Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

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saagar_is_cool
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Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by saagar_is_cool »

My manager told me confidentially that he got a new offer and is planning to leave. He said that he will recommend me as the replacement. He gave me a headsup to prepare my case. I worked hard over the past three years in turning around multiple projects that were in trouble and moved the needle significantly getting Exceeding ratings last 3 years. This got him good visibility in the MegaCorp. This has gotten me lot of visibility in the business and IT side, however there was a change in the leadership above my boss' level recently which lost me the visibility with new senior leadership. Also, I am the highest title / grade in his direct reports. While he has multiple reports, about 35% of his total reports to me.

Given this scenario, I want to make my case in the coming week. However I don't want to just pick up the additional responsibility without getting his title and the pay rise. How do I present my case to his management and campaign on the business side to get the role with immediate promotion. I do not want to take up the role with future promise of - prove yourself and then we will promote as I have seen others who never got promoted in more than 2 years and subsequently left. The financial component could be significant and impact the course of our investments and FIRE journey.

How do I present my case without sounding demanding. I have some leverage as both of us leaving in short time could derail the significant progress in the business unit. But, I want to play my hand carefully as I have seen in the past that being perceived too demanding also does not yield results. Any experiences and suggestions are much appreciated.
London
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by London »

Depending on your managers level, they may already have a known succession plan. If that’s you, great. If not, that would need to fall through for you to get a look. By all means let them know you’re interested, but it may not matter. In my experience running a large org, your perceived leverage is meaningless.
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saagar_is_cool
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by saagar_is_cool »

London wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:01 pm Depending on your managers level, they may already have a known succession plan. If that’s you, great. If not, that would need to fall through for you to get a look. By all means let them know you’re interested, but it may not matter. In my experience running a large org, your perceived leverage is meaningless.
Thank you, I agree with you that perceived leverage could be meaningless in the big scheme of things. My question is how do I let them know I am interested if they do not reach out to me. Should I proactively setup some time to make my case. Boss' boss is 2 levels below CEO of MegaCorp (due to other recent changes as mentioned), so getting his time is not that easy either.
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by KlangFool »

OP,

If the boss's boss does not know you before hand, how does reaching out now makes any difference? If they do not contact you, they are not interested in you as the replacement. Whether you are interested or not is irrelevant to them. If they posted the job, you can go ahead and apply. That will officially show that you are interested.

"Should I proactively setup some time to make my case"

Does that really help your case? That will show that you are desperate and you have no other alternative.

You want them may not matter if they do not want you. Make them want you is the key here.

Your boss had said that he will recommend you as the replacement. You should play it cool and monitor what happened next.

"Doing nothing" is the best course of action at the moment.

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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by invest2bfree »

saagar_is_cool wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:05 pm
London wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:01 pm Depending on your managers level, they may already have a known succession plan. If that’s you, great. If not, that would need to fall through for you to get a look. By all means let them know you’re interested, but it may not matter. In my experience running a large org, your perceived leverage is meaningless.
Thank you, I agree with you that perceived leverage could be meaningless in the big scheme of things. My question is how do I let them know I am interested if they do not reach out to me. Should I proactively setup some time to make my case. Boss' boss is 2 levels below CEO of MegaCorp (due to other recent changes as mentioned), so getting his time is not that easy either.
Send an detailed email making case that why you should be selected with a note that you will set a 30 minute meeting to discuss further.

If he accepts the invite then you have a chance, if he does not then you know where you stand.
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Watty
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by Watty »

One thing to have a good answer for is how they will be able to backfill your position if they give you a promotion.

I never worked in a high position in the corporate ladder but I have seen situations where people did not get promotions because finding someone to replace them would have been difficult or expensive.
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by invest2bfree »

KlangFool wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:13 pm

Does that really help your case? That will show that you are desperate and you have no other alternative.

"Doing nothing" is the best course of action at the moment.
I disagree, taking initiative is not bad and mostly shows you are ambitious and want to advance.
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jaqenhghar
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by jaqenhghar »

Curious to hear the responses of more seasoned BHs. In my experience, management knows who they want, so what a person who wants the job does (or doesn't do) rarely moves the needle.
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by invest2bfree »

Watty wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:16 pm One thing to have a good answer for is how they will be able to backfill your position if they give you a promotion.

I never worked in a high position in the corporate ladder but I have seen situations where people did not get promotions because finding someone to replace them would have been difficult or expensive.
Very good point.

When someone specialized with technical skills wants to move up then how to backfill is a major issue.

I manage a team of 20 IT professionals and I was in discussion to be promoted to be my business unit leader. I did not get the role and a non technical person was selected. I suspect the reason would have been that it would be risky to back-fill my role.
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saagar_is_cool
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by saagar_is_cool »

invest2bfree wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:26 pm
Watty wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:16 pm One thing to have a good answer for is how they will be able to backfill your position if they give you a promotion.

I never worked in a high position in the corporate ladder but I have seen situations where people did not get promotions because finding someone to replace them would have been difficult or expensive.
Very good point.

When someone specialized with technical skills wants to move up then how to backfill is a major issue.

I manage a team of 20 IT professionals and I was in discussion to be promoted to be my business unit leader. I did not get the role and a non technical person was selected. I suspect the reason would have been that it would be risky to back-fill my role.
How did you handle not being selected. One of my major concerns is that I throw my hat in the ring and subtly convey that I will leave if I am not selected, but then if they pick someone else, I need to be ready to leave. This feels like an unfortunate gamble. I am thinking of starting to brush my Resume for this outcome.
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saagar_is_cool
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by saagar_is_cool »

Watty wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:16 pm One thing to have a good answer for is how they will be able to backfill your position if they give you a promotion.

I never worked in a high position in the corporate ladder but I have seen situations where people did not get promotions because finding someone to replace them would have been difficult or expensive.
Thank you, that is a good point. I am in a leadership role currently, so I can backfill with someone else or internally promote / consolidate. I am not an individual contributor currently.
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by av111 »

saagar_is_cool wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:38 pm
invest2bfree wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:26 pm
Watty wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:16 pm One thing to have a good answer for is how they will be able to backfill your position if they give you a promotion.

I never worked in a high position in the corporate ladder but I have seen situations where people did not get promotions because finding someone to replace them would have been difficult or expensive.
Very good point.

When someone specialized with technical skills wants to move up then how to backfill is a major issue.

I manage a team of 20 IT professionals and I was in discussion to be promoted to be my business unit leader. I did not get the role and a non technical person was selected. I suspect the reason would have been that it would be risky to back-fill my role.
How did you handle not being selected. One of my major concerns is that I throw my hat in the ring and subtly convey that I will leave if I am not selected, but then if they pick someone else, I need to be ready to leave. This feels like an unfortunate gamble. I am thinking of starting to brush my Resume for this outcome.
OP

In my opinion, did your boss has not given notice? If not, I would try to get the attention like appear in meetings where big bosses come, spearhead some initiative etc. But I would not overtly ask for the position. Your boss may decide to stay after all

If however notice is sent and I am the logical choice, I am probably already being called into a few knowledge transfer meetings. If I am not being asked, nothing I say will change their mind. So say nothing

Oh leaving the job is a decision that should take different inputs. If I am happy with the current situation, I would not leave until something better shows up or situation worsens under the new boss
AV111
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by HomeStretch »

saagar_is_cool wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:38 pm … One of my major concerns is that I throw my hat in the ring and subtly convey that I will leave if I am not selected …
Don’t. No offense but people who do this are never as subtle as they think they are. If I caught even a whiff of this from someone making a case for a promotion to me, I would pass them over. A portion of people up for a promotion tend to
leave if they don’t get it. Management understands that risk.

Best of luck.
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by Beensabu »

saagar_is_cool wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:54 pm My manager ... said that he will recommend me as the replacement.
Then they'll reach out to you if they want you to fill the role.
He gave me a headsup to prepare my case.
Did he say "to prepare your case"?

It was a headsup to get your comp asks in order, identify your replacement / have a plan to backfill their role, and prep for negotiation.
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by invest2bfree »

saagar_is_cool wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:38 pm I throw my hat in the ring and subtly convey that I will leave if I am not selected, but then if they pick someone else, I need to be ready to leave.
No dont convey anything.

Just tell them that you have no intention of quitting and just want to be given a chance.
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by trustquestioner »

“Promote me or I’ll quit” almost never works.

All you can do is make your case in a professional way then test the market if you’re passed over.
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by saagar_is_cool »

HomeStretch wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 5:10 pm
saagar_is_cool wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:38 pm … One of my major concerns is that I throw my hat in the ring and subtly convey that I will leave if I am not selected …
Don’t. No offense but people who do this are never as subtle as they think they are. If I caught even a whiff of this from someone making a case for a promotion to me, I would pass them over. A portion of people up for a promotion tend to
leave if they don’t get it. Management understands that risk.

Best of luck.
Thank you for the reality check. While I personally do not like this thought process that someone making a case and being candid will be passed over, I understand that that's the reality. Personally, if one of my reports do that with me, and I consider them valuable employees, then I have gotten them the promotion in the past. I do not pass over just because someone showed the ambition. But I do get it that not all people think alike, and the risk is not worth it.
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saagar_is_cool
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by saagar_is_cool »

invest2bfree wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:16 pm
saagar_is_cool wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:38 pm I throw my hat in the ring and subtly convey that I will leave if I am not selected, but then if they pick someone else, I need to be ready to leave.
No dont convey anything.

Just tell them that you have no intention of quitting and just want to be given a chance.
Thank you, I will wait for them to reach out and convey this message that I would like to be considered.
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saagar_is_cool
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by saagar_is_cool »

trustquestioner wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:26 pm “Promote me or I’ll quit” almost never works.

All you can do is make your case in a professional way then test the market if you’re passed over.
Thanks for the reality check. It is good to get these feedback as it is easy to get carried away. Based on the feedback, I am siding with waiting for them to reach out to me, and make the case in a professional way. If I am ignored, then refresh my Resume and start looking.
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by Normchad »

Honestly, in your shoes, I’d write something up for your curent boss. Make is EASY for them to make a convincing case that you’re the only logical choice.

Include bullets of all that you’ve helped your boss accomplish. Include bullets of all your contributions and knowledge of operations. Talk about how seamless and easy it would be if you just took the job. And include that it’s a promotion, basically just plugging you into that slot, and adjusting the compensation to reflect not only your new role and responsibilities, but your eagerness to step up to ensure continuity.

When your boss gives notice that they’re resigning, they should have this as part of the same conversation. “Hey, I’m leaving. I love you guys and don’t want to leave you in the lurch, so,I prepared a complete transition plan to make everything smooth. Person XYZ should backfill me because…..”. This way your boss looks like a hero too……

Then when they come to talk to you, you’ll reiterate all the same points. And they will all be so overcome by the joys of corporate synergy, all they can do is say yes.
Last edited by Normchad on Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by MarkRoulo »

trustquestioner wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:26 pm “Promote me or I’ll quit” almost never works.

All you can do is make your case in a professional way then test the market if you’re passed over.
I have not managed my career as carefully as many (probably most) here, but is there is a good reason to NOT begin testing the market now? Update the resume and start looking for a job while in parallel trying to get the internal promotion?
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by saagar_is_cool »

Normchad wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:44 pm Honestly, in your shoes, I’d write something up for your curent boss. Make is EASY for them to make a convincing case that you’re the only logical choice.

Include bullets of all that you’ve helped your boss accomplish. Include bullets of all your contributions and knowledge of operations. Talk about how seamless and easy it would be if you just took the job. And include that it’s a promotion, basically just plugging you into that slot, and adjusting the compensation to reflect not only your new role and responsibilities, but your eagerness to step up to ensure continuity.

When your boss gives notice that they’re resigning, they should have this as part of the same conversation. “Hey, I’m leaving. I love you guys and don’t want to leave you in the lurch, so,I prepared a complete transition plan to make everything smooth. Person XYZ should backfill me because…..”. This way your boss looks like a hero too……

Then when they come to talk to you, you’ll reiterate all the same points. And they will all be so overcome by the joys of corporate synergy, all they can do is say yes.
Thank you, this would be the best outcome given the variables in the situation. I like your idea of making it easy for them and to do a write-up for current boss. I will implement this.
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by snackdog »

Before anything else, are you 100% certain you want your boss' job? Is it a good job or just a pain in the neck? Be careful what you ask for...

They may have you as their only choice, so you may have some leverage. Ask your current boss if there is anything horrible about the job which could be negotiated away (e.g. pass on some terrible scope to another manager).
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by funxional »

MarkRoulo wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:59 pm
trustquestioner wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:26 pm “Promote me or I’ll quit” almost never works.

All you can do is make your case in a professional way then test the market if you’re passed over.
I have not managed my career as carefully as many (probably most) here, but is there is a good reason to NOT begin testing the market now? Update the resume and start looking for a job while in parallel trying to get the internal promotion?
You should always have a toe in the market (except perhaps the first year in a position). Keeps your resume current, keeps your interviewing skills current and keeps you aware of trends in roles, skills, and salaries. It also can help you see if your dream position comes available rather than hoping it coincides with a planned career move.
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by deikel »

Why do you not ask your boss what they meant with 'prepare your case' ?

And then the much more important questions, why do they leave ? You mention a change in their boss - maybe that is not even a person you would want to work with ?

If your last three reviews were exceeding, if your boss has you marked for succession, I don't think there is much you can do more then that, you already showed that you want to do more and help the company. If the bosses' boss is interested, he will find a way to talk to you and if not (or if they want to bring in their own person from wherever they came) you are better off not being too exposed.

It's also possible your boss wants to get out asap and uses you as the replacement suggestion to smooth his exit over...if someone asks make it clear that if you do the work, you get the promotion and you are not available for a temporary fill in....that's never a win.
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by Jags4186 »

KlangFool wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:13 pm OP,

If the boss's boss does not know you before hand, how does reaching out now makes any difference? If they do not contact you, they are not interested in you as the replacement. Whether you are interested or not is irrelevant to them. If they posted the job, you can go ahead and apply. That will officially show that you are interested.

"Should I proactively setup some time to make my case"

Does that really help your case? That will show that you are desperate and you have no other alternative.

You want them may not matter if they do not want you. Make them want you is the key here.

Your boss had said that he will recommend you as the replacement. You should play it cool and monitor what happened next.

"Doing nothing" is the best course of action at the moment.

KlangFool
I'm going to really disagree with this assessment. OP should absolutely make it known he wants that job the second it is public that the boss is leaving. Companies do not necessarily know what their employees want. And senior level roles are frequently filled by known commodities -- either former colleagues of hiring team or internal promotions. Companies frequently post jobs because of policy with zero intention of hiring who applies through the career portal because they've already filled the position. If OP waits for the job to be posted it could already be gone.

Of course, this doesn't mean the OP will get the role, or even is qualified for the role, but it shows that he wants more then he currently has. Sometimes just having that information out there is best for your career.
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by FrugalFed »

snackdog wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:24 am Before anything else, are you 100% certain you want your boss' job? Is it a good job or just a pain in the neck? Be careful what you ask for...
Co-sign this. Be sure you want to be a manager first. There are multiple threads on BH from people who've "been there, done that" and wish they hadn't "done that."
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by investnoob »

Before doing anything, you should really confirm that your manager has actually given notice yet. When he told you in confidence, did he tell you he gave notice to his boss?
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by goblue100 »

I would think they already have an opinion on whether you can be the replacement or not. If you've put in the work they should consider you
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by NabSh »

Every leadership level has a succession plan. Those who have worked in senior leadership level know that.

While I have heard rumors that “I did not get promoted because there was no backfill for me”. I’m not aware of actual situations.

If your boss has said that he will recommend you, then trust him. Let them make the offer the role or ask you to take the responsibility without a promotion. If it’s responsibilities without a promotion, then you can ask for a promotion.

Do not ever say if you don’t promote me I will leave. Let your boss figure out that you can (indirectly).
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by tonyclifton »

Your departing boss is your best advocate. Ask them what to do next.
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by dcabler »

London wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:01 pm Depending on your managers level, they may already have a known succession plan. If that’s you, great. If not, that would need to fall through for you to get a look. By all means let them know you’re interested, but it may not matter. In my experience running a large org, your perceived leverage is meaningless.
As a manager, I've had to put together succession plans for myself several times over the years.. I have also been named the successor for my boss as part of his succession plan a couple of times.

In each and every case, this was nothing more than an HR exercise because when the time came for a replacement to succeed the individual, a full interview process with both internal and external candidates occurred. In exactly zero cases was the named successor actually the individual who got the job.

YMMV.

Cheers.
Last edited by dcabler on Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by KlangFool »

tonyclifton wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 3:49 am Your departing boss is your best advocate. Ask them what to do next.
The departing boss has zero leverage.

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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by dcabler »

KlangFool wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:55 am
tonyclifton wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 3:49 am Your departing boss is your best advocate. Ask them what to do next.
The departing boss has zero leverage.

KlangFool
A blanket statement that isn't necessarily true. I am leaving on Friday of this week. I had almost full leverage to find my replacement. And I did.
The details surrounding the boss's departure matter.

Cheers
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by KlangFool »

dcabler wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:57 am
KlangFool wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:55 am
tonyclifton wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 3:49 am Your departing boss is your best advocate. Ask them what to do next.
The departing boss has zero leverage.

KlangFool
A blanket statement that isn't necessarily true. I am leaving on Friday of this week. I had almost full leverage to find my replacement. And I did.
The details surrounding the boss's departure matter.

Cheers
Context matters. In your case, you have leverage is probably something out of the ordinary.

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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by chassis »

saagar_is_cool wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:54 pm My manager told me confidentially that he got a new offer and is planning to leave. He said that he will recommend me as the replacement. He gave me a headsup to prepare my case. I worked hard over the past three years in turning around multiple projects that were in trouble and moved the needle significantly getting Exceeding ratings last 3 years. This got him good visibility in the MegaCorp. This has gotten me lot of visibility in the business and IT side, however there was a change in the leadership above my boss' level recently which lost me the visibility with new senior leadership. Also, I am the highest title / grade in his direct reports. While he has multiple reports, about 35% of his total reports to me.

Given this scenario, I want to make my case in the coming week. However I don't want to just pick up the additional responsibility without getting his title and the pay rise. How do I present my case to his management and campaign on the business side to get the role with immediate promotion. I do not want to take up the role with future promise of - prove yourself and then we will promote as I have seen others who never got promoted in more than 2 years and subsequently left. The financial component could be significant and impact the course of our investments and FIRE journey.

How do I present my case without sounding demanding. I have some leverage as both of us leaving in short time could derail the significant progress in the business unit. But, I want to play my hand carefully as I have seen in the past that being perceived too demanding also does not yield results. Any experiences and suggestions are much appreciated.
Walk to your boss’ boss’ office and tell him/her with a smile you want to express interest in replacing your boss. Let him/her take the next step.
dcabler
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by dcabler »

KlangFool wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 6:00 am
dcabler wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:57 am
KlangFool wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:55 am
tonyclifton wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 3:49 am Your departing boss is your best advocate. Ask them what to do next.
The departing boss has zero leverage.

KlangFool
A blanket statement that isn't necessarily true. I am leaving on Friday of this week. I had almost full leverage to find my replacement. And I did.
The details surrounding the boss's departure matter.

Cheers
Context matters. In your case, you have leverage is probably something out of the ordinary.

KlangFool
Having a very good working relationship with your own boss never hurts...
tonyclifton
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by tonyclifton »

KlangFool wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:55 am
tonyclifton wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 3:49 am Your departing boss is your best advocate. Ask them what to do next.
The departing boss has zero leverage.

KlangFool
Unless they were not well liked. If they were well liked or a good performer, they have plenty of connections at work and could have been grooming a replacement. Plus they will know the lay of the land. All this is valuable for someone wanting to get a promotion.
KlangFool
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by KlangFool »

tonyclifton wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:49 pm
KlangFool wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:55 am
tonyclifton wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 3:49 am Your departing boss is your best advocate. Ask them what to do next.
The departing boss has zero leverage.

KlangFool
Unless they were not well liked. If they were well liked or a good performer, they have plenty of connections at work and could have been grooming a replacement. Plus they will know the lay of the land. All this is valuable for someone wanting to get a promotion.
tonyclifton,

"It depends"

There are corporate culture where someone left, the person is usually leave for another competitor and they are considered as traitors. Hence, whoever that the person left recommended will be look upon negatively.

There are even corporate policy that prevent boomerang. Aka, if someone leave, they could never come back again. Meanwhile, some companies like boomerang. Folks that left are welcome back with an open arm.

In summary, OP should think carefully about his corporate culture.

KlangFool
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LotsaGray
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by LotsaGray »

KlangFool wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:55 am
tonyclifton wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 3:49 am Your departing boss is your best advocate. Ask them what to do next.
The departing boss has zero leverage.

KlangFool
Whether the incumbent has any leverage or not in the selection, he might have incredible insight that OP would find invaluable.
LotsaGray
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by LotsaGray »

Jags4186 wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:47 pm
KlangFool wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:13 pm OP,

If the boss's boss does not know you before hand, how does reaching out now makes any difference? If they do not contact you, they are not interested in you as the replacement. Whether you are interested or not is irrelevant to them. If they posted the job, you can go ahead and apply. That will officially show that you are interested.

"Should I proactively setup some time to make my case"

Does that really help your case? That will show that you are desperate and you have no other alternative.

You want them may not matter if they do not want you. Make them want you is the key here.

Your boss had said that he will recommend you as the replacement. You should play it cool and monitor what happened next.

"Doing nothing" is the best course of action at the moment.

KlangFool
I'm going to really disagree with this assessment. OP should absolutely make it known he wants that job the second it is public that the boss is leaving. Companies do not necessarily know what their employees want. And senior level roles are frequently filled by known commodities -- either former colleagues of hiring team or internal promotions. Companies frequently post jobs because of policy with zero intention of hiring who applies through the career portal because they've already filled the position. If OP waits for the job to be posted it could already be gone.

Of course, this doesn't mean the OP will get the role, or even is qualified for the role, but it shows that he wants more then he currently has. Sometimes just having that information out there is best for your career.
I would not wait for it to be public. I would ask boss if he has already told his boss. If not, please let me know when you do so I can approach him. Basically, once boss has made it official I am going to let the bigger know my interest.

Note that depending on some specifics not known, elevating a report into the boss report can be seen as a big no no. It also can be a very difficult thing to make work.
veindoc
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by veindoc »

That an interesting conundrum. I had a similar situation. Manager/boss was leaving. Had been advocating for me to get a promotion, but was told it was not the right time. He left before “the right time” came. His replacement was hired and I essentially reached out to her to say “congratulations and let me know if I can be of any service.” I got the promotion soon after in part by the good word my manager had put in for me. When I got my promotion, a few people reached out to me to congratulate me and also to tell me to reach out if they could be of service to me.

What I have learned from that experience. I think they probably do have some replacements in mind already. I did not work long enough with the new manager to audition for the promotion. What she knew of me was from the prior manager. I think it helps if your manager puts a word in for you. But I would drop an email stating your intent to be of service if need be to whomever does the hiring. When people reached out to me it put them in my line of sight when they otherwise would not have been.
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saagar_is_cool
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by saagar_is_cool »

Thanks all for all the replies. I am reading each one of them to get different viewpoints.

Current state and thoughts: I met with my current manager and asked him to let me know when he gives notice. I plan to express my interest to his boss and leave it at that without any subtle hints of leaving if I don’t get it. I will drop the thought of campaigning for the role through business counterparts and other “influencers”. If they select someone from outside or a peer of my current manager, I will bite the bullet and comtinue and explore the market. If something opens up outside, will move on, if not, continue in current role.

To one of the questions someone asked, my manager is leaving due to getting an offer that is a significant pay increase for him.
Barsoom
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by Barsoom »

saagar_is_cool wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:54 pmHow do I present my case to his management and campaign on the business side to get the role with immediate promotion.
Depth and Breadth.

You have to show that you have the depth of business knowledge, but as you rise in management you have to also have breadth across the organization. There was a book that was popular in the 1990s called "Improving Performance: Managing the White Space" that talked of how business processes moved horizontally through the various vertical organizational structures of a company's value chain. It is essential to have breadth of knowledge across the business processes and the people who manage predecessor and successor processes in the other related organizations. That is the domain of senior management, working with their counterparts across the organizational hierarchies.

You have to show that you have the contacts to be able to fill the role and coordinate with the leaders of other organizations to deliver on the business goals of your own organization.

-B
Topic Author
saagar_is_cool
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by saagar_is_cool »

Another update - He gave his notice, they might try to retain him which will be a good outcome. I will wait for my boss’ boss to reach out if he is interested. I wrote down what I will say.
randybobandy
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by randybobandy »

Appreciate the update. Hope all goes well.

--Randy Bo Bandy
Grammar and spelling matter. | Quoting the OP isn't a necessity.
an_asker
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by an_asker »

KlangFool wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:58 pm
tonyclifton wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:49 pm
KlangFool wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:55 am
tonyclifton wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 3:49 am Your departing boss is your best advocate. Ask them what to do next.
The departing boss has zero leverage.

KlangFool
Unless they were not well liked. If they were well liked or a good performer, they have plenty of connections at work and could have been grooming a replacement. Plus they will know the lay of the land. All this is valuable for someone wanting to get a promotion.
tonyclifton,

"It depends"

[...]
In summary, OP should think carefully about his corporate culture.

KlangFool
KlangFool:

If "it depends" then "ZERO" is not the correct answer.
Topic Author
saagar_is_cool
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Re: Manager leaving - How to convince boss' boss and others that I am the right replacement

Post by saagar_is_cool »

Another update. I reached out to boss' boss, blocked some time and gave my perspective. He listened and mentioned that he plans to bring in someone Senior internally or externally and will plan out a career path for me. Overall, it was a pleasant conversation. I might stay put for some time and see how things unfold in the next few months. I think time gives some perspective. I realized that nothing actually changed from 2 weeks ago to now other than a potentially new manager. I hope something comes out of it, visibility, drive to go up, a pay rise in lieu of promotion etc. out of this, but not expecting much at this point.

Thank you for all the perspectives and reality check. All of them reflected in some form or another in my approach and discussion.
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