Any audiophiles on this forum?
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
What a never ending pit but it’s fun. I’ve been wavering lately on whether I want to continue having separated or simplify with a Naim Uniti Nova. Current setup:
Pre Amp/DAC - Emotiva Stealth DC-1 bought used around $300
Amps - Emotiva XPA-1L class A/B mono blocks - bought used around $700 for the pair
Speakers - JBL L100t3 - bought used $550 for pair
Streamer - Raspberry pi with Hifiberry Digi
Server - intel NUC running Roon ROCK
Love my current setup, but I am getting the itch to replace DAC with Denafrips Terminator 2. I’m not completely sure, but I believe my current DAC is the weakpoint in the system.
Pre Amp/DAC - Emotiva Stealth DC-1 bought used around $300
Amps - Emotiva XPA-1L class A/B mono blocks - bought used around $700 for the pair
Speakers - JBL L100t3 - bought used $550 for pair
Streamer - Raspberry pi with Hifiberry Digi
Server - intel NUC running Roon ROCK
Love my current setup, but I am getting the itch to replace DAC with Denafrips Terminator 2. I’m not completely sure, but I believe my current DAC is the weakpoint in the system.
- Doom&Gloom
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
I have a pair of Marantz HD-880 speakers in my living room. I've had them since 1977 or 1978 when Consumers Reports had them top-rated. IIRC they were the second extravagant purchase I ever made. I still enjoy listening to music on them, but I confess having added a couple of subwoofers primarily for movies and TV. I sometimes think that something in the world must be out of whack to be streaming music to those vintage speakers via a Raspberry Pi with a Hifiberry DAC. Those HD-880s have weathered the years better than my ears have.squirrel1963 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:46 pmMaggies are surprisingly tough to drive, maybe it's very low impedance, not sure. Tube power amps do much better in this regard, but really what you need is lots of clean power.Dave55 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:07 pmI love your old system, the Maggies and Audio Research Amps. In my office I have a pair of B&W's bookshelf speakers and I am driving those with an NAD C-368 Integrated Amp, 80 watts per. Been happy with it for the past 4 years. In my living area I have there KEF LS 50 Wireless 2.squirrel1963 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:15 pm In 1994-2002 I had a system I really liked:
Magnepan speakers
Audio Research Power amp
Tube preamp
McIntosh MR67 tube tuner
Separate D/A converter for audio CDs
Then my tinnitus got worse, kids were born so I lost interest because with tinnitus you don't really get to enjoy audiophile sound anymore.
Now I have a 5.1 system, B&W speakers and integrated BK preamp/audioprocessor/poweramp.
I really love the quality of BK electronics but it's unable to decode some of the new audio formats.
I'm looking for a reasonably priced substition, so it'd be great to hear recommendations from fellow audiophiles.
Dave
Nad and KEF are great. As you might imagine I grew up with lots of "classical" vintage stuff. Old NAD are still very good and old Marantz are awesome. KEF are great speakers.
I absolutely loved the McIntosh tuner, but McIntosh stopped servicing them long time ago, tube replacements are very difficult if not impossible. The new tubes made today are very small in variety and many NoS stocks have been depleted. I just gave it away as I couldn't bear the pain of see this Beauty unused. Hopefully someone will be able to take good care.
New technology is awesome, the audio quality of even an iPhone on headphones is incredible considering its all integrated circuits and there is no room for big capacitors to stabilize power supply etc etc, but the beauty and sound of vintage Maggies, AR, McIntosh, KEF, NAD and Marantz is really difficult to beat, or maybe I just like the way they sound because they were my first serious audiophile stuff.
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
I don't know, but if that is the case you are not alone, there are lot of engineers (specially software engineers) who are also audiophiles like meDoom&Gloom wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:13 pmI have a pair of Marantz HD-880 speakers in my living room. I've had them since 1977 or 1978 when Consumers Reports had them top-rated. IIRC they were the second extravagant purchase I ever made. I still enjoy listening to music on them, but I confess having added a couple of subwoofers primarily for movies and TV. I sometimes think that something in the world must be out of whack to be streaming music to those vintage speakers via a Raspberry Pi with a Hifiberry DAC. Those HD-880s have weathered the years better than my ears have.squirrel1963 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:46 pmMaggies are surprisingly tough to drive, maybe it's very low impedance, not sure. Tube power amps do much better in this regard, but really what you need is lots of clean power.Dave55 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:07 pmI love your old system, the Maggies and Audio Research Amps. In my office I have a pair of B&W's bookshelf speakers and I am driving those with an NAD C-368 Integrated Amp, 80 watts per. Been happy with it for the past 4 years. In my living area I have there KEF LS 50 Wireless 2.squirrel1963 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:15 pm In 1994-2002 I had a system I really liked:
Magnepan speakers
Audio Research Power amp
Tube preamp
McIntosh MR67 tube tuner
Separate D/A converter for audio CDs
Then my tinnitus got worse, kids were born so I lost interest because with tinnitus you don't really get to enjoy audiophile sound anymore.
Now I have a 5.1 system, B&W speakers and integrated BK preamp/audioprocessor/poweramp.
I really love the quality of BK electronics but it's unable to decode some of the new audio formats.
I'm looking for a reasonably priced substition, so it'd be great to hear recommendations from fellow audiophiles.
Dave
Nad and KEF are great. As you might imagine I grew up with lots of "classical" vintage stuff. Old NAD are still very good and old Marantz are awesome. KEF are great speakers.
I absolutely loved the McIntosh tuner, but McIntosh stopped servicing them long time ago, tube replacements are very difficult if not impossible. The new tubes made today are very small in variety and many NoS stocks have been depleted. I just gave it away as I couldn't bear the pain of see this Beauty unused. Hopefully someone will be able to take good care.
New technology is awesome, the audio quality of even an iPhone on headphones is incredible considering its all integrated circuits and there is no room for big capacitors to stabilize power supply etc etc, but the beauty and sound of vintage Maggies, AR, McIntosh, KEF, NAD and Marantz is really difficult to beat, or maybe I just like the way they sound because they were my first serious audiophile stuff.
I've also done mainstream things (mainstream to us audiophiles like streaming music out of a small desktop with DVD player and audio card via digital link to the BK receiver.
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
I assume you meant that lamp cord was the wrong name for 10 gauge electrical wire.Northern Flicker wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:52 pmNo idea. 12 gauge lamp cord is also fine for speaker wire, but when you read an article on an audiophile web site or blog site extolling the virtues of very expensive speaker wire, 10 gauge will let you rest easy in the knowledge that your speaker wire already is overspec'd so that you aren't missing anything.Chip wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:24 amWho has a 3000 watt lamp that requires 10 gauge lamp cord?Northern Flicker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:51 pm For speaker cables, you don’t need anything more than 10 gauge lamp cord available at your local hardware store (up to 50 feet in length, but shorter is better). If you are not happy with the resulting sound, the speaker wires are quite unlikely to be the component needing an upgrade.
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
EDIT: self-deleted comment, likely not actionable business idea (albeit was not meant to be taken in any serious way), likely out of scope.
LMP | Liability Matching Portfolio | safe portfolio: TIPS ladder + I-bonds + Treasuries | risky portfolio: US stocks / US REIT / International stocks
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
I agree with the above post. It’s all about the music. Equipment is a means to that end. Cost for most of the BH crowd likely not an issue.cacophony wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:42 pm My audio journey has led to the following conclusions:
The most important elements for good sounding audio reproduction are:
1. Speakers
2. Placement of speakers
3. Acoustics of room
Everything else just needs to be good enough so as to not to be a problem. (Blind test: https://matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_ppec.htm)
Good speakers come down to:
1. Quality of design (cabinet, crossover, part selection)
2. Quality of parts/materials
Quality of design just takes one talented individual working in their garage. Quality of parts/materials is largely driven by the parts budget.
There are many excellent direct to consumer speaker companies that spend ~50% of the cost on parts/materials. They can do this in part because they don't spend money on things like marketing and retailer cut.
The problem with companies like Bose (and I'm sure Sonos to a certain extent as well) is that:
1. Their designs are primarily driven by aesthetics and not sound quality. The physics of good speaker design is often in direct conflict with something that is small and pretty.
2. They probably spend less then 10% of the speaker cost on parts, so you end up with low quality components relative to what you spent.
Many audiophiles are just audio bogleheads. They want as much of their money as possible to go into what matters to them: audio quality. It's not about spending a lot, it's about value.
Hvac
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
In the past I've gone through a lot of equipment and I find car audio especially interesting and difficult from a sound staging perspective. These days I simply stream audio from Apple Music to my JBL charge 5 and call it a day. I still have an older home audio setup in the man cave that's rarely used. One day I may return to my passion with a better setup.
Light weight baby!
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
I recently picked up a lot of cassette equipment. Does that make me an audiophobe?
Never really liked the phone-music or mp3 player experience, though it is easier to compile your songs that way. Less personal and less satisfying in my opinion.
Also (and this is true of many hobbies) the equipment is always secondary to the thing being recorded itself. When I was doing a lot of photography, I saw so many people racing to get the "best gear" instead of figuring out how to capture the most interesting photos, which has more to do with travel, choice of subject, composition, emotion, intent behind the work, etc. With music, I think you get more "return on investment" by spending your time searching out truly great (and sometimes little-known) music than you do in improving your audio system beyond the mid-range.
But yes, if you can do both truly great music and a great system it can be awesome. Some music was meant to be played on state-of-the-art systems. Other music doesn't need it at all.
Never really liked the phone-music or mp3 player experience, though it is easier to compile your songs that way. Less personal and less satisfying in my opinion.
Also (and this is true of many hobbies) the equipment is always secondary to the thing being recorded itself. When I was doing a lot of photography, I saw so many people racing to get the "best gear" instead of figuring out how to capture the most interesting photos, which has more to do with travel, choice of subject, composition, emotion, intent behind the work, etc. With music, I think you get more "return on investment" by spending your time searching out truly great (and sometimes little-known) music than you do in improving your audio system beyond the mid-range.
But yes, if you can do both truly great music and a great system it can be awesome. Some music was meant to be played on state-of-the-art systems. Other music doesn't need it at all.
45% Total Stock Market | 52% Consumer Staples | 3% Short Term Reserves
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
They are kind of similar in that the price to performance ratio is really quite poor. I will say that I like Sonos sound better than Bose. Bose speakers are tuned to have really loud bass above all else, the mids and highs are muddy to me. Loud bass is not necessarily good bass, good quality sounding bass will sound fast, articulate, and detailed. Bass from most speaker systems (especially Bose) will be loud but lack detail and sound what I would describe as loose. Bose has now trained people to believe that bass that is not loud does not sound good. Loud bass from a Bose speaker is not accurate to what it would sound like if you heard the music in person.honduranhurricane wrote: ↑Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:08 pm Not an audiophile but curious when I saw all the Sonos comments. Is Sonos better than Bose? Or is that not a proper comparison?
You can setup a 2 channel system for less than $1,000 that will blow away any Bose or Sonos system. You can also get in wall and ceiling speakers from brands like Focal, Paradigm and Martin Logan that are much better as well if you want distributed audio in your home. You will need to purchase a bit more equipment to do so but it will be a night and day difference in quality.
You can spend over $100,000 on just a pair of speakers or amplifiers for example, this hobby can be very expensive. I know people who spent $100,000 on their system and people look at them like they are crazy. But really they use their system for 10+ years and get a good return on investment, better than someone who spends $80,000 on a car every 3 to 5 years.
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
Audio cassettes are pretty awful, soundwise.homebuyer6426 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:47 am I recently picked up a lot of cassette equipment. Does that make me an audiophobe?
Before the pandemic, I needed to digitize a few dozen cassettes (not music - mostly interviews recorded in the 1970s). I found a perfect, inexpensive dongle to connect the cassette deck to a USB port on my iMac and figured out how to use Garage Band to receive the digital version. I was ready to go ony to discover that my decent, low mileage 1990s Denon cassette deck wouldn't work. I asked friends, looked at thrift shops - no cassette decks, let alone good ones. The only new ones available were over $100 and junk - not reliable on speed or playing all cassette formulations (chromium dioxide particularly). Fortunately I found a repair guy who changed replaced the belts and made the necessary adjustments. It cost $130 - about the same cost as one of the poor quality new decks. The digitization project went really well.
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
I will (slightly) disagree on Bose; they don't really have low bass, but a boomy mid bass, leading to the saying:sasquatch12 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:11 pmThey are kind of similar in that the price to performance ratio is really quite poor. I will say that I like Sonos sound better than Bose. Bose speakers are tuned to have really loud bass above all else, the mids and highs are muddy to me. Loud bass is not necessarily good bass, good quality sounding bass will sound fast, articulate, and detailed. Bass from most speaker systems (especially Bose) will be loud but lack detail and sound what I would describe as loose. Bose has now trained people to believe that bass that is not loud does not sound good. Loud bass from a Bose speaker is not accurate to what it would sound like if you heard the music in person.honduranhurricane wrote: ↑Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:08 pm Not an audiophile but curious when I saw all the Sonos comments. Is Sonos better than Bose? Or is that not a proper comparison?
You can setup a 2 channel system for less than $1,000 that will blow away any Bose or Sonos system. You can also get in wall and ceiling speakers from brands like Focal, Paradigm and Martin Logan that are much better as well if you want distributed audio in your home. You will need to purchase a bit more equipment to do so but it will be a night and day difference in quality.
You can spend over $100,000 on just a pair of speakers or amplifiers for example, this hobby can be very expensive. I know people who spent $100,000 on their system and people look at them like they are crazy. But really they use their system for 10+ years and get a good return on investment, better than someone who spends $80,000 on a car every 3 to 5 years.
"Got no highs,
Got no lows,
Must be Bose."
Disclosure: I do have a Bose Soundbar in a little used system. It's okay.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
Always been kind of a "budget" cinephile, with "not-quite-flagship" Denon AVRs (Onkyo in years past) and Polk speakers in several rooms. But the last few years, I've really been getting into high-res music in the desktop/headphone space. I'm sure that has absolutely nothing to do with transitioning to full-time WFH.
I started with a Monolith THX-788 DAC/AMP and Focal Clear headphones. Audio comes from Roon ROCK running on an Intel NUC, which pulls together my local library of ~1,000 albums along with my Qobuz subscription. This year I've upgraded to Focal Utopia headphones and a Schiit Folkvangr amp (TEN TUBES! No output transformer or capacitor, just pure tubey goodness), still using the 788 as a DAC only. Looking to go the multibit DAC route in the near future, likely with a Schiit Yggdrasil or Bifrost 2/64. That will likely be "endgame" for me for quite a while.
My mobile rig is a FiiO BTR-5 bluetooth DAC/AMP running a pair of Moondrop Blessing2 In-ear Monitors. It connects to my phone via LDAC, which is about as close to wired quality as we can currently get via bluetooth.
My preferred genres are--oddly enough--Hard Rock/Metal/Metalcore, and Jazz.
I started with a Monolith THX-788 DAC/AMP and Focal Clear headphones. Audio comes from Roon ROCK running on an Intel NUC, which pulls together my local library of ~1,000 albums along with my Qobuz subscription. This year I've upgraded to Focal Utopia headphones and a Schiit Folkvangr amp (TEN TUBES! No output transformer or capacitor, just pure tubey goodness), still using the 788 as a DAC only. Looking to go the multibit DAC route in the near future, likely with a Schiit Yggdrasil or Bifrost 2/64. That will likely be "endgame" for me for quite a while.
My mobile rig is a FiiO BTR-5 bluetooth DAC/AMP running a pair of Moondrop Blessing2 In-ear Monitors. It connects to my phone via LDAC, which is about as close to wired quality as we can currently get via bluetooth.
My preferred genres are--oddly enough--Hard Rock/Metal/Metalcore, and Jazz.
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
Damn.... Some of yall post are the true definition of an audiophiles....
And here I thought I was getting crazy spending $325 on a gaming headset
And here I thought I was getting crazy spending $325 on a gaming headset
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
Boglehead principles are not "frugality above all else", that would be MMM. The most relevant BH principal at play here is prioritizing saving and investing to reach your financial goals. Once that is achieved, spending on things or experiences that bring happiness should be encouraged, lest one become the "richest person in the graveyard". Including match, our monthly 401k contributions are about that much, aside from separate saving for college, vacations, other expenses, charitable giving, and taxable investments that aren't earmarked for anything in particular. So we're in good shape there IMO. Could we do more? Sure. Do we need to? No.
I've no interest in multimillion-dollar homes, boats, 5- and 6-figure watches, country club memberships, firearm collections, etc, etc, that many of our members have. But I don't begrudge them those things either, assuming that they bring joy. If they don't bring joy, that's a different conversation altogether.
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
Oh, no judgement here. None of my business what you spend your money on and it sounds like you have your financial "ducks in a row". I just had no idea there were headphones that costed that much.lazydavid wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:09 pmBoglehead principles are not "frugality above all else", that would be MMM. The most relevant BH principal at play here is prioritizing saving and investing to reach your financial goals. Once that is achieved, spending on things or experiences that bring happiness should be encouraged, lest one become the "richest person in the graveyard". Including match, our monthly 401k contributions are about that much, aside from separate saving for college, vacations, other expenses, charitable giving, and taxable investments that aren't earmarked for anything in particular. So we're in good shape there IMO. Could we do more? Sure. Do we need to? No.
I've no interest in multimillion-dollar homes, boats, 5- and 6-figure watches, country club memberships, firearm collections, etc, etc, that many of our members have. But I don't begrudge them those things either, assuming that they bring joy. If they don't bring joy, that's a different conversation altogether.
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
Yeah I think in pretty much any niche/hobby/passion, any of us would be pretty surprised how much "botique" items can cost. And frighteningly enough, one can go a lot deeper down the rabbit hole with Headphones if one wishes. Apologies if I came off defensive.stoptothink wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:26 am Oh, no judgement here. None of my business what you spend your money on and it sounds like you have your financial "ducks in a row". I just had no idea there were headphones that costed that much.
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
*shrug* I'm able to thoroughly enjoy music from a cassette.
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- TomatoTomahto
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
Heck, just the other day I saw power cords for sale at $23,500 for 3 meters! That's right, the power cord you plug into the wall to bring AC to your gear.lazydavid wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:11 amYeah I think in pretty much any niche/hobby/passion, any of us would be pretty surprised how much "botique" items can cost. And frighteningly enough, one can go a lot deeper down the rabbit hole with Headphones if one wishes. Apologies if I came off defensive.stoptothink wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:26 am Oh, no judgement here. None of my business what you spend your money on and it sounds like you have your financial "ducks in a row". I just had no idea there were headphones that costed that much.
There are a gazillion reasons why expensive power cords are snake oil, but I find it interesting how powerful the placebo effect is such that some people will swear that the difference was a revelation. There's one born every minute.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
This exchange took me back to High School economics and a discussion of Giffen goods. How I remembered this I don't know. High School was a looooooong time ago.TomatoTomahto wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:43 amHeck, just the other day I saw power cords for sale at $23,500 for 3 meters! That's right, the power cord you plug into the wall to bring AC to your gear.lazydavid wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:11 amYeah I think in pretty much any niche/hobby/passion, any of us would be pretty surprised how much "botique" items can cost. And frighteningly enough, one can go a lot deeper down the rabbit hole with Headphones if one wishes. Apologies if I came off defensive.stoptothink wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:26 am Oh, no judgement here. None of my business what you spend your money on and it sounds like you have your financial "ducks in a row". I just had no idea there were headphones that costed that much.
There are a gazillion reasons why expensive power cords are snake oil, but I find it interesting how powerful the placebo effect is such that some people will swear that the difference was a revelation. There's one born every minute.
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
PC setup for gaming and music: PC USB ->RME ADI-2 -> Schiit Lyr 3 (tube ) -> Dan Clark Audio Ether 2's.
Love the Ether2's, so lightweight and comfy to wear with great sound. Tried Focal Clears but they just didn't sound as good as the Ether 2. But headphone choices are very YMMV, everyone has their own preferences.
TV setup: New Denon X3700h AVR with 12 year old Emotiva Amp running Mini Strata's in a 5.1 setup. Just got the Denon AVR to get a zone 2 (2nd output) so I could connect a headphone amp for my wife (she is a little hard of hearing, so uses the close captioning usually). With a zone 2, I can use our speakers to watch TV/movies and she can wear the headphones and still hear everything. Much better for her.
Love the Ether2's, so lightweight and comfy to wear with great sound. Tried Focal Clears but they just didn't sound as good as the Ether 2. But headphone choices are very YMMV, everyone has their own preferences.
TV setup: New Denon X3700h AVR with 12 year old Emotiva Amp running Mini Strata's in a 5.1 setup. Just got the Denon AVR to get a zone 2 (2nd output) so I could connect a headphone amp for my wife (she is a little hard of hearing, so uses the close captioning usually). With a zone 2, I can use our speakers to watch TV/movies and she can wear the headphones and still hear everything. Much better for her.
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
I don't remember if it was in a class or not, but I remember some mentor explaining to me that "no matter how good it smells, you can't sell a $2 bottle of perfume."BrooklynInvest wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:17 amThis exchange took me back to High School economics and a discussion of Giffen goods. How I remembered this I don't know. High School was a looooooong time ago.TomatoTomahto wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:43 amHeck, just the other day I saw power cords for sale at $23,500 for 3 meters! That's right, the power cord you plug into the wall to bring AC to your gear.lazydavid wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:11 amYeah I think in pretty much any niche/hobby/passion, any of us would be pretty surprised how much "botique" items can cost. And frighteningly enough, one can go a lot deeper down the rabbit hole with Headphones if one wishes. Apologies if I came off defensive.stoptothink wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:26 am Oh, no judgement here. None of my business what you spend your money on and it sounds like you have your financial "ducks in a row". I just had no idea there were headphones that costed that much.
There are a gazillion reasons why expensive power cords are snake oil, but I find it interesting how powerful the placebo effect is such that some people will swear that the difference was a revelation. There's one born every minute.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
I have a very nice desk audiophile setup: Senn HD800 balanced to Senn HDVA600 Amp, SMSL SU-8S DAC for DSD and 192khz/24bit Symphony Music
Also I have a Woo Audio WA3 Tube amp SE connected a HD6XX for Vocal and Cello with very mellow mid frequency SQ
All connected to a iMac with USB, streaming Tidal, Amazon HD and Qobuz.
Also I have a Woo Audio WA3 Tube amp SE connected a HD6XX for Vocal and Cello with very mellow mid frequency SQ
All connected to a iMac with USB, streaming Tidal, Amazon HD and Qobuz.
Last edited by WhiteMaxima on Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
I've had some Sennheiser's in the past, but clearly not those.lazydavid wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:11 amAnd frighteningly enough, one can go a lot deeper down the rabbit hole with Headphones if one wishes. Apologies if I came off defensive.stoptothink wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:26 am Oh, no judgement here. None of my business what you spend your money on and it sounds like you have your financial "ducks in a row". I just had no idea there were headphones that costed that much.
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
Harumph.
Can anyone explain how and why high resolution recordings are superior? Most recorded music is CD resolution or worse. Does up sampling achieve better sound? Upsampling mostly occurs after recording at 44 or 48k. Think about 50s jazz.
I might be missing out on recent music recorded (not playback) at 192k that I’m not aware of. To my mind, audiophile recordings sound good but these recordings aren’t mainstream artists. What is DSD all about? Transcoding from PCM or something? Clearly I’m old school (also old.) So is my cochlea. I’m sincerely flummoxed.
And yes, I consider myself an audiophile.
Hvac
Can anyone explain how and why high resolution recordings are superior? Most recorded music is CD resolution or worse. Does up sampling achieve better sound? Upsampling mostly occurs after recording at 44 or 48k. Think about 50s jazz.
I might be missing out on recent music recorded (not playback) at 192k that I’m not aware of. To my mind, audiophile recordings sound good but these recordings aren’t mainstream artists. What is DSD all about? Transcoding from PCM or something? Clearly I’m old school (also old.) So is my cochlea. I’m sincerely flummoxed.
And yes, I consider myself an audiophile.
Hvac
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
Lot to unpack here, so let's take 1 or 2 things at a time. The concept of resolution is dramatically different between analog and digital recordings, and up through about the mid-90s or so, nothing was recorded digitally. Music being digitized from analog master tapes is not "upsampled", it is just "sampled". For a high-quality master, generally a 24/96 sampling will look more like the original analog waveform than a 16/44 one will. If the master is of middling quality or has degraded, there may be no difference capturing it at a higher resolution and bit depth vs. lower ones. There is also no advantage to converting a 16/44 or 16/48 digital recording to 24-bit or 92/192Khz.
As has always been the case, some recordings were mixed and mastered well, and some weren't. Hi-res files played back on a very resolving system will tend to accentuate this, such that great recordings sound truly amazing, and mediocre or poor ones become completely unlistenable. And sometimes it's not even the masters fault. I found one otherwise-lovely jazz recording that I had to turn off because my system made it far too obvious that the linkage on the piano's sustain pedal needed to be oiled.
DSD is a different way of representing music digitally, using a 1-bit resolution and an exceedingly high bit rate. Its unfortunately far too complicated to explain in detail here, but conceptually each successive bit represents the difference between the current sample and the previous one, which was taken one six-millionth of a second (for DSD128) previously. PCM on the other hand, tries to represent what the sound looks like "now", and takes those samples 44-192,000 times per second. DSD was created to serve the SACD physical media format, and has seen a very slight resurgence as digital files in recent years, as bandwidth and disk space have become effectively unlimited.
PCM can be transcoded to DSD. Doing this at the file level would probably not be worthwhile, as you'd get a massively larger file that sounds pretty much the same as the original one. I do transcode from PCM to DSD on the fly using software on my computer, because my DAC is a 1-bit Delta Sigma design (very common), and I find it performs very slightly better when receiving a bitstream closer to its native format, rather than doing the conversion itself. When I eventually replace it with a multibit DAC, I will stop doing this.
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
I was, and still am, a wannabe audiophile, but I didn’t have the means when I was young and couldn’t justify the expense when I did acquire the means. Back in the late 1970’s I too had double large Advent’s stacked, but I didn’t know the trick of placing the top ones upside down. I was driving them with an AR amplifier and spinning vinyl on my AR XA turntable. A while later I bought a Marantz 2440 Quadradial 4 rear channel amplifier and placed the Advent’s in the four corners of my living room. The AR amplifier was replaced (darn, I wished that I had kept it and had it repaired) and the large Advents needed reforming, so I pretty much gave them away. The large Advent's had replaced my AR-2x speakers that I bought with the AR amp and turntable in 1970. I did give away the AR-2x speakers to a brother in law, who promptly ruined the oiled walnut finish on them. Who knows what happened to them later?TomatoTomahto wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 3:23 pmI didn’t know people still did that. Years ago, I lived in a hovel, with my tubed amp and “Double Advents.” I think it was “The Absolute Sound,” or perhaps “Stereophile” that told the world about this inexpensive, more than the sum of the parts, revelation. I kept those “Double Advents” through some amplifier changes and source changes until I stumbled onto Acoustats, all 7’11” of them, anchored top and bottom to my 8’ ceilings.Chip wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 1:47 pmI'm not an audiophile but I still have and use my Advents from the 70s. Had to refoam the woofers but they still sound great. I saw something a while back online where people were taking 4 Advents and stacking them. Normal stereo setup but two speakers high on each side, with the top speaker in each stack placed upside down.
The people who did it swore by this setup. Sort of like how we all think our investment allocations are much better than everyone else's.
I still have the AR-XA, but it is back in its original box in a closet. My current non-audiophile system consists of a Sony STR-D350Z receiver, an AR-XB turntable with it’s original Shure M91-ED cartridge with a new aftermarket stylus, a Magnavox NB500MG9 BluRay player for CD’s, and Bose AM5 series 1 speakers that were purchased used some time in the late 1980’s. I still have a dual cassette player/recorder that hasn’t been used in a couple of decades. There is also a Echo Dot connected to the Sony to stream music from Amazon HD music and also a Harman Kardon Adapt Bluetooth receiver connected to the Sony to play music from my iPhone.
Lastly, up in the attic in its original box is an Advent 201 cassette deck, the one with one level meter.
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
If you have Nakamichi or Harman/Kardon (Advent too!) cassette decks, you can have audiophile reproduction with the medium. I have 5 Naks (!) and 1 H/K. There's also a Sony, but it's no where near the quality of the Nak or the H/K. For casual (as opposed to critical) listening Nakamichi cassette recordings are close to the CD and equal to LP's as far as frequency response. Signal to Noise ratio is better of course, with CD as would be the extreme high end.homebuyer6426 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:47 am I recently picked up a lot of cassette equipment. Does that make me an audiophobe?
However, convenience reigns lately and most CD's have been ripped in the FLAC (never mp3 or other lossy codecs) format to a server and streamed to 5 (Slim Devices/Logitech Squeezebox) players around the house to amps and speakers in various rooms. There's a Nakamichi available also, but they get less use as one can control things for hours without getting up from the listening spot!
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
I have a 3.1 setup. All three speakers are Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 bookshelf speakers. The sub is a 10” sealed unit from SVS. Driven by a Denon receiver. All-in about $2000 and I’ve been quite happy with the results.
Source is Apple Music lossless via an Apple TV.
Source is Apple Music lossless via an Apple TV.
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
The one big drawback I have noticed (at least in myself and my friends) in the switch to computer files for music is that it's quite easy for things to get abandoned and lost... old computers, old hard drives, etc. I had a big music collection, enough to fill up a hard drive and I don't really know where it is anymore. But I can dig out a cassette made by a family member 35 years ago and it still plays great, full of songs rare enough that you can't find most by searching the lyrics.tzydzy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 15, 2022 1:47 am However, convenience reigns lately and most CD's have been ripped in the FLAC (never mp3 or other lossy codecs) format to a server and streamed to 5 (Slim Devices/Logitech Squeezebox) players around the house to amps and speakers in various rooms. There's a Nakamichi available also, but they get less use as one can control things for hours without getting up from the listening spot!
45% Total Stock Market | 52% Consumer Staples | 3% Short Term Reserves
- Doom&Gloom
- Posts: 5398
- Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:36 pm
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
Three of my Squeezebox players have been replaced with PiCore Players as they died. The only original Logitech devices I still have are a Boom and a Duet Controller. All of my CDs are ripped to FLAC as well. What a jewel Logitech had. And what a shame that they discontinued it.tzydzy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 15, 2022 1:47 am However, convenience reigns lately and most CD's have been ripped in the FLAC (never mp3 or other lossy codecs) format to a server and streamed to 5 (Slim Devices/Logitech Squeezebox) players around the house to amps and speakers in various rooms. There's a Nakamichi available also, but they get less use as one can control things for hours without getting up from the listening spot!
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
Agreed. Thankfully my Boom integrates perfectly with Roon, so I can still use it when the mood strikes. Of course I have the brightness of the OLED screen cranked all the way down.Doom&Gloom wrote: ↑Thu Sep 15, 2022 10:28 am Three of my Squeezebox players have been replaced with PiCore Players as they died. The only original Logitech devices I still have are a Boom and a Duet Controller. All of my CDs are ripped to FLAC as well. What a jewel Logitech had. And what a shame that they discontinued it.
- Doom&Gloom
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
LOL! Same here, but it usually resets itself from 0 (completely off) to 1. Annoying as heck, but not a biggie.lazydavid wrote: ↑Thu Sep 15, 2022 11:21 amAgreed. Thankfully my Boom integrates perfectly with Roon, so I can still use it when the mood strikes. Of course I have the brightness of the OLED screen cranked all the way down.Doom&Gloom wrote: ↑Thu Sep 15, 2022 10:28 am Three of my Squeezebox players have been replaced with PiCore Players as they died. The only original Logitech devices I still have are a Boom and a Duet Controller. All of my CDs are ripped to FLAC as well. What a jewel Logitech had. And what a shame that they discontinued it.
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
Monday was tube day for me - all my tubes came in on the same day:
2 - 5963 GE NOS ribbed plates rebranded Westinghouse mid-1960's
2 - 12AU7A RCA clear top
4- KT120
5- 6550
Hopefully I won't need tubes for a while - I have 3 working sets now for my amps that I just rebuilt.
So yeah kind of an audiofool.
2 - 5963 GE NOS ribbed plates rebranded Westinghouse mid-1960's
2 - 12AU7A RCA clear top
4- KT120
5- 6550
Hopefully I won't need tubes for a while - I have 3 working sets now for my amps that I just rebuilt.
So yeah kind of an audiofool.
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
lazydavid wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:42 amLot to unpack here, so let's take 1 or 2 things at a time. The concept of resolution is dramatically different between analog and digital recordings, and up through about the mid-90s or so, nothing was recorded digitally. Music being digitized from analog master tapes is not "upsampled", it is just "sampled". For a high-quality master, generally a 24/96 sampling will look more like the original analog waveform than a 16/44 one will. If the master is of middling quality or has degraded, there may be no difference capturing it at a higher resolution and bit depth vs. lower ones. There is also no advantage to converting a 16/44 or 16/48 digital recording to 24-bit or 92/192Khz.
As has always been the case, some recordings were mixed and mastered well, and some weren't. Hi-res files played back on a very resolving system will tend to accentuate this, such that great recordings sound truly amazing, and mediocre or poor ones become completely unlistenable. And sometimes it's not even the masters fault. I found one otherwise-lovely jazz recording that I had to turn off because my system made it far too obvious that the linkage on the piano's sustain pedal needed to be oiled.
DSD is a different way of representing music digitally, using a 1-bit resolution and an exceedingly high bit rate. Its unfortunately far too complicated to explain in detail here, but conceptually each successive bit represents the difference between the current sample and the previous one, which was taken one six-millionth of a second (for DSD128) previously. PCM on the other hand, tries to represent what the sound looks like "now", and takes those samples 44-192,000 times per second. DSD was created to serve the SACD physical media format, and has seen a very slight resurgence as digital files in recent years, as bandwidth and disk space have become effectively unlimited.
PCM can be transcoded to DSD. Doing this at the file level would probably not be worthwhile, as you'd get a massively larger file that sounds pretty much the same as the original one. I do transcode from PCM to DSD on the fly using software on my computer, because my DAC is a 1-bit Delta Sigma design (very common), and I find it performs very slightly better when receiving a bitstream closer to its native format, rather than doing the conversion itself. When I eventually replace it with a multibit DAC, I will stop doing this.
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
I prefer vintage gear and do like listening to tunes. Not sure either qualifies me as an audiophile.
Marantz 2285b and Luxman L110 rotate in the main system paired with ADS L880 speakers.
Luxman 5L15 paired with Braun L710 speakers in the bedroom.
Marantz 2285b and Luxman L110 rotate in the main system paired with ADS L880 speakers.
Luxman 5L15 paired with Braun L710 speakers in the bedroom.
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
Monty at Xiph.org has developed audio codecs in the past, so he knows all things digital audio. Here are two links that hopefully clear up what upsampling / oversampling is about and why it's used. Other digital audio concepts such as bit depth and dither are covered in the second link.
24/192 Music Downloads... and why they make no sense
Digital Show & Tell
Usually 'remastered' releases sound louder, not necessarily better. This is known as dynamic range compression - there's less difference between the softest and loudest sound in the recording. Here's an eye-opening test - The 16 bit vs 8 bit Blind Listening Test
My preference is to try to find the version of an album with the highest dynamic range. You can browse the Dynamic Range Database for this kind of info. Currently, vinyl releases tend to have higher dynamic range. It's a possible reason why people prefer to listen to LPs over a digital format.
The one thing that unites all human beings, regardless of age, gender, religion, economic status or ethnic background, is that, deep down inside, we ALL believe that we are above-average drivers.
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
Klipsch Forte IV
Schiit Ragnarok 2
Benchmark DAC 1 (balanced out)
Sonos Port
Marantz CD (rarely used) as a drive
Panamax Power Conditioner for turn on/off
Primarily Apple Music or Amazon Music.
Schiit Ragnarok 2
Benchmark DAC 1 (balanced out)
Sonos Port
Marantz CD (rarely used) as a drive
Panamax Power Conditioner for turn on/off
Primarily Apple Music or Amazon Music.
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
Your set up sounds amazing! I was similar, content with my sennheiser HD 650s and beyerdynamics for a while. I made the mistake of going to an audio store that had a sampling of focal, Dan Clark, meze and Audeze. Man that was an experience and I couldn't stop thinking about those. The utopias were great but I was drawn to the Meze sound so I went with the Empyrean, then had to upgrade my amp and Linear Tube Audio was local so I went there. They have a great shop in Takoma Park (outside DC). Ended up with the MZ3 and a DAC. I've been very content but do always want to try the different headphones. And I saw that a new version of Utopias are coming out!lazydavid wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:44 pm Always been kind of a "budget" cinephile, with "not-quite-flagship" Denon AVRs (Onkyo in years past) and Polk speakers in several rooms. But the last few years, I've really been getting into high-res music in the desktop/headphone space. I'm sure that has absolutely nothing to do with transitioning to full-time WFH.
I started with a Monolith THX-788 DAC/AMP and Focal Clear headphones. Audio comes from Roon ROCK running on an Intel NUC, which pulls together my local library of ~1,000 albums along with my Qobuz subscription. This year I've upgraded to Focal Utopia headphones and a Schiit Folkvangr amp (TEN TUBES! No output transformer or capacitor, just pure tubey goodness), still using the 788 as a DAC only. Looking to go the multibit DAC route in the near future, likely with a Schiit Yggdrasil or Bifrost 2/64. That will likely be "endgame" for me for quite a while.
My mobile rig is a FiiO BTR-5 bluetooth DAC/AMP running a pair of Moondrop Blessing2 In-ear Monitors. It connects to my phone via LDAC, which is about as close to wired quality as we can currently get via bluetooth.
My preferred genres are--oddly enough--Hard Rock/Metal/Metalcore, and Jazz.
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
I'm a bit of a nut...:
Room within a room "soundproof" construction (to lower the noise floor)
Dedicated (inaudible) HVAC
Wall/ceiling mounted Acoustic treatments
JBL M2 master reference monitor speakers
Crown DCI 4/1250N amplification
Monoprice HTP-1 processor
3- 21" ported subwoofers
150" acoustically transparent projection screen paired with Christie digital projector
Room serves as a home theater space mostly, but sounds pretty good for music too!
Room within a room "soundproof" construction (to lower the noise floor)
Dedicated (inaudible) HVAC
Wall/ceiling mounted Acoustic treatments
JBL M2 master reference monitor speakers
Crown DCI 4/1250N amplification
Monoprice HTP-1 processor
3- 21" ported subwoofers
150" acoustically transparent projection screen paired with Christie digital projector
Room serves as a home theater space mostly, but sounds pretty good for music too!
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
My setup consists of the following:
McIntosh MA9500
Legacy Focus SE Speakers w/ IsoAcoustics Gaia I Isolators
Roon Nucleus
iFi Zen Stream
iFi Power Station
McIntosh MA9500
Legacy Focus SE Speakers w/ IsoAcoustics Gaia I Isolators
Roon Nucleus
iFi Zen Stream
iFi Power Station
Last edited by RidgeCrestMan on Tue Oct 11, 2022 1:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
Kinda surprised/not surprised by the posts. I have Genelec speakers. The rest is diminishing returns.
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
Car Audio question. Looking at adding a subwoofer in the back of my Mustang Mach E. Several people on the MME forum have done it. Any lessons learned in doing this? It has a remote that controls it's volume. Looks straightforward to me.
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
I don't have anywhere close to $100k in my systems, but - checking what vintage equipment is going for these days - much more than I would have guessed.
System 1
Phase Linear 4000 Pre-Amp
2-Phase Linear 400 Amps
Nakamichi 1000 Tape
B&O 8000 Linear Tracking Turntable
Sony ST80F Tuner
Sony CDP-CX455 CD Library
JBL L-65 Jubals Speakers (4)
System 2
Marantz 3600 Pre-Amp
Marantz 240 Amp
Marantz 125 Tuner
Sony CDP-CX455 CD Library
Yamaha K1000 Tape
Thorens TD160 Turntable
JBL 4311B Studio Monitors (2)
There's a third system in my office tied into my computer and streaming, but nothing classic.
System 1
Phase Linear 4000 Pre-Amp
2-Phase Linear 400 Amps
Nakamichi 1000 Tape
B&O 8000 Linear Tracking Turntable
Sony ST80F Tuner
Sony CDP-CX455 CD Library
JBL L-65 Jubals Speakers (4)
System 2
Marantz 3600 Pre-Amp
Marantz 240 Amp
Marantz 125 Tuner
Sony CDP-CX455 CD Library
Yamaha K1000 Tape
Thorens TD160 Turntable
JBL 4311B Studio Monitors (2)
There's a third system in my office tied into my computer and streaming, but nothing classic.
- Lawrence of Suburbia
- Posts: 691
- Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:04 pm
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
Sadly, yes. I have audiophiliac tendencies; but had to go cold turkey once I retired. Cannot justify endless upgrades on a meagre income; I tell myself (and it's true) that "a hifi system is just an appliance for listening to music".
Naim CD5 player
Naim Nait XS2 amp
Graham/Chartwell LS6 speakers
I love that British/BBC type sound
Member on the Steve Hoffman Forum. Sigh
Naim CD5 player
Naim Nait XS2 amp
Graham/Chartwell LS6 speakers
I love that British/BBC type sound
Member on the Steve Hoffman Forum. Sigh
74% VTHRX/8% DODWX/12% TIAA Traditional/6% SWVXX
- Sandtrap
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Wireless ANC Earbuds for AudioPhiles?
I am currently searching for and test driving. .
The highest quality "fidelity" wireless earbuds with the best ANC technology that plays well with an IPhone.
I listen to music most of my waking hours, all types. . at low to low/mid volume.
The ANC noise cancellation feature is a must. Other than soft music, I value "quiet".
Reliability a must.
Suggestions from audio pros?
I have test driven:
The latest:
Bose QC ii
Airpod Pro 2 (gen 2)
many others.
Price is not a concern.
thanks
j
The highest quality "fidelity" wireless earbuds with the best ANC technology that plays well with an IPhone.
I listen to music most of my waking hours, all types. . at low to low/mid volume.
The ANC noise cancellation feature is a must. Other than soft music, I value "quiet".
Reliability a must.
Suggestions from audio pros?
I have test driven:
The latest:
Bose QC ii
Airpod Pro 2 (gen 2)
many others.
Price is not a concern.
thanks
j
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
Do they have to be buds? Focal just released the Bathys, their first Bluetooth ANC headset, and it is getting rave reviews. As an iPhone user, AirPods Max would be another decent option.
- canadianbacon
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Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
As a CD collector, I am sometimes in the habit of Googling "[album name] Steve Hoffman" so I can find the thread on that forum where the different versions have inevitably been discussed and compared...
Bulls make money, bears make money, pigs get slaughtered.
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
I can't believe it but I met someone who swore by those power cords about 25 years ago. He also rewired the outlets in the showroom to hospital grade receptacles (says it makes a huge difference), and had huge racks of AC to DC (lead acid batteries) to AC power conversions in the back of the store; the noise from them would be unbearable. Without clean power he said nothing is good. I am glad I don't have his ears because it would cost me a fortune just to listen to musicTomatoTomahto wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:43 amHeck, just the other day I saw power cords for sale at $23,500 for 3 meters! That's right, the power cord you plug into the wall to bring AC to your gear.lazydavid wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:11 amYeah I think in pretty much any niche/hobby/passion, any of us would be pretty surprised how much "botique" items can cost. And frighteningly enough, one can go a lot deeper down the rabbit hole with Headphones if one wishes. Apologies if I came off defensive.stoptothink wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:26 am Oh, no judgement here. None of my business what you spend your money on and it sounds like you have your financial "ducks in a row". I just had no idea there were headphones that costed that much.
There are a gazillion reasons why expensive power cords are snake oil, but I find it interesting how powerful the placebo effect is such that some people will swear that the difference was a revelation. There's one born every minute.
What Goes Up Must come down -- David Clayton-Thomas (1968), BST
Re: Any audiophiles on this forum?
I just bought the HiFiMan Edition XS and wow... They are absolutely incredibly for extreme metal, classical music, and anything with a lot of detail and sounds. They're not good for everything, and that's why I have three more headphones. Hopefully they are my endgame because I want to try and control myself. My only complaint is the build quality is meh. I wish they were built like a tank like my DT 1990s.