Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

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ralphboy
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ralphboy »

I have a question about dividends. Do you know why I'm not getting a monthly dividend with my moderate balanced fund (https://my.voya.com/static/epweb/pdf/ffs/CH5T.PDF)? When I was invested in baird, I received monthly dividends. I thought my monthly dividends would go up since I went from 20% bonds (Baird) to 37% bonds in the moderate balanced fund.

In the last 30 days, I have only received "cash earnings" of a few cents but if I was in Baird, I would have received a dividend of $7.

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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by grabiner »

ralphboy wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:17 am I have a question about dividends. Do you know why I'm not getting a monthly dividend with my moderate balanced fund (https://my.voya.com/static/epweb/pdf/ffs/CH5T.PDF)? When I was invested in baird, I received monthly dividends. I thought my monthly dividends would go up since I went from 20% bonds (Baird) to 37% bonds in the moderate balanced fund.

In the last 30 days, I have only received "cash earnings" of a few cents but if I was in Baird, I would have received a dividend of $7.

Image
These funds may be Collective Investment Trusts, which automatically reinvest all income rather than distributing it.

Your total return is the same either way. When a fund receives a dividend, the dividend is always added to the fund's assets, and thus it is part of the net asset value per share. Traditional mutual funds must distribute their dividends regularly, causing the NAV to decrease by the amount of the dividend; if you reinvest the dividend, your total investment has not changed because you now have more shares worth fewer dollars. CITs which do not distribute dividends will instead reinvest the dividend themselves in stock or bonds.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by student »

ralphboy wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:24 am I'm trying to figure out the most number of shares that I can sell for SOCL and PNQI to not have to pay extra taxes. I used a capital gains tax calculator, is this accurate?

I bought 200 shares of SOCL at $20 (Initial value $4000) and it says I can sell it for $23,000 (200 shares x $115) and not pay federal taxes with my annual income of $35,000.

For PNQI, I bought 100 shares at $69 (Initial value $6900) and it says I can sell it for $25,900 (100 shares x $259) and not pay federal taxes with my annual income of $35,000.
Interesting. I was intrigue on the increase of value. So I checked https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... 1-d&q=SOCL and I don't see it ever went above $77 (2021). At the time of your posting (September, 2022), it was in the $30's. What am I missing? PNQI was in the $130's in September, 2022 according to https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... 1-d&q=PNQI
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by Lionel Hutz »

1st page, third row from the bottom: "The Fund is a collective investment trust".
ralphboy wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:17 am I have a question about dividends. Do you know why I'm not getting a monthly dividend with my moderate balanced fund (https://my.voya.com/static/epweb/pdf/ffs/CH5T.PDF)?
See grabiner's post above for the explanation, but this is a good thing.
grabiner wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:00 am These funds may be Collective Investment Trusts, which automatically reinvest all income rather than distributing it.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by grabiner »

Lionel Hutz wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 4:05 pm 1st page, third row from the bottom: "The Fund is a collective investment trust".
ralphboy wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:17 am I have a question about dividends. Do you know why I'm not getting a monthly dividend with my moderate balanced fund (https://my.voya.com/static/epweb/pdf/ffs/CH5T.PDF)?
See grabiner's post above for the explanation, but this is a good thing.
grabiner wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:00 am These funds may be Collective Investment Trusts, which automatically reinvest all income rather than distributing it.
In a 401(k), it's not any better or worse. A traditional mutual fund which pays a dividend may turn 100 shares worth $102 into 102 shares worth $100, while a CIT would keep the 100 shares worth $102. Either way, you have the same $10,200 investment.

In a taxable investment, not paying out the dividend would reduce the tax bill, but this is not allowed; the IRS requires mutual funds to distribute received dividends as taxable income to their shareholders.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ralphboy »

student wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:17 am
ralphboy wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:24 am I'm trying to figure out the most number of shares that I can sell for SOCL and PNQI to not have to pay extra taxes. I used a capital gains tax calculator, is this accurate?

I bought 200 shares of SOCL at $20 (Initial value $4000) and it says I can sell it for $23,000 (200 shares x $115) and not pay federal taxes with my annual income of $35,000.

For PNQI, I bought 100 shares at $69 (Initial value $6900) and it says I can sell it for $25,900 (100 shares x $259) and not pay federal taxes with my annual income of $35,000.
Interesting. I was intrigue on the increase of value. So I checked https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... 1-d&q=SOCL and I don't see it ever went above $77 (2021). At the time of your posting (September, 2022), it was in the $30's. What am I missing? PNQI was in the $130's in September, 2022 according to https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... 1-d&q=PNQI
I didn't buy when I made the post. My broker bought them for me in 2014 or 2015.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by Lionel Hutz »

grabiner wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 4:53 pm
Lionel Hutz wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 4:05 pm 1st page, third row from the bottom: "The Fund is a collective investment trust".
ralphboy wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:17 am I have a question about dividends. Do you know why I'm not getting a monthly dividend with my moderate balanced fund (https://my.voya.com/static/epweb/pdf/ffs/CH5T.PDF)?
See grabiner's post above for the explanation, but this is a good thing.
grabiner wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:00 am These funds may be Collective Investment Trusts, which automatically reinvest all income rather than distributing it.
In a 401(k), it's not any better or worse. A traditional mutual fund which pays a dividend may turn 100 shares worth $102 into 102 shares worth $100, while a CIT would keep the 100 shares worth $102. Either way, you have the same $10,200 investment.

In a taxable investment, not paying out the dividend would reduce the tax bill, but this is not allowed; the IRS requires mutual funds to distribute received dividends as taxable income to their shareholders.
Good point. The CIT does tend to have a lower ER and therefore higher return. Probably negligible at the individual participant level though.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by student »

ralphboy wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:50 pm
student wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:17 am
ralphboy wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:24 am I'm trying to figure out the most number of shares that I can sell for SOCL and PNQI to not have to pay extra taxes. I used a capital gains tax calculator, is this accurate?

I bought 200 shares of SOCL at $20 (Initial value $4000) and it says I can sell it for $23,000 (200 shares x $115) and not pay federal taxes with my annual income of $35,000.

For PNQI, I bought 100 shares at $69 (Initial value $6900) and it says I can sell it for $25,900 (100 shares x $259) and not pay federal taxes with my annual income of $35,000.
Interesting. I was intrigue on the increase of value. So I checked https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... 1-d&q=SOCL and I don't see it ever went above $77 (2021). At the time of your posting (September, 2022), it was in the $30's. What am I missing? PNQI was in the $130's in September, 2022 according to https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... 1-d&q=PNQI
I didn't buy when I made the post. My broker bought them for me in 2014 or 2015.
I understand that you did not buy them when you made the post. I was referring to what you said they were worth in September 2022. You said SOCL was worth $115 a share and PNQI was worth $259 a share. I don't see such values in the charts. Am I missing something?
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ralphboy »

Oh, I was trying to figure out around how much I could sell each share (the maximum price they could be in the future) without having to pay any or extra taxes. I am trying to be better prepared to act when or if the price of those 2 investments go back up. I wish I had sold them in 2021 when they were just starting to decline in value, then I would be sitting on a whole bunch of cash and be able to invest $6,000 each year in my Roth in the target date fund in a bear market.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by student »

ralphboy wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:58 am Oh, I was trying to figure out around how much I could sell each share (the maximum price they could be in the future) without having to pay any or extra taxes. I am trying to be better prepared to act when or if the price of those 2 investments go back up. I wish I had sold them in 2021 when they were just starting to decline in value, then I would be sitting on a whole bunch of cash and be able to invest $6,000 each year in my Roth in the target date fund in a bear market.
Thanks for the explanation.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ruralavalon »

ralphboy wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:58 am Oh, I was trying to figure out around how much I could sell each share (the maximum price they could be in the future) without having to pay any or extra taxes. I am trying to be better prepared to act when or if the price of those 2 investments go back up. I wish I had sold them in 2021 when they were just starting to decline in value, then I would be sitting on a whole bunch of cash and be able to invest $6,000 each year in my Roth in the target date fund in a bear market.
Don't waste your time thinking about the past values.

You could not have known in 2021 that those investments (Global X Social Media ETF [SOCL] and Invesco NASDAQ Internet ETF [PNQI]) would continue to decline. Trying to time the market does not work, except in hindsight.

I would not delay selling these investments waiting for the share price to recover to the price you paid. This is a behavioral pitfall called "anchoring". Trying to time the market does not work, except in hindsight.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ralphboy »

Publix stock went down from $13.84 to $13.19. I won't be buying any more stock since I get about $3,000 a year in stock for being a "Publix owner." I have kept my allocation on 100% for the moderate balanced investment. I am considering selling my Publix stock (I invested about $8,000) when Publix stock goes up to $20. That way I would just about double my money; my dollar cost average is $10.60. I think for my roth contribution in 2023, I'll take $1,000 out of my savings account and sell $5,000 of FFNOX in the brokerage account.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ruralavalon »

ralphboy wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 7:28 am Publix stock went down from $13.84 to $13.19. I won't be buying any more stock since I get about $3,000 a year in stock for being a "Publix owner." I have kept my allocation on 100% for the moderate balanced investment. I am considering selling my Publix stock (I invested about $8,000) when Publix stock goes up to $20. That way I would just about double my money; my dollar cost average is $10.60. I think for my roth contribution in 2023, I'll take $1,000 out of my savings account and sell $5,000 of FFNOX in the brokerage account.
It's great that you will not be buying any more Publix stock, and will only get what is given to you as an employee.

It's great to see that you will continue to fully fund your Roth IRA each year by selling from your taxable brokerage account.

The contribution limit for an IRA in 2023 will be $6,500.
IRS, Retirement Topics - IRA Contribution Limits.

How much do you currently contribute annually to your 401k account?
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ralphboy »

ruralavalon wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:54 am How much do you currently contribute annually to your 401k account?
$6,920 ($125/week and 30% of my christmas bonus)
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ralphboy »

I have a question about selling and buying mutual funds. If I sell/buy before the market opens, will I end up selling/buying at the price that it is at? Same thing goes selling/buying at close. Last time I ended up buying during market hours and I was bummed that I ended up buying at a higher price (Was wondering if there is a better way to buy and sell, to avoid that from happening).
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by student »

ralphboy wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 5:25 pm I have a question about selling and buying mutual funds. If I sell/buy before the market opens, will I end up selling/buying at the price that it is at? Same thing goes selling/buying at close. Last time I ended up buying during market hours and I was bummed that I ended up buying at a higher price (Was wondering if there is a better way to buy and sell, to avoid that from happening).
I think if you put in buy/sell order after hour such as at 6pm on Thursday, you will get the Friday closing price.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by suemarkp »

Yes, that's a feature or draw back of mutual funds versus ETFs depending on how you look at it. For a mutual fund, if you buy/sell in the morning or during the trading day, you will get the price at the close of that day. So that could be up or down from what you see when you click buy or sell. ETFs go at current price, but there is a buy-sell spread you need to choose. You can do a market order, but again you won't know what you got until the order closes. It will probably happen quickly, but not so sure Vanguard tell you what it is until later in the day.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by clip651 »

401k accounts typically only have mutual funds, not ETFs. Mutual funds have one price at the end of each trading day. You will get the price at the next close after your trade is placed, so you will never know the exact price ahead of time.

Since there is no need to market time, this works out fine (on average, over time). The price at the next closing should be close enough. Don’t get attached to yesterday’s price.

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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ralphboy »

In my roth account, I made the maximum contribution in the beginning of January and invested the $6,000 in a target date fund but it says I have:

"Cash available to trade
Use to purchase securities intended to be held until settlement

Current:$1.57

Settled cash
Use to purchase securities that can be sold at any time

Current:$1.57"

Any idea why this is the case? Is it ok for me to invest the $1.57 or do I have to wait till next year?

Another question, with the moderate balanced fund and aggressive balanced fund in my 401k, will basically the moderate fund perform better (less worse) when the economy is doing bad and the aggressive fund do better when the economy is doing well?
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ruralavalon »

ralphboy wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:53 am In my roth account, I made the maximum contribution in the beginning of January and invested the $6,000 in a target date fund but it says I have:

"Cash available to trade
Use to purchase securities intended to be held until settlement

Current:$1.57

Settled cash
Use to purchase securities that can be sold at any time

Current:$1.57"

Any idea why this is the case? Is it ok for me to invest the $1.57 or do I have to wait till next year?
Yes, you can invest that $1.57 cash which is already in your Roth IRA.

You should set up automatic reinvestment of distributions in the target-date fund in your Roth IRA.

ralphboy wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:53 amAnother question, with the moderate balanced fund and aggressive balanced fund in my 401k, will basically the moderate fund perform better (less worse) when the economy is doing bad and the aggressive fund do better when the economy is doing well?
Probably.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ralphboy »

It says

Roth IRA
Security.............................................Dividends................Capital Gains
FIDELITY FREEDOM INDEX 2055 INVESTOR....Reinvest in Security....Reinvest in Security
FIDELITY GOVERNMENT MONEY MARKET.......Reinvest in Security...Reinvest in Security
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ruralavalon »

ralphboy wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:44 am It says

Roth IRA
Security.............................................Dividends................Capital Gains
FIDELITY FREEDOM INDEX 2055 INVESTOR....Reinvest in Security....Reinvest in Security
FIDELITY GOVERNMENT MONEY MARKET.......Reinvest in Security...Reinvest in Security
I don't know why you need a money market fund in your Roth IRA.

Ask the local Fidelity customer service office about this.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ralphboy »

Should I just change it to this?

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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by 8foot7 »

ralphboy wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:21 am Should I just change it to this?

Image
Yes.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by placeholder »

Just a guess but if it took a little while to make the investment that might be interest and money market might be the sweep account.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ralphboy »

Since I have a good amount of money in my savings account, I was thinking about increasing my 401k contribution by $75 a week or investing $3,900 ($75 x 52 weeks) in my target date fund for next year.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ruralavalon »

ralphboy wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:43 am Since I have a good amount of money in my savings account, I was thinking about increasing my 401k contribution by $75 a week or investing $3,900 ($75 x 52 weeks) in my target date fund for next year.
Good idea. Establishing a higher rate of contributions is the most important investing decision you can make.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ralphboy »

Do you all think 2023 will be another bad year? I wasn't sure which account to invest more in. If things are going to be worse next year, maybe it would be best to invest throughout the year to "buy the dip?"
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by 8foot7 »

ralphboy wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:11 am Do you all think 2023 will be another bad year? I wasn't sure which account to invest more in. If things are going to be worse next year, maybe it would be best to invest throughout the year to "buy the dip?"
The surest bet there is in this world is to just keep buying.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by z3r0c00l »

ralphboy wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:11 am Do you all think 2023 will be another bad year? I wasn't sure which account to invest more in. If things are going to be worse next year, maybe it would be best to invest throughout the year to "buy the dip?"
No one, literally no one on Earth knows. Odds are, all things equal, it will be a good year so you should invest now. Buying the dip is not a real thing.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

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ralphboy wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:11 am Do you all think 2023 will be another bad year? I wasn't sure which account to invest more in. If things are going to be worse next year, maybe it would be best to invest throughout the year to "buy the dip?"
Nobody knows. It is not knowable.

Invest regularly when you have the money to invest. You really really need to stop trying to time the market.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ruralavalon »

ralphboy wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:11 am Do you all think 2023 will be another bad year? I wasn't sure which account to invest more in. If things are going to be worse next year, maybe it would be best to invest throughout the year to "buy the dip?"
Nobody knows.

Invest whenever you have money available to invest.

Give up on the idea that it's possible to time the markets.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by typical.investor »

ruralavalon wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:02 pm
ralphboy wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:11 am Do you all think 2023 will be another bad year? I wasn't sure which account to invest more in. If things are going to be worse next year, maybe it would be best to invest throughout the year to "buy the dip?"
Nobody knows.

Invest whenever you have money available to invest.

Give up on the idea that it's possible to time the markets.
+1

Timing is just not reliably possible. But no, I think 2023 will be better unless X,Y or Z happens.

Disclaimer: I really don't know the likelihood of X, Y and Z happening. Even with something we know for certain such as a flip of a coin (50-50%), it's really only meaningful over the longer term.

Figuring out how to increase your income has better odd of paying off.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by sc9182 »

“ Figuring out how to increase your income has better odd of paying off.”

+1

Personally- glad i skipped peeking into most of the pages of content/responses on this long post - meandering all over.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ralphboy »

Thanks, I kind of figured that no one knows nothing. I plan on increasing my 401k contribution to 20% and will keep it at that. Every year, I'll see how my savings looks like and make a contribution to my target date fund. I take it that both the target date fund and the moderate fund are good choices, so as long as I put money in 1 or both, that I'll be in good shape. I do need to find a better job but one thing that I like about where I'm at is they are accommodating to me requesting days off to take my mom to doctors.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ralphboy »

I created a wash sale by selling ffnox in the brokerage and buying the target date in my roth. When I get my tax information from Fidelity's website will it have something for my wash sale? (I assume I created one last year as well)

This was FFNOX in my brokerage:
Image

Also I put my order to buy my target date fund before the market opened and it bought it at closing. During the day, I saw the market was doing well and realized that I was going to end up buying at a higher price . In the future could I put in my order to buy a few minutes before the market closes? I guess it's not a huge deal but I could have had 7 more shares if I purchased at yesterday's price. (If I already asked this question in the thread, I apologize)
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by placeholder »

ralphboy wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:56 pm I created a wash sale by selling ffnox in the brokerage and buying the target date in my roth.
Why do you think that as I doubt those are substantially identical?
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ralphboy »

placeholder wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:13 pm
ralphboy wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:56 pm I created a wash sale by selling ffnox in the brokerage and buying the target date in my roth.
Why do you think that as I doubt those are substantially identical?
Because the blue (W) in my post stands for wash sale
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by placeholder »

ralphboy wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:22 pm
placeholder wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:13 pm
ralphboy wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:56 pm I created a wash sale by selling ffnox in the brokerage and buying the target date in my roth.
Why do you think that as I doubt those are substantially identical?
Because the blue (W) in my post stands for wash sale
That can't be from buying something else in a roth as the automatic wash sale is for the same security in the same account so I think something else happened.
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ralphboy
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ralphboy »

I don't know... I just sold $6,075 of FFNOX yesterday from my brokerage account and today moved the cash over to my roth and then used it to buy $6,075 of FDEWX. I then saw the blue w in my brokerage account and next to it it says, "Adjusted due to previous wash sale disallowed loss. If you sell shares at a loss and you purchase additional shares of the same or a substantially identical security (in the same or a different account) within the 61 day period that begins 30 days before and ends 30 days after the sale, the purchase may result in a wash sale. If a wash sale occurs, the loss from the transaction should be "disallowed" for tax purposes, and the amount of the loss should be added to the cost basis of the newly-purchased shares. Unless otherwise requested or noted, Fidelity adjusts cost basis information related to newly-purchased shares when a wash sale occurs within an account as the result of an identical security purchase. Fidelity does not report disallowed losses or adjust cost basis information related to wash sales triggered by sales and purchases of the same security within different accounts or by sales and purchases of substantially identical securities within the same or different accounts. Fidelity does not apply any wash sale rules to tax lots with customer or 3rd-party provided cost basis. You must check your own records across all of your Fidelity and non-Fidelity accounts to ensure that you are correctly accounting for losses related to any wash sales."
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by grabiner »

ralphboy wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:31 pm I don't know... I just sold $6,075 of FFNOX yesterday from my brokerage account and today moved the cash over to my roth and then used it to buy $6,075 of FDEWX. I then saw the blue w in my brokerage account and next to it it says, "Adjusted due to previous wash sale disallowed loss."
Note the "previous." You probably had a wash sale caused by some previous purchase of FFNOX, because you sold for a loss and bought back within 30 days. This did not disallow the loss; rather, the loss was added to the basis of the replacement shares. Thus you got back the loss when you sold those replacement shares.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by placeholder »

It tells you right there that they wouldn't do that and while those two funds are similar they are not in my opinion substantially identical and you can see the asset allocations below:

https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /31634R109
https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /315793828

You need to contact fidelity and ask them what caused the wash sale because I think there's essentially no way it's that roth purchase.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by typical.investor »

ralphboy wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:56 pm Also I put my order to buy my target date fund before the market opened and it bought it at closing. During the day, I saw the market was doing well and realized that I was going to end up buying at a higher price . In the future could I put in my order to buy a few minutes before the market closes? I guess it's not a huge deal but I could have had 7 more shares if I purchased at yesterday's price. (If I already asked this question in the thread, I apologize)


Yes, sure you can.

The thing is though, if we assume positive returns, then the sooner the better.

If we try to time the market for an optimal entry point, it doesn't work. What if the next day it opens higher and keeps going up? What guarantee is there that there will be a lower price? You can always say - I should wait for XYZ month because prices tend to be lower then, or I should look at FED announcement dates, or I should consider the election or I should time it based on earnings announcements or I should wait for some point in the economic cycle or ....

You bought when you were ready to transact. I think that is correct.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by typical.investor »

placeholder wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:02 pm It tells you right there that they wouldn't do that and while those two funds are similar they are not in my opinion substantially identical and you can see the asset allocations below:

https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /31634R109
https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /315793828

You need to contact fidelity and ask them what caused the wash sale because I think there's essentially no way it's that roth purchase.
Before contacting Fidelity, look at Grabiner's post. Check your record of FFNOX and see if you had a wash sale on a previous purchase. I agree this is probably getting back the loss that was previously disallowed.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by colddeadfish »

typical.investor wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:05 pm
ralphboy wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:56 pm Also I put my order to buy my target date fund before the market opened and it bought it at closing. During the day, I saw the market was doing well and realized that I was going to end up buying at a higher price . In the future could I put in my order to buy a few minutes before the market closes? I guess it's not a huge deal but I could have had 7 more shares if I purchased at yesterday's price. (If I already asked this question in the thread, I apologize)


Yes, sure you can.

The thing is though, if we assume positive returns, then the sooner the better.

If we try to time the market for an optimal entry point, it doesn't work. What if the next day it opens higher and keeps going up? What guarantee is there that there will be a lower price? You can always say - I should wait for XYZ month because prices tend to be lower then, or I should look at FED announcement dates, or I should consider the election or I should time it based on earnings announcements or I should wait for some point in the economic cycle or ....

You bought when you were ready to transact. I think that is correct.


Agree, timing never works. I transferred most of my Roth from a TDF to a 3 fund at the end of 2021 (ATH) still 'down' from that BUT with previous gains I am still up. I fully funded my 2023 Roth on 1/3. TLH harvested some SCHB and reinvested in S&P 2 days ago. Right now it seems I'm a market timing genius, but no it is random luck. The best approach is to invest $ when you have it.

Cheers,
CDF
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ralphboy »

typical.investor wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:07 pm
placeholder wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:02 pm It tells you right there that they wouldn't do that and while those two funds are similar they are not in my opinion substantially identical and you can see the asset allocations below:

https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /31634R109
https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /315793828

You need to contact fidelity and ask them what caused the wash sale because I think there's essentially no way it's that roth purchase.
Before contacting Fidelity, look at Grabiner's post. Check your record of FFNOX and see if you had a wash sale on a previous purchase. I agree this is probably getting back the loss that was previously disallowed.
I don't see any blue w's for the other dates for FFNOX. I don't recall ever selling FFNOX and buying it again... unless it did it automatically with a dividend.

Anyways, is there something that I need to say to the person that does my taxes for me? I normally just print out the forms from fidelity and work and give it to her. I don't want to end up getting in trouble somehow/owing money. I don't really know what I'm doing now that I don't have a broker.

I see for tax forms it says I can expect 2: Form 5498 and Consolidated Form 1099. I guess I don't have to worry about the wash sale for my 2022 taxes?
Last edited by ralphboy on Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ralphboy »

colddeadfish wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:16 pm
typical.investor wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:05 pm
ralphboy wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:56 pm Also I put my order to buy my target date fund before the market opened and it bought it at closing. During the day, I saw the market was doing well and realized that I was going to end up buying at a higher price . In the future could I put in my order to buy a few minutes before the market closes? I guess it's not a huge deal but I could have had 7 more shares if I purchased at yesterday's price. (If I already asked this question in the thread, I apologize)


Yes, sure you can.

The thing is though, if we assume positive returns, then the sooner the better.

If we try to time the market for an optimal entry point, it doesn't work. What if the next day it opens higher and keeps going up? What guarantee is there that there will be a lower price? You can always say - I should wait for XYZ month because prices tend to be lower then, or I should look at FED announcement dates, or I should consider the election or I should time it based on earnings announcements or I should wait for some point in the economic cycle or ....

You bought when you were ready to transact. I think that is correct.


Agree, timing never works. I transferred most of my Roth from a TDF to a 3 fund at the end of 2021 (ATH) still 'down' from that BUT with previous gains I am still up. I fully funded my 2023 Roth on 1/3. TLH harvested some SCHB and reinvested in S&P 2 days ago. Right now it seems I'm a market timing genius, but no it is random luck. The best approach is to invest $ when you have it.

Cheers,
CDF


Next year for my roth I'll buy an extra 7 shares to make up for what I missed out on this year.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by grabiner »

ralphboy wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:28 pm
typical.investor wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:07 pm
placeholder wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:02 pm It tells you right there that they wouldn't do that and while those two funds are similar they are not in my opinion substantially identical and you can see the asset allocations below:

https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /31634R109
https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /315793828

You need to contact fidelity and ask them what caused the wash sale because I think there's essentially no way it's that roth purchase.
Before contacting Fidelity, look at Grabiner's post. Check your record of FFNOX and see if you had a wash sale on a previous purchase. I agree this is probably getting back the loss that was previously disallowed.
I don't see any blue w's for the other dates for FFNOX. I don't recall ever selling FFNOX and buying it again... unless it did it automatically with a dividend.

Anyways, is there something that I need to say to the person that does my taxes for me? I normally just print out the forms from fidelity and work and give it to her. I don't want to end up getting in trouble somehow/owing money. I don't really know what I'm doing now that I don't have a broker.
Your brokerage is required to adjust for wash sales of identical securities in the same account. For covered shares, your brokerage reports the sale proceeds and basis on a Form 1099-B, both to you and to the IRS. Thus, if your wash sale was created by a reinvested dividend, your Form 1099-B will be correct.

If you have some other type of wash sale (for example, you sold in a taxable account, and you bought the same fund in an IRA, or your spouse bought it), you will have to tell your tax preparer to make the adjustment by reporting the sale properly on Form 8949. Form 8949 is the form on which you report each individual capital gain or loss, and any adjustment to the reported numbers.
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by ralphboy »

Should I set it so my dividends get deposited into my core account instead of being reinvested in the securities? I think I have under $2,000 worth of FFNOX to sell next year and I have 2 other investments in my brokerage account that I will be selling in the future. I would rather just use the money from the dividends to buy more of the roth target date fund. I guess there isn't an easier way to do this other than move the cash from the core account to the roth and then buy more FDEWX?
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Re: Poor Publix employee seeking 401k investment advice - no longer have Publix stock

Post by placeholder »

ralphboy wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:58 am Should I set it so my dividends get deposited into my core account instead of being reinvested in the securities? I think I have under $2,000 worth of FFNOX to sell next year and I have 2 other investments in my brokerage account that I will be selling in the future. I would rather just use the money from the dividends to buy more of the roth target date fund. I guess there isn't an easier way to do this other than move the cash from the core account to the roth and then buy more FDEWX?
If you have the same or substantially identical funds in iras and taxable then that's probably a good idea or you could just not have those problems.
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