[Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

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tibbitts
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Re: What happened to VWILX today? (Vanguard’s International Growth Fund)

Post by tibbitts »

ColoRetiredGirl wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 10:53 pm
tooluser wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:45 pm I looked on the Internet and I cannot find what "***** ********" is, but I can guess. (Item in quotes changed to protect the innocent.)

I have owned VWILX's little brother VWIGX in a taxable account for many years, and while the big "payout" is not particularly welcome, it's way better than a loss. The big Tesla run-up in the past year is almost certainly the villain, but it was wearing a clown nose and honking a horn as it went up. Very entertaining.
I got it! The payout is welcome for me. I thought the ex-dividend date was later in the month. I should have checked there first. :oops:
Well, if you mean the payout is welcome vs. the fund just dropping, that's probably appropriate. Otherwise it's kind of a non-event in a tax-advantaged account.
an_asker
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Re: What happened to VWILX today? (Vanguard’s International Growth Fund)

Post by an_asker »

wander wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:41 pm
sycamore wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:32 pm
ColoRetiredGirl wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:21 pm
livesoft wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:34 pm Apparently the fudge farkled for this fund. Please read this:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=364847
I received a message that I am not entitled to read this thread. ☹️
That message "You are not authorized to read this forum" shows up when the forum moderators are doing something with that thread. Possibly they're merging it with another thread, or some other admin-y thing.

Check that link again in 30 minutes.
I guess the title of that thread violates forum policy and the OP's got banned. :D
Some poor soul made a reference to a football team in the northeast but got his initials mixed up :oops:
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LadyGeek
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by LadyGeek »

I want to mention that Fidelity has a good tutorial on their fund distribution website page: Distributions by Fidelity Mutual Funds
Mutual funds that have net gains from the sale of securities, or that earn dividends and interest from securities they hold, are required by law to pass the largest possible portion of those earnings to shareholders...

Why does it look like value of my account went down?

If dividends and capital gains are paid out, it reduces the price of shares, or the net asset value (NAV) of mutual funds. This means the closing price of the investment will drop by the amount that is paid out on the Ex Dividend Date (Ex. Date), even though the payment will happen in the future (Pay Date). The total account value is unaffected.

Distributions that aren't set to pay into a core account will be reinvested, and the number of shares in the account will increase...
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Triple digit golfer
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by Triple digit golfer »

Help a dummy here.

Vanguard FTSE all-world Ex-US Index (VFWAX) record date shows 12/16/21, reinvest date 12/17/21, and payable date 12/20/21.

If I invest today (12/17/21) before close of business, I'm not "buying the dividend," correct? In other words, today should be the day that the price drops.

Do I have that right and do I have Boglehead approval to proceed with a large purchase?
lstone19
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by lstone19 »

Triple digit golfer wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:10 am Help a dummy here.

Vanguard FTSE all-world Ex-US Index (VFWAX) record date shows 12/16/21, reinvest date 12/17/21, and payable date 12/20/21.

If I invest today (12/17/21) before close of business, I'm not "buying the dividend," correct? In other words, today should be the day that the price drops.

Do I have that right and do I have Boglehead approval to proceed with a large purchase?
Yes, you are correct. You had to own it at end of market day on 12/16 to receive the dividend. The price will drop today and those reinvesting dividends will have them reinvested at today’s price. Those receiving the dividend in cash will have it paid Monday.
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by Triple digit golfer »

lstone19 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:16 am
Triple digit golfer wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:10 am Help a dummy here.

Vanguard FTSE all-world Ex-US Index (VFWAX) record date shows 12/16/21, reinvest date 12/17/21, and payable date 12/20/21.

If I invest today (12/17/21) before close of business, I'm not "buying the dividend," correct? In other words, today should be the day that the price drops.

Do I have that right and do I have Boglehead approval to proceed with a large purchase?
Yes, you are correct. You had to own it at end of market day on 12/16 to receive the dividend. The price will drop today and those reinvesting dividends will have them reinvested at today’s price. Those receiving the dividend in cash will have it paid Monday.
Thank you for confirming.
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drumboy256
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by drumboy256 »

VASGX just hit today.
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greenway23
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by greenway23 »

Today VXUS was up .64% while VTIAX was only up .26%. In the past I have seen this around the dividend date but this fund’s last quarterly dividend was in mid December. Anyone have an explanation for this?
sidneyinplanning
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by sidneyinplanning »

greenway23 wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:09 pm Today VXUS was up .64% while VTIAX was only up .26%. In the past I have seen this around the dividend date but this fund’s last quarterly dividend was in mid December. Anyone have an explanation for this?
Yes this time is unusual. The NPV of most funds still jumped after dividend distribution but suddenly dropped after Jan 4.
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Ocean77
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by Ocean77 »

One question I have on this topic:

Let's say I purchase a fund for $100. So my cost basis is $100. Right after that, the fund distributes $10, and therefore drops to $90. Let's say I have set it up to reinvest distributions. So now my cost basis becomes $110, correct? Even though I only put $100 into the fund? And with that reinvestment, my fund holding would go back up to $100. But since my cost basis is now $110, it would show this position at a loss of $10, correct?
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lstone19
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by lstone19 »

Ocean77 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:12 pm One question I have on this topic:

Let's say I purchase a fund for $100. So my cost basis is $100. Right after that, the fund distributes $10, and therefore drops to $90. Let's say I have set it up to reinvest distributions. So now my cost basis becomes $110, correct? Even though I only put $100 into the fund? And with that reinvestment, my fund holding would go back up to $100. But since my cost basis is now $110, it would show this position at a loss of $10, correct?
Basically yes. The basis on the original shares remains $100. The basis of the shares purchased by reinvesting the distribution is $10. If you then sold all of it and received $100, you'd now have a $10 taxable distribution and a $10 capital loss.
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Ocean77
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by Ocean77 »

lstone19 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:28 pm
Ocean77 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:12 pm One question I have on this topic:

Let's say I purchase a fund for $100. So my cost basis is $100. Right after that, the fund distributes $10, and therefore drops to $90. Let's say I have set it up to reinvest distributions. So now my cost basis becomes $110, correct? Even though I only put $100 into the fund? And with that reinvestment, my fund holding would go back up to $100. But since my cost basis is now $110, it would show this position at a loss of $10, correct?
Basically yes. The basis on the original shares remains $100. The basis of the shares purchased by reinvesting the distribution is $10. If you then sold all of it and received $100, you'd now have a $10 taxable distribution and a $10 capital loss.
Thank you! I had kind of figured this, but it felt "strange" so I wanted to confirm it. I had always thought that the gain or loss that Fidelity shows me online next to each fund holding tells me exactly how much money so far I have gained or lost in that position. In fact that is not the case at all. I.e. in the example I made above, I did not lose a penny in that fund, but the broker would show a loss of $10. I had not realized until now that it worked like this.
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dbr
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by dbr »

Ocean77 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:01 pm
lstone19 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:28 pm
Ocean77 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:12 pm One question I have on this topic:

Let's say I purchase a fund for $100. So my cost basis is $100. Right after that, the fund distributes $10, and therefore drops to $90. Let's say I have set it up to reinvest distributions. So now my cost basis becomes $110, correct? Even though I only put $100 into the fund? And with that reinvestment, my fund holding would go back up to $100. But since my cost basis is now $110, it would show this position at a loss of $10, correct?
Basically yes. The basis on the original shares remains $100. The basis of the shares purchased by reinvesting the distribution is $10. If you then sold all of it and received $100, you'd now have a $10 taxable distribution and a $10 capital loss.
Thank you! I had kind of figured this, but it felt "strange" so I wanted to confirm it. I had always thought that the gain or loss that Fidelity shows me online next to each fund holding tells me exactly how much money so far I have gained or lost in that position. In fact that is not the case at all. I.e. in the example I made above, I did not lose a penny in that fund, but the broker would show a loss of $10. I had not realized until now that it worked like this.
And that is in order to keep your taxes straight. But distributions, gains, losses, as they are entered in your current or future tax returns are not the same thing as tracking your investments. Tracking the fund NAV doesn't do the job either, which is why fund companies have to also publish return data. And that also does not do the job because you may not hold the fund for a full period of time as a constant investment, so you have to calculate a "personal" return to know what happened. Or, even simpler, just look at how much money you have.
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Ocean77
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by Ocean77 »

dbr wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:35 am
Ocean77 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:01 pm
lstone19 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:28 pm
Ocean77 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:12 pm One question I have on this topic:

Let's say I purchase a fund for $100. So my cost basis is $100. Right after that, the fund distributes $10, and therefore drops to $90. Let's say I have set it up to reinvest distributions. So now my cost basis becomes $110, correct? Even though I only put $100 into the fund? And with that reinvestment, my fund holding would go back up to $100. But since my cost basis is now $110, it would show this position at a loss of $10, correct?
Basically yes. The basis on the original shares remains $100. The basis of the shares purchased by reinvesting the distribution is $10. If you then sold all of it and received $100, you'd now have a $10 taxable distribution and a $10 capital loss.
Thank you! I had kind of figured this, but it felt "strange" so I wanted to confirm it. I had always thought that the gain or loss that Fidelity shows me online next to each fund holding tells me exactly how much money so far I have gained or lost in that position. In fact that is not the case at all. I.e. in the example I made above, I did not lose a penny in that fund, but the broker would show a loss of $10. I had not realized until now that it worked like this.
And that is in order to keep your taxes straight. But distributions, gains, losses, as they are entered in your current or future tax returns are not the same thing as tracking your investments. Tracking the fund NAV doesn't do the job either, which is why fund companies have to also publish return data. And that also does not do the job because you may not hold the fund for a full period of time as a constant investment, so you have to calculate a "personal" return to know what happened. Or, even simpler, just look at how much money you have.
Makes sense, thanks!

It would certainly be nice though if the brokerage would do this personal return calculation for me as well. They (Fidelity anyway) already do that for the entire portfolio, but not per fund.
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Atlinvest
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by Atlinvest »

I was impacted by the capital gain distribution in the target date 2040 fund, held in a taxable account unfortunately. Using round numbers, for $100k holding I was hit with $15k long term capital gain.

As some have noted above, this now creates and unrealized capital loss in the account. Is it accurate to say that I can sell the full $100k holding now, generate capital losses, and replace with the same underlying mix of holdings (probably switch to ETFs for the stock and bond holding), then just apply these capital losses to offset future capital gains? I want to get out of this target fund due to the uncontrolled tax treatment, so that seems like the best option.

Thanks
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LadyGeek
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by LadyGeek »

Welcome! The ongoing discussion is here: Target date funds ... so much for "set and forget" [and WSJ article]

If you need assistance with your portfolio, may I suggest you start a new thread in the Personal Investments forum and post your portfolio information in that thread using the Asking Portfolio Questions format? It will make you think about the "big picture" while giving us the information we need to point you in the right direction.

If you have any questions, ask them in the new thread.
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by vrr106 »

Atlinvest wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:46 am I was impacted by the capital gain distribution in the target date 2040 fund, held in a taxable account unfortunately. Using round numbers, for $100k holding I was hit with $15k long term capital gain.

As some have noted above, this now creates and unrealized capital loss in the account. Is it accurate to say that I can sell the full $100k holding now, generate capital losses, and replace with the same underlying mix of holdings (probably switch to ETFs for the stock and bond holding), then just apply these capital losses to offset future capital gains? I want to get out of this target fund due to the uncontrolled tax treatment, so that seems like the best option.

Thanks
I did exactly this in 2022 - the target date both had higher expenses and was resulting in cap gains. Just make sure you calculate the loss/gain, in my case I had enough losses from other sources to offset any gains
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Whakamole
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by Whakamole »

Vanguard is starting to post dividends for June. Some US ETFs (VTI) haven't been posted yet, but mutual funds and foreign ETFs are set.
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by jebmke »

Whakamole wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 9:28 am Vanguard is starting to post dividends for June. Some US ETFs (VTI) haven't been posted yet, but mutual funds and foreign ETFs are set.
none of my US MFs have declared
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livesoft
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by livesoft »

Quarterly dividends are starting to show up as many ticker symbols start going ex-dividend today and this week.
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by UpperNwGuy »

Good to know. I looked up the dividend payment schedules for Vanguard, BlackRock, and Schwab and was surprised to see several ETFs not paying out their September dividends until early October. In my case that would be VOO and ITOT.
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by soretired »

Happened to me yesterday & I freaked for about 5 seconds and then remembered it's dividend/capital gains season. :moneybag
acuser
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Fidelity Total Market(FSKAX) Down 1.31%

Post by acuser »

Im probably missing something but trying to understand how Fidelity Total Market(FSKAX) is down today -1.31% when 7 out of ten top holdings were up

today. Indexes were mostly up SP500 -.36, dow +56.81, nasdaq +52.36. I just dont see how that can be correct, maybe FSKAX follows something im

not familiar with but Ive had it for many years and dont recall ever seeing anything this extreme from the indexes.



[I merged acuser’s topic into the existing discussion. Thanks to the member who reported the post - Moderator ClaycordJCA.]
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Re: Fidelity Total Market(FSKAX) Down 1.31%

Post by nalor511 »

Dividends, coming soon.
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Re: Fidelity Total Market(FSKAX) Down 1.31%

Post by Wiggums »

acuser wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:02 pm Im probably missing something but trying to understand how Fidelity Total Market(FSKAX) is down today -1.31% when 7 out of ten top holdings were up

today. Indexes were mostly up SP500 -.36, dow +56.81, nasdaq +52.36. I just dont see how that can be correct, maybe FSKAX follows something im

not familiar with but Ive had it for many years and dont recall ever seeing anything this extreme from the indexes.
A lot of the sectors were in the red today.
https://www.bloomberg.com/markets/sectors
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Re: Fidelity Total Market(FSKAX) Down 1.31%

Post by acuser »

Oh my,that just didnt come to my mind, but should have. lol. Thanks for your response
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Re: Fidelity Total Market(FSKAX) Down 1.31%

Post by Bwise1 »

Dividend issued today for the fund.

Ex.Date 12/15/2023 Amount $1.61 per share
Pay Date 12/18/2023
acuser
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Re: Fidelity Total Market(FSKAX) Down 1.31%

Post by acuser »

Bwise1 wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:18 pm Dividend issued today for the fund.

Ex.Date 12/15/2023 Amount $1.61 per share
Pay Date 12/18/2023
Thank you for the info. If you dont mind sharing where did you find that information?
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Re: Fidelity Total Market(FSKAX) Down 1.31%

Post by protagonist »

A lot of Fidelity funds have capital gains distributions and pay dividends in December.
Check to see if that was the case. That would explain it.
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Re: Fidelity Total Market(FSKAX) Down 1.31%

Post by acuser »

I see that now, I just posted too quickly. Thanks guys
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Re: Fidelity Total Market(FSKAX) Down 1.31%

Post by bonesly »

acuser wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:28 pm
Bwise1 wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:18 pm Dividend issued today for the fund.

Ex.Date 12/15/2023 Amount $1.61 per share
Pay Date 12/18/2023
Thank you for the info. If you dont mind sharing where did you find that information?
Probably can find it on Fidelity's Site.
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Re: Fidelity Total Market(FSKAX) Down 1.31%

Post by Bwise1 »

acuser wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:28 pm
Bwise1 wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:18 pm Dividend issued today for the fund.

Ex.Date 12/15/2023 Amount $1.61 per share
Pay Date 12/18/2023
Thank you for the info. If you dont mind sharing where did you find that information?
Click on the position and then Events tab.
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Re: Fidelity Total Market(FSKAX) Down 1.31%

Post by lstone19 »

protagonist wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:30 pm A lot of Fidelity funds have capital gains distributions and pay dividends in December.
Check to see if that was the case. That would explain it.
More specifically, most Fidelity funds are divided across the Fridays in December (first four in a five Friday month like this year). Funds of funds will pay two or three days before the end of the year (12/28 this year).
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Wellington Fund

Post by Norwegianwood »

[Thread merged into here --admin LadyGeek]

The Wellington Fund has been doing well thIs year but lost over 4% today. It wasn’t a particularly bad day in the market. Anyone know what happened?
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Re: Wellington Fund

Post by TheTimeLord »

I would look to see if they distributed a dividend or capital gains.
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Re: Wellington Fund

Post by PDX_Traveler »

Almost certainly:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=129142
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Re: Wellington Fund

Post by jebmke »

PDX_Traveler wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:34 pm Almost certainly:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=129142
'tis the season
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by LadyGeek »

I merged Norwegianwood's thread into the ongoing discussion.

(Thanks to the member who reported the post and provided a link to this thread.)
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by RetiredAL »

When viewed as a Positions View, FSKAX has a "D" within circle next to it. The "D" stand for Dividend. This is their quick way they tell people that a dividend was X'd from the NAV at close today.

As previously stated, clicking FSKAX and the events tab will show you the detail of the dividend.

FXAIX and FSPGX were also X'd today.
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nedsaid
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by nedsaid »

Yep. Time to go Christmas shopping. I know it is time when I see this thread and similar threads pop up. It seems like "Fund Distributions" ought to go on the Advent calendar. Anyhow, Happy Holidays. Everyone have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. We are also in Hanukah season, I want to recognize those celebrating that season as well.
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Re: Fidelity Total Market(FSKAX) Down 1.31%

Post by protagonist »

lstone19 wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:29 pm
protagonist wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:30 pm A lot of Fidelity funds have capital gains distributions and pay dividends in December.
Check to see if that was the case. That would explain it.
More specifically, most Fidelity funds are divided across the Fridays in December (first four in a five Friday month like this year). Funds of funds will pay two or three days before the end of the year (12/28 this year).
Yes, I know. I own one, and it is a source of frustration, since I never know until last minute how much the distribution will be...then I have to scramble with end of the year planning.
I wish I never invested in a "fund of funds". Now I have such high unrealized gains that I don't want to sell for tax reasons.
printer86
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by printer86 »

nedsaid wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 8:23 pm Yep. Time to go Christmas shopping. I know it is time when I see this thread and similar threads pop up. It seems like "Fund Distributions" ought to go on the Advent calendar. Anyhow, Happy Holidays. Everyone have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. We are also in Hanukah season, I want to recognize those celebrating that season as well.
Happy "Why did my fund go down today?" day to all those that celebrate. :beer
USCRx
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Vanguard Wellington NAV drop

Post by USCRx »

[Merged into existing discussion - moderator oldcomputerguy]

Checked my IRA today, and saw that Vanguard Wellington's NAV dropped 4.41% in one day today. Anyone know why that happened?
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Re: Vanguard Wellington NAV drop

Post by Fclevz »

Dividend and capital gain distribution
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Re: Vanguard Wellington NAV drop

Post by USCRx »

That's right - Thanks!
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nedsaid
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by nedsaid »

printer86 wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:50 pm
nedsaid wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 8:23 pm Yep. Time to go Christmas shopping. I know it is time when I see this thread and similar threads pop up. It seems like "Fund Distributions" ought to go on the Advent calendar. Anyhow, Happy Holidays. Everyone have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. We are also in Hanukah season, I want to recognize those celebrating that season as well.
Happy "Why did my fund go down today?" day to all those that celebrate. :beer
Yes, a very grand Boglehead tradition to go along with Taylor Larimore's annual "My Gift to You" thread. Two great traditions for the Holidays!

For those of you who are new to the forum, Taylor was in Bastogne, Belgium during Christmas of 1944 during the famous Battle of the Bulge. He was a paratrooper in the 101st Airborne Division. Taylor is still going strong on the forum and in life at 99 years of age. He turns 100 years of age in January 2024. He starts a new "My Gift to You" thread every year
just before Christmas. For me it is a cherished tradition.

The "Why did my fund go down today?" is a fun Boglehead holiday tradition, "My Gift to You" is a serious one.
A fool and his money are good for business.
montanagirl
Posts: 1805
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:55 pm
Location: Montana

Re: Vanguard Wellington NAV drop

Post by montanagirl »

Fclevz wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 11:36 pm Dividend and capital gain distribution
If it's reinvested it shouldn't change that much should it? :confused
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ResearchMed
Posts: 16795
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:25 pm

Re: Vanguard Wellington NAV drop

Post by ResearchMed »

montanagirl wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:45 am
Fclevz wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 11:36 pm Dividend and capital gain distribution
If it's reinvested it shouldn't change that much should it? :confused

It won't change the total *value* of your holding.
But it *does* change the value of each share, and simultaneously adds a bit more to the total number of shares that you have... making it the same $$ amount.

RM
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