Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

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Small Law Survivor
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Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by Small Law Survivor »

We live in a suburb west of Boston. We are on a well. We've lived here for 29 years.

I had our water tested, and there were no red flags except for Radon, which tested at 17,900 pCi/L. The Massachusetts D.E.P. guideline is 10,000, so we are 80% above it.

My questions/concerns:

First, I assume we have been drinking and showering in this water the entire time we've lived in this house. My bad for not testing this earlier. How much trouble are my wife and I in? We can't do anything about the past, but I'd like to know how significant the health consequences might be. Call it morbid curiosity.

Second, what should we do? The easy answer is to get a Radon removal system. I quickly got a quote for this - $6,000

I'm wondering if this is actually a "nothing burger". Or, if we should get a second test to confirm this? Or, if we should just buy the removal system.

Advice much appreciated.

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prudent
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by prudent »

Please do not discuss health issues, medical advice is not permitted by forum policy. Discussing the radon mitigation is fine.
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by suemarkp »

I've never heard of radon in the water, only in the air. But it seems this is an issue and logical too that underground radon can dissolve into water which then comes in via your well and aeration of that water in showers, faucets, or cooking can release it.

Have you had your house air tested for radon? If its in the well it could be in the house too even without it being in the water since this implies there is buried radium under the ground. This may be hard to test if the radon from the water is contaminating your house air. Perhaps do an air test after you've been on vacation for a week and didn't run any water?

Water filtration can be expensive to install and maintain (filters get clogged and need to be replaced, some could be expensive to dispose of if they have trapped radium in them). If you use your outside hose bibs often, I'd try to replumb to get those off of filtered water. But everything else (sinks, showers, even the washing machine) can out gas radon into your house air.

How much of an issue this is I don't know. Standards keep getting tighter. No one wants toxins in their air or water, but there is always going to be some level of them. Whether it is parts per million or parts per billion, what level is "safe" is debatable and there is a cost-benefit calculation to be made.
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by RetiredAL »

If me, I'd do a 2nd test before any actions. Radon is a dissolved gas in water, thus if confirmed in your well water, it's present under your property, so it would be prudent to test inside the house too.

Your country may have radon maps which could help in the decisions. Radon is very common is some parts of the country.
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by scophreak »

I concur with prior posters that the air in the house should also be tested given the result of your water testing. Personally, I would probably install a radon mitigation system (if needed) for the air as well as one for the water. I imagine this is something that will certainly come up if/when you intend to sell the property as well, though that may not be on your radar as you say you've been there for the past 29 years.
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by ZMonet »

Did you talk to your neighbors about this? I would think you are all pumping water from the same aquafer so any radon results they may have might be informative. Obviously, it is good for you to run all of the information down as you don't want to risk an increased chance of lung cancer, etc.
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by galawdawg »

I also recommend having your home tested as well. If that doesn't show any problem and all you need is something for the well water, have you looked into whole house granular activated carbon filtration systems? Those are available at Home Depot for between $1,000 and $3,000 depending on the GPM rating and whether you also want it to soften the water and add other filtration media. Installation by a licensed plumber is very straightforward and shouldn't be too costly.

Many folks here in the south who are on well water have such systems.
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by Abe »

This may answer some of your questions.

https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinki ... radon.html
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by Church Lady »

While you are working out what to do, I suggest you look into a water service such as Culligan (buying water for cooking and drinking), or else a water filter. Get a filter for the shower, too. It's probably not enough, but it's a start while you explore options.

I was going to suggest you get a Berkey, and found this article:
It suggests mitigating radon in your water will automatically reduce levels of radon in the air of your home. In light of that, you might want to pursue water mitigation before you pursue air mitigation.

They mention aeration as an effective alternative to filtration.
IN SOME OF THEIR REPORTS, the USA EPA has stated that aeration is one of the best technology available today that can remove radon in the water.

The home aeration units can agitate the water physically and allow the dissolved radon gas to be vented and collected outside.

With the current innovation in home aeration units, it can remove about 99.9% of radon on it.
This is commendable as Berkey (the blog author) sells radon filters. They are open about the possibility of radon filters themselves becoming radioactive. It's an interesting article.

Any chance of getting on town water?
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by Kookaburra »

All of the suggestions about “filtering” your water are incorrect. Radon is a gas (in this case, dissolved in water). Filtration does not remove dissolved gases. You would need some sort of an aeration system, either a tray aerator or diffused bubble system, to help strip it out of solution. And I would recommend it be a whole-house system (not a point-of-use device), since off-gassing can occur during showering and other non-consumptive uses.
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by cmr79 »

Radon in ground water used in a home contributes around 1 pCi/L to home air radon levels. The EPA (differently from Massachusetts) recommends considering radon remediation at water levels of 4000 pCi/L, which would contribute approximately 0.4 pCi/L to home air levels (EPA recommends considering remediation with air levels over 2.0 pCi/L; water at the recommended limit would contribute 40% of this already). Because areas with high ground water radon levels likely have high levels in soil seepage into homes, ground water radon is generally only a few percent of the total radon exposure in the home (the rest being air contamination from radon seepage through the foundation), and remediation of radon seepage through the foundation is far more likely to be of actionable difference to lowering radon related lung cancer risk.

At OP's quite high water radon levels, the effect of ground water on radon in the home alone would probably raise the radon air levels enough to warrant remediation and should probably be dealt with. I would be highly concerned that the radon levels in the air from seepage through the foundation of OP's home, however, would be a much more significant exposure if not already remediated. There wouldn't be a clear reason to wait to install a water remediation system until the house's air radon levels are checked and (presumably) confirmed to be elevated, but if there was only room in the budget to fix one right away, I would strongly consider a radon exhaust system for seepage first.
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by galawdawg »

Kookaburra wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:13 pm All of the suggestions about “filtering” your water are incorrect. Radon is a gas (in this case, dissolved in water). Filtration does not remove dissolved gases. You would need some sort of an aeration system, either a tray aerator or diffused bubble system, to help strip it out of solution. And I would recommend it be a whole-house system (not a point-of-use device), since off-gassing can occur during showering and other non-consumptive uses.
The EPA disagrees with you. They report that GAC filtration is effective in removing radon from well water.
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by Small Law Survivor »

galawdawg wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:27 pm
Kookaburra wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:13 pm All of the suggestions about “filtering” your water are incorrect. Radon is a gas (in this case, dissolved in water). Filtration does not remove dissolved gases. You would need some sort of an aeration system, either a tray aerator or diffused bubble system, to help strip it out of solution. And I would recommend it be a whole-house system (not a point-of-use device), since off-gassing can occur during showering and other non-consumptive uses.
The EPA disagrees with you. They report that GAC filtration is effective in removing radon from well water.
Yes, I saw this EPA site as well, which is why I thought filtration was effective. Esp. since aeration is much more expensive, I believe
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by cockersx3 »

ZMonet wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:04 pm Did you talk to your neighbors about this? I would think you are all pumping water from the same aquafer so any radon results they may have might be informative. Obviously, it is good for you to run all of the information down as you don't want to risk an increased chance of lung cancer, etc.
The sample collection method for an aqueous radon test is very specific, in that one must collect the water sample directly from the tap into a container **without exposing the sample to ambient air**. This is because nearly all the radon in the water diffuses off quickly upon contact with air.

I lived in a neighborhood where this was an issue. Our town ordinances required a radon test for new houses using well water to get a cert of occupancy. However, the town building inspectors didn't realize the importance of the sample collection method, so they never noticed that the samples from our neighborhood were routinely collected by the builder and not the water testing company. And of course, the builder samples were just open-catch into a cup, so none of my neighbors ever failed their initial water tests due to radon since all the radon flashed off when the sample was collected.

But my new house inspection occurred right after we got a new building inspector - and she knew what she was doing. She saw the improper water collection method on the paperwork and ordered my builder to get the sample collected the right way. The builder pitched a fit about it at first, but it turns out she was right - water came up off-the-charts on radon. We ended up getting the radon mitigation system installed by my builder at his cost.

We told our new neighbors about this after we moved in, but only one of them went back and had their water tested. And of course, it came up hot. He ended up putting the system in at his own cost, which was in line with what the OP mentioned.

To answer the OP - yes, I would absolutely get that system installed. Even if you don't think it's a big deal, the people you eventually sell the house to probably will. Better to head off that issue now, and also keep your family safe. Be thankful you got the test done the right way and that you know there's an issue, as I suspect most of your neighbors have the same issue but don't know it yet. :shock:

The system is pretty simple, really. It's just a big box downstream of your well bladder tank into which well water is dispensed under level control, with a blower that aerates the water and strips the radon out to a vent to the roof of your house. The system also has a pump that dispenses the water from the box to the users in your house. There was a few valves in it to allow you to bypass the system if needed (ie if there was a maintenance issue that rendered the system inoperable) but we kept it running all the time. It is kinda loud when the pump cuts on however.

One thing to watch out for is thermal expansion downstream of the radon system. Houses on city water will typically have a small expansion tank installed near their hot water heater to absorb the thermal expansion from the heater, but normally well water users don't have this since the well bladder tank can also absorb that expansion. But once you put the radon system in, your bladder tank will be physically separated from your hot water tank and it therefore won't be able to handle the thermal expansion anymore. We noticed this after we put our system in, when we'd see a little water near our hot water PSV every morning after showers. Installing the <$100 expansion tank that city water users typically have addressed this for us.
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by cmr79 »

GAC filters can remove 90-95% of radon when replaced at appropriate intervals. Aeration systems can remove 99.9%. because ground water is such a small proportion of household radon, the efficacy difference isn't meaningful to most people's radon exposure risk.
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by CenTexan »

Just make sure your initial radon test wasn't done by the company selling the filter system - or by any retail/selling company, for that matter.

I requested and received a free radon test from our state health department. When it came, it was obviously provided by a private company - who later wanted to sell me remediation.
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by Saving$ »

Many posters above are knowledgeable about the water issue.

Regardless of what you do about the water, you now know there is a possibility of radon in both your water and possibly in your air. Go buy yourself an air quality radon monitor so you can get an idea of the levels in the air on a continuous basis. A radon monitor is MUCH better than a single one week or one month test. Radon levels in my home fluctuate seasonally. Extremely low in the summer, somewhat higher in the cold winter months. This may be related to how my HVAC systems function, but the bottom line is how much (relative) radon are people in my house exposed to.

This one is useful: https://www.airthings.com/view-radon
If you don't need an on device readout and don't mind using your phone to look at the levels, this one measures more variables: https://www.airthings.com/wave-plus
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by deikel »

Kookaburra wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:13 pm All of the suggestions about “filtering” your water are incorrect. Radon is a gas (in this case, dissolved in water). Filtration does not remove dissolved gases. You would need some sort of an aeration system, either a tray aerator or diffused bubble system, to help strip it out of solution. And I would recommend it be a whole-house system (not a point-of-use device), since off-gassing can occur during showering and other non-consumptive uses.
Anything you can quote to support that ?

Radon does attach to activated charcoal just fine and you can run water through charcoal filters (filtration) and it sticks pretty good.....that's how the simple radon measurement traps actually work.

Adding filtration system is much easier then airation system
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by deikel »

https://extension.psu.edu/reducing-rado ... king-water

Is a good informative site

"The National Research Council's report, Risk Assessment of Radon in Drinking Water, estimates that radon in drinking water causes about 160 cancer deaths per year due to inhalation and 20 stomach cancer deaths per year due to ingestion."

"Estimates are that indoor air concentrations increase by approximately 1 pCi/L for every 10,000 pCi/L in water. For example, a water well containing 2,000 pCi/L of radon would be expected to contribute 0.2 pCi/L to the indoor air radon concentration. Based on the potential for cancer, the EPA suggests that indoor air should not exceed 4 picocuries per liter (pCi/L).

EPA and various states have recommended drinking water standards for radon in water ranging from 300 to 10,000 pCi/L but no standard currently exists. One study of radon in over 900 Pennsylvania water wells found that 78% exceeded 300 pCi/L, 52% exceeded 1,000 pCi/L and 10% exceeded 5,000 pCi/L."

If It would be me, I would install a filter and be done with it, your levels are quite high in relative terms.

Testing your air in the basement for Radon would also be a good choice, since that is a different animal.

But your overall actual risk from the Radon in water seems very low compared to other causes of cancer - nothing to panic about.
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by Small Law Survivor »

deikel wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:01 pm https://extension.psu.edu/reducing-rado ... king-water

Is a good informative site

"The National Research Council's report, Risk Assessment of Radon in Drinking Water, estimates that radon in drinking water causes about 160 cancer deaths per year due to inhalation and 20 stomach cancer deaths per year due to ingestion."

"Estimates are that indoor air concentrations increase by approximately 1 pCi/L for every 10,000 pCi/L in water. For example, a water well containing 2,000 pCi/L of radon would be expected to contribute 0.2 pCi/L to the indoor air radon concentration. Based on the potential for cancer, the EPA suggests that indoor air should not exceed 4 picocuries per liter (pCi/L).

EPA and various states have recommended drinking water standards for radon in water ranging from 300 to 10,000 pCi/L but no standard currently exists. One study of radon in over 900 Pennsylvania water wells found that 78% exceeded 300 pCi/L, 52% exceeded 1,000 pCi/L and 10% exceeded 5,000 pCi/L."

If It would be me, I would install a filter and be done with it, your levels are quite high in relative terms.

Testing your air in the basement for Radon would also be a good choice, since that is a different animal.

But your overall actual risk from the Radon in water seems very low compared to other causes of cancer - nothing to panic about.
Thank you deikel.
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by Small Law Survivor »

This is a follow-up to my post back in June.

First, I've tested the air a few times - no Radon.

Second, I had three different labs test the water over the last five months. Here are the results:

June 2022 - ETR - 17,900
July 2022 - Nashoba - 6,730
Oct 2022 - Envirotech - 2,567

I'm not sure what to make of this. Toss the first test and do nothing to remediate the water?

Thanks for any observations.

Small Law Survivor
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by cmr79 »

It is pretty normal for radon levels in both air and water to vary significantly based on environmental factors. Testing water radon levels are also very sensitive to how the test is performed, which can introduce variation. Testing-related issues almost always yield falsely low radon levels.

Filtering the water you drink is a pretty easy and cheap way to provide some peace of mind, given that this is obviously of some concern to you. Whether it's worth it to you to install a whole-house system so that you aren't exposed to transiently high radon levels from shower off-gasing, for example, is up to you. Radon health risks accumulate over time, generally on a decades timescale, and are multiplicative with other cancer risk factors.
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by RudyS »

galawdawg wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:27 pm
Kookaburra wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:13 pm All of the suggestions about “filtering” your water are incorrect. Radon is a gas (in this case, dissolved in water). Filtration does not remove dissolved gases. You would need some sort of an aeration system, either a tray aerator or diffused bubble system, to help strip it out of solution. And I would recommend it be a whole-house system (not a point-of-use device), since off-gassing can occur during showering and other non-consumptive uses.
The EPA disagrees with you. They report that GAC filtration is effective in removing radon from well water.
This may just be a semantic argument. Passing the water through the "filtration" system may indeed remove the radon. But the process for the removal would technically be adsorption, not filtration.
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by Kookaburra »

galawdawg wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:27 pm
Kookaburra wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:13 pm All of the suggestions about “filtering” your water are incorrect. Radon is a gas (in this case, dissolved in water). Filtration does not remove dissolved gases. You would need some sort of an aeration system, either a tray aerator or diffused bubble system, to help strip it out of solution. And I would recommend it be a whole-house system (not a point-of-use device), since off-gassing can occur during showering and other non-consumptive uses.
The EPA disagrees with you. They report that GAC filtration is effective in removing radon from well water.
With all due respect, you are mistaken. The EPA does not consider GAC a Best Available Technology for Radon removal from water due to buildup of radioactivity on the carbon.

https://aarst.org/proceedings/2001/2001 ... ystems.pdf
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by cockersx3 »

Small Law Survivor wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 9:50 am This is a follow-up to my post back in June.

First, I've tested the air a few times - no Radon.

Second, I had three different labs test the water over the last five months. Here are the results:

June 2022 - ETR - 17,900
July 2022 - Nashoba - 6,730
Oct 2022 - Envirotech - 2,567

I'm not sure what to make of this. Toss the first test and do nothing to remediate the water?

Thanks for any observations.

Small Law Survivor
Yeah, that's weird. Perhaps the last sample was taken using an incorrect method? If they just take an "open catch" sample (ie open faucet, then run water into cup and close lid) it will artificially lower the radon level in the water due to offgassing. May be worth it to see how they collected the sample and whether precautions were taken to minimize air exposure.
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by rkhusky »

If the testing is not too expensive, I would do a couple more tests to see if the first or last test was anomalous.
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by bh1 »

Small Law Survivor wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 9:50 am This is a follow-up to my post back in June.

First, I've tested the air a few times - no Radon.

Second, I had three different labs test the water over the last five months. Here are the results:

June 2022 - ETR - 17,900
July 2022 - Nashoba - 6,730
Oct 2022 - Envirotech - 2,567

I'm not sure what to make of this. Toss the first test and do nothing to remediate the water?

Thanks for any observations.

Small Law Survivor
As this is Bogleheads, we should be applying our financial mojo here. I suggest the technical analysts starting fitting this with various functions to look for a pattern. Others can take means and standard deviations to try to get at the underlying statistics. The rest can suggest the appropriate AA for showering and drinking with some fraction of bottled water such that your personal exposure remains below the EPA limit.
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by galawdawg »

Kookaburra wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:41 pm
galawdawg wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:27 pm
Kookaburra wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:13 pm All of the suggestions about “filtering” your water are incorrect. Radon is a gas (in this case, dissolved in water). Filtration does not remove dissolved gases. You would need some sort of an aeration system, either a tray aerator or diffused bubble system, to help strip it out of solution. And I would recommend it be a whole-house system (not a point-of-use device), since off-gassing can occur during showering and other non-consumptive uses.
The EPA disagrees with you. They report that GAC filtration is effective in removing radon from well water.
With all due respect, you are mistaken. The EPA does not consider GAC a Best Available Technology for Radon removal from water due to buildup of radioactivity on the carbon.

https://aarst.org/proceedings/2001/2001 ... ystems.pdf
The EPA reports that GAC is an effective method of removing radon from well water. There are a number of reports from the EPA stating such, as well as scientific studies on their website reviewing GAC as a method of removing radon from drinking water. For example, see EPA Project Summary "Radon Removal by POE GAC Systems" by Lowery et. al. (linked below) where they conclude that "it is clear that GAC is effective for removing radon from drinking water".

Perhaps you might read my post more carefully...nowhere did I say that the EPA considers GAC a "Best Available Technology"...simply that they consider GAC an effective method of removing radon from drinking water. Feel free to disagree, but the EPA findings on this are publicly available on their website, epa.gov.

https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files ... uction.pdf

https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyNET.exe/300 ... e=x&ZyPURL
dalbright
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by dalbright »

Are you handy? I would just slap on some 20" big blue housings and some filters and not bother thinking about it again. Since you are well it would surely improve the taste at the same time. If you're not a fan of soldering (assuming copper but could be other piping) there are a variety of sharkbite style fittings to make connections too.
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Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by Kookaburra »

galawdawg wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 5:51 am
Kookaburra wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:41 pm
galawdawg wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:27 pm
Kookaburra wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:13 pm All of the suggestions about “filtering” your water are incorrect. Radon is a gas (in this case, dissolved in water). Filtration does not remove dissolved gases. You would need some sort of an aeration system, either a tray aerator or diffused bubble system, to help strip it out of solution. And I would recommend it be a whole-house system (not a point-of-use device), since off-gassing can occur during showering and other non-consumptive uses.
The EPA disagrees with you. They report that GAC filtration is effective in removing radon from well water.
With all due respect, you are mistaken. The EPA does not consider GAC a Best Available Technology for Radon removal from water due to buildup of radioactivity on the carbon.

https://aarst.org/proceedings/2001/2001 ... ystems.pdf
The EPA reports that GAC is an effective method of removing radon from well water. There are a number of reports from the EPA stating such, as well as scientific studies on their website reviewing GAC as a method of removing radon from drinking water. For example, see EPA Project Summary "Radon Removal by POE GAC Systems" by Lowery et. al. (linked below) where they conclude that "it is clear that GAC is effective for removing radon from drinking water".

Perhaps you might read my post more carefully...nowhere did I say that the EPA considers GAC a "Best Available Technology"...simply that they consider GAC an effective method of removing radon from drinking water. Feel free to disagree, but the EPA findings on this are publicly available on their website, epa.gov.

https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files ... uction.pdf

https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyNET.exe/300 ... e=x&ZyPURL
Perhaps you didn’t read the publication on my post in which the EPA discourages the use of GAC since it concentrates the radionuclides in the carbon, which then becomes a localized emitter. As in most things treatment, the residuals tail wags the dog.
adamthesmythe
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Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:47 pm

Re: Results of Radon Water Test (not good) - Advice Please

Post by adamthesmythe »

Small Law Survivor wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 9:50 am This is a follow-up to my post back in June.

First, I've tested the air a few times - no Radon.

Second, I had three different labs test the water over the last five months. Here are the results:

June 2022 - ETR - 17,900
July 2022 - Nashoba - 6,730
Oct 2022 - Envirotech - 2,567

I'm not sure what to make of this. Toss the first test and do nothing to remediate the water?

Thanks for any observations.

Small Law Survivor
Since I am not OP and have no dog in this fight I can regard this as a most amusing set of data.

Had I obtained these measurements in the lab, I would feel fairly confident that the quantity being measured is positive.

Note the 3 or 4 digits of "precision" yet an enormous variation between measurements.

I would advise a student to collect samples at exactly the same time and in exactly the same way and have them evaluated by the three different labs.

I would not rule out a seasonal variation. But then, the data isn't good enough to rule out demons.
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