Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
User avatar
Topic Author
bostondan
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:21 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by bostondan »

I found some older topics about this, but the market seems to have changed a bit since the prior posts.

I recently moved to a new condo and the electricity bill is much higher than I have had in the past. It's not terrible, around $230, but it's substantially higher than our previous similar sized unit.

I've tried using the Kil-a-watt meter with limited success. It basically shows me all my appliances uses an expected amount of KWh, and I haven't figured out how I get to $230 of usage.

I've been considering installing the Sense energy monitor (sense.com), but I've also seen a fair number of poor reviews about how it has difficulty identifying appliances despite the fact that it advertises the ability to do that. There are several other similar devices on Amazon that also have mediocre reviews.

Does anybody have experience with whole-home energy monitoring? Any recommendations for a simple product that works reliably and provides adequate insight into usage?

Thanks!
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel
barnaclebob
Posts: 5586
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by barnaclebob »

Those systems with the current clamps in your electrical box may not be able to determine individual appliances correctly but they should give you a good idea of your energy usage throughout the day. From there you can narrow it down to whats eating up your energy.
psteinx
Posts: 5801
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:24 pm

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by psteinx »

1) You should compare KwH usage, *NOT* $$$ cost.

2) Did you significantly change geographic location? Utility provider? (OK, the latter would affect rates but shouldn't affect usage, in any significant way. Still...)

3) Are you comparing within the same season? Summer usage, in much of the country, can be a LOT higher than winter.

4) Get a feel for baseline usage. Find your electric meter. Figure out how to convert the dials/spins/etc to actual usage. Turn off things you use SOMETIMES (TV, oven, etc.), and see what your baseline usage is. Then try turning off baseline items, progressively. This may include setting the thermostat to a level where the A/C isn't going, unplugging your fridge for a bit, etc. Note that some items only use electricity occasionally, but use a lot on average (like an A/C system that cycles on and off), so your measurement periods may need to be somewhat longer so you can get accurate averages.

Hopefully this should give you some kind of feel for where the main usage is coming from...
Last edited by psteinx on Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
surfstar
Posts: 2853
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by surfstar »

Have you looked into your Utility's website?

Here, So Cal Edison, gives pretty useful information with your online account. You could see when turning on an electric oven, etc.
I used the kill a watt and that was helpful. With our previous fridge, cleaning all the dust off the coils resulted in dollars per month less usage. Immediate and observable.

All electric?

A/C and heat are the two big ones of course.

Hopefully you can turn off all HVAC systems overnight and establish a baseline load and see if it is out of whack or not. Fridge + internet, etc that is always on should be quite low.
User avatar
lthenderson
Posts: 8525
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:43 am
Location: Iowa

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by lthenderson »

psteinx wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:16 pm 1) You should compare KwH usage, *NOT* $$$ cost.
+1

Our electrical utility recently requested to be allowed to raise our per KwH rate by 25%. Until it is reviewed and approved by the state utility board however, they can and have raised our rates by 12.5% until they get a ruling. Accordingly, my electrical bills have been noticeably higher ever since though my KwH usage is about the same.
DetroitRick
Posts: 1488
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:28 am
Location: SE Michigan

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by DetroitRick »

I've got decent monitor directly through my electric utility (wifi device connecting to my outside smart meter). I've had it for maybe 3-4 years, and they introduced it a few years after they switched us to smart meters in December 2011. It was originally free as part of a trial program, now $1/mo. Includes physical device and app support.

It's been a great tool, but is now giving me diminished returns simply because I've been using it for so long. It's not as detailed in providing source measurements as what you described - my system splits real-time energy use into 3 pieces: Always-on, Fridge, Other. Those are quite accurate. But since it is real-time, I can easily monitor the exact impact of any additional electrical appliance anyway. As it turns out, for us, it's all A/C, heat, stove and fridge, in that order. The app has gotten better over the past year, more useful in terms of history, budgeting (I don't bother), and suggestions. That app improvement made the difference between merely interesting and being really useful. So, it's helped us cut usage a bit by simply making us more mindful. Like I said, I'm now ambivalent about keeping it, but would appreciate the info in the future with a new house, new hvac, or new appliances, etc. But the geek side of me will likely keep it.

My details: mid-west climate, high-eff gas furnace w/ dc motor, single-stage a/c, 7-yr-old fridge, smaller house.
psteinx
Posts: 5801
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:24 pm

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by psteinx »

lthenderson wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:27 pm
psteinx wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:16 pm 1) You should compare KwH usage, *NOT* $$$ cost.
+1

Our electrical utility recently requested to be allowed to raise our per KwH rate by 25%. Until it is reviewed and approved by the state utility board however, they can and have raised our rates by 12.5% until they get a ruling. Accordingly, my electrical bills have been noticeably higher ever since though my KwH usage is about the same.
Although if you have T.O.D. (time of day) billing, then purely measuring your KwH usage may give you an incomplete picture, too...
User avatar
RickBoglehead
Posts: 7877
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:10 am
Location: In a house

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by RickBoglehead »

DetroitRick wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:50 pm I've got decent monitor directly through my electric utility (wifi device connecting to my outside smart meter). I've had it for maybe 3-4 years, and they introduced it a few years after they switched us to smart meters in December 2011. It was originally free as part of a trial program, now $1/mo. Includes physical device and app support.

It's been a great tool, but is now giving me diminished returns simply because I've been using it for so long. It's not as detailed in providing source measurements as what you described - my system splits real-time energy use into 3 pieces: Always-on, Fridge, Other. Those are quite accurate. But since it is real-time, I can easily monitor the exact impact of any additional electrical appliance anyway. As it turns out, for us, it's all A/C, heat, stove and fridge, in that order. The app has gotten better over the past year, more useful in terms of history, budgeting (I don't bother), and suggestions. That app improvement made the difference between merely interesting and being really useful. So, it's helped us cut usage a bit by simply making us more mindful. Like I said, I'm now ambivalent about keeping it, but would appreciate the info in the future with a new house, new hvac, or new appliances, etc. But the geek side of me will likely keep it.

My details: mid-west climate, high-eff gas furnace w/ dc motor, single-stage a/c, 7-yr-old fridge, smaller house.
We have the same (DTE). With a free app, we can see kWh usage by hour, although it's retroactive (i.e. I can see Monday's data late on Tuesday). I can pay for real time data if I want it, requires a $1.99 adapter that I have to plug in and use electricity! :oops:

I had it on a trial before they charged, and returned it. Then it was $.99 a month, now it's $1.99, not $1.00, unless you're using an old one. I got tired of being awarded "medals", and being told I was "doing great", when I had done nothing. Similar to their letters showing that I was using a lot more electricity than other condos in our area - we have a big house, not a condo... :shock:

The app is great because I can see for example when it rained heavily at our cottage and the sump pump in the yard ran, because my kWh went up that hour. I can also see our PHEV impact. If I wanted to isolate something, I'd have to have the status quo and put on that item for an hour (smallest increment), then turn it off, then wait until tomorrow afternoon to see. Or pay for the premium service.

I used Kill-O-Watt to figure out usage, and then it's simple math to figure out cost. That's how I knew to go to time-of-day rate for our future PHEV that was late in arriving, and discovered we saved money (peak is 11AM - 7PM Monday - Friday) without even having the PHEV. Then when we got it, we set it to charge from 7:01PM until it's done, around 2AM.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, EV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
livesoft
Posts: 86076
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:00 pm

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by livesoft »

I'd start with turning off anything that use electricity including the refrigerator (it'll be OK for a few hours) and watching your meter. Get a battery-powered headlamp if you need light.

If the meter is running when you have everything powered off, then you have to figure that out. I am aware of someone who bought a house and had outrageously unexpectedly high electricity bills until they discovered that the driveway heater (to melt snow) was left on by the previous owners. Another culprit is the heater in the icemaker of the fridge (you didn't think those ice cubes got detached by force did you?).

For a comparison, I have 3000 sq ft+ McMansion in hot/humid South Texas which needed a bit of air conditioning in August. I just had a record bill for electricity: $180. In a winter month, the electric bill runs about $35 to $45.
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.
psteinx
Posts: 5801
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:24 pm

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by psteinx »

livesoft's post provides specifics.

OP doesn't say where he/she is, nor how big the condo is, but for typical condo sizes, assuming 1+ shared walls, and assuming the month in question wasn't especially hot (i.e. big A/C usage), I would say that $230 seems high.

If it's the first bill for a new place, does it include any "startup" type charges, or possibly some leftover amount from the previous occupant or from the OP's previous location?
User avatar
RickBoglehead
Posts: 7877
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:10 am
Location: In a house

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by RickBoglehead »

livesoft wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:06 pm I'd start with turning off anything that use electricity including the refrigerator (it'll be OK for a few hours) and watching your meter. Get a battery-powered headlamp if you need light.

If the meter is running when you have everything powered off, then you have to figure that out. I am aware of someone who bought a house and had outrageously unexpectedly high electricity bills until they discovered that the driveway heater (to melt snow) was left on by the previous owners. Another culprit is the heater in the icemaker of the fridge (you didn't think those ice cubes got detached by force did you?).

For a comparison, I have 3000 sq ft+ McMansion in hot/humid South Texas which needed a bit of air conditioning in August. I just had a record bill for electricity: $180. In a winter month, the electric bill runs about $35 to $45.
That $180 is due to very low rates. If we ran AC full out in August (we end up at our cottage and set home AC high), it would run roughly $10 per day for just the A/C (ask me how I know). This was based on our old rates before time of day. We currently pay peak rate of 24 cents per kWh, and off peak rate of 13 cents. If we weren't on the time of day plan, we would be paying closer to 16 cents for all our usage.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, EV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 17158
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

Do you have the same utility and weather as before (are you in Boston)? Same square footage? Same level of insulation?

I recently upgraded my solar and storage, so was completely on the grid for a couple of months. The retail cost of electricity was (no pun intended) shocking.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
User avatar
FrugalInvestor
Posts: 6214
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:20 pm

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by FrugalInvestor »

Look at the items that consume the majority of your electricity first. A/C would likely be right at the top of that list. Then things like electric water heater, electric stove/oven or electric dryer. Light bulbs are fairly minimal individually but add up when many bulbs are burning, especially if they're old incandescents. The other things are usually not a huge part of your bill may be worth analyzing once you've looked at the big stuff.
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify. Then ignore the noise!
User avatar
indexfundfan
Posts: 3962
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:21 am
Contact:

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by indexfundfan »

I think Sense is overpriced. It claims to use machine learning to isolate an appliance's usage but that is not an easy problem to solve reliably.

I bought and installed the open source IoTaWatt (IoTaWatt.com) instead. You can add up to 13 sensors to monitor 13 different circuits. I found that it had very good accuracy.
My signature has been deleted.
DetroitRick
Posts: 1488
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:28 am
Location: SE Michigan

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by DetroitRick »

RickBoglehead wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:01 pm
We have the same (DTE). With a free app, we can see kWh usage by hour, although it's retroactive (i.e. I can see Monday's data late on Tuesday). I can pay for real time data if I want it, requires a $1.99 adapter that I have to plug in and use electricity! :oops:
Yup, same program here, DTE Insight, except I DO still have real-time monitoring with that bridge device at that $1.00 price. Just checked to make sure, in fact. My "Energy Bridge" device is about 3 years old. My last bill shows the "Insight Bridge Charge with Tax" of $1.05 (so $0.99 + 6%). They just started with the charge with the July bill (no notice for us beta testers I guess), so I presume I can expect a hike to $1.99 soon. :moneybag
User avatar
Topic Author
bostondan
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:21 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by bostondan »

psteinx wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:16 pm 1) You should compare KwH usage, *NOT* $$$ cost.

2) Did you significantly change geographic location? Utility provider? (OK, the latter would affect rates but shouldn't affect usage, in any significant way. Still...)
I stupidly did not save any old electric bills so I'm not entirely sure, and I can't seem to access them anymore on the Eversource website.

We have moved from Boston to an adjacent suburb. Our kWh price is supposed to be around $0.11 currently (not counting delivery charges), which I think is similar to our previous rate. We don't have any major difference in appliances, other than an electric stove. I hate to admit it, but we don't use it all that much (frequently eat at work or buy food) so I can't imagine the stove accounts for the entire increase.
psteinx wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:16 pm 3) Are you comparing within the same season? Summer usage, in much of the country, can be a LOT higher than winter.
Yes, same seasons, and our previous condo had bills in the $60-$100 range. We never had any bills higher than that.

Thanks for your thoughts!
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel
ARoseByAnyOtherName
Posts: 1000
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:03 am

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by ARoseByAnyOtherName »

livesoft wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:06 pm I'd start with turning off anything that use electricity including the refrigerator (it'll be OK for a few hours) and watching your meter. Get a battery-powered headlamp if you need light.

If the meter is running when you have everything powered off, then you have to figure that out. I am aware of someone who bought a house and had outrageously unexpectedly high electricity bills until they discovered that the driveway heater (to melt snow) was left on by the previous owners. Another culprit is the heater in the icemaker of the fridge (you didn't think those ice cubes got detached by force did you?).

For a comparison, I have 3000 sq ft+ McMansion in hot/humid South Texas which needed a bit of air conditioning in August. I just had a record bill for electricity: $180. In a winter month, the electric bill runs about $35 to $45.
What is your cost per kWh?
User avatar
Atomic
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:14 pm

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by Atomic »

I've had this product for about a decade. It works well and I like to monitor it. Install was a bit challenging.
http://www.theenergydetective.com/

edit; for a condo - distance to your electric box may matter.
User avatar
Topic Author
bostondan
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:21 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by bostondan »

Atomic wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:22 pm I've had this product for about a decade. It works well and I like to monitor it. Install was a bit challenging.
http://www.theenergydetective.com/

edit; for a condo - distance to your electric box may matter.
Looks like a very comprehensive system, but more expensive and a bit more complicated than some of the other options. I hadn't come across this system before now.
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel
livesoft
Posts: 86076
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:00 pm

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by livesoft »

ARoseByAnyOtherName wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:16 pmWhat is your cost per kWh?
This was for 1705 kWh, so the math says about 10.6 cents/kWh.
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.
User avatar
Topic Author
bostondan
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:21 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by bostondan »

livesoft wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:50 pm
ARoseByAnyOtherName wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:16 pmWhat is your cost per kWh?
This was for 1705 kWh, so the math says about 10.6 cents/kWh.
I find it very misleading how Eversource advertises our prices. The website says 10.4 cents/kWh, but they don't point out that delivery charges more than double the cost.

We used 922 kWh last month with a total cost of $206.84, which comes out to an actual cost of around 22.4 cents/kWh.

I know there are ways to use alternative energy providers, but it always seems like a scam. Anybody have experience using them in the Boston area? Is it actually something worth looking into?
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel
ARoseByAnyOtherName
Posts: 1000
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:03 am

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by ARoseByAnyOtherName »

bostondan wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:05 pm
livesoft wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:50 pm
ARoseByAnyOtherName wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:16 pmWhat is your cost per kWh?
This was for 1705 kWh, so the math says about 10.6 cents/kWh.
I find it very misleading how Eversource advertises our prices. The website says 10.4 cents/kWh, but they don't point out that delivery charges more than double the cost.

We used 922 kWh last month with a total cost of $206.84, which comes out to an actual cost of around 22.4 cents/kWh.

I know there are ways to use alternative energy providers, but it always seems like a scam. Anybody have experience using them in the Boston area? Is it actually something worth looking into?
My bill is broken down into separate line items for distribution, generation, and transmission, along with a separate unit cost for each item. (There are a few other line items but these three are by far the bulk of the cost.) All told I pay about 20 cents/kWh.

My town has municipal power which is working out great for us so far. I find the ability to pick up the phone and talk directly to the chief engineer without much hassle to be very helpful (even if I only have to do it infrequently).
iamlucky13
Posts: 3527
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:28 pm
Location: Western Washington

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by iamlucky13 »

I've been thinking about getting a monitor for a while and have done some research, but hadn't found anything that was clearly exactly what I want.

Depending exactly how accurate you need to be, a monitor that only watches the mains and attempts to discriminate loads based on some form of profiling like Sense does might be sufficient. They should be able to fairly reliably characterize large loads that have consistent profiles, like a furnace, A/C, water heater, or dryer. Smaller loads may be more accurately measured with Kill-a-Watt and won't have nearly as large of an impact on your electric bill individually anyways.

The Energy Detective and Curb Home Energy monitor are two models that can be set up with additional current transformers to measure loads on individual circuits. These systems cost more and have a more complicated installation and setup. The Energy Detective has been around for a few years, and the user interface seemed the least polished, but it also is well documented, and they seem like they have decent data management, and a sort of modular expandability to quite a few circuits.

Curb seems to have the lowest price for a system designed with monitoring individual circuits in mind. Oddly, their current transformers for the mains are only rated at 100A, which can definitely be exceeded in homes with all electric heat. I asked them about it and they said in the instances that happens, there may be a loss of accuracy, but other than that, it's no issue. For some reason, they ignored my question about the maximum wire size the 100A CT's could fit around, which is part of the reason I haven't bought one yet.

Efergy offers a product in between that has a base installation intended to go on your mains, but they also offer a sub-circuit monitoring kit, and you can add up to five of them to their Engage system to monitor your more important individual circuits.

eGauge is a higher end system that seems to be popular with solar installers. It is also quite pricey.
User avatar
indexfundfan
Posts: 3962
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:21 am
Contact:

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by indexfundfan »

iamlucky13 wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:19 am I've been thinking about getting a monitor for a while and have done some research, but hadn't found anything that was clearly exactly what I want.

Depending exactly how accurate you need to be, a monitor that only watches the mains and attempts to discriminate loads based on some form of profiling like Sense does might be sufficient. They should be able to fairly reliably characterize large loads that have consistent profiles, like a furnace, A/C, water heater, or dryer. Smaller loads may be more accurately measured with Kill-a-Watt and won't have nearly as large of an impact on your electric bill individually anyways.

The Energy Detective and Curb Home Energy monitor are two models that can be set up with additional current transformers to measure loads on individual circuits. These systems cost more and have a more complicated installation and setup. The Energy Detective has been around for a few years, and the user interface seemed the least polished, but it also is well documented, and they seem like they have decent data management, and a sort of modular expandability to quite a few circuits.

Curb seems to have the lowest price for a system designed with monitoring individual circuits in mind. Oddly, their current transformers for the mains are only rated at 100A, which can definitely be exceeded in homes with all electric heat. I asked them about it and they said in the instances that happens, there may be a loss of accuracy, but other than that, it's no issue. For some reason, they ignored my question about the maximum wire size the 100A CT's could fit around, which is part of the reason I haven't bought one yet.

Efergy offers a product in between that has a base installation intended to go on your mains, but they also offer a sub-circuit monitoring kit, and you can add up to five of them to their Engage system to monitor your more important individual circuits.

eGauge is a higher end system that seems to be popular with solar installers. It is also quite pricey.
I had the TED5000 unit about 10 years ago in my previous home. Installation was somewhat tricky because it used the power line to transmit data. Occasionally there would be gaps in the data collected because data packets were dropped. The system would also hang and requires reboot occasionally. After about 3 or 4 years, the data collection unit crapped out and did not store data anymore (I suspect the flash memory turned bad). I wasn't impressed with its stability or reliability.

I was searching for energy monitoring systems a few months back and decided to get the IoTaWatt system ( http://www.iotawatt.com ). For less than $200, you get a system with a pair of 200A current transformers to measure the mains current. The data collection unit is right next to the panel and you access it via wifi. You can get additional current transformers for less than $10 a piece. The system accepts many different off-the-shelf CTs, which you can buy from Ebay to reduce the cost further. You can add up to a total of 14 CTs, so you can measure a lot of different circuits if you want. So far the system has been very stable. I haven't had the need to reboot it.

IotaWatt has an active discussion forum for users and the creator to discuss any issues.
Last edited by indexfundfan on Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
My signature has been deleted.
User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 17158
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

@indexfundfan, I was all set to purchase IotaWatt since they have large sensors (some of my cables are large), but since they’re out of stock on starter kits, decided to read some of the documentation. Maybe I haven’t had enough coffee yet, but it doesn’t seem to be that easy for a non-EE to grasp.

My setup is complicated (two different grid-tied PV installations, two 16kw batteries, 400A service, etc) and I was hoping to get an overall view of my production and consumption.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
02nz
Posts: 10508
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:17 pm

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by 02nz »

Are the bulbs LED? That makes a big difference.

Also, have you only received the first bill? Possible that it's covering more than one month.

Once you're no longer using the AC, that will also give you an indication of what's using up the electricity.
User avatar
Topic Author
bostondan
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:21 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by bostondan »

02nz wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:59 am Are the bulbs LED? That makes a big difference.

Also, have you only received the first bill? Possible that it's covering more than one month.

Once you're no longer using the AC, that will also give you an indication of what's using up the electricity.
Most of the bulbs are LED, but a handful are CFL. I'm not aware of any that are not one of those two types.

We have received 3 bills at this point and they have all been similarly high.
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel
User avatar
RickBoglehead
Posts: 7877
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:10 am
Location: In a house

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by RickBoglehead »

ARoseByAnyOtherName wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:40 pm My bill is broken down into separate line items for distribution, generation, and transmission, along with a separate unit cost for each item. (There are a few other line items but these three are by far the bulk of the cost.) All told I pay about 20 cents/kWh.

My town has municipal power which is working out great for us so far. I find the ability to pick up the phone and talk directly to the chief engineer without much hassle to be very helpful (even if I only have to do it infrequently).
Few people seem to grasp the concept above.

If I glance at my bill quickly, I see a much lower cost per kWh.
Then I see that if I went over a certain amount, I pay more.
Then I see distribution costs per kWh.
Then I see a bunch of other charges per kWh.
Might even see some flat rates that are not kWh related.

If one takes the total amount and divides by the actual kWh used, then you have a true kWh. My true rate last month was 16.3 cents. That is because 82% of my usage was at off peak rates.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, EV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
User avatar
indexfundfan
Posts: 3962
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:21 am
Contact:

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by indexfundfan »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:38 am @indexfundfan, I was all set to purchase IotaWatt since they have large sensors (some of my cables are large), but since they’re out of stock on starter kits, decided to read some of the documentation. Maybe I haven’t had enough coffee yet, but it doesn’t seem to be that easy for a non-EE to grasp.

My setup is complicated (two different grid-tied PV installations, two 16kw batteries, 400A service, etc) and I was hoping to get an overall view of my production and consumption.
I think the energy monitoring market somewhat caters to the "tech inclined" people, e.g. you understand the difference between kW and kWh, and between volts and amps. So I tend to agree with your observation. But I think this observation is true more or less with other systems as well.

I give very good marks for the IoTaWatt hardware and firmware. The IoTaWatt measured kWh each day matches perfectly with that provided by the utility (within the rounding limitation from the utility -- rounded to a whole kWh). It is also very stable, does not hang, as I mentioned previously.

However, the software part could use some work. It does not have its own dedicated app. To display all the fanciful graphs, you need to link it up to one of the third party data visualization tools. I haven't done this yet.

I think the system will cater to your setup. I notice they do sell 400A CTs. And there is a "online calculator" in their firmware. It lets you create new quantities, for example, you add the two PV generated values and call it "Total PV Power".
Last edited by indexfundfan on Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
My signature has been deleted.
User avatar
Topic Author
bostondan
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:21 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by bostondan »

RickBoglehead wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:27 am My true rate last month was 16.3 cents. That is because 82% of my usage was at off peak rates.
I don’t see anything about off-peak usage on my bill. Our electric meter is the old kind with dials. Does it need to be a newer meter to consider the time of electricity use?
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel
User avatar
indexfundfan
Posts: 3962
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:21 am
Contact:

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by indexfundfan »

bostondan wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:31 am
RickBoglehead wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:27 am My true rate last month was 16.3 cents. That is because 82% of my usage was at off peak rates.
I don’t see anything about off-peak usage on my bill. Our electric meter is the old kind with dials. Does it need to be a newer meter to consider the time of electricity use?
Yes, the TOU (time-of-use) meters generally have digital displays.
My signature has been deleted.
User avatar
RickBoglehead
Posts: 7877
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:10 am
Location: In a house

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by RickBoglehead »

bostondan wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:31 am
RickBoglehead wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:27 am My true rate last month was 16.3 cents. That is because 82% of my usage was at off peak rates.
I don’t see anything about off-peak usage on my bill. Our electric meter is the old kind with dials. Does it need to be a newer meter to consider the time of electricity use?
Your utility may, or may not, offer multiple rate plans. Go to their website and look. Ours does. Among them:

- Residential - normal rate
- EV (requires installation of an additional EV-dedicated electric meter) - despite buying a PHEV, we found that the cost to install a dedicated meter, plus a 240v line, plus a charger, made this never pay off. We charge overnight with a normal outlet, and on weeks. And the cost of electricity vs. gas right now makes electric not much cheaper anyway. Plus our car has a max range of 21 miles on electricity.
- Time of Day - we have this. Everything is off peak except 11AM - 7PM Monday through Friday. They simply reprogrammed the electric meter. Our analysis showed that before we did this, close to 80% of our usage fell in this time period. Some months it is close to 85% in the low rate period.
- SmartCurrents - Free Ecobee thermostat, and enrolled in Dynamic Peak.
- Dynamic Peak Pricing - insane program. Rate goes from off peak (4.9 cents base rate) to mid peak (8.6 cents base rate) to on peak (14.8 cents base rate), to critical peak. Critical peak is 95 cents per kWh, but would be rare they say.
- CoolCurrents - requires wiring A/C separately, they can cut power in 15 minute intervals during peak periods, up to 8 hours per 24 hours and up to 30 minutes per hour. You pay $1.95 to be in the program 5 months a year.
- SmartSavers - allows utility to raise temp up to 4 degrees when they need to during peak demand, and you can opt out of each time. You get nothing but entered in a contest for gift cards.
- Geothermal - combines time of day with seasonal rates and you must have a geothermal ground source heat pump system or a split system
- Onsite Electric Generation - you generate your own electricity via solar, wind, ...
- Outdoor Protective Lighting - they own, install, and maintain protective lighting, ...
- Senior citizen credit - 65 and over get $45 per year credit
- Water Heating Service rate - requires separately metered circuit

Warning - utility companies are always filing for rate changes, most often increases. So, when you analyze a rate plan, remember that it will change, perhaps more than annually. So what looked good last year may not be good this year.

Also, if you switch to a plan that varies rates during different times, can you really push your usage to the lower rate periods? We can. We do laundry after 7 at night, run the dishwasher after 7 at night, leave the upstairs at 77 until near bedtime before running the AC, charging the car after 7 at night, ...
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, EV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
Valuethinker
Posts: 49032
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by Valuethinker »

bostondan wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:53 pm I found some older topics about this, but the market seems to have changed a bit since the prior posts.

I recently moved to a new condo and the electricity bill is much higher than I have had in the past. It's not terrible, around $230, but it's substantially higher than our previous similar sized unit.

I've tried using the Kil-a-watt meter with limited success. It basically shows me all my appliances uses an expected amount of KWh, and I haven't figured out how I get to $230 of usage.

I've been considering installing the Sense energy monitor (sense.com), but I've also seen a fair number of poor reviews about how it has difficulty identifying appliances despite the fact that it advertises the ability to do that. There are several other similar devices on Amazon that also have mediocre reviews.

Does anybody have experience with whole-home energy monitoring? Any recommendations for a simple product that works reliably and provides adequate insight into usage?

Thanks!
1. I missed it, but is the square footage the same?

2. Do you have a greater length of outside walls?

3. I am assuming you heat with gas? Is your gas usage similar?

4. An old fridge would be one big delta. But we are talking a pre 2000 fridge, say. Say a pre 1992 fridge burns 2000 kwhr & a post 2008 fridge would burn c 600 kwhr (and would be bigger, too).

5. otherwise it could be some appliance (like a plasma screen TV) with an "instant on" feature

Your best bet is to get a Kill-o-watt meter from the utility (they often rent them) and test your big appliances

6. is your meter specific to your condo? And it could they have misattributed someone else's reading to your condo? That happens all the time, the meters are not properly recorded when the condos are built and you pay someone else's utility bills for years.

One way to check is to put on the dryer, say, and go down and see if the meter speeds up - ie run something with known high consumption and make sure it's your meter that responds.

7. in a condo there could be some problem with your air conditioning that is the result of an inefficiency for the whole building. Can you check with neighbors re charges? There's usually a notice board somewhere to post things, and these days there's often a Facebook or WhatsAp group.
Jack FFR1846
Posts: 18501
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:05 am
Location: 26 miles, 385 yards west of Copley Square

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

indexfundfan wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:43 pm I think Sense is overpriced. It claims to use machine learning to isolate an appliance's usage but that is not an easy problem to solve reliably.

I bought and installed the open source IoTaWatt (IoTaWatt.com) instead. You can add up to 13 sensors to monitor 13 different circuits. I found that it had very good accuracy.
I've spoken with the engineers at Sense back when they were in an incubator in Somerville. Their devices indeed figure out what appliance is drawing current and report that. I'm too cheap to spend $300 on something to figure out what's using electricity in my house, but would be confident that their device would do that. My company sells them ICs.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid
User avatar
indexfundfan
Posts: 3962
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:21 am
Contact:

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by indexfundfan »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:16 am
indexfundfan wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:43 pm I think Sense is overpriced. It claims to use machine learning to isolate an appliance's usage but that is not an easy problem to solve reliably.

I bought and installed the open source IoTaWatt (IoTaWatt.com) instead. You can add up to 13 sensors to monitor 13 different circuits. I found that it had very good accuracy.
I've spoken with the engineers at Sense back when they were in an incubator in Somerville. Their devices indeed figure out what appliance is drawing current and report that. I'm too cheap to spend $300 on something to figure out what's using electricity in my house, but would be confident that their device would do that. My company sells them ICs.
I am not saying that they are not attempting to do that. I'm saying that it is a difficult problem to solve reliably.

My understanding is that to be able to identify an appliance, we need an "electrical consumption fingerprint" -- waveform of current versus time. The traditional way of doing this is to use some pattern matching algorithm to match the current waveform to a set of predefined waveforms - if there is a match, then that appliance is running. With only one appliance running, the detection is relatively easy. But if you have a dozen of appliances running, the current waveform that Sense sees is the sum of all the currents. Now, this becomes not so easy.

I believe Sense is also using unsupervised machine learning algorithms to try to isolate previously unknown current waveforms, i.e. detect new appliances. To successfully run this algorithm, they need lots of data points. I think they are somewhat succeeding and somewhat failing, judging from the number of user complaints that Sense is not detecting / took a long time to detect their A/C, dryer, [insert your favorite appliance], etc.

Most of this work is in the firmware / software domain. The hardware aspect is relatively easy.
My signature has been deleted.
iamlucky13
Posts: 3527
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:28 pm
Location: Western Washington

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by iamlucky13 »

indexfundfan wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:21 am I was searching for energy monitoring systems a few months back and decided to get the IoTaWatt system ( http://www.iotawatt.com ). For less than $200, you get a system with a pair of 200A current transformers to measure the mains current. The data collection unit is right next to the panel and you access it via wifi. You can get additional current transformers for less than $10 a piece. The system accepts many different off-the-shelf CTs, which you can buy from Ebay to reduce the cost further. You can add up to a total of 14 CTs, so you can measure a lot of different circuits if you want. So far the system has been very stable. I haven't had the need to reboot it.

IotaWatt has an active discussion forum for users and the creator to discuss any issues.
Thanks. I remember coming across OpenEnergyMonitor a few years back. It was definitely less polished at the time. It looks like that project is still alive for those who want to maximize customization and extensibility. If I'm understanding what is mentioned in the Iotawatt forums right, iotawatt is a spinoff from that project.

I will definitely take a closer look at this.

You also reminded me one of my concerns about TED was the use of powerline communications.
User avatar
CAsage
Posts: 3539
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:25 pm

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by CAsage »

bostondan wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:05 pm We used 922 kWh last month with a total cost of $206.84, which comes out to an actual cost of around 22.4 cents/kWh.
I'm completely blown away here. What on earth are you powering in a condo that drains that much electricity? I have a plain old house, which has been retrofitted with LED/CFL everywhere, and I do tend to run around turning lights off in any room without people... but we run a fridge, microwave, do laundry, charge phones, use two computers, watch TV a couple hours night... and electricity use runs 150 kWh (best spring, no heat or A/C) to 250 kWh (that's a hot month, some afternoons A/C). I know running the A/C will easily spike it much higher, but I'm lucky with coast breezes at night. I am wondering whether you aren't paying for some outside lights, or a motor somewhere? Wow. Just wow.
Salvia Clevelandii "Winifred Gilman" my favorite. YMMV; not a professional advisor.
emoore
Posts: 676
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:16 pm

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by emoore »

CAsage wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:37 pm
bostondan wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:05 pm We used 922 kWh last month with a total cost of $206.84, which comes out to an actual cost of around 22.4 cents/kWh.
I'm completely blown away here. What on earth are you powering in a condo that drains that much electricity? I have a plain old house, which has been retrofitted with LED/CFL everywhere, and I do tend to run around turning lights off in any room without people... but we run a fridge, microwave, do laundry, charge phones, use two computers, watch TV a couple hours night... and electricity use runs 150 kWh (best spring, no heat or A/C) to 250 kWh (that's a hot month, some afternoons A/C). I know running the A/C will easily spike it much higher, but I'm lucky with coast breezes at night. I am wondering whether you aren't paying for some outside lights, or a motor somewhere? Wow. Just wow.
I'm blown away that you only use 150 to 250 kWh a month. That's awesome. I use around 750 in the winter and over 1000 in the summer. I have an electric stove and that uses a ton of energy.

As far as energy monitoring, I've been looking for the same thing. The monitoring I have with my solar system doesn't always track well to my electric bill especially the AC. I think it might be due to the energy saver switch that's on the AC. I think that allows the utility company to duty cycle the AC so maybe it bypasses the solar inverter monitoring system.
livesoft
Posts: 86076
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:00 pm

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by livesoft »

emoore wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:01 pmI'm blown away that you only use 150 to 250 kWh a month. That's awesome. I use around 750 in the winter and over 1000 in the summer. I have an electric stove and that uses a ton of energy.
We have gas heat, gas water heaters, gas dryer, so we used about 250 kWh/month Nov to Apr when we are not running the air conditioning.
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.
MathWizard
Posts: 6560
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:35 pm

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by MathWizard »

CAsage wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:37 pm
bostondan wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:05 pm We used 922 kWh last month with a total cost of $206.84, which comes out to an actual cost of around 22.4 cents/kWh.
I'm completely blown away here. What on earth are you powering in a condo that drains that much electricity? I have a plain old house, which has been retrofitted with LED/CFL everywhere, and I do tend to run around turning lights off in any room without people... but we run a fridge, microwave, do laundry, charge phones, use two computers, watch TV a couple hours night... and electricity use runs 150 kWh (best spring, no heat or A/C) to 250 kWh (that's a hot month, some afternoons A/C). I know running the A/C will easily spike it much higher, but I'm lucky with coast breezes at night. I am wondering whether you aren't paying for some outside lights, or a motor somewhere? Wow. Just wow.
I don't know my average KWh/month, but from

Code: Select all

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=97&t=3
the average house nearly as much as OP's usage:
How much electricity does an American home use?
In 2017, the average annual electricity consumption for a U.S. residential utility customer was 10,399 kilowatthours (kWh), an average of 867 kWh per month. Louisiana had the highest annual electricity consumption at 14,242 kWh per residential customer, and Hawaii had the lowest at 6,074 kWh per residential customer.
I'd check if you have an electric water heater, especially if you have a recirculating pump on it.
Heating water takes lots of electricity.

Since this is the summer, the A/C is the likely culprit. You may have an inefficient A/C unit.
Have someone crank the temp down in the house, and when the A/C comes on, see how fast the
meter spins.
4nursebee
Posts: 2664
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:56 am
Location: US

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by 4nursebee »

bostondan wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:53 pm I found some older topics about this, but the market seems to have changed a bit since the prior posts.

I recently moved to a new condo and the electricity bill is much higher than I have had in the past. It's not terrible, around $230, but it's substantially higher than our previous similar sized unit.

I've tried using the Kil-a-watt meter with limited success. It basically shows me all my appliances uses an expected amount of KWh, and I haven't figured out how I get to $230 of usage.

I've been considering installing the Sense energy monitor (sense.com), but I've also seen a fair number of poor reviews about how it has difficulty identifying appliances despite the fact that it advertises the ability to do that. There are several other similar devices on Amazon that also have mediocre reviews.

Does anybody have experience with whole-home energy monitoring? Any recommendations for a simple product that works reliably and provides adequate insight into usage?

Thanks!
What has changed since prior posts? I see nothing new compared to what we installed years ago

I favor something that goes on the main electric lines as they enter the panel box. Ours goes wirelessly to a handheld thing. We went around the house, turned everything on and wrote down what it consumed. HVAC oven and dryer were heavy users.

What seer is your HVAC? What was your old unit? How do you dry clothes? How is insulation now versus before?

If you rent just live with what you have
Pale Blue Dot
User avatar
TimeRunner
Posts: 1939
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:23 pm
Location: Beach-side, CA

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by TimeRunner »

Turn everything off (unplug if necessary) everything in your condo and check your meter to see if you're still using electricity - daytime, and then once around 9pm. I know of a duplex unit where the laundry room, garage, and exterior lighting was on one unit's meter because there was no meter for any electrical stuff that was shared by two units. Does your condo complex have a pool? :twisted:
One cannot enlighten the unconscious. | "All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine." -Jeff Spicoli
iamlucky13
Posts: 3527
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:28 pm
Location: Western Washington

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by iamlucky13 »

4nursebee wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:59 pm I favor something that goes on the main electric lines as they enter the panel box. Ours goes wirelessly to a handheld thing. We went around the house, turned everything on and wrote down what it consumed. HVAC oven and dryer were heavy users.
It's a lot easier to understand overall usage from ongoing monitoring than from a one-time power draw survey. HVAC varies a lot seasonally, for example. Oven has a high power draw, but very, very low duty cycle, so total energy use is relatively low.
User avatar
Topic Author
bostondan
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:21 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by bostondan »

TimeRunner wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:17 pm Turn everything off (unplug if necessary) everything in your condo and check your meter to see if you're still using electricity - daytime, and then once around 9pm. I know of a duplex unit where the laundry room, garage, and exterior lighting was on one unit's meter because there was no meter for any electrical stuff that was shared by two units. Does your condo complex have a pool? :twisted:
I'm actually wondering about something like this. There are three units in the building, but the utility room is our building and I think a lot of building stuff passes through only our unit. For example, I think the lighting to the common areas might go through our panel. It's an old and very confusing utility room.

We use oil as our primary source of heat, but there are various pumps in the utility room (I'm not even sure what they do, but they intermittently turn on), and I'm wondering if we are paying for whatever electricity they use. Perhaps the Sense monitor will help determine that.
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel
User avatar
Topic Author
bostondan
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:21 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by bostondan »

Valuethinker wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:04 am 1. I missed it, but is the square footage the same?
Previous square footage was 2000 sqft and current is 2700 sqft. We have window AC units and basically only use the ones in the bedroom (with door closed - bedroom actually smaller now than before), and kitchen (similar size or smaller). So I don't think the square footage increase should have made a big difference given the locations of AC use.
Valuethinker wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:04 am 2. Do you have a greater length of outside walls?
Yes, probably. Was previously sandwiched between two brownstones, now we are the one at the end.
Valuethinker wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:04 am 3. I am assuming you heat with gas? Is your gas usage similar?
Heat with oil. Previously used gas and it was a little cheaper.
Valuethinker wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:04 am 4. An old fridge would be one big delta. But we are talking a pre 2000 fridge, say. Say a pre 1992 fridge burns 2000 kwhr & a post 2008 fridge would burn c 600 kwhr (and would be bigger, too).
Fridge is brand new. Just bought a new one a few months ago.
Valuethinker wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:04 am 5. otherwise it could be some appliance (like a plasma screen TV) with an "instant on" feature

Your best bet is to get a Kill-o-watt meter from the utility (they often rent them) and test your big appliances
Tried that and couldn't find any major power hogs, but maybe I didn't keep it connected long enough. I think I actually did see an instant-on feature for my OLED TV that I left on because it was only using 3-4W and that didn't seem significant enough to be the culprit. That's why I'm thinking the whole home monitor might be helpful.
Valuethinker wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:04 am 6. is your meter specific to your condo? And it could they have misattributed someone else's reading to your condo? That happens all the time, the meters are not properly recorded when the condos are built and you pay someone else's utility bills for years.

One way to check is to put on the dryer, say, and go down and see if the meter speeds up - ie run something with known high consumption and make sure it's your meter that responds.
Starting to wonder about this issue. I think the Sense monitor should help me get an idea of whether we're paying for someone else's electricity too.
Valuethinker wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:04 am 7. in a condo there could be some problem with your air conditioning that is the result of an inefficiency for the whole building. Can you check with neighbors re charges? There's usually a notice board somewhere to post things, and these days there's often a Facebook or WhatsAp group.
Our neighbors aren't terribly interested in improving things, so I'm not sure how much luck I'll have with that. They're perfectly nice, but content with stuff being in disarray.
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel
User avatar
scorcher31
Posts: 583
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:13 pm

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by scorcher31 »

So just for comparison sake we used about 890 KW in August in NJ. We have a gas (stove, hot water heater and dryer) and all LED lights and LED TVs. Our house is only 2200 square foot. So to me your usage seems fine. Wall AC units aren't that efficient and it's been pretty warm recently so your usage could be spot on. We keep our home at a constant 73 all day because my wife works from home and have a 16 seer ac.

Our lowest usage in the dead of winter with a gas furnace is still about 350KW

If you are worried that something outside your condo is leaching your electricity unplug all your appliances, turn everything that uses electricity off, lights, ac probably even the refrigerator for a short time. If your dials are still moving you have a problem.
User avatar
Topic Author
bostondan
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:21 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by bostondan »

scorcher31 wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:18 am So just for comparison sake we used about 890 KW in August in NJ. We have a gas (stove, hot water heater and dryer) and all LED lights and LED TVs. Our house is only 2200 square foot. So to me your usage seems fine. Wall AC units aren't that efficient and it's been pretty warm recently so your usage could be spot on. We keep our home at a constant 73 all day because my wife works from home and have a 16 seer ac.

Our lowest usage in the dead of winter with a gas furnace is still about 350KW

If you are worried that something outside your condo is leaching your electricity unplug all your appliances, turn everything that uses electricity off, lights, ac probably even the refrigerator for a short time. If your dials are still moving you have a problem.
Thanks for the comparison. Perhaps we're not that far off. I think I'll still install a home energy monitor at this point only because I'm curious, but there may not be all that much room for savings.
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel
shorty313
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon May 16, 2016 8:43 am

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by shorty313 »

bostondan wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:30 am
scorcher31 wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:18 am So just for comparison sake we used about 890 KW in August in NJ. We have a gas (stove, hot water heater and dryer) and all LED lights and LED TVs. Our house is only 2200 square foot. So to me your usage seems fine. Wall AC units aren't that efficient and it's been pretty warm recently so your usage could be spot on. We keep our home at a constant 73 all day because my wife works from home and have a 16 seer ac.

Our lowest usage in the dead of winter with a gas furnace is still about 350KW

If you are worried that something outside your condo is leaching your electricity unplug all your appliances, turn everything that uses electricity off, lights, ac probably even the refrigerator for a short time. If your dials are still moving you have a problem.
Thanks for the comparison. Perhaps we're not that far off. I think I'll still install a home energy monitor at this point only because I'm curious, but there may not be all that much room for savings.
We have a similar size house in NJ with gas heating, water, and cooking - our low in the spring is about 375kwh and high in summer 965kwh, for another point of reference. We keep our AC at about 76, but our unit is pretty old, about 17 years and a lower seer. Maybe 12 seer?
User avatar
Topic Author
bostondan
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:21 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by bostondan »

Well, after ordering the Sense monitor, it turns out it won't fit inside my electrical panel. I was looking forward to giving it a try. Very anticlimactic.

Instead I just tried harder to find the source of the higher usage and I discovered the bulk of it is our dehumidifier in the basement. It is using about $40 per month in electricity. It's an energy star model recommended on Wirecutter: https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-70-pt-De ... /300734668

I had forgotten that we didn't have a dehumidifier in our last place because we did not have a basement, whereas we do now. When we first moved in the basement was muggy and we had bugs, whereas we don't have either issue anymore, so I'll just have to accept the higher electric bill and continue using the dehumidifier.
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel
VaR
Posts: 760
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: Home energy/electricity monitoring?

Post by VaR »

bostondan wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:52 am For example, I think the lighting to the common areas might go through our panel. It's an old and very confusing utility room. .
Does the building have a separate electrical panel for common elements at all? You can test this by turning off breakers in your panel to see if the lighting in the common areas shuts off when you kill the power in your panel.
bostondan wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:36 pm Well, after ordering the Sense monitor, it turns out it won't fit inside my electrical panel. I was looking forward to giving it a try. Very anticlimactic.
Does the Sense unit not physically fit in the panel or do you just not have two open breaker spots? There could possibly be a solution to the latter issue. I have Sense and am happy with it. I suspect a bulk of customers are perfectly happy with it and there aren't really that many unhappy customers posting in the community forums, accounting for the fact that I'd expect unhappy customers would be more likely to post than the satisfied ones. That said there are definitely some problem devices that might affect your ability to get major actionable data, though that's not the case for me.

I guess you could also give the IoTaWatt.com device a try. From looking at it, it sits outside the panel and feeds the CT clamps into the panel via a punchout, I guess. For those that have it, can you elaborate on how all the wires for the CT clamps are routed into the panel? Also, did you have to install a new outlet next to your panel or was there one conveniently nearby?
Post Reply