HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

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SnowBog
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by SnowBog »

nolesrule wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:04 pm Also, the interest deposit itself counts toward the total deposit amount used in the savings threshold calculation, so it won't be difficult to pull out all of the direct deposit funds and then some if I end up approaching the balance cap for earning interest.
I'm not sure if this is true... I haven't noticed either the monthly interest or CC cash back counting as part of the deposits/savings rate. Maybe I just haven't noticed it... But I doubt it.
nolesrule
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by nolesrule »

SnowBog wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:51 pm
nolesrule wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:04 pm Also, the interest deposit itself counts toward the total deposit amount used in the savings threshold calculation, so it won't be difficult to pull out all of the direct deposit funds and then some if I end up approaching the balance cap for earning interest.
I'm not sure if this is true... I haven't noticed either the monthly interest or CC cash back counting as part of the deposits/savings rate. Maybe I just haven't noticed it... But I doubt it.
It is true, because I tested it out last quarter.

My DD was $100 per paycheck or $600 for the quarter and that was the only inflows to the account apart from interest. I withdrew $815, which was $215 more than the sum of my deposits, excluding interest. That would disqualify me from any savings tier if what I said was false. On December 31, before the December interest posted, it told me I was going to qualify for Tier 3. When I got up on Jan 1 and the interest had posted, i was at Tier 1 (well, Tier S since I got the credit card in December).

Additionally, when it showed the total deposits and withdrawals figures during the qualification period, the total deposits included the interest amounts.

I don't have a screen grab and I'm not going to post the full transaction history (because it would give away my balance in the account), but I would hope you believe me based on the description.
SnowBog
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by SnowBog »

nolesrule wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 7:40 am
SnowBog wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:51 pm
nolesrule wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:04 pm Also, the interest deposit itself counts toward the total deposit amount used in the savings threshold calculation, so it won't be difficult to pull out all of the direct deposit funds and then some if I end up approaching the balance cap for earning interest.
I'm not sure if this is true... I haven't noticed either the monthly interest or CC cash back counting as part of the deposits/savings rate. Maybe I just haven't noticed it... But I doubt it.
It is true, because I tested it out last quarter.

My DD was $100 per paycheck or $600 for the quarter and that was the only inflows to the account apart from interest. I withdrew $815, which was $215 more than the sum of my deposits, excluding interest. That would disqualify me from any savings tier if what I said was false. On December 31, before the December interest posted, it told me I was going to qualify for Tier 3. When I got up on Jan 1 and the interest had posted, i was at Tier 1 (well, Tier S since I got the credit card in December).

Additionally, when it showed the total deposits and withdrawals figures during the qualification period, the total deposits included the interest amounts.

I don't have a screen grab and I'm not going to post the full transaction history (because it would give away my balance in the account), but I would hope you believe me based on the description.
Glad it worked for you!
patrick
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by patrick »

HMBradley just announced that the monthly deposit requirement is being reduced to $1500. This will make it easier to qualify the 3% rate.

It also makes it easier to keep the account right at the cap. If depositing the minimum, you'd now have $1750 a month going in including interest rather than $2750. This reduces the amount of credit card spending required each month from $550 to $350.
nolesrule
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by nolesrule »

patrick wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:49 pm HMBradley just announced that the monthly deposit requirement is being reduced to $1500. This will make it easier to qualify the 3% rate.

It also makes it easier to keep the account right at the cap. If depositing the minimum, you'd now have $1750 a month going in including interest rather than $2750. This reduces the amount of credit card spending required each month from $550 to $350.
That's great. Too bad my employer makes it such a pain to change direct deposit.

I'll deal with it later if I approach the cap.
MrJedi
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by MrJedi »

Sounds like enough people complained or pulled money out.

I don't like the CC spending bit still since it's something I would have to track every month. I will continue to pass.
ChiKid24
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by ChiKid24 »

MrJedi wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:25 pm Sounds like enough people complained or pulled money out.

I don't like the CC spending bit still since it's something I would have to track every month. I will continue to pass.
It's pretty easy to hit the $100 a month. I use it only at restaurants and get 3% cash back.
MrJedi
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by MrJedi »

ChiKid24 wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:30 pm
MrJedi wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:25 pm Sounds like enough people complained or pulled money out.

I don't like the CC spending bit still since it's something I would have to track every month. I will continue to pass.
It's pretty easy to hit the $100 a month. I use it only at restaurants and get 3% cash back.
If I had a brainless way to use it like that, I would consider it but I am not seeing one in my circumstances right now. Ideally I could just throw some monthly subscriptions on it but those do not total $100 for me (or the $300+ needed to try and net the cash flow to zero). I have a $400/monthly HOA that allows CC payments but there is a 4% fee. I have considered that but that fee plus the CC annual fee starting the second year are kind of turn offs. If I needed 100k in cash I think I would do it but I only have a need for maybe 30k or so and those fees would eat into the interest a decent amount.
engaged73016
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by engaged73016 »

patrick wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:49 pm HMBradley just announced that the monthly deposit requirement is being reduced to $1500. This will make it easier to qualify the 3% rate.

It also makes it easier to keep the account right at the cap. If depositing the minimum, you'd now have $1750 a month going in including interest rather than $2750. This reduces the amount of credit card spending required each month from $550 to $350.
That's good news! Also the bit about the credit card waiver for the first quarter, since I still have not received mine..
Out of curiosity, did you happen to check their website to hear about this? I have not received an email from them about it.
jst
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by jst »

I didn't get an email, but I do see now that here:

https://www.hmbradley.com/blog/the-hmbradley-ecosystem

they say:
Existing HMBradley Credit Card customers must:
Have an active HMBradley Deposit Account and HMBradley Credit Card;
Qualify for a Savings Tier in your HMBradley Deposit Account;
Receive $1,500 in direct deposits each month to your HMBradley Deposit Account; and
Spend $100 every billing period on the HMBradley Credit Card.
So now I can turn my 401K back up a bit and still cover the $1500/month/account.
ChiKid24
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by ChiKid24 »

engaged73016 wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:36 pm
patrick wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:49 pm HMBradley just announced that the monthly deposit requirement is being reduced to $1500. This will make it easier to qualify the 3% rate.

It also makes it easier to keep the account right at the cap. If depositing the minimum, you'd now have $1750 a month going in including interest rather than $2750. This reduces the amount of credit card spending required each month from $550 to $350.
That's good news! Also the bit about the credit card waiver for the first quarter, since I still have not received mine..
Out of curiosity, did you happen to check their website to hear about this? I have not received an email from them about it.
I didn't get any email from them about it either, but confirmed it on the website when I saw patrick's post. If you log in and are on your Savings homepage, there is a banner to click that says "Learn About Our New Rates". Then scroll down towards the bottom of the page and you'll see this:

Existing HMBradley Credit Card customers must:
Have an active HMBradley Deposit Account and HMBradley Credit Card;
Qualify for a Savings Tier in your HMBradley Deposit Account;
Receive $1,500 in direct deposits each month to your HMBradley Deposit Account; and
Spend $100 every billing period on the HMBradley Credit Card.
nolesrule
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by nolesrule »

MrJedi wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:35 pm
ChiKid24 wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:30 pm
MrJedi wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:25 pm Sounds like enough people complained or pulled money out.

I don't like the CC spending bit still since it's something I would have to track every month. I will continue to pass.
It's pretty easy to hit the $100 a month. I use it only at restaurants and get 3% cash back.
If I had a brainless way to use it like that, I would consider it but I am not seeing one in my circumstances right now. Ideally I could just throw some monthly subscriptions on it but those do not total $100 for me (or the $300+ needed to try and net the cash flow to zero). I have a $400/monthly HOA that allows CC payments but there is a 4% fee. I have considered that but that fee plus the CC annual fee starting the second year are kind of turn offs. If I needed 100k in cash I think I would do it but I only have a need for maybe 30k or so and those fees would eat into the interest a decent amount.
Cell phone, internet, natural gas and electricity are all the same category for me and will run at least $400 in a low energy month, so I switched over their autopays. The plan is to just stick with those for the 3%. If have a large one-time expense for the month that I know will exceed that amount, I'll put it on the card. For example, this month we had $1600 in wear and tear maintenance on my wife's car, so we put that on the card. It'll bump the others to 2% which matches my regular everyday card, so nothing is lost.
JBTX
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by JBTX »

After January I'll no longer get 3.0% because I don't have the credit card and can't get the credit card because I keep my credit frozen, even though they have credit score and other credit info of mine on their site. Keeping all credit agencies open all the time is not a reasonable requirement, if that is what it takes.
jst
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by jst »

JBTX wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:27 pm After January I'll no longer get 3.0% because I don't have the credit card and can't get the credit card because I keep my credit frozen, even though they have credit score and other credit info of mine on their site. Keeping all credit agencies open all the time is not a reasonable requirement, if that is what it takes.
I keep all of mine frozen also, and it didn't seem to be an issue for me.
JBTX
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by JBTX »

jst wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:24 pm
JBTX wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:27 pm After January I'll no longer get 3.0% because I don't have the credit card and can't get the credit card because I keep my credit frozen, even though they have credit score and other credit info of mine on their site. Keeping all credit agencies open all the time is not a reasonable requirement, if that is what it takes.
I keep all of mine frozen also, and it didn't seem to be an issue for me.
They responded and said they pull Trans union.
MrJedi
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by MrJedi »

Where does the idea that credit needs to be kept unfrozen all the time come from?

They soft pull to generate invitations. To accept invitation I have read that some people get hard pull and some do not. I don't believe unfreezing is necessary unless you get the hard pull during acceptance. You would be able to refreeze after that though.
SnowBog
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by SnowBog »

nolesrule wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:53 pm
MrJedi wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:35 pm
ChiKid24 wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:30 pm
MrJedi wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:25 pm Sounds like enough people complained or pulled money out.

I don't like the CC spending bit still since it's something I would have to track every month. I will continue to pass.
It's pretty easy to hit the $100 a month. I use it only at restaurants and get 3% cash back.
If I had a brainless way to use it like that, I would consider it but I am not seeing one in my circumstances right now. Ideally I could just throw some monthly subscriptions on it but those do not total $100 for me (or the $300+ needed to try and net the cash flow to zero). I have a $400/monthly HOA that allows CC payments but there is a 4% fee. I have considered that but that fee plus the CC annual fee starting the second year are kind of turn offs. If I needed 100k in cash I think I would do it but I only have a need for maybe 30k or so and those fees would eat into the interest a decent amount.
Cell phone, internet, natural gas and electricity are all the same category for me and will run at least $400 in a low energy month, so I switched over their autopays. The plan is to just stick with those for the 3%. If have a large one-time expense for the month that I know will exceed that amount, I'll put it on the card. For example, this month we had $1600 in wear and tear maintenance on my wife's car, so we put that on the card. It'll bump the others to 2% which matches my regular everyday card, so nothing is lost.
This is exactly what we do! :beer
jst
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by jst »

I can confirm that my direct deposit of between $1500 and $2500 has qualified me for the month.
SnowBog
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by SnowBog »

As a PSA, if you have an HMBradley account, recommend changing password. As always, recommend using a unique password and enable multi factor authentication.

Got an email, and noticed an banner when you log in encouraging you to do so. I skimmed the email, but it sounded like hackers were trying to use credentials gained from another source (not HMBradley) to break in. If I read that right, only people who reuse passwords (and do not have MFA enabled) would be at risk. But it's good advice to change passwords - just in case...

And unless other news comes out, this in no way changes my opinion of HMBradley. These are common attacks.
jst
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by jst »

I do feel like they shouldn't recommend 2FA to those of us who already use 2FA. Looks pretty amateur.
SnowBog
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by SnowBog »

jst wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 12:04 pm I do feel like they shouldn't recommend 2FA to those of us who already use 2FA. Looks pretty amateur.
Fidelity recommends 2FA, even though I have it configured.

My bank, same thing...

I have no problem with this. It's a reminder to make sure you have it setup, and an encouragement to make sure you do it on other sites where you can.
ps2me11
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by ps2me11 »

I am not able to login to my HMBradley account for more than a month now. ReInstalled app, tried desktop same error “invalid fields” which is different from “invalid login” when you provide incorrect login info. There is no response on email. I don’t have any phone number to contact. At this point I am planning to withdraw all my money from it. Any ideas?
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Nate79
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by Nate79 »

ps2me11 wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:50 am I am not able to login to my HMBradley account for more than a month now. ReInstalled app, tried desktop same error “invalid fields” which is different from “invalid login” when you provide incorrect login info. There is no response on email. I don’t have any phone number to contact. At this point I am planning to withdraw all my money from it. Any ideas?
Have you tried the chat function? I'm not sure if they can help or not:
https://support.hmbradley.com/contact-us
SnowBog
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by SnowBog »

ps2me11 wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:50 am I am not able to login to my HMBradley account for more than a month now. ReInstalled app, tried desktop same error “invalid fields” which is different from “invalid login” when you provide incorrect login info. There is no response on email. I don’t have any phone number to contact. At this point I am planning to withdraw all my money from it. Any ideas?
+1 on trying "chat" to get a hold of someone (during work hours), I've had success getting responses for questions I've asked via chat.

But an error of "invalid fields" seems like it's a "local error" on your side... If you have the wrong username and password, you'd get something like "login failed".

I'd be trying "InPrivate" and/or "Incognito" browser sessions...

I'd be tempted to download and use a different browser (if you use Chrome, download and use Microsoft Edge, or use Duck Duck Go - anything that is a "clean" install).

I'd also be tempted to "reset" my browser, including removing all extensions, assuming something in there is causing this problem, especially if the above works.

Might even go so far as to try from another network/location - in case your network is causing issues (less common for home networks, but some corporate networks have things that can interfere with accessing some sites).

And if you are still having issues - I'd "ask a friend" if you can borrow their phone/tablet/computer and see if it works on there...

Again, my working theory is "invalid fields" seems most likely a "local" issue on your side.
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Vulcan
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by Vulcan »

...so, do y'all think HMBradley will keep up with raising rates environment, or will their offering gradually get less attractive, what with having to jump through the hoops for what is now essentially just a 1.5% APR premium over Vanguard's money market fund, and shrinking by the week?

If they do not raise their rates soon, I am considering cancelling their credit card card (and, consequently, direct deposit) before the annual fee is due.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
engaged73016
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by engaged73016 »

Vulcan wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:33 pm ...so, do y'all think HMBradley will keep up with raising rates environment, or will their offering gradually get less attractive, what with having to jump through the hoops for what is now essentially just a 1.5% APR premium over Vanguard's money market fund, and shrinking by the week?

If they do not raise their rates soon, I am considering cancelling their credit card card (and, consequently, direct deposit) before the annual fee is due.
I am not very confident.

Re CC, if you cancel it, are you sure you'll avoid the annual fee?
FWIW, a relative who already had an account but not the CC, recently tried to open the CC, and was told that they are not currently giving new CCs. They are in the process of reevaluating their offering apparently.
jst
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by jst »

I seriously doubt they'll raise rates - at least not until/unless the 3% looks silly.

I'm still hoop-jumping, but I'm definitely getting tired of it.
patrick
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by patrick »

Vulcan wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:33 pm ...so, do y'all think HMBradley will keep up with raising rates environment, or will their offering gradually get less attractive, what with having to jump through the hoops for what is now essentially just a 1.5% APR premium over Vanguard's money market fund, and shrinking by the week?

If they do not raise their rates soon, I am considering cancelling their credit card card (and, consequently, direct deposit) before the annual fee is due.
Their top rate of 3% is still better than you can get on unrestricted deposit accounts (the best being 1.8% from BrioDirect) so there may not be much pressure for them to increase it further.

I've already removed all my money from HMBradley since they reduced it from the previous 3.5% while bond yields were increasing. Their earlier offer lasted longer than I had expected.

I had no difficulty withdrawing all the money through ACH, which confirms that the answer to the title question is yes, it is safe. But it no longer seems like a great deal these days.
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Vulcan
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by Vulcan »

engaged73016 wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:53 pm
Vulcan wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:33 pm ...so, do y'all think HMBradley will keep up with raising rates environment, or will their offering gradually get less attractive, what with having to jump through the hoops for what is now essentially just a 1.5% APR premium over Vanguard's money market fund, and shrinking by the week?

If they do not raise their rates soon, I am considering cancelling their credit card card (and, consequently, direct deposit) before the annual fee is due.
I am not very confident.

Re CC, if you cancel it, are you sure you'll avoid the annual fee?
Would they charge an annual fee on a closed account? :shock:
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
SnowBog
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by SnowBog »

Vulcan wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:33 pm ...so, do y'all think HMBradley will keep up with raising rates environment, or will their offering gradually get less attractive, what with having to jump through the hoops for what is now essentially just a 1.5% APR premium over Vanguard's money market fund, and shrinking by the week?

If they do not raise their rates soon, I am considering cancelling their credit card card (and, consequently, direct deposit) before the annual fee is due.
Personally, I highly doubt that MM funds will sustain a > 3% rate going into the future (at least I hope not - as ideally inflation drops at some point). So, I plan to keep my HMB account for as long as I can - as I hope over the long term it will have some premium. Plus, the "hoop jumping" is a non-event for me at this point...
patrick wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:48 pm ...Their earlier offer lasted longer than I had expected...
+1 - the 3.5% rate lasted way longer than I had expected. And arguably so is the current 3% rate...
engaged73016 wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:53 pm I am not very confident.
..
FWIW, a relative who already had an account but not the CC, recently tried to open the CC, and was told that they are not currently giving new CCs. They are in the process of reevaluating their offering apparently.
+1 - They've been back in "invite only" mode longer than I expected. So, I guess I'm not surprised they aren't offering new CC now either...

Oddly, one would think with the underlying rates going up - that would make things better for HMBradley - as their higher rate is "costing" them less...

But I was a little shocked/disappointed several weeks ago when I got a "survey" from them asking for feedback, including capabilities we'd like to see added - with a lot of emphasis on crypto. That was - and is - a big red flag for me. While I've enjoyed the 3%+ rate far longer than expected, and intend to do so for as long as it makes sense, if they go down the crypto route - that will make me re-evaluate things...
patrick
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by patrick »

SnowBog wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:58 pm
Vulcan wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:33 pm ...so, do y'all think HMBradley will keep up with raising rates environment, or will their offering gradually get less attractive, what with having to jump through the hoops for what is now essentially just a 1.5% APR premium over Vanguard's money market fund, and shrinking by the week?

If they do not raise their rates soon, I am considering cancelling their credit card card (and, consequently, direct deposit) before the annual fee is due.
Personally, I highly doubt that MM funds will sustain a > 3% rate going into the future (at least I hope not - as ideally inflation drops at some point). So, I plan to keep my HMB account for as long as I can - as I hope over the long term it will have some premium. Plus, the "hoop jumping" is a non-event for me at this point...
I suppose the decision also depends on whether you want a large allocation specifically to cash. If you do, HMBradley seems worth keeping as long as it is above money market funds or plain deposits accounts, which may be a long time.

I only have a general fixed income allocation and don't think of cash as something special. One year ago, HMBradley paid 3.5% while 30-year treasuries were only paying 1.94%, so I considered HMBradley better than bonds despite the credit card fee and state taxes on its interest. Now that HMBradley is down to 3% and 30-year treasuries are up to 3.2% my conclusion is the opposite.
checkyourmath
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by checkyourmath »

SnowBog wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:58 pm
Vulcan wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:33 pm ...so, do y'all think HMBradley will keep up with raising rates environment, or will their offering gradually get less attractive, what with having to jump through the hoops for what is now essentially just a 1.5% APR premium over Vanguard's money market fund, and shrinking by the week?

If they do not raise their rates soon, I am considering cancelling their credit card card (and, consequently, direct deposit) before the annual fee is due.
Personally, I highly doubt that MM funds will sustain a > 3% rate going into the future (at least I hope not - as ideally inflation drops at some point). So, I plan to keep my HMB account for as long as I can - as I hope over the long term it will have some premium. Plus, the "hoop jumping" is a non-event for me at this point...
patrick wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:48 pm ...Their earlier offer lasted longer than I had expected...
+1 - the 3.5% rate lasted way longer than I had expected. And arguably so is the current 3% rate...
engaged73016 wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:53 pm I am not very confident.
..
FWIW, a relative who already had an account but not the CC, recently tried to open the CC, and was told that they are not currently giving new CCs. They are in the process of reevaluating their offering apparently.
+1 - They've been back in "invite only" mode longer than I expected. So, I guess I'm not surprised they aren't offering new CC now either...

Oddly, one would think with the underlying rates going up - that would make things better for HMBradley - as their higher rate is "costing" them less...

But I was a little shocked/disappointed several weeks ago when I got a "survey" from them asking for feedback, including capabilities we'd like to see added - with a lot of emphasis on crypto. That was - and is - a big red flag for me. While I've enjoyed the 3%+ rate far longer than expected, and intend to do so for as long as it makes sense, if they go down the crypto route - that will make me re-evaluate things...
I second that that crypto question in their survey was very sketchy. They have my money for another 6 months until the Fed funds rate is above 3 percent and Ally ends up offering the same rate without having to jump through all the hoops.
SnowBog
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by SnowBog »

patrick wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:39 pm
SnowBog wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:58 pm
Vulcan wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:33 pm ...so, do y'all think HMBradley will keep up with raising rates environment, or will their offering gradually get less attractive, what with having to jump through the hoops for what is now essentially just a 1.5% APR premium over Vanguard's money market fund, and shrinking by the week?

If they do not raise their rates soon, I am considering cancelling their credit card card (and, consequently, direct deposit) before the annual fee is due.
Personally, I highly doubt that MM funds will sustain a > 3% rate going into the future (at least I hope not - as ideally inflation drops at some point). So, I plan to keep my HMB account for as long as I can - as I hope over the long term it will have some premium. Plus, the "hoop jumping" is a non-event for me at this point...
I suppose the decision also depends on whether you want a large allocation specifically to cash. If you do, HMBradley seems worth keeping as long as it is above money market funds or plain deposits accounts, which may be a long time.

I only have a general fixed income allocation and don't think of cash as something special. One year ago, HMBradley paid 3.5% while 30-year treasuries were only paying 1.94%, so I considered HMBradley better than bonds despite the credit card fee and state taxes on its interest. Now that HMBradley is down to 3% and 30-year treasuries are up to 3.2% my conclusion is the opposite.
Good point. Depending on how you look at it I hold between 6 - 12 months of expenses in cash or 6 months plus enough to front load 529 + HSA + 2x Backdoor Roth + 2-4x I Bonds + EE Bonds (now just 1x).

Specific to my HMBradley account, that usually means dropping to around $30k in January and growing towards a little under $100k by end of December. I also keep 1 months expenses in a checking account and a few months in a more liquid "savings" account - which just got moved back to Fidelity CMA given their MM rates higher than my HYSA.

So at roughly 2x current rates, that means HMBradley still pays me an extra $450 - $1500 a year ($900 - $3000 year total) plus the 3/2/1 credit card cash back (which more than covers its fee in how I use it).

That's enough to justify the extra time for me.

But I'm not sure I'd do so if the amount of cash I keep was significantly less...
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by frugalor »

SnowBog wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:09 pm
Specific to my HMBradley account, that usually means dropping to around $30k in January and growing towards a little under $100k by end of December.
When you drop, you lose 3 months of interest, right?

I have doubts on the safety of the fintechs given the recent crypto platform bankruptcy situation...
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by SnowBog »

frugalor wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:47 pm
SnowBog wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:09 pm
Specific to my HMBradley account, that usually means dropping to around $30k in January and growing towards a little under $100k by end of December.
When you drop, you lose 3 months of interest, right?

I have doubts on the safety of the fintechs given the recent crypto platform bankruptcy situation...
Surprisingly - not yet...

But to add some context:
  • At the end of every quarter I withdraw 80% of any deposits made in the quarter (ensuring I keep 20% "saved" to earn the 3% tier)
  • These are deposited back when the new quarter starts - so I keep more of my deposits "liquid" (while maintaining the 20% savings rate)
  • I take advantage of the credit card being paid from the account not counting against the savings rate (any "large" purchases where I can't earn > 3% on a different card - are typically made on my HMBradley card to earn 3% and keep my balance from growing too much)
  • Coincidentally, my cash flow/savings is such that my largest deposits are normally in Q3 + Q4
Combined, I was able to withdraw nearly $70k last January without losing my 3% savings rate. Much of that was lucky timing with a higher cash flow near year end, making it easier to withdraw a larger amount, especially when combined with withdrawing 80% every quarter and returning it.

But even if you just deposit $750 twice a month (total of $18k/year), and do the above, you can still withdraw just over $9k at the end of the year staying in the top 3% rate the entire time.
frugalor wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:47 pm I have doubts on the safety of the fintechs given the recent crypto platform bankruptcy situation...
With HMBradley - your money is on deposit at an FDIC insured bank - by default Hatch bank. I have a routing number for Hatch and an account number - same as I do for any other bank. And I can move my money freely in or out at anytime just via ACH. As such - I'm not overly concerned.
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by PicassoSparks »

This is very helpful and more sophisticated gaming of the HMB rules than I’d managed to work out. Thanks for sharing them.
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

Post by frugalor »

SnowBog wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:41 pm
frugalor wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:47 pm
SnowBog wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:09 pm
Specific to my HMBradley account, that usually means dropping to around $30k in January and growing towards a little under $100k by end of December.
When you drop, you lose 3 months of interest, right?

I have doubts on the safety of the fintechs given the recent crypto platform bankruptcy situation...
Surprisingly - not yet...

But to add some context:
  • At the end of every quarter I withdraw 80% of any deposits made in the quarter (ensuring I keep 20% "saved" to earn the 3% tier)
  • These are deposited back when the new quarter starts - so I keep more of my deposits "liquid" (while maintaining the 20% savings rate)
  • I take advantage of the credit card being paid from the account not counting against the savings rate (any "large" purchases where I can't earn > 3% on a different card - are typically made on my HMBradley card to earn 3% and keep my balance from growing too much)
  • Coincidentally, my cash flow/savings is such that my largest deposits are normally in Q3 + Q4
Combined, I was able to withdraw nearly $70k last January without losing my 3% savings rate. Much of that was lucky timing with a higher cash flow near year end, making it easier to withdraw a larger amount, especially when combined with withdrawing 80% every quarter and returning it.

But even if you just deposit $750 twice a month (total of $18k/year), and do the above, you can still withdraw just over $9k at the end of the year staying in the top 3% rate the entire time.
frugalor wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:47 pm I have doubts on the safety of the fintechs given the recent crypto platform bankruptcy situation...
With HMBradley - your money is on deposit at an FDIC insured bank - by default Hatch bank. I have a routing number for Hatch and an account number - same as I do for any other bank. And I can move my money freely in or out at anytime just via ACH. As such - I'm not overly concerned.
Your strategy makes sense. But eventually your total savings will exceed $100K, with very little net deposits for the latest quarter. And you said you could drop to a very low amount, and repeat your strategy again in a new year. Unless I am mistaken, when you drop from the top to the bottom, it has to be more than 80% of your latest quarter deposits. Your savings rate has to drop according to their rules. Not sure why your rate didn't drop and you were able to "rinse and repeat" for multiple years.
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frugalor wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:24 pm Your strategy makes sense. But eventually your total savings will exceed $100K, with very little net deposits for the latest quarter. And you said you could drop to a very low amount, and repeat your strategy again in a new year. Unless I am mistaken, when you drop from the top to the bottom, it has to be more than 80% of your latest quarter deposits. Your savings rate has to drop according to their rules. Not sure why your rate didn't drop and you were able to "rinse and repeat" for multiple years.
So far it's only worked for the first year, but I think I'm on track for a second year as well... But eventually, I'm sure I'll break the 20% savings requirement. When I do, my plan is to empty the account to rest the baseline to $0, park the balance in a HYSA for a quarter, then start again.

As noted, two things help me.

I take advantage of the 3% cash back card - whose payments do not count against your 20% savings, to help keep the balance below (or near enough) $100k. This past year I had a few big ticket items that really helped.

Usually, the bulk of my cash build up happens later in the year (after I've ideally maxed out tax-advantaged accounts). This helps as using the quarterly method I use above, you can essentially pull out:
  • 80% of Q4 deposits
  • Effectively 64% of Q3 deposits (80% of the 80% pulled out)
  • Effectively 51% of Q2 deposits (80% of 80% of 80%)
  • Effectively 41% of Q1 deposits (80% of 80% of 80% of 80%)
So when the bulk of the annual buildup happens in Q3 + Q4, you can pull out most of it still staying in the 20% savings rate.
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I should alternatively note that if you don't intend on pulling out large sums, you can basically sustain a $100k balance earning $3k in interest a year.

To get the 3% rate, you'll need to contribute $1500/month. You can withdraw $1200/month, but you need to keep at least $300/month to stay at the 20% savings rate. At the 3% interest rate on $100k, you'll get $250/month in interest. So you have $550/month to offset.

Let's say you have regular monthly expenses like utilities that are roughly $550/month - just pay those with the credit card, then pay the balance off from your account balance. You can keep this up indefinitely!
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Post by frugalor »

Oh I see. I missed the fact that paying off the credit card using the checking account doesn't impact the savings rate. Awesome math. Thanks!
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I suspect we'll see VMFXX in 2%+ range before tax savings in August.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
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Vulcan wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:25 am I suspect we'll see VMFXX in 2%+ range before tax savings in August.
Even if we do... Do you think it will last 2+ years?

That's how long (roughly) HMBradley has been at 3%+. And there why I'm planning on keeping the account as long as it makes sense. With rates on the rise, it might not be as attractive in the coming months... But assuming rates will eventually fall again, it might become very attractive again.
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SnowBog wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:09 pm
Vulcan wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:25 am I suspect we'll see VMFXX in 2%+ range before tax savings in August.
Even if we do... Do you think it will last 2+ years?

That's how long (roughly) HMBradley has been at 3%+. And there why I'm planning on keeping the account as long as it makes sense. With rates on the rise, it might not be as attractive in the coming months... But assuming rates will eventually fall again, it might become very attractive again.
I do not know what will happen with interest rates (and if higher inflation sticks around), nor what will become of HMB in two years (previous two years seem to indicate their business model didn't exactly pan out).

If their rates become meh, I guess I could keep paying annual fee for a credit card I do not otherwise want (it's the only card with annual fee than I have), but I lack the inner conviction it would be a good insurance policy to purchase.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

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https://investor.vanguard.com/investmen ... file/vmfxx

VMFXX has 0.19% YTD returns and 0.11% expense ratio. How can it go up to 2%?
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frugalor wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:52 pm https://investor.vanguard.com/investmen ... file/vmfxx

VMFXX has 0.19% YTD returns and 0.11% expense ratio. How can it go up to 2%?
7 day SEC yield 1.43% and growing by the day.

Next Fed meeting in 2.5 weeks expected to raise rates another 0.75%.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
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Oh you are right!

Fidelity Government Money Market Fund SPAXX is only 0.99% for 7-day yield. Why Vanguard is much higher? 1.43% is better than most banks.
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Also note that this net yield after ER.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

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Vulcan wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:17 pm
SnowBog wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:09 pm
Vulcan wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:25 am I suspect we'll see VMFXX in 2%+ range before tax savings in August.
Even if we do... Do you think it will last 2+ years?

That's how long (roughly) HMBradley has been at 3%+. And there why I'm planning on keeping the account as long as it makes sense. With rates on the rise, it might not be as attractive in the coming months... But assuming rates will eventually fall again, it might become very attractive again.
I do not know what will happen with interest rates (and if higher inflation sticks around), nor what will become of HMB in two years (previous two years seem to indicate their business model didn't exactly pan out).

If their rates become meh, I guess I could keep paying annual fee for a credit card I do not otherwise want (it's the only card with annual fee than I have), but I lack the inner conviction it would be a good insurance policy to purchase.
I'd actually argue that them keeping the 3%+ rate they've had for roughly 2 years is a good sign. And if we take their comments at face value, that they had to go back to the "wait list" model because they couldn't keep up with demand, that it was proving popular.

I could even argue that the underlying rates increasing is a "good thing" for their business model, as it means their "costs" to provide higher rates is less than it was previously. Having to pay 3% when rates there were a while were < 0.5% is a big margin. If rates go back to 1-2% range, that extra 1% (or so) doesn't cost them nearly as much - which should be a good thing for their business model.

As for the fee on the card - I look at it more simply I guess - the card is effectively free to me... At 3% on the "top" spend category - it's the highest "general" card I have access to. My "normal" cards would be the 2% Fidelity or Citi cards. If I spend $9k at the higher 3% level, the card paid for itself on its own, anything more than that and I'm coming out ahead. I recently moved to the BoA Unlimited Cash card @ 2.625% with their Platinum Honors, which makes justifying the fee on the cash back alone harder (would need to have $24k of spend in top category)... But then I look at "extra" interest on the account, assuming I get at least a 1% bonus interest rate - the card pays for itself with an average savings balance of just $9000. Either way, the card is effectively free to me.

But only time will tell... If they go down this crypto path, or start making other such moves, it may well be time to move on... But right now, and for the foreseeable future (unless they change their plans and/or end their offering), they have by far the best rates for what is ultimately still an FDIC insured account.
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

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frugalor wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:17 pm Oh you are right!

Fidelity Government Money Market Fund SPAXX is only 0.99% for 7-day yield. Why Vanguard is much higher? 1.43% is better than most banks.
You can also look at SPRXX or FZDXX if you can make an initial purchase of $100k, the later is also a 1.43% 7-day yield.
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Re: HM Bradley - is it safe - FDIC response

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SnowBog wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:30 pm
Vulcan wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:17 pm I do not know what will happen with interest rates (and if higher inflation sticks around), nor what will become of HMB in two years (previous two years seem to indicate their business model didn't exactly pan out).

If their rates become meh, I guess I could keep paying annual fee for a credit card I do not otherwise want (it's the only card with annual fee than I have), but I lack the inner conviction it would be a good insurance policy to purchase.
I'd actually argue that them keeping the 3%+ rate they've had for roughly 2 years is a good sign. And if we take their comments at face value, that they had to go back to the "wait list" model because they couldn't keep up with demand, that it was proving popular.
Well, duh, it was proving popular. Just not profitable.
I could even argue that the underlying rates increasing is a "good thing" for their business model, as it means their "costs" to provide higher rates is less than it was previously. Having to pay 3% when rates there were a while were < 0.5% is a big margin. If rates go back to 1-2% range, that extra 1% (or so) doesn't cost them nearly as much - which should be a good thing for their business model.
If their business model over the long term consists of paying <1% over the market rates vs. ~3%, then they are welcome to explore that business model without me as a customer :-)
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
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