Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

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texasdiver
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by texasdiver »

Northern Flicker wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:37 pm
uaeebs86 wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 6:16 pm
Northern Flicker wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 5:47 pm
PandaBear wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:04 pm US. However, a specific city in the US: Vancouver, WA. No state taxes...
Huh? Washington has taxes.
No state income tax in WA. No sales tax across the river in Oregon.
You will pay in gasoline, automotive wear and tear, and time if you want to live in Vancouver and do all of your shopping in OR. And sales tax is not the only tax in WA. Moreover, Oregon does not tax social security benefits.
Not really. No more wear and tear than shopping locally. There are big box shopping complexes on the Oregon side of each freeway bridge.

There are also a bazillion Amazon lockers scattered all over the airport area right across the bridge. So you can either drive 5-10 min across either bridge to shop at Target/Ikea/Best Buy/Costco/Home Depot or you can just order expensive stuff on Amazon and have it shipped to any of dozens of Amazon lockers right across the river.

Sure you will still pay some taxes like property taxes and vehicle taxes. But a whole lot of people do an enormous amount of tax evasion by living in Vancouver (no income tax) and shopping for big ticket items in Portland (no sales tax). Not saying it's right. It is a consequence of the divergent history of those two states and unlikely to change anytime soon.
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HomerJ
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by HomerJ »

truenorth418 wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:34 pm lots of dog waste on streets and sidewalks - there is no worse place in the world for dog waste in public spaces than the USA, where I have even seen dogs defecate and urinate in supermarkets, restaurants, hotel rooms.
No you haven't.
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whodidntante
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by whodidntante »

Nomad is my plan. Though I'm capable of love so I might get stuck. But I have enjoyed Portugal, Italy, China, Czech Republic, Finland, Peru, Denmark, Poland, Canada, Mexico, Sweden, Germany, Costa Rica, India, Aruba, Belize, and England. I would recommend all of those places. I've also been other places like France. OK, I'm kidding about France. I only went to Paris and the weather was awful. I mean, full on miserable. I'm sure it's a fine country.

However, I cannot live in Germany because I will gain 10,000 lbs. The food is highly optimized to my tastes, which should not surprised me because I have German ancestors.

I have many countries on my todo list. Many countries. I honestly have not been anyplace that I hated. It helps if you do not assume it is America.

There is every chance that a three month stay in a gambling mecca will turn into a year at some point. But hopefully not permanent. I like seeing the world.
VanGar+Goyle
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by VanGar+Goyle »

HomerJ wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 12:35 am
truenorth418 wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:34 pm lots of dog waste on streets and sidewalks - there is no worse place in the world for dog waste in public spaces than the USA, where I have even seen dogs defecate and urinate in supermarkets, restaurants, hotel rooms.
No you haven't.
I am not sure. This could be one bad trip by someone with their dogs.

I think that there are other countries with even more dog waste than USA.
Argentina has the highest number of dogs per capita, but you want the highest density of dogs.
Paris, France, has 2,857 rude dogs per square kilometer. http://photos1.blogger.com/img/241/3707 ... upPoop.jpg
truenorth418
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by truenorth418 »

HomerJ wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 12:35 am
truenorth418 wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:34 pm lots of dog waste on streets and sidewalks - there is no worse place in the world for dog waste in public spaces than the USA, where I have even seen dogs defecate and urinate in supermarkets, restaurants, hotel rooms.
No you haven't.
You’re right. The dog urine was already there when I checked into the hotel room.
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by firebirdparts »

countofmc wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:20 pm Maybe I'm romanticizing this, but I'd love to stay in the USA but move to a small town. One of those towns with a main street full of small businesses and charming store fronts. Small enough that people say hi and are willing to lend a helping hand, but large enough that they know to mind their own business. I don't know, maybe this only exists in movies.
If you do move to one, all I ask is please please don’t ruin it.
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truenorth418
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by truenorth418 »

whodidntante wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:32 am Nomad is my plan.
I am retired and have been living nomadically for almost 6 years. It has been a great experience. I started out staying a month or two at a time in airbnbs or vrbos, but more recently I divide my time between hotels and cruise ships. I move seasonally, more or less, to follow the weather I like. With modern technology it is easier than ever. Before covid I thought I would soon settle down in one place but since that difficult period I became more excited than ever to keep traveling. I try to keep things as simple as possible, in personal finance and all areas of my life. I’ve met some terrific people from all over the world. Similarly, I’ve spent time in some fantastic places, and places I return to repeatedly that almost feel like “home”, but no place is perfect and none that “check enough boxes” to be worth the time, trouble, expense of putting down roots again, so far.

You never know what your future holds so you best make the most of it while you can.
Northern Flicker
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by Northern Flicker »

texasdiver wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:38 pm
Northern Flicker wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:37 pm
uaeebs86 wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 6:16 pm
Northern Flicker wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 5:47 pm
PandaBear wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:04 pm US. However, a specific city in the US: Vancouver, WA. No state taxes...
Huh? Washington has taxes.
No state income tax in WA. No sales tax across the river in Oregon.
You will pay in gasoline, automotive wear and tear, and time if you want to live in Vancouver and do all of your shopping in OR. And sales tax is not the only tax in WA. Moreover, Oregon does not tax social security benefits.
Not really. No more wear and tear than shopping locally. There are big box shopping complexes on the Oregon side of each freeway bridge.
The comparison is not whether you have to drive further to shop in OR or WA if you live in Vancouver. The question is whether you will drive more to shop if you live in Vancouver vs living in Portland.

Sure, you can shop in Vancouver and pay both sales tax and car travel cost.
Blue456
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by Blue456 »

Midwest USA.
texasdiver
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by texasdiver »

Northern Flicker wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 12:43 pm
texasdiver wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:38 pm
Northern Flicker wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:37 pm
uaeebs86 wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 6:16 pm
Northern Flicker wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 5:47 pm
Huh? Washington has taxes.
No state income tax in WA. No sales tax across the river in Oregon.
You will pay in gasoline, automotive wear and tear, and time if you want to live in Vancouver and do all of your shopping in OR. And sales tax is not the only tax in WA. Moreover, Oregon does not tax social security benefits.
Not really. No more wear and tear than shopping locally. There are big box shopping complexes on the Oregon side of each freeway bridge.
The comparison is not whether you have to drive further to shop in OR or WA if you live in Vancouver. The question is whether you will drive more to shop if you live in Vancouver vs living in Portland.

Sure, you can shop in Vancouver and pay both sales tax and car travel cost.
Depends on where you live in either city. There are massive collections of big box shopping on the Portland side in the shadow of each freeway bridge that are literally closer and more convenient for many Vancouver residents to reach than Portland residents, especially considering traffic. If you want to shop at Best Buy or Ikea, this is the drive from central Portland vs East Vancouver at this moment at 4:30 on a Tuesday afternoon. Much quicker for a Vancouverite to pop over to pick something up than someone living in central Portland. There is no WA sales tax on groceries so we are really only talking about big box purchases (electronics, furniture, clothing, hardware, tools, etc.) That splotch of yellow between Ikea and Target at the destination for each route is this place: https://www.shopcascadestation.com/

East Vancouver
Image

Central Portland
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AerialWombat
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by AerialWombat »

texasdiver wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 6:38 pm There is no WA sales tax on groceries so we are really only talking about big box purchases (electronics, furniture, clothing, hardware, tools, etc.)
This is tax evasion, however. You are legally supposed to be filing and paying WA use tax on all such purchases that you bring over from OR. Hardly anybody does, obviously, but everybody is supposed to.
This post is a work of fiction. Any similarity to real financial advice is purely coincidental.
Northern Flicker
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by Northern Flicker »

AerialWombat wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 6:47 pm
texasdiver wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 6:38 pm There is no WA sales tax on groceries so we are really only talking about big box purchases (electronics, furniture, clothing, hardware, tools, etc.)
This is tax evasion, however. You are legally supposed to be filing and paying WA use tax on all such purchases that you bring over from OR. Hardly anybody does, obviously, but everybody is supposed to.
Instead of funding services in their own state with taxes on the retail transactions directly, WA residents who shop in OR are funding some OR taxes and services indirectly through payroll and business taxes pertinent to the big box stores for which the retail sales from WA customers are the ultimate revenue source.
Random Poster
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by Random Poster »

truenorth418 wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:04 am
whodidntante wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:32 am Nomad is my plan.
I am retired and have been living nomadically for almost 6 years. It has been a great experience. I started out staying a month or two at a time in airbnbs or vrbos, but more recently I divide my time between hotels and cruise ships. I move seasonally, more or less, to follow the weather I like. With modern technology it is easier than ever. Before covid I thought I would soon settle down in one place but since that difficult period I became more excited than ever to keep traveling. I try to keep things as simple as possible, in personal finance and all areas of my life. I’ve met some terrific people from all over the world. Similarly, I’ve spent time in some fantastic places, and places I return to repeatedly that almost feel like “home”, but no place is perfect and none that “check enough boxes” to be worth the time, trouble, expense of putting down roots again, so far.

You never know what your future holds so you best make the most of it while you can.
Without threadjacking, could you please answer the following questions:

1) Do you have a home base (ie, a place to put your stuff or return to in between trips)? If so, do you mind to say which State it is in?

2) How do you handle health insurance? Do you have a US plan and then an international plan too?

3) How do you handle taxes?

4) How do you handle investments and access to money? Just use an ATM? What happens when your card(s) expire and you have to get a new one—where do you have it sent to?

Thanks.
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Valuethinker
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by Valuethinker »

peterinjapan wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:52 pm I seen people talking about living abroad when they retire, which is something I'd like to do, so I thought I'd toss out a thread on this topic. What places are on your short list to consider? Mine are...

a) Costa de Sol or Malaga, Spain. Lovely area, lots of Brits living there, and you're not far from Gibraltar, if you need a proper British pub.
If you have an Irish passport or other EU, great. I don't know what the rules are for new Brits, but I doubt Spain will be that welcoming to aging retirees-- the existing community was granted right to remain (largely) at the time of Brexit (but Brits are being tossed out of European countries all the time if they didn't get their paperwork in order, Sweden is apparently the worst offender in terms of making that difficult). At the very least, you will need medical insurance.

BTW the presence of Brits refusing/ unable to integrate is one of the less appealing aspects. Who wants to sit talking about the weather when it's always the same? Or yack about football clubs back home owned by oligarchs & sheikhs? Play golf? Complain about the locals? My friend who has retired to outside of Malaga speaks Spanish, has Spanish neighbours and has very little to do with the English there. I am not such a good linguist.

Portugal seems to be the new "hot" destination and I liked Portugal. So Portugal over Spain. South of France over Spain, too - although it is more costly. But around Toulouse or in the Pyrenees.

With modern high speed trains now all over Spain, a friend (Argentinian) says he can live cheaply 250 km from Madrid and go up there whenever he needs stimulation or to do research.
b) Penang, Malaysia. Very nice area, huge shopping malls with Western shops, a big expat culture and high standard of living. Much better than Kota Kinabalu, though that is also a nice place. I might also consider Kuala Lumpur too.
A conservative Muslim country but as long as you are OK with that, it's very beautiful.
c) Bali is another possibility, though I haven't been yet.

What countries are you interested in possibly living in in the future?
It depends what you want. I would last about a month in these places and then be off somewhere for more stimulation.

So. Retirement. New York City (Manhattan or Brooklyn). London (well I already live near there). Canada (but only April to October, please unless it was the West Coast). Maybe Denmark, Norway or Sweden (the weather might get to me). Scotland (ditto). Melbourne?

I have a friend from London who has settled in a Canadian maritime city of less than 500k people. He's gotten involved in local politics & community action. He seems happy. But jeez do they have a tough winter (ice storms).
Last edited by Valuethinker on Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by Valuethinker »

texasdiver wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:38 pm

Sure you will still pay some taxes like property taxes and vehicle taxes. But a whole lot of people do an enormous amount of tax evasion by living in Vancouver (no income tax) and shopping for big ticket items in Portland (no sales tax). Not saying it's right. It is a consequence of the divergent history of those two states and unlikely to change anytime soon.
Legally is that "evasion"?

"Avoidance" is legal ie arranging your affairs so that you pay a lower tax rate on something.

"Evasion" is where you legally owe tax, and you don't pay it.

Because of the complexity of tax codes this is a grey line not a sharply defined one. And in some parts of the world (like southern Europe) tax evasion is almost a guaranteed.

Thus we have the situation in Italy, where an 8 year old boy was successfully prosecuted for not paying VAT on the purchase of an apple at a small grocery store. In Italy you are legally required to be given the receipt and you must take it with you - or you have committed a crime.

The punchline? The boy bought the apple at his father's shop. Italy's rules are so complex that it's almost impossible to avoid breaking them, and in fact they declare periodic "amnesties" where you pay a fine (eg for constructing or extending without planning permission from the municipality) and go on your way. (Something something Martin Luther something indulgences something Protestant Reformation...)

If I lived in Vancouver, BC, Canada and I went to Bellingham in Washington and brought back more than my annual allowances in duty free goods (and yes, they keep track of your visits, and CCRA does do spot checks of cars etc) without paying the duty due, then I am committing a crime. There's an international frontier there.

But this situation? There's no tax frontier between Vancouver WA & Portland OR?
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by Valuethinker »

peterinjapan wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:52 pm I seen people talking about living abroad when they retire, which is something I'd like to do, so I thought I'd toss out a thread on this topic. What places are on your short list to consider? Mine are...

a) Costa de Sol or Malaga, Spain. Lovely area, lots of Brits living there, and you're not far from Gibraltar, if you need a proper British pub.

b) Penang, Malaysia. Very nice area, huge shopping malls with Western shops, a big expat culture and high standard of living. Much better than Kota Kinabalu, though that is also a nice place. I might also consider Kuala Lumpur too.

c) Bali is another possibility, though I haven't been yet.

What countries are you interested in possibly living in in the future?
A British note to this.

The leading places for Brits to retire to are Spain, Australia, Canada. The latter two almost entirely to join family out there.

If you retire to any EU country, or the USA, your State Pension is fully indexed to whatever it is in the UK (recently inflation + 2.5%). So your pension will keep up with inflation in the UK, and hopefully the currency swings will even out.

However if you retire to Australia or Canada, there is no equalisation treaty. Your pension is frozen as at the date of your departure.

There's an action group that lobbies Parliament about this, but there's no political interest in any British government spending money increasing the pensions of people who don't live in Britain. Of course this is enormously short sighted, because State pensions are a minor cost of an older person to society* - the vast majority of costs are healthcare and old age home care. Burdens which would be entirely taken on by the Canadian or Australian government & societies. But that wouldn't show up in the British government accounts as a saving, whereas increasing the State pension would.

So. Your financial position in where you retire is a big factor.


* about £8k a year, from memory. For the Basic State Pension.
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Shackleton
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by Shackleton »

Valuethinker wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:36 am
texasdiver wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:38 pm

Sure you will still pay some taxes like property taxes and vehicle taxes. But a whole lot of people do an enormous amount of tax evasion by living in Vancouver (no income tax) and shopping for big ticket items in Portland (no sales tax). Not saying it's right. It is a consequence of the divergent history of those two states and unlikely to change anytime soon.
Legally is that "evasion"?

"Avoidance" is legal ie arranging your affairs so that you pay a lower tax rate on something.

"Evasion" is where you legally owe tax, and you don't pay it.
<snip>
But this situation? There's no tax frontier between Vancouver WA & Portland OR?
There is a state tax frontier. As noted in the Washington state “Use Tax” web page, that tax is owed.

https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/use-tax
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by billaster »

Valuethinker wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:36 am
texasdiver wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:38 pm

Sure you will still pay some taxes like property taxes and vehicle taxes. But a whole lot of people do an enormous amount of tax evasion by living in Vancouver (no income tax) and shopping for big ticket items in Portland (no sales tax). Not saying it's right. It is a consequence of the divergent history of those two states and unlikely to change anytime soon.
Legally is that "evasion"?

"Avoidance" is legal ie arranging your affairs so that you pay a lower tax rate on something.

"Evasion" is where you legally owe tax, and you don't pay it.

Because of the complexity of tax codes this is a grey line not a sharply defined one. And in some parts of the world (like southern Europe) tax evasion is almost a guaranteed.
No, it is not a grey line. It is outright tax evasion. Just because many people do not get caught does not mean it is not a violation. Lots of people cheat on taxes. That doesn't make it okay.
https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/use-tax
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by Sandtrap »

Already retired and settled but my short list:
Culture
Climate
Money is not an issue.

Hawaii
USA some places: Bay Area, Seattle area etc.
Japan
S Korea
Taiwan
Singapore
Spain
New Zealand
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HanSolo
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by HanSolo »

peterinjapan wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:52 pm a) Costa de Sol or Malaga, Spain. Lovely area, lots of Brits living there, and you're not far from Gibraltar, if you need a proper British pub.

b) Penang, Malaysia. Very nice area, huge shopping malls with Western shops, a big expat culture and high standard of living. Much better than Kota Kinabalu, though that is also a nice place. I might also consider Kuala Lumpur too.

c) Bali is another possibility, though I haven't been yet.
Sandtrap wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 12:38 pm Japan
S Korea
Taiwan
Singapore
Spain
New Zealand
Not to rain on the parade, but in many countries, getting resident status as a retiree and/or any kind of retirement visa (or similar) is either not possible or has hoops to jump through that one may or may not pass.
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by Sandtrap »

HanSolo wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 1:37 pm
peterinjapan wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:52 pm a) Costa de Sol or Malaga, Spain. Lovely area, lots of Brits living there, and you're not far from Gibraltar, if you need a proper British pub.

b) Penang, Malaysia. Very nice area, huge shopping malls with Western shops, a big expat culture and high standard of living. Much better than Kota Kinabalu, though that is also a nice place. I might also consider Kuala Lumpur too.

c) Bali is another possibility, though I haven't been yet.
Sandtrap wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 12:38 pm Japan
S Korea
Taiwan
Singapore
Spain
New Zealand
Not to rain on the parade, but in many countries, getting resident status as a retiree and/or any kind of retirement visa (or similar) is either not possible or has hoops to jump through that one may or may not pass.
great points
well said

thank you
j
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truenorth418
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by truenorth418 »

Random Poster wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 10:22 pm
truenorth418 wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:04 am
whodidntante wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:32 am Nomad is my plan.
I am retired and have been living nomadically for almost 6 years. It has been a great experience. I started out staying a month or two at a time in airbnbs or vrbos, but more recently I divide my time between hotels and cruise ships. I move seasonally, more or less, to follow the weather I like. With modern technology it is easier than ever. Before covid I thought I would soon settle down in one place but since that difficult period I became more excited than ever to keep traveling. I try to keep things as simple as possible, in personal finance and all areas of my life. I’ve met some terrific people from all over the world. Similarly, I’ve spent time in some fantastic places, and places I return to repeatedly that almost feel like “home”, but no place is perfect and none that “check enough boxes” to be worth the time, trouble, expense of putting down roots again, so far.

You never know what your future holds so you best make the most of it while you can.
Without threadjacking, could you please answer the following questions:

1) Do you have a home base (ie, a place to put your stuff or return to in between trips)? If so, do you mind to say which State it is in?

A. Legal domicile is Florida although overall I don’t spend much time there, recently only a few weeks a year. I would settle there long term whenever I stop traveling unless I find someplace I like better. I donated/sold all my “stuff” years ago and just carry what I use in a bag that fits in a standard overhead bin.

2) How do you handle health insurance? Do you have a US plan and then an international plan too? US plan in Florida and also international.

A. I have health insurance in Florida as well as international. If I had a chronic illness, I’d go to Florida. If I broke my arm I’d get it treated in whatever country. Frankly most of the time I just pay out of pocket for the small stuff, and I’ve had great experiences with doctors and dentists all over the world.

3) How do you handle taxes?

A. As a US person I file a tax returns in the US and pay whatever is required. I don’t spend enough time in any other country to get caught in their tax net.

4) How do you handle investments and access to money? Just use an ATM? What happens when your card(s) expire and you have to get a new one—where do you have it sent to?

A. Investments and bank are all US based. I use my ATM card for withdrawals everywhere and it’s seamless although most all countries make it easy to pay by card or Apple Pay or whatever. I carry a couple of back up cards in case one is lost or blocked for some reason, which has happened.



Thanks.
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by Random Poster »

truenorth418 wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 2:01 pm
A. Legal domicile is Florida….
Thanks for the responses.
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Valuethinker
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by Valuethinker »

billaster wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 11:51 am
Valuethinker wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:36 am
texasdiver wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:38 pm

Sure you will still pay some taxes like property taxes and vehicle taxes. But a whole lot of people do an enormous amount of tax evasion by living in Vancouver (no income tax) and shopping for big ticket items in Portland (no sales tax). Not saying it's right. It is a consequence of the divergent history of those two states and unlikely to change anytime soon.
Legally is that "evasion"?

"Avoidance" is legal ie arranging your affairs so that you pay a lower tax rate on something.

"Evasion" is where you legally owe tax, and you don't pay it.

Because of the complexity of tax codes this is a grey line not a sharply defined one. And in some parts of the world (like southern Europe) tax evasion is almost a guaranteed.
No, it is not a grey line. It is outright tax evasion.
You mean evasion in this case. Thank you for answering my specific question on this point.

I was making a general point about the fact that the line between evasion and avoidance is often not clear -- tax is complex. International taxation even more so.

Just because many people do not get caught does not mean it is not a violation. Lots of people cheat on taxes. That doesn't make it okay.
https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/use-tax
As I said, avoidance is legal, evasion is illegal.

The point I was making was that in certain parts of the world, tax evasion is a cultural norm. Not coincidentally, places like Italy have very complex tax codes, and it's possible to inadvertently overstep them*. Governments tend to rely more on general indirect taxes (like VAT) which are very hard to evade.

Income tax forms for individuals, are, in contrast to the USA, generally quite simple. Canada is an exception. But most countries it's all been done for you (withheld at source). c 80% of Brits never file a tax return.

* hence my point about amnesties being a regular feature of tax in these countries.
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by tm3 »

JaneyLH wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:13 pm I've looked into emigrating and have been disappointed to see how few "developed" countries will take an American retiree... even with plenty of funding. Makes me rethink the whole U.S. immigration question when I realize we have the welcome sign out but I can't go anywhere but developing countries and New Zealand. :(
I'm glad that 7 years after the above post the US immigration problem has been solved.
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by toomanysidehustles »

texasdiver wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 6:38 pm
Northern Flicker wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 12:43 pm
texasdiver wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:38 pm
Northern Flicker wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:37 pm
uaeebs86 wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 6:16 pm

No state income tax in WA. No sales tax across the river in Oregon.
You will pay in gasoline, automotive wear and tear, and time if you want to live in Vancouver and do all of your shopping in OR. And sales tax is not the only tax in WA. Moreover, Oregon does not tax social security benefits.
Not really. No more wear and tear than shopping locally. There are big box shopping complexes on the Oregon side of each freeway bridge.
The comparison is not whether you have to drive further to shop in OR or WA if you live in Vancouver. The question is whether you will drive more to shop if you live in Vancouver vs living in Portland.

Sure, you can shop in Vancouver and pay both sales tax and car travel cost.
Depends on where you live in either city. There are massive collections of big box shopping on the Portland side in the shadow of each freeway bridge that are literally closer and more convenient for many Vancouver residents to reach than Portland residents, especially considering traffic. If you want to shop at Best Buy or Ikea, this is the drive from central Portland vs East Vancouver at this moment at 4:30 on a Tuesday afternoon. Much quicker for a Vancouverite to pop over to pick something up than someone living in central Portland. There is no WA sales tax on groceries so we are really only talking about big box purchases (electronics, furniture, clothing, hardware, tools, etc.) That splotch of yellow between Ikea and Target at the destination for each route is this place: https://www.shopcascadestation.com/

East Vancouver
Image

Central Portland
Image
Out of curiousity, I had to look up Vancouver, WA after learning there was a utopia where you could live in a beautiful place and pay no income tax, and drive across the river and pay no sales tax. I stopped reading shortly after it said "averages 143 sunny days a year"
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by matthewbarnhart »

tm3 wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:59 am
JaneyLH wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:13 pm I've looked into emigrating and have been disappointed to see how few "developed" countries will take an American retiree... even with plenty of funding. Makes me rethink the whole U.S. immigration question when I realize we have the welcome sign out but I can't go anywhere but developing countries and New Zealand. :(
I'm glad that 7 years after the above post the US immigration problem has been solved.
As someone with extensive experience traveling to/working in other countries and helping foreigners come to the US to work, I'd say the original poster has zero clue just how difficult the US immigration process is compared to just about any other developed country.

"We have the welcome sign out", ooooh boy. As-if.
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by EddyB »

matthewbarnhart wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 7:52 am
tm3 wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:59 am
JaneyLH wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:13 pm I've looked into emigrating and have been disappointed to see how few "developed" countries will take an American retiree... even with plenty of funding. Makes me rethink the whole U.S. immigration question when I realize we have the welcome sign out but I can't go anywhere but developing countries and New Zealand. :(
I'm glad that 7 years after the above post the US immigration problem has been solved.
As someone with extensive experience traveling to/working in other countries and helping foreigners come to the US to work, I'd say the original poster has zero clue just how difficult the US immigration process is compared to just about any other developed country.

"We have the welcome sign out", ooooh boy. As-if.
You don’t have to look very hard to find US citizens breaking immigration laws in other countries, either, without any sense that they see themselves doing anything that’s such a big deal.
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HanSolo
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by HanSolo »

EddyB wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 7:55 am
matthewbarnhart wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 7:52 am As someone with extensive experience traveling to/working in other countries and helping foreigners come to the US to work, I'd say the original poster has zero clue just how difficult the US immigration process is compared to just about any other developed country.

"We have the welcome sign out", ooooh boy. As-if.
You don’t have to look very hard to find US citizens breaking immigration laws in other countries, either, without any sense that they see themselves doing anything that’s such a big deal.
"Either"? I think the person you responded to was commenting on what's involved in following the laws, not breaking them.
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Valuethinker
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by Valuethinker »

Shackleton wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:52 am
Valuethinker wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:36 am
texasdiver wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:38 pm

Sure you will still pay some taxes like property taxes and vehicle taxes. But a whole lot of people do an enormous amount of tax evasion by living in Vancouver (no income tax) and shopping for big ticket items in Portland (no sales tax). Not saying it's right. It is a consequence of the divergent history of those two states and unlikely to change anytime soon.
Legally is that "evasion"?

"Avoidance" is legal ie arranging your affairs so that you pay a lower tax rate on something.

"Evasion" is where you legally owe tax, and you don't pay it.
<snip>
But this situation? There's no tax frontier between Vancouver WA & Portland OR?
There is a state tax frontier. As noted in the Washington state “Use Tax” web page, that tax is owed.

https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/use-tax
Thank you.

I don't think there is a parallel situation in Canada, also a Federal (federated) state where each state (province) has its own sales tax rate and income tax rate*. Nor in Australia (ditto). Don't know re Germany.

"The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" has no internal barriers (caveat below) between the 4 nations of: England, Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland. But sales taxes are the same in all 4.

(Caveat: we have a Brexit deal which, to preserve the Good Friday Agreement between the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland, has imposed some "barriers in the Irish Sea" between NI & the rest of the UK. That is a political hot topic, right now, and is the subject of negotiations between the EU and the UK. I am not going to go there - partly because it is complex & partly because it is politically divisive).


* this is Canada, of course. Not all provinces calculate sales tax the same way as the Federal Goods and Services Tax. Canada :oops: :oops:
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by EddyB »

HanSolo wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:36 am
EddyB wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 7:55 am
matthewbarnhart wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 7:52 am As someone with extensive experience traveling to/working in other countries and helping foreigners come to the US to work, I'd say the original poster has zero clue just how difficult the US immigration process is compared to just about any other developed country.

"We have the welcome sign out", ooooh boy. As-if.
You don’t have to look very hard to find US citizens breaking immigration laws in other countries, either, without any sense that they see themselves doing anything that’s such a big deal.
"Either"? I think the person you responded to was commenting on what's involved in following the laws, not breaking them.
Yes, “either” is, I think, what I intended, but maybe I misunderstand the scope of criticism in JaneyLH’s post. We’re all tainted by our own experience; I didn’t take the reference to “the welcome sign” as limited to legal migration, and I’ve seen many examples of US citizens who flout other countries’ immigration laws without seeing it as equivalent to the stereotypical US portrayal of “illegal immigration” from its southern neighbors. I’ll stop there, don’t want to further derail the thread.
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by GT99 »

HomerJ wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 12:35 am
truenorth418 wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:34 pm lots of dog waste on streets and sidewalks - there is no worse place in the world for dog waste in public spaces than the USA, where I have even seen dogs defecate and urinate in supermarkets, restaurants, hotel rooms.
No you haven't.
Lol - I was going to say, I've lived my entire life in the US (other than travel of course) and have travelled the country extensively. I've never seen this. Ever.
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by halfnine »

EddyB wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 10:42 am
HanSolo wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:36 am
EddyB wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 7:55 am
matthewbarnhart wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 7:52 am As someone with extensive experience traveling to/working in other countries and helping foreigners come to the US to work, I'd say the original poster has zero clue just how difficult the US immigration process is compared to just about any other developed country.

"We have the welcome sign out", ooooh boy. As-if.
You don’t have to look very hard to find US citizens breaking immigration laws in other countries, either, without any sense that they see themselves doing anything that’s such a big deal.
"Either"? I think the person you responded to was commenting on what's involved in following the laws, not breaking them.
Yes, “either” is, I think, what I intended, but maybe I misunderstand the scope of criticism in JaneyLH’s post. We’re all tainted by our own experience; I didn’t take the reference to “the welcome sign” as limited to legal migration, and I’ve seen many examples of US citizens who flout other countries’ immigration laws without seeing it as equivalent to the stereotypical US portrayal of “illegal immigration” from its southern neighbors. I’ll stop there, don’t want to further derail the thread.
Actually, JaneyLH was "disappointed" with how other developed countries were towards American "retirees". Then she conflated this with the USA's immigration policy as a whole. I think if she were to look at the ability of a "retiree" to immigrate to the USA she would no longer see such inconsistency among immigration policies.
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by Metsfan91 »

Your favorite country to possibly retire to?
United States of America :-P
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by texasdiver »

toomanysidehustles wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 7:06 amOut of curiousity, I had to look up Vancouver, WA after learning there was a utopia where you could live in a beautiful place and pay no income tax, and drive across the river and pay no sales tax. I stopped reading shortly after it said "averages 143 sunny days a year"
You do what we plan to do when we retire. Live in Vancouver area 6 months/year when the weather is perfect. Then spend the other 6 months/year in Chile when the weather down there is perfect. Opposite seasons and all.

My wife is Chilean and we already have family property down there. It's just a question of getting the last kid out of the house and getting all the finances in order.

Living in two countries on opposite sides of the world doesn't exactly save money. But we don't plan a penny pinching retirement.
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by Wannaretireearly »

truenorth418 wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:04 am
whodidntante wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:32 am Nomad is my plan.
I am retired and have been living nomadically for almost 6 years. It has been a great experience. I started out staying a month or two at a time in airbnbs or vrbos, but more recently I divide my time between hotels and cruise ships. I move seasonally, more or less, to follow the weather I like. With modern technology it is easier than ever. Before covid I thought I would soon settle down in one place but since that difficult period I became more excited than ever to keep traveling. I try to keep things as simple as possible, in personal finance and all areas of my life. I’ve met some terrific people from all over the world. Similarly, I’ve spent time in some fantastic places, and places I return to repeatedly that almost feel like “home”, but no place is perfect and none that “check enough boxes” to be worth the time, trouble, expense of putting down roots again, so far.

You never know what your future holds so you best make the most of it while you can.
This is amazing true north! Would love to read more if you’ve posted details here or blogged elsewhere.
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by Shackleton »

Valuethinker wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:54 am
Shackleton wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:52 am
Valuethinker wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:36 am
texasdiver wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:38 pm

Sure you will still pay some taxes like property taxes and vehicle taxes. But a whole lot of people do an enormous amount of tax evasion by living in Vancouver (no income tax) and shopping for big ticket items in Portland (no sales tax). Not saying it's right. It is a consequence of the divergent history of those two states and unlikely to change anytime soon.
Legally is that "evasion"?

"Avoidance" is legal ie arranging your affairs so that you pay a lower tax rate on something.

"Evasion" is where you legally owe tax, and you don't pay it.
<snip>
But this situation? There's no tax frontier between Vancouver WA & Portland OR?
There is a state tax frontier. As noted in the Washington state “Use Tax” web page, that tax is owed.

https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/use-tax
Thank you.

I don't think there is a parallel situation in Canada, also a Federal (federated) state where each state (province) has its own sales tax rate and income tax rate*. Nor in Australia (ditto). Don't know re Germany.

"The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" has no internal barriers (caveat below) between the 4 nations of: England, Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland. But sales taxes are the same in all 4.

(Caveat: we have a Brexit deal which, to preserve the Good Friday Agreement between the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland, has imposed some "barriers in the Irish Sea" between NI & the rest of the UK. That is a political hot topic, right now, and is the subject of negotiations between the EU and the UK. I am not going to go there - partly because it is complex & partly because it is politically divisive).


* this is Canada, of course. Not all provinces calculate sales tax the same way as the Federal Goods and Services Tax. Canada :oops: :oops:
The person you were responding to and quoted about evasion vs avoidance was speaking of living in Vancouver Washington (a US state) not Canada. Vancouver WA and Portland Oregon are separated by a river, as seen in the screen shots posted by someone else. Even if this were Canada we were speaking of, the Washington state use tax would still apply.
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by 8301 »

Does anyone consider developed east Asian countries (Japan, South Korea, or Taiwan)? They are all orderly and safe. They have market-driven economies and modern amenities are all available there. Taiwan may be iffy because of the current geopolitical crisis.
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by jaqenhghar »

8301 wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 8:18 am Does anyone consider developed east Asian countries (Japan, South Korea, or Taiwan)? They are all orderly and safe. They have market-driven economies and modern amenities are all available there. Taiwan may be iffy because of the current geopolitical crisis.
I went to Japan for the first time a few years ago and had to the same thought. I don't know, however, if there are any special visas/processes for potential expat retirees in Japan to allow them to stay there for an extended period of time.
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by uaeebs86 »

Mine are New Zealand, Australia, and Portugal but I also know it's never going to happen.
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by 8301 »

uaeebs86 wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:03 am Mine are New Zealand, Australia, and Portugal but I also know it's never going to happen.
:( :?:
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by uaeebs86 »

8301 wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:07 am
uaeebs86 wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:03 am Mine are New Zealand, Australia, and Portugal but I also know it's never going to happen.
:( :?:
The visa / asset rules for retirees, health insurance for non-natives, distance from kids, etc. etc.


Or maybe I should take that attitude from the real estate show about living in Hawaii - "Living in Hawaii isn't impossible - you just have to want it!"
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by halfnine »

jaqenhghar wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:00 am
8301 wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 8:18 am Does anyone consider developed east Asian countries (Japan, South Korea, or Taiwan)? They are all orderly and safe. They have market-driven economies and modern amenities are all available there. Taiwan may be iffy because of the current geopolitical crisis.
I went to Japan for the first time a few years ago and had to the same thought. I don't know, however, if there are any special visas/processes for potential expat retirees in Japan to allow them to stay there for an extended period of time.
The population within these countries is highly homogeneous. As such, there is often a great divide between how one is treated superficially as a visitor than how one is treated as a neighbor. Most of those who do immigrate have some sort of family or ethnic tie to the country. Of course, there are pockets of expat communities but that may or may not be what one is interested in.
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by Barkingsparrow »

uaeebs86 wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:15 am
8301 wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:07 am
uaeebs86 wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:03 am Mine are New Zealand, Australia, and Portugal but I also know it's never going to happen.
:( :?:
The visa / asset rules for retirees, health insurance for non-natives, distance from kids, etc. etc.

Or maybe I should take that attitude from the real estate show about living in Hawaii - "Living in Hawaii isn't impossible - you just have to want it!"
For Australia, they have investor visas. One is the "Significant" visa, which is $5 million AUD. The other is the "Premium" visa, which is $15 million AUD. The Premium has no age limits, and basically - the one that really greases the wheels.

I did not look into NZ, even though I've been there multiple times. Being such a small country, their health-care system seems a bit strapped. I love to vacation there, but to retire? Not so sure about that.
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by hunoraut »

the most probable answer is wherever my children who hold US/EU passport choose to live, to be close to them.

if it was me alone I’d choose Spain but spouse has a different opinion on that. perhaps Austria.
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by Freefun »

Malaysia
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by Vanguard User »

USA still but I am single, no kids. Extended family here and I don’t like year round hot/humid.

Sounds scary to just move alone abroad? Probably Portugal not sure.
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by uaeebs86 »

hunoraut wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 12:07 pm the most probable answer is wherever my children who hold US/EU passport choose to live, to be close to them.

if it was me alone I’d choose Spain but spouse has a different opinion on that. perhaps Austria.

My son-in-law is a Brit, so if they ever decide to go back there might be an option for us.

Daughter-in-law's mom is a Filipino citizen, not really sure that's an option I'd even want to explore.
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by HanSolo »

For those just tuning in, note that this thread is from 2016, and the following post brought it back to life:
sabhen wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 5:30 pm Interesting thread. Any update from people who made the leap to retire overseas?
Yes. I'm in Thailand now, trying it out as a long-term possibility as a retiree. I'm fairly new to Thailand, but not Asia, having spent several years in China/HK/Taiwan. So, in some sense, it's a new and unfamiliar culture to me, but I'm willing to give it a try.
halfnine wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:23 am
jaqenhghar wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:00 am
8301 wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 8:18 am Does anyone consider developed east Asian countries (Japan, South Korea, or Taiwan)? They are all orderly and safe. They have market-driven economies and modern amenities are all available there. Taiwan may be iffy because of the current geopolitical crisis.
I went to Japan for the first time a few years ago and had to the same thought. I don't know, however, if there are any special visas/processes for potential expat retirees in Japan to allow them to stay there for an extended period of time.
The population within these countries is highly homogeneous. As such, there is often a great divide between how one is treated superficially as a visitor than how one is treated as a neighbor. Most of those who do immigrate have some sort of family or ethnic tie to the country. Of course, there are pockets of expat communities but that may or may not be what one is interested in.
The above comments have some essential insights. Yes, visas for retirees are an issue in most countries under discussion (as I mentioned upthread, a couple days ago). For that, Thailand is an option because they have a variety of different visas targeted specifically at people who want to come as retirees. Most places in the world (including China, HK and Taiwan) don't.

The comment about homogeneous culture is particularly poignant, at least for me, as I'm noticing that the "wall" between locals and foreigners here in Thailand is much higher than in China/HK/Taiwan. In the latter places, meetups and other social groups usually included a mix of locals and foreigners. Here, they usually don't. And in China/HK/Taiwan, I had local friends, but here in Thailand, I'm hearing that it's unusual for foreigners to have any local friends at all (other than the usual "foreign man, local woman" pairings), even after they've lived here 20 years. On the other hand, I still have Chinese friends who keep in touch with me on and off, even years since I've seen them.

Living in an "expat bubble" wasn't what I had in mind when I came to Thailand, but that seems to be the thing here.
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Re: Your favorite country to possibly retire to?

Post by uaeebs86 »

HanSolo wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 2:29 pm
Yes. I'm in Thailand now, trying it out as a long-term possibility as a retiree. I'm fairly new to Thailand, but not Asia, having spent several years in China/HK/Taiwan. So, in some sense, it's a new and unfamiliar culture to me, but I'm willing to give it a try.


My daughter-in-law's parents are saying they are retiring to Thailand when the youngest graduates high school. (2 years)

She's a Filipino citizen. He is an ex-USAF American whose mom was Thai and moved back there a couple years ago when his grandpa passed.

I wonder how long they will last, but they don't seem all that emotionally tied to their two kids here in Arizona and one in Albuquerque.
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