Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

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itiswhatitis
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by itiswhatitis »

student wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 8:02 am
itiswhatitis wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 10:30 pm I am so sorry you and your(adult) children are going through this. I am going to speak directly and with the cold hard truth of experience here. I will also delete this post in 24 hours.
I did not quote you entire post because you said you will delete the post in 24 hours. Note that OP has quoted your entire post, so that hers stays even if your delete yours. You may want to pm OP to edit her reply.
thank you
MikeG62
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by MikeG62 »

lsk1 wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 10:05 am I am trying very hard to get a really good lawyer. It is not easy as I live in a small remote area. The local one is pressuring me to sign a retainer and is getting inpatient. I also spoke to a very good one, she is about an hour away but could come to my courthouse. It was 3 month ago. Her advise was to wait, see if I could live my life with him. I contacted her again couple of days ago and now her retainer quote went up from $25K to $50K. It seems unreasonable. Its a lot of money.
Unless I missed it, what was the reason given by this lawyer for doubling their retainer?

My experience regarding divorce attorney fees is exactly an "n of 1" (my SIL). She paid her lawyer a tiny fraction of what you are being quoted (and she lived in a HCOL area) - like 15% of that amount.

Your situation (as you've described it - assuming I have not missed something) does not sound complex at all. Nearly all assets aside from the home and funds in 529's are in tax deferred accounts (would be quite difficult for your spouse to make off with an outsized portion of that). It is not like you both have an outsized amount of money in taxable accounts spread all over the place or that your spouse owns a business where it would be easier to conceal assets. Get statements for all financial accounts before you serve your spouse so you have this information readily to hand.

Good luck. It's a tough process. This I know from watching my SIL go through it (and it took something on the order of 2 years start to finish - with a lot of waiting and delays along the way).
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vested1
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by vested1 »

As someone who had two divorces in California, one amicable where I gave up everything, and one nasty where everything was taken from me, and which I did not contest, I can confirm what was said earlier about the power of QDRO in divorce proceedings to ensure an equal split of marital assets. QDRO is the law and specifically protects the person who has the most to lose. I would consult an attorney without the knowledge of your husband in order to lock assets in place as soon as possible.

My ex, who never worked, got half of my 401k, even though she strongly resisted contributing to one, because QDRO required it. She insisted on keeping an inheritance from her mother even though it had been combined with our checking account and depleted long before the divorce, and I agreed to provide her that amount. I would have given all that was specified and more to her anyway but I had no choice. If your husband has a pension or a lump sum retirement from his employer you are eligible to receive a prorated, based on the percentage of his employment duration while you were married, at 1/2 amount of its worth. If he is expecting a pension he can be required to start paying you 1/2 of his pension out of his pocket as soon as the divorce is final, even if he hasn't retired yet, at your discretion. Bring these issues up with your lawyer.

Because you have been married for more than ten years you are also eligible to claim spousal SS benefits on his record and to receive survivor benefits of what he was receiving at the time of his death, or at least his PIA (amount at his FRA) if he should die before his FRA, that is if you are not remarried at the time. Be aware that you would get a non-reduced amount of his SS benefit if you delay filing until your own FRA.

There is light at the end of the tunnel. My current wife and I celebrate our 30th anniversary this year, so happiness really is possible. It requires two to make that happen however.
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lsk1
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by lsk1 »

vested1 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 7:10 am Be aware that you would get a non-reduced amount of his SS benefit if you delay filing until your own FRA.
Hi, thank you for this. Could you please explain about non-reduced amount of his SS benefits and delaying my own FRA in more detail?
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lsk1
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by lsk1 »

MikeG62 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 6:09 am
lsk1 wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 10:05 am

Unless I missed it, what was the reason given by this lawyer for doubling their retainer?

My experience regarding divorce attorney fees is exactly an "n of 1" (my SIL). She paid her lawyer a tiny fraction of what you are being quoted (and she lived in a HCOL area) - like 15% of that amount.

Your situation (as you've described it - assuming I have not missed something) does not sound complex at all. Nearly all assets aside from the home and funds in 529's are in tax deferred accounts (would be quite difficult for your spouse to make off with an outsized portion of that). It is not like you both have an outsized amount of money in taxable accounts spread all over the place or that your spouse owns a business where it would be easier to conceal assets. Get statements for all financial accounts before you serve your spouse so you have this information readily to hand.

Good luck. It's a tough process. This I know from watching my SIL go through it (and it took something on the order of 2 years start to finish - with a lot of waiting and delays along the way).
The lawyer didn't give an explanation. It was quoted by her secretary and I didn't get a chance to ask why.
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lsk1
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by lsk1 »

MikeG62 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 6:09 am
lsk1 wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 10:05 am I am trying very hard to get a really good lawyer. It is not easy as I live in a small remote area. The local one is pressuring me to sign a retainer and is getting inpatient. I also spoke to a very good one, she is about an hour away but could come to my courthouse. It was 3 month ago. Her advise was to wait, see if I could live my life with him. I contacted her again couple of days ago and now her retainer quote went up from $25K to $50K. It seems unreasonable. Its a lot of money.
Unless I missed it, what was the reason given by this lawyer for doubling their retainer?

My experience regarding divorce attorney fees is exactly an "n of 1" (my SIL). She paid her lawyer a tiny fraction of what you are being quoted (and she lived in a HCOL area) - like 15% of that amount.

Your situation (as you've described it - assuming I have not missed something) does not sound complex at all. Nearly all assets aside from the home and funds in 529's are in tax deferred accounts (would be quite difficult for your spouse to make off with an outsized portion of that). It is not like you both have an outsized amount of money in taxable accounts spread all over the place or that your spouse owns a business where it would be easier to conceal assets. Get statements for all financial accounts before you serve your spouse so you have this information readily to hand.

Good luck. It's a tough process. This I know from watching my SIL go through it (and it took something on the order of 2 years start to finish - with a lot of waiting and delays along the way).
My husband is incorporated. He pays salary to himself and to his daughters. I have no access to to his business account.
HeelaMonster
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by HeelaMonster »

lsk1 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 9:02 am
vested1 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 7:10 am Be aware that you would get a non-reduced amount of his SS benefit if you delay filing until your own FRA.
Hi, thank you for this. Could you please explain about non-reduced amount of his SS benefits and delaying my own FRA in more detail?
Others may explain in their own words but, in the meantime, here is a summary straight from the horse's mouth (SSA):

https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement ... or%20older.
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lsk1
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by lsk1 »

HeelaMonster wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 9:25 am
lsk1 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 9:02 am
vested1 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 7:10 am Be aware that you would get a non-reduced amount of his SS benefit if you delay filing until your own FRA.
Hi, thank you for this. Could you please explain about non-reduced amount of his SS benefits and delaying my own FRA in more detail?
Others may explain in their own words but, in the meantime, here is a summary straight from the horse's mouth (SSA):

https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement ... or%20older.
I think it is still maximum spousal benefit is 50% of the other spouse's full benefit. Am I missing something?
BarbBrooklyn
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by BarbBrooklyn »

There is a chapter in The Boglehead's Guide to Retirement called "Divorce and Other Disasters" that would probably be good to read.
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H-Town
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by H-Town »

It's tactical advantage if you file the divorce first. Money is fungible, so if you ends up with half of the asset, you can choose to pay the school expenses for your adult children. So I would move forward to file divorce as soon as possible.

It's hard to move a large amount of assets abroad if your husband is not a resident of that foreign country and does not have a financial account set up abroad. Especially most of your assets are tied to retirement account, SS benefits, and a business in the states. It's a scary thought but I don't think it's an easy feat to accomplish in practice.

Does your husband know you are contemplating a divorce? Do you have a reasonable cause to file a divorce? Does he know this forum? It's a public forum so your posts are easily accessible. I would delete this topic once you are able to obtain a lawyer. If it's an ugly divorce, you never know if those posts can be used against you.

Don't get hung up for the cost of a reputable divorce lawyer. 50k might just be 5% (?) of your entitled half of the assets.
Last edited by H-Town on Mon May 16, 2022 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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lsk1
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by lsk1 »

BarbBrooklyn wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 10:44 am There is a chapter in The Boglehead's Guide to Retirement called "Divorce and Other Disasters" that would probably be good to read.
Got the book, will read today. Thank you so much!
Buffetologist
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by Buffetologist »

If there is only one good divorce attorney who works in your county, you'd better get them before he does.

Can you go the courthouse while he's working, watch some cases and find an attorney who seems good?
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lsk1
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by lsk1 »

Buffetologist wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 4:55 pm If there is only one good divorce attorney who works in your county, you'd better get them before he does.

Can you go the courthouse while he's working, watch some cases and find an attorney who seems good?
Never thought about It, such a good idea!!!
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by LadyGeek »

Bear in mind that time is working against you here. I don't think visiting the courthouse will be productive. The one divorce proceeding I'm familiar with just had the initial settlement meeting. It was not open to the general public - lawyers only.

As suggested previously, if there's only one lawyer who's willing to work with you, better grab her before your husband does. File ASAP.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by ResearchMed »

lsk1 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 5:52 pm
Buffetologist wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 4:55 pm If there is only one good divorce attorney who works in your county, you'd better get them before he does.

Can you go the courthouse while he's working, watch some cases and find an attorney who seems good?
Never thought about It, such a good idea!!!
I do agree that you want to get a good/great local attorney befoer your husband does, if there are difficulties getting one in that area!

However, the ones you'll see in court may be impressive (or not!) IN COURT.
Hopefully, you will be able to get this done without actual courtroom drama. Other than personal recommendations, I don't know how you get a sense of how they do trying to avoid the expensive court route...
That still may be helpful, but may overlook some who are terrific at "negotiating for their clients", etc.

The main this, again, is that you get this going while it's still possible (before he moves money or himself or is otherwise vindictive). His ability to do that are considerably limited once you've gotten this started.

RM
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chazas
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by chazas »

Good luck, I second the advice to find the best divorce lawyer you can, NOW.

I got divorced from my ex after 32 years together, 5 years married (same sex couple, which is why the time difference). I got a pitbull lawyer, but she only charged me a $12,000 retainer in an HCOL area. On the other hand I told her that I was going to do what I could by myself (I’m a lawyer, not that kind though) and run it by her, that she wasn’t authorized to do anything without clearing with me first, and I was determined to negotiate something very amicable. I made an initial offer, it was super super fair (my lawyer actually told me it was too fair), and just stuck with it/didn’t budge. I assume my lawyer would have charged more had I indicated I thought it would go to litigation. My ex rejected mediation, thought the mediator was trying to cheat him, so it took longer than I expected. But I stuck to my guns, and he came around. Presumably his lawyer finally told him to get on board, that he’d get a lot less if he made it difficult.

I think every divorce is probably different, just like every marriage. Based on your posts here, I reiterate, get the best divorce lawyer you can, NOW. And take their advice, not a bunch of us random people on the internet.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by ResearchMed »

chazas wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 6:12 pm Good luck, I second the advice to find the best divorce lawyer you can, NOW.

I got divorced from my ex after 32 years together, 5 years married (same sex couple, which is why the time difference). I got a pitbull lawyer, but she only charged me a $12,000 retainer in an HCOL area. On the other hand I told her that I was going to do what I could by myself (I’m a lawyer, not that kind though) and run it by her, that she wasn’t authorized to do anything without clearing with me first, and I was determined to negotiate something very amicable. I made an initial offer, it was super super fair (my lawyer actually told me it was too fair), and just stuck with it/didn’t budge. I assume my lawyer would have charged more had I indicated I thought it would go to litigation. My ex rejected mediation, thought the mediator was trying to cheat him, so it took longer than I expected. But I stuck to my guns, and he came around. Presumably his lawyer finally told him to get on board, that he’d get a lot less if he made it difficult.

I think every divorce is probably different, just like every marriage. Based on your posts here, I reiterate, get the best divorce lawyer you can, NOW. And take their advice, not a bunch of us random people on the internet.
Ordinarily, I'd think your approach would make sense, at least for a start.

However, OP is indicating there are some serious risks, and of varying types, potentially.

I would get things arranged with the attorney ASAP.

OP: Everyone seems to be agreeing with this!) and then follow other suggestions from them, including whether to be away from home when he "finds out", etc.
Pay special attention to what your own attorney recommends.
IF it turns out you were wrong about him being "scary" (unlikely, but wouldn't that be a nice surprise!), then you can perhaps relax a bit.

RM
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DebiT
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by DebiT »

michaeljc70 wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 7:03 am You seem caught up on the 529 and need to look at the big picture. The big picture is if you do nothing maybe your kids will get their education paid for and you might end up with little to nothing. Money is fungible, so consider that (if you lose $700k so the kids can get $500k is that a good deal?) Since everything is in his name, the only way to protect yourself is to file for divorce. The lawyer can petition to limit large withdrawals from any accounts you may be entitled to a piece of.

In my state a spouse that is a beneficiary cannot be removed from a 401k without the spouse's permission.
Totally agree. File to protect yourself. Once that happens, he can’t mess with the marital assets, and you are right , California is on your side. Also, get a credit card and a checking account in your name only, because he will cancel your credit cards. A good divorce lawyer will advise you. Tell your kids to get loans and to hang onto their hats. They will be ok, but it might be chaos for a bit. The alternative is wait, and hope that he doesn’t make the marital assets disappear. I’d file
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BarbBrooklyn
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by BarbBrooklyn »

Only tangentially financial:

When we divorced, kids we ere 20, 18 and 16.

Never said a word to them about their dad. They told me that he said plenty about me.

20 years down the road, we all have good relationships with each other and can be in the same space to celebrate milestones.

But privately, each of them has told me what a jerk he is. They've all set boundaries, as adult children should with parents (he comes from a boundary-less family).

You have bright kids. Let them figure this out on their own. If he tells them that the loss of their 529 funds is your fault, then that's manipulation and they will eventually figure that out.

Play the long game.
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cchrissyy
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by cchrissyy »

OP, I'm very happily divorced and while the process is overwhelming for most people, the way you describe him is a whole other level of alarming. Since this is not a relationship forum I will stick to the practical and financial suggestions.

They are for answering in your head, not for us.

can he see the computer you are typing on right now?
could he guess your login to this site and any others?
are you truly free to change passwords - or are you afraid because he'll notice and there would be a consequence?

you've mentioned all the accounts are in his name.
i hope we've all been very clear on the fact they really are half yours!
but my questions are, do you know what financial abuse is, have you read the signs? for instance, are you able to log in and see all the bank accounts and credit cards? or does he not even let you look? are you on an allowance or are you able to spend what you want? was it always your free choice to stay home from work or did he pressure you? has he pushed you to sign joint tax returns without seeing the documents that built them? do you not feel free to open your own accounts?

have you read tips for how to leave a potentially dangerous situation, such as, how to make sure your phone and location are not being tracked? how to get your passport and valuables safely in the hands of a trusted 3rd party? how to get copies of your taxes and assets? if you don't already know a handful of other common suggestions along the lines of what i'm talking about, i suggest you don't google it from your current (unsecured?) device but please go to the public library ASAP to read more and call your local women's shelter. they can help you get out safely. I'm not saying that you'll literally need shelter. What I mean is, they know what practical steps you can take and what social services and lawyers to recommend. And perhaps they will give you a phone where he can't see your call activity and the fact you're snapping photos of old taxes and bank statements.

good luck!
Last edited by cchrissyy on Mon May 16, 2022 8:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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yogithor
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by yogithor »

In my opinion, summerof42 and LadyGeek are giving you the best advice. A couple of things to add from my experience:
1) Do a consult with 3 or 4 of the best attorneys who are willing to work in your area. Once you do a single consult, they can't represent him. Even though it will be expensive, consider having a local "boots on the ground attorney" and another one in your state who has a good reputation in the nearest big city possible to use a as consulting attorney. Someone to review strategy and filings.
2) Work with an attorney who is open to allowing you to do some of the grunt work. You'll need 3 identical evidence books (for plaintiff, defendant, and Judge) in binders with a TOC and tabs. Assemble them yourself. My attorney was $350/hr, and paralegal was $200/hr. I saved a lot of money by making copies and assembling these evidence books myself under the direction of my attorney.
3) Prior to filing, comb through communications - emails, texts, etc - that show threatening, abusive, or controlling behavior. Catalogue them for use as evidence. Keep your own written communication business-like. It can be used against you.
4) Upon filing, do the discovery but absolutely pursue the subpoena of records from all known financial institutions going back at least 5 years. Be thorough. It will be a mess of PDFs and spreadsheets. Go through them with a fine-toothed comb and look for unusual transfers. If that leads to other institutions, subpoena those, as well. You may be surprised to find other pocket(s) of funds that he has squirreled away. If there are omissions in the discovery where he tried to hide funds, make sure your attorney highlights this in court. Judges usually hate to be lied to.
5) Don't get stuck on it but write out a clear timeline of events in a secure format prior to filing. Gathering of info prior to filing, filing, communication to kids, personal safety measures, etc.
6) During settlement negotiations, err on the side of one-time payouts versus anything that ties you to him indefinitely. The cleaner the cut, the better. Even if you ultimately get a bit less money. Spouses like this will often withhold future payments or find other ways to use future money to keep you connected to them in their drama cycle.
7) Follow all of the advice given about self-care. Divorce is not the end of the world. It's often the beginning of a great life.
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lsk1
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by lsk1 »

yogithor wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 8:03 pm In my opinion, summerof42 and LadyGeek are giving you the best advice. A couple of things to add from my experience:
1) Do a consult with 3 or 4 of the best attorneys who are willing to work in your area. Once you do a single consult, they can't represent him. Even though it will be expensive, consider having a local "boots on the ground attorney" and another one in your state who has a good reputation in the nearest big city possible to use a as consulting attorney. Someone to review strategy and filings.
2) Work with an attorney who is open to allowing you to do some of the grunt work. You'll need 3 identical evidence books (for plaintiff, defendant, and Judge) in binders with a TOC and tabs. Assemble them yourself. My attorney was $350/hr, and paralegal was $200/hr. I saved a lot of money by making copies and assembling these evidence books myself under the direction of my attorney.
3) Prior to filing, comb through communications - emails, texts, etc - that show threatening, abusive, or controlling behavior. Catalogue them for use as evidence. Keep your own written communication business-like. It can be used against you.
4) Upon filing, do the discovery but absolutely pursue the subpoena of records from all known financial institutions going back at least 5 years. Be thorough. It will be a mess of PDFs and spreadsheets. Go through them with a fine-toothed comb and look for unusual transfers. If that leads to other institutions, subpoena those, as well. You may be surprised to find other pocket(s) of funds that he has squirreled away. If there are omissions in the discovery where he tried to hide funds, make sure your attorney highlights this in court. Judges usually hate to be lied to.
5) Don't get stuck on it but write out a clear timeline of events in a secure format prior to filing. Gathering of info prior to filing, filing, communication to kids, personal safety measures, etc.
6) During settlement negotiations, err on the side of one-time payouts versus anything that ties you to him indefinitely. The cleaner the cut, the better. Even if you ultimately get a bit less money. Spouses like this will often withhold future payments or find other ways to use future money to keep you connected to them in their drama cycle.
7) Follow all of the advice given about self-care. Divorce is not the end of the world. It's often the beginning of a great life.
Thank you!
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by delamer »

DebiT wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 7:18 pm
michaeljc70 wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 7:03 am You seem caught up on the 529 and need to look at the big picture. The big picture is if you do nothing maybe your kids will get their education paid for and you might end up with little to nothing. Money is fungible, so consider that (if you lose $700k so the kids can get $500k is that a good deal?) Since everything is in his name, the only way to protect yourself is to file for divorce. The lawyer can petition to limit large withdrawals from any accounts you may be entitled to a piece of.

In my state a spouse that is a beneficiary cannot be removed from a 401k without the spouse's permission.
Totally agree. File to protect yourself. Once that happens, he can’t mess with the marital assets, and you are right , California is on your side. Also, get a credit card and a checking account in your name only, because he will cancel your credit cards. A good divorce lawyer will advise you. Tell your kids to get loans and to hang onto their hats. They will be ok, but it might be chaos for a bit. The alternative is wait, and hope that he doesn’t make the marital assets disappear. I’d file
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mhalley
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by mhalley »

If you are married, you can list the spouses income on the application.
https://www.nj.com/news/2021/12/should- ... vorce.html
Should I apply for new cards only in my name now or wait until we get divorced?
A.
You’re smart to start planning for your credit future.

So yes, should consider applying for a new card only in your name now, said Amber Leach, a certified divorce financial analyst with Equitable Advisors/R.I.C.H. Planning Group in Morristown.
Last edited by mhalley on Mon May 16, 2022 8:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
DebiT
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by DebiT »

mhalley wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 8:42 pm If you are married, you can list the spouses income on the application.
https://www.nj.com/news/2021/12/should- ... vorce.html
Google seems to agree. Getting ahold of some cash would be next, if possible. Otherwise, credit card and lawyer, probably at the same time. Very scary to be this vulnerable,and to be worried he would spitefully hurt his children
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LadyGeek
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by LadyGeek »

^^^ Helpful suggestions, but remember that the lawyer will decide how the OP should handle finances from the time of filing onward.

Google is good for info, but acting on the information should not be done without legal guidance.
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delamer
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by delamer »

mhalley wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 8:42 pm If you are married, you can list the spouses income on the application.
https://www.nj.com/news/2021/12/should- ... vorce.html
Should I apply for new cards only in my name now or wait until we get divorced?
A.
You’re smart to start planning for your credit future.

So yes, should consider applying for a new card only in your name now, said Amber Leach, a certified divorce financial analyst with Equitable Advisors/R.I.C.H. Planning Group in Morristown.
But the spouse in the article had a lower income, not no income.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
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ResearchMed
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by ResearchMed »

mhalley wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 8:42 pm If you are married, you can list the spouses income on the application.
https://www.nj.com/news/2021/12/should- ... vorce.html
Should I apply for new cards only in my name now or wait until we get divorced?
A.
You’re smart to start planning for your credit future.

So yes, should consider applying for a new card only in your name now, said Amber Leach, a certified divorce financial analyst with Equitable Advisors/R.I.C.H. Planning Group in Morristown.
Another good reason to quietly get a couple of charge cards now, while there IS "household income".
She may not qualify later (or not for as much credit), but they won't close the accounts if they are all kept current.
My worry is that if he knows about them, he could close them down, even if inappropriately.

Security is key, in several ways.
Same reason to try to get some cash hidden away, or at least know you can borrow a bit from someone during the immediate changes... including where to stay safely.

That attorney can advise, etc.....

RM
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Beensabu
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by Beensabu »

ResearchMed wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 9:27 pm My worry is that if he knows about them, he could close them down, even if inappropriately.
She needs a PO box. And probably a safe deposit box...
"The only thing that makes life possible is permanent, intolerable uncertainty; not knowing what comes next." ~Ursula LeGuin
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8foot7
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by 8foot7 »

If you're going to take the money and apply for the credit card, I'd do so on the day you file and not before. I can imagine this person, if the picture you paint is accurate, hitting the roof seeing a large unexplained withdrawal from an unemployed spouse. It is a quick thought train from "[expletive removed by admin LadyGeek]" to "she's leaving" and then it all will hit the fan; I would not want to be around.

When I filed for divorce my attorney's advice was to close any credit cards my ex-wife had access to and leave enough money for her to eat and feed the child in the checking account. (I did neither and came to regret it, but that's another story.) I would expect your husband's eventual attorney to have similar advice, so you should know what to expect.

You also need a job asap, yesterday even. It could be months before you see any additional money, and you never know what the amount is going to be if you leave it up to a judge (although California may have a worksheet approach to this - in my state, only child support follows a formula, and the judge works out alimony and spousal support if the parties can't agree).

Put simply, getting some cash and credit and having some money coming in via employment will give you some sense of control over your life. If you do neither, you'll be subject to his whims and the renowned efficiency of the California court system.
vested1
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by vested1 »

lsk1 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 9:02 am
vested1 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 7:10 am Be aware that you would get a non-reduced amount of his SS benefit if you delay filing until your own FRA.
Hi, thank you for this. Could you please explain about non-reduced amount of his SS benefits and delaying my own FRA in more detail?
Sorry, we have house guests this week and I have limited time on the computer. If you file for either spousal SS or a survivor's benefit before your own FRA (66 and some number of months depending on you birth year) the amount you recieve will be reduced. Spousal is maxed at your husband's PIA (his amount at his FRA), but survivor benefits would be a minimum of PIA and a maximum total of what he would be receiving at his death. You are entitled to claim on your husband's benefit and don't need to inform him when you do so. Your claim will not affect what he is eligible to receive either.

In the case of my ex-wife, even though we don't get along, I recently sat down with her and explained her options regarding filing for SS on my record, as well as her ability to get survivor benefits on my SS account. I figured that if she was happier in her financial situation my adult children would benefit as well.

My last advice is to take the high road with your children, and regardless of the temptation to denigrate their father when talking with them, don't do it. Contrary to some earlier generalized statements, sometimes a negative influence from an ex spouse can linger indefinitely. It's up to your adult children to come to their own conclusions without undue influence from you, regardless of what your soon-to-be ex does. They have to make their own decisions after all, and you should encourage them to seek unbiased counseling from a professional if you think they need it, one who only has their well being in mind. Having one vindictive parent is better than having two.

No matter how old you or your children are, you never stop being a parent.
masha12
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by masha12 »

lsk1 wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 3:05 pm I am just going to repeat here what I said above:
my situation is complicated by the fact that both of my kids are in early stages of medical school and their tuition, housing, living, travel and extras are covered by the 529 education account - husband is the sole custodian. There are funds there to cover the rest of their education, which is -4 years from now for the youngest and 3 for the oldest. In the event of my filing, my husband most likely name other beneficiaries or withdraw the money out of spite, I fear. If not for this situation, I would file, I live in CA and the law is on my side.
I am terrified because I already know that 529 accounts could only have one custodian who could legally do absolutely anything with these accounts.
If I file now and freeze all assets, my kids lose their credit cards(issued my my husband), they will also lose the money they receive every month for living expenses (comes from my husband's 529 account). Tuition and boarding will go away. I consulted two lawyers and they don't think that they could protect adult children who are beneficiaries of 529 accounts. I even considered advising my kids to apply for the loans, just in case but if the Federal loans are granted and not used then they must be returned withing 120 days to avoid interest charges. My husband still works but his contract expires in November and I strongly fear that he is going to leave the US.
If there is a real concern that your husband is going to leave the country, you need to discuss this with an attorney ASAP and perhaps file for divorce immediately if that would freeze the accounts. The 529s are a bummer, but if he drains all of the accounts and moves out of the country, you could be left with $0.
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LilyFleur
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by LilyFleur »

fyre4ce wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 7:35 pm
LilyFleur wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:47 pm <snip>

I think divorce attorneys eyeball the size of the assets and determine a percentage that they will take. Of course, a collaborative, amicable divorce is much less expensive than a hostile one. I had to go to court multiple times, and it was very expensive. I have had friends who paid the fee for a mediator for divorce, only to have completely wasted the money because the divorce was too difficult for mediation. I think I spent about $60,000; I had a friend who spent at least $150,000. Reasonable people don't want to fritter away their family resources on attorney fees. But unfortunately, not everyone is reasonable in a divorce. California law is quite clear. But some parties believe they are above the law.
Do you, or anyone else, know what controls are in place (if any) to limit the expenditure by a spouse on legal fees during a divorce? I'm asking because I have an acquaintance who is in an unhappy marriage, and her husband explicitly threatened to spend the entire family nest egg on lawyers if she were to file for divorce. Presumably, this would take the form of filing all kinds of motions to grind the gears of the process as much as possible and generate billable hours on both sides. Maybe he could even pay his lawyer some inflated rate, say, $1,500/hr instead of $500. I imagine many lawyers would be happy to go along with this plan. I understand the need to allow each party to get the representation they think they need, but it seems like there should be some limits as well, for this reason. Seems like this could be a risk here too, although maybe to not such an extreme degree.

Of course, threatening this course of action to dissuade a divorce filing is one thing. Following through with it if she did file is another matter. He would be wasting his own money too.
The fiduciary duty of one spouse to another is well established under case law in my state, California.

Your friend needs to be documenting all of these conversations. I would recommend conducting the conversations over text and/or email, as both are admissible evidence in court. I am not an attorney but as an office manager for a court-reporting agency, I prepared many depositions with pages and pages of text message images as exhibits that were attached to the depositions.
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LilyFleur
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by LilyFleur »

masha12 wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 8:05 am
lsk1 wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 3:05 pm I am just going to repeat here what I said above:
my situation is complicated by the fact that both of my kids are in early stages of medical school and their tuition, housing, living, travel and extras are covered by the 529 education account - husband is the sole custodian. There are funds there to cover the rest of their education, which is -4 years from now for the youngest and 3 for the oldest. In the event of my filing, my husband most likely name other beneficiaries or withdraw the money out of spite, I fear. If not for this situation, I would file, I live in CA and the law is on my side.
I am terrified because I already know that 529 accounts could only have one custodian who could legally do absolutely anything with these accounts.
If I file now and freeze all assets, my kids lose their credit cards(issued my my husband), they will also lose the money they receive every month for living expenses (comes from my husband's 529 account). Tuition and boarding will go away. I consulted two lawyers and they don't think that they could protect adult children who are beneficiaries of 529 accounts. I even considered advising my kids to apply for the loans, just in case but if the Federal loans are granted and not used then they must be returned withing 120 days to avoid interest charges. My husband still works but his contract expires in November and I strongly fear that he is going to leave the US.
If there is a real concern that your husband is going to leave the country, you need to discuss this with an attorney ASAP and perhaps file for divorce immediately if that would freeze the accounts. The 529s are a bummer, but if he drains all of the accounts and moves out of the country, you could be left with $0.
Accounts can be frozen legally with court orders (ie, when you file for dissolution), but the person whose name is on the account can still go empty an account. Then you would need to subpoena all of that person's accounts and account history from that institution, and go to court to recover your half of the money. It also is illegal to make any changes in insurance between filing for dissolution and finishing the divorce, but it happens. All of these things can get very costly.
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LilyFleur
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by LilyFleur »

ChrisC wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 7:57 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 7:33 pm
scorcher31 wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 6:49 pm I have no legal experience but I'm curious. Can't a divorce lawyer just take a certain percent of the total winnings/payout with no retainer? I know that is how it can work with injury cases and malpractice cases at times. California is a 50/50 split state so if there are millions in total, the lawyer could make great money by agreeing to takes 5-10% of the wife's awarded monies. If the husband's accounts are locked down when the divorce is filed, there is no reason to think they would not get the money.

As a physician what I can say is, many of us have no parental help to fund our education. I wouldn't not be worried about paying for your adult children. You husband may still do that, and there is a possibility the 529 could be frozen and split as well (you would have to ask your lawyer).
There are no "winnings" in a divorce. Everyone loses, unfortunately.

Someone above mentioned a "contingency" agreement for the attorney, and that doesn't make sense; it's another way of asking what you are asking.

In a divorce, they are splitting their own assets, already owned by one or both. In personal injury or such, there is a claim against another party for costs incurred (which could be minor or very substantial), and perhaps for pain/suffering.
That is very different that divvying up a couple's own assets, just between the two of them.

IF there is such a thing as a contingent fee agreement in a divorce (perhaps in very high value, where the money if far beyond what is needed for support, college, retirement, etc.), there are such things, but ... ??

RM
It’s professionally unethical to have a contingency fee arrangement in representing someone in a family law matter or criminal defense matter. See the California Bar Rule 1.5 mentioned before. However, once a client cannot afford legal representation in a family law matter, the lawyer can continue representation without payment from the client and hope the client will be awarded attorney’s fees and expenses assessed against the other side during specific matters in the case or at the end of the case by the judge presiding in the case. So, in that case, payment for services is essentially contingent on favorable rulings by the judge — you can’t bank on that.

The lawyer can also request to withdraw from representation with the approval from the judge. If the judge grants the withdrawal petition/motion that ends the lawyer’s continued representation. The judge could deny the petition, keep the lawyer in the case, and later decide not to award attorney’s fees against the other side in favor of the client and lawyer kept in the case. Essentially, the lawyer has rendered continued services on a pro bono basis.
Most divorce attorneys will not provide services on a pro bono basis. In a pro bono situation, the client does not ever pay the fees. Despite being awarded some of the divorce fees in court, I was left with a bill that was large in relation to my income at the time. I just keep paying on it every month, and after I received an inheritance, I was able to pay it off. Fortunately my attorney was not charging interest.
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lsk1
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by lsk1 »

LilyFleur wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 1:44 pm
masha12 wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 8:05 am If there is a real concern that your husband is going to leave the country, you need to discuss this with an attorney ASAP and perhaps file for divorce immediately if that would freeze the accounts. The 529s are a bummer, but if he drains all of the accounts and moves out of the country, you could be left with $0.
Accounts can be frozen legally with court orders (ie, when you file for dissolution), but the person whose name is on the account can still go empty an account. Then you would need to subpoena all of that person's accounts and account history from that institution, and go to court to recover your half of the money. It also is illegal to make any changes in insurance between filing for dissolution and finishing the divorce, but it happens. All of these things can get very costly.
[ quote fixed by admin LadyGeek]

Hi, could you explain a little better? I thought when you apply and have the accounts frozen the owner cannot withdraw money.
JackoC
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by JackoC »

delamer wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 8:59 pm
mhalley wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 8:42 pm If you are married, you can list the spouses income on the application.
https://www.nj.com/news/2021/12/should- ... vorce.html
Should I apply for new cards only in my name now or wait until we get divorced?
A.
You’re smart to start planning for your credit future.

So yes, should consider applying for a new card only in your name now, said Amber Leach, a certified divorce financial analyst with Equitable Advisors/R.I.C.H. Planning Group in Morristown.
But the spouse in the article had a lower income, not no income.
The CFPB rule from 2013 is here:
"Today, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) updated existing regulations to make it easier for spouses or partners who do not work outside of the home to qualify for credit cards."
"For credit card applicants who are 21 or older, the Bureau’s revision allows card issuers to consider third-party income if the applicant has a reasonable expectation of access to it."
https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-u ... dit-cards/

It doesn't say the issuer must issuer the card, but I think it puts an at-home spouse on solid ground not to worry they are violating any law by reporting the joint income if there are any joint accounts, legality being the thing to worry about IMO. I can't recall a card issuer following up with requests for proof of income, and I churn credit cards pretty often.
delamer
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by delamer »

JackoC wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 2:42 pm
delamer wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 8:59 pm
mhalley wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 8:42 pm If you are married, you can list the spouses income on the application.
https://www.nj.com/news/2021/12/should- ... vorce.html
Should I apply for new cards only in my name now or wait until we get divorced?
A.
You’re smart to start planning for your credit future.

So yes, should consider applying for a new card only in your name now, said Amber Leach, a certified divorce financial analyst with Equitable Advisors/R.I.C.H. Planning Group in Morristown.
But the spouse in the article had a lower income, not no income.
The CFPB rule from 2013 is here:
"Today, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) updated existing regulations to make it easier for spouses or partners who do not work outside of the home to qualify for credit cards."
"For credit card applicants who are 21 or older, the Bureau’s revision allows card issuers to consider third-party income if the applicant has a reasonable expectation of access to it."
https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-u ... dit-cards/

It doesn't say the issuer must issuer the card, but I think it puts an at-home spouse on solid ground not to worry they are violating any law by reporting the joint income if there are any joint accounts, legality being the thing to worry about IMO. I can't recall a card issuer following up with requests for proof of income, and I churn credit cards pretty often.
Interesting. Of course, if a divorce is imminent than “reasonable expectation of access” might ge in question.

Just to be clear, I’m not arguing that the OP shouldn’t be able to obtain a credit card. I was just wondering about her ability to do so.

Maybe the OP should check her credit score.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
Topic Author
lsk1
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by lsk1 »

delamer wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 3:04 pm
JackoC wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 2:42 pm
delamer wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 8:59 pm
mhalley wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 8:42 pm If you are married, you can list the spouses income on the application.
https://www.nj.com/news/2021/12/should- ... vorce.html
Should I apply for new cards only in my name now or wait until we get divorced?
A.
You’re smart to start planning for your credit future.

So yes, should consider applying for a new card only in your name now, said Amber Leach, a certified divorce financial analyst with Equitable Advisors/R.I.C.H. Planning Group in Morristown.
But the spouse in the article had a lower income, not no income.
The CFPB rule from 2013 is here:
"Today, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) updated existing regulations to make it easier for spouses or partners who do not work outside of the home to qualify for credit cards."
"For credit card applicants who are 21 or older, the Bureau’s revision allows card issuers to consider third-party income if the applicant has a reasonable expectation of access to it."
https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-u ... dit-cards/

It doesn't say the issuer must issuer the card, but I think it puts an at-home spouse on solid ground not to worry they are violating any law by reporting the joint income if there are any joint accounts, legality being the thing to worry about IMO. I can't recall a card issuer following up with requests for proof of income, and I churn credit cards pretty often.
Interesting. Of course, if a divorce is imminent than “reasonable expectation of access” might ge in question.

Just to be clear, I’m not arguing that the OP shouldn’t be able to obtain a credit card. I was just wondering about her ability to do so.

Maybe the OP should check her credit score.
I have a high credit score and have no problem getting a credit card any time. My score comes from mortgage info - present and past properties, joint checking, paid cars, being a guarantor for my kids apartments and other credit related accounts.
delamer
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by delamer »

lsk1 wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 3:23 pm
delamer wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 3:04 pm
JackoC wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 2:42 pm
delamer wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 8:59 pm
mhalley wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 8:42 pm If you are married, you can list the spouses income on the application.
https://www.nj.com/news/2021/12/should- ... vorce.html

But the spouse in the article had a lower income, not no income.
The CFPB rule from 2013 is here:
"Today, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) updated existing regulations to make it easier for spouses or partners who do not work outside of the home to qualify for credit cards."
"For credit card applicants who are 21 or older, the Bureau’s revision allows card issuers to consider third-party income if the applicant has a reasonable expectation of access to it."
https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-u ... dit-cards/

It doesn't say the issuer must issuer the card, but I think it puts an at-home spouse on solid ground not to worry they are violating any law by reporting the joint income if there are any joint accounts, legality being the thing to worry about IMO. I can't recall a card issuer following up with requests for proof of income, and I churn credit cards pretty often.
Interesting. Of course, if a divorce is imminent than “reasonable expectation of access” might ge in question.

Just to be clear, I’m not arguing that the OP shouldn’t be able to obtain a credit card. I was just wondering about her ability to do so.

Maybe the OP should check her credit score.
I have a high credit score and have no problem getting a credit card any time. My score comes from mortgage info - present and past properties, joint checking, paid cars, being a guarantor for my kids apartments and other credit related accounts.
Excellent. Have you actually applied for a card in your name only, or do you already have one? Because you should.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
Topic Author
lsk1
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by lsk1 »

delamer wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 3:26 pm
lsk1 wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 3:23 pm
delamer wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 3:04 pm
JackoC wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 2:42 pm
delamer wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 8:59 pm
But the spouse in the article had a lower income, not no income.
The CFPB rule from 2013 is here:
"Today, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) updated existing regulations to make it easier for spouses or partners who do not work outside of the home to qualify for credit cards."
"For credit card applicants who are 21 or older, the Bureau’s revision allows card issuers to consider third-party income if the applicant has a reasonable expectation of access to it."
https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-u ... dit-cards/

It doesn't say the issuer must issuer the card, but I think it puts an at-home spouse on solid ground not to worry they are violating any law by reporting the joint income if there are any joint accounts, legality being the thing to worry about IMO. I can't recall a card issuer following up with requests for proof of income, and I churn credit cards pretty often.
Interesting. Of course, if a divorce is imminent than “reasonable expectation of access” might ge in question.

Just to be clear, I’m not arguing that the OP shouldn’t be able to obtain a credit card. I was just wondering about her ability to do so.

Maybe the OP should check her credit score.
I have a high credit score and have no problem getting a credit card any time. My score comes from mortgage info - present and past properties, joint checking, paid cars, being a guarantor for my kids apartments and other credit related accounts.
Excellent. Have you actually applied for a card in your name only, or do you already have one? Because you should.
I could apply and get it but I would need to pay credit from our joint checking (I don't have a separate income) and I don't want confrontation yet. I did get a small checking account and an ATM card of my own
BarbBrooklyn
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by BarbBrooklyn »

lsk1 wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 3:44 pm I could apply and get it but I would need to pay credit from our joint checking (I don't have a separate income) and I don't want confrontation yet. I did get a small checking account and an ATM card of my own
[ quote fixed by admin LadyGeek]

I'm glad you have some funds of your own.

Have you given any thought to getting a job? That seems really crucial to my way of looking at this. Not in the least about how it looks to the judge.
BarbBrooklyn | "The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."
delamer
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by delamer »

lsk1 wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 3:44 pm
delamer wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 3:26 pm
lsk1 wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 3:23 pm
delamer wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 3:04 pm
JackoC wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 2:42 pm
The CFPB rule from 2013 is here:
"Today, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) updated existing regulations to make it easier for spouses or partners who do not work outside of the home to qualify for credit cards."
"For credit card applicants who are 21 or older, the Bureau’s revision allows card issuers to consider third-party income if the applicant has a reasonable expectation of access to it."
https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-u ... dit-cards/

It doesn't say the issuer must issuer the card, but I think it puts an at-home spouse on solid ground not to worry they are violating any law by reporting the joint income if there are any joint accounts, legality being the thing to worry about IMO. I can't recall a card issuer following up with requests for proof of income, and I churn credit cards pretty often.
Interesting. Of course, if a divorce is imminent than “reasonable expectation of access” might ge in question.

Just to be clear, I’m not arguing that the OP shouldn’t be able to obtain a credit card. I was just wondering about her ability to do so.

Maybe the OP should check her credit score.
I have a high credit score and have no problem getting a credit card any time. My score comes from mortgage info - present and past properties, joint checking, paid cars, being a guarantor for my kids apartments and other credit related accounts.
Excellent. Have you actually applied for a card in your name only, or do you already have one? Because you should.
I could apply and get it but I would need to pay credit from our joint checking (I don't have a separate income) and I don't want confrontation yet. I did get a small checking account and an ATM card of my own
You could get a card, and either not use it immediately or put very small charges on it that you could pay off with your personal checking.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
BarbBrooklyn
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Location: NYC

Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by BarbBrooklyn »

YOU are the guarantor for your kids' apartments?
BarbBrooklyn | "The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."
Topic Author
lsk1
Posts: 36
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by lsk1 »

BarbBrooklyn wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 5:31 am YOU are the guarantor for your kids' apartments?
Yes, because they don't care where the income comes from.
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8foot7
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by 8foot7 »

I can’t help but notice you don’t seem to have responded to any of the advice to get a job.

How’s that going? Even $15/hr at Target makes a difference.

I can guarantee you that you’ll be “imputed” a minimum wage job even if you choose not to get one. That will affect your eligibility for and amount of support and alimony. Your kids are grown, you have no childcare responsibilities and I assume are not disabled to the point it prevents you from working. Your husband’s attorney will seize on this. Best to look as if you have your life as together as possible and remove that ammunition from his arguments.
Topic Author
lsk1
Posts: 36
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by lsk1 »

8foot7 wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 8:50 am I can’t help but notice you don’t seem to have responded to any of the advice to get a job.

How’s that going? Even $15/hr at Target makes a difference.

I can guarantee you that you’ll be “imputed” a minimum wage job even if you choose not to get one. That will affect your eligibility for and amount of support and alimony. Your kids are grown, you have no childcare responsibilities and I assume are not disabled to the point it prevents you from working. Your husband’s attorney will seize on this. Best to look as if you have your life as together as possible and remove that ammunition from his arguments.
I've heard it but It's hard to even wrap my head around it. I can't imagine being forced to work at Target. I am 61. I drive a Tesla. I have a very nice house. It seems awful. Right now I am trying to get a small business going but it takes time.
michaeljc70
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Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by michaeljc70 »

lsk1 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 9:15 am
MikeG62 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 6:09 am
lsk1 wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 10:05 am I am trying very hard to get a really good lawyer. It is not easy as I live in a small remote area. The local one is pressuring me to sign a retainer and is getting inpatient. I also spoke to a very good one, she is about an hour away but could come to my courthouse. It was 3 month ago. Her advise was to wait, see if I could live my life with him. I contacted her again couple of days ago and now her retainer quote went up from $25K to $50K. It seems unreasonable. Its a lot of money.
Unless I missed it, what was the reason given by this lawyer for doubling their retainer?

My experience regarding divorce attorney fees is exactly an "n of 1" (my SIL). She paid her lawyer a tiny fraction of what you are being quoted (and she lived in a HCOL area) - like 15% of that amount.

Your situation (as you've described it - assuming I have not missed something) does not sound complex at all. Nearly all assets aside from the home and funds in 529's are in tax deferred accounts (would be quite difficult for your spouse to make off with an outsized portion of that). It is not like you both have an outsized amount of money in taxable accounts spread all over the place or that your spouse owns a business where it would be easier to conceal assets. Get statements for all financial accounts before you serve your spouse so you have this information readily to hand.

Good luck. It's a tough process. This I know from watching my SIL go through it (and it took something on the order of 2 years start to finish - with a lot of waiting and delays along the way).
My husband is incorporated. He pays salary to himself and to his daughters. I have no access to to his business account.
One thing I would consider (bring to the attention of the lawyer) if this proceeds is the payments to the daughters. Do they legitimately work for him and are they paid market wages? If not, that is really part of his income that is then gifted to his daughters. Above you said one of his daughters lives in Europe but maybe these are other daughters. Unfortunately, having a business enables people (usually not legally) to hide income in a divorce.
DCChak
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:41 pm

Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by DCChak »

Duplicate post
Last edited by DCChak on Wed May 18, 2022 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
DCChak
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:41 pm

Re: Ways to protect myself [Prior to divorce]

Post by DCChak »

lsk1 wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 9:16 am
8foot7 wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 8:50 am I can’t help but notice you don’t seem to have responded to any of the advice to get a job.

How’s that going? Even $15/hr at Target makes a difference.

I can guarantee you that you’ll be “imputed” a minimum wage job even if you choose not to get one. That will affect your eligibility for and amount of support and alimony. Your kids are grown, you have no childcare responsibilities and I assume are not disabled to the point it prevents you from working. Your husband’s attorney will seize on this. Best to look as if you have your life as together as possible and remove that ammunition from his arguments.
I've heard it but It's hard to even wrap my head around it. I can't imagine being forced to work at Target. I am 61. I drive a Tesla. I have a very nice house. It seems awful. Right now I am trying to get a small business going but it takes time.
You are really gonna want to work on revising that line of potential deposition/trial testimony long before your husband's lawyers, or a jury, or a judge, get a hold of it. Find something that might be less, um "awful" for you. Maybe even leave the Tesla in the garage on the way to work.
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