Debating an electric zero turn mower
Debating an electric zero turn mower
I have made the switch to all Ego yard tools: 21" self-propelled lawn mower, edger, trimmer, blower, chain saw and self-propelled snow blower. The Ego version costs about 40% more than the gas equivalent, but it is so worth not having to deal with gas and maintenance. The EGO has been great. I have five batteries now that keep everything running without recharging in the middle of a job.
But now I want a riding mower. EGO sells a zero turn electric for $5500 which is again, a 40% premium over an equivalent zero turn. But I don't really need a zero turn. A regular riding mower would work fine and the small ones can be had for $2000. So now the EGO is a 125% premium over what I need. And I can get a decent used riding mower for $1000. That $5500 price tag is getting hard to justify.
But I hate gas equipment. I still have a gas pressure washer for heavy duty needs. Also have a gas backup generator. There is not a suitable electric alternative for these items, although I do have a small electric pressure washer for smaller duty. I use only ethenal free gas in them which really helps with the maintenance / reliability.
I'm not sure I want a gas riding mower, though, when a suitable electric replacement is available.
Anyone made the switch to an electric riding mower?
But now I want a riding mower. EGO sells a zero turn electric for $5500 which is again, a 40% premium over an equivalent zero turn. But I don't really need a zero turn. A regular riding mower would work fine and the small ones can be had for $2000. So now the EGO is a 125% premium over what I need. And I can get a decent used riding mower for $1000. That $5500 price tag is getting hard to justify.
But I hate gas equipment. I still have a gas pressure washer for heavy duty needs. Also have a gas backup generator. There is not a suitable electric alternative for these items, although I do have a small electric pressure washer for smaller duty. I use only ethenal free gas in them which really helps with the maintenance / reliability.
I'm not sure I want a gas riding mower, though, when a suitable electric replacement is available.
Anyone made the switch to an electric riding mower?
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
$5500 would pay for about 5 to 10 years of lawn service for me.
Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
I'm not sure that I would get an electric rider, especially not at that price. As livesoft said, that price would pay for a lot of lawn service for me. Is the self-propelled mower not adequate for your yard size?
Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
$40/wk * 4 weeks * 8 months = $2,000 / year for lawn service. So 2.75 years in my area.
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
The push mower is adequate, I am not. It's only 3/4 acre of grass, but I sure don't enjoy push mowing it in the heat.
Consistently sets low goals and fails to achieve them.
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
If it's the oil changes that put you off gas, it might be worth mentioning many John Deere mowers offer an easy change oil system where you just swap a canister out. I have had a John Deere E120 since 2018 that I've been happy with.
The only electric mower I have experience with is a Ryobi push mower. The construction was cheap with many plastic parts that broke off, which soured me on the brand. Had no problem with the actual battery technology though.
The only electric mower I have experience with is a Ryobi push mower. The construction was cheap with many plastic parts that broke off, which soured me on the brand. Had no problem with the actual battery technology though.
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
Sell your electric push mower and get an electric self-propelled mower. I can mow my yard one-handed.
Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
The one I have is self-propelled.
Consistently sets low goals and fails to achieve them.
Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
Don't really mind the oil changes as those are just once a year. I love how quiet the electric equipment is and no gas to buy all the time. I guess I could mention the zero emissions thing, too.homebuyer6426 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 8:31 am If it's the oil changes that put you off gas, it might be worth mentioning many John Deere mowers offer an easy change oil system where you just swap a canister out. I have had a John Deere E120 since 2018 that I've been happy with.
The only electric mower I have experience with is a Ryobi push mower. The construction was cheap with many plastic parts that broke off, which soured me on the brand. Had no problem with the actual battery technology though.
I have a 5 gal gas can with ethanol free gas in it and it has lasted me over a year so far as it just runs the pressure washer. Have not had to use the gas generator, yet.
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
I have switched to a mostly electric tools (weed trimmer, hedge trimmer, blower, etc), but stil have the gas rider, gas snowblower and gas generator. Sorry I just don't see electrics keeping up for acre+ yards and 100ft driveways with a foot+ of snow... yet.
I honestly don't see the gas as such a hassle, other than having to deal with premix for the old timmer and chainsaws. I just use regular E10 pump gas, treat with stabil and toss the leftover in the car if it sits more than 6 months. Ive never had any small engine problems that where caused by the ethanol. Maintenance takes about an hour a year to change the oil and filters in both machines.
I honestly don't see the gas as such a hassle, other than having to deal with premix for the old timmer and chainsaws. I just use regular E10 pump gas, treat with stabil and toss the leftover in the car if it sits more than 6 months. Ive never had any small engine problems that where caused by the ethanol. Maintenance takes about an hour a year to change the oil and filters in both machines.
Last edited by jharkin on Tue May 17, 2022 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
We love our Ryobi electric zero turn mower and will never go back to gas. We have model RY48ZTR100 purchased from Home Depot a couple of years ago. We have 1 acre to mow and typically have around 40% battery life remaining when we finish. This mower is incredibly fast. You will love an electric zero turn mower. Go for it!
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
The quieter running is an advantage. Note that they're not really zero emission unless your electricity source is zero emission.
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
Within a few years I think cordless electric mowers will have better algorithms and be completely robotic so that you don't have to baby sit them while they mow your lawn. I would not buy a riding mower at the present time.
Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
I have a JD that uses that system. I believe that costs about $50 for the swap out and only "changes" less than 1/2 of the oil. You can buy a "conversion kit" (with 2 qts of oil, filter and piping) for about $30, and subsequent changes should cost less than $10.homebuyer6426 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 8:31 am If it's the oil changes that put you off gas, it might be worth mentioning many John Deere mowers offer an easy change oil system where you just swap a canister out. I have had a John Deere E120 since 2018 that I've been happy with.
The only electric mower I have experience with is a Ryobi push mower. The construction was cheap with many plastic parts that broke off, which soured me on the brand. Had no problem with the actual battery technology though.
Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
Check with your local electric company.... Mine has a small rebate for electric/battery operated lawn equipment (same place that sells cheaper light bulbs etc).
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
Some considerations I would have:
1. What is the battery life expectancy, and what warranties come on said batteries?
2. How much am I saving/mow or /week or /year in using the electric? This is different from an environmental consideration. If you are paying 2-3X on the front end, but spending similarly every time you use it as you would with gas, I would assume that one would have to be really into the environment aspect of the move (and even that can then be discussed further but I assume would become political).
1. What is the battery life expectancy, and what warranties come on said batteries?
2. How much am I saving/mow or /week or /year in using the electric? This is different from an environmental consideration. If you are paying 2-3X on the front end, but spending similarly every time you use it as you would with gas, I would assume that one would have to be really into the environment aspect of the move (and even that can then be discussed further but I assume would become political).
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
Yes. I personally like the ease of use, there are definitely many who consider it a waste of money though. Don't see $40/year for a $2000 machine a big deal.pshonore wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 10:18 amI have a JD that uses that system. I believe that costs about $50 for the swap out and only "changes" less than 1/2 of the oil. You can buy a "conversion kit" (with 2 qts of oil, filter and piping) for about $30, and subsequent changes should cost less than $10.homebuyer6426 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 8:31 am If it's the oil changes that put you off gas, it might be worth mentioning many John Deere mowers offer an easy change oil system where you just swap a canister out. I have had a John Deere E120 since 2018 that I've been happy with.
The only electric mower I have experience with is a Ryobi push mower. The construction was cheap with many plastic parts that broke off, which soured me on the brand. Had no problem with the actual battery technology though.
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
This is what I am considering. I get a 10% military discount, so with tax I save maybe $200.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/EGO-Dual-Hydro ... 5000200347
https://www.lowes.com/pd/EGO-Dual-Hydro ... 5000200347
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
How long does it take you to mow your yard with the 21" ego?
Mine takes 55 minutes. My Ego has self-propel, but I do not need it. My yard is flat.
If yours takes 2 hours and you don't have much to mow around, I'm sure the Ego zero turn is a nice machine. I sat on one at the local Ace.
If you are in the 1 hour range, the Zero Turn will be overkill. I still like the exercise of walking when mowing.
If you can afford it, buy it. Life is short. Inflation is eating your cash.
Mine takes 55 minutes. My Ego has self-propel, but I do not need it. My yard is flat.
If yours takes 2 hours and you don't have much to mow around, I'm sure the Ego zero turn is a nice machine. I sat on one at the local Ace.
If you are in the 1 hour range, the Zero Turn will be overkill. I still like the exercise of walking when mowing.
If you can afford it, buy it. Life is short. Inflation is eating your cash.
- lthenderson
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
What kind of lawn do you have? I ask because I have had both tractor type mowers and zero turn mowers and I wouldn't use either of them across the board.
Obviously if you have a lot of things to mow around, it is hard to beat a zero turn. But if you have much of a slope to your lawn, zero turns can be a huge hassle to use. They do not work well at all heading straight down a hill and can do a lot of sliding when on a slope. A tractor type will do much better in these situations but can't turn as tight. Years ago this was a no go but with hydrostatic drive and no gear shifting, it makes it much easier but it is still a lot slower mowing around objects than with a zero turn.
My 2 acre lawn has lots of trees and objects to mow around and virtually none of it is flat. I valued time and so I still went ahead with a zero turn mower but it takes a fair amount of skill to do on the slopes in a safe manner and I still find myself sliding around. I would never trust my teen to mow the lawn with it just from the safety aspect.
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
...try 750+ ft of drive to get to the road for 4 ft snow (or the 3 1/2 ft of the wet snow, when we got that), for the snowblower .... and a few acres for the rest... and definitely need the gas powered version of chain saws for the trees. The electric equipment just doesn't cut it for larger jobs.... much smaller residential areas might work.jharkin wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 8:48 am I have switched to a mostly electric tools (weed trimmer, hedge trimmer, blower, etc), but stil have the gas rider, gas snowblower and gas generator. Sorry I just don't see electrics keeping up for acre+ yards and 100ft driveways with a foot+ of snow... yet.
I honestly don't see the gas as such a hassle, other than having to deal with premix for the old timmer and chainsaws. I just use regular E10 pump gas, treat with stabil and toss the leftover in the car if it sits more than 6 months. Ive never had any small engine problems that where caused by the ethanol. Maintenance takes about an hour a year to change the oil and filters in both machines.
Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
Mine takes 40 minutes now but we just sodded the back yard which about doubles the amount to mow. I just went over and talked to my neighbor who has a gas powered zero turn for the same size yard. He loves it. I liked that he was mowing in his business clothes and it took him 20 minutes.bloom2708 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 11:41 am How long does it take you to mow your yard with the 21" ego?
Mine takes 55 minutes. My Ego has self-propel, but I do not need it. My yard is flat.
If yours takes 2 hours and you don't have much to mow around, I'm sure the Ego zero turn is a nice machine. I sat on one at the local Ace.
If you are in the 1 hour range, the Zero Turn will be overkill. I still like the exercise of walking when mowing.
If you can afford it, buy it. Life is short. Inflation is eating your cash.
It's a flat yard. Only a few trees to mow around.lthenderson wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 11:42 am What kind of lawn do you have? I ask because I have had both tractor type mowers and zero turn mowers and I wouldn't use either of them across the board.
Obviously if you have a lot of things to mow around, it is hard to beat a zero turn. But if you have much of a slope to your lawn, zero turns can be a huge hassle to use. They do not work well at all heading straight down a hill and can do a lot of sliding when on a slope. A tractor type will do much better in these situations but can't turn as tight. Years ago this was a no go but with hydrostatic drive and no gear shifting, it makes it much easier but it is still a lot slower mowing around objects than with a zero turn.
My 2 acre lawn has lots of trees and objects to mow around and virtually none of it is flat. I valued time and so I still went ahead with a zero turn mower but it takes a fair amount of skill to do on the slopes in a safe manner and I still find myself sliding around. I would never trust my teen to mow the lawn with it just from the safety aspect.
Definitely gas is the way to go for large jobs like that. Our driveway is 75ft x 12 ft. I only use the chain saw to clean out the back woods, although the back woods are now gone and it's all grass. The 18" electric Ego can chew through anything but it also chews through batteries.Nestegg_User wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 12:23 pm
...try 750+ ft of drive to get to the road for 4 ft snow (or the 3 1/2 ft of the wet snow, when we got that), for the snowblower .... and a few acres for the rest... and definitely need the gas powered version of chain saws for the trees. The electric equipment just doesn't cut it for larger jobs.... much smaller residential areas might work.
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
If there isn't much to mow around most of the benefit for the additional cost of a zero turn is lost. You might do just about as well with a regular riding mower for a lot less money, if that matters.
If you're wanting something that doesn't get you dirty you should probably be looking for something with a rear discharge.
If you're wanting something that doesn't get you dirty you should probably be looking for something with a rear discharge.
Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
The problem is there aren't any good electric riding mowers. I am leaning towards Ego because I have a lot of Ego tools and batteries already and all they make is a zero turn. If they made a non-zero turn riding mower, I think I would have already bought it. Ryobi makes one (and I think Greenworks) but now I have a different brand of batteries.Onlineid3089 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 12:55 pm If there isn't much to mow around most of the benefit for the additional cost of a zero turn is lost. You might do just about as well with a regular riding mower for a lot less money, if that matters.
If you're wanting something that doesn't get you dirty you should probably be looking for something with a rear discharge.
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
Makes sense, if you can keep in the same battery family there is a lot of value to that. I'd rather have Milwaukee or DeWalt cordless tools, but back when I first bought my house Black and Decker was about the only game in town for yard tools so that is what I'm locked into for 20v tools.corn18 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:02 pmThe problem is there aren't any good electric riding mowers. I am leaning towards Ego because I have a lot of Ego tools and batteries already and all they make is a zero turn. If they made a non-zero turn riding mower, I think I would have already bought it. Ryobi makes one (and I think Greenworks) but now I have a different brand of batteries.Onlineid3089 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 12:55 pm If there isn't much to mow around most of the benefit for the additional cost of a zero turn is lost. You might do just about as well with a regular riding mower for a lot less money, if that matters.
If you're wanting something that doesn't get you dirty you should probably be looking for something with a rear discharge.
Cub Cadet has started producing battery equipment, including a regular riding mower and a zero turn. I'd expect a decent product from them, but then you'd still have the different battery. And after looking, I'm not convinced their regular rider is enough cheaper to make it appealing vs the zero turn anyway.
If the Ego fits your budget, go ahead and grab it. I'm sure it's a nice machine and you already have a bunch of batteries which is always my biggest concern with cordless tools
Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
Man, I wish I could turn the clock back 10-15 years and tell my younger self to get the Milwaukee cordless tools. I have one in the form of a cordless socket driver and it is the cat's meow. Costs twice as much, but the battery is probably 1/3 the physical size of my Ryobi ones and that thing is a monster. I have debated replacing all my Ryobi One+ tools with Milwaukee, but my Ryobi ones just won't quit. I still stop at the Milwaukee display at Home Depot and ogle their tools, though.Onlineid3089 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:16 pmMakes sense, if you can keep in the same battery family there is a lot of value to that. I'd rather have Milwaukee or DeWalt cordless tools, but back when I first bought my house Black and Decker was about the only game in town for yard tools so that is what I'm locked into for 20v tools.corn18 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:02 pmThe problem is there aren't any good electric riding mowers. I am leaning towards Ego because I have a lot of Ego tools and batteries already and all they make is a zero turn. If they made a non-zero turn riding mower, I think I would have already bought it. Ryobi makes one (and I think Greenworks) but now I have a different brand of batteries.Onlineid3089 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 12:55 pm If there isn't much to mow around most of the benefit for the additional cost of a zero turn is lost. You might do just about as well with a regular riding mower for a lot less money, if that matters.
If you're wanting something that doesn't get you dirty you should probably be looking for something with a rear discharge.
Cub Cadet has started producing battery equipment, including a regular riding mower and a zero turn. I'd expect a decent product from them, but then you'd still have the different battery. And after looking, I'm not convinced their regular rider is enough cheaper to make it appealing vs the zero turn anyway.
If the Ego fits your budget, go ahead and grab it. I'm sure it's a nice machine and you already have a bunch of batteries which is always my biggest concern with cordless tools
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
I wouldn’t want an electric rider unless Tesla started making one. I have an Ego blower and trimmer and I love them. But one of the battery packs has degraded significantly. I’ve owned the blower for five years. Those batteries are extremely expensive to replace. I can only imagine how many batteries you might go through with a riding lawn mower.
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- lthenderson
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
If you can afford it, I personally would lean toward the zero turn for one reason. With a flat yard with only a few trees to mow around, you should be able to mow it extremely quickly and so with a battery as your source of power, perhaps it would last longer than if it took multiple charges to do the same lawn or had rugged terrain to otherwise add stress to the batteries. I have no experience with ECO but I do know I have switched over to battery operated DeWalt lawn equipment, blower and weed eater, and I don't think I will ever go back to two cycle engine stuff again. I went with DeWalt since all my cordless tools are also DeWalt.corn18 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 12:42 pmIt's a flat yard. Only a few trees to mow around.lthenderson wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 11:42 am What kind of lawn do you have? I ask because I have had both tractor type mowers and zero turn mowers and I wouldn't use either of them across the board.
Obviously if you have a lot of things to mow around, it is hard to beat a zero turn. But if you have much of a slope to your lawn, zero turns can be a huge hassle to use. They do not work well at all heading straight down a hill and can do a lot of sliding when on a slope. A tractor type will do much better in these situations but can't turn as tight. Years ago this was a no go but with hydrostatic drive and no gear shifting, it makes it much easier but it is still a lot slower mowing around objects than with a zero turn.
My 2 acre lawn has lots of trees and objects to mow around and virtually none of it is flat. I valued time and so I still went ahead with a zero turn mower but it takes a fair amount of skill to do on the slopes in a safe manner and I still find myself sliding around. I would never trust my teen to mow the lawn with it just from the safety aspect.
Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
Well, my wife came home and I mentioned the Ego ZTR again and she said order it. Will be delivered Friday. Yeah!
Here's all my other cordless stuff:
Here's all my other cordless stuff:
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
Electric lawnmowers have practically zero emissions compared to gasoline-powered lawnmowers. It's not exactly zero, but some of the emissions are 0% if you round to whole percentages. Some things, like particulates, are reduced to basis points.homebuyer6426 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 8:58 amThe quieter running is an advantage. Note that they're not really zero emission unless your electricity source is zero emission.
Most lawnmower engines have carburetors instead of fuel injectors, and small engines don't have the same emissions controls as automobile engines. The exhaust contains a lot of carbon monoxide, unburned hydrocarbons, and particulates -- the same pollutants that cars used to spew out in the 1970s.
In California, small engines are now causing more smog than cars! Automobile engines are getting cleaner, but small engines are not. Adding emissions controls to a lawnmower engine costs more than replacing it with an electric motor and a battery.
However, total smog-forming emissions from SORE already exceed emissions from light-duty passenger cars in California. SORE emissions are projected to increase as the population grows, while emissions from passenger cars decrease. By 2031, SORE emissions are projected to be nearly twice those from passenger cars.
https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/fact-s ... fact-sheet
Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
It looks good for what it's designed for but I want additional capabilities such as towing and hauling. Even the old fashioned GE Elec-Trak made 50 years ago could be fitted to do more than just mow.
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
It has an attachment for towing stuff. It weighs 450 lbs without a driver or batteries so it should be able to pull a cart or implements.
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
That helps! I also see from their website that a removable storage tray that fits above the batteries is in the works.
Between the idea And the reality...Between the motion And the act...Falls the Shadow - T. S. Eliot
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
My buddy called to day and said he bought a Ryobi Zero Turn off Ebay and loves it. said he saved about $1k from Home Depot price.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/165479038445?h ... Swh0xhaIU1
https://www.ebay.com/itm/165479038445?h ... Swh0xhaIU1
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
Awesome! Please give us a review after you've had it for a while.
So envious of your garage--except for the snowblower (I'm guessing; I want nothing to do with one of those) ...
So envious of your garage--except for the snowblower (I'm guessing; I want nothing to do with one of those) ...
Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
Your username reminds me of the Illudium Q36 Explosive Space Modulator. Maybe it’s powered by pu236.
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
Yep, those were the days. Pu236 is pretty hot stuff and might work well to destroy the earth in the hands of a Martian.
Between the idea And the reality...Between the motion And the act...Falls the Shadow - T. S. Eliot
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
Home Depot lists a couple Ryobi models, both small riding mowers (Snapper-style / rear-engine layout, not tractor style) and a zero turn available with a couple different deck sizes and battery capacities.corn18 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:02 pm The problem is there aren't any good electric riding mowers. I am leaning towards Ego because I have a lot of Ego tools and batteries already and all they make is a zero turn. If they made a non-zero turn riding mower, I think I would have already bought it. Ryobi makes one (and I think Greenworks) but now I have a different brand of batteries.
The current Ryobi's all seem to use lead acid batteries rather than lithium ion's. I don't have experience with either brand of mowers, so I can't say how the mowing performance compares between the Ryobi and the Ego, but I can offer some academic knowledge. As a starter, the 100 AH versions of the Ryobi's have more battery capacity (although either probably is plenty for the property you describe):
Ryobi - 12V x 100 Ah x 4 batteries = 4.8 kWh
Ego - 56V* 51.8V x 10 Ah x 4 batteries = 2.1 kWh (with the 4-included batteries. You can fit up to 6 batteries in it)
The Ryobi batteries will be cheaper to replace when the time comes - perhaps below $700 for basic deep cycle batteries, about $1000 for the official Ryobi replacements, or maybe $1500 to upgrade to good AGM batteries vs. $1800 for the 10AH Ego batteries. On the other hand, the Ego's lithium ion batteries will probably manage slightly longer life. Also, the nominal capacity of the Ryobi's batteries is for a relatively slow discharge, and the realistic capacity is going to be more like 70-80% of that. The Ego batteries are likely to achieve close to 100% of their nominal capacity.
Lithium ion batteries achieve their longest life stored partially charged. Lead acid batteries achieve their longest life stored fully charged.
* Ego gives the battery pack voltage at 4V per cell, which is a mostly full cell. It is more accurate for energy calculations and convention is to give the voltage at the average over the course of a discharge, which is 3.6-3.7V per cell.
Ego's battery warranty is 3 years.donaldfair71 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 10:47 am 1. What is the battery life expectancy, and what warranties come on said batteries?
Based on a combination of experience and study on the topic of managing lithium ion batteries, I would generally plan on 5-10 years of useful life expectancy, assuming you are not accruing a high number of deep discharge cycles in that time, but also assuming there is not any sophisticated battery management occurring as is the case with the current generation of electric cars.
Exposure to high temperatures will accelerate aging, as will storage at a high state of charge. Aging and the number of charge cycles will both reduce capacity and increase internal resistance. The internal resistance will typically manifest as either a loss of peak power, or a decline in voltage under load resulting in a device believing a battery is empty before it technically is (but it practically is since the device can't utilize the remaining energy). Someone who mows in tall, thick grass is likely to become dissatisfied with their batteries' performance earlier than someone who keeps their yard trimmed short.
As a point of comparison: Tesla manages their battery in a variety of ways including over-provisioning, and they warrant their batteries to provide a minimum of 70% of capacity for the less of 100,000 miles (150,000 miles for Model S and X) or 8 years. The mileage warranty is equivalent to 370 full discharge cycles on the shorter range version of the Model 3.
Tesla does not warranty for performance (Warranty quote: "The Battery, like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual energy or power loss with time and use. Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage is NOT covered under this Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty, except to the extent specified"). I suspect those who buy their Teslas purely for efficiency and follow the basic measures recommended by Tesla to prolong battery life will be happy well beyond 10 years, but those who buy them for performance will typically find themselves wanting battery replacements by that time.
Similar for the mowers - store the battery half charged in a cool location, and don't let your lawn get out of control between mowings, and 10+ year lifespans should be achievable. Fully charge the battery right away every single time, store it in a hot garage, and expect to run full speed through 6+ inches of new growth and you may find 5 years too long.
Ego in particular raises the question of when the effort of deliberately managing your batteries is worth it. They package ~$100 worth of cells in a battery pack that has a $450 MSRP. The 42" zero turn comes with 4 of those packs. Just replacing the batteries will cost as much as my Cub Cadet.
Hopefully, increasing competition forces Ego to lower their replacement battery prices before most owners get to the point of needing to buy them.
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
Same, love it. Got the bagger attachment as well, which like even a gas mower sucks if the grass is a little bit wet but the mower works great and my 3 year old loves riding on it with me.BeachGlass wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 8:56 am We love our Ryobi electric zero turn mower and will never go back to gas. We have model RY48ZTR100 purchased from Home Depot a couple of years ago. We have 1 acre to mow and typically have around 40% battery life remaining when we finish. This mower is incredibly fast. You will love an electric zero turn mower. Go for it!
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
Very good analysis. Spot on.iamlucky13 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 9:17 pmHome Depot lists a couple Ryobi models, both small riding mowers (Snapper-style / rear-engine layout, not tractor style) and a zero turn available with a couple different deck sizes and battery capacities.corn18 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:02 pm The problem is there aren't any good electric riding mowers. I am leaning towards Ego because I have a lot of Ego tools and batteries already and all they make is a zero turn. If they made a non-zero turn riding mower, I think I would have already bought it. Ryobi makes one (and I think Greenworks) but now I have a different brand of batteries.
The current Ryobi's all seem to use lead acid batteries rather than lithium ion's. I don't have experience with either brand of mowers, so I can't say how the mowing performance compares between the Ryobi and the Ego, but I can offer some academic knowledge. As a starter, the 100 AH versions of the Ryobi's have more battery capacity (although either probably is plenty for the property you describe):
Ryobi - 12V x 100 Ah x 4 batteries = 4.8 kWh
Ego - 56V* 51.8V x 10 Ah x 4 batteries = 2.1 kWh (with the 4-included batteries. You can fit up to 6 batteries in it)
The Ryobi batteries will be cheaper to replace when the time comes - perhaps below $700 for basic deep cycle batteries, about $1000 for the official Ryobi replacements, or maybe $1500 to upgrade to good AGM batteries vs. $1800 for the 10AH Ego batteries. On the other hand, the Ego's lithium ion batteries will probably manage slightly longer life. Also, the nominal capacity of the Ryobi's batteries is for a relatively slow discharge, and the realistic capacity is going to be more like 70-80% of that. The Ego batteries are likely to achieve close to 100% of their nominal capacity.
Lithium ion batteries achieve their longest life stored partially charged. Lead acid batteries achieve their longest life stored fully charged.
* Ego gives the battery pack voltage at 4V per cell, which is a mostly full cell. It is more accurate for energy calculations and convention is to give the voltage at the average over the course of a discharge, which is 3.6-3.7V per cell.
Ego's battery warranty is 3 years.donaldfair71 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 10:47 am 1. What is the battery life expectancy, and what warranties come on said batteries?
Based on a combination of experience and study on the topic of managing lithium ion batteries, I would generally plan on 5-10 years of useful life expectancy, assuming you are not accruing a high number of deep discharge cycles in that time, but also assuming there is not any sophisticated battery management occurring as is the case with the current generation of electric cars.
Exposure to high temperatures will accelerate aging, as will storage at a high state of charge. Aging and the number of charge cycles will both reduce capacity and increase internal resistance. The internal resistance will typically manifest as either a loss of peak power, or a decline in voltage under load resulting in a device believing a battery is empty before it technically is (but it practically is since the device can't utilize the remaining energy). Someone who mows in tall, thick grass is likely to become dissatisfied with their batteries' performance earlier than someone who keeps their yard trimmed short.
As a point of comparison: Tesla manages their battery in a variety of ways including over-provisioning, and they warrant their batteries to provide a minimum of 70% of capacity for the less of 100,000 miles (150,000 miles for Model S and X) or 8 years. The mileage warranty is equivalent to 370 full discharge cycles on the shorter range version of the Model 3.
Tesla does not warranty for performance (Warranty quote: "The Battery, like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual energy or power loss with time and use. Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage is NOT covered under this Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty, except to the extent specified"). I suspect those who buy their Teslas purely for efficiency and follow the basic measures recommended by Tesla to prolong battery life will be happy well beyond 10 years, but those who buy them for performance will typically find themselves wanting battery replacements by that time.
Similar for the mowers - store the battery half charged in a cool location, and don't let your lawn get out of control between mowings, and 10+ year lifespans should be achievable. Fully charge the battery right away every single time, store it in a hot garage, and expect to run full speed through 6+ inches of new growth and you may find 5 years too long.
Ego in particular raises the question of when the effort of deliberately managing your batteries is worth it. They package ~$100 worth of cells in a battery pack that has a $450 MSRP. The 42" zero turn comes with 4 of those packs. Just replacing the batteries will cost as much as my Cub Cadet.
Hopefully, increasing competition forces Ego to lower their replacement battery prices before most owners get to the point of needing to buy them.
I hope in 5-10 years when I need new batteries, there are more options.
I just converted my RV over to LiFePO4. A good 2.4 kWh LiFePO4 battery will run $1,000. But that's @ 12V (4S). To DIY a 52V 2.4 kWh LiFePO4 battery (14S) would be about $1400 for the cells. Plus a BMS for $250. Not sure what cells are in the EGO batteries, but their prices aren't completely outrageous.
FLA sucks. If you go more than 50% discharge, their life starts disappearing fast. Maybe 750 cycles if you go to 80% depth of discharge (DOD). And that's with perfect care. And they take a lot longer to recharge.
Lithium doesn't mind 90% DOD and they can handle a lot more charging current. Good cells will do 5000 cycles. High temp kills them. Low temp discharge is ok, but you can't charge them below freezing.
Last edited by corn18 on Tue May 17, 2022 10:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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- whodidntante
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
This is exactly how I pictured corn18's garage.Doom&Gloom wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 6:01 pm So envious of your garage--except for the snowblower (I'm guessing; I want nothing to do with one of those) ...
Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
Ya'll didn't notice the crooked hammer? I saw that when I posted and had to go out and fix it.whodidntante wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 10:09 pmThis is exactly how I pictured corn18's garage.Doom&Gloom wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 6:01 pm So envious of your garage--except for the snowblower (I'm guessing; I want nothing to do with one of those) ...
Consistently sets low goals and fails to achieve them.
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
LOL!corn18 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 10:12 pmYa'll didn't notice the crooked hammer? I saw that when I posted and had to go out and fix it.whodidntante wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 10:09 pmThis is exactly how I pictured corn18's garage.Doom&Gloom wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 6:01 pm So envious of your garage--except for the snowblower (I'm guessing; I want nothing to do with one of those) ...
You made me scroll back up to look.
I feel better now knowing that you straightened it up!
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
I see now the update that you've gone ahead and ordered the Ego mower.
From what I've heard and your description of your property, I don't think you'll have any regrets. I do think the Ryobi could also be satisfactory, but although the Ryobi is cheaper and should be able to handle a bigger property, you don't need that much capacity, and I suspect the Ego will actually perform more consistently from the start of your mow to the end.
https://www.trojanbattery.com/deep-cycle-gel-2/
For comparison, here is a common lithium ion cell for tool batteries and other high drain applications. Lithium ion battery cycle lives are typically given at 100% discharge, but because the cycle life curve is non-linear, although these cells achieve 300 cycles to 100% discharge, even the relatively small decrease in use to 80% discharge may double that to 600 cycles (unfortunately, not curve for depth of discharge is given). The advantage in total lifetime energy stored grows significantly with even shallower depth of discharge, so it's in probably the 20-30% depth of discharge range where 5000+ cycles starts to be feasible.
https://www.orbtronic.com/content/panas ... 650nsx.pdf
Lithium iron phosphate do significantly better at cycle life than either lithium ion or lead acid, but aren't as commonly used for vehicle power due to lower energy density and typically lower power output than lithium ion, while still being more expensive than lead acid. They should be great in your RV.
Practically speaking in either mower case, however, cycles alone are not going to determine the useful life for most users. Your yard is well under half the size either mower claims to be able to handle. Mowing weekly 8 months out of the year is only about 350 cycles per decade, so for either battery you should expect calendar aging to be at least as much of a factor in life expectancy. I've seen Ego commentary consistent with my suggestion of a 5-10 year life expectancy, and I've seen the same for lead acid golf cart batteries.
By the way of a passing thought - I have no idea if they do this, but Ego should make their charger programmable to charge at a specific time, and have a winter storage mode. If it were me, I'd want the battery to charge to 30-50% when first plugged in, so there is some ready power, and then charge to 100% Friday night so I can mow over the weekend. Then it should keep the batteries at 30-50% for the off season. The lab data I've seen suggests this could approximately double calendar life compared to keeping them at 100% all the time.
If that feature doesn't exist, the easy alternative is to make it a habit to not plug in the mower until Friday afternoon.
I don't worry about managing my drill batteries closely like this, but for the price of those Ego batteries, I definitely would.
From what I've heard and your description of your property, I don't think you'll have any regrets. I do think the Ryobi could also be satisfactory, but although the Ryobi is cheaper and should be able to handle a bigger property, you don't need that much capacity, and I suspect the Ego will actually perform more consistently from the start of your mow to the end.
We're talking about sealed lead acid gel batteries in this case not flooded batteries, but more importantly, the difference isn't quite as big as you suggest. Below is an example cycle life curve for a good brand of deep cycle, sealed lead acid batteries. As you can see, they rate to 500 cycles of 80% discharge, but over 1,000 cycles of 50% discharge. A budget brand might be more like 250-300 cycles.corn18 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 10:08 pmVery good analysis. Spot on.iamlucky13 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 9:17 pm ....
The current Ryobi's all seem to use lead acid batteries rather than lithium ion's.
....
I hope in 5-10 years when I need new batteries, there are more options.
I just converted my RV over to LiFePO4. A good 2.4 kWh LiFePO4 battery will run $1,000. But that's @ 12V (4S). To DIY a 52V 2.4 kWh LiFePO4 battery (14S) would be about $1400 for the cells. Plus a BMS for $250. Not sure what cells are in the EGO batteries, but their prices aren't completely outrageous.
FLA sucks. If you go more than 50% discharge, their life starts disappearing fast. Maybe 750 cycles if you go to 80% depth of discharge (DOD). And that's with perfect care. And they take a lot longer to recharge.
Lithium doesn't mind 90% DOD and they can handle a lot more charging current. Good cells will do 5000 cycles. High temp kills them. Low temp discharge is ok, but you can't charge them below freezing.
https://www.trojanbattery.com/deep-cycle-gel-2/
For comparison, here is a common lithium ion cell for tool batteries and other high drain applications. Lithium ion battery cycle lives are typically given at 100% discharge, but because the cycle life curve is non-linear, although these cells achieve 300 cycles to 100% discharge, even the relatively small decrease in use to 80% discharge may double that to 600 cycles (unfortunately, not curve for depth of discharge is given). The advantage in total lifetime energy stored grows significantly with even shallower depth of discharge, so it's in probably the 20-30% depth of discharge range where 5000+ cycles starts to be feasible.
https://www.orbtronic.com/content/panas ... 650nsx.pdf
Lithium iron phosphate do significantly better at cycle life than either lithium ion or lead acid, but aren't as commonly used for vehicle power due to lower energy density and typically lower power output than lithium ion, while still being more expensive than lead acid. They should be great in your RV.
Practically speaking in either mower case, however, cycles alone are not going to determine the useful life for most users. Your yard is well under half the size either mower claims to be able to handle. Mowing weekly 8 months out of the year is only about 350 cycles per decade, so for either battery you should expect calendar aging to be at least as much of a factor in life expectancy. I've seen Ego commentary consistent with my suggestion of a 5-10 year life expectancy, and I've seen the same for lead acid golf cart batteries.
By the way of a passing thought - I have no idea if they do this, but Ego should make their charger programmable to charge at a specific time, and have a winter storage mode. If it were me, I'd want the battery to charge to 30-50% when first plugged in, so there is some ready power, and then charge to 100% Friday night so I can mow over the weekend. Then it should keep the batteries at 30-50% for the off season. The lab data I've seen suggests this could approximately double calendar life compared to keeping them at 100% all the time.
If that feature doesn't exist, the easy alternative is to make it a habit to not plug in the mower until Friday afternoon.
I don't worry about managing my drill batteries closely like this, but for the price of those Ego batteries, I definitely would.
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
I don't think you got my meaning. The electricity needed to charge the batteries generally comes from fossil fuels. So if your local power plant is especially dirty, you could actually be creating more pollution using an electric motor compared to gas.
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
I could install a single 200W solar panel and get enough from that to charge it each week.homebuyer6426 wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 4:50 amI don't think you got my meaning. The electricity needed to charge the batteries generally comes from fossil fuels. So if your local power plant is especially dirty, you could actually be creating more pollution using an electric motor compared to gas.
Consistently sets low goals and fails to achieve them.
Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
Not true, but unfortunately getting into the reasons why will likely get this thread locked.homebuyer6426 wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 4:50 amI don't think you got my meaning. The electricity needed to charge the batteries generally comes from fossil fuels. So if your local power plant is especially dirty, you could actually be creating more pollution using an electric motor compared to gas.
But in short, power plants - even dirty ones (at least here in the USA) run on fossil fuels are much more strictly regulated for emissions than home lawn equipment, and it is much more efficient to run a huge power plant at full efficiency than to start tens of thousands of small engines for a few minutes at a time.
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Re: Debating an electric zero turn mower
Have you compared the emissions savings of that option, vs. the emissions savings of taking the price difference between a gas and electric mower, and using that money difference to buy solar for your house? These things get pretty complicated, and until all the math is done you don't actually know. That is my only point - not to assume. Your idea is probably great, but needs to be investigated to be sure.corn18 wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 5:31 amI could install a single 200W solar panel and get enough from that to charge it each week.homebuyer6426 wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 4:50 amI don't think you got my meaning. The electricity needed to charge the batteries generally comes from fossil fuels. So if your local power plant is especially dirty, you could actually be creating more pollution using an electric motor compared to gas.
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