Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Post Reply
Topic Author
scottgekko
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:02 am

Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by scottgekko »

Wanted to get some thoughts on what my company policy is for air travel.

The policy lists the flight class for all employees for any flights as Economy Plus.
For VP/Sr Director and up (which I fall into), it states for any flights >1800 miles, flight class is Business Class

The next level is for Executives, which lists all flights as Business / First Class.

So my question is, for flights >1800 miles, what is defined as Business Class for domestic US flights if the starting approved flight class is Economy Plus?
Is it domestic First Class? Or does it not really even exist as airlines don't have business class for domestic flights?
User avatar
ResearchMed
Posts: 16795
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:25 pm

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by ResearchMed »

scottgekko wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 5:03 pm Wanted to get some thoughts on what my company policy is for air travel.

The policy lists the flight class for all employees for any flights as Economy Plus.
For VP/Sr Director and up (which I fall into), it states for any flights >1800 miles, flight class is Business Class

The next level is for Executives, which lists all flights as Business / First Class.

So my question is, for flights >1800 miles, what is defined as Business Class for domestic US flights if the starting approved flight class is Economy Plus?
Is it domestic First Class? Or does it not really even exist as airlines don't have business class for domestic flights?
If there IS a "business class", then that's obviously fine.

If not, then shouldn't you check with the group that manages this, or whomever should be asked?
If you choose anything other than a flavor of "coach", and it isn't labeled "Business", answering questions about your choice with, "Well, folks on the Internet said to use First"... probably not so good...

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
Geologist
Posts: 3057
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:35 pm

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by Geologist »

I agree with ResearchMed. If you truly want to know your company's travel policy, you need to ask within the company. Asking here will not get you a workable answer.
ralph124cf
Posts: 2985
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:41 am

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by ralph124cf »

I believe that on United domestic flights the class is called "Business First".

Ralph
eric321
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:49 pm

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by eric321 »

Domestic first class books into international business fare buckets.

Your corporate travel site should be able to flag what is in policy vs out of policy.
DoubleComma
Posts: 2066
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:23 pm

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by DoubleComma »

Don't overthink this...If Business Class exists, which is very rare on domestic flights, and you flight is greater than 1800 miles (essentially no connections) then you would be qualified to book in that class. Otherwise you are booking economy plus.
FinanceGeek
Posts: 989
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:27 pm

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by FinanceGeek »

I've yet to work for a company that allowed employees to book their flights from anything except one specific travel "partner".

They will know your rank from your traveler profile, so ask them!
muffins14
Posts: 5528
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:14 am
Location: New York

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by muffins14 »

You could just choose to act in the best interest of your company.

Will your performance at this meeting or whatever be meaningfully better if you spend $1000 on business class and have 3 extra inches of legroom rather than spending $400?
Crom laughs at your Four Winds
User avatar
ResearchMed
Posts: 16795
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:25 pm

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by ResearchMed »

muffins14 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:05 pm You could just choose to act in the best interest of your company.

Will your performance at this meeting or whatever be meaningfully better if you spend $1000 on business class and have 3 extra inches of legroom rather than spending $400?
I would be exceedingly cautious about doing this unless the ticket already complied with corporate policy.
Why would they have a policy if employees could just declare that they decided it would somehow be "better" to violate the policy?
:annoyed

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
muffins14
Posts: 5528
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:14 am
Location: New York

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by muffins14 »

ResearchMed wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:10 pm
muffins14 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:05 pm You could just choose to act in the best interest of your company.

Will your performance at this meeting or whatever be meaningfully better if you spend $1000 on business class and have 3 extra inches of legroom rather than spending $400?
I would be exceedingly cautious about doing this unless the ticket already complied with corporate policy.
Why would they have a policy if employees could just declare that they decided it would somehow be "better" to violate the policy?
:annoyed

RM

I’m stating that spending less should be OK, not that you should spend more

I doubt that the policy says you are forced to buy business class when economy is an option, or that you have to buy first class if you are an exec, and you’re not allowed to fly economy instead. What company would not prefer to save money on travel?
Crom laughs at your Four Winds
marcopolo
Posts: 8445
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:22 am

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by marcopolo »

muffins14 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:14 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:10 pm
muffins14 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:05 pm You could just choose to act in the best interest of your company.

Will your performance at this meeting or whatever be meaningfully better if you spend $1000 on business class and have 3 extra inches of legroom rather than spending $400?
I would be exceedingly cautious about doing this unless the ticket already complied with corporate policy.
Why would they have a policy if employees could just declare that they decided it would somehow be "better" to violate the policy?
:annoyed

RM

I’m stating that spending less should be OK, not that you should spend more

I doubt that the policy says you are forced to buy business class when economy is an option, or that you have to buy first class if you are an exec, and you’re not allowed to fly economy instead. What company would not prefer to save money on travel?
Flying in better class is essentially part of you compensation as you earn promotions in these cases.
Do you turn down raises or larger bonuses when you get promoted? After all, that would be in the best interest of the company.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
hunoraut
Posts: 1743
Joined: Sun May 31, 2020 11:39 am

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by hunoraut »

muffins14 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:05 pm You could just choose to act in the best interest of your company.

Will your performance at this meeting or whatever be meaningfully better if you spend $1000 on business class and have 3 extra inches of legroom rather than spending $400?
The best interest of the company was already determined when they established what is an appropriate benefits/policy for their employees. (though its odd an employee that senior would take to asking strangers how it works…)

US domestic first class is the rough equivalent of Business, for ticketing and differentiation purposes. (BusinessFirst is a defunct longhaul Business-class product from Continental, subsumed into United. It was a marketing ploy used when most competitors had 3 cabins (Eco/Biz/F) and they only had 2 (Eco/BF).

There are very few US Domestic flights longer than 1800mi anyway, so discussion is mostly moot.
User avatar
8foot7
Posts: 4427
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:29 pm

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by 8foot7 »

Lots of overthinking here. The policy obviously means domestic first class for flights longer than 1,800 miles since it calls out Economy Plus specifically in other areas. If the intent had been for Economy Plus to be the rule, then they'd have said Economy Plus for that part of the rule. Additionally, some US airlines have renamed their front cabin on narrowbody domestic plans Business (American, among perhaps others).

For the poster who thought tickets should be bought in (presumably what the employee in a single instance without other context thinks) the company's best interest, companies often negotiate volume discounts with airlines, sometimes on certain routes, sometimes on total dollar amounts of travel purchased, and sometimes both. If the thresholds for those negotiated discounts aren't met, then many times the discounts are lost, either in the current program year or in years following. Your "attempting" to save $400 on a ticket may contribute to costing the company thousands, if not tens of thousands, of dollars on the overall travel program through lost discounts and being more poorly positioned to negotiate.

The policies are built with a lot of things in mind. It's not your place, nor I suspect did anyone ask you, to question them. Accept the policy, book within it, move on with your life.
User avatar
SmileyFace
Posts: 9184
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:11 am

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by SmileyFace »

hunoraut wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 4:18 am
There are very few US Domestic flights longer than 1800mi anyway, so discussion is mostly moot.
There are lots of coast to coast flights >1800 miles. If the OP lives in Boston and routinely flights to any West Coast cities (SFO, Seattle, LAX, etc.) flights are all >1800 miles. I am guessing discussion is not moot for OP thus the question.

Agree with others - ask T&E department.
Generous travel policy allowing all to use economy plus - rare these days. And then having a class based system based upon level - also getting rare.
User avatar
oldcomputerguy
Moderator
Posts: 17934
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:50 am
Location: Tennessee

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by oldcomputerguy »

A snarky post was removed. As a reminder, see: General Etiquette
We expect this forum to be a place where people can feel comfortable asking questions and where debates and discussions are conducted in civil tones. ... At all times we must conduct ourselves in a respectful manner to other posters.
There is only one success - to be able to spend your life in your own way. (Christopher Morley)
User avatar
galawdawg
Posts: 5231
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:59 am
Location: Georgia

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by galawdawg »

Geologist wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 5:12 pm I agree with ResearchMed. If you truly want to know your company's travel policy, you need to ask within the company. Asking here will not get you a workable answer.
Agree. Why not get it "straight from the horse's mouth" instead of asking a bunch of internet strangers to speculate?
Jack FFR1846
Posts: 18502
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:05 am
Location: 26 miles, 385 yards west of Copley Square

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Check with your boss. They're the one who has to sign off, right?

There's plenty of ambiguity in the policy. There are flights that don't have business class that are over 1800 miles. There are airlines that don't have economy plus anywhere.

Some have pointed out that you should take one for the team and downgrade to economy from business to save the company money. I worked for one company where other engineers did this and their higher ups rejected their expense reports saying that if the powers that be saw that they were flying sardine class and not complaining then they might be expected to downgrade in the future. Ask your boss. You don't want to sacrifice and end up having your expense report rejected.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid
Jags4186
Posts: 8198
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:12 pm

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by Jags4186 »

muffins14 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:05 pm You could just choose to act in the best interest of your company.

Will your performance at this meeting or whatever be meaningfully better if you spend $1000 on business class and have 3 extra inches of legroom rather than spending $400?
Funny, I typically choose to act in the best interest of myself. I’m sure the company would love if I worked for free as well.

I suspect that at competitive companies their employees can fly business so in order to retain talent they have to offer a similar level of benefits. It’s not out for he goodness of the CEO’s heart that they have travel rules that allow employees to buy luxuries.
Last edited by Jags4186 on Wed May 25, 2022 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
muffins14
Posts: 5528
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:14 am
Location: New York

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by muffins14 »

I guess I was wrong on this one
Crom laughs at your Four Winds
muffins14
Posts: 5528
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:14 am
Location: New York

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by muffins14 »

Jags4186 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 7:51 am
muffins14 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:05 pm You could just choose to act in the best interest of your company.

Will your performance at this meeting or whatever be meaningfully better if you spend $1000 on business class and have 3 extra inches of legroom rather than spending $400?
Funny, I typically choose to act in the best interest of myself. I’m sure the company would love if I worked for free as well.
Obviously giving up your salary is different than choosing economy vs business class for a flight
Crom laughs at your Four Winds
dbr
Posts: 46181
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:50 am

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by dbr »

The specification is ambiguous so you are going to have to ask.

Different airlines give different names to classes of service not all of which exist at all airlines or on all routes of a given airline.

Delta, for example, has six classes of service, none of which are called business or economy plus. United has three classes of service with no economy plus and one called business/first. There is also such a thing as International first which is completely different from domestic first. British Airways offers Economy, Premium Economy, Business, and First.

Most often the sorting out comes according to whether or not the trip is Domestic or International. Similar distinctions are made in Europe but with different names. There are rare cases where international equipment is used on domestic routes enabling some odd fare classes.
jebmke
Posts: 25475
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by jebmke »

muffins14 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 7:52 am I guess I was wrong on this one
Not necessarily. I was able to fly business on frequent trans Atlantic trips. I often elected economy on the Brussels to Chicago leg because it was significantly less expensive and I wasn't planning to sleep on this leg.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
jebmke
Posts: 25475
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by jebmke »

FinanceGeek wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 9:46 pm I've yet to work for a company that allowed employees to book their flights from anything except one specific travel "partner".

They will know your rank from your traveler profile, so ask them!
We had an outsourced "travel desk." You didn't have a lot of flexibility - they called the shots. Even specific airlines; despite the appearance of identical fares, the preferred airlines were rebating significant money back that the traveler never saw so normally the traveler had little say. Same for hotels and rental cars to some extent.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
hunoraut
Posts: 1743
Joined: Sun May 31, 2020 11:39 am

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by hunoraut »

muffins14 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 7:53 am Obviously giving up your salary is different than choosing economy vs business class for a flight
What about discretionary bonus? Or company-supplied car? Or housing and relocation assistance? Or company-sponsored medical or retirement plans (vs private IRA / ACA plans)?
hunoraut
Posts: 1743
Joined: Sun May 31, 2020 11:39 am

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by hunoraut »

dbr wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 7:59 am The specification is ambiguous so you are going to have to ask.

Different airlines give different names to classes of service not all of which exist at all airlines or on all routes of a given airline.

Delta, for example, has six classes of service, none of which are called business or economy plus. United has three classes of service with no economy plus and one called business/first. There is also such a thing as International first which is completely different from domestic first. British Airways offers Economy, Premium Economy, Business, and First.

Most often the sorting out comes according to whether or not the trip is Domestic or International. Similar distinctions are made in Europe but with different names. There are rare cases where international equipment is used on domestic routes enabling some odd fare classes.
They're not that ambiguous. The name can be misleading, but the industry standardizes on fare codes (e.g. F vs J vs Y) and cross-airline booking tools and agreements.
jebmke
Posts: 25475
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by jebmke »

hunoraut wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:42 am
muffins14 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 7:53 am Obviously giving up your salary is different than choosing economy vs business class for a flight
What about discretionary bonus? Or company-supplied car? Or housing and relocation assistance? Or company-sponsored medical or retirement plans (vs private IRA / ACA plans)?
All part of compensation. Some treated differently for tax purposes (e.g company supplied car is taxable income to the extent that it is used for personal use. My housing and relocation assistance appeared on my W2 - that was one of several items that were reconciling entries when I reconciled my December 31 pay advice to my W-2). Even medical, HSA and many retirement plans appear as an informational item on a W2.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
muffins14
Posts: 5528
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:14 am
Location: New York

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by muffins14 »

hunoraut wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:42 am
muffins14 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 7:53 am Obviously giving up your salary is different than choosing economy vs business class for a flight
What about discretionary bonus? Or company-supplied car? Or housing and relocation assistance? Or company-sponsored medical or retirement plans (vs private IRA / ACA plans)?
This is derailing the topic. My personal choice would be that I would accept all of the above (minus the car, because I do not desire one),because money is good. But for flying speficically, I really (personally) do not see the value-add of being in economy plus for 4 hours rather than economy. Same goes for first class. I would however expense my transportation to the airport, meals while traveling etc. I would also expense the hotel, but I would stay in something that was like a Hyatt rather than the Four Seasons, again because I think some things are unnecessary for me. Cash or cash equivalents (access to retirement healthcare), however, hold more value because it's something I would actually use and get value from.

I feel like some things are just expensive the sake of being expensive, but the experience is not miles ahead, like first class flights
Crom laughs at your Four Winds
dbr
Posts: 46181
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:50 am

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by dbr »

hunoraut wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:45 am
dbr wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 7:59 am The specification is ambiguous so you are going to have to ask.

Different airlines give different names to classes of service not all of which exist at all airlines or on all routes of a given airline.

Delta, for example, has six classes of service, none of which are called business or economy plus. United has three classes of service with no economy plus and one called business/first. There is also such a thing as International first which is completely different from domestic first. British Airways offers Economy, Premium Economy, Business, and First.

Most often the sorting out comes according to whether or not the trip is Domestic or International. Similar distinctions are made in Europe but with different names. There are rare cases where international equipment is used on domestic routes enabling some odd fare classes.
They're not that ambiguous. The name can be misleading, but the industry standardizes on fare codes (e.g. F vs J vs Y) and cross-airline booking tools and agreements.
Maybe, maybe not. Here is the Delta fare chart: https://cwsi.net/delta.htm#:~:text=Delt ... %20rows%20

Delta uses all 26 letters of the alphabet in their chart. It is true that fare codes are different from fare classes.

And here is the list that is presented if booking on line, which would be the fare classes.

Basic Economy
Main Cabin
Delta Comfort+
First Class
Delta Premium Select
Delta One

Probably we can assume Delta Comfort + is premium economy and Delta One is business, but we still don't know what to do with a greater than 1800 mile domestic travel. It is an implication that First Class is allowed but the guidance does not say so. In my experience that jump for that distance would not be typical.

There are some other interesting differences. Y is full fare economy and M is upgradeable domestic economy which in both cases are Main Cabin on Delta. A difference I often experienced was that much travel was not planned exactly until shortly beforehand and that often resulted in only Y fares being available and that brings the condition that almost always we were upgraded to First while an M ticket would not result in that. Y is much more expensive than M. On the selection of flights one sees such things as Main(H) at $718, Main(M) at $778, or Main(Y) at $1267, and so on.
hunoraut
Posts: 1743
Joined: Sun May 31, 2020 11:39 am

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by hunoraut »

dbr wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:57 am
Different airlines give different names to classes of service not all of which exist at all airlines or on all routes of a given airline.

Delta, for example, has six classes of service, none of which are called business or economy plus. United has three classes of service with no economy plus and one called business/first.

Maybe, maybe not. Here is the Delta fare chart: https://cwsi.net/delta.htm#:~:text=Delt ... %20rows%20

Delta uses all 26 letters of the alphabet in their chart. It is true that fare codes are different from fare classes.

And here is the list that is presented if booking on line, which would be the fare classes.

Basic Economy
Main Cabin
Delta Comfort+
First Class
Delta Premium Select
Delta One
The classes of services are fairly easy to understand for frequent travelers and travel departments writing and policing policies.

There are not 6 classes of service - those are marketing inflation and conflation of 3 primary/archetypic classes of services.

The 26 booking codes are used for subdifferentiation of each service. e.g. Economy has a different letter for fully refundable, partially refundable, barebones, or award seats. For sake of flying, they place traveler in an Economy seat.

For sake of corporate policy, it should be thought of in terms of the seat/service (standard, larger, largest). Those 3 translate to 3 industry model of Eco/Biz/First (although transitioning into Eco/PremiumEco/Biz).

It would be impractical to write down all the myriads of airline specific name carriers come up with (“la premiere”, “suites”, “signature”, “comfort”, etc). Most people know what they work out to. And those who don’t, should simply let the corporate travel agent do the booking.
User avatar
Kenkat
Posts: 9549
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:18 am
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by Kenkat »

At my company, the corporate booking site tells you if a flight complies with the corporate policies. If yes, you are good to book on your own; if not, it is routed for approval first (if you decide to proceed).

Have you tried going through the booking process to see if it provides any guidance?
User avatar
hand
Posts: 2201
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 8:42 pm

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by hand »

You're a business person right? If so, any seat you choose can be properly described as Business Class.

Alternately ask whoever is responsible for interpreting and enforcing the policy. Theirs is the only interpretation that matters.
Big Dog
Posts: 4608
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:12 pm

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by Big Dog »

8foot7 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 6:06 am Lots of overthinking here. The policy obviously means domestic first class for flights longer than 1,800 miles since it calls out Economy Plus specifically in other areas. If the intent had been for Economy Plus to be the rule, then they'd have said Economy Plus for that part of the rule. Additionally, some US airlines have renamed their front cabin on narrowbody domestic plans Business (American, among perhaps others).

For the poster who thought tickets should be bought in (presumably what the employee in a single instance without other context thinks) the company's best interest, companies often negotiate volume discounts with airlines, sometimes on certain routes, sometimes on total dollar amounts of travel purchased, and sometimes both. If the thresholds for those negotiated discounts aren't met, then many times the discounts are lost, either in the current program year or in years following. Your "attempting" to save $400 on a ticket may contribute to costing the company thousands, if not tens of thousands, of dollars on the overall travel program through lost discounts and being more poorly positioned to negotiate.

The policies are built with a lot of things in mind. It's not your place, nor I suspect did anyone ask you, to question them. Accept the policy, book within it, move on with your life.
Uh, no it certainly does not. If HR wanted the policy to say 'First Class when Business Class is unavailable', they would have written it that way. And yes, United does offer Business class on some coast-to-coast routes.
User avatar
8foot7
Posts: 4427
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:29 pm

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by 8foot7 »

Big Dog wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 11:24 am
8foot7 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 6:06 am Lots of overthinking here. The policy obviously means domestic first class for flights longer than 1,800 miles since it calls out Economy Plus specifically in other areas. If the intent had been for Economy Plus to be the rule, then they'd have said Economy Plus for that part of the rule. Additionally, some US airlines have renamed their front cabin on narrowbody domestic plans Business (American, among perhaps others).

For the poster who thought tickets should be bought in (presumably what the employee in a single instance without other context thinks) the company's best interest, companies often negotiate volume discounts with airlines, sometimes on certain routes, sometimes on total dollar amounts of travel purchased, and sometimes both. If the thresholds for those negotiated discounts aren't met, then many times the discounts are lost, either in the current program year or in years following. Your "attempting" to save $400 on a ticket may contribute to costing the company thousands, if not tens of thousands, of dollars on the overall travel program through lost discounts and being more poorly positioned to negotiate.

The policies are built with a lot of things in mind. It's not your place, nor I suspect did anyone ask you, to question them. Accept the policy, book within it, move on with your life.
Uh, no it certainly does not. If HR wanted the policy to say 'First Class when Business Class is unavailable', they would have written it that way. And yes, United does offer Business class on some coast-to-coast routes.
Completely disagree, and like someone above said, those who travel regularly understand these differences and the policy is plain in its nature to them. The realistic, logical result of reading the policy as narrowly as you do is that there is essentially no business class travel domestically. Unless the poster is flying from/to NYC-SFO or NYC-LAX, consistently available three-class+ domestic travel with a distinct first, business, and coach cabin is virtually non-existent. Again, this isn't rocket science and I'd certainly expect my senior director-level employees to have enough familiarity with this to one, not have these questions and two, figure it out themselves.
Big Dog
Posts: 4608
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:12 pm

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by Big Dog »

8foot7 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 11:37 am
Big Dog wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 11:24 am
8foot7 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 6:06 am Lots of overthinking here. The policy obviously means domestic first class for flights longer than 1,800 miles since it calls out Economy Plus specifically in other areas. If the intent had been for Economy Plus to be the rule, then they'd have said Economy Plus for that part of the rule. Additionally, some US airlines have renamed their front cabin on narrowbody domestic plans Business (American, among perhaps others).

For the poster who thought tickets should be bought in (presumably what the employee in a single instance without other context thinks) the company's best interest, companies often negotiate volume discounts with airlines, sometimes on certain routes, sometimes on total dollar amounts of travel purchased, and sometimes both. If the thresholds for those negotiated discounts aren't met, then many times the discounts are lost, either in the current program year or in years following. Your "attempting" to save $400 on a ticket may contribute to costing the company thousands, if not tens of thousands, of dollars on the overall travel program through lost discounts and being more poorly positioned to negotiate.

The policies are built with a lot of things in mind. It's not your place, nor I suspect did anyone ask you, to question them. Accept the policy, book within it, move on with your life.
Uh, no it certainly does not. If HR wanted the policy to say 'First Class when Business Class is unavailable', they would have written it that way. And yes, United does offer Business class on some coast-to-coast routes.
Completely disagree, and like someone above said, those who travel regularly understand these differences and the policy is plain in its nature to them. The realistic, logical result of reading the policy as narrowly as you do is that there is essentially no business class travel domestically. Unless the poster is flying from/to NYC-SFO or NYC-LAX, consistently available three-class+ domestic travel with a distinct first, business, and coach cabin is virtually non-existent. Again, this isn't rocket science and I'd certainly expect my senior director-level employees to have enough familiarity with this to one, not have these questions and two, figure it out themselves.
Doesn't matter what regular travelers think; and, they certainly should not be figuring it out for 'themselves'. The travel policy is a legal document produced by HR and/or company controller. Any non-compliance of the written policy, even if poorly written, can be cause for termination.

I would pose the question to HR/Controller bcos only they can respond to intent.
User avatar
ResearchMed
Posts: 16795
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:25 pm

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by ResearchMed »

scottgekko wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 5:03 pm Wanted to get some thoughts on what my company policy is for air travel.

The policy lists the flight class for all employees for any flights as Economy Plus.
For VP/Sr Director and up (which I fall into), it states for any flights >1800 miles, flight class is Business Class

The next level is for Executives, which lists all flights as Business / First Class.

So my question is, for flights >1800 miles, what is defined as Business Class for domestic US flights if the starting approved flight class is Economy Plus?
Is it domestic First Class? Or does it not really even exist as airlines don't have business class for domestic flights?
Back to the beginning ^^ questions from OP:

What is the point of bickering about "what the company policy is about which ticket class to get" for a particular flights (or equivalent flights?
Why is everyone trying to read the minds of some corporate decision maker(s)?

Just ask.
Full stop.


Discussing/arguing here on some anonymous Internet forum for OP to use about what the company meant or if X would be allowed... :confused

If the flight class/category/label doesn't explicitly meet the written policy, then ... ask.

There was another thread some months ago (but time flies, so how long ago, I'm not sure :wink: ) where this very issue came up. Some of the same arguments were used, including some we haven't (yet?) gotten to. One of those was whether the reason the company specifies something like J (business) or F for some (executives) or all employees might be because the company wants employees to arrive refreshed and ready to conduct business in an alert/etc., fashion.
That led to bickering discussion about what if someone couldn't sleep on a flight even in J or whether overnight flights should be avoided, and on and on.

Several reasons for the policy have been suggested, but we don't actually know if any of them are correct. Perhaps the current managers no longer remember the specific reasons.
But the policy is there, and written (not a rumor, etc.).

Ask the manager or the person/department who usually make travel arrangements if there is any ambiguity for any particular trip.

Surely this time can be better used here instead to help us all decide whether the market is heading up or down.
Or whether one should lump sum or dollar cost average...?
Perhaps we should now discuss which of those two topics should be selected to use up the time..... :twisted:
Or others could nominate different topics for consideration here. :wink:

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
hunoraut
Posts: 1743
Joined: Sun May 31, 2020 11:39 am

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by hunoraut »

8foot7 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 11:37 am Completely disagree, and like someone above said, those who travel regularly understand these differences and the policy is plain in its nature to them. The realistic, logical result of reading the policy as narrowly as you do is that there is essentially no business class travel domestically. Unless the poster is flying from/to NYC-SFO or NYC-LAX, consistently available three-class+ domestic travel with a distinct first, business, and coach cabin is virtually non-existent. Again, this isn't rocket science and I'd certainly expect my senior director-level employees to have enough familiarity with this to one, not have these questions and two, figure it out themselves.
To add a funny wrinkle to it, on the Austrian national rail, the tier of compartments go Economy -> First Class -> Business Class

But travelers know how to 'properly' translate these products <--> policy. And those who don't can simply ask.

Unless we're attorneys arguing over law, pedantry almost incurs the cost of common sense!
DarkHelmetII
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:25 pm

Re: Deciphering Company Travel Policy

Post by DarkHelmetII »

scottgekko wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 5:03 pm Wanted to get some thoughts on what my company policy is for air travel.

The policy lists the flight class for all employees for any flights as Economy Plus.
For VP/Sr Director and up (which I fall into), it states for any flights >1800 miles, flight class is Business Class

The next level is for Executives, which lists all flights as Business / First Class.

So my question is, for flights >1800 miles, what is defined as Business Class for domestic US flights if the starting approved flight class is Economy Plus?
Is it domestic First Class? Or does it not really even exist as airlines don't have business class for domestic flights?
My experiences:
1) Economy plus is a standard economy seat but with extra legroom, either because seats are spaced further apart or is a "special" seat such as bulkhead or exit row. Incremental cost is anywhere from $20 or $30 to possibly $200+ on a 12 hours overseas flight. But you are at most talking a few hundred dollars not thousands.
2) Business Class is a common booking class domestically and for long-haul international, but the actual seat can vary widely. Domestically in US, most "legacy" airlines (e.g., American, Delta, United) have a business class seat that is like a recliner chair with a little bit more elbow room and more legroom from Economy. Meal / drink service is an upgraded experience. In some markets / flights (e.g. often on transcontinental routes especially redeyes) there will be a lie flat or similar but I'd say that's more an exception than the rule domestically.
3) Long-haul International business class on many airlines will have the lie flat seats but there are exceptions. If you have a 2,000 mile domestic day time flight doesn't really matter but if you are flying to Australia definitely study the seat type and make sure you get a high quality lie flat business seat.
4) Relatively new to the market is Premium Economy which is between Economy Plus and Business. But this is where things get further confusing ... generally speaking, an international Premium Economy seat will be similar to the common Domestic Business class seat where it is the recliner chair variant (as opposed to the much less frequent although existent lie flat domestic business class seat found in some markets).
Post Reply