Experience buying a new car recently?

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venus_06
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by venus_06 »

We recently bought a Toyota, it was a dealership that we bought our last car at and had good experience. We sent the prompt through Toyota's website on the model that we wanted. They emailed us a spec and OTD price but unfortunately by the time we responded the next day there was already a deposit on the car. However, they said there would be two more coming the following month, sent us specs and we found one that fit even better (had the one add-on that we really wanted, and minimal others, so it was a lower price base model). The dealership was selling at MSRP with no markups, which we felt was acceptable given the current market. Put in a $500 deposit, apparently they will refund the deposit because they can easily sell it to the next person. I think the car came 2-3 weeks later than what they originally estimated, but we were ok with that.
Jack FFR1846
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

vfinx wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 11:43 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:41 pmOn the chip shortage thing. Some things I'll rattle off. Remember I work for a chip company and if your car has apple car play it absolutely has at least one of our chips. I have not heard any lead time changes in the last week. 2 weeks ago, lead time went from 52 weeks to 60 weeks.
I am curious, what was the lead time before the shortage? Also, any chance the OEMs were hoarding the chips?

On a related note, recently news broke that BMW will have to ship cars that do not have Apple CarPlay or Android Auto due to the chip shortage. But what was more interesting is that the alternate chip that BMW is using can, and will, be patched via OTA to support it.
Before the chip shortage, standard lead time was 14 weeks.

OEMs aren't really able to hoard because for the most part, automotive buyers have been the hardest negotiators and use PECOS to get the parts as cheap as possible and often put in clauses that prices must drop X% every quarter. Selling to almost every other segment generates higher margins, so why would we give the auto OEMs the chips for less money?

In our most recent meeting, one of our competitors who just opened a new (2nd) fab is quoting 72 weeks standard lead time.

Any car with Apple Car Play has one of our chips. It doesn't work without it. Of course, we're not the only chip to make Car Play work.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid
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Watty
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Watty »

windaar wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:16 am This explains the short-sighted psychology of the salesman, but not why the dealership or auto company would allow it.
Many of the dealerships agreements were set up 70+ years ago and large dealerships have gotten state laws to favor them. It is very difficult for a manufacture to make any big changes.
RJC
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by RJC »

We just recently purchased a BMW SUV for below MSRP plus a few thousand off for getting a loan through them and their loyalty plan. It is taking us about a month to have it built and shipped out to the dealer.

Everything has been done through emails. $1000 deposit.
vfinx
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by vfinx »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 9:33 am Any car with Apple Car Play has one of our chips. It doesn't work without it.
Just curious, is this a licensing / patent issue? Even before Covid, I was under the impression that (well run) manufacturers had some discipline around supplier redundancy (e.g. Toyota's 60/20/20).
Valuethinker
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Valuethinker »

Watty wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 9:35 am
windaar wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:16 am This explains the short-sighted psychology of the salesman, but not why the dealership or auto company would allow it.
Many of the dealerships agreements were set up 70+ years ago and large dealerships have gotten state laws to favor them. It is very difficult for a manufacture to make any big changes.
Power Play: Elon Musk, Tesla and the bet of the century by Tim Higgins

This book has a bit about this. The US dealer system is an anachronism which is so entrenched it is very difficult to exit. Tesla took a state-by-state approach and basically found that in some states, if it had never used a dealer, it could avoid the dealer network. But in Texas, I think, they actually had to sell you a car out of state -- just a showroom that could not take orders in state. The auto dealers are like life insurance agents, pillars of the community & politics.

During the Chrysler and GM bankruptcies, I believe they shed some dealers. But they had to go that far to do so.

Dealer inventory was a way of managing production schedules & inventory for the big auto makers. In an age of online, electronic and "just in time" it probably shouldn't exist. But when the car market is "normal" again, and supply is exceeding demand, I can see car companies resorting to it again.

I do think dealer inventories will be structurally smaller than before-- which is slightly contradictory to the position I take in the previous paragraph.
Greywolf
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Greywolf »

Just had a family member purchase (order) a new Ford F-150.
Dealer stock was very limited with a 2k markup over MSRP. Basically take it or leave it.
We found a Ford dealer about 50 miles away taking orders for 2% below MSRP. Not great, but in todays market it was the best we could find. The truck included everything they wanted and the ordering process was quick and easy with no money down. The order was processed and an email from corporate Ford confirming the order was generated within 48 hours.
Expected delivery is around 4 months.
We’ll see if that holds up.
sippyCUP
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by sippyCUP »

Well, I just put down a deposit on a new Mazda 2022 CX-5, mid-range trim (S Preferred). I contacted 10+ Mazda dealerships in the southeast, and this was the best deal - MSRP plus $500 in doc fees. I was tempted to shop that price around, but I felt the chance of success was low (20% or lower), and upside of negotiation success was $500 or less, so I just bit the bullet before somebody else sneaked in to lay down a deposit. My local dealer was charging a 3k market adjustment, I actually did try to get him to drop it by sending him the winning quote, but he wouldn't budge much.

All things considered I'm feeling great. The CX-5 is built, it's in Japan, they have to ship it to the US, projected to arrive in July (knock on bamboo desk). Terrible market but I just waited too long to get a new car and this will be a big upgrade in safety and comfort.

Was gunning for a RAV4, but I found on a RAV4 forum that the latest generation has some roof leak issues due to holes stamped in roof for the rail assembly with inadequate grommets/gaskets. Pretty crazy and some people are getting headliners stained, electrical issues (side airbags in the A pillars, etc.). That in combination with 4k+ market adjustments from Toyota dealers put the nail in the coffin for the RAV4. I think the powertrain is probably solid but I think the roof leak thing is a pretty big design oversight IMO, and calls the rest of the body into question for me.
Typ997S
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Typ997S »

Watty wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:05 pm Has anyone found a web site which identifies the car models which have the best supply?
I used a site called www.kilter.com to track down the configuration of the BMW that I wanted, and which dealer(s) had it in stock. Worked very well for BMW in California, can't speak for other brands.

Data point for BMW, bought in California, March 21, 2022. Model: 2022 530e. Discount of $2k, plus $500 credit for using BMW financing (which I'll pay off in 4 months), plus California Clean Fuel Rebate (~$500) and ~$5300 Federal Tax Credit.
Johnny Thinwallet
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Johnny Thinwallet »

I'm curious - IF there is a looming recession - how that might impact the new car market. It appears that the chip shortage is still in full swing, but I'm wondering if demand starts to drop how things will play out.

My wife has been nagging me for more than a year to replace my car, which is a 2007 Accord with 187k miles. I'm trying to decide if it's worth buying new this summer or trying to wait out even longer. For what it's worth, there's nothing wrong with my 2007 other than it drinks oil and my wife doesn't like it.

If I'd buy a new car now, I'd simply buy a new 2022 Accord LX. My wife's car is a 2017 Accord LX, and we bought it new for $18,900 + TTL in 2017. That was an absolute steal of a deal, and I don't think I'd be able to replicate that in even a normal car market. But it stings to know that a 2022 version today of that same Model/Trim would probably run $27k+.
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Watty
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Watty »

Johnny Thinwallet wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 3:33 pm If I'd buy a new car now, I'd simply buy a new 2022 Accord LX. My wife's car is a 2017 Accord LX, and we bought it new for $18,900 + TTL in 2017. That was an absolute steal of a deal, and I don't think I'd be able to replicate that in even a normal car market. But it stings to know that a 2022 version today of that same Model/Trim would probably run $27k+.
According to the BLS inflation calculator $18900 in January of 2017 is worth $22,501 now.

https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

You also need to keep in mind that with the used car shortage you would also get thousands more for your 2007 Accord than you would if the car markets were normal.

If you can get a new car near MSRP and you have a good car to sell or trade it really is not all that bad of a time to buy a new car other than you might need to wait a few months for delivery with some models. Of course some models are in such short supply that they are selling well above MSRP.

I did not look at the Accord specifically but with all the new advanced safety features a 2017 and 2022 Accord are very different cars and at least to me having the better safety features is worth a good chunk of money.

It would be good to check to see if your 2007 Accord has ESC or not since that is a very important safety feature to have and it was not required until 2012.
Johnny Thinwallet
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Johnny Thinwallet »

Watty wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 4:41 pm
Johnny Thinwallet wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 3:33 pm If I'd buy a new car now, I'd simply buy a new 2022 Accord LX. My wife's car is a 2017 Accord LX, and we bought it new for $18,900 + TTL in 2017. That was an absolute steal of a deal, and I don't think I'd be able to replicate that in even a normal car market. But it stings to know that a 2022 version today of that same Model/Trim would probably run $27k+.
According to the BLS inflation calculator $18900 in January of 2017 is worth $22,501 now.

https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

You also need to keep in mind that with the used car shortage you would also get thousands more for your 2007 Accord than you would if the car markets were normal.

If you can get a new car near MSRP and you have a good car to sell or trade it really is not all that bad of a time to buy a new car other than you might need to wait a few months for delivery with some models. Of course some models are in such short supply that they are selling well above MSRP.

I did not look at the Accord specifically but with all the new advanced safety features a 2017 and 2022 Accord are very different cars and at least to me having the better safety features is worth a good chunk of money.

It would be good to check to see if your 2007 Accord has ESC or not since that is a very important safety feature to have and it was not required until 2012.
All good points, and I appreciate the thoughtful reply. The reason I'm thinking about this now is I prefer to buy the last model year of a generation, and with the Accord due for a redesign with the 2023 model that means I'm considering buying a 2022 before they're gone.

KBB's midpoint private party value for my 2007 is around $4,800 whereas trade-in is only $2,800. If I knew I could sell it for $4-5k that'd make it easier to tolerate paying MSRP for the new Accord. Not sure how much a dealer would give in a trade considering they'd just send it to wholesale auction anyway.
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Watty
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Watty »

Johnny Thinwallet wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 7:25 pm The reason I'm thinking about this now is I prefer to buy the last model year of a generation, and with the Accord due for a redesign with the 2023 model that means I'm considering buying a 2022 before they're gone.
At 187k miles and "drinks oil" there is a very real risk that it could die and not be worth fixing.

People have posted about needing to buy a replacement car in a hurry because their car was totaled or had a major problem that was not worth fixing and that is not a good situation to be in. At that point your car would be worth very little too.

Another consideration is that with inflation over 8% if that keeps up the cost of the car could be higher a year or two from now even if the supply problems improve.
Johnny Thinwallet wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 3:33 pm My wife has been nagging me for more than a year to replace my car.....
I don't have a clue what your financial situation is but if getting the replacement car is not a financial burden then I would go on and replace it. If you keep it for another 15 years and another 187k miles you will do just fine. :beer
1moreyr
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by 1moreyr »

My wife wanted a Jeep Wrangler. not the most fuel efficient vehicle.
On a Jeep forum, I found a dealer selling 6% below invoice on factory orders. They are a high volume dealer and get hundreds of cars. I don't know how they make money.

The dealer is a few states away. Our local dealer offered $200 over invoice for a factory order, but the out of state dealer was still $3K cheaper than that. (it's almost $4K off MSRP... I can't make this up...)

I ordered from the out of state dealer. I figure if it costs me $3K to fly out and pick it up (it won't)..... then my wife and I got a trip to Nashville out of it. My wait will be 4-6 months and that's ok.

I am not a Mopar guy but they have similar deals on trucks and other dodge/chrysler vehicles I believe.

The entire transaction has so far been by email. I am tracking the order with Jeep chat customer service....
Valuethinker
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Valuethinker »

Johnny Thinwallet wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 7:25 pm
Watty wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 4:41 pm
Johnny Thinwallet wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 3:33 pm If I'd buy a new car now, I'd simply buy a new 2022 Accord LX. My wife's car is a 2017 Accord LX, and we bought it new for $18,900 + TTL in 2017. That was an absolute steal of a deal, and I don't think I'd be able to replicate that in even a normal car market. But it stings to know that a 2022 version today of that same Model/Trim would probably run $27k+.
According to the BLS inflation calculator $18900 in January of 2017 is worth $22,501 now.

https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

You also need to keep in mind that with the used car shortage you would also get thousands more for your 2007 Accord than you would if the car markets were normal.

If you can get a new car near MSRP and you have a good car to sell or trade it really is not all that bad of a time to buy a new car other than you might need to wait a few months for delivery with some models. Of course some models are in such short supply that they are selling well above MSRP.

I did not look at the Accord specifically but with all the new advanced safety features a 2017 and 2022 Accord are very different cars and at least to me having the better safety features is worth a good chunk of money.

It would be good to check to see if your 2007 Accord has ESC or not since that is a very important safety feature to have and it was not required until 2012.
All good points, and I appreciate the thoughtful reply. The reason I'm thinking about this now is I prefer to buy the last model year of a generation, and with the Accord due for a redesign with the 2023 model that means I'm considering buying a 2022 before they're gone.

KBB's midpoint private party value for my 2007 is around $4,800 whereas trade-in is only $2,800. If I knew I could sell it for $4-5k that'd make it easier to tolerate paying MSRP for the new Accord. Not sure how much a dealer would give in a trade considering they'd just send it to wholesale auction anyway.
Does $2k more on a used car really make a big difference to your purchase?

You have to view these things separately. Selling the car is a nice-to-have problem if it's worth more than you think. Plus you take a thing that still has useful life, and it goes into the hands of someone who likely can only afford that much, and need it to live/ work in modern America. That's worth something in this world. We always gave away our old cars to family friends (my father would generally keep a car 10-15 years: so Dodge Dart, Chrysler Le Baron, Dad died when he was thinking about buying his 3rd Honda Accord, and my niece had the 2nd one as her first car of her own).

As to paying MSRP. You are lucky if you can get a popular car at only that. There's no sign the shortages which are afflicting the world car industry will be over soon. Maybe things will be normal by the Sept 2023 new model year. But 12 months ago I would have suggested Sept 2022 -- it keeps moving out.

If you need a new car, and you like the Honda, and you can afford it at the MSRP then... you know what you need to do.
Valuethinker
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Valuethinker »

Johnny Thinwallet wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 3:33 pm I'm curious - IF there is a looming recession - how that might impact the new car market. It appears that the chip shortage is still in full swing, but I'm wondering if demand starts to drop how things will play out.

My wife has been nagging me for more than a year to replace my car, which is a 2007 Accord with 187k miles. I'm trying to decide if it's worth buying new this summer or trying to wait out even longer. For what it's worth, there's nothing wrong with my 2007 other than it drinks oil and my wife doesn't like it.

If I'd buy a new car now, I'd simply buy a new 2022 Accord LX. My wife's car is a 2017 Accord LX, and we bought it new for $18,900 + TTL in 2017. That was an absolute steal of a deal, and I don't think I'd be able to replicate that in even a normal car market. But it stings to know that a 2022 version today of that same Model/Trim would probably run $27k+.
The car and chip shortage is global.

The US might go into recession. Europe is almost certain to do so due to the energy crisis (moving off Russian gas, etc). Honda is not a big seller in Europe in any case. But China might not go into recession.

There's a lot of frustrated demand for cars right now. You can see it in used car prices. I don't think that demand will suddenly be cut off-- even in a recession most people stay employed and earning money. I think the carmakers will be racing for a couple of years at least to meet unsatisfied demand.

If you need a new car you need a new car. The price is just what it is - can you afford it, or not? You got a good deal on a 2017 car, but 2022 is a very different world in so many ways.
sippyCUP
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by sippyCUP »

At 187k miles and "drinks oil" there is a very real risk that it could die and not be worth fixing.
Hey, my truck has 188k and it drinks oil too! 😉

But honestly not concerned with the oil consumption, more the overall mileage (powertrain longevity) and improvements in safety / reduction in noise level.

Edit: my experience from perusing bobistheoilguy.com is that oil consumption in old cars is quite manageable and doesn’t foretell imminent failure.
leo383
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by leo383 »

We very recently bought a new Toyota Prius. We went in to the dealer, ordered the car we wanted with the specs we wanted and placed a refundable $500 deposit. They gave us a printed quote right at MSRP.

The car took 8 weeks to come in. The day it came in we went in and financed it with the best deal Toyota had at the time. I believe 1.9%.

There were no shenanigans over price, features, etc. It was the least painful experience I have ever had buying a car.

In days past I could have gotten maybe $1-2k off of MSRP but the game the last couple years is different.
Johnny Thinwallet
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Johnny Thinwallet »

Watty wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 7:52 pm
Johnny Thinwallet wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 7:25 pm The reason I'm thinking about this now is I prefer to buy the last model year of a generation, and with the Accord due for a redesign with the 2023 model that means I'm considering buying a 2022 before they're gone.
At 187k miles and "drinks oil" there is a very real risk that it could die and not be worth fixing.

People have posted about needing to buy a replacement car in a hurry because their car was totaled or had a major problem that was not worth fixing and that is not a good situation to be in. At that point your car would be worth very little too.

Another consideration is that with inflation over 8% if that keeps up the cost of the car could be higher a year or two from now even if the supply problems improve.
Johnny Thinwallet wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 3:33 pm My wife has been nagging me for more than a year to replace my car.....
I don't have a clue what your financial situation is but if getting the replacement car is not a financial burden then I would go on and replace it. If you keep it for another 15 years and another 187k miles you will do just fine. :beer
I'm not terribly concerned about the oil consumption issues ... yet. My previous car was a 1996 Saturn, which had serious oil consumption issues, and at the end of its life in 2007 was consuming 1 quart for every 100 miles driven. That's not a typo either. This was my college car that finally gave out at 210k miles shortly after I graduated. All I had at the time was $7k in a savings account and a new job paying me $35k per year. I took a chance buying a $20k car at the time, but my plan was take care of it, drive it as long as possible and things will likely work out. Here I am, 15 years and 187k miles later. It worked out. :beer

By comparison, the 2007 Accord is consuming 1 quart for every 1,100 miles driven now. The oil consumption is a known/common issue with the i4 engines from the 03-07 Accord generation.

The safety enhancements now vs. 2007 is a legit point, as is both inflation pushing the costs of a 2023 car higher and the possibility that I might need to order a car and wait several weeks.

In short, yes we can afford a new Accord LX and I can pay cash for it if I wanted to do so we'll probably start getting more serious about it soon.

I'd probably consider trading in the 2007, which would be a first for me. I've always sold our old cars private party to get a bit more money out of them. But I figure the average Joe would probably run away from a car consuming oil (I'd be honest and tell potential buyers). A car guy or an Accord enthusiast probably wouldn't care.
Johnny Thinwallet
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Johnny Thinwallet »

Valuethinker wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 5:01 am
Johnny Thinwallet wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 3:33 pm I'm curious - IF there is a looming recession - how that might impact the new car market. It appears that the chip shortage is still in full swing, but I'm wondering if demand starts to drop how things will play out.

My wife has been nagging me for more than a year to replace my car, which is a 2007 Accord with 187k miles. I'm trying to decide if it's worth buying new this summer or trying to wait out even longer. For what it's worth, there's nothing wrong with my 2007 other than it drinks oil and my wife doesn't like it.

If I'd buy a new car now, I'd simply buy a new 2022 Accord LX. My wife's car is a 2017 Accord LX, and we bought it new for $18,900 + TTL in 2017. That was an absolute steal of a deal, and I don't think I'd be able to replicate that in even a normal car market. But it stings to know that a 2022 version today of that same Model/Trim would probably run $27k+.
The car and chip shortage is global.

The US might go into recession. Europe is almost certain to do so due to the energy crisis (moving off Russian gas, etc). Honda is not a big seller in Europe in any case. But China might not go into recession.

There's a lot of frustrated demand for cars right now. You can see it in used car prices. I don't think that demand will suddenly be cut off-- even in a recession most people stay employed and earning money. I think the carmakers will be racing for a couple of years at least to meet unsatisfied demand.

If you need a new car you need a new car. The price is just what it is - can you afford it, or not? You got a good deal on a 2017 car, but 2022 is a very different world in so many ways.
Yes, the demand question was my original question. Obviously nobody knows so it's a guessing game all around, but I'm interested in hearing different perspectives/guesses. I'd be kicking myself if I bought a car this summer but then 6 to 9 months later car dealerships are well-stocked and willing to negotiate like it's 2017 (or 2019) again. I don't think that's going to happen, but curious if others may have a different perspective.

Inventory still hasn't returned here locally. One dealership family appears to have a bit more inventory ... if their website is actually accurate. Otherwise it seems that most dealerships are still just taking orders.

FWIW, I kicked the tires on this same decision back in September 2021. I had a repair + routine maintenance due on the 2007 so I weighed the replace vs. repair decision. Obviously I went with repair + getting updated on routine maintenance and stuck $800 in the car. That was 8 months and 7k miles ago. I talked to a number of dealers and actually test drove a new Accord. Dealers hounded me for a while afterward, but they wouldn't budge one dollar on price, not even in a competition with other dealers. Sounds like I suspect it'll be no different this summer once again.
Valuethinker
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Valuethinker »

Johnny Thinwallet wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 11:39 am
Valuethinker wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 5:01 am
Johnny Thinwallet wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 3:33 pm I'm curious - IF there is a looming recession - how that might impact the new car market. It appears that the chip shortage is still in full swing, but I'm wondering if demand starts to drop how things will play out.

My wife has been nagging me for more than a year to replace my car, which is a 2007 Accord with 187k miles. I'm trying to decide if it's worth buying new this summer or trying to wait out even longer. For what it's worth, there's nothing wrong with my 2007 other than it drinks oil and my wife doesn't like it.

If I'd buy a new car now, I'd simply buy a new 2022 Accord LX. My wife's car is a 2017 Accord LX, and we bought it new for $18,900 + TTL in 2017. That was an absolute steal of a deal, and I don't think I'd be able to replicate that in even a normal car market. But it stings to know that a 2022 version today of that same Model/Trim would probably run $27k+.
The car and chip shortage is global.

The US might go into recession. Europe is almost certain to do so due to the energy crisis (moving off Russian gas, etc). Honda is not a big seller in Europe in any case. But China might not go into recession.

There's a lot of frustrated demand for cars right now. You can see it in used car prices. I don't think that demand will suddenly be cut off-- even in a recession most people stay employed and earning money. I think the carmakers will be racing for a couple of years at least to meet unsatisfied demand.

If you need a new car you need a new car. The price is just what it is - can you afford it, or not? You got a good deal on a 2017 car, but 2022 is a very different world in so many ways.
Yes, the demand question was my original question. Obviously nobody knows so it's a guessing game all around, but I'm interested in hearing different perspectives/guesses. I'd be kicking myself if I bought a car this summer but then 6 to 9 months later car dealerships are well-stocked and willing to negotiate like it's 2017 (or 2019) again. I don't think that's going to happen, but curious if others may have a different perspective.
I believe Japanese manufacturers have had particular semiconductor supply issues due to problems with their suppliers (factory fire, small tsunami?).

Generally unless we have a sudden & deep recession a la 2008 I just don't see there being a big downturn in demand. Too many people who wanted to buy, but could not. And this is a global thing. Europe could well be in quite a deep recession next year: if we hit cold weather at the same time as the Russian natural gas tap is turned off. But rest-of-world? I don't see it.

I don't think this is something that will correct itself in 9 months time. BUT I am some random stranger on the internet (who hasn't bought a car in 20 years, either).

Many (most?) Boglehead posters say $3k on a new car is just not material to their accumulation strategies. It's only a game to them in terms of getting the best price. Not actually worth worrying about if they can get the car they want. $3k is a small change in the finish on a new kitchen or floor - and believe me, in that world you are settling for 3rd or 4th or 5th choice right now because of supply issues...
Inventory still hasn't returned here locally. One dealership family appears to have a bit more inventory ... if their website is actually accurate. Otherwise it seems that most dealerships are still just taking orders.

FWIW, I kicked the tires on this same decision back in September 2021. I had a repair + routine maintenance due on the 2007 so I weighed the replace vs. repair decision. Obviously I went with repair + getting updated on routine maintenance and stuck $800 in the car. That was 8 months and 7k miles ago. I talked to a number of dealers and actually test drove a new Accord. Dealers hounded me for a while afterward, but they wouldn't budge one dollar on price, not even in a competition with other dealers. Sounds like I suspect it'll be no different this summer once again.
At the amount of mileage you are doing you may be running out of road with this car.

If you can get MSRP then that's probably doing quite well. It's a harder call if higher than MSRP, but I would probably be willing to pay it if it was, say, 5%.
Valuethinker
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Valuethinker »

AerialWombat wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 11:49 am
mpnret wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:18 pm As far as Tesla goes, over a year ago I scheduled a test drive online, went to the dealership, my phone directed me to the car and unlocked it. Did my test drive, returned it, went home and ordered one online. It came in in less than a month and the pickup process was about the same as a test drive. All financials done online. No salesman involved. I don't miss the salesman/finance guy trying to talk me into paint protectant, window etching and all the other markup stuff.
Something akin to this process has been the norm in many countries for decades. As can be seen from other comments, this has become the situation at many U.S. dealerships due to the current supply chain issues. I personally think that it would behoove Americans to embrace this car shopping paradigm, as I have a hard time thinking that domestic manufacturers will want to return to the old ways of maintaining many months of unsold inventory sitting on dealer lots, and all the costs that incurs.
There are some powerful institutional forces at work (the legal situation with car dealerships in 50 different states) which tend to push it back towards the norm. Good habits right now (low inventories) were forced on them. Come normal service, I could see car manufacturers & dealers going back to the old relationship.

This is another case where Tesla has "lapped" the competition - reinventing the business model.
I anticipate that my next vehicle will be a used battery electric vehicle. But I also anticipate that my current car will last at least another 10 years. I have recently given consideration to purchasing a backup car, something old that I can wrench on myself and that has plentiful spare parts availability
There's merit in that approach.

Road accident death rates in the USA are going absolutely the wrong way. Many possible explanations as to why. But it does say to me that up to date safety equipment is worth something.
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TnGuy
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by TnGuy »

TnGuy wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:42 pm Ordered a Ford Edge (Titanium) for the wife back in October. Took until this week to get built. Not expected to arrive at the dealer until the end of May (6 months, total).

Ordered a Ford F-150 (Lariat) for me back in August of last year. Had to forget that one when the 2021 models stopped being produced in December. Then, placed an order for a 2022 model. Still no word on when it will enter production (8 months and counting....).

Have been told that in both cases it's been a combination of temporary plant shutdowns for covid and for continuing chip shortages.

UPDATE:

The Edge came in last week. We ended up paying ~$4,500 < than MSRP (~9% below) due to rebates and using the Ford X-plan. Also, by using the X-plan there are no dealer add-on fees.

The F-150 is now scheduled to be built in mid-June.


David
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by drk »

I'm not actually in the market, but seeing an old Corvette thread bumped to the front page piqued my curiosity about what new ones are going for. A local dealer has one in transit listed for $62k MSRP + $150 doc fee + $20k just-because fee. Woof.
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Aged Maduro
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Aged Maduro »

One can only hope that the traditional automobile dealership model goes extinct. The car salesman, and most middlemen for that matter, offer little to no value to the consumer. I like the model that Carvana uses. They bring the car to you and let you test drive it for a few days. If you don't like it you can give it back. If you want to buy it you can have it for their best "haggle free" price.

This same model can be used for new cars of all brands with most all of the transaction being conducted online. The best part is you will never have to walk inside a car dealership and talk to a salesman ever again.
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Fremdon Ferndock
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Fremdon Ferndock »

Aged Maduro wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 6:28 pm One can only hope that the traditional automobile dealership model goes extinct. The car salesman, and most middlemen for that matter, offer little to no value to the consumer. I like the model that Carvana uses. They bring the car to you and let you test drive it for a few days. If you don't like it you can give it back. If you want to buy it you can have it for their best "haggle free" price.

This same model can be used for new cars of all brands with most all of the transaction being conducted online. The best part is you will never have to walk inside a car dealership and talk to a salesman ever again.
I dunno. I agree with everything you said, but on the other hand the main reason I kept my cars so long was the thought of having to deal with car salespeople to buy a new one. :dollar
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Valuethinker
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Valuethinker »

Aged Maduro wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 6:28 pm One can only hope that the traditional automobile dealership model goes extinct. The car salesman, and most middlemen for that matter, offer little to no value to the consumer. I like the model that Carvana uses. They bring the car to you and let you test drive it for a few days. If you don't like it you can give it back. If you want to buy it you can have it for their best "haggle free" price.

This same model can be used for new cars of all brands with most all of the transaction being conducted online. The best part is you will never have to walk inside a car dealership and talk to a salesman ever again.
There's a thicket of 50 states with different laws on this one.

Which are all there to protect the traditional auto dealership.

Tesla was able to hop around them. For example it had a showroom in Texas, but your actual order was processed in another state. In fact I believe, at least for a time, you had to go to that other state for delivery.

But in part that was because Tesla had never had a dealership in those states. In fact in New Jersey (?I am forgetting the detail of the book) that it was basically impossible for Tesla to have a showroom, even.
jpelder
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by jpelder »

I had a decent experience, although a long wait time.

I ordered a new Subaru Outback from my local dealer in December. They're charging MSRP, as nothing stays on the lot for long. I was able to test drive a similar one to the one I ordered (a rare un-allocated one had just come in the morning I called). The original estimated delivery data was beginning of April. Subaru has apparently prioritized making Outbacks with sunroofs, and I ordered one without a sunroof. Finally got my VIN at the end of April, and as of May 12, the car was loaded onto the train at the plant in Indiana. My dealer says the estimated delivery date is now June 4.

The good news is that my current car, while getting unreliable, still functions, so I could afford the wait. It's also worth more now than it was in February of 2020, despite having 20,000 more miles on it. So that will be a benefit.
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Johnny Thinwallet »

Valuethinker wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 12:33 pm If you can get MSRP then that's probably doing quite well. It's a harder call if higher than MSRP, but I would probably be willing to pay it if it was, say, 5%.
Contacted the 3 largest Honda dealers in my local area today. Two of the three said the only Accords they have coming in are higher level trims. The one dealer who could land an LX said it'd be a 20 percent markup above MSRP. One of them claimed that there would only be 8 LX trims delivered anywhere in the entire state between now and the end of July. Whether that's true or conjecture, who knows.

There are two more Honda dealers local that I'll contact this weekend, but they're smaller outfits so I'm not expecting much. This feels like I'm looking for a unicorn.
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by mmmodem »

We went to two Toyota dealerships looking for a Sienna. Both said the same thing. Neither will take our deposit. Neither will put us on a waiting list. Neither will order one for us. They have nothing. The only thing they could do was put us a call list. When a Sienna is confirmed to be delivered they call each person on the list and the first person to show up at the dealership with financing wins gets to buy the vehicle.

I told them we are perfectly happy giving them a deposit and they can call me back in two years (their wild guess on when the factory will allow them to order again) They refused. The first dealership said we can be first on the call list on a more expensive trim than we wanted coming in 8 weeks with an additional $10k markup. The second dealership only sold at MSRP so they have nothing.

I'm trying to convince DW to get a Tesla Model Y instead. At least Tesla is perfectly willing to take our deposit and we can wait until their April 2023 estimated delivery. And if we're paying markup, it will be that much anyway at this rate.

I just don't understand what is wrong with a waiting list and a deposit. I can wait. I just don't want to rush to the dealership and take whatever model and color they have available. Let me order exactly what I want and I will wait 24+ months.
CletusCaddy
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by CletusCaddy »

mmmodem wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 12:59 pm We went to two Toyota dealerships looking for a Sienna. Both said the same thing. Neither will take our deposit. Neither will put us on a waiting list. Neither will order one for us. They have nothing. The only thing they could do was put us a call list. When a Sienna is confirmed to be delivered they call each person on the list and the first person to show up at the dealership with financing wins gets to buy the vehicle.

I told them we are perfectly happy giving them a deposit and they can call me back in two years (their wild guess on when the factory will allow them to order again) They refused. The first dealership said we can be first on the call list on a more expensive trim than we wanted coming in 8 weeks with an additional $10k markup. The second dealership only sold at MSRP so they have nothing.

I'm trying to convince DW to get a Tesla Model Y instead. At least Tesla is perfectly willing to take our deposit and we can wait until their April 2023 estimated delivery. And if we're paying markup, it will be that much anyway at this rate.

I just don't understand what is wrong with a waiting list and a deposit. I can wait. I just don't want to rush to the dealership and take whatever model and color they have available. Let me order exactly what I want and I will wait 24+ months.
This kind of story is why I am perfectly happy reserving and paying MSRP for the new Cadillac Lyriq. It will likely turn out to be one of my better financial decisions.
Valuethinker
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Valuethinker »

Johnny Thinwallet wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 8:09 pm
Valuethinker wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 12:33 pm If you can get MSRP then that's probably doing quite well. It's a harder call if higher than MSRP, but I would probably be willing to pay it if it was, say, 5%.
Contacted the 3 largest Honda dealers in my local area today. Two of the three said the only Accords they have coming in are higher level trims. The one dealer who could land an LX said it'd be a 20 percent markup above MSRP. One of them claimed that there would only be 8 LX trims delivered anywhere in the entire state between now and the end of July. Whether that's true or conjecture, who knows.

There are two more Honda dealers local that I'll contact this weekend, but they're smaller outfits so I'm not expecting much. This feels like I'm looking for a unicorn.
What you say is consistent with everything I have heard especially re Japanese manufacturers.

It's not a situation where the buyer gets much choice other than to possibly switch make & model.
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

vfinx wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 11:30 am
Jack FFR1846 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 9:33 am Any car with Apple Car Play has one of our chips. It doesn't work without it.
Just curious, is this a licensing / patent issue? Even before Covid, I was under the impression that (well run) manufacturers had some discipline around supplier redundancy (e.g. Toyota's 60/20/20).
Nope. Our chip does what's needed and for reasons I don't really know, nobody else can do.
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pennywise
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by pennywise »

windaar wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:16 am
pennywise wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:43 pm
Because right now they don't need your business, but they know you need their product. They also know if you walk out there are plenty of folks to take your place in the purchasing queue.

There will come the day when the salesman who treated you shabbily will eagerly rush to greet you and work hard to earn your purchase.

This is not that day.
This explains the short-sighted psychology of the salesman, but not why the dealership or auto company would allow it. I'll never be going back to that particular dealership, and have also started checking out competitive brands which is the last thing the company wants. They're also getting negative word of mouth as I talk cars with friends and colleagues. All because a salesman couldn't be bothered to be pleasant with me and answer a simple e-mail.
Right, YOU won't go back and perhaps other Boglehead-like minded folks feel the same.

However Bogleheads reflect a very small subset of consumer sentiment.

If 99%+ of the car buying population will tolerate this and/or forget it by the time they are ready to buy another car...the dealers aren't too worried about you and me and a small handful of other customers who won't.
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Johnny Thinwallet »

Valuethinker wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 3:52 am
Johnny Thinwallet wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 8:09 pm
Valuethinker wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 12:33 pm If you can get MSRP then that's probably doing quite well. It's a harder call if higher than MSRP, but I would probably be willing to pay it if it was, say, 5%.
Contacted the 3 largest Honda dealers in my local area today. Two of the three said the only Accords they have coming in are higher level trims. The one dealer who could land an LX said it'd be a 20 percent markup above MSRP. One of them claimed that there would only be 8 LX trims delivered anywhere in the entire state between now and the end of July. Whether that's true or conjecture, who knows.

There are two more Honda dealers local that I'll contact this weekend, but they're smaller outfits so I'm not expecting much. This feels like I'm looking for a unicorn.
What you say is consistent with everything I have heard especially re Japanese manufacturers.

It's not a situation where the buyer gets much choice other than to possibly switch make & model.
Well as it turned out one of those two other dealers has come through ... so far. We just put an order and placed a deposit on a new 2022 Accord Sport. Not the LX I preferred, but one trim level up isn't so bad. Their offer was MSRP + $225 accessory purchase, which we are ok with.

The one thing that could snarl things, though, is that there is a small chance the car may never be built. The current build date is the last week of August, with estimated delivery in mid-September. But the dealer said there's a small chance Honda may cancel out all remaining 2022s when they decide to release the 2023s. Fingers crossed that doesn't happen, especially since there's been no news at all on the 2023 redesign as of now.
Tonygis
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Tonygis »

I went to 3 auto dealers in Phoenix last week.
2022 Soul LX MSRP 21580
Mkt Adjustment. 4000
Dealer add ons. 2700
Total. 28280

2022 Civic Sport MSRP 25045
Mkt adjustment. 3000
Desert protection? 1895
Total. 29440

2022 Toyota Corolla LE MSRP 22028
Mkt Adjustment 4000
Dealer installed accessories. 3568
Total. 29596

These are crazy times. I will be trying other dealers next week.
anoop
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by anoop »

Test drove a bz4x AWD XLE yesterday and dealer wanted $20k over MSRP of $44k. Sales guy said they refused an offer for $10k over but were open to negotiating a number between $10k and $20k. He told me the ford dealer was asking for $30k over msrp for Mach e.

For now, I just bought an extended warranty for my MY 2019 car. But I have a feeling this is the new normal because of supply. If the fed crashes the economy (not slows it) things may be different. If they just try to slow it, supply will tighten to match demand.
H-Town
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by H-Town »

Aged Maduro wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 6:28 pm One can only hope that the traditional automobile dealership model goes extinct. The car salesman, and most middlemen for that matter, offer little to no value to the consumer. I like the model that Carvana uses. They bring the car to you and let you test drive it for a few days. If you don't like it you can give it back. If you want to buy it you can have it for their best "haggle free" price.

This same model can be used for new cars of all brands with most all of the transaction being conducted online. The best part is you will never have to walk inside a car dealership and talk to a salesman ever again.
What if there is a recall? What if you need to bring your car in for routine maintenance, software upgrade, or repair under warranty?

You don’t have to put up with salesman. You don’t have to listen to them. If they keep talking, politely tell them to be quiet and give you time to think and process. You’re a customer and hold the power with your $50k check.
Time is the ultimate currency.
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Stinky
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Stinky »

mmmodem wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 12:59 pm We went to two Toyota dealerships looking for a Sienna. Both said the same thing. Neither will take our deposit. Neither will put us on a waiting list. Neither will order one for us. They have nothing. The only thing they could do was put us a call list. When a Sienna is confirmed to be delivered they call each person on the list and the first person to show up at the dealership with financing wins gets to buy the vehicle.

I told them we are perfectly happy giving them a deposit and they can call me back in two years (their wild guess on when the factory will allow them to order again) They refused. The first dealership said we can be first on the call list on a more expensive trim than we wanted coming in 8 weeks with an additional $10k markup. The second dealership only sold at MSRP so they have nothing.

I'm trying to convince DW to get a Tesla Model Y instead. At least Tesla is perfectly willing to take our deposit and we can wait until their April 2023 estimated delivery. And if we're paying markup, it will be that much anyway at this rate.

I just don't understand what is wrong with a waiting list and a deposit. I can wait. I just don't want to rush to the dealership and take whatever model and color they have available. Let me order exactly what I want and I will wait 24+ months.
We visited our local Toyota dealership looking for a Sienna. They took our $1,000 deposit and put us on their list. They are selling at MSRP, plus the Southeast Toyota add-ons. No guarantees, but hopefully we’ll have a car in 3-4 months, which is just fine with me.
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Valuethinker
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Valuethinker »

H-Town wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:29 am
Aged Maduro wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 6:28 pm One can only hope that the traditional automobile dealership model goes extinct. The car salesman, and most middlemen for that matter, offer little to no value to the consumer. I like the model that Carvana uses. They bring the car to you and let you test drive it for a few days. If you don't like it you can give it back. If you want to buy it you can have it for their best "haggle free" price.

This same model can be used for new cars of all brands with most all of the transaction being conducted online. The best part is you will never have to walk inside a car dealership and talk to a salesman ever again.
What if there is a recall? What if you need to bring your car in for routine maintenance, software upgrade, or repair under warranty?

You don’t have to put up with salesman. You don’t have to listen to them. If they keep talking, politely tell them to be quiet and give you time to think and process. You’re a customer and hold the power with your $50k check.
The dealership will evolve into a service centre & showroom. Arrange financing.

The main obstacles are institutional. The existence of a thicket of laws around automotive franchises etc. That book I mention above on Tesla gives a few case examples of same. It will take a very long time for that to break down.

Historically the dealer networks have suited the automotive industry. A way of "stuffing" the channel with inventory when there's a production target to be met (there's an optimum run rate on any production line & so the car companies used to use dealer inventory to manage that).

The current supply chain crisis has reacquainted companies with the virtues of having "excess" inventory. So maybe we go back to car dealerships like that.

But having thoroughly destocked the channel, maybe car companies will see the virtues of "build and ship to order" and also selling by package (that seems to be way things go in Europe - if you want a particular option, you have to buy that level of package). Got religion and won't lose it again. Maybe.
vfinx
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by vfinx »

A surprisingly optimistic update from the German automakers regarding the chip shortage. The article makes no mention of increased chip production, but rather a softening demand for other products that were competing for the same chips.

The article also seems to suggest that prices will continue to increase, but availability may improve. This is due to automakers resorting to the use of more expensive chips, and passing that cost to the customer. A small consolation.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... owth-slows
m@ver1ck
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by m@ver1ck »

We put down a deposit on an ID4 - 10 months or so ago. Got our car two months ago. 0 hassles. Everything was online and the local dealer is awesome to work with - so no surprises etc.
Valuethinker
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Valuethinker »

m@ver1ck wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 1:10 am We put down a deposit on an ID4 - 10 months or so ago. Got our car two months ago. 0 hassles. Everything was online and the local dealer is awesome to work with - so no surprises etc.
This was in the USA?
m@ver1ck
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by m@ver1ck »

Valuethinker wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:28 am
m@ver1ck wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 1:10 am We put down a deposit on an ID4 - 10 months or so ago. Got our car two months ago. 0 hassles. Everything was online and the local dealer is awesome to work with - so no surprises etc.
This was in the USA?
Yes. Seattle area - university VW.

And yes - looking at the thread my experience with local Toyota guys was awful.
DesertDiva
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by DesertDiva »

DH is looking at hybrid Ford F-150 trucks. Dealers are tacking on $5k or more to the MSRP with a “take it or leave it” approach.
Mike Scott
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Mike Scott »

I've been car shopping off and on the last couple of weeks. After some review, I settled on a brand and range of models. There are about 25 dealers within a couple hundred miles. Most of them will not take deposits on anything that is not on their shipping list and pretty much everything on their list is already sold. They really don't have anything to sell right now except a few of the highest level option models. I had great communication from one particular dealer and I would happily buy from them but they do not have anything available for several months. I'm on their "call" list if something comes up. Some of them seem really annoyed when I ask about what they have posted on their website as available. Shrug. One dealer said they had what I wanted in stock but stopped communicating when I tried to buy it. Another dealer tried really hard to convince me that their price for a model they did not actually have was a really great deal by showing me a different dealers website. I must admit I laughed at him. A different dealer said they had what I wanted in stock but at roughly 30% over MSRP.

Meanwhile, I will spend a few hundred $ on my old clunker and keep looking. I think I can keep it going for a few more months before the wheels really do come off.
Valuethinker
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Valuethinker »

m@ver1ck wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:43 am
Valuethinker wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:28 am
m@ver1ck wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 1:10 am We put down a deposit on an ID4 - 10 months or so ago. Got our car two months ago. 0 hassles. Everything was online and the local dealer is awesome to work with - so no surprises etc.
This was in the USA?
Yes. Seattle area - university VW.

And yes - looking at the thread my experience with local Toyota guys was awful.
The speed at which EVs are being rolled out -- c 10% of world sales, when 5 years ago they were a rounding error. The ID series do look nice.

I hope it meets your expectations and proves to be a good decision.

Right now Toyota dealers are in a situation where they can name their price *but* they cannot get the cars. They probably get quite a lot of hostile customer reactions.

My aunt (Canada) has taken a delivery of a RAV hybrid for about list price. Probably on the basis that she/ her partner have bought one or equivalent every 5 years for the last 25 from this dealer--loyal repeat customer in a rural area. He no doubt figures he will get it back, in very good condition**, in a few years time as a trade in.

**"One careful old lady driver who mostly drove it locally. To church and to haul trailers & farm equipment down unpaved roads from the gravel pit"
Geronkas
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Geronkas »

Tonygis wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 7:55 pm I went to 3 auto dealers in Phoenix last week.
2022 Soul LX MSRP 21580
Mkt Adjustment. 4000
Dealer add ons. 2700
Total. 28280

2022 Civic Sport MSRP 25045
Mkt adjustment. 3000
Desert protection? 1895
Total. 29440

2022 Toyota Corolla LE MSRP 22028
Mkt Adjustment 4000
Dealer installed accessories. 3568
Total. 29596

These are crazy times. I will be trying other dealers next week.

We just purchased a Toyota Corolla Cross for our daughter at MSRP from Surprise Toyota; Surprise is only about 30 minutes from Phoenix, might be worth your time to check it out since you have a Toyota on your list. I was actually surprised at the MSRP price, and in today’s environment I consider it a good deal. There was no market adjustment, and dealer installed accessories was $250. The only other thing we had to pay was sales tax and registration. Good luck in your search.
adamthesmythe
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Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by adamthesmythe »

Geronkas wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:50 pm
Tonygis wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 7:55 pm I went to 3 auto dealers in Phoenix last week.
2022 Soul LX MSRP 21580
Mkt Adjustment. 4000
Dealer add ons. 2700
Total. 28280

2022 Civic Sport MSRP 25045
Mkt adjustment. 3000
Desert protection? 1895
Total. 29440

2022 Toyota Corolla LE MSRP 22028
Mkt Adjustment 4000
Dealer installed accessories. 3568
Total. 29596

These are crazy times. I will be trying other dealers next week.

We just purchased a Toyota Corolla Cross for our daughter at MSRP from Surprise Toyota; Surprise is only about 30 minutes from Phoenix, might be worth your time to check it out since you have a Toyota on your list. I was actually surprised at the MSRP price, and in today’s environment I consider it a good deal. There was no market adjustment, and dealer installed accessories was $250. The only other thing we had to pay was sales tax and registration. Good luck in your search.
The Corolla Cross is a new model (making some reluctant to consider it) and it is not clear what its niche in the market is. So lower demand, it might be a buy these days.
Detroittl
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:12 am

Re: Experience buying a new car recently?

Post by Detroittl »

Bought a 2022 bmw 330e, placed order late February got it late May. Super easy all over the phone. Picked all the options I wanted. $500 under MSRP.
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