I say my job is less enjoyable to me now in that I am a mission driven person and the job does not give me the ability to fulfill my mission as much any more. The caveat is that I've thought alot about it and I can't see another job that really would allow me to do better in this regard either.
2. It's always been a fairly demanding job where I am checking emails, thinking about work solutions on nights and weekends. I hardly take vacations not b/c I'm not allowed to but b/c there's always more to do and I really wanted to move the mission forward.

I feel that given the key source of satisfaction is gone (mission alignment), then my thinking is that I should at least settle for a job that pays better and that I am not so attached to. Does that make sense? It sounds rather defeatist to me?
Good for you starting the process. What constitutes job satisfaction will vary from person to person including what factors are most important to them. Of course, the job may not check all the boxes and can also change over time. To that extent, I think one must find the joy in their job where they can. Similarly, as you continue to move along and get closer to retirement, your needs may also change. For example, the benefits the company offers for potential retirees may be more prominent and whether or not you can take advantage (ex: may need to work a certain number of years, etc.).

Best wishes.
bling
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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by bling »

it broadly falls under 3 categories:

1) when you no longer enjoy the work and/or coworkers/manager.
2) when you want career advancement, but none is available.
3) you are severely underpaid
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retired@50
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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by retired@50 »

finance_learner wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:47 am ... I would be transitioning from non-profit to industry.

I feel that given the key source of satisfaction is gone (mission alignment), then my thinking is that I should at least settle for a job that pays better and that I am not so attached to. Does that make sense? It sounds rather defeatist to me?
What's the mission?

I never worked in non-profit, but in the private sector the mission is typically related to profit. Is that your mission?

Keep in mind that in the real world, not every person that wants to be a ballerina gets to be a ballerina. So, they settle on a different job.

If this mission is important enough, then maybe consider self-employment if you can make the difference you are seeking, while still earning a living.

Regards,
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former_academic80
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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by former_academic80 »

For me, it's been when I get to the point where I feel like I have done everything there is to do in a job. Once I start to think "I got this" and it's not clear what the next step would be in terms of growth in the position, I start feeling antsy.

Of course, I am still early enough in my wealth accumulation that money still matters a great deal too.
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HomerJ
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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by HomerJ »

former_academic80 wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:38 am For me, it's been when I get to the point where I feel like I have done everything there is to do in a job. Once I start to think "I got this" and it's not clear what the next step would be in terms of growth in the position, I start feeling antsy.
That's what seemed to happen to me every 5 years..

Come in, fix a bunch of problems, re-architect things to run smoothly, enjoy smooth operations for a year or two, start to get bored.

(Or a new VP and management team comes in and makes things miserable - that happens too)
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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by Yarlonkol12 »

If your job is in software or IT, it's very important that your evaluating the job market for your skillset on a regular basis, at least once a year

The market rates for this type of work has dramatically outpaced the upper limit of raises that most companies will provide
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Jags4186
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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by Jags4186 »

5-6 years seems to be the itch point.

Personally, I’ve been with 2 companies.

1st company I stayed at for 9 years, was promoted at year 2, year 4, year 6, year 7 got an itch to leave, got a offer for 25% more than I was making and my current company matched for me to stay. That felt good for about a year and then the itch came back and I ultimately left for my current role.

Current company I just passed my 5 year mark. Was promoted after year 3, was told I am getting promoted again but that was 4 months ago and now nothing has happened. It seems that although the company is taking my efforts to advance seriously, there’s an awful lot of talking and not a lot of doing. Money talks BS walks. The itch is back—I have started looking. Bonus payouts are in 2 months (and not anticipated to be anything spectacular) so if nothing happens re: promotion by then I will go full court press to get out.
homebuyer6426
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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by homebuyer6426 »

For me, it was when I was very unhappy with my daily life, and had "almost quit" about 10 times previous. It was hard to walk away from because it was a good salary and I wasn't sure if I would find a similar replacement.

When I said I was quitting, they gave me a $6,000 raise and permanent work from home status. I quit a couple months later after trying that for a while. I just wasn't happy with the position, or with being 3,000 miles from family.

The job I ended up getting was a pay cut to the tune of $17,000. But, other factors balanced this out:
* Cost of living $5,000 lower per year, including lower taxes
* More generous vacation time
* Housing market with prices literally 10% of the one I left for the same thing
* Went from nearly constant traffic to relatively clear roads, reducing frustration immensely

Eventually I came to have no regrets about the decision.
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tvubpwcisla
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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by tvubpwcisla »

Oh, you'll know!

At the end of the day, just make sure you are happy. Stress and unhappiness are not worth being somewhere that's got you down.
heywhoathere
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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by heywhoathere »

My criteria in no particular order (as a tech worker):
  • What's the project pipeline look like for the next 12+ months? Is there anything interesting or are most of the projects boring?
  • Am I getting significant increases in comp every 1-2 years? Internal raises will never be comparable to what you get by switching jobs, but they need to be high enough to make staying worthwhile.
  • Any vesting that's worth sticking around for?
  • Is there opportunity to continue learning new and useful things?
  • Are there certain skills that I don't use in the job and are stagnating?
Should note that my main motivation for working is (legally) making as much money as possible as quickly as possible. So the criteria are all aligned with that in one way or another.

I typically tend to interview a few times a year just to see what's out there and where my skillset might be lacking comapred to what employers want. I'm currently averaging around 3 years of tenure per job in my career.
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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

Boredom was a key indicator for me.

Bored employees can do stupid things that can lead to dismissal, and/or divorce. Especially those who are in the management ranks.

Fortunately MegaCorp had plenty of very interesting jobs I was able to move into. Never needed to leave the company, just the position.

I think opportunities like I had could incent more employees to stay with a company. I sometimes went up in level, other times I made lateral moves. Seems a good thing for employees and the company, especially when the positions were fairly compensated.

At any rate, my boredom was kept to a minimum.

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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by Caliscotsman »

A job is not jail.
You can leave when you want.
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Beensabu
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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by Beensabu »

finance_learner wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:47 am I feel that given the key source of satisfaction is gone (mission alignment), then my thinking is that I should at least settle for a job that pays better and that I am not so attached to. Does that make sense? It sounds rather defeatist to me?
Aha! I know this one. I cited "values misalignment". They're making decisions you don't agree with and you can't do anything about it, can you? But you care. Oh, you care. That's a recipe for misery.

Nothing defeatist about getting out of that situation.
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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by deikel »

retired@50 wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:10 am
finance_learner wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:47 am ... I would be transitioning from non-profit to industry.

I feel that given the key source of satisfaction is gone (mission alignment), then my thinking is that I should at least settle for a job that pays better and that I am not so attached to. Does that make sense? It sounds rather defeatist to me?
What's the mission?

I never worked in non-profit, but in the private sector the mission is typically related to profit. Is that your mission?

Keep in mind that in the real world, not every person that wants to be a ballerina gets to be a ballerina. So, they settle on a different job.

If this mission is important enough, then maybe consider self-employment if you can make the difference you are seeking, while still earning a living.

Regards,
I think there is also the value statements or ethics the company follows (or not). Sure, we are here to make money, that is the primary mission, but there are different ways of making it and some do align , some don't.

I can tolerate stress and lots of work, I can tolerate dumb management decisions and chaos, I can tolerate doing things that I find idiotic to do - but I do draw the line when I am asked to do unethical BS, I don't want to be associated with

There is always a different job, there is only one health and one reputation - I do not mess up either if I can help it.
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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by retired@50 »

deikel wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:44 pm I think there is also the value statements or ethics the company follows (or not). Sure, we are here to make money, that is the primary mission, but there are different ways of making it and some do align , some don't.

there is only ... one reputation
Your statement struck me as it relates to Ernst & Young (in the news lately). Some (maybe many) companies say one thing, and do another.

EY Website "About Us": https://www.ey.com/en_us/about-us#our-values

EY values in practice: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ernst ... ar-AAYY1qk

I think it's likely you'd have to work someplace for a while to really discover the true culture.

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
gavinsiu
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Re: How do you know when it's time to change jobs

Post by gavinsiu »

Here are my general list.

1. You can't keep doing your job. You don't have to like your job, just that you can stand it for the money you get. Every job always contain elements that you don't like but will take the some bad with the good. If however, you feel that you can't keep doing your job, it's time to look for another.

2. Your management do not have your back. Nothing is perfect, but if I am constantly trying to document stuff to justify myself and to protect against being backstab, I rather be working elsewhere.

3. You job is leading you to a career deadend. There are jobs that are stepping stones. Their purpose is to get you to the next job. This does not mean you should not do them well, but that you should move to the next rung after you have proven yourself. In addition, just because you do that one job well does not mean you should do that job forever, you should look at some trends to see if you need to do something else to stay current. Don't be the person who get laid off because your position is no longer needed.

4. You are not valued. This is similar to #2. No one is irreplacable, but you want to be the person who the boss said if I get rid of xxxx, then it would be costly to the project/company.

5. Worklife balance. You are working to live, but not living to work.

Not on this list is being challenged, but that's just person. I like a job that is challenging, this sort of ties into #3. However, not everyone wants to be challenge at work. Perhaps work is just a place where you make money so you can have cool hobbies and buy stuff for the family.
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