Pull-ups and Push-ups

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Sandtrap
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Sandtrap »

CFM300 wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:54 pm
Sandtrap wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:24 pm For fragile folks there has to be some sort of balance between walking and body weight exercises?
Non medical suggestions?
...
Not sure if I could do one push-up or pull up without paying somewhere for the effort.
Scaling + reasonable progressions. Can you stand about a foot from a wall, place your hands on the wall, and perform a push-up? Once you can do, say, 3 sets of 10 repetitions of those, move to the kitchen counter. Then a bench (securely wedged against a wall). Then onto the ground, but on your knees rather than your toes. Then into a full plank. You can also progress the depth of the movement (more or less elbow flexion). The same principles apply to pull ups and squats and deadlifts and even running a 5K or climbing a mountain.
Thanks for the help.
Will try it.

Maybe it will help my figure as well……….
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by telemark »

You can do assisted pullups and pushups using a suspension trainer and work your way up gradually. I own an earlier model of the Lifeline Jungle Gym and am happy to recommend it. You can use it with only a door, although an overhead bar allows for more exercises.

Do pay attention to your elbows, though; it's easy to tweak them doing pullups.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

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If bodyweight exercises are good enough for the USMC, who am I to argue.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by roamingzebra »

Sandtrap wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:24 pm For fragile folks there has to be some sort of balance between walking and body weight exercises?
Non medical suggestions?
From what I've observed, posture is key. Exercises that fix bad posture and promote good posture tend to lead to all-body health. As good as walking is, walking with bad form -- like with the body bent forward -- is mainly going to be good for cardio, not for the proper functioning of the bones and muscles.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Sandtrap »

roamingzebra wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 2:47 pm
Sandtrap wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:24 pm For fragile folks there has to be some sort of balance between walking and body weight exercises?
Non medical suggestions?
From what I've observed, posture is key. Exercises that fix bad posture and promote good posture tend to lead to all-body health. As good as walking is, walking with bad form -- like with the body bent forward -- is mainly going to be good for cardio, not for the proper functioning of the bones and muscles.
Yes.
Well said.
And, it can be said that working on good posture is therapy and rehabilitative as well.
Various rehab centers and PTs have worked in my slouch and sag and shuffle. While I “think” I’m straight up and A OK, it is not.
Assisted pull-ups might help.
Never tried it.
*(Exercise not medical topic)*

Humor:
Reminds me of that “Charlie Brown” comic strip where he calls it his “posture of low self esteem”. Looks kyphotic.
A PT gave me this comic strip 10 years ago and it’s still on my office door.
DW reminds me, stand up straight. I say I can’t, I have no “self esteem”!(silly)

*Actionably and on topic:

Would stepping on a low step stool work for assisted pull-ups for “ExerCise”????

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by roamingzebra »

Sandtrap wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:02 am Reminds me of that “Charlie Brown” comic strip where he calls it his “posture of low self esteem”. Looks kyphotic.
A PT gave me this comic strip 10 years ago and it’s still on my office door.
DW reminds me, stand up straight. I say I can’t, I have no “self esteem”!(silly)

*Actionably and on topic:

Would stepping on a low step stool work for assisted pull-ups for “ExerCise”????

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Love the Charlie Brown quote. I remember one where Linus says, "I'm not fat. I just have a husky stomach." :D

I'll leave it to the pull-up/push-up experts to answer your specific question. I'll just add what the basic approach is to fixing posture. These are common trouble areas:

1. Forward Head Posture (FHP) - caused by bending over smart phones and computers all day. Or by low self-esteem where you're walking around with your head down. ;) Did you know that the human head is heavy in terms of weight? It needs to be supported properly by the neck/spine. When it's constantly lowered, it drags the whole body down.

2. Anterior Pelvic Tilt (APT) - excessive swayback. The stomach can protrude even though you're not fat, so this may be what Linus was talking about.

3. Hunched Shoulders - self-explanatory

All three can come about from excessive sitting. Sitting results in weak abs and glutes which are core muscles involved in good posture.

The remediation approach is to figure out which muscle area is the problem then find exercises that target that area.

Many of the exercises you hear fitness gurus talking about are both for full-body toning and for improving posture so it's not like one has to do a super-specialized routine. There's a history of back problems in my family, so for many years I've done a routine that targets the back. The routine wasn't designed for me but rather was an exercise sheet for someone else handed out by a physical therapist. I'd share the name of the exercises, but none of the exercises were named on the sheet. One that I've since found with a name is the Bridge. The Bridge is an exercise in many fitness routines and is considered excellent for strengthening the core.

https://www.sweat.com/blogs/fitness/bridge-exercises

None of this is a recommendation for you specifically but simply gives an idea of how one might approach tweaking their posture and improving overall fitness at the same time.

Also, I'd add that many exercises recommended today are the same as exercises recommended in previous decades, but they've added the safety measure of bent knees. I'm not sure if this is to protect the back, knees or some other part of the body, but push-ups and sit-ups come to mind. I understand it's safer to do both of those exercises with bent knees, but that's something the fitness experts on this thread can help you with or you can answer through your own research.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

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Rayandron wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:14 am From the Boglehead wiki:
the most important idea underlying the Bogleheads approach to investing is recognizing you need to save a significant portion of income every month to have enough money for a comfortable retirement. There is no substitute for spending less than you earn. Live below your means. If you don't save enough, no amount of financial trickery will provide the returns needed for a comfortable retirement.
My exercise translation:
The most important idea to health is recognizing your body is not designed for a sedentary existence and you need to utilize it a significant amount every month to maximize the likelihood of a long and healthy retirement. There is no substitute for having a physical activity to engage in on a regular basis, regardless of what your preferred activity is. In the same way that a savings rate dominates portfolio allocation in investing, consistent/long-term activity level dominates activity selection. If you want to fine tune from there, the exercise theory rabbit hole goes just as deep as the financial theory rabbit hole, and has just as many marketing and sales efforts trying to obfuscate the matter.
Continuing Bogleheads/investing analogies as above, I was in a discussion about exercise (weights and bands, specifically) just yesterday on a retirement forum on another web site. I’m the sort of (older) guy who isn’t big into weights, but I recognize that maintaining muscle strength is an essential part of a well rounded fitness program, so was seeking the advice of more serious weight lifting fans. Two things occurred to me:
- opinions on the “right” way to do strength training are a lot like opinions on international investing - all over the map with no answer perfectly suited to everyone.
- the ideal fitness program is like a Life-Cycle or Target Date fund: a good, sensible mix of diversified, age-appropriate exercises that you can stick with over the long haul. You won’t end up as an Olympic power lifter or win the Boston Marathon, nut you’ll get better-than-average results.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

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I'm pushing 75 years old at this point. Every MWF morning I still set the Tabata timer on my phone for 30 minutes and complete 100 pull-ups in 20 sets of 5 reps.

Alternate days I do 200 jumping jacks + 100 squats (or 100 squat jumps), and 100 pushups. On Saturdays I do 100 hanging knee raises. Occasionally I'll do burpees, which are really hard! I've added "child's pose" as an easy, basic stretch.

If a workout takes longer than 30 or 40 minutes, that's okay. I resist complaining or beating myself up.

Q: How long can I continue to do this?
A: Until I can't.

The workout is built into my day. It's what helps keep me sane. In fact, my bodyweight workout has helped me get through so much in the last several years, including some challenging health issues.

I hope everyone is taking care of themselves!
Last edited by Jazztonight on Thu Jun 02, 2022 11:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by CFM300 »

Apologies, in advance, for what I'm about to do, but I can't resist.
friar1610 wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:00 pm You won’t end up as an Olympic power lifter...
Correct. Because there's no such thing.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

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Jazztonight wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:55 am I'm pushing 75 years old at this point.
...100 pull-ups
...200 jumping jacks
...100 squats
...100 pushups
...100 hanging knee raises
...burpees
I like your routine. Impressive!
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by friar1610 »

CFM300 wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:56 pm Apologies, in advance, for what I'm about to do, but I can't resist.
friar1610 wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:00 pm You won’t end up as an Olympic power lifter...
Correct. Because there's no such thing.
I’m sure you’re making a point that’s too subtle for me to grasp and that’s fine. But, for my education, why are the weights (plates) with the big holes that go on the larger diameter bars referred to as “Olympic weights”?
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

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friar1610 wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 2:33 pm why are the weights (plates) with the big holes that go on the larger diameter bars referred to as “Olympic weights”?
"Olympic" plates fit on "Olympic" bars, which have rotating sleeves so that one can perform the "Olympic" lifts: the snatch and the clean & jerk.

I keep putting "Olympic" in quotes, because the sport is actually called weightlifting. There's another sport, called powerlifting, which is comprised of the squat, bench press, and deadlift.

Weightlifting is in the Olympics (for now). Powerlifting is not.
Last edited by CFM300 on Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

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CFM300 wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:07 pm
friar1610 wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 2:33 pm why are the weights (plates) with the big holes that go on the larger diameter bars referred to as “Olympic weights”?
"Standard" barbells are approximately 1" in diameter, and "standard" plates have a slightly larger inner hole.

"Olympic" barbells range in diameter from 25mm (women's) to 30mm or more, but have rotating sleeves in order to facilitate the "Olympic" lifts (snatch + clean & jerk). The diameter of the rotating sleeve is 50mm, and "Olympic" plates have a slightly larger inner hole to fit.

But that wasn't the point of my comment.

Powerlifting is the sport comprised of the squat, bench, and deadlift. Weightlifting is the sport with just the snatch and the clean & jerk. Weightlifting is in the Olympics (for now). Powerlifting is not.
Got it; thanks.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by rocket354 »

I've seen a few people ask about getting into pull-ups. Hangs and kipping may work, but the one that worked best for me was lat pulls in the gym--to the front, top of your chest. If you work your way up the weight stack in lat pulls by the time you get to your bodyweight you'll be good to go for pullups. I did it that way. Was never able to do a pullup my entire life (was the stereotypical fat kid). Then once I got to bodyweight+ in lat pull, I did 10 pullups the very first time I was able to do any at all.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by h82goslw »

Jazztonight wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:55 am I'm pushing 75 years old at this point. Every MWF morning I still set the Tabata timer on my phone for 30 minutes and complete 100 pull-ups in 20 sets of 5 reps.

Alternate days I do 200 jumping jacks + 100 squats + 100 pushups. On Saturdays I do 100 hanging knee raises. Occasionally I'll do burpees, which are really hard!

If a workout takes longer than 30 or 40 minutes, that's okay. I resist complaining or beating myself up.

Q: How long can I continue to do this?
A: Until I can't.

The workout is built into my day. It's what helps keep me sane. In fact, my bodyweight workout has helped me get through so much in the last several years, including some challenging health issues.

I hope everyone is taking care of themselves!
Thank you for sharing this. I’ve worked out pretty religiously for many years and am constantly dealing with different types of injuries, minor and major, as I get older. Love to see folks like you going strong, very strong. I can only hope to be as half as good as you at this age.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

During lockdown I discovered yoqi - its free yoga-qi gong fusion videos on youtube hosted by Marisa Cranfill. Most are 15-20 minutes and can be done in any comfortable clothing any time of day.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

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I’ve realized that there’s so much to do in daily chores and equipment and maintenance on our 20 acre horse mini ranch that my daily and weekly routines dwarf anything I might do in my home gym of fitness program and so forth.
No cane, 2 canes, feel great or not so great, the chores still have to get done. And perhaps, more fun than push-ups or sit-ups which I can’t medically do anyway.

Tai chi.
Make fitness fun.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Cruise »

Just noticed this thread for the first time.

During the earliest stage of the pandemic when my community was in total lock down, I saw to guys doing the ultimate in body weight exercises: Running up hill while taking turns carrying one another on their shoulders. It was a truly amazing site that gave me faith in the coping skills of mankind.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

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The answer is always Peloton!
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Kagord »

Jazztonight wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:55 am I'm pushing 75 years old at this point. Every MWF morning I still set the Tabata timer on my phone for 30 minutes and complete 100 pull-ups in 20 sets of 5 reps.

Alternate days I do 200 jumping jacks + 100 squats + 100 pushups. On Saturdays I do 100 hanging knee raises. Occasionally I'll do burpees, which are really hard!
I hope to be able to do this at your age, congrats!
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by mr_brightside »

that's a great workout. :sharebeer

I'm 50s and still incorporate medium-heavy weights ... but nothing at all wrong with BW workouts to achieve / maintain excellent fitness.

keep moving !! :D

as I've aged -- I pay a lot more attention to how my body feels. when I was younger -- I'd 'fight through it'... no pain / no gain and all that. those days are long gone. 8-)

------------------------------------
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Ramjet »

Jazztonight wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:55 am I'm pushing 75 years old at this point. Every MWF morning I still set the Tabata timer on my phone for 30 minutes and complete 100 pull-ups in 20 sets of 5 reps.

Alternate days I do 200 jumping jacks + 100 squats + 100 pushups. On Saturdays I do 100 hanging knee raises. Occasionally I'll do burpees, which are really hard!

If a workout takes longer than 30 or 40 minutes, that's okay. I resist complaining or beating myself up.

Q: How long can I continue to do this?
A: Until I can't.

The workout is built into my day. It's what helps keep me sane. In fact, my bodyweight workout has helped me get through so much in the last several years, including some challenging health issues.

I hope everyone is taking care of themselves!
Very impressive! I switched to bw exercises during the pandemic and just recently went back to the gym. Not sure if this has been covered earlier in the thread but I'm curious as to how your workouts looked when you were younger and how have they changed over the years. Same question for your diet.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Ramjet »

rocket354 wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:49 pm I've seen a few people ask about getting into pull-ups. Hangs and kipping may work, but the one that worked best for me was lat pulls in the gym--to the front, top of your chest. If you work your way up the weight stack in lat pulls by the time you get to your bodyweight you'll be good to go for pullups. I did it that way. Was never able to do a pullup my entire life (was the stereotypical fat kid). Then once I got to bodyweight+ in lat pull, I did 10 pullups the very first time I was able to do any at all.
Great way to get better at pullups is to buy assistance bands and do assisted pullups. Buy different resistance levels and work your way up. Agree on lat pull down machine as well. Also, negatives on the lat pull down would help too
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

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Ramjet wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:01 am Very impressive! I switched to bw exercises during the pandemic and just recently went back to the gym. Not sure if this has been covered earlier in the thread but I'm curious as to how your workouts looked when you were younger and how have they changed over the years. Same question for your diet.
Good questions.
1. How workouts have changed through the years: I was in high school when JFK instituted his physical fitness program. The first time I took the test I failed. The second time I passed. I recall it including pull-ups and running. (Perhaps pull-ups are part of a military fitness test these days, but I'm not sure.) In high school we lifted weights, played sports, and wrestled, etc. As an adult I've always done a lot of walking, some running, some volleyball, maybe some tennis. In grad school I took up handball. I've never been a great athlete, but I participated. In my early 50s I started gaining weight and didn't feel comfortable. I began a search for the right exercise program for me, and tried P90X and my own variations. That's when I started doing pull-ups again (it took 6 months to be able to do 10 in a row; these days I only do 5 in a row, then rest; Once I did 28, but who cares?). I get a better workout at home than I do in the gym, but that's just me. I have a great pull-up bar, pushup stands, and that's it for equipment.

Over the years I've adapted my workout, especially after I got muscle and rotator cuff strains from lifting weights. In 1970 I walked across America, 2,644 miles in 170 days. That was the only exercise I did during that time (it took 2 tries, btw, because of a heat dome).

2. Diet - Ha! My diet has changed drastically over the decades. I no longer drink alcohol, and while I eat "real fish" (salmon; cod; tuna; halibut, etc.), I do not eat meat, chicken, or shellfish, etc. I enjoy Beyond burgers and sausages. I eat vegetables every day, rice, popcorn, and other carbs (I'm avoiding pasta and white potatoes). I like dessert, but am going easy on it for now.

I weigh myself regularly, and for the past 10 or 15 years have stayed in a 5-pound range.
Last edited by Jazztonight on Thu Jun 02, 2022 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

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Before the gym craze, people danced! And not just for exercise, to escape mentally whatever was going on. During lockdown, I rolled out dance music from the 40s-80s and chose a genre from a specific period for impromptu cardio dance. Any age can do it and it‘s fun.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

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I'm bumping this thread to say that I'm back on body weight exercises. From: Subject: Older Women Lifting Weights
LadyGeek wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 3:38 pm Yes, thanks for reviving this topic. I can't emphasize enough the importance of correct form.

Last year, I was doing just fine with my set of Bowflex SelectTech 552 Adjustable Dumbbells. Or so I thought. Early last year, I was doing squats with 80 - 100 lbs. For some reason my knee started hurting.

Very long story short, the orthopedic doc said I was using the wrong technique and mucked up my knee. Welcome to arthritis and getting older. :annoyed

I'm restricted from playing impact sports (such as tennis) and to lay off the weights. I'm playing pickleball every day - which my orthopedic doc said was fine.

I've switched to body weight exercises, including a lower body PT routine to strengthen my knees. I also do push-ups, planks, and pull-ups.

Going through this (not) fun adventure has taught me to ignore what other people are doing. Don't let your ego get the better of you. If someone can lift more than you can, OK. They are not you.

However, you should exercise with emotional intensity - but do so in a safe manner. Every rep should be your best effort. Go for it. If you can't, then have the sense to stop.
I was doing squats incorrectly by placing my squat knee position forward from my feet. The correct position is to have your knee in-line with your feet. I didn't realize that and messed up the knee.

My workout -
- 10 pushups
- Lower body strengthening program for knees, provided by a physical therapist (under doctor direction)
- planks, 90 S

Later in the day -
- Elliptical for 10 minutes
- 5 Pullups (somewhat assisted)

This is in addition to playing pickleball 2 hours every day.

FYI - You can find the exercise threads in the forum sticky: Compendium of general consumer issues threads
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by LISD »

"I was doing squats incorrectly by placing my squat knee position forward from my feet. The correct position is to have your knee in-line with your feet. I didn't realize that and messed up the knee."

Sorry to hear about your knee. It takes me forever (years) to recover from these things. I hope you can recover quickly.

To understand this: It sounds like you were doing Split Squats, as shown here:

https://exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadri ... SplitSquat.

So was your left knee (if done as shown in the above video) moving ahead of your left foot? That was the incorrect form you are referring to?

I've been recently doing door squats. I like them because my knees don't have to carry my full body weight, and because I'm using my arms it is a very stable position. For these reasons it seems pretty safe - at least for starting out. This was recommended to me by my PT.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=htt ... AdAAAAABAD
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by stoptothink »

LadyGeek wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 8:01 am I'm bumping this thread to say that I'm back on body weight exercises. From: Subject: Older Women Lifting Weights
LadyGeek wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 3:38 pm Yes, thanks for reviving this topic. I can't emphasize enough the importance of correct form.

Last year, I was doing just fine with my set of Bowflex SelectTech 552 Adjustable Dumbbells. Or so I thought. Early last year, I was doing squats with 80 - 100 lbs. For some reason my knee started hurting.

Very long story short, the orthopedic doc said I was using the wrong technique and mucked up my knee. Welcome to arthritis and getting older. :annoyed

I'm restricted from playing impact sports (such as tennis) and to lay off the weights. I'm playing pickleball every day - which my orthopedic doc said was fine.

I've switched to body weight exercises, including a lower body PT routine to strengthen my knees. I also do push-ups, planks, and pull-ups.

Going through this (not) fun adventure has taught me to ignore what other people are doing. Don't let your ego get the better of you. If someone can lift more than you can, OK. They are not you.

However, you should exercise with emotional intensity - but do so in a safe manner. Every rep should be your best effort. Go for it. If you can't, then have the sense to stop.
I was doing squats incorrectly by placing my squat knee position forward from my feet. The correct position is to have your knee in-line with your feet. I didn't realize that and messed up the knee.
Proper squatting form and depth is totally dependent on an individuals anatomy. In general, pushing the knees forward as you squat, moving them in-line with your toes, is advised https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR39TGeH0Ck
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Seasonal »

stoptothink wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 4:17 pm Proper squatting form and depth is totally dependent on an individuals anatomy. In general, pushing the knees forward as you squat, moving them in-line with your toes, is advised
Yes.

Also:

From a doctor, powerlifter and prominent coach: "I do not think a toes-forward stance presents inherent danger to the knees. https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/forum ... ing-squats "

"One of the biggest training myths out there is that the knees shouldn’t travel forward past the toes during a squat https://www.physio-network.com/blog/kne ... -or-truth/

Some of the links here are helpful: https://www.reddit.com/r/BarbellMedicin ... poor_form/
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by LadyGeek »

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll discuss them with my doctor the next time I see him.

I'm going to a an orthopedic practice that specializes in sports medicine. As soon as I told the doctor I'm an engineer, he started drawing force vector diagrams on the exam table. :) When I showed him what I was doing, he said it was wrong. He's also adamant about not putting excess stress on the knee.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Seasonal »

LadyGeek wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 5:52 pm Thanks for the suggestions. I'll discuss them with my doctor the next time I see him.

I'm going to a an orthopedic practice that specializes in sports medicine. As soon as I told the doctor I'm an engineer, he started drawing force vector diagrams on the exam table. :) When I showed him what I was doing, he said it was wrong. He's also adamant about not putting excess stress on the knee.
This reminds me of two episodes from the past few years.

One was an exercise message board discussion involving a widely known strength coach and an MD who was a competitive powerlifter. The strength coach put forth force vector stick figures to try to prove a point about efficient olympic lifting form. The MD said human physiology is highly complex and vector diagrams were too reductionist to be useful. A physicist who taught at MIT and who did olympic lifting pitched in and tried to translate the vector diagrams into something more realistic for human physiology. Sadly, the strength coach ran the message board and deleted the conversation when it was apparent he was not wining the discussion.

The other involved a close friend who had a severe hip pain issue. She saw an orthopedic surgeon who, when she described her weight training, told her that she should never deadlift or else risk permanent damage. Her coach suggested rack pulls and she's now doing rack pulls which are indistinguishable from deadlifts. Her hips and back are better than ever.

Excess stress is a bad idea, almost by definition. Progressive loading, with the goal of strengthening the relevant body parts to handle the stress, is often a good idea, so long as one starts with a weight that can be moved comfortably and one proceeds slowly and carefully.

Good luck!
Cruise
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Cruise »

Seasonal wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 7:31 pm
LadyGeek wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 5:52 pm Thanks for the suggestions. I'll discuss them with my doctor the next time I see him.

I'm going to a an orthopedic practice that specializes in sports medicine. As soon as I told the doctor I'm an engineer, he started drawing force vector diagrams on the exam table. :) When I showed him what I was doing, he said it was wrong. He's also adamant about not putting excess stress on the knee.
This reminds me of two episodes from the past few years.

One was an exercise message board discussion involving a widely known strength coach and an MD who was a competitive powerlifter. The strength coach put forth force vector stick figures to try to prove a point about efficient olympic lifting form. The MD said human physiology is highly complex and vector diagrams were too reductionist to be useful. A physicist who taught at MIT and who did olympic lifting pitched in and tried to translate the vector diagrams into something more realistic for human physiology. Sadly, the strength coach ran the message board and deleted the conversation when it was apparent he was not wining the discussion.

The other involved a close friend who had a severe hip pain issue. She saw an orthopedic surgeon who, when she described her weight training, told her that she should never deadlift or else risk permanent damage. Her coach suggested rack pulls and she's now doing rack pulls which are indistinguishable from deadlifts. Her hips and back are better than ever.

Excess stress is a bad idea, almost by definition. Progressive loading, with the goal of strengthening the relevant body parts to handle the stress, is often a good idea, so long as one starts with a weight that can be moved comfortably and one proceeds slowly and carefully.

Good luck!
As my physical therapist of over 20 years says:

1) Stay active.
2) I'll see you back, because it is only a matter of time that you'll be injured.
3) Don't lift heavy weights. Your body is not capable of that anymore.
4) Do exercises that lengthen the muscles.
Last edited by Cruise on Tue May 17, 2022 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Seasonal
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Seasonal »

Cruise wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 7:39 pm As my of over 20 years says:

1) Stay active.
2) I'll see you back, because it is only a matter of time that you'll be injured.
3) Don't lift heavy weights. Your body is not capable of that anymore.
4) Do exercises that lengthen the muscles.
Your what of over 20 years? Who is this aimed at?

What research does your person have to support these views?
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by LadyGeek »

Let's not get into medical discussions, please. Showing research to prove a point is outside the guidelines of this forum. The reasons medical advice is not permitted in this forum:

1. This is an anonymous internet forum. It is not possible to verify anyone's identity (nor do we want to). Credentials also imply accurate advice, which may not always be the case.
2. There can be disagreement among experts, which can be harmful if someone is basing a medical decision on the advice.
3. A member's description may be incomplete.
4. Readers will misinterpret the member's description.
5. Readers will misinterpret the given advice.

Since real harm can be done, we do not permit medical advice and is the reason for the first sentence in: Medical Issues
Questions on medical issues are beyond the scope of the forum. If you are looking for medical information online, I suggest you start with the Medical Library Association's User's Guide to Finding and Evaluating Health Information on the Web which, in addition to providing guidance on evaluating health information, includes a list of their top recommended sites.
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Cruise
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Cruise »

Seasonal wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 5:01 am
Cruise wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 7:39 pm As my of over 20 years says:

1) Stay active.
2) I'll see you back, because it is only a matter of time that you'll be injured.
3) Don't lift heavy weights. Your body is not capable of that anymore.
4) Do exercises that lengthen the muscles.
Your what of over 20 years? Who is this aimed at?

What research does your person have to support these views?
Oops…somehow “physical therapist “ never made it to my sentence.
money2churn
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by money2churn »

My routine consists mostly of pushups,pullups and dips with relatively light free-weights mixed in on an alternating day on/off schedule. I aim for "functional" strength and to maintain body tone. I also hike up hills regularly which has made my legs the strongest part of my body and as a side benefit does wonders for cardio.

I've been fortunate to never in my 64 years to have had a serious injury, no broken bones, nada. For me that is the most important thing, avoiding serious injury. Proper technique and knowing ones limits are key, treating one's body with respect which includes, of course, diet. Second most important thing, never stop the routine, no excuses.
Seasonal
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Seasonal »

Cruise wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 7:52 am
Seasonal wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 5:01 am
Cruise wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 7:39 pm As my of over 20 years says:

1) Stay active.
2) I'll see you back, because it is only a matter of time that you'll be injured.
3) Don't lift heavy weights. Your body is not capable of that anymore.
4) Do exercises that lengthen the muscles.
Your what of over 20 years? Who is this aimed at?

What research does your person have to support these views?
Oops…somehow “physical therapist “ never made it to my sentence.
There would seem to be tremendous selection bias in the people physical therapists see and this could skew their views on what people are capable of and what causes injury.
Cruise
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Cruise »

We are not talking research or medical advice here. I’m not suggesting my PT’s advice has a universal fit. I merely shared what I perceived a point of view that contrasts with what is ongoing in this thread. I spent my whole life bulking up for one sport or another. My body can’t take that anymore. Fir the elderly crowd here, the question of whether one’s body is best served by one exercise or another is something to be contemplated.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by stoptothink »

Cruise wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:49 pm We are not talking research or medical advice here. I’m not suggesting my PT’s advice has a universal fit. I merely shared what I perceived a point of view that contrasts with what is ongoing in this thread. I spent my whole life bulking up for one sport or another. My body can’t take that anymore. Fir the elderly crowd here, the question of whether one’s body is best served by one exercise or another is something to be contemplated.
"Bulking up" and strength training are two different things, often with very different goals. I'm a former D1 football player and competitive powerlifter (who also has a PhD in exercise physiology); at 41, powerlifting is definitely contraindicated for me (primarily due to a major injury from a cycling accident), but doing pull-ups and push-ups is absolutely not. If anything, strength training becomes more important as you progress through the lifecycle.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by VictoriaF »

stoptothink wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 4:17 pm Proper squatting form and depth is totally dependent on an individuals anatomy. In general, pushing the knees forward as you squat, moving them in-line with your toes, is advised https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR39TGeH0Ck
Thank you, stoptothink, for a very helpful video.

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by dogbones »

Yes to strength training as we age! Remember, when someone loses balance, falls and injures themself it is very rarely in correct anatomical positioning. An ACL is least likely torn in proper squat positioning. It is so important as we continue to work on ourselves that we pay attention to mobility, as the ability to move in various planes will likely help prevent a catastrophe. Strengthen, lengthen, endure - do what works for you! But no matter what just keep it moving! :sharebeer
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Jazztonight »

dogbones wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 7:02 pm Yes to strength training as we age! Remember, when someone loses balance, falls and injures themself it is very rarely in correct anatomical positioning. An ACL is least likely torn in proper squat positioning. It is so important as we continue to work on ourselves that we pay attention to mobility, as the ability to move in various planes will likely help prevent a catastrophe. Strengthen, lengthen, endure - do what works for you! But no matter what just keep it moving! :sharebeer
More and more I believe that one of the best movements we can "practice" as we age is to just get down on the floor/carpet/mat and then stand up again without using any props except your own body.

What we once viewed as something "normal" becomes a test of strength, endurance, and courage. Perhaps the "fear of falling" would be lessened if we spent more time on the ground!
"What does not destroy me, makes me stronger." Nietzsche
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by sycamore »

Today's google topic of the day was The Great Gama, a wrestler from way back when.

One of his daily routines was 3000 dands, aka Hindu push-ups. Wow!
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by RoadThunder »

Cruise wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 7:39 pm
Seasonal wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 7:31 pm
LadyGeek wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 5:52 pm Thanks for the suggestions. I'll discuss them with my doctor the next time I see him.

I'm going to a an orthopedic practice that specializes in sports medicine. As soon as I told the doctor I'm an engineer, he started drawing force vector diagrams on the exam table. :) When I showed him what I was doing, he said it was wrong. He's also adamant about not putting excess stress on the knee.
This reminds me of two episodes from the past few years.

One was an exercise message board discussion involving a widely known strength coach and an MD who was a competitive powerlifter. The strength coach put forth force vector stick figures to try to prove a point about efficient olympic lifting form. The MD said human physiology is highly complex and vector diagrams were too reductionist to be useful. A physicist who taught at MIT and who did olympic lifting pitched in and tried to translate the vector diagrams into something more realistic for human physiology. Sadly, the strength coach ran the message board and deleted the conversation when it was apparent he was not wining the discussion.

The other involved a close friend who had a severe hip pain issue. She saw an orthopedic surgeon who, when she described her weight training, told her that she should never deadlift or else risk permanent damage. Her coach suggested rack pulls and she's now doing rack pulls which are indistinguishable from deadlifts. Her hips and back are better than ever.

Excess stress is a bad idea, almost by definition. Progressive loading, with the goal of strengthening the relevant body parts to handle the stress, is often a good idea, so long as one starts with a weight that can be moved comfortably and one proceeds slowly and carefully.

Good luck!
As my physical therapist of over 20 years says:

1) Stay active.
2) I'll see you back, because it is only a matter of time that you'll be injured.
3) Don't lift heavy weights. Your body is not capable of that anymore.
4) Do exercises that lengthen the muscles.
3# - Wrong if your a man ! Lift heavy as can (safety) 2 to 3 days a week - it naturally peaks your testosterone. Study it, research the facts.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by tc101 »

I can't do a regular pushup any more. I'm 73 and have lost lots of muscle and strength. I do a modified pushup with my hands on a chair. I haven't figured out how to do a modified pull up. Any ideas?
. | The most important thing you should know about me is that I am not an expert.
majasan
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by majasan »

Try using bands for modified pull ups. There are youtube vids on this. Hope this helps.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by CFM300 »

tc101 wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:51 am I haven't figured out how to do a modified pull up. Any ideas?
Eccentric only - Use a box or chair to position yourself with chin over the bar and then lower yourself as slowly as possible.

Ring rows - Rings can be attached to a pull-up bar.

Australian rows - Make sure you're pulling the bar into the bracket.

Band-assisted - My least favorite.

* On the ring rows and Australian rows, the more upright your starting position, the easier the movement. The more horizontal, the more difficult. Adjust as you get stronger.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by halfnine »

majasan wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:54 am Try using bands for modified pull ups. There are youtube vids on this. Hope this helps.
There are some youtube vids showing some pretty funny failures as well.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by greenspam »

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/01/well ... ticleShare

NYT article from a few days ago about exercises for us old fogies 😎👍🏻
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tc101
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by tc101 »

Thanks for the pointers. I think I am going to get these ring rows from Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=ring+rows&sp ... -doa-p_2_8

I will get the "Amazon choice" for $33. From watching the video above it looks like you can modify the exercise for any strength level just by changing where your feet are on the floor.
. | The most important thing you should know about me is that I am not an expert.
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