Medallion signature guarantee

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tibbitts
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Re: Medallion signature guarantee

Post by tibbitts »

Arby wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:39 pm
tc101 wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:05 am

Have you ever needed one?
I need one to set up a standing wire transfer authorization at Fidelity. This can be done at any Fidelity branch. However, I am in Thailand where there are no Fidelity branches. Any ideas?
If it makes you feel any better, where I live in the U.S. there aren't any Fidelity branches either.
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FrugalInvestor
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Re: Medallion signature guarantee

Post by FrugalInvestor »

I have never needed one and wondered why anyone does.

I found the following on Wikipedia and Bank of America's website:

Wikipedia link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medallion ... _guarantee

Bank of America website quote:
Medallion signature guarantee
It confirms your identity, signature and legal authority to transfer securities
Common reasons for needing a medallion signature guarantee
Moving securities to a new account (for example transferring a 401(k) after switching jobs)
Giving securities as a gift (such as transferring shares of stock to a child or donating them to a nonprofit)
The owner of the securities has died and ownership needs to transfer to a court-appointed representative
We provide medallion services free of charge for Bank of America or Merrill clients who have been with us for at least 6 months (if you're a Merrill or Private Bank client, please contact your Advisor for assistance).

A medallion signature guarantee must be completed in person because it confirms your identity, signature and legal authority to transfer securities. In order to protect your assets, certain documentation is required to approve medallion requests.

We do not provide medallion signature guarantees for assets you're transferring out of a Bank of America or Merrill account (guarantees are typically provided by a third party not involved in the transfer or by the firm receiving the assets). We also do not provide guarantees for powers of attorney and business accounts.

Medallion stamp
Please note: A medallion signature guarantee is not the same as a document notarization (which assures that a signature is genuine) or a signature and endorsement guarantee (used for negotiable items such as checks or U.S. Treasury Bond forms).
I have done some of the above things so guess I just got "lucky" to not have to provide it.
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unmesh
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Re: Medallion signature guarantee

Post by unmesh »

theac wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:06 pm ...
Anyway, I will ask them next time I put in a to call to Schwab for something,
but I suspect there will be no easy solution like I was starting to hope there would be :D

Or maybe someone else here has already asked that question and knows the answer?
I did ask and they said they only provided MSGs if they were required in the context of assets being transferred to Schwab.
mighty72
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Re: Medallion signature guarantee

Post by mighty72 »

Very timely topic. I need MSG for the first time; actually my spouse does. Treasury Direct couldn't verify identity while opening account so needs one. Regular BOA folks can't do it; you have to find a branch with a specific financial advisor. They do make it easy to find one and schedule an appointment online.

Also, they won't provide it if you are transferring money out of boa
Tanker
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Re: Medallion signature guarantee

Post by Tanker »

I needed an MSG when my father passed away in late 2019. He was a GTE/Bell Atlantic retiree and had a paper stock certificate I found when administering his estate. Paper stock certs have no beneficiaries, so we had to open a small probate case first just to get the MSG to transfer the certificated shares to my mother as next of kin.

We live in Michigan, but all my banking is at USAA in Texas and they don't offer MSG service. Luckily, my mother's local Michigan PNC Bank branch was able to help. PNC completed the MSG documents needed to accompany the physical stock certificate and ownership transfer forms for FedEx delivery to the transfer agent, Computershare. Computershare then transferred the shares to Vanguard.

I'd never seen a paper stock certificate before. Like an early 1800's land deed, they are quite ornate but not a very practical or secure means to hold stock.
unmesh
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Re: Medallion signature guarantee

Post by unmesh »

unmesh wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:07 am
theac wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:06 pm ...
Anyway, I will ask them next time I put in a to call to Schwab for something,
but I suspect there will be no easy solution like I was starting to hope there would be :D

Or maybe someone else here has already asked that question and knows the answer?
I did ask and they said they only provided MSGs if they were required in the context of assets being transferred to Schwab.
Chase and Fidelity said they couldn't do it either :(
BrokerageZelda
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Re: Medallion signature guarantee

Post by BrokerageZelda »

unmesh wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:26 pm
unmesh wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:07 am
theac wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:06 pm ...
Anyway, I will ask them next time I put in a to call to Schwab for something,
but I suspect there will be no easy solution like I was starting to hope there would be :D

Or maybe someone else here has already asked that question and knows the answer?
I did ask and they said they only provided MSGs if they were required in the context of assets being transferred to Schwab.
Chase and Fidelity said they couldn't do it either :(
For form 5512, a Medallion Signature Guarantee is not strictly necessary; a savings bond paying agent stamp (available at banks and credit unions that have the ability to redeem paper savings bonds) is acceptable. I was able to get this stamp on my Form 5512 from the branch manager at my local credit union (which does not offer Medallion stamps) after he looked carefully at the instructions.

For this reason, I would not ask "if I can receive a Medallion stamp", I would ask something along the lines of "can I have a savings bond form validated" and see what they say.

(Edit: looks like I may have accidentally re-answered. My advice in the last paragraph still stands, just in case it might help frame it better for some institutions.)
CompareContrast
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Re: Medallion signature guarantee

Post by CompareContrast »

Wells Fargo stopped offering Medallion Signature Guarantees in 2021, except for wealth management customers and even then you have to go to a special branch. Wells Fargo does offer Endorsement Guarantees, which is suppose to work for Treasury Direct's form 5511.

Bank of America appears to have taken down its medallion pages: google (and DuckDuckGo) links have gone dead. I've had to acquire a Medallion sporadically over the years; sometimes fees have been charged, sometimes they've done it for free. I guess I'll be looking around for a brick/mortar which provides this service. Some reporter should figure out what's happening here.

This website provides an interesting tip: "Check with the banks that you have credit card accounts with. If they have local branches, see if they will do one for you."
exodusNH
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Re: Medallion signature guarantee

Post by exodusNH »

CompareContrast wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:43 am Wells Fargo stopped offering Medallion Signature Guarantees in 2021, except for wealth management customers and even then you have to go to a special branch. Wells Fargo does offer Endorsement Guarantees, which is suppose to work for Treasury Direct's form 5511.

Bank of America appears to have taken down its medallion pages: google (and DuckDuckGo) links have gone dead. I've had to acquire a Medallion sporadically over the years; sometimes fees have been charged, sometimes they've done it for free. I guess I'll be looking around for a brick/mortar which provides this service. Some reporter should figure out what's happening here.

This website provides an interesting tip: "Check with the banks that you have credit card accounts with. If they have local branches, see if they will do one for you."
The bank becomes liable for up to the amount of the Medallion Signature Guarantee. (There are different levels of liability.) Since it's both an uncommon request (training / administrative costs go to waste) and increases their risk, it's doesn't make business sense as a general service.
CompareContrast
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Re: Medallion signature guarantee

Post by CompareContrast »

exodusNH wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:47 am The bank becomes liable for up to the amount of the Medallion Signature Guarantee. (There are different levels of liability.) Since it's both an uncommon request (training / administrative costs go to waste) and increases their risk, it's doesn't make business sense as a general service.
Could be. But sometimes you need them. Sometimes Wells Fargo itself requires them, according to reports on this board. They used to charge around $25 for the service. Then they stopped charging. Then they stopped offering the service.

Since it sometimes takes 60 days or 6 months of activity before some banks will offer Medallions, I'm going to start shopping around for a Full Service brick and mortar bank now. Wells Fargo apparently isn't currently a full service bank, even if you are a brokerage customer as well. There may have been an event that sparked this change: some reporter should make a few inquiries. Where is the industry as a whole heading?
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anon_investor
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Re: Medallion signature guarantee

Post by anon_investor »

CompareContrast wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:43 am Wells Fargo stopped offering Medallion Signature Guarantees in 2021, except for wealth management customers and even then you have to go to a special branch. Wells Fargo does offer Endorsement Guarantees, which is suppose to work for Treasury Direct's form 5511.

Bank of America appears to have taken down its medallion pages: google (and DuckDuckGo) links have gone dead. I've had to acquire a Medallion sporadically over the years; sometimes fees have been charged, sometimes they've done it for free. I guess I'll be looking around for a brick/mortar which provides this service. Some reporter should figure out what's happening here.

This website provides an interesting tip: "Check with the banks that you have credit card accounts with. If they have local branches, see if they will do one for you."
The site for BoA still comes up for me:
https://www.bankofamerica.com/signature ... guarantee/
CompareContrast
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Re: Medallion signature guarantee

Post by CompareContrast »

Update: Here's a summary of medallion policies as of August 2022.

Wells Fargo offers regular signature guarantees, but not Medallion signature guarantees.

Schwab offers medallions via their backoffice for securities going to and from Schwab only. TD Ameritrade (now owned by Schwab) has similar policies.

Bank of America in contrast offers medallions except for securities going from their (Merrill) brokerage, provided you have had an account with them or Merril for at least 6 months. I take if if you want to send securities into their brokerage, well they will offer a medallion. They don't provide medallions for powers of attorney or business accounts. (Thanks to anon_investor for the link - B of A was blocking my VPN.)


Reddit reports restrictions on Medallions from Chase. "I went to my local Chase bank and was told that they only provide Medallion Guaranteed stamp for redeeming a security (ie. redeeming a bond). They won't provide the stamp just for opening an treasury direct account. They also don't have the Signature Guaranteed stamp and only has the Medallion Guaranteed stamp." (I was able to work with Wells Fargo's sig guarantee stamp and Treasury Direct - after examining the Treasury Direct form.) https://www.reddit.com/r/Bogleheads/com ... anteed_or/

In the same thread, reddit reports that Union Bank and Capital One provide sig guarantees for treasury direct transactions.

Citibank provides medallions after you've had your account open for 30 days.


I'm sympathetic to risk management considerations. But I want a full service bank. One of the weird things about this procedure is that the far less powerful notary signature requires your thumbprint in California, while a Medallion only requires a picture ID. Admittedly notary requirements vary by state: some states don't even require the notary public to keep journal. https://www.nationalnotary.org/notary-b ... humbprints

Anyway, I opine that if a responsible financial institution is concerned about its liability exposure, they should lobby for better procedures. None of that has happened: we know this because there are no articles about burdensome Medallion requirements and the like. I see from wikipedia that the Medallion system was established in 1992 by the SEC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medallion ... _guarantee
drzzzzz
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Re: Medallion signature guarantee

Post by drzzzzz »

Fidelity did a signature/medallion signature for us for Treasury direct power of attorney forms
unmesh
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Re: Medallion signature guarantee

Post by unmesh »

After failing to get a Medallion Guarantee from any of my Financial Institutions for a change of bank at Treasury Direct, I went to Star One Credit Union for a Signature Guarantee which they were happy to offer. The person that signed it seemed to be familiar with the Treasury form and I'm keeping fingers crossed that they will accept it.
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anon_investor
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Re: Medallion signature guarantee

Post by anon_investor »

drzzzzz wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 6:18 pm Fidelity did a signature/medallion signature for us for Treasury direct power of attorney forms
Did you have to schedule and appointment or did you just walk in.
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HueyLD
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Re: Medallion signature guarantee

Post by HueyLD »

anon_investor wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:47 pm
drzzzzz wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 6:18 pm Fidelity did a signature/medallion signature for us for Treasury direct power of attorney forms
Did you have to schedule and appointment or did you just walk in.
Pandemic has caused many changes and it is best to call Fido’s office near your home first.

They may or may not accept walk-in clients. They may or may not do medallion signature guarantee for companies other than Fidelity.

And your local office may make an exception for you because you are such a “deserving” client.
TwstdSista
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Re: Medallion signature guarantee

Post by TwstdSista »

We needed MSGs in order to merge our Fidelity accounts when the husband and I first got married - makes sense. (the total combined account value was over $100k)

Our local credit union took care of it for us.
drzzzzz
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Re: Medallion signature guarantee

Post by drzzzzz »

anon_investor wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:47 pm
drzzzzz wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 6:18 pm Fidelity did a signature/medallion signature for us for Treasury direct power of attorney forms
Did you have to schedule and appointment or did you just walk in.
We just walked in - the branch is quiet and the person there handled it quickly without an appointment, but I think calling and checking about setting up an appointment makes sense especially since only one or two individuals in an office are usually able to provide the guarantee.
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somewhatentertained
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Re: Medallion signature guarantee

Post by somewhatentertained »

We had to get Medallion Signature Guarantees last year when my late father's shares at Computershare were transferred to my mother. Most bank employees had never heard of it, Wells Fargo gave us the runaround at several branches until someone finally determined they no longer offer it. We got it done through eSignatureGuarantee.com. It was expensive but much less time consuming than the dead-ends at my mother's banking institutions. I am hoping she can get the shares out of Computershare into her brokerage without more guarantees.
bzcat
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Re: Medallion signature guarantee

Post by bzcat »

Yikes, anyone else who was curious... eSignatureGuarantee.com charges $149 per stamp.

I'll keep getting my at my local credit union, thanks.
GAAP
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Re: Medallion signature guarantee

Post by GAAP »

bzcat wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:16 pm Yikes, anyone else who was curious... eSignatureGuarantee.com charges $149 per stamp.

I'll keep getting my at my local credit union, thanks.
Some credit unions require that you have a history of being their client -- they won't do walk-ins from non-clients, and they may even refuse people who haven't been clients long enough (a year or more).

If you have some form of local banking, it makes sense to have it with an institution that provides the service. If you don't have that access, then it makes sense to organize your situation such that you won't need the service. For most people, the likely need comes via inheritance -- and you may be able to eliminate that need for your heirs, depending upon your estate plan.
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Wrench
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Re: Medallion signature guarantee

Post by Wrench »

GAAP wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 1:19 pm
bzcat wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:16 pm Yikes, anyone else who was curious... eSignatureGuarantee.com charges $149 per stamp.

I'll keep getting my at my local credit union, thanks.
Some credit unions require that you have a history of being their client -- they won't do walk-ins from non-clients, and they may even refuse people who haven't been clients long enough (a year or more).

If you have some form of local banking, it makes sense to have it with an institution that provides the service. If you don't have that access, then it makes sense to organize your situation such that you won't need the service. For most people, the likely need comes via inheritance -- and you may be able to eliminate that need for your heirs, depending upon your estate plan.
Trouble is, it is hard to "organize your situation" ahead of time. A few years ago I needed a MSG to transfer from Fidelity into a 403B (that has an attractive stable value fund). Maybe Fidelity has changed that requirement now, but I had no idea that was required then until they asked for it. More recently, my recently widowed mother-in-law required a MSG to move shares from Computershare that her late husband had acquired in a company savings plan. Again, we had no idea and I'm sure he didn't either. When it is required and when it isn't seems like a little bit of a crap shoot. I suggest that it might be prudent to maintain a local brick and mortar bank account that provides this service just in case, unless you have a local brokerage office (e.g. Fidelity) that will do it for you.

Wrench
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