Quit and retire or stay?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
User avatar
mrspock
Posts: 2158
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:49 am
Location: Vulcan

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by mrspock »

I vote for the retire option. Remember, it’s not as if you can’t unretire if you so desire. Your skills will be in demand a year from now, so maybe try out retirement, if you don’t like it for reason, start applying for new gigs or open a small landscaping business to keep you busy. You have many decades ahead of you, think about this as one chapter of life closed, and a new one to begin. It may or may not involve work.

Again, congrats on your retirement, you made some amazingly good moves with money in 2008 which took discipline, courage and knowledge. You deserve every moment of it.
imyeti2
Posts: 211
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by imyeti2 »

I'd suggest detaching from the politics of work.

Not sure how old your children are. Perhaps work with "don't care" attitude until they are 26 and are on their own health insurance.

Worth talking to the CEO. You have nothing to lose. Keeping discussion with suggestions for improvement / solutions rather than complaints and ur unhappiness with the situation. Perhaps the gentleman will listen and make changes. If not they will ask you to retire.

How about volunteering in your community for non-profit or local small businesses - your IT skills could be in demand.

I'd recommend staying with focus on the family and "don't care" attitude about work. Login at 8 AM, logout at 5 pm.
wander
Posts: 4424
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:10 am

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by wander »

Financially, you can quit. Psychologically, you can't if you have to ask it. I think you should continue working.
vtsnowdin
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:54 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by vtsnowdin »

Two teenagers and a $20K Nanny?
Is the CEO single? You can certainly reenter the happiness of pursuit. If not him, plenty of people out there to be pursued by you or for you to be pursued by them if you so choose. Keep your assets a secret so to avoid the money grubbers.
The teenagers will be gone or on their own in the next blink of your eyes so max out the time you have left with them and get in a few more good memories. Hopefully they will bring back spouses and grandchildren regularly.
Best of luck and enjoy your financial independence.
Fulltimer
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:43 am

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by Fulltimer »

So, you are trading the precious days of your life, and time with your children, for money you do not need and a job you do not like.

Seems like a very bad bargain to me.
Wannaretireearly
Posts: 4880
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:39 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by Wannaretireearly »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:01 pm You could live to 90. 39 years is a LOT of time to fill without the structure, challenge and reward of work or the companionship and assistance of a spouse or SO (which of course as others have noted is not mandatory but being alone in old age isn’t exactly easy either). And once you leave the workforce, it’s for many people very hard to reenter at a similar level. Why not take a PT position somewhere in case you decide you want to work again after a few years.

Check out the following about the negatives of leaving the workforce early:
-Elizabeth White, “55, Underemployed and Faking Normal.”
-Leslie Bennetts, The Feminine Mistake
-Suze Orman on the Paula Pant podcast, “Why I Hate the FIRE Movement.”

It’s not just about finances (you’re in great shape) it’s about structure, meaning, identity and purpose. It’s about people imposing on your time because you have more of it. I guess that’s what I’m concerned about for myself. Your mileage may vary.
I’d suggest you read ‘Die with Zero’ just to get a rounded viewpoint.
The book doesn’t specify retirement early per se. But, makes some good points imo.
Your points are valid, but there is a reason why these decision are hard and require a lot of introspection.

counter arguments such as:
- healthiest ‘golden’ years are 45-60. I get individual circumstances may be ‘healthier’ but at an aggregate/average level it’s hard to argue with this.

- the window of time where you are healthy, not looking after anyone (kids, pets, sick parents, grandkids) may be surprisingly small. Take the opportunity to enjoy 100% of your time when you can.

- most folks here do not regret retiring early. I’m guessing cos they have planned very well (financially, and otherwise). Was your family ready? Just curious ;)

- developing outside interests/hobbies/fun jobs take time ( I got a lot to do here personally)

- seriously, most work and jobs are overrated. The ones I envy directly help people and are altruistic(?). Like healthcare. Americans take work too seriously in general. Sorry if that is offensive!
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ | “How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“
chipperd
Posts: 1674
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:58 am
Location: here and now

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by chipperd »

Fulltimer wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:41 pm So, you are trading the precious days of your life, and time with your children, for money you do not need and a job you do not like.

Seems like a very bad bargain to me.
Occam's Razor strikes again. So succinct and accurate. +1
"A portfolio is like a bar of soap, the more it's handled, the less there is." Dr. William Bernstein
Topic Author
JustHappen
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by JustHappen »

Delete
Last edited by JustHappen on Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
j9j
Posts: 385
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:46 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by j9j »

You have done a fantastic job seething up a nice financial portfolio. This gives you an option to resign/retire.

Definitely leave that toxic workplace. You don’t owe anyone in the c-suite anything after 19 years.

If you are up to it, negotiate a severance instead of resigning.

The nanny/helper for 20k sounds fantastic. I wish I could find someone reliable to do all those errand tasks. No need to give that up Until kids are off to college.

It might be a bit to young to retire and finding another remote developer position for around 100k should be easy.

On the other hand, with teenage children at home this might best time to be around instead of adding 100k corporate job but only you can really decide that.

Again great financial picture.
Topic Author
JustHappen
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by JustHappen »

Delete
Last edited by JustHappen on Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
spammagnet
Posts: 2481
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:42 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by spammagnet »

punkinhead wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:19 amMy wife and I have never discussed our financial decisions with our kids and don't see any reason to. We kept a roof over their heads and food on the table.
Parents teach their kids many things by example, explaining a lot of it so they understand better.

Why not teach your kids how to make financial decisions?
User avatar
mrmass
Posts: 1523
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:35 pm
Location: MA

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by mrmass »

Amy2017 wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:54 pm If I had known how a nanny/helper could improve life qualifty so much, I would have hired one long time ago. If I could afford, I plan to keep her even after my kids go to college. This will be my payback for her long time service. She will be nearing retiring age at that time and I am sure this extra income will make her life much easier.
I just noticed after reading this post, is that you're extremely loyal to those who have helped/guided you throughout the years.

The loyalty to your employer appears to be keeping you from leaving even if leaving is best for you. The nanny feels like part of the family, and I can see your loyalty to them.

You have many excellent comments here. I just would like to say I admire your loyalty.
Nowizard
Posts: 4839
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:33 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by Nowizard »

You can do what you want financially and have options of returning if you choose a sabbatical or even expanding your rental property profile if you chose to do that. One thought is related to having teenage children who will presumably be leaving home while you are still relatively young. Some would welcome that day, others would be in the position of having to find significantly different things to do with time. It is always great to have options!

Tim
Last edited by Nowizard on Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
danaht
Posts: 816
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:28 am

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by danaht »

You already have two full time jobs (property manager, and day job) . You could definitely quit one of them - and still be considered self employed at the very least.
Dave55
Posts: 2017
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:51 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by Dave55 »

Quit and retire. The job and work environment are no fun and you don't need the money.


Dave
"Reality always wins, your only job is to get in touch with it." Wilfred Bion
an_asker
Posts: 4903
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:15 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by an_asker »

Dave55 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:01 am Quit and retire. The job and work environment are no fun and you don't need the money.

Dave
I think only OP can make that decision LOL. That said, loyalty is one thing but don't think you are irreplaceable, OP. Your value to the company - at least on (payroll) paper - is no more than $135k (I assume I have the number correct). Don't even think you are more valuable than that.
User avatar
Watty
Posts: 28860
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by Watty »

Nowizard wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:45 am One thought is related to having teenage children who will presumably be leaving home while you are still relatively young. Some would welcome that day, others would be in the position of having to find significantly different things to do with time.
There will likely be mixed feeling when the kids grow up and leave home but in all likelihood you will be very glad to see them move out on their own and successfully "launch".

This is not because you want to get rid of them but because you will likely have seen people with kids that are still living at home in their 20s and even 30s which is often not a good situation. There was even a cheesy romantic comedy about this, "Failure to Launch".
flyingaway
Posts: 3908
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:19 am

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by flyingaway »

Managing $4M rental is not considered as a job? I think in many places, they need a team to do that.
Herekittykitty
Posts: 930
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:11 pm
Location: Flyover Country

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by Herekittykitty »

Have you checked out the market for jobs using your current skills (either in IT, or maybe even in real estate, or some combination) and compared work from home options, salary, and benefits? If not, you may want to do that just for fun.

It is good to know one's options, regardless of whether one intends to exercise them.
I don't know anything.
Topic Author
JustHappen
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by JustHappen »

Delete
Last edited by JustHappen on Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
invest2bfree
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:44 am

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by invest2bfree »

Amy2017 wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:09 pm I have been thinking about quitting my job after working for the same company for almost 19 years. I have confirmed with HR that there is no difference in benefit between retiring and resigning in our company. So I drafted a resignation letter the other day. Still some lingering fear prevents me from pulling the trigger.

Here is my current financial status - 51 years old widow with two teenage kids
401K: 1.35 million in 3-fund portfolios
Roth IRA: 480K in 3-fund portfolios
529: 250K
HSA: 19K
I Saving Bond + CD: 76K
Cash: 320K
Rentals: Close to $4 million worth with gross yearly rent $210K. Net profit between $140K and $150K. No mortgage. Manage them myself. (Rental properties were bought during housing crisis for total over $1 million initially.)
Primary residence: 800K. No mortgage.
Other income: Yearly Social Security Survivor Benefit for kids, total $46K until they are 18 years old
Total assets (excluding primary residence): 6.4 million with no debt and no mortgage.
Expense: $170K, including Roth contribution$7K, 401K contribution $26K, 529 contribution $30K, nanny salary $20K


Based on the numbers above, I think my family could keep our current living standard without my salary, which is a little over $130K. However, here are my thoughts.

When I first joined IT department of the company, which is a mid-sized public company, I was very excited and motivated. The career path has many ups and downs, which I have endured and preserved. Due to various reasons, the employee, especially developer, turnover rate in our team has been very high even before the pandemic. Almost all employees hired so far are in manager positions, such as project managers, directors, BAs, so we have many more people managing than working. When something does not go well, since I am usually the only one actually doing the work, most of the time it is me taking the blame without much support from the clueless director, who was newly hired in November by the new CIO. To compensate for lacking internal resources, contractors are hired to rescue, who seem only care about money, not quality of work. Because the managers have no clue what those contractors work on, they then hire more contractors to oversight current contractors. It is a total mess! Another challenge is that in order to keep up with current IT technology, there is constant learning. I have been thinking about maybe getting another certificate, but then ask myself what is the point to force myself to learn when I may already have enough to not work any more.

With that being said, what keep me stay is the benefit, paycheck, and working at home. We have been working at home for almost 2 years since the pandemic started. I could definitely say I don’t miss the social connection at work and never do. We could theoretically take vacation at any time with no limit. But this does not work well because you will just have more work when you come back. If I don’t work, I am also afraid I may set a bad example for my kids, who will think they don’t need to study hard when they have enough money.

Since working at home, I have taken an interest in gardening. Last year I hired a landscape company to completely redesign our backyard. Nowadays whenever I have time, I am eager to work on various projects at the backyard. I envision this will be my retirement life if I do resign. I used to read investment forums intensively. But only once a while now since most of my investments are on autopilot. I also enjoy travelling. But with both kids still in school, we could only take vacation during school break.

Maybe due to my age or reaching FI or the toxic working environment or burnout or all of above, I almost lost temper more than once during last couple of weeks. My original plan was waiting until either my younger kid goes to college or I get laid off, whichever comes first. But these days whenever I receive another email complaining why some task is still not complete or asking about project status, I immediately feel so annoyed that I literally want to quit. I have not discussed the retirement plan with my kids yet. But they know I have been very frustrated lately. I am not really looking for another job. So either quit and retire or stay. I really appreciate some feedback or reassurance on my conflict thoughts.
Life is too short BTW, before you know it you will grow old and may not do things you want to do.

I used to be an avid runner and till 45, I injured my ankle and injury has not healed for the last 2 years. As we get older there could be things we could do currently we may not be able to do.

Also financially it makes no sense, Your time is more valuable than fighting with these people who donot matter to you.
36% (IRA) - Individual LT Corporate Bonds , 33%(taxable) - schy, 33%(taxable) - SCHD Dividend Growth
susan123
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:53 am

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by susan123 »

Financially, you're more than good to go. No question about that.

If I were you, I would quit the job immediately. If you don't want to give up your job, you can talk to your manager about your frustration, but don't expect change. Honestly, if it were me, I would skip this step.

You have plenty of things to keep you busy, e.g. 2 kids, hobbies and managing your rentals. If you feel you want to re-enter the workforce later, you can always find another job. Your current job environment sounds toxic, and I wouldn't waste more time with them. When you quit, write a nice note to your CEO. People come and go in business, I'm sure he understands.

Best of luck to you!
rich126
Posts: 4475
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:56 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by rich126 »

Amy2017 wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:16 pm In our company's structure, the CIO reports to a senior executive, who then reports to the CEO. Not sure whether the CEO knows what happens in IT. In our company, IT is considered an overhead, not a revenue generating department. I wonder whether I could ask the CEO on what he would do if he was in my shoes, not as a CEO to fix anything for me, but as a mentor to provide some guidance? Based on public disclosed information online, our CEO's latest yearly compensation is more than 7 million. So he should be more than qualified on the subject of why people, who may have already reached FI, still choose to work. His thoughtfulness and wisdom have lifted my spirit many times in the past. Maybe he could share his perspective on my retirement decision as well.
In our company, IT is considered an overhead, not a revenue generating department
Sadly that is true in many places. Companies falsely think by cutting back on IT expenses they are saving the company money. Instead it usually costs them money and talented employees. I told my manager a few times that you need to view IT as a productivity multiplier. Developers want to use quality tools and an OS of their choice (which is really possible in most cases) and not deal with IT folks saying "no" or pushing out stuff no one wants.

I worked one place that placed limits on email storage so what did people do?
1. Some just would delete everything and then not having important stuff later.
2. Others wasted company time creating folders, and exporting stuff to search through at other times.

It got one charged reduced from IT but it got absorbed elsewhere as a hidden expense. For some reason many just don't understand this stuff.
----------------------------- | If you think something is important and it doesn't involve the health of someone, think again. Life goes too fast, enjoy it and be nice.
Topic Author
JustHappen
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by JustHappen »

Delete
Last edited by JustHappen on Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
spammagnet
Posts: 2481
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:42 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by spammagnet »

Amy2017 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:52 pm... Even more painful to learn is the 'Do not care' attitude towards the messy and careless work of those contractors. ...
It may help you to distinguish between "do not care about" and "not accept responsibility for" messy contractor work.
User avatar
JoeRetire
Posts: 15381
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:44 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by JoeRetire »

Amy2017 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:52 pm Our HQ employees have a quarterly corporate meeting. Two ppt slides will be shown every time by the CEO: one is revenue per employee and the other is expense per employee or something like that, compared to our industry peers. I never understand how those numbers are calculated.
Revenue per employee = Total revenue / number of employees
Expense per employee = Total expenses / number of employees
But the point repeated in every meeting is we need to increase revenue and lower expense. Since those contractors are not employees, I always wonder by hiring contractors intead of employees, the expense maybe at least lower on paper. If that is the case, that may explain why we have so many contractors these days.
It's not quite that simple. The cost of contractors is still an expense. And it may increase expense costs, since contractors can be expensive.

Using contractors instead of employees provides a level of control and allows for simpler variability of expenses. In a down revenue period, it's quicker, simpler, and cheaper to get rid of contractors, rather than laying off employees. In an up revenue period, it's quicker and simpler to add contractors, rather than sourcing, hiring, training and committing long term to additional employees.
This isn't just my wallet. It's an organizer, a memory and an old friend.
runningshoes
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:48 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by runningshoes »

Amy2017 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:51 am
flyingaway wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:13 am Managing $4M rental is not considered as a job? I think in many places, they need a team to do that.
I spend less than 10% of my spare time on managing those rentals. That is why I don't feel like it is a full time job. It is worth $4M in current hot markets. But the amount of work to me is the same when they were worth either $1M or $8M. I have seen more than one investor struggling of managing much less portfolios and then just giving up later. I always wish I could show them how to do it more efficiently so it will not be such a burdern.
On the rentals specifically, given the appreciation, is there a reason you're not selling? I ask as I'm in the same boat, with 2 duplexes (so 4 total units) that generate about $150k gross (say $90k net once mortgages paid) off a market value of ~ $1.8-$1.9MM and it's clear I would not spend that amount today for the return generated. My thought was to sell one per year once I retire in 2 - 3 years to minimize the tax impact even though the original plan was to keep them longer-term for cash flow purposes. Like you, the management is not problematic, but it is work and takes some time and it seems that the farther away from we get for vacations, the more likely a problem is to happen :happy
Topic Author
JustHappen
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by JustHappen »

Delete
Last edited by JustHappen on Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Topic Author
JustHappen
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by JustHappen »

Delete
Last edited by JustHappen on Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jaqenhghar
Posts: 464
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:24 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by jaqenhghar »

Thank you for the update. Would be curious to hear what actions the CEO takes in response to your letter!
Topic Author
JustHappen
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by JustHappen »

Delete
Last edited by JustHappen on Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Sandi_k
Posts: 2304
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 11:55 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by Sandi_k »

Wow! It sounds like your assessment of the CEO's character was spot-on.

So nice to read a positive update! And congrats on the courage it took to walk that path.
Parkinglotracer
Posts: 3947
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:49 am
Location: Upstate NY

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by Parkinglotracer »

Amy2017 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 1:48 pm Here is the update. Since I wrote the letter more than 2 months ago, no one had contacted me for anything. I was told by a close friend that most likely I would get fired before upper management took any action. So I had planned July 1 would be my last day. Then our CIO, the one in charge of our IT department, was suddenly terminated last week. I did not see this coming and was totally caught off guard. Later I got an email from the CEO who thanked me to give them time to consider and respond to my concerns. He also asked CFO to reach out to me so that CFO and I may discuss some of the suggestions mentioned in my email. In our company, CIO reports to CFO. I am very glad that I have not submitted resignation letter yet. I have no interest in taking any manager position or asking raise. All I want is a better working environment for myself. In the end, I feel low level employees may not be as powerless as we thought we are. So for now, I will stay.
I am glad the boss took your concerns seriously. Glad things are well.
nigel_ht
Posts: 4742
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:14 am

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by nigel_ht »

Amy2017 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 1:48 pm Then our CIO, the one in charge of our IT department, was suddenly terminated last week.
Well, horse didn’t learn to sing but you got a different good outcome.

Your finances are still rock solid but I think that I would be much happier retiring right after a bear recovery rather than at the ATH in Jan 22 just on general principal if there was no driving reason to retire earlier.

The point has been made a couple times in this thread to have something to retire to rather than from.

Now that things will likely become better you have the luxury to see if July is still a good date for you as opposed to being the last tolerable date you’re willing to put up with.
Jeepergeo
Posts: 876
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:33 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by Jeepergeo »

It sounds like it is time for you to step back and look in the mirror.

Your view seems to be that project managers, contractors, and just about everyone else in or involved with the company are lazy morons and that you are the only one producing. That view is like both incorrect and toxic.

Sometimes having and/or developing a more positive outlook can make a big change in how one views the world around them.

At 51, be careful. If you leave employment and then later decide you want to go at it again, you might find re-entry very difficult. Perhaps it might be best to check that mirror and take a vacation to seek some clarity that will allow you to figure out where to go with your career and employment.

Good luck. The effort will be worth it.
4nursebee
Posts: 2664
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:56 am
Location: US

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by 4nursebee »

1. Good job on the rentals. Most bogleheads do not understand them, weigh advice on such from that perspective.
2. A fellow student once told me that Americans live to work and that Europeans work to live. Stuck with me.
3. Have you worked out in your head or on paper how exactly you will spend money in retirement? I'm thinking in terms of withdrawal strategies, though with your real estate this will not be as important. I found such things just as stressful as quitting.
4. What is your plan to handle bad financial and real estate markets?
5. If you bought real estate because it was way underpriced, wouldn't you sell if it was way overpriced?
6. We have no regrets about retiring early and find life more enjoyable.
Pale Blue Dot
Topic Author
JustHappen
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by JustHappen »

Delete
Last edited by JustHappen on Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
dcabler
Posts: 4543
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:30 am
Location: TX

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by dcabler »

Amy2017 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 1:48 pm Here is the update. Since I wrote the letter more than 2 months ago, no one had contacted me for anything. I was told by a close friend that most likely I would get fired before upper management took any action. So I had planned July 1 would be my last day. Then our CIO, the one in charge of our IT department, was suddenly terminated last week. I did not see this coming and was totally caught off guard. Later I got an email from the CEO who thanked me to give them time to consider and respond to my concerns. He also asked CFO to reach out to me so that CFO and I may discuss some of the suggestions mentioned in my email. In our company, CIO reports to CFO. I am very glad that I have not submitted resignation letter yet. I have no interest in taking any manager position or asking raise. All I want is a better working environment for myself. In the end, I feel low level employees may not be as powerless as we thought we are. So for now, I will stay.
What a fantastic (and in my experience, very unusual) outcome!

I've worked for 8 different companies in my career (one of them twice), and have been in various forms of toxic 3 or 4 times. Most of the times, I ended up being layed off myself and most of the times I saw it coming and already had the next job lined up, but I also always got a very nice severance package each time!

In one case, I did resign myself because the nature of the toxicity was with a high visible and highly strategic external customer primarily and I couldn't even imagine one more day of dealing with them. Was convinced to stay and got reassigned then 4 months later was told I no longer had a position. Transferred immediately to another department where I excelled for several more years till I switched to my current employer.

5 years now at the current employer, and last year things started to become pretty toxic with a new CEO and other new execs in place. Even before that, my plans for the last couple of years have been to retire this summer, but I was seriously considering accelerating that plan late last year. But the company brought in two new people above me and both of them are fantastic. My direct manager is somebody I've known for years and is somebody who also saw what was going own last year to the point that he and I were both having conversations about pulling the plug. At the end of the day, these changes only ended up resulting in my plans reverting back to me retiring this summer, which allowed a substantial number of RSU's to vest in Q1 and a sizeable corporate bonus at about the same time. So I was perfectly comfortable in giving my new boss my plans once he was on board. He and his boss agreed to allow me to stay on for an indefinite amount of time to help find and train my successor - that is allowing me to tap into my last round of RSU's this year (vesting in just a few 1's of days) and a second bonus happening in a few weeks. Replacement is now identified and will join the team in the next couple of weeks. I can't imagine a better ending to a nearly 4 decade career! (well, except that I'll be retiring into a down market, but that's OK)

cheers.
dcabler
Posts: 4543
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:30 am
Location: TX

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by dcabler »

Amy2017 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 6:48 am If you have worked in a toxic environment in the past, you will understand that it is not that only good employees produce. It is no one produces, including myself, but good employees will leave. That is why the company takes my concern seriously. No. I won't say those people are lazy, but they are incompetent. It is very possible they actually work really hard. Hope is not a strategy. Wishful thinking does not change the reality no matter how many times I stand in front of a mirror. If so, it is called illusion. I think the fact that it took upper management more than 2 months to take action suggests they did their own homework, which validates my points. Because collateral damage will certainly be associated with this kind of weighty decision, I don't think the company will take it lightly and just blindly take my words.
Jeepergeo wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 11:01 pm It sounds like it is time for you to step back and look in the mirror.

Your view seems to be that project managers, contractors, and just about everyone else in or involved with the company are lazy morons and that you are the only one producing. That view is like both incorrect and toxic.

Sometimes having and/or developing a more positive outlook can make a big change in how one views the world around them.

At 51, be careful. If you leave employment and then later decide you want to go at it again, you might find re-entry very difficult. Perhaps it might be best to check that mirror and take a vacation to seek some clarity that will allow you to figure out where to go with your career and employment.

Good luck. The effort will be worth it.
Well said, Amy2017. Regarding working hard, I'd say that nobody should confuse effort with outcome, either. Salaried individuals generally aren't paid for the former, only mainly the latter.

Cheers.
Ramjet
Posts: 1464
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:45 am

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by Ramjet »

Nobody on their death bed says "I wish I spend more time working". If you can quit working the 9-5 and still be comfortable financially, do it!
Topic Author
JustHappen
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by JustHappen »

Delete
Last edited by JustHappen on Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
4nursebee
Posts: 2664
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:56 am
Location: US

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by 4nursebee »

Amy2017 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 10:49 am
4nursebee wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 3:37 am
3. Have you worked out in your head or on paper how exactly you will spend money in retirement? I'm thinking in terms of withdrawal strategies, though with your real estate this will not be as important. I found such things just as stressful as quitting.
4. What is your plan to handle bad financial and real estate markets?
5. If you bought real estate because it was way underpriced, wouldn't you sell if it was way overpriced?
3. Yes. I have a working document that ranks both investment and retirement withdrawal priority. I understand what you mean by stressful and my real estate investment indeed makes this task much easier.
4. We got into real estate investment during housing crisis. So I am definitely familiar with bad real estate market. Since we had done pretty well last time, I don't think we will run into big issues if it happens again. As far as other liquid investment, I will try to stay the course.
5. No, I don't plan to sell them any time soon for several reasons. Since we have always been more concerned about current rent than current value of properties, as long as the rent keeps up with the inflation, we are good. Besides, if I do sell the properties, where do I safely park the cash that could keep up with the inflation? Not mention the potential tax consequence.

I do not know about tax consequences.

Our investments grew such that we no longer wanted to be bothered with our self managed properties. We sold them with minimal closing costs and did not have to worry about taxes as we had other growing business expenses with larger start up costs. Prior to that our ROI was near 20%. Perhaps we were too kind and did not raise rents enough. The new owner raised rents about 33% and has everything full. Might you need to raise rent?

If you net up to 150K on 4M properties, that nets 3.75% return. In and of itself, that looks paltry. It is 15% return on 1M though.

I used to always look at my investments and compare them to an annuity: https://www.immediateannuities.com/

4M, my sate, your age yields 223,320 per year. 5.58%.

Rent money coming in is a great gig and great peace of mind in market turmoil.
Pale Blue Dot
Pitagoras
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:51 am

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by Pitagoras »

slacker2022 wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:55 pm My other thought is if you don't care if you get fired or laid off, I would just say no to doing unimportant things and just work on doing things that matter at work. I know it's easier said than done. I'm in IT field as well. ( There are critical things that need to be done and things that are just complete waste of time or unreasonable. ) The worst case you get fired or more likely you get laid off with severance if they don't like it. You can also try to negotiate a shorter work week or shorter hours, etc. Once employment is not a necessity, you have a lot of options. I'm trying to get to where you are financially in 5-10 years myself so I can say no to dumb stuff at work and/or plan out my exit on my terms.
I vote for this...it seems you can leave today. I would try not to leave with empty hands, and negotiate an exit package. If not, then start working on your own terms until you reach some piece, if they do not like it, then they always can let you go.
Topic Author
JustHappen
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by JustHappen »

Delete
Last edited by JustHappen on Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kellerreiss
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:09 am

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by Kellerreiss »

I'm in similar situation, workwise, and offer one more alternative: "work less" at same job. You've got rock-solid work security, paid below market, and can obviously "rock boat" by being less accommodating, less reliably responsible. Aim for average, then work another year and re-evaluate situation.
deikel
Posts: 1616
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:13 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by deikel »

A couple of things puzzle me:

When you get close to FIRE you should usually feel freed and the BS at work should bother you less. Clearly OP does not feel that way (and neither do I, I am in a similar boat)...in an odd twist, it actually got worse for me and I get less (!) tolerant of nonesense since I value my time more....but at he same time I can not bring myself to leave (the team behind).

I think your observation that the kids need you to have a job is probably accurate, your youngest response was very mature IMO. Its probably reasonable to assume that after the death of your husband, they do not want another event that changes their life (perceived or real) - after all, job loss is in the top 10 life events of stressors. I forgot if you mentioned the age of the kids, but maybe trying to prep for college away form home is already enough change for them to handle ?

I also get the feeling that you yourself are not really thrilled for a life change right now (don't raise rent too much, perceived unfair to tenants, would like to keep nanny even beyond the kids age, stick to a job that has become unpleasant to you although you are surely financially OK to do so). Maybe some sessions with professional help could provide clarity of what is needed ?

What do you want to retire towards ?

Its one thing to leave a toxic situation to preserve mental health (fight or flight really, not much other choice that is healthy, you already choose a low grade version of fight and it seems to have removed the CIO), but I think it would be good to work towards what you do want your life to look like instead ? Do you want to take the CIOs job and give that a try ? Volunteer in the area of your expertise - which I take is somewhere in housing/real estate ?

Personally, I would get rid of the rentals, other then you draw positivity out of being a landlord ? You are clearly not doing it for the money, the money is just incidental...why do you do it then ?

Have you traveled lately (entire family with nanny) to get some other perspective - maybe for a whole 4 weeks or to a whole different place (oversees) - just as a teaser that may clarify things when you get back to the grind. May cost some, but may also simulate what mom at home may mean for the kids...they may like it.

Interesting company you work for, after your email to the CEO I was convinced you would be gone - interesting to see a very different outcome....good luck.
Everything you read in this post is my personal opinion. If you disagree with this disclaimer, please un-read the text immediately and destroy any copy or remembrance of it.
tnr
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:36 am

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by tnr »

Amy2017 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 1:48 pm Here is the update. Since I wrote the letter more than 2 months ago, no one had contacted me for anything. I was told by a close friend that most likely I would get fired before upper management took any action. So I had planned July 1 would be my last day. Then our CIO, the one in charge of our IT department, was suddenly terminated last week. I did not see this coming and was totally caught off guard. Later I got an email from the CEO who thanked me to give them time to consider and respond to my concerns. He also asked CFO to reach out to me so that CFO and I may discuss some of the suggestions mentioned in my email. In our company, CIO reports to CFO. I am very glad that I have not submitted resignation letter yet. I have no interest in taking any manager position or asking raise. All I want is a better working environment for myself. In the end, I feel low level employees may not be as powerless as we thought we are. So for now, I will stay.
What a surprising turn of events! If it were me, I’d ask for continued remote work, and a small raise. Takes courage to do what you did so ask for some reward.

Wait and see if anything changes. Reassess situation every six months. Keep the resignation letter up to date and ready in case things don’t change or even get worse for you.

Start telling your kids that managing your rentals is becoming more and more a full time job.
finite_difference
Posts: 3633
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:00 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by finite_difference »

I would definitely retire.

You have a full time job already with kids and those rentals!
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
4thand11
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:39 pm

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by 4thand11 »

Well you have plenty of savings not to mention regular rental income. Finances are clearly not an issue.

It seems like a no-brainer to me. Many people do keep working even if they no longer need to for financial reasons. However, those people usually like/love their jobs. It sounds as if you don't. You've already written the letter. You're 95% there to making the obvious decision, it sounds like.

Also it is cliche but there is truth to the idea that once you make a change, other things may come along that you could not have predicted. Perhaps a new PT position, or a new FT opportunity, or even just a hobby that you now have more time for, that morphs into a business.

My advice would be go for it, you are in the financial position to do it and you have the luxury of being picky about what you do next.
User avatar
220volt
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: Quit and retire or stay?

Post by 220volt »

I am in the same situation as you (except the net worth part) working for a large IT company and I would have quit in January. It depends on your personality and whether your identity is tied to your job.
For mw, if I had that kind of money as a safety, I would get a part-time job or a hobby that I really enjoy. Something completely different from IT. I am also entering my 50's and I look at it as a third chapter in my life and I want it to be entirely separate from my IT career.
"If I had only followed the advice of financial analysts in 2008, I'd have a million dollars today, provided I started with a hundred million dollars" - Jon Stewart
Post Reply