The big difference is when you're trying to withdraw the money to another account outside vanguard. With VMFXX you transfer out before 4pm, the money is in the remote account by next morning. With VMRXX you have to sell first then transfer out the next day, so money shows up in remote account by the 2nd morning.billaster wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 1:15 pmThey are almost identical with almost identical holdings. VMFXX is the default brokerage settlement fund. VMRXX is a legacy fund which used to be the Vanguard Prime Money Market Fund but was converted from a prime fund to a government fund in 2020.
I'm not sure why Vanguard continues to maintain the two since they are so similar. There's one possibility I could think of. Vanguard allows one to exchange between any two mutual funds but not between the settlement fund and another fund. You have to buy and sell, not exchange, when using the settlement fund. However, you can exchange between VMRXX and any other fund. It still seems to be a very minor difference.
Vanguard Federal Money Market tops 5%
Re: Vanguard Federal Money Market tops 5%
(AGE minus 23%) Bonds | 5% REITs | Balance 80% US (75/25 TSM/SCV) + 20% International (80/20 Developed/Emerging)
Re: Vanguard Federal Money Market tops 5%
Thanks Folks. I will probably go with VFMXX. I also heard it is the only one allowing check writings...
I have to buy that in my brokerage account right? For some reasons I thought there will be a different money market fund account, sounds like I did not understood the concept well.
I have to buy that in my brokerage account right? For some reasons I thought there will be a different money market fund account, sounds like I did not understood the concept well.
Re: Vanguard Federal Money Market tops 5%
VFMXX is the default settlement account for Vanguard Brokerage Services.Yvy wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 3:18 pm Thanks Folks. I will probably go with VFMXX. I also heard it is the only one allowing check writings...
I have to buy that in my brokerage account right? For some reasons I thought there will be a different money market fund account, sounds like I did not understood the concept well.
not financial advice
Re: Vanguard Federal Money Market tops 5%
What's the advantage of holding cash in VMFXX vs something like USFR which is 100% treasuries (fully exempt from state/local taxes)?
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Re: Vanguard Federal Money Market tops 5%
Thanks I wasn't aware of that... I've got to check the fine printAlmstRtrd wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 5:03 amJust checked and the expense ration on FDRXX is 0.34%. So about 4.41% net of expenses. Not trying to correct what you wrote... just checking as both my wife & I use FDRXX at Fidelity.homebuyer6426 wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 12:42 pm Fidelity Government Cash Reserves FDRXX paying 4.75% at the moment as well.
43% Total Stock Market | 53% Consumer Staples | 4% Short Term Reserves
Re: Vanguard Federal Money Market tops 5%
The fidelity fund is paying 4.75%.AlmstRtrd wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 5:03 amJust checked and the expense ration on FDRXX is 0.34%. So about 4.41% net of expenses. Not trying to correct what you wrote... just checking as both my wife & I use FDRXX at Fidelity.homebuyer6426 wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 12:42 pm Fidelity Government Cash Reserves FDRXX paying 4.75% at the moment as well.
Money market yields are always quoted net of expenses. So there’s no need to subtract out the 0.34% again.
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Re: Vanguard Federal Money Market tops 5%
It's there now. VUSXX is currently 5.04%. Dividends are 100% from U.S. government obligations (0% tax for my state). In 2022 U.S. Government Obligations were 37.79% for VMFXX and 53% for VMRXX.WolfgangPauli wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2023 7:07 am Interesting development and not surprising. As a follow on question, I have been using VUSXX as my money fund. U.S. Government Obligations isn't at 5% yet but close enough.
However, should I be concerned that the "Daily Market Value" is now below $1.00. (It is $.9997) and I know that is 4 decimal points etc. however the last time we had a financial crisis the "breaking the buck" on MM funds was a big deal. I assume this is not a big deal and just a rounding error but would like some thoughts.
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Re: Vanguard Federal Money Market tops 5%
VUSXX is around 60% USGO so far this year. They are holding a large chunk of Reverse Repos that are not exempt from state taxes. VRMXX and VMFXX are running just over 40% USGO this year so far. All of these percentages will surely change by the end of the year.minesweep wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 4:56 pmIt's there now. VUSXX is currently 5.04%. Dividends are 100% from U.S. government obligations (0% tax for my state). In 2022 U.S. Government Obligations were 37.79% for VMFXX and 53% for VMRXX.WolfgangPauli wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2023 7:07 am Interesting development and not surprising. As a follow on question, I have been using VUSXX as my money fund. U.S. Government Obligations isn't at 5% yet but close enough.
However, should I be concerned that the "Daily Market Value" is now below $1.00. (It is $.9997) and I know that is 4 decimal points etc. however the last time we had a financial crisis the "breaking the buck" on MM funds was a big deal. I assume this is not a big deal and just a rounding error but would like some thoughts.
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Re: Vanguard Federal Money Market tops 5%
VUSXX prior year percentages of ordinary dividends from U.S. Government Obligations
2022 - 100%
2021 - 100%
2020 - 94.19%
2019 - 97.79%
2018 - 100%
2017 - 100%
2016 - 100%
2022 - 100%
2021 - 100%
2020 - 94.19%
2019 - 97.79%
2018 - 100%
2017 - 100%
2016 - 100%
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Re: Vanguard Federal Money Market tops 5%
2023
EDGAR Date Ticker Repos USGO Treasuries Total USGO
1/31/2023 VUSXX 23.20% 4.30% 72.40% 76.7%
2/28/2023 VUSXX 24.30% 4.10% 71.60% 71.6%
3/31/2023 VUSXX 41.50% 7.41% 51.09% 51.0%
4/30/2023 VUSXX 43.00% 2.42% 54.58% 54.58%
Asset Weighted Average YTD = 65.88%
EDGAR Date Ticker Repos USGO Treasuries Total USGO
1/31/2023 VUSXX 23.20% 4.30% 72.40% 76.7%
2/28/2023 VUSXX 24.30% 4.10% 71.60% 71.6%
3/31/2023 VUSXX 41.50% 7.41% 51.09% 51.0%
4/30/2023 VUSXX 43.00% 2.42% 54.58% 54.58%
Asset Weighted Average YTD = 65.88%
Re: Vanguard Federal Money Market tops 5%
VMRXX sell order proceeds arrive the next morning into bank accounts for orders placed before 4pm for me when I select “wire” as disbursement method.fetch5482 wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 1:49 pmThe big difference is when you're trying to withdraw the money to another account outside vanguard. With VMFXX you transfer out before 4pm, the money is in the remote account by next morning. With VMRXX you have to sell first then transfer out the next day, so money shows up in remote account by the 2nd morning.billaster wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 1:15 pmThey are almost identical with almost identical holdings. VMFXX is the default brokerage settlement fund. VMRXX is a legacy fund which used to be the Vanguard Prime Money Market Fund but was converted from a prime fund to a government fund in 2020.
I'm not sure why Vanguard continues to maintain the two since they are so similar. There's one possibility I could think of. Vanguard allows one to exchange between any two mutual funds but not between the settlement fund and another fund. You have to buy and sell, not exchange, when using the settlement fund. However, you can exchange between VMRXX and any other fund. It still seems to be a very minor difference.
Re: Vanguard Federal Money Market tops 5%
Okay so really it’s just slightly more liquid to hold the money market account due to funds being available in one vs two days? It’s my understanding the SEC sales charge is only $8 for every million dollars. Notable, but that difference really wouldn’t factor into my decision especially when assuring a full state/local tax exemption. Thanks for the info.
Re: Vanguard Federal Money Market tops 5%
That fee varies. It was recently $23 per $1M, but obviously still pretty small.Soobs wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:55 amOkay so really it’s just slightly more liquid to hold the money market account due to funds being available in one vs two days? It’s my understanding the SEC sales charge is only $8 for every million dollars. Notable, but that difference really wouldn’t factor into my decision especially when assuring a full state/local tax exemption. Thanks for the info.
It really boils down to being a bit more liquid. You've currently got a 2 day settlement before you can put in a separate transaction to get the money to your bank.
Re: Vanguard Federal Money Market tops 5%
Gotcha. Sounds like at the end of the day two great options for now, but I’ll certainly be watching the SEC fee. The only other thing I could come up with is the $1 money market price vs the ETF NAV, but that NAV has been incredibly stable with only negligible shifts.exodusNH wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 12:45 pmThat fee varies. It was recently $23 per $1M, but obviously still pretty small.Soobs wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:55 amOkay so really it’s just slightly more liquid to hold the money market account due to funds being available in one vs two days? It’s my understanding the SEC sales charge is only $8 for every million dollars. Notable, but that difference really wouldn’t factor into my decision especially when assuring a full state/local tax exemption. Thanks for the info.
It really boils down to being a bit more liquid. You've currently got a 2 day settlement before you can put in a separate transaction to get the money to your bank.
Re: Vanguard Federal Money Market tops 5%
Wait, USFR is an ETF, so subject to 3-day settlement. In other words, you need 4 days for the cash to show up in your bank account, not 2. If you use VMRXX or VUSXX or another mutual fund it'll be 2 days. VMFXX (settlement fund) is next day.Soobs wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:57 pmGotcha. Sounds like at the end of the day two great options for now, but I’ll certainly be watching the SEC fee. The only other thing I could come up with is the $1 money market price vs the ETF NAV, but that NAV has been incredibly stable with only negligible shifts.exodusNH wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 12:45 pmThat fee varies. It was recently $23 per $1M, but obviously still pretty small.Soobs wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:55 amOkay so really it’s just slightly more liquid to hold the money market account due to funds being available in one vs two days? It’s my understanding the SEC sales charge is only $8 for every million dollars. Notable, but that difference really wouldn’t factor into my decision especially when assuring a full state/local tax exemption. Thanks for the info.
It really boils down to being a bit more liquid. You've currently got a 2 day settlement before you can put in a separate transaction to get the money to your bank.
Also, unlike money market funds, USFR does not maintain a $1 balance, so there is a greater risk of losing part of the principal with USFR due to daily price fluctuations..
(AGE minus 23%) Bonds | 5% REITs | Balance 80% US (75/25 TSM/SCV) + 20% International (80/20 Developed/Emerging)
Re: Vanguard Federal Money Market tops 5%
Noted on the liquidity speeds. We already mentioned the difference in ETF price. It does fluctuate, but it has been negligible. A large fluctuation is a risk, but a low one to me. Again, after discussing this I think both are fine options. I don’t think there’s a wrong option. It just depends on the individual’s needs/preferences. The present 30-day SEC yield on USFR is 5.20%. Not bad!fetch5482 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:07 pmWait, USFR is an ETF, so subject to 3-day settlement. In other words, you need 4 days for the cash to show up in your bank account, not 2. If you use VMRXX or VUSXX or another mutual fund it'll be 2 days. VMFXX (settlement fund) is next day.Soobs wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:57 pmGotcha. Sounds like at the end of the day two great options for now, but I’ll certainly be watching the SEC fee. The only other thing I could come up with is the $1 money market price vs the ETF NAV, but that NAV has been incredibly stable with only negligible shifts.exodusNH wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 12:45 pmThat fee varies. It was recently $23 per $1M, but obviously still pretty small.Soobs wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:55 amOkay so really it’s just slightly more liquid to hold the money market account due to funds being available in one vs two days? It’s my understanding the SEC sales charge is only $8 for every million dollars. Notable, but that difference really wouldn’t factor into my decision especially when assuring a full state/local tax exemption. Thanks for the info.
It really boils down to being a bit more liquid. You've currently got a 2 day settlement before you can put in a separate transaction to get the money to your bank.
Also, unlike money market funds, USFR does not maintain a $1 balance, so there is a greater risk of losing part of the principal with USFR due to daily price fluctuations..
Re: Vanguard Federal Money Market tops 5%
Is that net of fees with ETFs? I know for MM funds the 7-day yields are always net of fees. I am not 100% sure if that is the case with ETFs as well. The ER on USFR is 0.15, which is not too bad either; but that gets is quite close to VUSXX for me.Soobs wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:44 pmNoted on the liquidity speeds. We already mentioned the difference in ETF price. It does fluctuate, but it has been negligible. A large fluctuation is a risk, but a low one to me. Again, after discussing this I think both are fine options. I don’t think there’s a wrong option. It just depends on the individual’s needs/preferences. The present 30-day SEC yield on USFR is 5.20%. Not bad!fetch5482 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:07 pmWait, USFR is an ETF, so subject to 3-day settlement. In other words, you need 4 days for the cash to show up in your bank account, not 2. If you use VMRXX or VUSXX or another mutual fund it'll be 2 days. VMFXX (settlement fund) is next day.Soobs wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:57 pmGotcha. Sounds like at the end of the day two great options for now, but I’ll certainly be watching the SEC fee. The only other thing I could come up with is the $1 money market price vs the ETF NAV, but that NAV has been incredibly stable with only negligible shifts.exodusNH wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 12:45 pmThat fee varies. It was recently $23 per $1M, but obviously still pretty small.Soobs wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:55 am
Okay so really it’s just slightly more liquid to hold the money market account due to funds being available in one vs two days? It’s my understanding the SEC sales charge is only $8 for every million dollars. Notable, but that difference really wouldn’t factor into my decision especially when assuring a full state/local tax exemption. Thanks for the info.
It really boils down to being a bit more liquid. You've currently got a 2 day settlement before you can put in a separate transaction to get the money to your bank.
Also, unlike money market funds, USFR does not maintain a $1 balance, so there is a greater risk of losing part of the principal with USFR due to daily price fluctuations..
(AGE minus 23%) Bonds | 5% REITs | Balance 80% US (75/25 TSM/SCV) + 20% International (80/20 Developed/Emerging)
Re: Vanguard Federal Money Market tops 5%
ETFs settle in 2 days. Some brokers like Fidelity will do same day ACH. They also do free wires. I could sell ETF on Monday, money settles Wednesday morning. Then get a same day ACH or wire to the bank on Wednesday and walk out with cash on Wednesday. Or I can do ATM withdrawal directly from Fidelity on Wednesday. SEC yield is always net of fees, including for ETFs.
Re: Vanguard Federal Money Market tops 5%
Yep, 5.2% net of fees. The difference vs. VUSXX is the tax-equivalent yield which will vary based on income and state. USFR is completely exempt from state/local taxes, but VUSXX is not at the moment. Stressing that “at the moment” part. I suspect it will be again in time.fetch5482 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:42 pmIs that net of fees with ETFs? I know for MM funds the 7-day yields are always net of fees. I am not 100% sure if that is the case with ETFs as well. The ER on USFR is 0.15, which is not too bad either; but that gets is quite close to VUSXX for me.Soobs wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:44 pmNoted on the liquidity speeds. We already mentioned the difference in ETF price. It does fluctuate, but it has been negligible. A large fluctuation is a risk, but a low one to me. Again, after discussing this I think both are fine options. I don’t think there’s a wrong option. It just depends on the individual’s needs/preferences. The present 30-day SEC yield on USFR is 5.20%. Not bad!fetch5482 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:07 pmWait, USFR is an ETF, so subject to 3-day settlement. In other words, you need 4 days for the cash to show up in your bank account, not 2. If you use VMRXX or VUSXX or another mutual fund it'll be 2 days. VMFXX (settlement fund) is next day.Soobs wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:57 pmGotcha. Sounds like at the end of the day two great options for now, but I’ll certainly be watching the SEC fee. The only other thing I could come up with is the $1 money market price vs the ETF NAV, but that NAV has been incredibly stable with only negligible shifts.
Also, unlike money market funds, USFR does not maintain a $1 balance, so there is a greater risk of losing part of the principal with USFR due to daily price fluctuations..
Re: Vanguard Federal Money Market tops 5%
Note that ETF/Stock settlement is expected to move to T+1 in May 2024.Soobs wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:57 pm Gotcha. Sounds like at the end of the day two great options for now, but I’ll certainly be watching the SEC fee. The only other thing I could come up with is the $1 money market price vs the ETF NAV, but that NAV has been incredibly stable with only negligible shifts.
I've been been using FDLXX (90%+ USGO) and FZDXX at Fidelity, since their MM funds can be automatically sold to cover debits.
I also keep some funds at Merrill Edge, with TTTXX (90%+ USGO) having same day settlement if sold before 1:45PM ET, or TFDXX before 5PM ET.
I sometimes hold T-Bills directly, buying at auction or the secondary market.
I'm keeping an eye on BOXX, since I assume they're trying to avoid any distributions, so all the appreciation could be taxed as capital gains. Haven't pulled the trigger yet, since I'm less certain about its tax implications and it has a short history.