I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

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GTBuzz
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by GTBuzz »

Today the Treasury Department released its Monthly Statement of the Public Debt for April and it has some interesting tidbits on Series I Savings Bonds:
  • About $4.3 billion in new Series I Bond sales and interest accrued in April alone (I estimate it's roughly $300 million interest + $4 billion new issues)
  • After a couple years of a flat, roughly $46 billion in outstanding Series I Bonds, that amount has shot up to $61.2 billion mostly over the course of the last six months. Now that the 9.62% rate is published, I'd expect this sharp increase to last a couple more months (chart below).
  • For what I'm sure is the first time ever, Treasury now has more outstanding in Series I Bonds ($61.2 billion) than in Series EE Bonds ($57.7 billion).
Image
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Mel Lindauer
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by Mel Lindauer »

vaylie wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 6:47 pm I'm personally tempted to just keep holding them as long as they are offering rates higher than what I can get at my current HYSAs.
That would be the smart thing to do.
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Mel Lindauer
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by Mel Lindauer »

GerryL wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 7:51 pm
But here is a question I could not find answered on the TD website: Is there a simple way to buy multiple bonds in a single purchase?
I wanted to buy five $1k I Bonds. The only way I saw to do it was to repeat the single bond purchase five times. I saw that I could set up a custom "buy on x date" string of purchases, but I didn't see any option to buy multiple bonds in a single order.
There's no reason to buy multiple bonds since you can redeem any amount of $25 or more as long as you leave $25 in the account. You can even redeem odd numbers, like $59.45.
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Mel Lindauer
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by Mel Lindauer »

hoops777 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 7:27 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 6:22 pm
luxy111 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 4:49 pm Im sorry this is a very basic question...I purchased $10k of ibonds in April --- the balance is still showing as $10k...i guess because its applying the penalty for the first 3 months...

will this update in 4 monhts? (to these levels: https://eyebonds.info/ibonds/10000/ib_2022_04.html) thank you!
Yes, they always withhold the last three months' interest until you reach five years. So at month four, you'll see the first month's interest and it will continue like that.
So if you buy 10,000 today after 6 months it will only show about 10,240 ?

I didn't do any calculation, but after six months you'd show the first three months' worth of interest.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi
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GerryL
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by GerryL »

Mel Lindauer wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 9:30 pm
GerryL wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 7:51 pm
But here is a question I could not find answered on the TD website: Is there a simple way to buy multiple bonds in a single purchase?
I wanted to buy five $1k I Bonds. The only way I saw to do it was to repeat the single bond purchase five times. I saw that I could set up a custom "buy on x date" string of purchases, but I didn't see any option to buy multiple bonds in a single order.
There's no reason to buy multiple bonds since you can redeem any amount of $25 or more as long as you leave $25 in the account. You can even redeem odd numbers, like $59.45.
I guess I didn't see that info because I didn't both reading the FAQs about how to redeem. The pretty much answers my question. I'll do the other $5k as one purchase.
selfdirected
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purchasing bonds in rust

Post by selfdirected »

i spoke with treasurydirect and it is correct i can open entity account and use my own SSN. But i doubt it is a simple, https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/he ... rnMore.htm
rust (Trustee of a Trust). A trust form of registration is available.
The trust form of registration is not available for trusts in which the trustee is acting on behalf of a federal, state, or local government.
The entity account manager must certify that he or she has the authority to act alone on behalf of the trust with regard to the account.
The wording in the registration must specifically identify the trust. The registration must state:
The authority or document creating the trust.
The date the document was executed. (Not necessary in the case of a probated will.)
The name of a trustee who is authorized to act alone on behalf of the trust.
Any information that is necessary to distinguish the trust from any other trust.
Name of the Grantor
Registration examples:
“John Doe, Trustee under Declaration of Trust dated January 1, 2001”
“First National Bank, Trustee under Agreement with William Jones dated January 1, 2001, Employer Identification Number 12-3456789"
"John Doe or Sarah Jones, Trustees under Agreement with Jane Doe dated January 1, 2001”
“Sarah Jones, Trustee under the Will of Matthew Smith, deceased”
The Employer Identification Number of the trust or the Social Security Number of the grantor will be used when establishing the account.
If the trustees are individuals – one of them must be the entity account manager and that person must be named specifically in the registration. (Ex: “John Doe, Trustee under Declaration of Trust dated January 1, 2001”).
If the trustee is an organization – the person acting as the entity account manager must be a duly authorized employee of that organization who has the authority to act alone and the organization must be named specifically in the registration. (Ex: “First National Bank, Trustee under Agreement with William Jones dated January 1, 2001, Employer Identification Number 12-3456789").
If the legal name of your trust, as shown in your trust document, shows more than one trustee and the names are joined by the connector "AND" (e.g., John Doe and Sarah Jones, Trustees under Agreement with Jane Doe dated January 1, 2001) you will be required to provide a Summary of Trust (also known as Certificate of Trust or Memorandum of Trust) or the appropriate pages of the trust showing that either named co-trustee may act independently. Please send the following pages of the document:
The page showing the name and date of the trust.
The page(s) identifying the trustee(s). If more than one trustee is named and each can act independently, submit that portion of the trust.
The signature page(s).
Any amendments to the trust that may alter the information on the pages submitted or limit the authority of the trustee.
Mail the information to:

Treasury Retail Securities Services
PO Box 214
Minneapolis, MN 55480-0214

Plus one more thing:
IRS Name Control: When establishing an entity account, you must furnish a name control code provided by the IRS. A name control is a sequence of characters, generally the first four characters of a taxpayer's last name or the first four letters of a business name. The name control is used by the IRS to process information electronically reported to them. It is important that the combination of name control and Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) provided on electronically reported information match IRS´s record of name controls and TINS. For more information on name control, go to www.irs.gov and search ‘name control’.

It looks to me you can open trust entity account just to find treasury disallowing it because of missing info
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Re: purchasing bonds in rust

Post by Kevin M »

selfdirected wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:41 pm i spoke with treasurydirect and it is correct i can open entity account and use my own SSN. But i doubt it is a simple, https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/he ... rnMore.htm
<snip>
Interesting. I recently opened two trust accounts, and it was very easy. The registration for one breaks one of the rules, and the other one breaks two of the rules. No trust documentation has yet been requested, and the I bonds purchased for these accounts are in the accounts.

Maybe they will come after me at some point, and I will have to create new entity accounts that follow all the rules. I will report back if so.

Kevin
If I make a calculation error, #Cruncher probably will let me know.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by iluvzbeach »

Unless you’ve got a complex trust situation (i.e., something other than a revocable living trust), I think you’re overthinking this.

We were able to easily open a trust account with TD. It’s a trust DH & I share. It’s under his SSN and I’m the agent or whatever they call the person managing everything. It was super-easy to setup and we didn’t run into any issues.

Just make sure to follow the instructions on the TD site very carefully.
selfdirected
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by selfdirected »

i am guessing trust documents can be amended to comply with what td needs.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by John08 »

How should I decide whether to purchase $10,000 in I Bonds or invest in stock market index funds (VTSAX and VTIAX) in a taxable account? Does it basically come down to risk-tolerance and how it affects my overall asset allocation?

I'm maxing out all tax-advantaged accounts, have a large emergency fund, and am not sure when I'll need the $10,000. I'm 31 and just see it as medium to long term (5 to 10+ years) savings for future unknown expenses. I have extra cash and am not sure which is best.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by #Cruncher »

Austin704 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 7:20 pmI made the first $10k I bond purchase in November 2021 and another in January 2022. My current account value shows $20236 so I assume this is the November bond + interest through April 2022+ the January bond that has not yet compounded. The interest with 3 months withheld should be $178 but it's showing $236. :confused
Do the following after logging in to your TreasuryDirect account to see the values of your I Bonds separately. This will confirm BrokerageZelda's explanation in this post.
  • Select the "Current Holdings" tab.
  • At the bottom in the "Savings Bond" section, select the O radio button for "Series I Savings Bonds" and then click [Submit].
  • You'll see the "Current Value" of $10,176 for the Nov 2021 purchase & $10,060 for the Jan 2022 purchase.
HueyLD wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 7:43 pm10,240 is close to the correct amount of 10,232.
25*(1+9.62%)^(3/12)=25.58
25.58*400=10232.
The composite rate is compounded semi-annually. So the correct calculation is
25 * (1 + 9.62% / 2) ^ (3 / 6) = 25.59

A good case to see the effect of semi-annual compounding is the 3.30% Fixed Rate Purchased November 1998 which had the same 5.05% composite rate its first two six-month periods. After one year $25 grew to $26.28. With annual compounding it would have only grown to $26.26.
25.63 = 25.00 * (1 + 0.0505 / 2)
26.28 = 25.63 * (1 + 0.0505 / 2)
26.26 = 25.00 * (1 + 0.0505)
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by mediahound »

Question; when making the iBond purchase does it credit in Treasurydirect right away that day? Or does it transfer from your bank and then credit? I’m just wondering about the timing.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by strummer6969 »

mediahound wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:08 am Question; when making the iBond purchase does it credit in Treasurydirect right away that day? Or does it transfer from your bank and then credit? I’m just wondering about the timing.
It credited after transferring from the bank for me.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by mediahound »

strummer6969 wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:11 am
mediahound wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:08 am Question; when making the iBond purchase does it credit in Treasurydirect right away that day? Or does it transfer from your bank and then credit? I’m just wondering about the timing.
It credited after transferring from the bank for me.
Thanks.
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HueyLD
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by HueyLD »

mediahound wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:08 am Question; when making the iBond purchase does it credit in Treasurydirect right away that day? Or does it transfer from your bank and then credit? I’m just wondering about the timing.
If you schedule the purchase ahead of time, both debit and credit will show up on the same date.

As an example, you schedule a $10k purchase for 5/27/2022. You will see $10k debit to your linked bank account and savings bonds purchase in your TD account on the same date of 5/27/2022.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by mediahound »

HueyLD wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:34 am
mediahound wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:08 am Question; when making the iBond purchase does it credit in Treasurydirect right away that day? Or does it transfer from your bank and then credit? I’m just wondering about the timing.
If you schedule the purchase ahead of time, both debit and credit will show up on the same date.

As an example, you schedule a $10k purchase for 5/27/2022. You will see $10k debit to your linked bank account and savings bonds purchase in your TD account on the same date of 5/27/2022.
Thanks this is good to know. So this is the case even though it could typically take a couple days for the transfer from the bank?
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HueyLD
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by HueyLD »

After I discovered the beauty of pre-scheduling, there is no going back to ad hoc purchase.
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by Doom&Gloom »

mediahound wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:37 am
HueyLD wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:34 am
mediahound wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:08 am Question; when making the iBond purchase does it credit in Treasurydirect right away that day? Or does it transfer from your bank and then credit? I’m just wondering about the timing.
If you schedule the purchase ahead of time, both debit and credit will show up on the same date.

As an example, you schedule a $10k purchase for 5/27/2022. You will see $10k debit to your linked bank account and savings bonds purchase in your TD account on the same date of 5/27/2022.
Thanks this is good to know. So this is the case even though it could typically take a couple days for the transfer from the bank?
In my very limited experience there is no delay in transferring from the bank. Fastest I have ever seen. YMMV.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by SnowBog »

John08 wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 2:52 am How should I decide whether to purchase $10,000 in I Bonds or invest in stock market index funds (VTSAX and VTIAX) in a taxable account? Does it basically come down to risk-tolerance and how it affects my overall asset allocation?

I'm maxing out all tax-advantaged accounts, have a large emergency fund, and am not sure when I'll need the $10,000. I'm 31 and just see it as medium to long term (5 to 10+ years) savings for future unknown expenses. I have extra cash and am not sure which is best.
The way I think about this is this...

What is my investment horizon? If this is money I might need or want to spend in the next 10 years, what's my risk tolerance?

With I Bonds - I'm essentially guaranteed the inflation adjusted amount will still be available whenever I need it (or at least within the 30 year life of each bond).

With stocks - I'll most likely have a higher value over the next 10 years, but it isn't guaranteed (as we see with markets this year). If markets are being hammered when I need the money - am I OK with that?

What is my desired AA? Do I need more bonds/fixed income? Do I have space in my tax-deferred accounts to hold all the bonds I need?

Personally, we are mid-40's with an AA of 60/40 (we are - or were last year :annoyed - close enough to Financial Independence that we don't need to take more risk). I don't want to "starve" our tax-deferred of growth, so I keep a mix of stocks and bonds there. Which means to meet our AA, I need to buy bonds in a taxable account. I Bonds are a "taxable" investment, with the added benefit of allowing us to defer taxes for up to 30 years (or until sold). Plus their unique characteristics are something I value in my bond holdings.

Further, I have a secondary (or arguably the primary) purpose for my I Bonds - as well as EE Bonds - is to help create an income stream (floor) to help bridge the years between when we retire and when we start collecting social security and pensions. While it was written more specifically with the context of using EE Bonds to do so, you can read more about this idea in the EE Bond Manifesto - which talks about using EE Bonds (and I Bonds) as a DIY Annuity. viewtopic.php?t=358793
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by jeffyscott »

John08 wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 2:52 am How should I decide whether to purchase $10,000 in I Bonds or invest in stock market index funds (VTSAX and VTIAX) in a taxable account? Does it basically come down to risk-tolerance and how it affects my overall asset allocation?

I'm maxing out all tax-advantaged accounts, have a large emergency fund, and am not sure when I'll need the $10,000. I'm 31 and just see it as medium to long term (5 to 10+ years) savings for future unknown expenses. I have extra cash and am not sure which is best.
You don't have to change your asset allocation to buy I-bonds. You can offset the investment by an exchange in another account.

Since it is likely the best fixed income option for at least 15 months, if you want to add your cash to stocks you can simply buy $10K of I-bonds and then trade $10K of something in the fixed income category for stocks in the tax-advantaged account. If you want to add to fixed income, just buy the I-bonds. If you want some of both, then trade something less than $10K in the tax-advantaged account.

In 15 months you can decide whether or not to keep the I-bonds for longer or sell and add that money to your taxable account, again offsetting any asset allocation change from the I-bond transaction. If you keep the I-bonds at that point, they could become part of your emergency fund and you could redeploy ~$10K of the emergency fund money to stocks.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by Philly30 »

Mel Lindauer wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 9:31 pm
hoops777 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 7:27 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 6:22 pm
luxy111 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 4:49 pm Im sorry this is a very basic question...I purchased $10k of ibonds in April --- the balance is still showing as $10k...i guess because its applying the penalty for the first 3 months...

will this update in 4 monhts? (to these levels: https://eyebonds.info/ibonds/10000/ib_2022_04.html) thank you!
Yes, they always withhold the last three months' interest until you reach five years. So at month four, you'll see the first month's interest and it will continue like that.
So if you buy 10,000 today after 6 months it will only show about 10,240 ?

I didn't do any calculation, but after six months you'd show the first three months' worth of interest.
To get the $10,856 we would have to wait until July 2023 to withdraw?
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by FactualFran »

#Cruncher wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 4:31 pm Unfortunately your formula -- with a length of over 13,000 characters -- is too big for my version of Excel which can't handle formulas of more than 8,192 characters. So I took the approach of your formula but used some "helper" cells to reduce the formula's size to something Excel can handle -- about 4,300 characters.
A spreadsheet formula over 13,000 characters long, yikes!

However, this has influenced me to tidy up a spreadsheet that I put together to calculate the value of I-bonds. The spreadsheet now has rows like the following.

Code: Select all

Issued  FaceValue     AsOf   RateDate  MnthsOfInt   Value
2001-01  1,000.00   2022-05   2000-11      256	  3,384.00
The first three columns contain data. The remaining columns contain formulas of at most about 100 characters each. The formula for the Value column references cells in another region of the spreadsheet that calculates the value of a $25 unit (on which the Treasury bases calculations of I-bond interest) for each month for each I-bond issue, a very big intermediate result, part of which looks like the following.

Code: Select all

                RateDate:  1998-05  1998-11  1999-05  1999-11
         RelativeRow
1998-05   0                  25.00		
1998-06   1                  25.10		
1998-07   2                  25.19		
1998-08   3                  25.29		
1998-09   4                  25.39		
1998-10   5                  25.48		
1998-11   6                  25.58    25.00	
1998-12   7                  25.69    25.10	
1999-01   8                  25.80    25.21	
1999-02   9                  25.91    25.31	
1999-03  10                  26.02    25.42	
1999-04  11                  26.13    25.52	
1999-05  12                  26.24    25.63    25.00
1999-06  13                  26.35    25.74    25.10
1999-07  14                  26.46    25.84    25.21
1999-08  15                  26.58    25.95    25.31
1999-09  16                  26.69    26.06    25.42
1999-10  17                  26.80    26.17    25.52
1999-11  18                  26.92    26.28    25.63    25.00
The first column contains data. The second column contains 0 in the first row of data and a formula in the later rows that adds 1 to the previous rows. The cells in the other columns and rows contain a formula about 160 characters long. That formula references a cell in another region of the spreadsheet that calculates the composite rate for each rate period for each I-bond issue, a big intermediate result, part of which looks like the following.

Code: Select all

                RateDate:  1998-05  1998-11  1999-05  1999-11
		FixedRate:   3.40%    3.30%    3.30%    3.40%
		Maturity:  2028-05  2028-11  2029-05  2029-11
      2 Mo Prior   CPI-U				
Rate     CPI-U	  Change				
Date
1997-11  161.2					
1998-05  162.2     0.62%     4.66%			
1998-11  163.6     0.86%     5.15%    5.05%		
1999-05  165.0     0.86%     5.15%    5.05%    5.05%	
1999-11  167.9     1.76%     6.98%    6.88%    6.88%    6.98%
The first two columns and the first two rows contain data. The third row contains an obvious short formula. The third column contains a short formula that references the CPI-U values of adjacent rate dates. The remaining columns contain a formula that references the CPI-U Change column the FixedRate row.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by Mudpuppy »

John08 wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 2:52 am How should I decide whether to purchase $10,000 in I Bonds or invest in stock market index funds (VTSAX and VTIAX) in a taxable account? Does it basically come down to risk-tolerance and how it affects my overall asset allocation?

I'm maxing out all tax-advantaged accounts, have a large emergency fund, and am not sure when I'll need the $10,000. I'm 31 and just see it as medium to long term (5 to 10+ years) savings for future unknown expenses. I have extra cash and am not sure which is best.
I personally use I Bonds primarily as the second tier of my emergency fund, since I know I won't lose purchasing power from how I've "parked" that money. My first tier is a high yield savings account, just to have faster access to the first tier if the money is needed ASAP. However, I've been converting the first tier over to I Bonds every year, since most "quick" access needs now accept credit cards and there would be plenty of time to cash in I Bonds to pay off the cards at the next billing cycle.

I also have a more aggressive asset allocation in my retirement accounts, since I will have a CalPERS pension and I have the I Bonds. The pension is the larger factor in that decision, but the I Bonds provide additional peace of mind to weather markets like this year's market.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by aj76er »

#Cruncher wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 4:31 pm
anita bahth wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 3:30 pm... did you ever look at the single-cell calculation that I put together ...
https://ethercalc.net/f832xkcxtm37
I know that your question wasn't directed to me. But I have studied your spreadsheet. First off, congratulations on solving the problem posed by acegolfer:
acegolfer wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 5:02 pmHas anyone figured out an Excel formula (not using helper cells) to accurately calculate the balance (it's ok to be before 3-mo penalty)?
You did good work. I particularly like a couple of things in your coding:
  • You replace the composite rate formula
    comp rate = fixed rate + (2 X inflation rate) + (fixed rate X inflation rate) with the equivalent
    comp rate = (2 + fixed rate) * (1 + inflation rate) - 2
    Your version only requires looking up the inflation rate once.
  • Your calculation of the exponent in the POWER function neatly handles both running beyond the last row of the rate table and final periods of less than six months.
Unfortunately your formula -- with a length of over 13,000 characters -- is too big for my version of Excel which can't handle formulas of more than 8,192 characters. So I took the approach of your formula but used some "helper" cells to reduce the formula's size to something Excel can handle -- about 4,300 characters. I found a couple of other problems using your formula in Excel:
  • Excel doesn't like range designations like "G1:G", "G2:G" etc. in the INDEX function. I didn't use this type of designation in my version of your formula.
  • The ROUND function rounds incorrectly for a tiny number of composite rates. This happens with both your ethercalc formula and my Excel formula. But I was able to come up with a kluge workaround for my formula. See footnote. [1])
I tested my Excel formula on several I Bonds. Here are the results for six of them. Each of the "Grows To" values are calculated in a single cell using my variant of your formula.

Code: Select all

  Face              Valuation  Fixed    Grows
  Value  Purchased     Date     Rate      To
 ------  ---------  ---------  -----   ------
 10,000   9/1/1998  11/1/2022   3.40%  39,468 
 10,000  11/1/1998  11/1/2022   3.30%  39,396 
 10,000   4/1/2004  11/1/2022   1.10%  18,868 
 10,000   5/1/2004  11/1/2022   1.00%  19,196 [1]
 10,000   4/1/2020  11/1/2022   0.20%  10,936 
 10,000   5/1/2020  11/1/2022   0.00%  11,196
Follow these steps if you wish to build my spreadsheet:
  • Select All, Copy, and Paste [2] the following at cell A1 of a blank Excel sheet.

    Code: Select all

    Rates Effective	Fixed Rate	Inflat Rate	Face value	Purchased	Value Date	Fixed Rate	First Row	Fixed Rate + 2	Last Date Valid	Months Elapsed	Grows To
    36039	0.034	0.0062	10000	36039	44866	=INDEX(B:B,H2,1)	=2+INT((12*(YEAR($E2)-1998)+MONTH($E2)-5)/6)	=2+INDEX(B:B,H2,1)+0.00000001	=DATE(YEAR(MAX(A:A)),MONTH(MAX(A:A))+6+MOD(MONTH(E2)+1,6),1)	=12*(YEAR(MIN(F2,J2))-YEAR(E2))+MONTH(MIN(F2,J2))-MONTH(E2)	=(D2/25)*ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(25*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+1,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-6))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+2,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-12))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+3,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-18))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+4,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-24))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+5,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-30))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+6,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-36))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+7,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-42))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+8,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-48))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+9,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-54))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+10,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-60))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+11,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-66))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+12,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-72))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+13,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-78))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+14,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-84))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+15,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-90))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+16,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-96))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+17,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-102))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+18,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-108))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+19,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-114))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+20,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-120))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+21,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-126))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+22,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-132))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+23,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-138))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+24,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-144))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+25,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-150))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+26,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-156))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+27,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-162))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+28,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-168))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+29,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-174))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+30,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-180))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+31,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-186))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+32,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-192))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+33,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-198))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+34,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-204))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+35,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-210))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+36,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-216))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+37,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-222))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+38,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-228))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+39,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-234))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+40,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-240))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+41,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-246))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+42,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-252))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+43,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-258))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+44,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-264))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+45,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-270))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+46,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-276))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+47,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-282))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+48,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-288))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+49,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-294))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+50,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-300))/6),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+51,1))-2,4))/2)^(MAX(0,MIN(6,K2-306))/6),2)
    36100	0.033	0.0086	10000	36100	44866
    36281	0.033	0.0086	10000	38078	44866
    36465	0.034	0.0176	10000	38108	44866
    36647	0.036	0.0191	10000	43922	44866
    36831	0.034	0.0152	10000	43952	44866
    37012	0.03	0.0144
    37196	0.02	0.0119
    37377	0.02	0.0028
    37561	0.016	0.0123
    37742	0.011	0.0177
    37926	0.011	0.0054
    38108	0.01	0.0119
    38292	0.01	0.0133
    38473	0.012	0.0179
    38657	0.01	0.0285
    38838	0.014	0.005
    39022	0.014	0.0155
    39203	0.013	0.0121
    39387	0.012	0.0153
    39569	0	0.0242
    39753	0.007	0.0246
    39934	0.001	-0.0278
    40118	0.003	0.0153
    40299	0.002	0.0077
    40483	0	0.0037
    40664	0	0.023
    40848	0	0.0153
    41030	0	0.011
    41214	0	0.0088
    41395	0	0.0059
    41579	0.002	0.0059
    41760	0.001	0.0092
    41944	0	0.0074
    42125	0	-0.008
    42309	0.001	0.0077
    42491	0.001	0.0008
    42675	0	0.0138
    42856	0	0.0098
    43040	0.001	0.0124
    43221	0.003	0.0111
    43405	0.005	0.0116
    43586	0.005	0.007
    43770	0.002	0.0101
    43952	0	0.0053
    44136	0	0.0084
    44317	0	0.0177
    44501	0	0.0356
    44682	0	0.0481
  • Copy cells G2:L2 down to row 7.
  • Format for readability. Columns A, E, F, & J are dates. Columns B, C, & G are percents.
  • Modify the "Face Value", "Purchased", and "Valuation Date" cells as desired. If you have more than six I Bonds, copy the formulas in columns G:L down.
  • If you wish, hide columns H:K which are just "helper" cells used to reduce the size of the big formula in column L.
  1. Noticed rounding error (both in Excel and in ethercalc) when unrounded composite rate is exactly "5" in the fifth decimal place. E.g., 0.02005. This happened for the May 2004 1% fixed rate bond when applying the 0.5% inflation rate May 2006. Excel ROUND was rounding down to 2.00% while the correct value is 2.01%. A klugey solution (I hope) was to add a very small number, 1E-8, to the values in the "Fixed Rate + 2" column.
  2. If you have trouble pasting, try "Paste Special" and "Text".
Edit 5/6/2022 to add slimmer version of formula. I eliminated raising 1 + composite rate to a power except for the partial six-month period that may follow all the full periods. This reduced the size of the formula about 600 characters to about 3,700. Also fixed "First Row" formula so inserting rows above the rate table doesn't break the sheet.

Follow these steps if you wish to build the revised spreadsheet:
  • Select All, Copy, and Paste [2] the following at cell A1 of a blank Excel sheet.

    Code: Select all

    Rates Effective	Fixed Rate	Inflat Rate	Face value	Purchased	Value Date	Fixed Rate	First Row	Fixed Rate + 2	Last Date Valid	Full Periods	Extra Months	Grows To
    36039	0.034	0.0062	10000	36039	44866	=INDEX(B:B,H2,1)	=ROW(B$2)+INT((12*(YEAR($E2)-1998)+MONTH($E2)-5)/6)	=2+INDEX(B:B,H2,1)+0.00000001	=DATE(YEAR(MAX(A:A)),MONTH(MAX(A:A))+6+MOD(MONTH(E2)+1,6),1)	=INT((12*(YEAR(MIN(F2,J2))-YEAR(E2))+MONTH(MIN(F2,J2))-MONTH(E2))/6)	=12*(YEAR(MIN(F2,J2))-YEAR(E2))+MONTH(MIN(F2,J2))-MONTH(E2) - 6 * K2	=(D2/25)*ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(ROUND(25*IF(K2<1,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<2,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+1,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<3,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+2,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<4,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+3,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<5,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+4,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<6,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+5,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<7,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+6,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<8,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+7,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<9,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+8,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<10,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+9,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<11,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+10,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<12,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+11,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<13,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+12,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<14,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+13,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<15,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+14,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<16,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+15,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<17,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+16,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<18,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+17,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<19,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+18,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<20,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+19,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<21,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+20,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<22,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+21,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<23,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+22,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<24,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+23,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<25,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+24,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<26,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+25,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<27,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+26,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<28,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+27,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<29,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+28,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<30,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+29,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<31,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+30,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<32,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+31,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<33,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+32,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<34,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+33,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<35,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+34,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<36,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+35,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<37,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+36,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<38,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+37,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<39,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+38,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<40,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+39,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<41,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+40,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<42,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+41,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<43,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+42,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<44,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+43,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<45,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+44,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<46,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+45,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<47,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+46,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<48,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+47,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<49,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+48,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<50,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+49,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*IF(K2<51,1,(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+50,1))-2,4))/2)),2)*(1+MAX(0,ROUND(I2*(1+INDEX(C:C,H2+K2,1))-2,4))/2)^(L2/6),2)
    36100	0.033	0.0086	10000	36100	44866
    36281	0.033	0.0086	10000	38078	44866
    36465	0.034	0.0176	10000	38108	44866
    36647	0.036	0.0191	10000	43922	44866
    36831	0.034	0.0152	10000	43952	44866
    37012	0.03	0.0144
    37196	0.02	0.0119
    37377	0.02	0.0028
    37561	0.016	0.0123
    37742	0.011	0.0177
    37926	0.011	0.0054
    38108	0.01	0.0119
    38292	0.01	0.0133
    38473	0.012	0.0179
    38657	0.01	0.0285
    38838	0.014	0.005
    39022	0.014	0.0155
    39203	0.013	0.0121
    39387	0.012	0.0153
    39569	0	0.0242
    39753	0.007	0.0246
    39934	0.001	-0.0278
    40118	0.003	0.0153
    40299	0.002	0.0077
    40483	0	0.0037
    40664	0	0.023
    40848	0	0.0153
    41030	0	0.011
    41214	0	0.0088
    41395	0	0.0059
    41579	0.002	0.0059
    41760	0.001	0.0092
    41944	0	0.0074
    42125	0	-0.008
    42309	0.001	0.0077
    42491	0.001	0.0008
    42675	0	0.0138
    42856	0	0.0098
    43040	0.001	0.0124
    43221	0.003	0.0111
    43405	0.005	0.0116
    43586	0.005	0.007
    43770	0.002	0.0101
    43952	0	0.0053
    44136	0	0.0084
    44317	0	0.0177
    44501	0	0.0356
    44682	0	0.0481
  • Copy cells G2:M2 down to row 7.
  • Format for readability. Columns A, E, F, & J are dates. Columns B, C, & G are percents.
  • Modify the "Face Value", "Purchased", and "Valuation Date" cells as desired. If you have more than six I Bonds, copy the formulas in columns G:M down.
  • If you wish, hide columns H:L which are just "helper" cells used to reduce the size of the big formula in column M.
Just wanted to say “thank you” for everyone’s work on this! I was able to take the formulas from #Cruncher’s OneCell tab and incorporate them into my own portfolio tracking spreadsheet. Now I don’t have to log into TD to get updated balances. This saves me a bit of time as we now have 4 accounts (2 individual + 2 trust).
"Buy-and-hold, long-term, all-market-index strategies, implemented at rock-bottom cost, are the surest of all routes to the accumulation of wealth" - John C. Bogle
MrWasabi65
Posts: 354
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:42 pm

Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by MrWasabi65 »

Just received in the mail yesterday, my paper I Bonds resulting from my income tax refund.

They're dated 04/2022 - so can I assume this means they're currently earning 7.12%, then about six months from now, that will adjust to 9.62% for six months...and then so on and so forth until I sell?

My first experience with the paper version. Thanks
graspau
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:57 pm

Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by graspau »

MrWasabi65 wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 12:42 pm Just received in the mail yesterday, my paper I Bonds resulting from my income tax refund.

They're dated 04/2022 - so can I assume this means they're currently earning 7.12%, then about six months from now, that will adjust to 9.62% for six months...and then so on and so forth until I sell?

My first experience with the paper version. Thanks
I like to use https://eyebonds.info/ibonds/index.html to see current value and future up until next rate change then they fill the next 6 months in..they do not subtract the 3 mos penalty if you cash in before 5 years. For example i got $5k tax refund with issue date 2/2022 and their value will be $5428 Feb 2023.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by HerrRogan »

I have major, major iBond Envy!

I've been overpaying with extension 4868 since 2012 to get the 5k paper bonds. Always, get the 50, 200, 500, 1000 collection. Twice have had to go thru the absurd struggle of paperwork for missing a $50 bond. What a major pita.

Never have received one 5k bond. Did not even know they existed. Really would like one for my collection.....Oh, well. There's always next year. Congrats to the lucky that received one!
epoche wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 1:27 pm Just adding a data point. I did the extend, then file route for paper I-bonds again.

Taxes filed on April 7, refund above $5000 direct deposited on April 27, paper I-bond with issue date 4-2022 received on May 2.
Treasury wised up this year and sent only a single $5000 denomination I-bond.
Glad to see that - last year I got the 12 separate envelopes over about 2 weeks, and was sweating it out waiting on one of the $1000 denominations.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by Mel Lindauer »

HerrRogan wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 3:53 pm I have major, major iBond Envy!

I've been overpaying with extension 4868 since 2012 to get the 5k paper bonds. Always, get the 50, 200, 500, 1000 collection. Twice have had to go thru the absurd struggle of paperwork for missing a $50 bond. What a major pita.

Never have received one 5k bond. Did not even know they existed. Really would like one for my collection.....Oh, well. There's always next year. Congrats to the lucky that received one!
epoche wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 1:27 pm Just adding a data point. I did the extend, then file route for paper I-bonds again.

Taxes filed on April 7, refund above $5000 direct deposited on April 27, paper I-bond with issue date 4-2022 received on May 2.
Treasury wised up this year and sent only a single $5000 denomination I-bond.
Glad to see that - last year I got the 12 separate envelopes over about 2 weeks, and was sweating it out waiting on one of the $1000 denominations.
There is a potential advantage to having various denomination Savings Bonds as opposed to one $5k bond. If you need 50, 100, 500 or 1000 dollars, you don't need to redeem a $5k bond to get it and then owe tax on the 5k bond interest, and then have to figure out where to invest the balance in today's low rate environment.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by ResearchMed »

Mel Lindauer wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 4:47 pm
HerrRogan wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 3:53 pm I have major, major iBond Envy!

I've been overpaying with extension 4868 since 2012 to get the 5k paper bonds. Always, get the 50, 200, 500, 1000 collection. Twice have had to go thru the absurd struggle of paperwork for missing a $50 bond. What a major pita.

Never have received one 5k bond. Did not even know they existed. Really would like one for my collection.....Oh, well. There's always next year. Congrats to the lucky that received one!
epoche wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 1:27 pm Just adding a data point. I did the extend, then file route for paper I-bonds again.

Taxes filed on April 7, refund above $5000 direct deposited on April 27, paper I-bond with issue date 4-2022 received on May 2.
Treasury wised up this year and sent only a single $5000 denomination I-bond.
Glad to see that - last year I got the 12 separate envelopes over about 2 weeks, and was sweating it out waiting on one of the $1000 denominations.
There is a potential advantage to having various denomination Savings Bonds as opposed to one $5k bond. If you need 50, 100, 500 or 1000 dollars, you don't need to redeem a $5k bond to get it and then owe tax on the 5k bond interest, and then have to figure out where to invest the balance in today's low rate environment.
I thought others here were saying that one could partially edeem I Bonds in less than total amount. Is that not correct?

RM
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by BrokerageZelda »

ResearchMed wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 5:18 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 4:47 pm
HerrRogan wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 3:53 pm I have major, major iBond Envy!

I've been overpaying with extension 4868 since 2012 to get the 5k paper bonds. Always, get the 50, 200, 500, 1000 collection. Twice have had to go thru the absurd struggle of paperwork for missing a $50 bond. What a major pita.

Never have received one 5k bond. Did not even know they existed. Really would like one for my collection.....Oh, well. There's always next year. Congrats to the lucky that received one!
epoche wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 1:27 pm Just adding a data point. I did the extend, then file route for paper I-bonds again.

Taxes filed on April 7, refund above $5000 direct deposited on April 27, paper I-bond with issue date 4-2022 received on May 2.
Treasury wised up this year and sent only a single $5000 denomination I-bond.
Glad to see that - last year I got the 12 separate envelopes over about 2 weeks, and was sweating it out waiting on one of the $1000 denominations.
There is a potential advantage to having various denomination Savings Bonds as opposed to one $5k bond. If you need 50, 100, 500 or 1000 dollars, you don't need to redeem a $5k bond to get it and then owe tax on the 5k bond interest, and then have to figure out where to invest the balance in today's low rate environment.
I thought others here were saying that one could partially edeem I Bonds in less than total amount. Is that not correct?

RM
You can partially redeem electronic I Bonds on TreasuryDirect. Paper I Bonds must be redeemed in full at the listed face value; they cannot be broken unless you send them in to convert them to electronic bonds.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by ResearchMed »

BrokerageZelda wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 5:31 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 5:18 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 4:47 pm
HerrRogan wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 3:53 pm I have major, major iBond Envy!

I've been overpaying with extension 4868 since 2012 to get the 5k paper bonds. Always, get the 50, 200, 500, 1000 collection. Twice have had to go thru the absurd struggle of paperwork for missing a $50 bond. What a major pita.

Never have received one 5k bond. Did not even know they existed. Really would like one for my collection.....Oh, well. There's always next year. Congrats to the lucky that received one!
epoche wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 1:27 pm Just adding a data point. I did the extend, then file route for paper I-bonds again.

Taxes filed on April 7, refund above $5000 direct deposited on April 27, paper I-bond with issue date 4-2022 received on May 2.
Treasury wised up this year and sent only a single $5000 denomination I-bond.
Glad to see that - last year I got the 12 separate envelopes over about 2 weeks, and was sweating it out waiting on one of the $1000 denominations.
There is a potential advantage to having various denomination Savings Bonds as opposed to one $5k bond. If you need 50, 100, 500 or 1000 dollars, you don't need to redeem a $5k bond to get it and then owe tax on the 5k bond interest, and then have to figure out where to invest the balance in today's low rate environment.
I thought others here were saying that one could partially edeem I Bonds in less than total amount. Is that not correct?

RM
You can partially redeem electronic I Bonds on TreasuryDirect. Paper I Bonds must be redeemed in full at the listed face value; they cannot be broken unless you send them in to convert them to electronic bonds.
Thanks!

RM
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How to Buy I Bonds and Gift in a future Year?

Post by Kookaburra »

[Thread merged into here --admin LadyGeek]

Could someone please walk me through mechanics of how this works? Does interest begin accruing right away (or after the first 3 months), or only once gifted in a year? Does buying now as a gift also start the 1-year “lockup period”clock right away, or does wait until it’s formally gifted?

And how does one initiate/specify this transaction on Treasury Direct if buying as a gift for spouse?


Thanks in advance
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Re: How to Buy I Bonds and Gift in a future Year?

Post by Silk McCue »

We have a mega thread in this topic. A search of gift box is effective for research.

viewtopic.php?t=346091&hilit=IBond+megathread

Inside one of the posts is this link which addresses your questions.

https://thefinancebuff.com/buy-i-bonds-as-gift.html

Cheers
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by Kevin M »

Mel Lindauer wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 4:47 pm There is a potential advantage to having various denomination Savings Bonds as opposed to one $5k bond. If you need 50, 100, 500 or 1000 dollars, you don't need to redeem a $5k bond to get it and then owe tax on the 5k bond interest, and then have to figure out where to invest the balance in today's low rate environment.
The downside is if you want to redeem the full amount, it's a PITA to sign all the paper I bonds (I've done it a couple of times, and would never do it again if I had a choice).
If I make a calculation error, #Cruncher probably will let me know.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by LadyGeek »

I merged Kookaburra's thread into the ongoing discussion.

(Thanks to the member who reported the post and provided a link to this thread.)
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by Mel Lindauer »

ResearchMed wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 5:32 pm
BrokerageZelda wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 5:31 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 5:18 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 4:47 pm
HerrRogan wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 3:53 pm I have major, major iBond Envy!

I've been overpaying with extension 4868 since 2012 to get the 5k paper bonds. Always, get the 50, 200, 500, 1000 collection. Twice have had to go thru the absurd struggle of paperwork for missing a $50 bond. What a major pita.

Never have received one 5k bond. Did not even know they existed. Really would like one for my collection.....Oh, well. There's always next year. Congrats to the lucky that received one!

There is a potential advantage to having various denomination Savings Bonds as opposed to one $5k bond. If you need 50, 100, 500 or 1000 dollars, you don't need to redeem a $5k bond to get it and then owe tax on the 5k bond interest, and then have to figure out where to invest the balance in today's low rate environment.
I thought others here were saying that one could partially edeem I Bonds in less than total amount. Is that not correct?

RM
You can partially redeem electronic I Bonds on TreasuryDirect. Paper I Bonds must be redeemed in full at the listed face value; they cannot be broken unless you send them in to convert them to electronic bonds.
Thanks!

RM
Yes, as ResearchMed correctly pointed out, I was responding to posts about paper I Bonds gotten via the tax-refund option. In the earlier days, folks were reporting/complaining about getting dozen of various denominations bonds via their tax refund, but there have been some recent reports of folks getting a single $5k I Bond.

I was simply pointing out that there were, indeed, some possible advantages to having multiple value paper I Bonds.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by mediahound »

Question: Why don't my older iBonds (some that have a higher than zero fixed rate), not earn as much as today's 9.62%?

Don't all of them get today's inflation rate?
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by BrokerageZelda »

mediahound wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 11:29 am Question: Why don't my older iBonds (some that have a higher than zero fixed rate), not earn as much as today's 9.62%?

Don't all of them get today's inflation rate?
I Bonds don't all change rates at the same time, the six month rate calendar is shifted based on the month of purchase.

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/I_savin ... ings_rates

See the "New Rate Takes Effect" column in that section to see when each bond will change interest rates. You will always get a full six months of every rate; the shifting ensures that even if you buy in October 2022, one month before the next rate is revealed, you still get the full six months of 9.62% interest.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by mediahound »

BrokerageZelda wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 11:44 am
mediahound wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 11:29 am Question: Why don't my older iBonds (some that have a higher than zero fixed rate), not earn as much as today's 9.62%?

Don't all of them get today's inflation rate?
I Bonds don't all change rates at the same time, the six month rate calendar is shifted based on the month of purchase.

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/I_savin ... ings_rates

See the "New Rate Takes Effect" column in that section to see when each bond will change interest rates. You will always get a full six months of every rate; the shifting ensures that even if you buy in October 2022, one month before the next rate is revealed, you still get the full six months of 9.62% interest.
Thanks, so the rate is based on whatever month they were originally purchased, even if it's for example 10 years ago?
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by BrokerageZelda »

mediahound wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 11:48 am
BrokerageZelda wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 11:44 am
mediahound wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 11:29 am Question: Why don't my older iBonds (some that have a higher than zero fixed rate), not earn as much as today's 9.62%?

Don't all of them get today's inflation rate?
I Bonds don't all change rates at the same time, the six month rate calendar is shifted based on the month of purchase.

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/I_savin ... ings_rates

See the "New Rate Takes Effect" column in that section to see when each bond will change interest rates. You will always get a full six months of every rate; the shifting ensures that even if you buy in October 2022, one month before the next rate is revealed, you still get the full six months of 9.62% interest.
Thanks, so the rate is based on whatever month they were originally purchased, even if it's for example 10 years ago?
That's right, the rate change date offset is fixed for the life of the bond.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by mediahound »

BrokerageZelda wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 11:49 am That's right, the rate change date offset is fixed for the life of the bond.
Is there any consensus for which month of the year is the best month to purchase iBonds?
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by BrokerageZelda »

mediahound wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 11:51 am
BrokerageZelda wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 11:49 am That's right, the rate change date offset is fixed for the life of the bond.
Is there any consensus for which month of the year is the best month to purchase iBonds?
I can only speak for myself, but in general I would buy as soon as I have the money to spare. The single biggest inconvenience of I Bonds is the one-year lockup before you are allowed to redeem, and buying sooner means that the one-year lockup ends sooner as well.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by mediahound »

BrokerageZelda wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 11:59 am
I can only speak for myself, but in general I would buy as soon as I have the money to spare. The single biggest inconvenience of I Bonds is the one-year lockup before you are allowed to redeem, and buying sooner means that the one-year lockup ends sooner as well.
Makes sense. I suppose alternatively buying near the end of the current 6-months (and end of the month) can make sense since you are likely to have some prediction to what the next likely rate will be. And, you get the full month's interest even if you buy at the end of the month. IE, buying at the end of April, and/or end of October.
Last edited by mediahound on Mon May 09, 2022 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by Mel Lindauer »

BrokerageZelda wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 11:59 am
mediahound wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 11:51 am
BrokerageZelda wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 11:49 am That's right, the rate change date offset is fixed for the life of the bond.
Is there any consensus for which month of the year is the best month to purchase iBonds?
I can only speak for myself, but in general I would buy as soon as I have the money to spare. The single biggest inconvenience of I Bonds is the one-year lockup before you are allowed to redeem, and buying sooner means that the one-year lockup ends sooner as well.
Agree with BrokerageZelda. Buy whenever you have the funds available that you can tie up for at least one year.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by FactualFran »

mediahound wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 11:48 am Thanks, so the rate is based on whatever month they were originally purchased, even if it's for example 10 years ago?
Yes. As of May 2022, I-bonds that were issued in December 2001 or later, but not in May or November, have a composite rate that is less than the annual inflation adjustment of 9.62% that was announced in May 2022.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by mediahound »

FactualFran wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 12:15 pm Yes. As of May 2022, I-bonds that were issued in December 2001 or later, but not in May or November, have a composite rate that is less than the annual inflation adjustment of 9.62% that was announced in May 2022.
Along these lines, does it ever makes sense to sell old iBonds, and then just re-buy versus continue to hold? What is the best way to factor if that would make sense?
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by BrokerageZelda »

mediahound wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 12:22 pm
FactualFran wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 12:15 pm Yes. As of May 2022, I-bonds that were issued in December 2001 or later, but not in May or November, have a composite rate that is less than the annual inflation adjustment of 9.62% that was announced in May 2022.
Along these lines, does it ever makes sense to sell old iBonds, and then just re-buy versus continue to hold? What is the best way to factor if that would make sense?
Some might justify it if the fixed rate component on new I Bonds goes up sometime in the future, but keep in mind that the yearly purchase limits aren't indexed to inflation, so if you sell out of old I Bonds and re-buy, you may not be able to get all the resulting money back into the I Bond system that year, which can degrade the benefit of a higher fixed rate.

(You could always do a partial redemption for $10,000 or less, rebuy with that, and leave the remainder inside the old I Bond to continue growing.)
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by Da5id »

mediahound wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 12:22 pm
FactualFran wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 12:15 pm Yes. As of May 2022, I-bonds that were issued in December 2001 or later, but not in May or November, have a composite rate that is less than the annual inflation adjustment of 9.62% that was announced in May 2022.
Along these lines, does it ever makes sense to sell old iBonds, and then just re-buy versus continue to hold? What is the best way to factor if that would make sense?
When you sell an old I-bond you pay the taxes due on all its interest. Maybe if you have a low income year and have higher income years in the future that makes sense.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by user9532 »

mediahound wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 12:22 pm
FactualFran wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 12:15 pm Yes. As of May 2022, I-bonds that were issued in December 2001 or later, but not in May or November, have a composite rate that is less than the annual inflation adjustment of 9.62% that was announced in May 2022.
Along these lines, does it ever makes sense to sell old iBonds, and then just re-buy versus continue to hold? What is the best way to factor if that would make sense?
Before you sell your I bond, you can see whether it has a real return. I have chart that shows the real return on all I bonds older than 5 years (as of April 22).

You can see it here. Scroll down and look for the horizontal bar chart.

https://eworkpaper.com/
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

Post by FoundingFather »

mediahound wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 12:22 pm
FactualFran wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 12:15 pm Yes. As of May 2022, I-bonds that were issued in December 2001 or later, but not in May or November, have a composite rate that is less than the annual inflation adjustment of 9.62% that was announced in May 2022.
Along these lines, does it ever makes sense to sell old iBonds, and then just re-buy versus continue to hold? What is the best way to factor if that would make sense?
If the new fixed rate is much better than the fixed rate of I Bonds you are holding, then yes, this might be a great idea!

Though this may be obvious to many, just to be explicit and clear: the main way to think about this is to determine how much the tax hit and 3 month interest penalty (if applicable by holdong held the bond for <5 years) will be for cashing out the I Bond, then compare the difference in the fixed rate between the old and new I bond. You will come come up with a duration that the new I Bond would need to be held to produce a net benefit. If your investing duration is longer than this, then yes, exchanging an old I Bond for a new one would be wise.

Note that if you have qualified educational expenses and your income is below the threshold, you could cash out your I Bond, pay for educational expenses tax free, then buy the new I Bond. Furthermore, if you have held the I bond for >5 years and can use the money for educational expenses, then you could reduce the cost of switching I Bonds to $0. In this case, only the liquidity and possibility of paying a 3 month interest penalty in the future would need to be considered.

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