Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

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water2357
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Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by water2357 »

I noticed there was a thread about the professions of high income earners and there were some financial professionals listed.

There seem to be a number of people with a variety of financial knowledge on Bogleheads. Just wondering if there are a lot of people with financial backgrounds that frequent Bogleheads.

Does anyone know?

Any bankers, brokers, lawyers(finance, estate, elder, real estate, etc), insurance professionals(life, health, casualty, etc.), actuaries(pension, health, life, etc.), government professionals(IRS, Social Security, Medicare, etc.), certified financial planners, CPAs, etc.?

Or do a lot of people have knowledge more through personal experience, e.g. navigating investing, retirement, education planning, real estate purchases/sales, settling estates, helping relatives navigate long term care, Social Security, Medicare, etc.?
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by livesoft »

My observation from many years of reading this forum is that the people here represent all occupations, but especially those with incomes high enough to allow for them to invest in IRAs. So you posed 3 questions. The answers to all 3 questions are: Yes. And the answer to your title question is also Yes.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by JD09 »

I've been in an IB for most of my career and I'm amazed by the lack of personal finance knowledge in most of my colleagues. One can't assume just because someone is working in a bank, they have lot of knowledge about personal finance.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by Valuethinker »

JD09 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 4:40 am I've been in an IB for most of my career and I'm amazed by the lack of personal finance knowledge in most of my colleagues. One can't assume just because someone is working in a bank, they have lot of knowledge about personal finance.
In my experience, most bankers are too busy to even balance their chequebooks.

There was that Goldman sachs banker, who let his PA look after his banking, and she was charged with stealing millions of pounds. He had not noticed.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by Blue456 »

JD09 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 4:40 am I've been in an IB for most of my career and I'm amazed by the lack of personal finance knowledge in most of my colleagues. One can't assume just because someone is working in a bank, they have lot of knowledge about personal finance.
My brother in law is up there in Marrill Lynch and keeps trying to get me set up with high fee advisor...
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by beyou »

The financial services industry is huge. So many are employed that I am sure there are many boglehead users in the industry. That said, I agree with above statement that many in the industry do not have a good broad understanding of all the topics discussed here. Many people in such a large industry are specialists, can answer with more detail than you want/need on some narrow topics, but they are in need of help on most other topics.

Personally I worked for fund managers most of the last 3-4 decades, with some shorter stints in brokers, investment banks. I worked in IT, and learned all the details about how most every asset class works, how a fund is run, but that in no way taught me any more than anyone else about IRAs, 401k, HSA, savings bonds, life insurance, tax planning and many other topics (which I learned outside work, here and elsewhere). I have seen incorrect posts which cover topics where I have detailed knowledge that are just plain wrong and/or misleading, from someone claiming to have worked in financial services. They usually had some area of expertise but opined on areas outside their job related expertise in areas they have minimal exposure (but think they know because “they are in the industry”). Not naming names, my point is always do some independent research about any opinions you get from random strangers on the internet, even if they claim to work in the industry.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by celia »

I know of someone who worked as a financial advisor who is broke in retirement and an accountant who pays someone to do their tax returns. I also know a divorce lawyer who has been divorced several times. And I once met a nurse who was pregnant who smoked.

Just because someone works in a specialty, that doesn’t mean they practice it themself.

And no-one will care about your money as much as you do.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by Stinky »

water2357 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 1:05 am
Any bankers, brokers, lawyers(finance, estate, elder, real estate, etc), insurance professionals(life, health, casualty, etc.), actuaries(pension, health, life, etc.), government professionals(IRS, Social Security, Medicare, etc.), certified financial planners, CPAs, etc.?
It seems to me that there are quite a number of lawyers, given the thoughtful responses to many threads that bring up legal issues. They've often self-identified as lawyers in their responses.

There are also a handful of insurance professionals - folks who consistently and knowledgeably respond to questions about insurance products.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by celia »

livesoft wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 4:35 am My observation from many years of reading this forum is that the people here represent all occupations, but especially those with incomes high enough to allow for them to invest in IRAs.
FYI, you don’t need a high income to invest in an IRA. Even a teen with a couple hundred in earned income can invest in one.
:D
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by martincmartin »

water2357 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 1:05 am Or do a lot of people have knowledge more through personal experience, e.g. navigating investing, retirement, education planning, real estate purchases/sales, settling estates, helping relatives navigate long term care, Social Security, Medicare, etc.?
My knowledge comes mostly from reading books. I recommend William Bernstein's The Intelligent Asset Allocator. I've read his later books too, but they ramble more and mostly assume you already know the topics in TIAA.

When trying to decide on an asset allocation, and how it should change over time, I did some research with Simba's spreadsheet and re-discovered the bond tent, then read up about that.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by Parkinglotracer »

No doubt great background of contributors here. I took a couple year sabbatical from a defense industry job and interned at the largest fee only Advisor in our city. It was the place I told my wife to contact if something happened to me. I learned a lot from the CFA and CFPs in the firm. I learned if one firm has about a billion dollars of people’s money they manage and they charge on the average .6%-.7% annually to do that, they are making an incredible amount of money. Many calculators don’t even handle that many zeros. And this is in one mid sized firm in a mid sized town in America. I manage my own portfolio to avoid paying that 10K to 15K management fee (of course the nice people at Charles schwab and dfa and vanguard allow advisors to deduct the management fee quarterly from the accounts).
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by student »

celia wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 6:13 am I know of someone who worked as a financial advisor who is broke in retirement and an accountant who pays someone to do their tax returns. I also know a divorce lawyer who has been divorced several times. And I once met a nurse who was pregnant who smoked.

Just because someone works in a specialty, that doesn’t mean they practice it themself.

And no-one will care about your money as much as you do.
This reminds me of a recent experience. I received an email and a phone call from an advisor at Fidelity, who offered to have a meeting with me. I checked his FINRA record, which indicated that he had a bankruptcy. Yes, I understand that bankruptcy maybe due to extenuating circumstances.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by ROIGuy »

celia wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 6:13 am I know of someone who worked as a financial advisor who is broke in retirement and an accountant who pays someone to do their tax returns. I also know a divorce lawyer who has been divorced several times. And I once met a nurse who was pregnant who smoked.

Just because someone works in a specialty, that doesn’t mean they practice it themself.

And no-one will care about your money as much as you do.
And no-one will care about your money as much as you do. +1
Just because someone works in a specialty, that doesn’t mean they practice it themself. +1
I would add that I know people in various fields that don't practice their particular field themselves (to any great extent), but are very good in the advice that they give to others in their field of expertise.
Last edited by ROIGuy on Sun May 29, 2022 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by mbasherp »

I have a sibling who works in finance. She is always asking for my opinion or advice on personal finance topics. Despite that, she usually does her own thing that doesn’t work out quite so well. 🤷‍♂️
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

water2357 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 1:05 am Just wondering if there are a lot of people with financial backgrounds that frequent Bogleheads.
While my day job is software engineer, and when i found Bogleheads, i didn' know much. I now have 40+ university credits in financial planning related topics...

So is that a financial background?
Earned 43 (and counting) credit hours of financial planning related education from a regionally accredited university, but I am not your advisor.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by Fallible »

water2357 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 1:05 am I noticed there was a thread about the professions of high income earners and there were some financial professionals listed.

There seem to be a number of people with a variety of financial knowledge on Bogleheads. Just wondering if there are a lot of people with financial backgrounds that frequent Bogleheads.

Does anyone know?

Any bankers, brokers, lawyers(finance, estate, elder, real estate, etc), insurance professionals(life, health, casualty, etc.), actuaries(pension, health, life, etc.), government professionals(IRS, Social Security, Medicare, etc.), certified financial planners, CPAs, etc.?

Or do a lot of people have knowledge more through personal experience, e.g. navigating investing, retirement, education planning, real estate purchases/sales, settling estates, helping relatives navigate long term care, Social Security, Medicare, etc.?
Even if there are a "number of people with a variety of financial knowledge on Bogleheads," what's the point? :confused
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by nedsaid »

Parkinglotracer wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 6:35 am No doubt great background of contributors here. I took a couple year sabbatical from a defense industry job and interned at the largest fee only Advisor in our city. It was the place I told my wife to contact if something happened to me. I learned a lot from the CFA and CFPs in the firm. I learned if one firm has about a billion dollars of people’s money they manage and they charge on the average .6%-.7% annually to do that, they are making an incredible amount of money. Many calculators don’t even handle that many zeros. And this is in one mid sized firm in a mid sized town in America. I manage my own portfolio to avoid paying that 10K to 15K management fee (of course the nice people at Charles schwab and dfa and vanguard allow advisors to deduct the management fee quarterly from the accounts).
Judging from what Vanguard and other investment companies pay when they hire sub-advisors, active management costs a whole lot less than the 1% or more that can be charged as management fees by the investment companies for managing stock portfolios. In fact, the cost of active management seems to be just 20 or 30 basis points or even less. So you can see that companies that manage portfolios are immensely profitable.

You can then pay an Advisor 1% on top of that to pick among the funds described above. So your all-in costs, depending upon which firm you hire, can be 2% to 2.5% a year. If you need an Advisor, you want someone who recommends the low cost index funds or perhaps the lower cost Factor funds such as DFA or Avantis. Hopefully you can get Advisory services for less than the industry standard of 1% Assets Under Management.

The costs really add up and that is much of what we discuss here. You want as much as possible to flow into your own pocket and minimize what goes into other people's pockets. You can see why the industry is so profitable.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by Parkinglotracer »

nedsaid wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 11:15 am
Parkinglotracer wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 6:35 am No doubt great background of contributors here. I took a couple year sabbatical from a defense industry job and interned at the largest fee only Advisor in our city. It was the place I told my wife to contact if something happened to me. I learned a lot from the CFA and CFPs in the firm. I learned if one firm has about a billion dollars of people’s money they manage and they charge on the average .6%-.7% annually to do that, they are making an incredible amount of money. Many calculators don’t even handle that many zeros. And this is in one mid sized firm in a mid sized town in America. I manage my own portfolio to avoid paying that 10K to 15K management fee (of course the nice people at Charles schwab and dfa and vanguard allow advisors to deduct the management fee quarterly from the accounts).
Judging from what Vanguard and other investment companies pay when they hire sub-advisors, active management costs a whole lot less than the 1% or more that can be charged as management fees by the investment companies for managing stock portfolios. In fact, the cost of active management seems to be just 20 or 30 basis points or even less. So you can see that companies that manage portfolios are immensely profitable.

You can then pay an Advisor 1% on top of that to pick among the funds described above. So your all-in costs, depending upon which firm you hire, can be 2% to 2.5% a year. If you need an Advisor, you want someone who recommends the low cost index funds or perhaps the lower cost Factor funds such as DFA or Avantis. Hopefully you can get Advisory services for less than the industry standard of 1% Assets Under Management.

The costs really add up and that is much of what we discuss here. You want as much as possible to flow into your own pocket and minimize what goes into other people's pockets. You can see why the industry is so profitable.
Exactly. It is hard to read my sarcasm for high paid advisors in my above post. You get what you don’t pay for. A lot of people are paying huge amounts of fees to high priced salesmen across the world to help them buy a few index funds and stay the course. That is why we love this forum.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by nedsaid »

Parkinglotracer wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 1:27 pm
nedsaid wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 11:15 am
Parkinglotracer wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 6:35 am No doubt great background of contributors here. I took a couple year sabbatical from a defense industry job and interned at the largest fee only Advisor in our city. It was the place I told my wife to contact if something happened to me. I learned a lot from the CFA and CFPs in the firm. I learned if one firm has about a billion dollars of people’s money they manage and they charge on the average .6%-.7% annually to do that, they are making an incredible amount of money. Many calculators don’t even handle that many zeros. And this is in one mid sized firm in a mid sized town in America. I manage my own portfolio to avoid paying that 10K to 15K management fee (of course the nice people at Charles schwab and dfa and vanguard allow advisors to deduct the management fee quarterly from the accounts).
Judging from what Vanguard and other investment companies pay when they hire sub-advisors, active management costs a whole lot less than the 1% or more that can be charged as management fees by the investment companies for managing stock portfolios. In fact, the cost of active management seems to be just 20 or 30 basis points or even less. So you can see that companies that manage portfolios are immensely profitable.

You can then pay an Advisor 1% on top of that to pick among the funds described above. So your all-in costs, depending upon which firm you hire, can be 2% to 2.5% a year. If you need an Advisor, you want someone who recommends the low cost index funds or perhaps the lower cost Factor funds such as DFA or Avantis. Hopefully you can get Advisory services for less than the industry standard of 1% Assets Under Management.

The costs really add up and that is much of what we discuss here. You want as much as possible to flow into your own pocket and minimize what goes into other people's pockets. You can see why the industry is so profitable.
Exactly. It is hard to read my sarcasm for high paid advisors in my above post. You get what you don’t pay for. A lot of people are paying huge amounts of fees to high priced salesmen across the world to help them buy a few index funds and stay the course. That is why we love this forum.
I still believe that most individuals would benefit from some type of advisory relationship. Dr. Bill Bernstein has stated this and indeed he runs his own advisory firm. The issue is being aware of costs and not overpaying for what you are getting. Right now, Vanguard Personal Advisory Service is among the best deals out there for an Assets Under Management arrangement.

What most people really need is Financial Planning. Since Bogleheads use simpler portfolios, the need to pay somebody to manage portfolios is greatly reduced. If you can run your own portfolio, you will save a fortune in Assets Under Management fees and you can just pay for whatever advice you need,
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by grabiner »

I am a mathematician, so I understand a lot of the underlying theory, but I am not a financial professional. (I wrote my thesis on random walks, but not on the type of problem that is used to model the stock market.)
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by cashmoney »

water2357 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 1:05 am I noticed there was a thread about the professions of high income earners and there were some financial professionals listed.

There seem to be a number of people with a variety of financial knowledge on Bogleheads. Just wondering if there are a lot of people with financial backgrounds that frequent Bogleheads.

Does anyone know?

Any bankers, brokers, lawyers(finance, estate, elder, real estate, etc), insurance professionals(life, health, casualty, etc.), actuaries(pension, health, life, etc.), government professionals(IRS, Social Security, Medicare, etc.), certified financial planners, CPAs, etc.?

Or do a lot of people have knowledge more through personal experience, e.g. navigating investing, retirement, education planning, real estate purchases/sales, settling estates, helping relatives navigate long term care, Social Security, Medicare, etc.?

I suspect there is a lot of self employed people here who have to take the initiative to set up their own retirement accounts.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

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i manage a good size commercial banking group.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

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Actuary (FSA) and CFA charterholder here.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

This great PBS documentary called The Retirement Gamble has a section in which an economist (Ph.D) didn't know what he was paying in fees, but set out to find out what he was paying and why it was so hard to find. The financial industry depends upon obfuscation and lack of transparency.

The documentary also features people in the financial industry who thought requiring people in the financial world to be fiduciaries was a bad ide (guess why? show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome. "It's difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."--Upton Sinclair)

the documentary also features Jack Bogle and other notables.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by 9-5 Suited »

Blue456 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 5:53 am
JD09 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 4:40 am I've been in an IB for most of my career and I'm amazed by the lack of personal finance knowledge in most of my colleagues. One can't assume just because someone is working in a bank, they have lot of knowledge about personal finance.
My brother in law is up there in Marrill Lynch and keeps trying to get me set up with high fee advisor...
What does he say when you tell him you’re not interested?
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by Dave55 »

I had a series 3 License and worked as a Commodities Broker servicing Oil/Gasoline traders and also worked on the New York Mercantile Exchange in the Oil Futures pit when I was in my 20's. Good learning experience.

Dave
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by Blue456 »

9-5 Suited wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 4:51 pm
Blue456 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 5:53 am
JD09 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 4:40 am I've been in an IB for most of my career and I'm amazed by the lack of personal finance knowledge in most of my colleagues. One can't assume just because someone is working in a bank, they have lot of knowledge about personal finance.
My brother in law is up there in Marrill Lynch and keeps trying to get me set up with high fee advisor...
What does he say when you tell him you’re not interested?
You know the usual. Missing out, could have doubled your wealth, could have paid off your student loans (7.25% interest) by investing with FA, keeping the family from making money... Luckily my wife sticks with my decisions.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by Ed 2 »

JD09 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 4:40 am I've been in an IB for most of my career and I'm amazed by the lack of personal finance knowledge in most of my colleagues. One can't assume just because someone is working in a bank, they have lot of knowledge about personal finance.
Same. I am not in finance but I know couple of people , one is realtor and the other is a banker. Both of them I had to explain how to invest in Index funds without paying too much. Me))), the guy who far away from finance has to explain investing 101.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by tenkuky »

Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 8:18 am
water2357 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 1:05 am Just wondering if there are a lot of people with financial backgrounds that frequent Bogleheads.
While my day job is software engineer, and when i found Bogleheads, i didn' know much. I now have 40+ university credits in financial planning related topics...

So is that a financial background?
Ooh, I’d love to pursue something like this.
Is this online and something you can do ad hoc? Or commit to a semester or several?
I will not have time to do the latter with my day job unless asynchronous virtual.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

tenkuky wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 6:54 pm
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 8:18 am
water2357 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 1:05 am Just wondering if there are a lot of people with financial backgrounds that frequent Bogleheads.
While my day job is software engineer, and when i found Bogleheads, i didn' know much. I now have 40+ university credits in financial planning related topics...

So is that a financial background?
Ooh, I’d love to pursue something like this.
Is this online and something you can do ad hoc? Or commit to a semester or several?
I will not have time to do the latter with my day job unless asynchronous virtual.
The American College is licensed to teach the CFP education, and it has overlap with the ChFC that they award. I took all of the ChFC and then the RICP through TAC. https://www.theamericancollege.edu/ Almost all of the ChFC/RICP was self study, maybe except one class.

I've also taken roughly half of their Masters degree but that is asynchronous virtual 10(or maybe 12) week classes.
Earned 43 (and counting) credit hours of financial planning related education from a regionally accredited university, but I am not your advisor.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by smectym »

water2357 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 1:05 am I noticed there was a thread about the professions of high income earners and there were some financial professionals listed.

There seem to be a number of people with a variety of financial knowledge on Bogleheads. Just wondering if there are a lot of people with financial backgrounds that frequent Bogleheads.

Does anyone know?

Any bankers, brokers, lawyers(finance, estate, elder, real estate, etc), insurance professionals(life, health, casualty, etc.), actuaries(pension, health, life, etc.), government professionals(IRS, Social Security, Medicare, etc.), certified financial planners, CPAs, etc.?

Or do a lot of people have knowledge more through personal experience, e.g. navigating investing, retirement, education planning, real estate purchases/sales, settling estates, helping relatives navigate long term care, Social Security, Medicare, etc.?
My impression is that if it’s suspected that a poster may be in the financial industry—especially, look out, anything within a country mile of annuity sales—some few vigilant members may initially view that as suspicious, and a certain amount of hazing may ensue.

Whether financial pros looking for “prospects” really come to this forum, I don’t know. On the one hand, yes, it’s a forum about money and money management; on the other hand, it’s not a forum of “easy marks” by any means.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by topper1296 »

My BS is in personal financial planning (it fulfilled the educational requirements for the CFP examination at the time) and spent about 10 years working in custody and trust income, insurance operations (picked up the FLMI designation at the time) and as a loan officer, however I left the finance industry behind about 20 years ago to work in finance in a different unrelated industry.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by bonglehead »

I have been working in banking for about 2 decades now.
I am FINRA registered (Series 7/63/79), most of my colleagues are pretty savvy in their personal financial matters but don’t necessarily adhere to strict boglehead principles espoused here. Also we are prohibited from trading individual stocks so everyone is forced to hold mutual funds /ETFs only but they don’t always invest in passive funds/ETFs
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by water2357 »

Some thoughtful replies. I'm guessing there must be some relatively well informed contributors on a broad variety of topics, beyond investing, related to financial security/navigating life's financial complexities. i've seen some replies on Social Security that really get into the weeds of the timing and calculation of benefits. And then there are discussions on Medicare, Medicaid, long term care, estate settlement, taxation, real estate issues, etc. as well as investing.

It's true that even if you work with someone who is an expert in their field, you need to educate yourself as well. The experts don't know all the circumstances of your situation and can overlook items that may be of benefit to your case. But the experts can get you going in the right direction, point out what is necessary and what is inconsequential, keep you from getting bogged down. They can also create problems in some cases, no one person can ever know enough. And life's experience can also provide quite an education as you have to navigate all of the issues that ultimately crop up, whether for yourself or someone else.

I've had to navigate and interact with quite a bit of federal and state government regulations over time on retirement benefits, social security, private and public health benefits(Medicaid, Medicare, etc), estate settlement, taxation, trusts, etc. And some of that is in my field, but no matter how much you know, you are still always looking for answers.

From what I've seen so far, there seems to be enough true expertise on Bogleheads to point you in the right direction. So, if you are in finance or a related field involving some of the topics I've mentioned, or have extensive life experience, thanks for posirively contributing. And it is also of benefit to be told when you truly need to hire an expert.

And yes courses in CFP, etc. do count, so anyone else out there who cares to share on what Bogleheads topic area they may have some insight?
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AnnetteLouisan
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

I’m pretty well informed about what not to do… lol.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by Sandtrap »

water2357 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 1:05 am I noticed there was a thread about the professions of high income earners and there were some financial professionals listed.

There seem to be a number of people with a variety of financial knowledge on Bogleheads.
1
Just wondering if there are a lot of people with financial backgrounds that frequent Bogleheads.

Does anyone know?

2
Any bankers, brokers, lawyers(finance, estate, elder, real estate, etc), insurance professionals(life, health, casualty, etc.), actuaries(pension, health, life, etc.), government professionals(IRS, Social Security, Medicare, etc.), certified financial planners, CPAs, etc.?

3
Or do a lot of people have knowledge more through personal experience, e.g. navigating investing, retirement, education planning, real estate purchases/sales, settling estates, helping relatives navigate long term care, Social Security, Medicare, etc.?
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes

However, Experience and background in any of the above areas does not guarantee solid actionable and constructive forum post input in any area, professionally, or in life, etc.

IE:
1. Sometimes professional experience or institutional experience, etc, confines one to a certain metric of understanding and presentation (inside the box), sometimes not.
2. Sometimes those with "financial industry backgrounds" (from bank teller to. . . ?) are absolutely clueless and only able to think inside what position they held, and were told, etc, sometimes not.
3. Etc.

However, overall, "with personal discretion and deep research", the depth and breadth of forum life experience and knowledge and so forth is . . . formidable.

And, time spent on the forum, getting to "know and understand" who is what, who "walks the talk" or vs vs, et al, can be enriching and . . . interesting.
There are forum members and senior members who have vast and deep areas of contribution in their areas of expertise, etc.

j :D
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JackoC
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by JackoC »

smectym wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 7:52 pm
water2357 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 1:05 am I noticed there was a thread about the professions of high income earners and there were some financial professionals listed.

There seem to be a number of people with a variety of financial knowledge on Bogleheads. Just wondering if there are a lot of people with financial backgrounds that frequent Bogleheads.

Does anyone know?

Any bankers, brokers, lawyers(finance, estate, elder, real estate, etc), insurance professionals(life, health, casualty, etc.), actuaries(pension, health, life, etc.), government professionals(IRS, Social Security, Medicare, etc.), certified financial planners, CPAs, etc.?

Or do a lot of people have knowledge more through personal experience, e.g. navigating investing, retirement, education planning, real estate purchases/sales, settling estates, helping relatives navigate long term care, Social Security, Medicare, etc.?
My impression is that if it’s suspected that a poster may be in the financial industry—especially, look out, anything within a country mile of annuity sales—some few vigilant members may initially view that as suspicious, and a certain amount of hazing may ensue.

Whether financial pros looking for “prospects” really come to this forum, I don’t know. On the one hand, yes, it’s a forum about money and money management; on the other hand, it’s not a forum of “easy marks” by any means.
Most answers seem to assume relevant 'financial professional' experience would be as personal financial advisor or even (universe forbid) retail financial products salesperson. But while a few 'name brand' personal financial writers have posted here under their own names (less common lately it seems), I would guess in part as advertising in a broad sense (nothing wrong with that IMO) I very much doubt there are any posters pretending to be 'regular investors' who are actually financial advisors or sales people trying to get clients. How would that even work if you don't say who you are?

Seems to me though for financial topics that aren't about retail financial advice, for example mechanics of fixed income and the yield curve (very common) or even derivatives (not uncommon), having trading the relevant instruments professionally for many years might give a person insight it would be more difficult to get just by reading up on it. Or at least such a person's own experience might have been that they learned some things doing it professionally for years they hadn't learned from their own reading or formal education before that. Just guessing here. :wink:

In general though I believe the facts and arguments a poster presents should be what matters rather than appeal to authority.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by chazas »

I’m a securities lawyer but that has little to do with my own personal investing. Some of my colleagues have been very successful doing it in a non-Bogleheads way. Others, well, let’s just say I’ve heard some folks admit to some rather terrible mistakes.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by bearhattan »

Doctors are often enough neither the best patients nor most fit. Like other posters I don't see many in the financial industry hewing to "boring" advice. It's an inconvenient truth and I suppose a dissonance.

Also, that said, I listen to doctors more than typical financial advice...
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by Valuethinker »

chazas wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 8:50 am I’m a securities lawyer but that has little to do with my own personal investing. Some of my colleagues have been very successful doing it in a non-Bogleheads way. Others, well, let’s just say I’ve heard some folks admit to some rather terrible mistakes.
I don't know re securities lawyers, but for auditors I am amazed if they can do any investing at all.

There was a time, when, from memory, PWC interpreted the rules that employees could not hold stocks in PWC audit clients, not even in mutual funds that they did not control. That eventually got sorted out with the SEC.

So for someone who works for a large professional services organisation, any kind of discretionary investing is fraught with peril. You bought stock in a non-client, of a company anywhere in the world. A year later it has 3x and you need to sell it to make that house purchase. Oops... in the meantime it has become a client of your firm. Frozen.

I am in a position where I held a Canadian fund, but just because of one of their large UK investments, I had a problem. I debated it and just sold the investment (at a loss) before actually joining my current employer - I could have imagined many years of explaining it to compliance & HR, again and again.

You just don't want to be on the receiving end of an investigation by SEC, FCA or equivalent securities regulators. Even if you have done nothing wrong.

I am aware many finance professionals take a more liberal view of things.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by lostdog »

I worked at a CPA/Wealth management firm for 15 years and frequented the bogleheads site for years.

We are financially independent because of bogleheads and my former employer.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by IowaFarmBoy »

I worked in IT for a large multi-line insurance company so my knowledge came around topics that I programmed. I did complete CLU, LOMA and ChFC designations.
Before going into IT, I was a licensed life agent but never got off the ground. I just couldn't sell- I think it was latent Bogleheadedness expressing itself.....
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by DesertDiva »

I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last month.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

bearhattan wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 9:18 am Doctors are often enough neither the best patients nor most fit. Like other posters I don't see many in the financial industry hewing to "boring" advice. It's an inconvenient truth and I suppose a dissonance.

Also, that said, I listen to doctors more than typical financial advice...
We do boring, in part to avoid dancing with Compliance. I was in financial services, my wife still is, and one of our children is now. When you need pre-approval for any trading that’s not in a large indexed fund or ETF at an approved brokerage, it doesn’t entice. I did almost invest some funny money in ARKK, but my son talked me out of that mistake; I think I was pretty accurately identifying peak ARKK. I don’t have any funny money, unless you consider PRIMECAP funny money.

Our financial results have exceeded my expectations. I still am conservative in plotting the future, but we enjoy the fruits of our (uh, mostly my wife’s) labor.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by chazas »

Valuethinker wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 9:24 am
chazas wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 8:50 am I’m a securities lawyer but that has little to do with my own personal investing. Some of my colleagues have been very successful doing it in a non-Bogleheads way. Others, well, let’s just say I’ve heard some folks admit to some rather terrible mistakes.
I don't know re securities lawyers, but for auditors I am amazed if they can do any investing at all.

There was a time, when, from memory, PWC interpreted the rules that employees could not hold stocks in PWC audit clients, not even in mutual funds that they did not control. That eventually got sorted out with the SEC.

So for someone who works for a large professional services organisation, any kind of discretionary investing is fraught with peril. You bought stock in a non-client, of a company anywhere in the world. A year later it has 3x and you need to sell it to make that house purchase. Oops... in the meantime it has become a client of your firm. Frozen.

I am in a position where I held a Canadian fund, but just because of one of their large UK investments, I had a problem. I debated it and just sold the investment (at a loss) before actually joining my current employer - I could have imagined many years of explaining it to compliance & HR, again and again.

You just don't want to be on the receiving end of an investigation by SEC, FCA or equivalent securities regulators. Even if you have done nothing wrong.

I am aware many finance professionals take a more liberal view of things.
For big firms like mine there are securities trading clearance procedures to avoid this.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by AlwaysLearningMore »

Stinky wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 6:18 am There are also a handful of insurance professionals - folks who consistently and knowledgeably respond to questions about insurance products.
As an example, IIRC you often provider valuable insurance industry information. Many posters find this very helpful.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by HanSolo »

DesertDiva wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 9:59 am I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last month.
Does that count?
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by JBTX »

Years of employment in corporate accounting and finance, CPA, and had investment portfolio classes in undergrad and grad school. All that helped build a foundation and pique my interest but most of what I know was I gathered on my own over the years, and has been greatly enhanced by Bogleheads over the past 5 years or so.
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Re: Are there many people with financial industry backgrounds on Bogleheads?

Post by Picasso »

Specialized knowledge of health insurance, both medical and pharma, through my work. It’s really interesting and has certainly informed my financial decisions.
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