Tales from this insane real estate market [Home sales]

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regularguy455
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by regularguy455 »

guyfromct wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:07 am
Wanderingwheelz wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:00 pm
HomerJ wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:36 pm
newyorker wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:21 pm Dont want to sound pessimistic but RE price will come down. Rate is super high at 5 percent now and it will only go higher.
I have to somewhat agree with this. The higher the interest rate, the higher the monthly payments, and the less people who will be able to afford the expensive houses.

Now, it may not mean prices will come down... But that is pressure downwards... Less people bidding will change things on the high end.
Isn’t the consensus from analysis that 5.75% to 6.25% is where real problems begin to show up?
I’m not sure there is a consensus. There’s two pieces that make using the GFC as an analog more difficult. First, the mortgages are different, ARMs are much rarer and there’s no negative amortization loans. Underwriting was more stringent too. Second, there’s a lot fewer homes. Pre-GFC there was a massive glut, now it’s the other way with too few homes.

As rates rise I think the biggest impact will be on new purchases. The average American is thinking I can spend $2,000 a month as opposed to I can buy a $300,000 home. If $2,000 buys $400,000 or $250,000 on a 30 year mortgage that’s the house they’ll buy. Home purchases are predicated on monthly cost and cash flow as opposed to asset price. I think we will see some variant of sticky wages and prices, where even as rates rise sellers would rather sit than take a perceived hit.
This line of thinking makes sense to me. I think rates rising means we will see fewer homes for sale. People will pay more for less. Probably an expansion of home renovations by people who don’t want to/can’t move.
Wanderingwheelz
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by Wanderingwheelz »

regularguy455 wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:13 am
guyfromct wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:07 am
Wanderingwheelz wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:00 pm
HomerJ wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:36 pm
newyorker wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:21 pm Dont want to sound pessimistic but RE price will come down. Rate is super high at 5 percent now and it will only go higher.
I have to somewhat agree with this. The higher the interest rate, the higher the monthly payments, and the less people who will be able to afford the expensive houses.

Now, it may not mean prices will come down... But that is pressure downwards... Less people bidding will change things on the high end.
Isn’t the consensus from analysis that 5.75% to 6.25% is where real problems begin to show up?
I’m not sure there is a consensus. There’s two pieces that make using the GFC as an analog more difficult. First, the mortgages are different, ARMs are much rarer and there’s no negative amortization loans. Underwriting was more stringent too. Second, there’s a lot fewer homes. Pre-GFC there was a massive glut, now it’s the other way with too few homes.

As rates rise I think the biggest impact will be on new purchases. The average American is thinking I can spend $2,000 a month as opposed to I can buy a $300,000 home. If $2,000 buys $400,000 or $250,000 on a 30 year mortgage that’s the house they’ll buy. Home purchases are predicated on monthly cost and cash flow as opposed to asset price. I think we will see some variant of sticky wages and prices, where even as rates rise sellers would rather sit than take a perceived hit.
This line of thinking makes sense to me. I think rates rising means we will see fewer homes for sale. People will pay more for less. Probably an expansion of home renovations by people who don’t want to/can’t move.
This is probably worth reading if you enjoy trying to predict things like housing supply and prices.

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... 005383/en/
Being wrong compounds forever.
fresh_boglehead
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by fresh_boglehead »

SwampDonkey wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:38 am We closed on our home last month and our approach was a bit unconventioanl.

I posted on several local social media sites (mostly FB groups) of who we were and what type of home we were looking for. I asked if anyone was considering selling their home to reach out to us as we may be interested in buying their home before they go through the hassle of preparing to list it. I received well over 20 replies - about 1/4 of them were houses we would have considered putting an offer on.

The key points in my posts:

- Fully qualified w/ financing and able to put $100k+ as down payment; $10k as earnest money.
- Can close as quickly as the sellers wanted to.
- We did not have a realtor so they could save on realtor fees.
- Willing to waive inspection findings if less than $500 per finding or total findings were less than $5k estimated repairs. I emphasized the home inspection was not to nickel and dime the owners - we just wanted to make sure the major systems of the home were not in need of replacement.
- Willing to "lease-back" for up to five months.

The house we closed on is perfect for our family; it is in the location we desired and we settled on a great price (despite the craziness of the market). When we closed, the home was $60k below the "zesstimate" (and the other realtor website estimates) and it appraised for $30k over closing price.

The seller was incentivized to sell to us as they saved $40-50k in realtor fees, did zero effort to prep the home for sale (they have lots of kids, pets, dual-working spouses ----- the family was busy....), and they don't have to stress about aligning the sale of their home to when their next home will be ready.

The closing process went extremely smooth and the seller and I maintained great comms throughout. 10/10 would do it again.
We're now 0/3 as of last night - usually off by 10-20k from the highest bid. Just might have to try this. Sent you a DM.
letsgodenver
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by letsgodenver »

letsgodenver wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:37 am We've finally taken the plunge into the insane real estate market in the Denver metro area. Home listed for $895k, we offered up to $945k, waived inspection items under $2k, except health and safety, covered appraisal gap of $50k. Lost out... for a week, until we learned that the original buyer backed out. They had offered $1.037M and then got cold feet. Sellers came to us and asked for $950k - we agreed. Putting down 15%, no PMI, 30-year rate at 4.375%.

[...]

My biggest concern is the appraisal coming back criminally low and we'll indeed have to cover ~$50k... which we can do, but obviously would prefer to keep that for emergency fund and next vehicle purchase. Other similar houses nearby are selling for $1M to $1.2M but there was a modest one at $800k that I hope won't drag things down too much. Will find out in a couple weeks...
To follow up on my earlier post, we got our appraisal back... and it came in right at our offer price ($950k, 6% over list of $895k). Hallelujah. We'd been sweating a bit the prospect of bringing $55k cash to closing - it could be done, reluctantly, but now we're quite happy to have cleared that last hurdle. 10 years of saving, most of that decade spent LBYM, and now jumping in at what feels like the tippy top... oof! But the timing is right from the family perspective.

I explained the buying quest to our neighbor, a fellow renter, and he was aghast at the leaps and hoops we had to jump through. He said he has a 20% down payment but is loath to waive inspection or appraisal contingencies. I was, too, but told him we had to grit our teeth and bear it... and it worked out (for now).
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novolog
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by novolog »

letsgodenver wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:25 pm
letsgodenver wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:37 am We've finally taken the plunge into the insane real estate market in the Denver metro area. Home listed for $895k, we offered up to $945k, waived inspection items under $2k, except health and safety, covered appraisal gap of $50k. Lost out... for a week, until we learned that the original buyer backed out. They had offered $1.037M and then got cold feet. Sellers came to us and asked for $950k - we agreed. Putting down 15%, no PMI, 30-year rate at 4.375%.

[...]

My biggest concern is the appraisal coming back criminally low and we'll indeed have to cover ~$50k... which we can do, but obviously would prefer to keep that for emergency fund and next vehicle purchase. Other similar houses nearby are selling for $1M to $1.2M but there was a modest one at $800k that I hope won't drag things down too much. Will find out in a couple weeks...
To follow up on my earlier post, we got our appraisal back... and it came in right at our offer price ($950k, 6% over list of $895k). Hallelujah. We'd been sweating a bit the prospect of bringing $55k cash to closing - it could be done, reluctantly, but now we're quite happy to have cleared that last hurdle. 10 years of saving, most of that decade spent LBYM, and now jumping in at what feels like the tippy top... oof! But the timing is right from the family perspective.

I explained the buying quest to our neighbor, a fellow renter, and he was aghast at the leaps and hoops we had to jump through. He said he has a 20% down payment but is loath to waive inspection or appraisal contingencies. I was, too, but told him we had to grit our teeth and bear it... and it worked out (for now).
congrats
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Darth Xanadu
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by Darth Xanadu »

letsgodenver wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:25 pm 10 years of saving, most of that decade spent LBYM, and now jumping in at what feels like the tippy top... oof! But the timing is right from the family perspective.

This is the most important part.

Was in a similar position with similar results last year. Congrats.
stocknoob4111
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by stocknoob4111 »

Wanderingwheelz wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:34 am This is probably worth reading if you enjoy trying to predict things like housing supply and prices.

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... 005383/en/
This is a major misconception, people who stay put don't set the comps, those that are forced to sell (due to job loss or other conditions) set them so it's irrelevant if they stay put or not housing will still go to the level of affordability and availability of credit both of which are worsening.
Gus Chiggins
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by Gus Chiggins »

stocknoob4111 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:22 am
Wanderingwheelz wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:34 am This is probably worth reading if you enjoy trying to predict things like housing supply and prices.

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... 005383/en/
This is a major misconception, people who stay put don't set the comps, those that are forced to sell (due to job loss or other conditions) set them so it's irrelevant if they stay put or not housing will still go to the level of affordability and availability of credit both of which are worsening.
I think the point is that people staying put would continue to put downward pressure on inventory. As many people have pointed out, current housing prices are as much a reflection of historically low inventory (a decade of weak housing starts) and increasing demand (millennial family formation) as they are interest rates. Rising rates and people unwilling to trade up may weaken the top end some (reduced demand due to affordability), but people need good permanent housing and it’s hard to come by right now. If anything, rising rates may bring more people into a crowded market for fear of missing out on lower rates.

I also think remote work opportunities will also reduce the number of people needing to sell for job changes going forward. I don’t think it’s a material number, but could also put downward pressure on inventory in an already tight market.
mfmb5c
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by mfmb5c »

Here's my tale. My partner and I live in a small resort town where second homes and AirBnBs have been pushing out locals for years. The market has skyrocketed since Covid. We've been renting a just-big-enough 100-year-old house in a location that we love. The house is funky and outdated, which we're fine with — we are both in careers we enjoy but that don't have high earning potential, so we're not expecting anything fancy. We were looking into buying it, but the price the landlord was asking for just doesn't make financial sense with the amount of serious work the house needs to keep standing (significant structural and water-related issues).

Long story short, my parents made an unexpected offer to help us out on Friday, in a sort of investment scenario where they would get their portion back if/when we sell. I was shocked and had not yet decided whether to take them up on it when a few hours later, a realtor friend showed us an intriguing property near our current home that basically meets everything on our wish list — except the price. The house is older but well-built and well-maintained. The decor and wallpaper and carpet in the bathrooms is dated, but the structure is sound and the space is lovely and the yard is fantastic. But it's not within our budget. Honestly, the only reason I agreed to go see it was because I was curious and I like looking at houses.

I got caught up in the excitement with everyone else for the first 24 hours, then started voicing my concerns, but the train had started moving and I didn't feel certain enough to stick up for my concerns in the face of others' arguments. Their arguments are that a resort area like this isn't going to go down much when the rest of the market inevitably falters, and that if we don't get in the market now, we'll never be able to afford anything decent. My argument is that this house was overpriced and by playing into the heated bidding war game, we're likely setting ourselves up for being house poor. But I didn't argue strongly enough, and let myself be swayed by everyone else. Offers were due Monday, and we got the contract on Tuesday morning.

There's a huge due diligence sum, and while I love the house, the price makes me nauseous. My philosophy is and has always been not to buy more than you need or can afford. With my parents' help, we can afford it — but I would much rather not have to lean on them, and I'd rather have a mortgage that we can manage easily and pay extra toward the principal each month. Some folks in this town say there's no good options left at a more average budget, but I feel like if we waited and tapped into the word of mouth network, something would work out eventually.

As we proceed with inspections, the cost is only getting greater, so it seems really hard to walk away. There isn't really any moral to the story — maybe we'll get lucky, maybe we won't, but damn I wish we would have waited. Buying more house than we need during what is clearly some kind of bubble is something I never thought I would do, and I keep hoping it's a bad dream. This fast-paced game is not my cup of tea.
Modelslashactor
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by Modelslashactor »

mfmb5c wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:47 pm Here's my tale. My partner and I live in a small resort town where second homes and AirBnBs have been pushing out locals for years. The market has skyrocketed since Covid. We've been renting a just-big-enough 100-year-old house in a location that we love. The house is funky and outdated, which we're fine with — we are both in careers we enjoy but that don't have high earning potential, so we're not expecting anything fancy. We were looking into buying it, but the price the landlord was asking for just doesn't make financial sense with the amount of serious work the house needs to keep standing (significant structural and water-related issues).

Long story short, my parents made an unexpected offer to help us out on Friday, in a sort of investment scenario where they would get their portion back if/when we sell. I was shocked and had not yet decided whether to take them up on it when a few hours later, a realtor friend showed us an intriguing property near our current home that basically meets everything on our wish list — except the price. The house is older but well-built and well-maintained. The decor and wallpaper and carpet in the bathrooms is dated, but the structure is sound and the space is lovely and the yard is fantastic. But it's not within our budget. Honestly, the only reason I agreed to go see it was because I was curious and I like looking at houses.

I got caught up in the excitement with everyone else for the first 24 hours, then started voicing my concerns, but the train had started moving and I didn't feel certain enough to stick up for my concerns in the face of others' arguments. Their arguments are that a resort area like this isn't going to go down much when the rest of the market inevitably falters, and that if we don't get in the market now, we'll never be able to afford anything decent. My argument is that this house was overpriced and by playing into the heated bidding war game, we're likely setting ourselves up for being house poor. But I didn't argue strongly enough, and let myself be swayed by everyone else. Offers were due Monday, and we got the contract on Tuesday morning.

There's a huge due diligence sum, and while I love the house, the price makes me nauseous. My philosophy is and has always been not to buy more than you need or can afford. With my parents' help, we can afford it — but I would much rather not have to lean on them, and I'd rather have a mortgage that we can manage easily and pay extra toward the principal each month. Some folks in this town say there's no good options left at a more average budget, but I feel like if we waited and tapped into the word of mouth network, something would work out eventually.

As we proceed with inspections, the cost is only getting greater, so it seems really hard to walk away. There isn't really any moral to the story — maybe we'll get lucky, maybe we won't, but damn I wish we would have waited. Buying more house than we need during what is clearly some kind of bubble is something I never thought I would do, and I keep hoping it's a bad dream. This fast-paced game is not my cup of tea.
If it makes you feel any better, pretty much everyone feels this way after having an offer accepted regardless of the market. By virtue of getting the house, you were the only person crazy enough to pay as much as you did for it. And no matter how rich you are a big down payment is painful to make. Add in that transaction fees would cost you thousands if you sold right away and it usually takes a few years before you start to feel confident that you made a good decision (except apparently for those who bought in 2020).

That said, given your situation I’d be a little concerned depending on how far out of your budget it is. That’s great you have some help but make sure you’ll be able to cover repairs and maintenance, that stuff adds up fast.

And one last word on the market: while still crazy, I think it’s impossible that it won’t cool in the next 6 months. Probably not a crash, but cool. I think we’re still seeing purchases from people who locked in at 3-3.5% (such as my relative who closes next month at 3.3%) and as they phase out the prices will just be too steep for many, especially if inflation keeps eating into paychecks and stock valuations decrease.
kiwisun
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by kiwisun »

SwampDonkey wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:38 am We closed on our home last month and our approach was a bit unconventioanl.

I posted on several local social media sites (mostly FB groups) of who we were and what type of home we were looking for. I asked if anyone was considering selling their home to reach out to us as we may be interested in buying their home before they go through the hassle of preparing to list it. I received well over 20 replies - about 1/4 of them were houses we would have considered putting an offer on.

The key points in my posts:

- Fully qualified w/ financing and able to put $100k+ as down payment; $10k as earnest money.
- Can close as quickly as the sellers wanted to.
- We did not have a realtor so they could save on realtor fees.
- Willing to waive inspection findings if less than $500 per finding or total findings were less than $5k estimated repairs. I emphasized the home inspection was not to nickel and dime the owners - we just wanted to make sure the major systems of the home were not in need of replacement.
- Willing to "lease-back" for up to five months.

The house we closed on is perfect for our family; it is in the location we desired and we settled on a great price (despite the craziness of the market). When we closed, the home was $60k below the "zesstimate" (and the other realtor website estimates) and it appraised for $30k over closing price.

The seller was incentivized to sell to us as they saved $40-50k in realtor fees, did zero effort to prep the home for sale (they have lots of kids, pets, dual-working spouses ----- the family was busy....), and they don't have to stress about aligning the sale of their home to when their next home will be ready.

The closing process went extremely smooth and the seller and I maintained great comms throughout. 10/10 would do it again.
Very well done.

I mentioned this approach to a colleague who reached out to his landlord and is now waiting for a reply. I was wondering the logistics of making an offer. Did you just hire a lawyer to take care of offer and other paperwork, then arranged inspection by yourself with permission of seller, then shared contract with lender? Or did you take care of making offer by yourself? If so, did you leverage an electronic signing app or old paper fashion? Thank you.

One additional question: could you walk me through the way you came up with the fair price/ price you were willing to pay? Did you just subtract the 6 pct agent commission from the likely market value?
bostonboglehead123
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by bostonboglehead123 »

Things seem to be cooling down a bit .. 6% interest rates on top of sky high housing prices. Debating if I should start saving up some cash so we can buy an apartment in case prices do come down.

Have my eye on a couple of locations around town. (My username is a bit of a giveaway - Allston, Fenway etc. are the targets)
S4C5
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by S4C5 »

:dollar
bostonboglehead123 wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 10:17 pm Things seem to be cooling down a bit .. 6% interest rates on top of sky high housing prices. Debating if I should start saving up some cash so we can buy an apartment in case prices do come down.

Have my eye on a couple of locations around town. (My username is a bit of a giveaway - Allston, Fenway etc. are the targets)
Yep. It’s really starting to happen all of the sudden. Noticing it too.
The resale market is one thing.
Will be interesting to see what happens with the huge numbers of new construction in the pipeline about to hit the market in 6-12 months. Could be setting up a perfect storm. Builders have got to be getting nervous.

Home builder stock prices getting hammered recently. LEN is down like 30% YTD and the chart is in a free fall with no support. Wall Street knows this looks like it could get really ugly.

This is not a time to being carrying a lot of debt and having to rely on borrowing going forward. Unfortunately that is where most Americans are. It’s bad.
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princetontiger
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by princetontiger »

I've decided to rent.

a $2.5m house rents for about $6k, compared to $11k if I put 20% down.
blueberrypi
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by blueberrypi »

No sign of a cool down in NH, just lost offer #6 to a all-cash-no-contingency buyer. Time for a break? Tempting to take the summer off.
rage_phish
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by rage_phish »

New house just listed on our block. Curious to see how it plays out. It’s the first one to list since we saw major rises in rates

The two previous sales were just before the rate increases and they went for astronomical (to me) numbers
CletusCaddy
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by CletusCaddy »

princetontiger wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 10:06 am I've decided to rent.

a $2.5m house rents for about $6k, compared to $11k if I put 20% down.
But part of the $11k is principal payback.

How much of the $11k is interest, insurance, maintenance, property tax, and income tax benefit? Probably still higher than $6k but maybe not much higher.
newyorker
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by newyorker »

CletusCaddy wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 11:33 am
princetontiger wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 10:06 am I've decided to rent.

a $2.5m house rents for about $6k, compared to $11k if I put 20% down.
But part of the $11k is principal payback.

How much of the $11k is interest, insurance, maintenance, property tax, and income tax benefit? Probably still higher than $6k but maybe not much higher.
I know but for the rest of country, principal + interest is lower than rent.. most often excluding vhcol
newyorker
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by newyorker »

blueberrypi wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 10:19 am No sign of a cool down in NH, just lost offer #6 to a all-cash-no-contingency buyer. Time for a break? Tempting to take the summer off.
What city in NH that is so hot? There is really nothing there other than being close to Boston. Of course, having no income and sales tax is great. When even rust belt city RE is hot, you know the whole country RE is hot.
blueberrypi
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by blueberrypi »

newyorker wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 11:50 am
blueberrypi wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 10:19 am No sign of a cool down in NH, just lost offer #6 to a all-cash-no-contingency buyer. Time for a break? Tempting to take the summer off.
What city in NH that is so hot? There is really nothing there other than being close to Boston. Of course, having no income and sales tax is great. When even rust belt city RE is hot, you know the whole country RE is hot.
Rockingham and Strafford counties.
newyorker
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by newyorker »

blueberrypi wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 12:27 pm
newyorker wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 11:50 am
blueberrypi wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 10:19 am No sign of a cool down in NH, just lost offer #6 to a all-cash-no-contingency buyer. Time for a break? Tempting to take the summer off.
What city in NH that is so hot? There is really nothing there other than being close to Boston. Of course, having no income and sales tax is great. When even rust belt city RE is hot, you know the whole country RE is hot.
Rockingham and Strafford counties.

I knew it. Had to be close to Boston.
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mrspock
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by mrspock »

princetontiger wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 10:06 am I've decided to rent.

a $2.5m house rents for about $6k, compared to $11k if I put 20% down.
I’m in an easily $3-3.5m place (historic 3bdrm townhome, large yard, landscaping, backing on to SF bay w/ water and bridge views)… $6k rent. Property taxes alone would be half of what I’m paying, and I incur 0 capital gains when I elect to move (which won’t be anytime soon).

I can’t make the “buy” math work here at all if you consider all carrying costs, taxes and commissions. It didn’t make sense when rates were 3% for a 30yr, and makes far less at 6-7%.
NiceUnparticularMan
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by NiceUnparticularMan »

Use with EXTREME caution, but there is a high velocity home price index available. This particular index norms to a specific type of home to control for a variety of possible confounding factors, and is reported weekly with a two-week lag:

https://haus.com/resources/the-common-haus-price-index

Anyway, this index suggests home prices have continued to increase, but at a lower level starting late last year. It is not (yet) suggesting home prices have actually started to drop. And of course it is entirely possible home price increases will accelerate again, rather than decelerate further or start dropping.
CletusCaddy
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by CletusCaddy »

mrspock wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:13 pm
princetontiger wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 10:06 am I've decided to rent.

a $2.5m house rents for about $6k, compared to $11k if I put 20% down.
I’m in an easily $3-3.5m place (historic 3bdrm townhome, large yard, landscaping, backing on to SF bay w/ water and bridge views)… $6k rent. Property taxes alone would be half of what I’m paying, and I incur 0 capital gains when I elect to move (which won’t be anytime soon).

I can’t make the “buy” math work here at all if you consider all carrying costs, taxes and commissions. It didn’t make sense when rates were 3% for a 30yr, and makes far less at 6-7%.
I’m in a $2.4M property with $1.2M loan. Most of the equity is market appreciation.

My carrying cost is cheaper than comparable rent. Locking in 1.5% interest only mortgage helps a lot.
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mrspock
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by mrspock »

CletusCaddy wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:39 pm
mrspock wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:13 pm
princetontiger wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 10:06 am I've decided to rent.

a $2.5m house rents for about $6k, compared to $11k if I put 20% down.
I’m in an easily $3-3.5m place (historic 3bdrm townhome, large yard, landscaping, backing on to SF bay w/ water and bridge views)… $6k rent. Property taxes alone would be half of what I’m paying, and I incur 0 capital gains when I elect to move (which won’t be anytime soon).

I can’t make the “buy” math work here at all if you consider all carrying costs, taxes and commissions. It didn’t make sense when rates were 3% for a 30yr, and makes far less at 6-7%.
I’m in a $2.4M property with $1.2M loan. Most of the equity is market appreciation.

My carrying cost is cheaper than comparable rent. Locking in 1.5% interest only mortgage helps a lot.
At 1.5%, I can imagine it would, and given you are going interest only, you are likely a more sophisticated investor than most home buyers.

I own a couple other properties as well (both in VCHOLs), but the math when I bought them (post financial crisis, heart of pandemic panic) made far more sense. I pretty much use them as an inflation hedge, and source of non-callable loans for investing at this point (and pleasure). SF though… I’m betting it’s going to run into problems for those flush with money, but mathematically challenged. This outcome however, depends a lot on interest rates though, they need to stay high for long enough.
SwampDonkey
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by SwampDonkey »

kiwisun wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:54 pm
SwampDonkey wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:38 am Explanation of how we made our purchase.
Very well done.

I mentioned this approach to a colleague who reached out to his landlord and is now waiting for a reply. I was wondering the logistics of making an offer. Did you just hire a lawyer to take care of offer and other paperwork, then arranged inspection by yourself with permission of seller, then shared contract with lender? Or did you take care of making offer by yourself? If so, did you leverage an electronic signing app or old paper fashion? Thank you.

One additional question: could you walk me through the way you came up with the fair price/ price you were willing to pay? Did you just subtract the 6 pct agent commission from the likely market value?
Q. How did we make our offer and how did we come up with our offer price?
A. Our initial offer was made via a narrative email; it was done by myself. We explained what we were offering and why we were offering the amount we did.
When the seller initially contacted me about possibly being interested in selling, and after we determined we were interested in the home, we asked the price range he was looking to sell for. That was our relative baseline for determine our offering price.
We then developed our own "comps" (the same thing realtors do) by comparing recent sales prices, current homes on the market (and their asking prices), etc. All of this info is easily searchable via Realtor.com, Zillow, RedFin, etc. We went pretty thorough with this - created an Excel Spreadsheet with all of the variables, etc. We used that info, along with what the price range the buyer said he wanted for the home, to determine our offer price. Our offer price was slightly less than the price range the seller initially provided but it was still a very reasonable offer. When we made our offer, we also included our Excel spreadsheet to show our offer was made with a fair amount of due diligence on our part.

Q. How did we manage the paperwork?
A. Once we came to terms, we just googled the formal real estate forms for that state and filled in the real estate contract. There are a lot of websites that explain every line item on the contracts - don't let your unfamiliarity with them scare you. If you do some research, they are easy to figure out.

All paperwork was coordinated between the seller and myself. I filled out 90% of the required forms, signed it (I digitally signed via my Mac), emailed it to him and he would print and sign. He'd email it back to me. Note, I did have a realtor initially reach out and she offered to handle all of the paperwork for a flat $1k fee. We did not use her but that is an avenue you could pursue if you are not comfortable with the paperwork.

Once everything was sent to the title company and the lender, they go through the forms with a fine-toothed comb to verify everything is accurate. We had 1-2 things that needed slight modification and it was nothing more than a quick change on a digital form and then resubmit it.

Q. How did we manage the home inspection?
I scheduled the home inspector. He offered me three times he was available, I offered those three times to the seller and he told me which time worked best for him. I then told the inspector which of the three times worked for the inspection.


GOOD LUCK!
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princetontiger
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by princetontiger »

mrspock wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:13 pm
princetontiger wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 10:06 am I've decided to rent.

a $2.5m house rents for about $6k, compared to $11k if I put 20% down.
I’m in an easily $3-3.5m place (historic 3bdrm townhome, large yard, landscaping, backing on to SF bay w/ water and bridge views)… $6k rent. Property taxes alone would be half of what I’m paying, and I incur 0 capital gains when I elect to move (which won’t be anytime soon).

I can’t make the “buy” math work here at all if you consider all carrying costs, taxes and commissions. It didn’t make sense when rates were 3% for a 30yr, and makes far less at 6-7%.
Glad I'm not the only one! :)
stinkydash
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by stinkydash »

We just removed our last contingency and are set to close in 2 weeks. Fortunately we were able to snag a sub-4 percent rate but we would definitely not have offered what we did at current rates.

We made the decision to buy now because we really need the space (2 kids in a 2 bedroom) but if time wasn’t pressing, we’d probably wait another couple years for things to become more sane.
Journeyman510
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by Journeyman510 »

Things aren't slowing down yet in the SF Bay Area. Just saw a house list for 1.35m and close at 2.5m. I went to an open house in my neighborhood out of curiosity and it was a mad house in there...I thought I was in a nightclub it was so packed and there was a frenetic energy.
mervinj7
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by mervinj7 »

Journeyman510 wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 9:54 pm Things aren't slowing down yet in the SF Bay Area. Just saw a house list for 1.35m and close at 2.5m. I went to an open house in my neighborhood out of curiosity and it was a mad house in there...I thought I was in a nightclub it was so packed and there was a frenetic energy.
We also drove by a open house in our neighborhood in the Bay Area today. Total zoo outside.
vfinx
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by vfinx »

Went to tour a house with a friend who is in the market, and my job is to stop them from doing something stupid. Asking was $5m which even in this market I thought was absolutely insane. This was one of the rare cases where I felt the seller was asking too much. My friend did not offer. It just closed at 1% below asking. Much respect to the seller who probably got a higher price than the usual underpricing gimmick would have. The house itself wasn’t special, but sits on a huge (by SF Bay Area standards) plot of land. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the house torn down, and the lot split into four. That could generate $12m-$15m in this market.

Edit: forgot to mention that it was a very busy showing. Lots of fancy cars parked outside.
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mrspock
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by mrspock »

Journeyman510 wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 9:54 pm Things aren't slowing down yet in the SF Bay Area. Just saw a house list for 1.35m and close at 2.5m. I went to an open house in my neighborhood out of curiosity and it was a mad house in there...I thought I was in a nightclub it was so packed and there was a frenetic energy.
Give it a month or so… I suspect many using 30yr rates the locked in via pre-approval. We could start to see more 5/7 ARMS too, if this is happening the craziness might last longer.
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princetontiger
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by princetontiger »

We looked past few months. Nothing great.

Locked in 3.75% back in Feb. Rates today stand at 5.1%.

Hawaii. Jumbo @ $1.5.m.
kiwisun
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by kiwisun »

SwampDonkey wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 7:46 pm
kiwisun wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:54 pm
SwampDonkey wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:38 am Explanation of how we made our purchase.
Very well done.

I mentioned this approach to a colleague who reached out to his landlord and is now waiting for a reply. I was wondering the logistics of making an offer. Did you just hire a lawyer to take care of offer and other paperwork, then arranged inspection by yourself with permission of seller, then shared contract with lender? Or did you take care of making offer by yourself? If so, did you leverage an electronic signing app or old paper fashion? Thank you.

One additional question: could you walk me through the way you came up with the fair price/ price you were willing to pay? Did you just subtract the 6 pct agent commission from the likely market value?
Q. How did we make our offer and how did we come up with our offer price?
A. Our initial offer was made via a narrative email; it was done by myself. We explained what we were offering and why we were offering the amount we did.
When the seller initially contacted me about possibly being interested in selling, and after we determined we were interested in the home, we asked the price range he was looking to sell for. That was our relative baseline for determine our offering price.
We then developed our own "comps" (the same thing realtors do) by comparing recent sales prices, current homes on the market (and their asking prices), etc. All of this info is easily searchable via Realtor.com, Zillow, RedFin, etc. We went pretty thorough with this - created an Excel Spreadsheet with all of the variables, etc. We used that info, along with what the price range the buyer said he wanted for the home, to determine our offer price. Our offer price was slightly less than the price range the seller initially provided but it was still a very reasonable offer. When we made our offer, we also included our Excel spreadsheet to show our offer was made with a fair amount of due diligence on our part.

Q. How did we manage the paperwork?
A. Once we came to terms, we just googled the formal real estate forms for that state and filled in the real estate contract. There are a lot of websites that explain every line item on the contracts - don't let your unfamiliarity with them scare you. If you do some research, they are easy to figure out.

All paperwork was coordinated between the seller and myself. I filled out 90% of the required forms, signed it (I digitally signed via my Mac), emailed it to him and he would print and sign. He'd email it back to me. Note, I did have a realtor initially reach out and she offered to handle all of the paperwork for a flat $1k fee. We did not use her but that is an avenue you could pursue if you are not comfortable with the paperwork.

Once everything was sent to the title company and the lender, they go through the forms with a fine-toothed comb to verify everything is accurate. We had 1-2 things that needed slight modification and it was nothing more than a quick change on a digital form and then resubmit it.

Q. How did we manage the home inspection?
I scheduled the home inspector. He offered me three times he was available, I offered those three times to the seller and he told me which time worked best for him. I then told the inspector which of the three times worked for the inspection.


GOOD LUCK!
Thank you swampdonkey, very well done.
holycow007
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by holycow007 »

https://www.redfin.com/UT/Holladay/4744 ... 03=variant

House was sold for 650K a year ago I believe. Some remodeling done and listed for twice..some not so crazy foot traffic last week on open house

https://www.redfin.com/UT/Holladay/2819 ... card_share


A bit more foot traffic for this one two weeks ago and under contract already!

I am guessing not much stretching going on at these levels but who knows
Last edited by holycow007 on Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
2commaBH
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by 2commaBH »

mfmb5c wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:47 pm Here's my tale. My partner and I live in a small resort town where second homes and AirBnBs have been pushing out locals for years. The market has skyrocketed since Covid. We've been renting a just-big-enough 100-year-old house in a location that we love. The house is funky and outdated, which we're fine with — we are both in careers we enjoy but that don't have high earning potential, so we're not expecting anything fancy. We were looking into buying it, but the price the landlord was asking for just doesn't make financial sense with the amount of serious work the house needs to keep standing (significant structural and water-related issues).

Long story short, my parents made an unexpected offer to help us out on Friday, in a sort of investment scenario where they would get their portion back if/when we sell. I was shocked and had not yet decided whether to take them up on it when a few hours later, a realtor friend showed us an intriguing property near our current home that basically meets everything on our wish list — except the price. The house is older but well-built and well-maintained. The decor and wallpaper and carpet in the bathrooms is dated, but the structure is sound and the space is lovely and the yard is fantastic. But it's not within our budget. Honestly, the only reason I agreed to go see it was because I was curious and I like looking at houses.

I got caught up in the excitement with everyone else for the first 24 hours, then started voicing my concerns, but the train had started moving and I didn't feel certain enough to stick up for my concerns in the face of others' arguments. Their arguments are that a resort area like this isn't going to go down much when the rest of the market inevitably falters, and that if we don't get in the market now, we'll never be able to afford anything decent. My argument is that this house was overpriced and by playing into the heated bidding war game, we're likely setting ourselves up for being house poor. But I didn't argue strongly enough, and let myself be swayed by everyone else. Offers were due Monday, and we got the contract on Tuesday morning.

There's a huge due diligence sum, and while I love the house, the price makes me nauseous. My philosophy is and has always been not to buy more than you need or can afford. With my parents' help, we can afford it — but I would much rather not have to lean on them, and I'd rather have a mortgage that we can manage easily and pay extra toward the principal each month. Some folks in this town say there's no good options left at a more average budget, but I feel like if we waited and tapped into the word of mouth network, something would work out eventually.

As we proceed with inspections, the cost is only getting greater, so it seems really hard to walk away. There isn't really any moral to the story — maybe we'll get lucky, maybe we won't, but damn I wish we would have waited. Buying more house than we need during what is clearly some kind of bubble is something I never thought I would do, and I keep hoping it's a bad dream. This fast-paced game is not my cup of tea.
Some unsolicited advice - trust your gut. If you feel this queasy now, it will not get better once you're paying that monthly nut. Historically, second homes soar in a boom but are the first to crash in a bust. Sunk costs are sunk costs. Good luck to you.
Paul78
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by Paul78 »

holycow007 wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:02 am https://www.redfin.com/UT/Holladay/4744 ... 03=variant

House was sold for 650K a year ago I believe. Some remodeling done and listed for twice..some not so crazy foot traffic last week on open house

https://www.redfin.com/UT/Holladay/2819 ... card_share


A bit more foot traffic for this one two weeks ago and under contract already!

I am guessing not much stretching going on at these levels but who knows
And here I was thinking the fact the house I bought went up from 500k two years ago to 750k when I purchased it a couple of months ago is a crazy increase. Heck even in an amazing "best" case scenario maybe the bubble doesn't pop for another couple of years and my house hits 1 mil before the downturn. But even in that case it still would have taken 4 years for my house to double in price not 1 year. Redfin does have my home at 820k so maybe there is a chance it hits the "meaningless" 1 mil mark before the downturn.

I say meaningless in the sense I am locked into this house as the increase in mortgage rates (my rate was nowhere near the bottom but it was still 2% lower than the current rates) have already taken 100k of my purchasing power. So even in a world where my house is worth 1 mil when I hit the two year residence mark (able to get capital gains waived) I have no options other than going to be a renter or buying a much worse house. Say I sell it for 1 mil well that goes down to 900k after fees/repair/ect, down to 325k in pocket after paying off rest of mortgage. Sure that would be right around a 100k net (after factoring in closing cost to buy house, the extra amount it cost above renting, repairs, ect) profit in 24 month. So my budget to get the same monthly payment as my current home would be 800-850k. But it would make zero sense to sell just to buy a worse house with the same monthly payment. Thus only would make sense if I decided to rent OR take a huge downshift in my house (buying a 600k home that is much less desirable than where I am currently living). In short I think mortgage rates will at least stay about 5% which is a fine historical number but is still a shock to the system when most people with a mortgage are well below that number. So most people like myself with be stuck in the home they purchases with the low mortgage rate. And don't get me wrong my ideal case for my home is to stay in it until I retire in 23 years. At that point sell it for at least 2 mil (or a 250k profit in todays money, assuming a 3% yearly inflation rate) and buy a retirement home.
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AerialWombat
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by AerialWombat »

deleted
Last edited by AerialWombat on Mon May 23, 2022 3:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
This post is a work of fiction. Any similarity to real financial advice is purely coincidental.
sorethumb
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by sorethumb »

Things that can’t go on forever, don’t. There is definitely unsustainable price action in housing and construction. Currently we are trying to build a simple 1700sqft home in central Colorado and will struggle to keep our construction costs under $650k, not including land, well, septic, and power.

I think this is going to tip like a canoe. Slowly at first, then all at once.
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deanbrew
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by deanbrew »

sorethumb wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:58 pm Things that can’t go on forever, don’t. There is definitely unsustainable price action in housing and construction. Currently we are trying to build a simple 1700sqft home in central Colorado and will struggle to keep our construction costs under $650k, not including land, well, septic, and power.

I think this is going to tip like a canoe. Slowly at first, then all at once.
I agree that the market will correct in many, many locations. And I've been hearing that builders are charging $350/sf and up for new construction, reflecting materials inflation, labor inflation and extraordinary profits all at once.
"The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson
tim1999
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by tim1999 »

My local market has been flooded with new inventory over the past week, and most of it isn't going under contract within a day or two as used to be the case. In fact I hardly any of it is going under contract already from what I can see, except for the trashed fixer-uppers that appeal to flippers. I have also seen some homebuilders in exurbs all of a sudden start offering small incentives or promoting the fact that they now have no lotteries, no waitlists, and lots available for immediate selection.

A large proportion of the new inventory seems to be from sellers who bought in 2018-2021 and are trying to make a quick windfall.
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novolog
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by novolog »

we bought our house in october 2021. if we paid the same amount for it today our monthly payment would be $800 (or 30%) more than it is now because of higher rates.

essentially if we waited 6 months to buy we would already be completely priced out of the entire town.

recently spoke to another couple who are looking in the same town and i honestly have no idea how they can afford it. it's possible they have not run the numbers with the new rates.
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Californiastate
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by Californiastate »

sorethumb wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:58 pm Things that can’t go on forever, don’t. There is definitely unsustainable price action in housing and construction. Currently we are trying to build a simple 1700sqft home in central Colorado and will struggle to keep our construction costs under $650k, not including land, well, septic, and power.

I think this is going to tip like a canoe. Slowly at first, then all at once.
I wouldn’t wager on a crash like the GFC. That was from the liar loans and adjustables. I don’t know who in their right mind would get an adjustable with rising rates.
Normchad
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by Normchad »

Californiastate wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:15 pm
sorethumb wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:58 pm Things that can’t go on forever, don’t. There is definitely unsustainable price action in housing and construction. Currently we are trying to build a simple 1700sqft home in central Colorado and will struggle to keep our construction costs under $650k, not including land, well, septic, and power.

I think this is going to tip like a canoe. Slowly at first, then all at once.
I wouldn’t wager on a crash like the GFC. That was from the liar loans and adjustables. I don’t know who in their right mind would get an adjustable with rising rates.
I tend to agree with you. It really all comes down to employment though. As long as people don’t lose their jobs, they can keep making their mortgage payments. Rising rates won’t force people out of their homes unless they lose their jobs. (I’m assuming nobody has an adjustable rate mortgage these days).

But prior to the GFC, people were paying stupid prices and didn’t have income to back it up. Right now, salaries are exploding and people seem to be flush with cash.
lazynovice
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by lazynovice »

Normchad wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:26 pm
Californiastate wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:15 pm
sorethumb wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:58 pm Things that can’t go on forever, don’t. There is definitely unsustainable price action in housing and construction. Currently we are trying to build a simple 1700sqft home in central Colorado and will struggle to keep our construction costs under $650k, not including land, well, septic, and power.

I think this is going to tip like a canoe. Slowly at first, then all at once.
I wouldn’t wager on a crash like the GFC. That was from the liar loans and adjustables. I don’t know who in their right mind would get an adjustable with rising rates.
I tend to agree with you. It really all comes down to employment though. As long as people don’t lose their jobs, they can keep making their mortgage payments. Rising rates won’t force people out of their homes unless they lose their jobs. (I’m assuming nobody has an adjustable rate mortgage these days).

But prior to the GFC, people were paying stupid prices and didn’t have income to back it up. Right now, salaries are exploding and people seem to be flush with cash.
Adjustable rate mortgages still make financial sense for buyers who plan to sell well in advance of the first adjustment. Entering into a 7/1 or 10/1 ARM today means no adjustment until 2029 or 2032. No one knows what interest rates will be then.
CletusCaddy
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by CletusCaddy »

Californiastate wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:15 pm
sorethumb wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:58 pm Things that can’t go on forever, don’t. There is definitely unsustainable price action in housing and construction. Currently we are trying to build a simple 1700sqft home in central Colorado and will struggle to keep our construction costs under $650k, not including land, well, septic, and power.

I think this is going to tip like a canoe. Slowly at first, then all at once.
I wouldn’t wager on a crash like the GFC. That was from the liar loans and adjustables. I don’t know who in their right mind would get an adjustable with rising rates.
Adjustables are cheaper than fixed rate. That’s why you get them.

Paying for a higher fixed rate when a lower adjustable is available is market timing
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FlatSix
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by FlatSix »

Placed an offer this evening for 50k above asking with waived inspection (we had one done earlier in the day), willing to pay cash up to offer price if appraisal came in lower. Conventional mortgage with 20% down, non contingent. Offers due by 6pm.

At 630pm, selling realtor called back to say we were one of three “finalists” and asked if we would like to increase our offer by 15k, the other two offers were also being asked to make concessions or increase price. It was not a counter offer, so by agreeing we would not be guaranteed anything.

Our realtor, in so many words, said this was poor form to try and squeeze buyers but they’re allowed to do whatever they want. We discussed and decided to stay firm as we are thankfully not desperate for a new house and don’t want the most expensive home in the subdivision to be even more so. Guess we’ll see what happens.
runninginvestor
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by runninginvestor »

FlatSix wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:00 pm Placed an offer this evening for 50k above asking with waived inspection (we had one done earlier in the day), willing to pay cash up to offer price if appraisal came in lower. Conventional mortgage with 20% down, non contingent. Offers due by 6pm.

At 630pm, selling realtor called back to say we were one of three “finalists” and asked if we would like to increase our offer by 15k, the other two offers were also being asked to make concessions or increase price. It was not a counter offer, so by agreeing we would not be guaranteed anything.

Our realtor, in so many words, said this was poor form to try and squeeze buyers but they’re allowed to do whatever they want. We discussed and decided to stay firm as we are thankfully not desperate for a new house and don’t want the most expensive home in the subdivision to be even more so. Guess we’ll see what happens.
Dang you're more patient than me! I would have said they can accept the offer at that time or I'd pull it. I'm guessing someone else offered ~$15k more with more contingencies so they're trying to get you to match their price?
DemySD
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by DemySD »

FlatSix wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:00 pm Placed an offer this evening for 50k above asking with waived inspection (we had one done earlier in the day), willing to pay cash up to offer price if appraisal came in lower. Conventional mortgage with 20% down, non contingent. Offers due by 6pm.

At 630pm, selling realtor called back to say we were one of three “finalists” and asked if we would like to increase our offer by 15k, the other two offers were also being asked to make concessions or increase price. It was not a counter offer, so by agreeing we would not be guaranteed anything.

Our realtor, in so many words, said this was poor form to try and squeeze buyers but they’re allowed to do whatever they want. We discussed and decided to stay firm as we are thankfully not desperate for a new house and don’t want the most expensive home in the subdivision to be even more so. Guess we’ll see what happens.
Yep, this has happened at every house I ended up being a "lucky finalist" for...the congratulations-you-might-get-the-house tax where a hand suddenly appears at the very end and wants to be greased just because.

I'm currently oh-for-two (years).
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FlatSix
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Re: Tales from this insane real estate market

Post by FlatSix »

runninginvestor wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:05 pm
FlatSix wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:00 pm Placed an offer this evening for 50k above asking with waived inspection (we had one done earlier in the day), willing to pay cash up to offer price if appraisal came in lower. Conventional mortgage with 20% down, non contingent. Offers due by 6pm.

At 630pm, selling realtor called back to say we were one of three “finalists” and asked if we would like to increase our offer by 15k, the other two offers were also being asked to make concessions or increase price. It was not a counter offer, so by agreeing we would not be guaranteed anything.

Our realtor, in so many words, said this was poor form to try and squeeze buyers but they’re allowed to do whatever they want. We discussed and decided to stay firm as we are thankfully not desperate for a new house and don’t want the most expensive home in the subdivision to be even more so. Guess we’ll see what happens.
Dang you're more patient than me! I would have said they can accept the offer at that time or I'd pull it. I'm guessing someone else offered ~$15k more with more contingencies so they're trying to get you to match their price?
Yeah, that's pretty much the gist of it. We did pay $450 for the inspection so figured we would just stay in the running, I suppose. Trying not to get too stressed out and it's hard to know if it's the seller, realtor or both that are trying to take everyone for a ride.
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