Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

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David Jay
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by David Jay »

McDougal wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:20 amDoes this mean maybe it really doesn't matter that much?
There are some edge cases where it makes a big difference.

For those who are well provided, it doesn't matter much. I strongly recommend Mike Piper's program: http://opensocialsecurity.com because it shows a recommendation but has a neat graph which shows how little difference it makes. For me, the difference between age 68 and age 70 (married, higher earner) was about $8000 lifetime, or significantly less than 1% of total anticipated benefits.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by JoeRetire »

BarbBrooklyn wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:17 am What has surprised me is the number of my acquaintances who, when asked, have NOT waited until 70, or I some cases even FRA. Smart people, but with a different lens, I guess.
I'm no longer surprised.

For some people, it really makes little difference. They have enough money that getting less from social security doesn't really matter all that much. It's basically a choice between good and better.

For other people, it could make a big difference. I have some neighbors who are widows and regret their deceased spouse's choices in social security claiming strategy and pension options. Two are currently seeking reverse mortgages. (I'm the Treasurer of our HOA, so I have to get documents to their bankers).

My brother in law is in his mid-eighties now. I remember when he started his benefits at 62, he said he didn't want the government to keep his money a day longer than necessary. He's doing sorta okay. But he clearly would have been better off delaying until 70.
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theac
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by theac »

I think it all just comes down to:

Most people are driven by Instant Gratification.
That is probably at the top of most people's list,
especially in a commercialized, consumer-based society.

"I need the latest gadget RIGHT NOW!!!!"

Self-Discipline, that's somewhere way down on the list.

P.S. I remember in my early 20s talking with an old-timer who was telling me about his upcoming retirement, and he was lamenting that in many periods over the years he had done a lot of work on the side for non-union contractors.
So now, those periods added up to lost years, pension-wise.

He got more money in his pocket in those moments since the contractor paid him above the union pay scale's hourly rate that he normally got when working with a union contractor. So at the time, he thought that was great!

And it benefited the contractor since he didn't have to pay an even higher amount into the employee's pension and medical plans with the union (which never showed up on the weekly paychecks but would have been paid-in for his employee's future benefit). So in this way, the contractor was able to save himself a few dollars.

He said that now, in his old age, he REALLY NEEDED that money, and he seemed worried about it. And that all that extra money that went into his pocket in his youth, instead of into his pension, had just evaporated and been spent on frivolous stuff.

That short conversation started with the good news that he was retiring soon,
and I was happy for him and said something like "WOW that's good!"

But it ended on a pretty somber note, once he told me that it wasn't so good,
and explained why.
Last edited by theac on Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Dandy
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by Dandy »

In my sphere I have yet to find any that did, and this from both early and late takers. Does this mean maybe it really doesn't matter that much?
If you take it early you are happy you are getting money and most likely haven't reached your later years and find out you don't have enough income or assets.

If you waited and are still alive you are happy with the higher income and haven't had any reason to expect an early death.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by JoeRetire »

McDougal wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:20 am I am curious to know, since the door was opened with these acquaintances, if any were asked whether or not they regretted their decision. In my sphere I have yet to find any that did, and this from both early and late takers. Does this mean maybe it really doesn't matter that much?
Most people convince themselves that they are doing the right thing and so have no regrets. Having no regrets isn't the same thing as not mattering much.
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BarbBrooklyn
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by BarbBrooklyn »

theac wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 6:05 pm I think it all just comes down to:

Most people are driven by Instant Gratification.
That is probably at the top of most people's list,
especially in a commercialized, consumer-based society.

"I need the latest gadget RIGHT NOW!!!!"

Self-Discipline, that's somewhere way down on the list.

P.S. I remember in my early 20s talking with an old-timer who was telling me about his upcoming retirement, and he was lamenting that in many periods over the years he had done a lot of work on the side for non-union contractors.
So now, those periods added up to lost years, pension-wise.

He got more money in his pocket in those moments since the contractor paid him above the union pay scale's hourly rate that he normally got when working with a union contractor. So at the time, he thought that was great!

And it benefited the contractor since he didn't have to pay an even higher amount into the employee's pension and medical plans with the union (which never showed up on the weekly paychecks but would have been paid-in for his employee's future benefit). So in this way, the contractor was able to save himself a few dollars.

He said that now, in his old age, he REALLY NEEDED that money, and he seemed worried about it. And that all that extra money that went into his pocket in his youth, instead of into his pension, had just evaporated and been spent on frivolous stuff.

That short conversation started with the good news that he was retiring soon,
and I was happy for him and said something like "WOW that's good!"

But it ended on a pretty somber note, once he told me that it wasn't so good,
and explained why.
I had an interesting conversation at dinner last night with my adult kids, in part driven by the fact that one of my sons-in- law is about to start a union job (but is still considering "other options"--independent contractor as a community organizer. My ex is always bashing his choices (doesn't like union jobs, doesn't like any of the choices available) and I explained to him (SIL)that when I started my NYC union job 3 decades ago, he (dear ex) made fun of my choices, told me that unions were for folks who couldn't hold their own. However, I now have a pretty substantial pension, get my Medicare part B reimbursed (including IRMAA if it comes to that), have low cost supplemental health insurance and access to free CFPs who aren't trying to sell me anything. I'm the one who has had the luxury of delaying until 70 if I choose.
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bloom2708
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by bloom2708 »

The extra $200 will help pay for some of the $900 car payment. :twisted: :shock:

I would wait it out.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by carolinaman »

I analyzed my situation carefully before retiring at age 66. The breakeven point for me was around age 82. My father, grandfather and great grandfather all died by age 73. Maternal grandfather died at 56. That made it seem unlikely that I would live past the breakeven point. Thus, I took SS at FRA when I retired at age 66. Also, my wife's health is not good, so she may not outlive me.

I am still going strong at age 77 but think my decision was sound. It is not an automatic decision to wait until 70 to take SS.

We probably fall into the category of those for whom it does not matter as we have ample resources for our retirement either way. However, this is a topic that every senior should understand before taking SS.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by smitcat »

BarbBrooklyn wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:53 am
theac wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 6:05 pm I think it all just comes down to:

Most people are driven by Instant Gratification.
That is probably at the top of most people's list,
especially in a commercialized, consumer-based society.

"I need the latest gadget RIGHT NOW!!!!"

Self-Discipline, that's somewhere way down on the list.

P.S. I remember in my early 20s talking with an old-timer who was telling me about his upcoming retirement, and he was lamenting that in many periods over the years he had done a lot of work on the side for non-union contractors.
So now, those periods added up to lost years, pension-wise.

He got more money in his pocket in those moments since the contractor paid him above the union pay scale's hourly rate that he normally got when working with a union contractor. So at the time, he thought that was great!

And it benefited the contractor since he didn't have to pay an even higher amount into the employee's pension and medical plans with the union (which never showed up on the weekly paychecks but would have been paid-in for his employee's future benefit). So in this way, the contractor was able to save himself a few dollars.

He said that now, in his old age, he REALLY NEEDED that money, and he seemed worried about it. And that all that extra money that went into his pocket in his youth, instead of into his pension, had just evaporated and been spent on frivolous stuff.

That short conversation started with the good news that he was retiring soon,
and I was happy for him and said something like "WOW that's good!"

But it ended on a pretty somber note, once he told me that it wasn't so good,
and explained why.
I had an interesting conversation at dinner last night with my adult kids, in part driven by the fact that one of my sons-in- law is about to start a union job (but is still considering "other options"--independent contractor as a community organizer. My ex is always bashing his choices (doesn't like union jobs, doesn't like any of the choices available) and I explained to him (SIL)that when I started my NYC union job 3 decades ago, he (dear ex) made fun of my choices, told me that unions were for folks who couldn't hold their own. However, I now have a pretty substantial pension, get my Medicare part B reimbursed (including IRMAA if it comes to that), have low cost supplemental health insurance and access to free CFPs who aren't trying to sell me anything. I'm the one who has had the luxury of delaying until 70 if I choose.
"I'm the one who has had the luxury of delaying until 70 if I choose."
With a choice to make which method are you utilizing to determine when you take SS?
We are using the RPM calculator and Pralana Gold.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by BarbBrooklyn »

bloom2708 wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:05 am The extra $200 will help pay for some of the $900 car payment. :twisted: :shock:

I would wait it out.
LOL, it's NOT a fancy car; it's a Subaru Forester. The 0% financing was only available for the 36 month term and although I had the money in cash to pay for it, after I negotiated the best cash deal, I took the financing. That car (with tons of safety features and adaptive headlights) has made a huge difference in my ability to drive at night. Well worth it.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by rbd789 »

JoeRetire wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 6:31 am
McDougal wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:20 am I am curious to know, since the door was opened with these acquaintances, if any were asked whether or not they regretted their decision. In my sphere I have yet to find any that did, and this from both early and late takers. Does this mean maybe it really doesn't matter that much?
Most people convince themselves that they are doing the right thing and so have no regrets. Having no regrets isn't the same thing as not mattering much.
To me, no regrets is indeed the same as not mattering much. They both equate to enough is enough.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by JoeRetire »

carolinaman wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:09 am I am still going strong at age 77 but think my decision was sound. It is not an automatic decision to wait until 70 to take SS.
Do you still feel like you will not live to your "breakeven point"?
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Peter Foley
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by Peter Foley »

I don't think there is a meaningful difference with regard to timing and income at this point. However, I would be inclined to wait until January of next year.

My reasoning:

Ballpark you have about $1.3M in deferred compensation. First year RMDs at age 72 will be about $48,000. Slightly more with market increases perhaps.
There is strong potential to revert to the old tax law in 2026.
Therefore I would be inclined to do a fairly substantial Roth conversion or withdrawal this year.
A withdrawal into the 24% marginal tax rate range would perhaps allow you to pay off your mortgage and deplete your 457 account. So you get a simplification in addition to lowering future RMDs.
The downside of this is a substantial increase in IRMAA for one year.

While one cannot accurately predict the future, the approach outlined above is a bit conservative knowing what we know now.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by BarbBrooklyn »

Peter Foley wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 10:07 am I don't think there is a meaningful difference with regard to timing and income at this point. However, I would be inclined to wait until January of next year.

My reasoning:

Ballpark you have about $1.3M in deferred compensation. First year RMDs at age 72 will be about $48,000. Slightly more with market increases perhaps.
There is strong potential to revert to the old tax law in 2026.
Therefore I would be inclined to do a fairly substantial Roth conversion or withdrawal this year.
A withdrawal into the 24% marginal tax rate range would perhaps allow you to pay off your mortgage and deplete your 457 account. So you get a simplification in addition to lowering future RMDs.
The downside of this is a substantial increase in IRMAA for one year.

While one cannot accurately predict the future, the approach outlined above is a bit conservative knowing what we know now.
So I would convert 130K in 2022? IRMAA would then be in play for 2024, correct? I get reimbursed for my Part B premiums, but I have to pay them (and DH's up front during the year). What does everyone thing about this idea?
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by GerryL »

rbd789 wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:34 am
JoeRetire wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 6:31 am
McDougal wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:20 am I am curious to know, since the door was opened with these acquaintances, if any were asked whether or not they regretted their decision. In my sphere I have yet to find any that did, and this from both early and late takers. Does this mean maybe it really doesn't matter that much?
Most people convince themselves that they are doing the right thing and so have no regrets. Having no regrets isn't the same thing as not mattering much.
To me, no regrets is indeed the same as not mattering much. They both equate to enough is enough.
Perhaps "having no regrets" is the practical course since there is nothing you can do about it after the fact. Regrets are a waste of mental energy. Don't waste time regretting past decisions ... unless there are lessons to be learned and acted upon. Make you decision and move on.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by montanagirl »

I started collecting vat 69.5 and people here tried talking me out of it.

But it felt like I had crested a hill or something, tired of my semi-retirement jobs and unable to envision the future. Up until then I had been patient and industrious.

At that point the difference between filing at 69.5 and 70 was about $12 a month. I figured I had done well to wait that long when virtually everyone I knew filed at 62. 😲

Sometimes you just have to go with your intuition.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by JoeRetire »

GerryL wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:22 pm Perhaps "having no regrets" is the practical course since there is nothing you can do about it after the fact. Regrets are a waste of mental energy. Don't waste time regretting past decisions ... unless there are lessons to be learned and acted upon. Make you decision and move on.
Agreed! Well stated.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by vested1 »

montanagirl wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:39 pm I started collecting vat 69.5 and people here tried talking me out of it.

But it felt like I had crested a hill or something, tired of my semi-retirement jobs and unable to envision the future. Up until then I had been patient and industrious.

At that point the difference between filing at 69.5 and 70 was about $12 a month. I figured I had done well to wait that long when virtually everyone I knew filed at 62. 😲

Sometimes you just have to go with your intuition.
I appreciate the sentiment. Four months to go for me and sticking it out until 70. The amount not credited for filing 6 months earlier than age 70 (4%) would be $108 a month with my PIA. Not that significant but something at any rate. Nobody I know waited until 70, and the amount of pressure I got to file earlier was surprising to me. A few even ridiculed me for delaying this long.

Everyone wants to talk about filing for SS in my age group, and in my opinion, those who have already filed and question why I would ever delay are simply trying to justify their own decision. I'm happy for them and don't judge them for not delaying. I only wish they would return the favor.

For some odd reason, a lot of people equate the decision to politics or use it as a method to prove something that nobody else cares about. Years ago I had an acquaintance the same age as me ask me what I was going to do about filing for SS. I told him that my wife had just filed at 65 and that had I filed a restricted application simultaneously at age 66 (FRA), getting half of her PIA until I turned 70 and filed for my own benefit. My wife and I share the same birthday, one year apart.

I mentioned that he could do the same thing because he was turning 66 soon, and his wife was older than him and had already filed at her FRA, which he volunteered. He scoffed at me, saying he had enough money that he didn't need to worry about it and that he was going to file at age 70 only because he was required to. The implication he was making about my lower net worth was obvious.

I merely smiled and changed the subject. If he was so rich that he could afford to throw away 50k (his wife was a high earner too) for the 4 years between his FRA and age 70 more power to him. The rest of us peasants try to make decisions in our family's best interest whenever possible.

On another recent occasion I was at a get together for new arrivals at the new community we just moved to. Someone a few years older than me asked me what I was doing about SS. I told him I was delaying until later this year when I turn 70. He replied, "I've heard about that (expletive deleted) and don't believe in it." Huh? He went on to say he had filed at 62 and resented the fact that most of his SS benefit went to pay for Medicare premiums and copays. No kidding? I would call that a failure to connect the dots.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by Chadnudj »

Beehave wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:50 am TropikThunder has the right analysis.

The SS benefit increase is constant each month, but the amount it "costs you" to delay each month increases by that amount. SS is such a good deal (cheap COLA-protected longevity insurance that diversifies from your stock nest egg) that it is easy to argue for delaying to the absolute max. However, it is very reasonable to take a few months before 70, because those last few months are the most expensive relative to all the other delay time.

Personally, I delayed to 70 and am happy because of the italicized reasons above. I would not dream of excoriating someone for taking a few months before age 70, because in terms of the cost of delaying taking the SS benefit relative to the gain of delaying, those months are the most expensive of all.
Does TropikThunder?

Because to me the one thing that they do not consider is OP is (apparently) the higher earning spouse, and by delaying all the way until 70 they create for DH a higher survivor benefit should OP predecease DH (DH would shift from their $24k per year or so to OP's $36k or whatever it works out to). That is, for many couples, the primary reason the higher earning spouse delays until 70 -- not that it maximizes their own individual draw from SS, but that they leave their surviving spouse a higher benefit amount should the higher earning spouse predecease the lower earning spouse.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by Dottie57 »

willthrill81 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:32 am
TropikThunder wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:06 am
123 wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:48 pm There have been people who have held out for the highest social security benefit at age 70 and have lost out because they passed away before they collected enough benefits to make up for the benefits they lost by waiting.
+1. That's the part that seems to be missing from most of the "wait as long as you can" arguments.
Virtually everyone understands that. But getting as much as one can from SS benefits before dying is probably not a good way to look at the issue of when to claim.

Which of the two situations is worse: you die before reaching your SS 'breakeven point', or you live to age 95, deplete your portfolio, and your SS benefits aren't adequate to meet your spending needs?
This.

Once I start SS at 70, the need for $ from my portfolio goes waydown.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by MichDad »

I'm waiting until age 70+ to begin collecting my Social Security benefits because:

1. I want my wife to get the highest possible spousal benefits when I die;
2. We're making substantial Roth conversions each year and waiting for my maximum SS benefits gives us more time and space for this;
3. When we finally collect our maximum SS benefits, "only" 85 percent of them will be taxed. By comparison, 100 percent of the funds we withdraw or convert from our traditional IRAs are taxed.

I put the + after 70 because I was born in the second half of the year. I may wait until January of the following year to begin collecting my SS benefits and get a retroactive payment for the previous months since my birthday so we'll have more space for Roth conversions the year I turn 70. As I understand the rules, SS recipients can get up to six months of retroactive benefits.

MichDad
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VictoriaF
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by VictoriaF »

Hi Barb,

Several people have already pointed out the asymmetry: if you don't reach the break-even point you won't care because you'll be dead, but if your Social Security is inadequate at the age of 97 you won't have any recourse.

I'll add a related consideration: as we get older, it becomes more difficult to manage our money and more easy to lose money to errors and scams. If everything else is lost, our Social Security will still be there for us. Thus, it makes sense to maximize it.

If you can make it to the 2022 Bogleheads conference, you may be able to discuss your situation with Mike Piper in person. In a live dialog new arguments and considerations come up that you can't think of now.

Good luck,
Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake | Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by Beehave »

Chadnudj wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 9:01 am
Beehave wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:50 am TropikThunder has the right analysis.

The SS benefit increase is constant each month, but the amount it "costs you" to delay each month increases by that amount. SS is such a good deal (cheap COLA-protected longevity insurance that diversifies from your stock nest egg) that it is easy to argue for delaying to the absolute max. However, it is very reasonable to take a few months before 70, because those last few months are the most expensive relative to all the other delay time.

Personally, I delayed to 70 and am happy because of the italicized reasons above. I would not dream of excoriating someone for taking a few months before age 70, because in terms of the cost of delaying taking the SS benefit relative to the gain of delaying, those months are the most expensive of all.
Does TropikThunder?

Because to me the one thing that they do not consider is OP is (apparently) the higher earning spouse, and by delaying all the way until 70 they create for DH a higher survivor benefit should OP predecease DH (DH would shift from their $24k per year or so to OP's $36k or whatever it works out to). That is, for many couples, the primary reason the higher earning spouse delays until 70 -- not that it maximizes their own individual draw from SS, but that they leave their surviving spouse a higher benefit amount should the higher earning spouse predecease the lower earning spouse.
I agree with you and I fully endorse waiting to age 70 for those who can. The thing that Tropik Thunder was pointing out that many do not understand is that the while the SS benefit increases by a constant fixed amount each month you delay, the cost of purchasing that fixed amount increases each month (by that fixed amount) and beyond that the period for which you are collecting is presumably one month shorter.

The delay from age 69 and 11 months to 70 is the most expensive month of all. I'd recommend waiting that month and maxing SS, but if a number-crunching analysis of delaying is of interest, then this aspect is pertinent.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by SGM »

VictoriaF wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 12:01 pm


I'll add a related consideration: as we get older, it becomes more difficult to manage our money and more easy to lose money to errors and scams. If everything else is lost, our Social Security will still be there for us. Thus, it makes sense to maximize it.

Victoria
Hi Victoria,

I saw an elderly relative fall for a Bernie Madoff type Ponzi scheme. The elderly relative had been a competent businessman and real estate investor. In his 90s he lent money to a developer who paid him 18% yearly for the loan. This, of course, was a scam. The scammer had a seemingly good reputation and headed a local charity. 'We needed to hire an attorney who was able to get back half the money that was lost in the scam. It was the fear of errors and scams that was another factor that contributed to choosing to delay SS. We have an annuity and a pension that also offer some protection.
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VictoriaF
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by VictoriaF »

SGM wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 10:54 am
VictoriaF wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 12:01 pm


I'll add a related consideration: as we get older, it becomes more difficult to manage our money and more easy to lose money to errors and scams. If everything else is lost, our Social Security will still be there for us. Thus, it makes sense to maximize it.

Victoria
Hi Victoria,

I saw an elderly relative fall for a Bernie Madoff type Ponzi scheme. The elderly relative had been a competent businessman and real estate investor. In his 90s he lent money to a developer who paid him 18% yearly for the loan. This, of course, was a scam. The scammer had a seemingly good reputation and headed a local charity. 'We needed to hire an attorney who was able to get back half the money that was lost in the scam. It was the fear of errors and scams that was another factor that contributed to choosing to delay SS. We have an annuity and a pension that also offer some protection.
Hi SGM,

Thank you for a good example, albeit a sad one.

I am also thinking about financial innovations that do and will take place as we age. Cryptocurrencies may become a principal means of financial transactions, and if we don't understand them fully, we can fail. Cryptocurrencies and other critical files must be protected with strong cybersecurity controls and, with age, we'll be less capable to implement a strong cybersecurity. All kinds of transactions are conducted on small screens and small screens make us more vulnerable to making mistakes. Likewise, web sites become more crowded and use moving images which reduce our ability to focus.

Even if we don't get a medical diagnosis of a mental decline, the market forces conspire to force us make mistakes. Social Security and pensions/annuities are the first line of defense when everything else fails.

Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake | Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
Wrench
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by Wrench »

BarbBrooklyn wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 2:16 pm
Peter Foley wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 10:07 am I don't think there is a meaningful difference with regard to timing and income at this point. However, I would be inclined to wait until January of next year.

My reasoning:

Ballpark you have about $1.3M in deferred compensation. First year RMDs at age 72 will be about $48,000. Slightly more with market increases perhaps.
There is strong potential to revert to the old tax law in 2026.
Therefore I would be inclined to do a fairly substantial Roth conversion or withdrawal this year.
A withdrawal into the 24% marginal tax rate range would perhaps allow you to pay off your mortgage and deplete your 457 account. So you get a simplification in addition to lowering future RMDs.
The downside of this is a substantial increase in IRMAA for one year.

While one cannot accurately predict the future, the approach outlined above is a bit conservative knowing what we know now.
So I would convert 130K in 2022? IRMAA would then be in play for 2024, correct? I get reimbursed for my Part B premiums, but I have to pay them (and DH's up front during the year). What does everyone thing about this idea?
Yes, that is one option. For IRMAA in 2024 once you get the notice of your increase in December 2023 you can file an appeal if your expected 2024 or 2023 income is lower than the limit. I did that this year after a large Roth conversion in 2020. My income this year will be below the first IRMAA limit and my appeal was granted. The process was easy - just fill out a form and fax it to the local social security office with backup info showing your expected income for the next year. The appeal was granted quickly - within a couple weeks as I remember it.

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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by theac »

VictoriaF wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 2:48 pm
SGM wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 10:54 am
VictoriaF wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 12:01 pm


I'll add a related consideration: as we get older, it becomes more difficult to manage our money and more easy to lose money to errors and scams. If everything else is lost, our Social Security will still be there for us. Thus, it makes sense to maximize it.

Victoria
Hi Victoria,

I saw an elderly relative fall for a Bernie Madoff type Ponzi scheme. The elderly relative had been a competent businessman and real estate investor. In his 90s he lent money to a developer who paid him 18% yearly for the loan. This, of course, was a scam. The scammer had a seemingly good reputation and headed a local charity. 'We needed to hire an attorney who was able to get back half the money that was lost in the scam. It was the fear of errors and scams that was another factor that contributed to choosing to delay SS. We have an annuity and a pension that also offer some protection.
Hi SGM,

Thank you for a good example, albeit a sad one.

I am also thinking about financial innovations that do and will take place as we age. Cryptocurrencies may become a principal means of financial transactions, and if we don't understand them fully, we can fail. Cryptocurrencies and other critical files must be protected with strong cybersecurity controls and, with age, we'll be less capable to implement a strong cybersecurity. All kinds of transactions are conducted on small screens and small screens make us more vulnerable to making mistakes. Likewise, web sites become more crowded and use moving images which reduce our ability to focus.

Even if we don't get a medical diagnosis of a mental decline, the market forces conspire to force us make mistakes. Social Security and pensions/annuities are the first line of defense when everything else fails.

Victoria
I can think of an even sadder one,
with a little dose of humor mixed in just to balance it all out! :D

I remember hearing someone once say:
"You have to make sure you're worth more to them alive than dead." :shock:

Now imagine your heirs decide it's time to cash in on that large nest egg.
(Hey it happens! Anyone ever heard of the Menendez brothers?)

Oh, if only you would have planned ahead to get a larger check,
so that the nest egg would continue growing, and their greed would have kept them (and you) in the game!

But alas, the monthly checks are too small to hold back any longer,
so they roll your wheelchair to the edge of a very long flight of stairs...

Now for the funny part:
The movie "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels" comes to mind,
except in that one Steve Martin rolls his own wheelchair to the edge...
Ahhh, what a great movie! He's hilarious! :D

Seen it at least 5 times over the years,
and maybe it's time for a good laugh once again.

Like the part where Michael Caine is "the doctor" diagnosing Steve Martin's "problem" by whipping his legs. And he has to pretend he doesn't feel a thing! :D
"Look doctor, he's so happy you're taking on his case, that he's even crying!"

Anyway, I agree there are many ways to miscalculate things,
and the older we get, the easier it is to just simply make a very costly mistake.
Such as by using poor judgment when "the deal of the century" comes along.

There's a reason why a lot of these scammers go after the elderly.

But if you do somehow manage to lose everything along the way,
all you really need to do is just make it to that next monthly check.

At least that way you can be pretty sure you'll have a roof over your head,
and food to eat. And the larger that check is, might even get dessert! :D

Plus if that nest egg keeps growing, well, you never know! :D
"We keep you alive to serve this ship. Row well...and live." Ben Hur...and The Taxman! hahaha (a George Harrison song)
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by BarbBrooklyn »

Any ideas on the best way to evaluate whether it is better to WITHDRAW monies in my low-no SS year(s) 22-23 and pay off my 130k 3.5% mortgage (24 years left) OR do Roth conversions with that money?
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by Carl53 »

BarbBrooklyn wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 7:16 am Any ideas on the best way to evaluate whether it is better to WITHDRAW monies in my low-no SS year(s) 22-23 and pay off my 130k 3.5% mortgage (24 years left) OR do Roth conversions with that money?

I suspect that the conversions will prove to be better. With higher inflation, tax brackets will increase, SS benefits will increase, fixed income rates will increase while your mortgage rate/payment remains the same. OTOH, if it helps you sleep better by having the mortgage paid off, then go for it.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by VictoriaF »

theac wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 11:12 pm
I remember hearing someone once say:
"You have to make sure you're worth more to them alive than dead." :shock:

Now imagine your heirs decide it's time to cash in on that large nest egg.
(Hey it happens! Anyone ever heard of the Menendez brothers?)

Oh, if only you would have planned ahead to get a larger check,
so that the nest egg would continue growing, and their greed would have kept them (and you) in the game!
You are right, the Menendez brothers case is as sad as it can get.

I don't recall the details of the Menendez brothers case, but I think the parents would have been worth more alive than dead if they (the parents) had a higher Social Security and lower assets. Large assets are a temptation for scammers, gold diggers, and some children. Large Social Security is less attractive to scammers and gold diggers, and children are more likely to put up with their parents if parents can pay their own bills.

Bob K (bobcat2) said on a few occasions that when the elderly try to increase their assets in order to leave a greater estate they frequently end up needing to be supported by their heirs. (This is not an exact citation, but I think I got the essence right.)

Victoria
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by BarbBrooklyn »

Carl53 wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 7:35 am
BarbBrooklyn wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 7:16 am Any ideas on the best way to evaluate whether it is better to WITHDRAW monies in my low-no SS year(s) 22-23 and pay off my 130k 3.5% mortgage (24 years left) OR do Roth conversions with that money?

I suspect that the conversions will prove to be better. With higher inflation, tax brackets will increase, SS benefits will increase, fixed income rates will increase while your mortgage rate/payment remains the same. OTOH, if it helps you sleep better by having the mortgage paid off, then go for it.
Having a pretty low cost mortgage bothers me not at all.

I've realized, reading another thread, that I can actually delay claiming SS until past my 70th birthday and have 6 months of back payment credited in January of 2024!
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by theac »

Carl53 wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 7:35 am
BarbBrooklyn wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 7:16 am Any ideas on the best way to evaluate whether it is better to WITHDRAW monies in my low-no SS year(s) 22-23 and pay off my 130k 3.5% mortgage (24 years left) OR do Roth conversions with that money?

I suspect that the conversions will prove to be better. With higher inflation, tax brackets will increase, SS benefits will increase, fixed income rates will increase while your mortgage rate/payment remains the same. OTOH, if it helps you sleep better by having the mortgage paid off, then go for it.
Yes I think that's the way I would do it too.

Just set up auto-payments (if you haven't already) so that you don't even have to write that monthly check or even think about it again.

Then get the ROTH conversions out of the way. I got all of mine done before I hit 62 just in case if I would have decided to take SS at 62.
Which I'm VERY GLAD I didn't!

It's a nice feeling to know you will never have to deal with those RMDs in the future. Just one less thing to worry about, or to get penalized for if something goes wrong.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by JoeRetire »

VictoriaF wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 7:55 amchildren are more likely to put up with their parents if parents can pay their own bills.
:confused
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by Golf maniac »

Dantes wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:05 am If you or your spouse died what would be the survivor's financial situation? Does the survivor get the full pension? What happens if inflation diminishes the value of the pension?

My choice was to wait for the maximum benefit, and I am glad I did. But I value the longevity insurance aspect of SS. Others seem to value what they can spend today.
+1. All that matters is the survivors financial position after one person dies. In my case I am the high earner. Wife took SS at 62, I am waiting for 70 because when I die she will lose her SS benefit when she takes mine. She will also lose 50% of my pension. We are using life insurance for “gap” coverage if I die early. I have run all the numbers and for my situation waiting until 70 is the best financial decision. I really don’t care if I make up all the money I missed by not filing early. Of course if my spouse died early I would immediately file for SS. OP has to look at the survivor financial position to make the correct choice.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by theac »

VictoriaF wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 7:55 am
theac wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 11:12 pm
I remember hearing someone once say:
"You have to make sure you're worth more to them alive than dead." :shock:

Now imagine your heirs decide it's time to cash in on that large nest egg.
(Hey it happens! Anyone ever heard of the Menendez brothers?)

Oh, if only you would have planned ahead to get a larger check,
so that the nest egg would continue growing, and their greed would have kept them (and you) in the game!
You are right, the Menendez brothers case is as sad as it can get.

I don't recall the details of the Menendez brothers case, but I think the parents would have been worth more alive than dead if they (the parents) had a higher Social Security and lower assets. Large assets are a temptation for scammers, gold diggers, and some children. Large Social Security is less attractive to scammers and gold diggers, and children are more likely to put up with their parents if parents can pay their own bills.

Bob K (bobcat2) said on a few occasions that when the elderly try to increase their assets in order to leave a greater estate they frequently end up needing to be supported by their heirs. (This is not an exact citation, but I think I got the essence right.)

Victoria
Actually I just vaguely remember when it happened in the news many years ago.

But I think it was last year that I saw a really good crime-show about that case and it was very interesting. I just mention them as an example of the kind of crazy things that can happen when there's money involved.

In that specific case, the parents were so rich that SS checks would have made no difference, and would have been just chump change. The parents were already spoiling them rotten and were dumping so much money on those "kids." But that wasn't good enough, they wanted it all...and RIGHT NOW! :twisted:
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by Dandy »

I am waiting for 70 because when I die she will lose her SS benefit when she takes mine. She will also lose 50% of my pension
.

And will likely filing single instead of joint which can also be an extra expense for whoever lives longer.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by LilyFleur »

:sharebeer
BarbBrooklyn wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:43 am
bloom2708 wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:05 am The extra $200 will help pay for some of the $900 car payment. :twisted: :shock:

I would wait it out.
LOL, it's NOT a fancy car; it's a Subaru Forester. The 0% financing was only available for the 36 month term and although I had the money in cash to pay for it, after I negotiated the best cash deal, I took the financing. That car (with tons of safety features and adaptive headlights) has made a huge difference in my ability to drive at night. Well worth it.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by hvaclorax »

David Jay wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:40 am
McDougal wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:20 amDoes this mean maybe it really doesn't matter that much?
There are some edge cases where it makes a big difference.

For those who are well provided, it doesn't matter much. I strongly recommend Mike Piper's program: http://opensocialsecurity.com because it shows a recommendation but has a neat graph which shows how little difference it makes. For me, the difference between age 68 and age 70 (married, higher earner) was about $8000 lifetime, or significantly less than 1% of total anticipated benefits.
This.
I too looked at Piper’s reports. Agree wholeheartedly. My take is the difference becomes negligible as one gets closer to 70. I claimed at 69 just 2 months ago. Many replies above seem to forget the break even point is 18 years out. Of small dollar amount. Don’t sweat it. Get on with your retirement.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by willthrill81 »

hvaclorax wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 7:16 pm I too looked at Piper’s reports. Agree wholeheartedly. My take is the difference becomes negligible as one gets closer to 70. I claimed at 69 just 2 months ago. Many replies above seem to forget the break even point is 18 years out. Of small dollar amount. Don’t sweat it. Get on with your retirement.
Respectfully HVAC
I don't see why anyone in good health at least would care about the break-even point. If I don't break-even, it's because I'm dead, and I won't regret anything. But if I live to 90 or beyond, as the longevity calculators say is likely for me at least, I'll have a lot of time to regret taking SS before age 70, and that's only the beginning of the potential troubles resulting from a smaller SS benefit.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by Whidbey38 »

Further to this topic, if the lower earning spouse is collecting SS at FRA and the higher earning spouse who planned to collect at age 70 dies before reaching age 70, what amount would the surviving spouse be eligible to receive?
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by Dregob »

TropikThunder wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:06 am
123 wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:48 pm There have been people who have held out for the highest social security benefit at age 70 and have lost out because they passed away before they collected enough benefits to make up for the benefits they lost by waiting.
+1. That's the part that seems to be missing from most of the "wait as long as you can" arguments.
BarbBrooklyn wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:17 pm I checked today and my future SS benefits are:

July 2022 3379/ MONTH
Jan 2023/ 3469/MONTH
July 2023 (MAXIMUM) 3578/MONTH
I like to look at in terms of break-even points (same as when evaluating whether it's better to take a higher mortgage rate in exchange for a lender credit).
  • If you wait until Jan 2023, your monthly benefit will be $90 higher than if you claim in Jul 2022 [$3,469 - $3,379].
  • But if you claim in Jul 2022, you will receive an additional 6 months of benefits before Jan 2023.
  • That's a total of [6 x $3,379 = $20,274] before Jan 2023
  • It would take almost 19 years for the higher-but-later monthly benefit to pass the total received from the earlier-but-lower monthly benefit
  • $20,274/$90 = 225.27 months/12 = 18.8 years
Similarly, waiting until Jul 2023 gets you an additional $199/mo while you could have collected a full year at $3,379 in the meantime [$40,548]. That will take 203 months (17 years) to breakeven.

Most advisors will tell you to wait, but in this scenario waiting puts you behind for 19 years. Which means I must be missing something.
I plan on waiting until 70 or close to it but that is due to my wife having a much lower SS benefit. The chances of us breaking even (hopefully beating the system) improves since only one of us has to beat the SS actuary table to come out ahead.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by vested1 »

Proponents of delaying: "Breakeven doesn't matter!"
Proponents of filing ASAP: "Breakeven is all that matters!"

Simplistic reasoning on both sides in all likelihood. It's more complicated than that, and highly dependent on personal circumstances. The only constant is that it's best not to criticize someone else's decision.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by JoeRetire »

Whidbey38 wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:20 pm Further to this topic, if the lower earning spouse is collecting SS at FRA and the higher earning spouse who planned to collect at age 70 dies before reaching age 70, what amount would the surviving spouse be eligible to receive?
The survivor would receive whatever the deceased spouse would have received had they claimed the day they passed, but not less than the deceased spouse's PIA.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by GerryL »

vested1 wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:51 am Proponents of delaying: "Breakeven doesn't matter!"
Proponents of filing ASAP: "Breakeven is all that matters!"

Simplistic reasoning on both sides in all likelihood. It's more complicated than that, and highly dependent on personal circumstances. The only constant is that it's best not to criticize someone else's decision.
Most of the criticism I've seen in discussions such as this is not of the actual decision but of the reasoning -- or lack of reasoning -- behind the decision. Each person needs to decide what is best for their personal circumstances. Basing that decision on paranoia or misinformation is not necessarily doing what's best for your circumstances.

Here is one more mantra: "Breakeven is not the only consideration."
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by hvaclorax »

willthrill81 wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 7:22 pm
hvaclorax wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 7:16 pm I too looked at Piper’s reports. Agree wholeheartedly. My take is the difference becomes negligible as one gets closer to 70. I claimed at 69 just 2 months ago. Many replies above seem to forget the break even point is 18 years out. Of small dollar amount. Don’t sweat it. Get on with your retirement.
Respectfully HVAC
I don't see why anyone in good health at least would care about the break-even point. If I don't break-even, it's because I'm dead, and I won't regret anything. But if I live to 90 or beyond, as the longevity calculators say is likely for me at least, I'll have a lot of time to regret taking SS before age 70, and that's only the beginning of the potential troubles resulting from a smaller SS benefit.
I wholeheartedly agree. My spouse however might want me to wait till 70.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by chipperd »

willthrill81 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:32 am
TropikThunder wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:06 am
123 wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:48 pm There have been people who have held out for the highest social security benefit at age 70 and have lost out because they passed away before they collected enough benefits to make up for the benefits they lost by waiting.
+1. That's the part that seems to be missing from most of the "wait as long as you can" arguments.
Virtually everyone understands that. But getting as much as one can from SS benefits before dying is probably not a good way to look at the issue of when to claim.

Which of the two situations is worse: you die before reaching your SS 'breakeven point', or you live to age 95, deplete your portfolio, and your SS benefits aren't adequate to meet your spending needs?
I believe the third, unmentioned option of dying before collecting at all, is the least palatable choice of the potential scenarios.

As others have mentioned, one wouldn't care if they didn't collect social security at all b/c they are dead, but how about the surviving spouse or relatives who may inherit the portfolio? If one waits on filing to collect social security, thus opting to depleate their portfolio at a higher rate, then passes prior to collecting at all, the heirs will "pay the price".

These discussions seem to always boil down to personal opinion.

Yes, there is math behind every position, and the numbers should be part of the decision making process, but it's difficult to incorporate math into ones value system and thus, IMHO, shouldn't be the primary driver behind the "when to collect social security" decision.

But, again, that's my value system. Each to their own.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by JoeRetire »

chipperd wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:08 amYes, there is math behind every position, and the numbers should be part of the decision making process, but it's difficult to incorporate math into ones value system and thus, IMHO, shouldn't be the primary driver behind the "when to collect social security" decision.
It's difficult? I don't think I understand.

Can you explain a bit more about your personal value system, when you claimed (or will claim) your benefits, and how it makes it hard to incorporate math?
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by willthrill81 »

chipperd wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:08 am
willthrill81 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:32 am
TropikThunder wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:06 am
123 wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:48 pm There have been people who have held out for the highest social security benefit at age 70 and have lost out because they passed away before they collected enough benefits to make up for the benefits they lost by waiting.
+1. That's the part that seems to be missing from most of the "wait as long as you can" arguments.
Virtually everyone understands that. But getting as much as one can from SS benefits before dying is probably not a good way to look at the issue of when to claim.

Which of the two situations is worse: you die before reaching your SS 'breakeven point', or you live to age 95, deplete your portfolio, and your SS benefits aren't adequate to meet your spending needs?
I believe the third, unmentioned option of dying before collecting at all, is the least palatable choice of the potential scenarios.

As others have mentioned, one wouldn't care if they didn't collect social security at all b/c they are dead, but how about the surviving spouse or relatives who may inherit the portfolio? If one waits on filing to collect social security, thus opting to depleate their portfolio at a higher rate, then passes prior to collecting at all, the heirs will "pay the price".
Heirs will also 'pay the price' if you live to 95 and deplete your portfolio because your SS benefit was significantly lower than it would have been had you deferred SS benefits to age 70.

There's no getting around the fact that there is very real risk with whichever path is taken.

I don't begrudge insurance premiums I've paid over the years. In my adult life, I've paid many thousands of dollars in premiums for renter's, home, auto, and life insurance and not gotten a cent from a claim, and the opportunity cost from not having invested those funds was quite substantial too. But I didn't know that I wouldn't file a claim for all those years, nor do I know that I won't file a claim in the years to come, so I'm keeping my policies in place. Deferring SS benefits is a very similar concept. By deferring, I'm essentially 'buying' a bigger SS benefit, which is guaranteed, inflation-adjusted, lifetime income that cannot be bought on the open market. If I die young, I'm worse off for having done so, but that's not where the big risk for me is; that goes to potentially outliving my portfolio and being forced to become dependent on my loved ones.
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by theac »

willthrill81 wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:28 am
chipperd wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:08 am
willthrill81 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:32 am
TropikThunder wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:06 am
123 wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:48 pm There have been people who have held out for the highest social security benefit at age 70 and have lost out because they passed away before they collected enough benefits to make up for the benefits they lost by waiting.
+1. That's the part that seems to be missing from most of the "wait as long as you can" arguments.
Virtually everyone understands that. But getting as much as one can from SS benefits before dying is probably not a good way to look at the issue of when to claim.

Which of the two situations is worse: you die before reaching your SS 'breakeven point', or you live to age 95, deplete your portfolio, and your SS benefits aren't adequate to meet your spending needs?
I believe the third, unmentioned option of dying before collecting at all, is the least palatable choice of the potential scenarios.

As others have mentioned, one wouldn't care if they didn't collect social security at all b/c they are dead, but how about the surviving spouse or relatives who may inherit the portfolio? If one waits on filing to collect social security, thus opting to depleate their portfolio at a higher rate, then passes prior to collecting at all, the heirs will "pay the price".
Heirs will also 'pay the price' if you live to 95 and deplete your portfolio because your SS benefit was significantly lower than it would have been had you deferred SS benefits to age 70.

There's no getting around the fact that there is very real risk with whichever path is taken.

I don't begrudge insurance premiums I've paid over the years. In my adult life, I've paid many thousands of dollars in premiums for renter's, home, auto, and life insurance and not gotten a cent from a claim, and the opportunity cost from not having invested those funds was quite substantial too. But I didn't know that I wouldn't file a claim for all those years, nor do I know that I won't file a claim in the years to come, so I'm keeping my policies in place. Deferring SS benefits is a very similar concept. By deferring, I'm essentially 'buying' a bigger SS benefit, which is guaranteed, inflation-adjusted, lifetime income that cannot be bought on the open market. If I die young, I'm worse off for having done so, but that's not where the big risk for me is; that goes to potentially outliving my portfolio and being forced to become dependent on my loved ones.
WOW that's well said.
That's how I see it too, more as an annuity rather than trying to get every penny back that I ever paid into SS.

I never even missed it on my paychecks and was always earning a good wage, so couldn't understand when I'd hear co-workers complaining about having to pay into their SS. I never gave it a thought and was happy with what I was getting, not bemoaning what I wasn't getting, or feeling that I was being "cheated out of something" as I would sometimes hear others say.

I guess it had more to do with their own poor money-management than anything else, but it was easier to just put the blame elsewhere.
"We keep you alive to serve this ship. Row well...and live." Ben Hur...and The Taxman! hahaha (a George Harrison song)
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Nestegg_User
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Re: Claiming SS just a bit earlier than 70

Post by Nestegg_User »

Golf maniac wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 8:20 am
Dantes wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:05 am If you or your spouse died what would be the survivor's financial situation? Does the survivor get the full pension? What happens if inflation diminishes the value of the pension?

My choice was to wait for the maximum benefit, and I am glad I did. But I value the longevity insurance aspect of SS. Others seem to value what they can spend today.
+1. All that matters is the survivors financial position after one person dies. In my case I am the high earner. Wife took SS at 62, I am waiting for 70 because when I die she will lose her SS benefit when she takes mine. She will also lose 50% of my pension. We are using life insurance for “gap” coverage if I die early. I have run all the numbers and for my situation waiting until 70 is the best financial decision. I really don’t care if I make up all the money I missed by not filing early. Of course if my spouse died early I would immediately file for SS. OP has to look at the survivor financial position to make the correct choice.
Similar.... but I'm the lower PIA, but with the pension, and from the calcs our SS claiming gets us to 96% of max... but needing to consider the potential loss of half of pension makes our claiming strategy more appropriate for us (doesn't require both to live far beyond expectated) as it leaves more of the taxable account (and unused 401k and Roth) for the surviving spouse. {spouse at 70, mine at FRA or just beyond... and with the recent downturn our IPS has that as a potential trigger for FRA claiming so as to not deplete the portfolio when stocks are down___ our IPS has us at 45/50/5 until first SS claiming then slightly raising equities, with a 3.5% max wr} One needs to examine ALL possible sources and potential outcomes and even then the differences might not be that different for SS claiming if at FRA or beyond.
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